[PLUG-TALK] Re: PLUG-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 6

plug_0 at robinson-west.com plug_0 at robinson-west.com
Fri Apr 8 20:13:49 UTC 2005


> No, free will is simply the ability to make a decision. What you don't 
> understand is that if God already knows what you will decide, then you 
> aren't making a decision, you are following a pre-determined path and 
> that means you didn't actually decide. If what you claim is fact, then 
> you have an illusion of free-will, because your choices are already made 
> for you.
> 
> What is printed on the money makes no difference to me. It spends the 
> same. I happen to believe that people get entirely too uptight about 
> religion.
> 
> This discussion isn't even about religion. It's about free will and how 
> that concept is impossible if there is a higher, omnipotent being involved.

(
In God we trust, but we certainly don't have to.  We freely make 
choices all the time regardless of what power other people have.  
Free will is the ability to follow or reject God.  Everyone has 
it.  If we didn't, noone could love God.  To believe that a just 
God will predestine someone for Hell is ignoring God's position 
that everything He creates is good.  Saying God doesn't have 
enough mercy for some people is also limiting Him.  If you 
insist you're pre destined for the hot place, you are committing 
the sin of despair.  You are rejecting the power and scope of 
God's mercy.  If God didn't care about us choosing Him, there
would be no need to believe in Him.  Because of the need for 
faith to know God, nestled between charity and hope, it's clear
that free will exists.

If your father gives you a gift, say a good book on machining
small plastic parts, are you going to tell me that you won't
put your own value judgement on this book based on criteria
you decide on yourself?  One person may not like his father
and decide that anything from him is trash.  Another
person who dislikes his father will value the book.  Still, 
another person will like his father, but not the book.  
Etc.  There are a number of possible permutations here.  
More as you decide a person has additional criteria with 
which to place a value judgement on the book.  To say 
that the decisions different people will make regarding 
the value of a book like this from their father are 
predestined rejects the notion that a father will hope 
for a positive opinion of his gift regardless of what
he knows about his child.  Indeed, this father may expect 
disinterest, but he will still give this book hoping to 
see it put to good use by his child.  The father doesn't 
believe his fears that his child will reject his gift 
are set in stone.  He is hopeful that this gift will be 
put to good use.  In some cases the father is right, in
others he is wrong.  Predictions are some right and 
some wrong no matter who makes them concerning the 
outcome of his attempt to gift his child with this book.
God's view on what will happen is the right view, but He 
doesn't share it with this father.  I do make one 
assumption here, that the father intends to give his 
child this book for good reasons.

If your Father gives you a book on the history of salvation
and a living church to guide you, that doesn't mean you will 
put either one of these gifts to their proper application.  
It doesn't mean you will believe anything.  In the case of
the book, assume it's a good treatment of machining
small parts, you're father giving it to you doesn't mean
that you will read it or allow anyone else to read it 
either.  Even assuming you need the benefit of reading the
book, that still doesn't mean that you will.  If you don't
read to understand, perhaps ask your father questions
about the book, you're not likely to benefit much from
his gift.

I believe that the Catholic church and the bible are gifts 
from God the Father.  The sacred traditions of the church 
are a tangible source to help someone interpret the 
scriptures.  The bible is a written account of many oral 
traditions.  Oral traditions have been shown through 
countless studies to be highly accurate in certain 
cases.  There is scientific credence to the notion that 
one generation can pass on important truths, events,
and beliefs to the next one through spoken stories.  
Belonging to the Catholic Church and reading the bible 
doesn't automatically make you a good Christian.  You 
choose whether or not to be a good Christian as an 
ongoing thing.  You are redeemed by Christ as a baptized 
Christian, but you will not be saved if you don't throw 
yourself on His mercy.  It takes faith and courage to view 
God as merciful, this isn't a programmed response.  
Trusting God isn't the innate response of any person.
Still, people can overcome their inclinations.

I believe that someone can do quite well without the
Catholic Church and without the bible.  I don't see
any other route as an easy one though.  These are two
gifts I intend to continue putting to good use as best
I can.
)

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