[PLUG-TALK] Re: PLUG-talk Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15

[glen e. p. ropella]

=><=><= "rj" == Russ Johnson <russj at dimstar.net> writes:

rj> As one of the links I posted yesterday clearly states, Omniscience 
rj> requires one to "know all". Knowing all requires Him to know what 
rj> decisions I make. If I can't make a different choice, (or avoid any 
rj> choice) then I have no free will. If I can make a different choice, then 
rj> God isn't Omniscient, because he didn't know what decision I made. 
rj> (http://ffrf.org/fttoday/1997/august97/barker.html)

This argument is absolute nonsense.

There is no such thing as "a different choice" to an omniscient,
time-independent being.  There _is_ such a thing to a time-dependent,
partly ignorant being.

You're mixing apples and oranges.  You're using words that have a
definition in one context, then you change the context and continue to
use those words even though they're meaningless in that new context.

That would be like saying, "Love is eternal" in some poetic sense and
then turning around and saying, "Therefore, the magnitude of Love must
be infinite" in some mathematical context.  It's nonsensical, except
perhaps as poetry.  (Hey! I hadn't thought of that.  Perhaps by
presenting this argument, you're taking poetic license with nonsense
dressed up like logic.  Lots of industrial metal and rap artists do
that, too.  You come away thinking their lyrics are profound when
really they're just arbitrarily constructed phrases.)

Freewill requires time dependence.  Omniscience doesn't.  If you can
define a time-dependent omniscience, then you can compare freewill and
omniscience.  Alternatively, if you can define a time-independent 
freewill, then you can compare them.

Until you do that, you're just foisting a fallacious argument on us.
And we _know_ it's fallacious. [grin]  And we know you're foisting it.

And with that, I'm done with the argument.  It's obviously not going 
anywhere.  But, thanks for playing.  It was fun.

-- 
glen e. p. ropella              =><=                           Hail Eris!
H: 503.630.4505                              http://www.ropella.net/~gepr
M: 971.219.3846                               http://www.tempusdictum.com