[PLUG-TALK] Driving Around Google in the Dalles

glen e. p. ropella gepr at tempusdictum.com
Mon Aug 11 20:44:06 UTC 2008


Paul Heinlein wrote:
> You say "perversion," while others say "efficiency." Either way, it's 
> it's simply name calling -- scant on the data needed for a convincing 
> argument.

Does that mean you claim there's no data to back up the argument that 
locating a google data center in The Dalles is efficient?

> In this case, however, it's hard for me to see how the residents of 
> The Dalles on are the short end of things -- unless they were duped 
> into voting for tax exemptions due to demostrably false promises from 
> Google. Otherwise, where's the *harm* (inhumane working conditions or 
> wages, environmental stress, resource hogging, congestion, etc.) in 
> Google's facility?
> 
> If Google exacted benefits on the basis of false promises, that's 
> harm. Otherwise, I can't see any "perversion" in this case at all.

Perversion doesn't necessarily always (or _obviously_) result in harm. 
For example, someone who thinks, say, Picasso is the best artist ... 
like, ever, or who thinks that Justin Timberlake is a world-class 
vocalist are not _harming_ anyone.  But they are definitely perverts.

Don't get me wrong, Picasso created some fantastic art and Timberlake is 
... well he's very funny and his music doesn't suck too bad.  But one 
would have to seriously misinterpret their contributions to the world if 
they consider either of them as "the best".  And peversion is all about 
misinterpretation, especially to de-emphasize all the other 
contributions out there.

It's not clear to me at all that google is harming anyone (except 
perhaps themselves if they happen to have misjudged the dynamics of the 
cost-benefit function).  But that doesn't mean their interest in, and 
plans to exploit that site aren't perverted.

I can reiterate why it's perverted; but you're not challenging that. 
You're simply relying on a logical fallacy to re-direct the conversation 
into discussion of "harm".  I think my explanation of the perversion is 
quite clear; so, I won't repeat it.

> A software engineer who can work in a desired locale while programming 
> hardware in an undesirable locale sounds like a win to me.

Of course it _sounds_ like a win to you.  It may even _be_ a win to you, 
if you manage to internalize profit and externalize cost.  (To be clear, 
that phrase means you get a large share of the good and someone else 
pays a large share of the bad.)  It's always a win when we get more than 
we paid for, even if such a cost-benefit payoff is illusory.

> We distinguish "outsourcing" (bad! bad!) from "telecommuting" 
> (environmentally friendly! family friendly!) only because we're able 
> to objectify the recipients of outsourcing as political aliens while 
> telecommuters are "us."

They are distinct, of course.  But they are instances of the same type. 
  Both outsourcing and telecommuting abstract the human away from the 
product.  And both are bad when such abstraction is perverse.

Of course, sometimes such abstraction is not perverse at all.  Used 
appropriately, both outsourcing and telecommuting can be good.

> I don't think that classic marxian "alienation" terms of analysis 
> translate cleanly into the work of software engineering.

I'm not referring to or relying on anything I would call "classic 
marxian alienation", whatever that means [grin].  I'm talking more about 
embedding and the plasticity of the human mind as a function of such 
embedding.  Google will have problems finding quality employees in The 
Dalles because Google isn't interested in building a business in The 
Dalles.  It's interested in a remotely functioning, impersonal asset 
that serves businesses in other locations.  It only located that 
facility there to minimize the logistical problems associated with 
finding and exploiting energy sources (that is, if we buy Dick's 
explanation that google located there for access to power).  This is a 
perverted use of extreme abstraction.


-- 
glen e. p. ropella, 971-219-3846, http://tempusdictum.com




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