[PLUG-TALK] Re: PLUG-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 1

[Russ Johnson]

plug_0 at robinson-west.com wrote:

>>(
>>  Is it possible that all you care about when it comes to death 
>>  is being in complete control of your mortality?  Have you ever
>>  considered that there may be a God who wants you to give Him
>>  control?
>>)
>> 
>>
>>Then he can take control, and there's not a thing I can do about it. 
>>It's just like believing in free will. Either God knows everything that 
>>has and will happened, or he doesn't. If you believe in free will, then 
>>you can't believe God knows what will happen. The two are mutually 
>>exclusive.
>>    
>>
>(
>   Giving God control constitutes a free choice.
>
You don't see the contradiction in that do you?

>  Life support machines
>   can be extraordinary means unless there is a good chance of you coming 
>   off of them healthy.  If you aren't going to be healthy anytime soon 
>   and you will die shortly, being on life support could ease your passing.
>  
>
Most of the time, being close to death is uncomfortable. Life support 
extends life. That's the purpose of life support. So by extension, it 
extends being uncomfortable.

>   Depending on what's wrong, even life support will not lengthen your 
>   life.
>
Then what's the point of life support if it doesn't do anything?

By definition, life support is supposed to "support" your "life". If it 
doesn't, then why do people pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars 
for life support?

>  To assume that people can't enjoy their lives while on life
>   support is an assumption that I won't make.  We are trying to judge 
>   life support with limited knowledge.
>  
>
It's also a decision that each individual should make. My choice would 
not be what your choice is. To have you make my choice for me is wrong.

>   Putting limits on God is putting limits on what a higher power than
>   us can do and can be.  Assuming God is limited to the same rules
>   of time that we are is an assumption that I myself don't make.  
>  
>
Then you can't have free will.

If anyone or anything knows what you will decide prior to making that 
decision, then your decision is pre-destined, and you no longer have 
free will. You may *think* you have free will, but it's an illusion.

The only way for you to absolutely have free will is for no being to 
know the future. So, if God is omnipotent and knows what will come to 
pass, then you have no free will.

I can't put it in any simpler terms, so if you still believe in free 
will while believing in an omnipotent God, please stop now, as you 
obviously lack logic as a basic function.

>   Why should God force us to make the right decisions if it pleases 
>   Him to see us make those decisions on our own using the gifts of 
>   faith and understanding that we have received from Him?
>  
>
See above. He already knows what choices we will make.

>   "If you are the Christ, take yorself down from that cross."
>   You are trying to put limits and demands on God the way 
>   those who called for Christ's cruxifiction did if you 
>   say that God can't be omnificient.
>
I said no such thing. I simply said the two concepts (free will and an 
omnipotent being) are mutually exclusive. That's an easy concept to grasp.

>  Just because you know 
>   of a a good or bad choice, does that mean you never let 
>   someone else make their own choice when it comes to that 
>   particular decision? 
>
That's irrelevant.

>Saying God doesn't 
>   exist is an excuse and an assumption.
>
Saying that He DOES exist is an assumption.

>   Why live under the assumption that there isn't a God who
>   wants us to live a certain way?  Why assume that God 
>   won't judge us by how we live if you can't prove that 
>   assumption, especially if He will judge us eventually?
>  
>
Why not just live?

Russ