[PLUG-TALK] Alan Turing is an isolated tragedy...

Michael Robinson plug_1 at robinson-west.com
Wed Jan 7 07:07:49 UTC 2009


On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 21:52 -0800, Jason Dagit wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Michael Robinson
> <plug_1 at robinson-west.com> wrote:
>         
>         You have an agenda, and no compunction about trying to
>         attribute
>         homosexual experience to everyone you talk to Jason Dagit.
>          Why
>         you have this sick desire to label me as having had homosexual
>         sex is beyond me.
> 
> Relax and take a deep breath.
> 
> For starters, I can't recall the last time I attributed homosexual
> experience to anyone besides you, save for cases where someone told me
> for sure that they have such experience.  Second, you have to keep in
> mind that I don't see it as sick or offensive if you did or do have
> homosexual experience, but from your reaction you clearly take it as
> an insult.  I thought you said that there was nothing wrong with
> homosexuals and that you accept them as long as they are not
> practicing?  Your response makes me really question how much you meant
> that.  You see, even if you had homosexual experience I would assume
> from your essays on the list that you are not currently practicing,
> therefore shouldn't any past experience be perfectly acceptable as
> something you've already dealt with?

Are you trying to get me to say that I am hiding something, that I
used to be homosexual?  Why are you doing that other than to try and
undermine my credibility?  The answer is no, I have never been gay.
I am ethically bound to respect all people regardless of sexual
orientation which in the case of homosexuals translates to 
disapproving of homosexual sex without discriminating against the
individual.  To not admonish a sinner is to not respect him/her.

Now, it could be that you meant for experience to suggest that I've
had dealings with homosexual people.  I have.  I noticed a different
temperament from a homosexual compared to what I expected when 
someone made the foolish mistake of telling him that I felt
uncomfortable around him because of his homosexuality.  He 
seemed more enraged than he should have been when he confronted 
me.  I respect this person now and would not be afraid of him 
today, but I do not condone his lifestyle.  Recently, his 20 year
partner broke up with him and he moved away.  It's sad that he 
moved in with another guy right away who is apparently gay also.

I have always hoped that this man and his partner will change.
Maybe one of them did and that is what caused the breakup.

> Also in my defense, you speak about the subject with such expertise
> and you even told me I should talk to former homosexuals and so I
> guess I assumed you had some experience.  It must be the way you're
> presenting your case.  So if you don't have any experience about
> homosexuality, how can you be the authority?  Won't your audience
> question what you tell them about it?  Won't they ask how you know
> it's wrong and bad?

Ask former homosexuals how they feel about homosexual sex now, 
or are you afraid that you will change your mind about homosexual 
sex being acceptable if you do so?  Does authority on a subject 
come from firsthand experience alone?  Does anyone have firsthand
experience of God in his glory?  Unless you have died and
come back to life, the chances are not very good of you having
firsthand experience of God in His glory.  For one thing, you 
probably can't handle it where God doesn't give us more than we
can handle.  Still, people believe in God and have faith.  That 
faith is reaffirmed by special individuals who act In Persona 
Christi and formalize it through teaching.  It is also 
strengthened by the Holy Spirit who offers it as a gift to all 
who are open to receiving it.  For those who don't believe in 
something, faith in it is unexplainable.  For those who do 
believe, explanation is unnecessary.

>         Every national organization has an agenda, or it wouldn't
>         exist.  I just happen to agree with Narth where I don't agree
>         with the APA or the AMA.

> The corollary to this argument is that people or organizations which
> agree with you are correct and ones that do not are incorrect.  I hope
> we can agree this is a narrow world view.

On this issue I am opposed to the APA, AMA, and all the 
organizations that go along with these two.  The key issue 
here is homosexuality.  If the APA declared tomorrow that 
murder is justified if the person in question opposes 
homosexual sex, I hope you'd frown on the APA as well.

>         I have no "experience" with it and I don't want any.  Just
>         because
>         someone says something is good, that doesn't make it so.  You
>         have
>         no proof that homosexual sex is good.

> In this context, what would qualify as proof to you?

Nothing, because there is no proof that it is good.  
It feels good or oh look someone that doesn't cheat 
on their partner is not going to cut it.  The human 
body evolved for male female sexual contact to 
produce children, explain how same sex sexual 
contact is open to life.

Same sex sexual relationships cannot produce children
naturally.  These sexual relationships are selfish
because the gift of sex which allows 1 man and 1 woman 
to come together in a special way and share in creation 
with God is being stripped of life giving.  Titillation 
is not an inherent good unless there is a male female 
couple committed to each other and to whatever children
they produce.  It's the potential to produce children, 
not the reality that counts.  Naturally speaking, neither 
two men nor two women will ever be able to produce a 
child on their own without some very strange and unnatural 
monkey business. 

BTW, I am opposed to all fertility treatments that 
involve the ovum or the sperm even for heterosexual 
couples.  If surgery will make a male female couple 
fertile, that is restoring function and that is okay.
Sex changes are a form of desecration where the 
patient becomes infertile, so I am opposed to them.
Besides, will two gay men lose interest in each other
if one of them goes through a sex change?








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