[PLUG-TALK] MRC - Why is it popular to promote gay sex?

Michael M. Moore michael at writemoore.net
Tue Feb 10 23:03:28 UTC 2009


On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Michael Robinson
<plug_1 at robinson-west.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, despite the fact that you
>> keep trying to put words in my mouth.  I'm only speculating because,
>> in the midst of a mountain of blather, you have utterly failed to
>> explain this central point:  why, in your view, are some humans, by
>> their very nature, not entitled to the right to "Life, Liberty, and
>> the pursuit of Happiness"?
>
> True liberty comes from accepting the law of God and living by it.
> Obedience to God's law is necessary in order to be free.  You reject
> the existence of God on grounds that I supposedly can't prove His
> existence yet you offer no explanation for how the Universe came
> into existence from nothing.  Everything in human experience is
> finite, that is everything measured by science.  In the realm of
> the provable, name one infinite thing.  If God were just for me
> and not for you as well, I would have no reason to try and discuss
> Him with you.  The Atheist takes a terrible risk, a risk that
> God does in fact matter and ignores that risk.  Just because you
> do not believe in the day of judgement doesn't prove that it's
> not coming.  As far as trying to throw left curves at me such
> as you believe in slavery etcetera, I don't.  I've never said
> that God cares unequally about two different groups of people.
> I've merely said that God doesn't approve of certain behaviors.

How do you get "you reject the existence of God" from "I don't believe
in God"?  I stated, repeatedly, in no uncertain terms, that I don't
believe in God.  I never stated I *know* there is no God.  I don't
reject the possibility that there is a god, a vampire, a werewolf, or
any other mythological entity.  There is no rational basis for me to
state categorically that these things *can not* exist.  I simply don't
believe they exist.  I can deduce logically that if any of these
existed, we would probably know it by now, and the fact that we don't
is a pretty good support for my lack of belief.  But that doesn't
*prove* they don't exist.

This lack of belief on my part has nothing to do with the fact that
neither you nor anyone else can prove that God exists.  Nor does it
have to do with the fact that neither I nor anyone else can prove that
God does not exist.  As I have also said more than once, you should
certainly not feel that you need to "prove" or justify your faith to
me.  It's enough for me that you say you believe in God.  I don't
question that belief, I don't begrudge you that belief; nor do I share
that belief.

My view of humanity is broad enough to accept that there are people
with all kinds of beliefs and points of view that I don't agree with
or that don't resonate with me.  My question is, why isn't yours?
What is the source of your intolerance for people like me?  If it is
not your God (if, in fact, you believe as you say that God doesn't
care unequally about different groups of people), then how do you
justify denying equal rights to anyone?  How can you take the view
that an entire class of people are "intrinsically disordered and evil"
simply by virtue of their existence?  This is what I still don't
understand about your position.

Here's an illustration:  there are left-handed people, there are
right-handed people, and there are ambidextrous people.  I say to you,
"God hates left-handedness.  He doesn't hate left-handed people
because He loves all people, but He hates the sin of acting on
left-handedness.  He is displeased when the ambidextrous act on their
left-handed impulses.  People who are left-handed should refrain from
writing until they can use a pen with their right hands.  They should
refrain from eating until they can use utensils with their right
hands.  They should certainly be prevented from marrying because they
will just make more intrinsically disordered and evil left-handed
people."

(None of this is without precedent.  Prejudices against the left hand
and the left-handed date to semitic languages and crop up in early and
later Jewish and Christian theology.  The Latin root for "right" is
"dexter," as in "dexterity"; the Latin word "sinestra," which gave us
our word "sinister," originally meant "left."  Christians, Jews,
Muslims, as well as Asian and other cultures have long associated
"left" with evil.  For centuries, it was widespread practice,
especially among Christians, to discourage children from writing with
their left hands, even in the U.S., even up to the 20th Century.)

So what is your response?  That I'm wrong about God?  But how can I be
wrong about God?  He's MY God!  My God hates left-handedness!  Shuffle
... play ... repeat ... on and on.

The point is, you can't demonstrate to me that my view of God is
incorrect any more than I can demonstrate to you that yours is.  In a
free society, we are both allowed to hold our own views -- and
left-handed people are allowed to be left-handed and accorded the same
rights and responsibilities as anyone who isn't left-handed, no matter
what I believe my God thinks about that.  In a free society, gays and
lesbians are allowed to be gays and lesbians and accorded the same
rights and responsibilities as anyone who isn't gay or lesbian, no
matter what you believe your God thinks about that.

That is where "true liberty" comes from.  That's exactly what Thomas
Jefferson is talking about in the quote below:  "unobstructed action
according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal
rights of others."  Not within limits drawn around us by someone's
ideas about what God likes or doesn't like.

Michael M.

(P.S.  I'm not interested in speculating on what may or may not have
existed before the universe came into being.  I'm not asking you to
believe anything in particular about that subject.  I offer no
theories because I haven't read any that have stuck with me.  You're
talking about things on the cutting edge of theoretical astrophysics.
I have a hard enough time plumbing the depths of just basic
astrophysics.  If you really want ideas about what might have existed
before the Big Bang, or what might have caused the Big Bang, go ask an
astrophysicist.  Or go ask a priest.  Ask whomever you want; believe
whatever you want; it's no skin off my nose.)

-- 
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within
limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add
'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's
will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
--Thomas Jefferson



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