[PLUG-TALK] Re: [PLUG] Mad SCO Disease

[Jeme A Brelin]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, AthlonRob wrote:
> On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 01:01 -0700, Jeme A Brelin wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Jun 2004, AthlonRob wrote:
> > > So are you advocating they simply be left to their own devices?
> > No, I'm advocating helping them in every way we can.  Leaving people to
> > their own devices is what turns them into miscreants.
>
> Helping them how?  Can you give examples?

Tell me about the person and I'll tell you how I think I or we, as a civil
society, can help them.

> > How could anyone possibly remove consequence from the world?  There
> > are most certainly consequences for their actions.
>
> Okay, no negative consequences directly related to the bad things they
> do...?

I still think that's unreasonable.  If you do something you think is bad,
it will impact you negatively.  Hell, even if you do something that you
don't think is particularly bad, you can get some really negative feedback
without ever being the victim of violence.

You should ask around and see if you know anybody who was "caught"
masturbating.  Odds are pretty good that they weren't violently abused for
it, but there were some negative consequences.  Civil society can put
pretty strong pressure on people to behave a certain way without ever
locking people up or killing them.

> > Do you really think that it's the police or the law that stop people
> > from killing one another?
>
> To a certain extent, yes.

Wow.  So you think that people would do bad things if they thought they
could get away with it, but you wouldn't because you're morally superior
in some way?

> If you study the history and evolution of the law, it's been shown these
> things (police and other organizations like them) *do* have an impact on
> the numbers of violent crimes committed.

Yes, they DO!  Their impact is in how the numbers are recorded.  See, when
the police commit violent acts against people, it's not a crime so it
doesn't get recorded.  You bring in the police and violent crime numbers
go down, but actual violence skyrockets.  Imprisonment goes from almost
non-existent to an everyday occurance.  Coersion by threat of violence
becomes the norm rather than the rare exception!

> State-imposed consequences *have* stopped me from committing other
> crimes, however.  For instance, I likely would have shot my neighbor's
> dog had there not been consequences for such actions.

I assume you mean legal consequences... there certainly would have been
other consequences, but you had considered them and were willing to endure
them?

You need therapy.  I mean that in all seriousness and not as any kind of
insult or rhetorical jab.  I almost wrote this section to you off-list.
If you want to talk about it further, we can do that out of the public
eye.  But seriously, man... if the law is what's keeping you from shooting
DOGS, you need to get some help.

J.
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     Jeme A Brelin
    jeme at brelin.net
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