[PLUG-TALK] Fair Use, etc.

Russ Johnson russj at dimstar.net
Fri Mar 29 03:34:26 UTC 2002


At 04:36 PM 3/28/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>On 28 Mar 2002, Russ Johnson wrote:
> > > Same thing, whatever you say.  Is there a significant
> > > distinction?
>
>I forgot to address this part earlier, but that's OK because I can deal
>with it here.
>
>But the first thing I'd like to say on the topic is that your ignorance on
>this subject completely disqualifies you from any intelligent discussion
>about its nature.
>
> > Socialism is when the government provides everything for the people.
> > There is still someone (or group) in charge, and they decide what's
> > best for the people.
>
>Close.
>
>Socalism is a system in which the workers control the means of production.
>This is Marx's Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

I disagree with your definition. Please site a reference that supports your 
position. Mine comes partly from 
http://www.visi.com/~contra_m/pc/1957/3-2socialism.html


> > Communism is when everyone is equal, and no one is in charge.
>
>That's pretty darned close.  Everyone has equal access to the means and
>ends of production.
>
> > In my opinion, Socialism can be achieved in this country (and is in
> > many ways. E.G. Welfare).
> > Communism can't be achieved. Humans want to be in charge. They want a
> > hierarchy of power.
>
>You're neglecting the situtuations that arise when everyone has the means
>to undermine the power.

And that can happen where? When? Not in our lifetimes.

>Marx worked under the idea that it would become so effortless to provide
>for the needs of the public, that it would become impossible for any
>person or group of people to totally control those means of production.

And that's where he failed. You still have to have a plant manager, and 
he's going to have more power than the workers. As long as one person has 
to expect more effort than another, you'll have hierarchy, and that's why 
communism won't work. That is ALSO why capitalism DOES work. People who 
work with the system, move up. People who don't either don't move, or move 
down. Welfare begets welfare.

I'm an example. I started out as a minimum wage worker, pumping gas. Now I 
make much more than minimum wage, enough to live comfortably, with a little 
left over. Not bad for 20 years since graduation from High School. And no, 
I don't have a college degree.

>Power is derived from the control of value and value is derived from
>scarcity.  When scarcity is destroyed, there is either no value or no
>control and therefore no power.

So, you would say that we'd have to have many plants, churning out 
processors, so that there's no shortage. How does this work if you have to 
buy raw materials from outside of your utopian area?


Russ Johnson
Stargate Online

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When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a 
nail
         - Abraham Maslow






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