[PLUG-TALK] Re: [PLUG] PLUG meeting

Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net
Sat Dec 7 07:39:14 UTC 2002


On 6 Dec 2002, Brent Rieck wrote:
> On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 21:01, Jeme A Brelin wrote:
> > I don't have it wrong.  You're more interested in giving your own children
> > a good education than improving education for everyone generally.  It was
> > a selfish, anti-community move.
> 
> Jeme, you are so right, what a selfish bastard!  He probably pays his
> rent or mortgage and buys groceries for his family before giving to
> charity and running a weekly neighborhood barbecue too.  Of all the
> selfish, anti-community NERVE!

That's not exactly what I meant.

The point was that he wanted the best education he could get WITHOUT
getting involved in the actual education process.

He could have the time and energy to get involved in the school board and
such if he lived close enough to work and didn't have to commute.  And the
benefit would be greater than just finding some convenient place to live
that already had schools that were "good enough".

> > If you MUST commute that far, that's a pretty decent rate.  Much cheaper
> > than a car, all tolled.
> 
> And you're taking into account the massive rail subsidies and
> historical land grants?  Right?

There's a difference between public money spent for public gain and public
money spent for private gain.  I'm not too happy with the privatized rail
systems, but since they're not actually profitting, there's no real reason
to complain (except that the workers aren't getting civil service pensions
-- hopefully their unions are strong).

And just about ANY one-time cost is likely less than the inestimable
ongoing cost of dealing with air pollution, watershed destruction, and
community devestation both here and abroad due to both the actions of the
oil companies and motor vehicle manufacturers and car culture itself.

> I'd almost forgotten that you hold convenience in contempt, thanks for
> reminding me.  Yes, right now even the carless help pay for the people
> that drive cars and I think that's bad, blah blah blah - but it's
> undeniable that a car is vastly more convenient, comfortable, and
> timely for most people.

Well, it's convenient, comfortable, and timely to do all kinds of
destructive, evil things.

> Even if cars paid their true costs through an appropriate gas tax,
> their capabilities still vastly exceed the convenience, comfort and
> timeliness of our current public transportation system.

But nobody could afford them except the ultra-rich (say, top 1%).  And I'm
not even sure how you'd relay all those costs back to the drivers.

> A few more people would ride the bus however - as they could no longer
> afford their cars - but they'd be the less "economically advantaged"
> people.

Oh, it's a heck of a lot more than a few.  Simply removing the road
maintenance subsidies from the general fund would mean a gas tax of
approximately $3 per gallon.  That doesn't even begin to address
pollution, parking lot subsidies, or the myriad other costs to society
(monetary and otherwise).

> I'm sure they'd love chatting with their new busmates about the
> pleasure they get getting up an hour earlier just to get to work on
> the bus.

They'd get to work pretty freakin' quick without all that congestion.

And we would hopefully see the error of having all these big highways when
a couple of rail lines would move more people with less maintenance cost.

> Yes they could move closer to work to get a better bus commute, if
> they work in a neighborhood that they can afford.

Housing costs are also related to the proliferation of automobiles (though
they're even more influenced by rampant usury).  You couldn't get people
to work in your neighborhood unless you had reasonable housing within a
reasonable difference.

Just take a look at what's happening in Aspen, CO and similar areas.  The
people who work there cannot afford to live there, so housing is being
constructed by non-profit organizations to keep the costs low enough to
actually provide services within the city.

J.
-- 
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     Jeme A Brelin
    jeme at brelin.net
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