[PLUG-TALK] Re: [PLUG] Mad SCO Disease

Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net
Tue Jun 29 18:30:48 UTC 2004


On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote:
> Jeme A Brelin writes:
>  > > Guess what - that isn't this world.
>  >
>  > Only because there are people like you who would rather have fear and
>  > violence.
>
> There's an old philosophical argument against Utopianism.  If everyone
> were well behaved, that leaves the door wide open to the innovative
> bad-behavor to come in and exploit her fellow man.

That "old philosophical argument" is based on exactly the ideas that keep
us living in fear and violence.

The goal is to create a world in which it is not necessary to attempt to
exploit others; where people are given enough support and proper nurturing
to respect others so that we minimize the number of people willing to go
along with an exploitation scheme and proper education so that they
recognize exploitation easily and early and bring the situation back into
harmony.

> So, NO!!!  This world is NOT short of Utopian just because of people
> like Rob who prefer fear and violence.

Utopia is, of course, an unatainable state, being ideal and all.  But, as
with any ideal, we can continue to progress toward it until we are
arbitrarily close.  The differences between the real and the ideal are our
motivation and our tolerance for them will decrease as the differences
decrease.

In a century, we should be talking about crime statistics in terms of
thousands per decade rather than per year and it will seem gross and
unacceptable.

> The world is not Utopian because people are self-interested and will
> exploit other people within the limits of their capabilities.

I think we're smart enough to recognize that our self-interests are best
served by mutual aid and global consciousness.

> So, if we were all peace-lovers and there was never any threat of
> retaliation, then some arrogant do-badders would ... well... do bad.

Like threatening (or killing) other people with guns for not acting in the
way the gun-wielders see as appropriate?

We don't become less bad by doing more bad.  But it seems that maybe
you're arguing that we shouldn't try to be less bad because that will only
open the door to badness.  It's rather contradictory to me.

> p.s. Shame on you for propogating lies and deceit.  Stick to the facts
> and treat the world for what it is, an evolutionary game where everyone
> is fighting for survival, of their species, their culture, their family,
> and their self.

Have you read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?  We have
recognized this need for survival of each and every individual.  We
recognize that it's not something for which you should have to FIGHT.

The forces you describe are certainly the ones driving instinctual action,
but we, perhaps uniquely on this planet, have intellect that can override
our instincts.  And the forces that drive our intellectual actions can be,
quite literally, anything we imagine.

J.
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     Jeme A Brelin
    jeme at brelin.net
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