[PLUG-TALK] Racism

Jason Dagit dagitj at gmail.com
Tue Jan 6 14:03:07 PST 2009

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Someone <plug_1 at robinson-west.com> wrote:

> I am not racist, I am against homosexual sex, deal with it.
> As far as arguing that I am not principled, I base my
> opposition to homosexual sex on the principle that it
> isn't good for society.  Go to NARTH if you need to see
> a principled argument against same sex "marriage" and
> homosexuality in general,
> http://www.narth.com/

I've never heard of NARTH so I checked them out on the good ole 'pedia:

There are some interesting bits:
Gerald Schoenewolf controversy

NARTH received some criticism for Dr. Gerald Schoenewolf's essay "Gay Rights
and Political Correctness: A Brief History", in which the member of NARTH's
Science Advisory Committee argued that "Africa at the time of slavery was
still primarily a jungle... Life there was savage ... and those brought to
America, and other countries, were in many ways better off." He also stated
that the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, and the gay
rights movement were all "irrational" and "destructive."[15] Schoenewolf
later on clarified that "No person is better off enslaved, obviously... What
I tried to say, before my words were twisted by that reporter, is that
despite the clear and obvious evil of that practice, we tend to forget that
many of the enslaved people had been first been sold into bondage by their
fellow countrymen; so coming to America did bring about some eventual good.
No social issue has all the 'good guys' lined up on one side and 'bad guys'
on the other."[16]

Medical view of conversion therapy

The American Psychological Association Committee on Lesbian, Gay, & Bisexual
Concerns states that therapy to change sexual orientation is rejected by
most medical and mental health associations that have taken a position on
the topic, on the grounds that it is often damaging to people's
well-being.[17] The American Psychiatric Association states that "ethical
practitioners refrain from attempts to change individuals' sexual
orientation."[18] Major organizations that reject therapy to change sexual
orientation include the American Psychiatric Association, the American
Psychological Association, the American Counseling Association, the National
Association of Social Workers, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the
American Association of School Administrators, the American Federation of
Teachers, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National
Education Association.[19]

It sounds like there are a lot of other scientific organizations and
professionals who disagree with NARTH and it also sounds like Gerald might
be a racist.  This raises questions about their credibility as an

What really bothers me about all of this conversion of homosexuals is the
story of Alan Turing.  As a computer scientist I owe a lot to Alan Turing.
Even more though, we all owe something to him if we believe that the Nazis
were to be stopped.  His research into computing formalisms lead to the
computers at Bletchly park that HE used to crack the German's encrypted
messages.  He was a war hero, a genius scientist and mathematician, and his
research continues to to have relevance long after his death.  The catch is,
he was gay.  When this was discovered after the war he was given shock
therapy to "cure" his disease (against his will of course).  This eventually
lead to his death.  Thankfully the british no longer consider homosexuality
to be a crime and hence no longer force "treatment" on people.

> or are you militantly activist and unable to open your
> mind to the other side's arguments?  I say the best
> thing for homosexuals is to be cured.

In my mind that is equivalent to saying that you're glad Alan Turing was
murdered by anti-gay laws.

 I say that
> homosexuality is bad for children.

Hopefully you also recognize that any form of sexuality is wrong for

>  I say that the
> APA is politically corrupt and unscientific.

Just curious, what do you base that on?  That they disagree with you about
homosexuality?  Or do you have more reasons?

>  Telling
> a homosexual that he/she was born that way and can't
> change denies him/her the right to attempt a change.

But, that's not what you are asking for.  You seem to be saying they have to

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