[PLUG-TALK] Re: Inflation Sounds good to me ;)
Jeme A Brelin
jeme at brelin.net
Mon Jun 24 00:02:20 UTC 2002
On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, Russ Johnson wrote:
> > So you don't think it's a problem that our society fails to provide a
> > living wage for those upon whom its operation depends? That shouldn't be
> > a goal?
>
> I don't think society should guarantee that no.
OK, so you don't think society needs to support the people that support
society. Just so long as we understand that. To me, that's slavery.
> I do think it should be obtainable for those that work for it.
So survival is not only a privilege, but a privilege of the few, when it
comes to those who support society's most basic needs. Gotcha.
> To guarantee it, you encourage sloth. i.e. "I don't have to try,
> because I know I'm going to be happy."
Does a living wage guarantee happiness? Nobody said anything about a
guarnatee of happiness.
And we're not even begining to discuss whether or not basic needs should
be met regardless of work. We're just discussing a living WAGE for folks
who work full time.
> The idea being that happiness is out there, and obtainable.
...as long as your idea of happiness is working for money at a job you
might not enjoy and maybe has nothing to do with supporting society.
What if happiness is picking strawberries all day? Shouldn't that provide
a living wage for a person who chooses to meet this societal need?
> > > The right is "...the pursuit of happiness." No one ever claimed that
> > > anyone was guarenteed to reach it.
> > >
> > > No one can guarentee happiness.
> >
> > You've reverted, Russ.
>
> No, I haven't.
I read your statement to mean that the right of "the pursuit of happiness"
was part of the Constitution. Seeing as how this was a discussion of
meeting basic needs and Jeff's interjection that following the
Constitution would provide for that.
Either you meant that the Constitution provides for this right or what you
wrote was a non-sequitor.
> > I told you six months ago that the Constitution doesn't say anything about
> > "the pursuit of happiness". The signers of the Declaration of
> > Independence pledged their belief that all men are endowed with certain
> > inalienable Rights and that, among these, is the pursuit of Happiness.
> > The document goes on to say that "Governments are instituted among Men"
> > "to secure these rights".
>
> Correct. I said nothing about where this is stated, just that it's
> stated.
Hell, I'll state right here and now that peanut butter on Tuesdays is a
right inalienable. That doesn't make it a provision of our society.
I don't see the relationship between something in the Declaration of
Independence (really just a fancy manifesto that gave moral justification
to war) and the guarantees of our society.
You said that survival shouldn't be guaranteed and then said that there
was a right to "pursuit of happiness". Even THAT right isn't guaranteed
in our Government among Men, so what's your point?
J.
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Jeme A Brelin
jeme at brelin.net
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