Arugmentation (Was: Re: [PLUG-TALK] Fair Use, etc.)

Russ Johnson russj at dimstar.net
Tue Apr 2 23:15:18 UTC 2002


At 02:27 PM 4/2/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>So Legal Tender is an offer to pay;  not payment in itself.
>
>How can you pay a debt with a promise to pay (Federal Reserve Note) ?
>
>The answer is,  you cannot.

It's not MY promise to pay. It's the Federal Govmts promise to pay. I'm not 
paying an IOU with MY IOU, I'm giving them an IOU from the entity that 
controls the money supply.

>That is a problem.  Why,  do you think, they changed the words on the notes?

Because they went off the gold standard.

When we were on the gold standard, the money supply with finite. We 
couldn't have more silver certificates or gold bonds than there was gold 
and silver in the Federal Reserve. The economy was a zero sum problem at 
that time. You couldn't get a dollar without depriving someone else of that 
dollar. i.e. If Bill Gates has a Billion Dollars, then someone else (or a 
lot of someone elses) don't have that money.

When we went off the gold standard, it became possible for one individual 
to make money that didn't deprive anyone else of making money. Bill can 
have his money, but the fact that he has it doesn't mean I can't make my 
own billion dollars too.

>They used to be inscribed with "Lawful Monry" and the words were replaced 
>with "Legal Tender".

They also used to claim to be redeemable in silver or gold. Now they aren't

The sky isn't falling Chicken Little. My Grandfather used to think the same 
way.

>Since no one seems to understand the significance of not being able to pay 
>off a debt with a note that says the US Govt promises to pay the federal 
>reserve a dollar, let me try to explain it:

I understand it just fine.

>The land you paid off with notes is not yours,  even after you "pay" for 
>it.  It is owed to the federal reserve; the federal reserve is in 
>receivership of all items paid for with FRN's (federal reserve notes)

I don't see how this is different from before going off the gold standard. 
People still paid property taxes and other taxes to pay for government 
programs.

>This is one of the reasons you need permission to build on your own land.

I think that's false logic.

>Another troublesome problem is that you can pay off a note with a note;  I 
>have said this before and I say it again.
>
>People have taken an IOU to the bank and paid off their home loans with 
>it;  it is "like kind of money" and fully legal to do.  The fiat money 
>scam only works for the banks when you don't know your rights.

So me the money. Please provide a validated link to an example of this. If 
it's out there, you should have no problem proving your point. I'm not 
going to prove it for you.

>This is one BIG reason that money is gold; it has intrinsic value;  all 
>other arguments about gold aside;  it has been the most widely received 
>and successful money in use throughout history and has performed quite 
>well in this regard.

Except where they used beads, or rocks, or feathers. Then there were the 
really backward people who used chickens and cows.

>People arguing with me about convenience or what use gold is  to them, are 
>missing the entire point- it is not a fiat currency and it is not owed to 
>the federal reserve private bank- the point I try to drive home is 
>INFLATION is what is ILLEGAL for the govt to force upon us by privatizing 
>the money system and BORROWING it's OWN money from PRIVATE trusts.

If the Federal Reserve issues a silver certificate, and you pay a debt with 
a silver certificate, guess who is owed... THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK.


>JFK was the last President to print US notes;  yes they can use paper as 
>LONG AS it is REDEEMABLE.

Why does the 1996 $20 dollar note in my pocket say, "This *note* is legal 
tender for all debts, public and private" if it's not a note?

>He was killed for doing that and they printed the new one dollar bills 
>with his picture on them and released them on the anniversary of his murder.

That's a conspiracy theory. Show us proof of these "Kennedy Dollar bills".

>Abe Lincoln was the only other one who printed US notes,  he was killed as 
>well.

Huh? You're losing me. What does this have to do with anything?

>97% of our money is currently CREDITS on a COMPUTER.
>
>In the case of a natural disaster we lose our banking system.

You think they don't have it backed up on paper? Bet me. I've known too 
many people that were part of the banking system to lose that one.

>DOes anyone understand the mess it would create if we all paid off our 
>IOU's with IOU's?

If I paid it with an IOU that I wrote, yes. I'm not. I'm paying with an IOU 
from the feds.

>I do not provide a lot of cites because this is all PUBLIC RECORD.  This 
>is not "my belief" or "opinion" it is objective fact.

Then it should be easy to prove your case. Do so.

>See my other post for a cite from 
>http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/USbankrupt.htm

I read part of that. The government has been going broke each year for over 
200 years.


Russ Johnson
http://www.dimstar.net


A hen is an egg's way of making another egg






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