Omniscience vs. Freewill (was Re: [PLUG-TALK] Re: PLUG-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 6)

[Russ Johnson]

glen e. p. ropella wrote:

>First off, we have to clear something up.  Omniscience is "all knowing"
>and omnipotence is "all powerful".  So, I'm going to assume you're 
>talking about omniscience even though you used the word omnipotence.
>  
>
You are correct. I mean omniscient. Although most religious folks I know 
call Him omnipotent too.

>To say that the two are mutually exclusive, is to say that they
>contradict one another.  And you haven't really shown that a 
>contradiction results from making both assumptions.
>  
>
I believe I have.

>So, you say, "If A is true, then God can't know what your decision
>would be."  Why not?  There are two situations where God could know
>your future and that future could still be _chosen_ by you:
>
>  1) Human choice is temporal.  God is trans-temporal.
>  
>
 From our perspective, if God knows what we did/do/done, then our 
choices are already made. To make a change to what God knows, makes him 
wrong, which flies in the face of omniscience.

>     In this case, we humans are limited in our ability to sense and
>     understand the 22 ... [ahem]... dimensional universe in which we
>     sit.  Some of those dimensions _control_ us.  For example, time,
>     is a monotonically increasing _parameter_ that dictates our 
>     manifestation.  We are time-dependent.  Yesterday I was not the
>     same _thing_ I am today.
>  
>
And imagine, I was always told that time was the 4th dimension... 18 
more to go.

>     God, on the other hand, is independent of time.  He's like 
>     Maxwell's equations... he is what he is whether you plug in
>     the t-value of yesterday or today.
>  
>
How does that affect our decision making? If we have to decide what he 
knows, then free will is out the window.

>     So, in this context, we can have freedom of choice.  But, 
>     the _impact_ of that choice simply varies with time... And
>     God sees us as the entire historical trajectory rather than
>     as a coherent entity at a single time point.  So, he knows
>     what we did/do/will do... In fact, "did", "do", and "will do"
>     are all the same to him.
>  
>
 From that perspective, God sees our entire timeline. If we can alter 
the whole timeline that He sees, then we have freewill, and he isn't 
omniscient. If we have to follow the path he sees, then we don't have 
freewill.

>  2) Potential vs. Actual is real and God has infinite inferential
>     ability and can know what will happen regardless of the path
>     you end up taking.
>  
>
This takes us back to the "all possible realities exist at the same 
time" Star Trek story. Interesting theory, but I have a hard time 
grasping that, since I don't believe in alternate universes, or believe 
that some idiot version of myself could make decisions that would result 
in some of the possibilities I can think of.

-- 
Russ Johnson
Dimension 7/Stargate Online
http://www.dimstar.net

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