[PLUG-TALK] Re: Inflation Sounds good to me ;)

Russ Johnson russj at dimstar.net
Mon Jun 24 01:09:02 UTC 2002


On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 17:02:20 -0700 (PDT)
Jeme A Brelin <jeme at brelin.net> wrote:
> > > So you don't think it's a problem that our society fails to provide a
> > > living wage for those upon whom its operation depends?  That shouldn't be
> > > a goal?
> > 
> > I don't think society should guarantee that no.
> 
> OK, so you don't think society needs to support the people that support
> society.  Just so long as we understand that.  To me, that's slavery.

That's not what I said. I said that you may pursue happiness. If lying around and not working makes you happy, then go for it. But don't expect me to support you with my tax dollars to do it. 

If one works, one is compensated for that work (assuming we're not volunteering..) and one gets to pursue happiness with that compensation. 

> > I do think it should be obtainable for those that work for it.
> 
> So survival is not only a privilege, but a privilege of the few, when it
> comes to those who support society's most basic needs.  Gotcha.

Well, I'm thinking more along the lines of the animal kingdom.


> > To guarantee it, you encourage sloth. i.e. "I don't have to try,
> > because I know I'm going to be happy."
> 
> Does a living wage guarantee happiness?  Nobody said anything about a
> guarnatee of happiness.

No. But a wage below the "living" standard doesn't preclude happiness either.

> And we're not even begining to discuss whether or not basic needs should
> be met regardless of work.  We're just discussing a living WAGE for folks
> who work full time.

So, if I understand this. We should pay the 15 year old burger flipper enough to live on... Get their own apartment, pay the PGE bill, the Water bill, etc. ???

> > The idea being that happiness is out there, and obtainable.
> 
> ...as long as your idea of happiness is working for money at a job you
> might not enjoy and maybe has nothing to do with supporting society.

If you are working at a job you don't enjoy, look for another job. I have zero sympathy for folks who don't look for other jobs, or at least a way to get to a job they would like. I didn't just fall into the computer industry. I worked my butt off to get where I am today. If I can do it (without a college degree), then others can too.

> What if happiness is picking strawberries all day?  Shouldn't that provide
> a living wage for a person who chooses to meet this societal need?

Well, then they better sell those strawberries for a lot more money, and I won't be buying them because I won't be able to afford them. 

I did pick strawberries one summer in my youth. Backbreaking work. But it's not a career. I'd also turn this around... Why should we pay a living wage for picking strawberries? If the market won't support such a price, well, strawberries be roting in the field.

> You said that survival shouldn't be guaranteed and then said that there
> was a right to "pursuit of happiness".  Even THAT right isn't guaranteed
> in our Government among Men, so what's your point?

But survival ISN'T guarenteed. You will die. I will die. 

-- 
"The power to untie is stronger than the power to tie."                         
                                                                                
Well, yeah, otherwise my shoes would tie themselves.                            
                                                                                
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Russ Johnson                                                                    
Stargate Online                                                                 
                                                                                
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