[PLUG-TALK] Religion is not bad...

Michael Robinson plug_1 at robinson-west.com
Fri Oct 30 03:29:27 UTC 2009


What influences us most certainly can be studied scientifically
even if the influence is God.

> I can't prove you're wrong any more than you can prove I'm wrong.
> Faith is not about proof. In fact, those who teach faith actively
> encourage their pupils to reject proof. You should know this as well
> as I do.
> 
> As per usual, you have only chosen to respond to the bits that are
> convenient for you. Of course, that is your right, but it illustrates
> perfectly the fact that you are only interested in serving yourself.
> 
> I wholly reject your claim that God IS "working on" my heart. Maybe He
> is, maybe He isn't, but it is not for you to tell me. Nor anyone.
> 

You mean you know for a fact that it absolutely can't be proven that
God is influencing you?  You are such an expert on God Wes that you
know he isn't influencing you and you can prove it?  Maybe your heart
is as black as coal and God doesn't work on it.

Believing something isn't about rejecting proof.  Having faith 
without reasoning is as bad as reasoning without faith.  The thing
with faith is someone who has faith doesn't necessarily feel a 
need to prove what they believe, but that doesn't mean that an
article of faith can't be reasoned about.  It can be scientifically
studied if people of faith verses atheists are more or less likely
to enter into conflict.  One can scientifically study and 
statistically analyze the marriages of people of faith verses the
marriages of people without faith to see if one group consistently
stays married longer than the other.  Faith is a way to see what
our limited reasoning cannot show us.  Faith and hope are necessary
for a person to experience love, a giving of oneself for the good
of another person.  It is dangerous to trust someone, you can
get hurt.

I take issue with your faith is taught statement.  Faith is a gift 
from God.  You can not make a person believe something.  I can not 
make you believe in God and likewise you cannot destroy my faith
in Him.

What is so bad about someone telling you that God may be working on
your heart?  What are you afraid of Wes?  Why is your mind closed
to God?  Minds should be open, not closed.

Do you ever pray Wes?  Do you ever ask God to open your eyes?  You
say there's no God, but then how did the big bang happen?  Who or
what created the very first whatever if indeed everything sprang
from it?  Why is there so much order in nature if the natural world
is merely the product of random mutations over a long period of time?
Is 65 million years really long enough for an animal to evolve into
what we are today?  I don't think it is.  I say if you've ever loved
anyone that God helped you do that.  Man is fallen and cannot find
his way without God.  It is possible Wes that you are lost and in
your desperation you lash out at people who aren't lost.

Seeing something is proof of it.  And God said to Thomas, blessed are
those who have not seen and yet believe.  Thomas put his fingers in the
nail holes in Jesus' body.  Do you really think if the Apostles didn't
see Christ resurrected that the bible would have survived intact saying
they did?  How about the burning bush that was not consumed?  How did
the Israelites survive on manna in a desert if the closest thing to that
doesn't occur in sufficient quantities unless God did something?  What
about non biblical sources about the times the bible is written about
that add credence to it?  Can you find secular accounts of the
cruxifictions of people in ancient Rome?  How about the parting of the
Red Sea?  What are the chances of the wind hitting the water with the
right amount of force at the right angle for a corridor to open up 
from bank to bank and stay open long enough for thousands of people to
cross?  How about the account of Jesus meeting with fisherman who had
caught no fish and filling their nets to bursting?  Why would Christ say
time and time again when someone would touch Him hoping it would heal
them, your faith has saved you?

The early Christians were hunted nearly to extinction by the Romans.
There are non biblical accounts of this.  Nothing should have survived.
In fact, the Catholic church has been around since Christ instituted
it with Peter.  There is a line of succession all the way to the
present Pope Benedict that is unbroken and yes you can scientifically
study that.  That would be a genealogical study.

As far as the "...it is not for you to tell me," why am I not to tell
you?  Is this how you deal with things/people you don't want to believe
in?  I think you are your own worst enemy when it comes to God Wes.
It might be easy, maybe even fun to point a finger at me.  That pointing
won't make me the problem Wes.




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