[PLUG-TALK] Credibility...

[Jason Dagit]

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Michael Robinson
<plug_1 at robinson-west.com>wrote:

>
> The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion,
> restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or
> ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing
> the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human
> rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social,
> cultural or any other field of public life. '[1]


By the way, Webster gives this definition for racism (as opposed to racial
discrimination, which you gave the definition of):
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

 1 *:* a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and
capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a
particular race 2 *:* racial prejudice or discrimination

So a difference between racial discrimination and racism is that racism
doesn't have a requirement of oppression (although by #2 that is
sufficient), just the belief of superiority.


>
> Saying that American Indians are more susceptible to
> alcoholism than Caucasians of European descent is not
> racist, it's a fact.


So in this context if it's a fact I should be able to find research about
it?  Well, good news, I was able to find this trivially:
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/alcoholism/risk-factors.html

Ethnicity

Overall, there is no difference in alcoholic prevalence among
African-Americans, Caucasians, and Hispanic-Americans. Some population
groups, however, such as Native Americans, have an increased incidence of
alcoholism while others, such as Jewish and Asian Americans, have a lower
risk. Although the biological or cultural causes of such different risks are
not known, certain people in these population groups may have a genetic
susceptibility or invulnerability to alcoholism because of the way they
metabolize alcohol.

Okay, so we don't know why yet but some demographics have a higher
prevalence of alcoholism.  So I guess the NY times article is saying that it
may or may not be race related, we don't know the true causes.

It's one of the reason why
> Native Americans and smart Caucasians for that matter
> should be especially careful with alcohol.  The latter
> is not racist, it is good sound advice.


Well, I guess this makes me wonder why is it important to mention ethnicity
in this advice if the advice is just to be careful with alcohol?  Unless
that mention is there to point out how a particular race is inferior, then
it could be considered racism, right?


> Nowhere in
> Karl's statement did he say, being prone to
> alcoholism makes Native Americans less human than
> other ethnic groups, something that actually is a
> racist statement.


Okay, so he didn't make any statements which try to take away rights or
equal footing from the Irish, Scandinavians, Russians or Native Americans so
he avoided racial discrimination.  But, did he avoid racism by the first
definition given by Webster?  That's the cruxt of my question.

He does characterize homosexuality as a mental, or behavioral, disorder.  I
personally disagree based on the definition that psychologists give to
disorder but that's my belief system.  Just like I wouldn't automatically
consider someone who drinks frequently  an alcoholic.  I would want to check
if the drinking causes a disorder, or problems for the person, or if there
is an addiction.


> You have abused the term racism
> before Jason, I tire of you doing this.


Um okay.  I searched the archives.  It turns out that I pointed to a
controversy over the possible racism of Dr. Gerald Schoenewolf as mentioned
on the wikipedia page of Narth.  I was trying to bring to light a
controversy where others have accused that man of being a racist.  I
couldn't find other examples where I was using the term.  Even here I'm
asking for clarification instead of just labeling Keating.

Jason
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