[PLUG-TALK] Re: [PLUG] Sounds good to me ;)
J Henshaw
jeff at jhenshaw.com
Tue Jun 18 18:14:46 UTC 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miller, Jeremy" <JMILLER at ci.albany.or.us>
To: <plug-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 12:26 AM
Subject: RE: [PLUG-TALK] Re: [PLUG] Sounds good to me ;)
> > > ... or have been skirted while addressing the trivial bits.
> > It's somewhat
> > > ironic to accuse others of misdirection while doing a good job of it
> > > yourself. :)
> > >
> > >
> > Here, you lose me. Because I have asked the most piercing and direct
> > questions, and none answered in two days.
>
> Yes, you have. But you've also skipped some direct questions yourself.
Not
> that it's really a big deal... this conversation isn't the only thing
people
> do with their lives and you may choose to skip them, for any reason.
> Probably lack of time. Or other parts of the conversation interest them
> more. It's OK to point something out (by repeating it, probably) again if
> you really want it answered, and might get an answer quicker than just a
cry
> of "foul".
>
> I'm sure I've committed a few myself... no harm done.
>
>
> But anyway, since you are repeating them... I'm game.
>
> > Quesitions like can a person delegate more authority than he
> > has,
>
> Should they? No. Can they attempt to, and maybe get away with it if it
> isn't noticed? Yes. By misleading others to believe that he has more
> authority than they really do. If no one catches on in time, he has
> functionally succeeded.
>
> > and can
> > his delegate have more authority than the person he serves?
>
> Should they? No. Can they? Yes, as a result of a deception as described
> above. Although it probably wasn't a smart move by the delegator. :)
>
>
> > Questions like, can a country attack itself?
>
> No.
>
> However, a country can split into multiple peices. (Whether any piece
> recognizes any other other as a seperate entity is another issue...
probably
> to be decided by war.) They resulting pieces are fairly likely to attack
> each other. One might consider not referring to the former country as a
> "country"... and simply call it an unstable region or "former countryname"
> until things settle down. Unless you choose to recognize one or more of
> them, of course.
>
> One might call the situation tribal warfare... depending on how the split
> happened and what your definition of tribe is.
>
>
> > The reason no one connects the dots is because they don't answer the
> > questions I ask as steeping stones toward understanding.
> >
>
> In that case, you could try to tell them that this is what you are trying
to
> do, and repeat the question.
>
> Funny thing is... I do that exact same thing all the time. In my
experience
> it tends to work better if you don't present it simply as "stepping stones
> toward understanding". It comes across as condescending, and can really
> turn people off. It makes it sound like "understanding" is a state of
> belief that is exactly equal to your belief, and there is only one road to
> get there. (Neither of which is true. Understanding equals comprehension
> of what you mean and why.) A lot of people really hate that.
>
> I do something like this: "I'm asking questions in order to show you what
I
> think/believe, and to show a logical path on how I got there. Can you
> follow along, so as to better understand my point?" Trust me, it works...
> as long as you don't get upset and start arguing over every single little
> point that they disagree with (there probably will be some) as you go
along.
> Doing that always seems to decend into an eternal argument. For those,
say
> "OK, we'll get back to that in a bit... I think foo, and you think fee.
But
> considering foo, here is my next question" or something like that.
>
> Basically, don't use the stepping stones as a club when someone doesn't
want
> to step on the next one. Skip over it, and be clear that you are skipping
> over it. They may change their mind later, once they figure out where you
> are going. Suprisingly, they often do. They at least get a good idea of
> where you are coming from and why, even if they decide to disagree in the
> end.
>
It's like Algebra. You CAN'T skip any stones
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