[PLUG-TALK] Religion is not bad...

Michael Robinson plug_1 at robinson-west.com
Fri Oct 30 08:53:11 UTC 2009


On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 21:58 -0700, Russell Johnson wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Michael Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Russell, you can't prove that God didn't make your friend the person  
> > he
> > is before he "found Jesus."
> 
> The reverse is also true. You can't prove that God did make your  
> friend the person he is before he "found Jesus."

Wrong.  You can rule out a person coming to a belief in God from
a non divine influence.  If the only influences on a person's
religious faith are the crappy theories of atheists, it is doubtful
and at best highly unlikely that they will come to believe in God.
It is common sense that you don't go to God unless He makes Himself
known to you.

> > God deserves worship for creating Man with both
> > a natural and supernatural nature.  God is everyone's Father and he
> > deserves our attention and consideration.
> This pre-supposes the existence of god. This is faith, and that's what  
> I have an issue with. Believing in something without any concrete,  
> reproducible evidence.

Ahem, there is plenty of concrete evidence to point to that supports
belief in God.  There is the existence of the Vatican which has been
the center of the Catholic church for centuries.  Believing that men
can produce a single faith and keep it together for centuries if it
is based on a false god is ridiculous.  There are statues of Mary
that bleed and the blood is identifiable as human and a very rare
type.  There are apparitions where there have been secrets
revealed that have come true.  Their is our Lady of Fatima.  The lady
of Guadalupe.  There are the Medjugore apparitions.  All of these
apparitions are of the same person, the first Christian.  There have
been miracles of the Eucharist where priests who lacked faith have
had a host turn into human flesh or the wine into physical blood.  
There are other miracles of the Eucharist as well, like when a local
church in Portland was the site of the Eucharist appearing out of 
thin air in an amount that matched the number of people present at 
a mass.  There have been miracles since the time of Christ at least, 
too many to count.  Maybe some of them could be explained by science, 
but not all of them.  Christ would have known modern medicine and 
the mud he put on the blind man's eyes may have had something in it, 
but even so, giving that blind man sight at that time was a miracle.
It's hard even today to give a person back their eyesight.  There 
is more to talk about of course that proves God's existence and 
His concern for humanity.  There is the story of Jesus raising 
Lazarus from the dead.  Rigamortis had set in if the man stank.  
There are stories of Jesus curing leprosy which there wasn't a cure 
for even a 100 years ago.  The shroud of Turin may be Christ's burial 
cloth which has a photograph of Christ's body on it.  Scientific
studies can't prove this is Christ's burial cloth, but they can
show that the technology to produce the image wasn't common when
the cloth was made.  The carbon dating is off because the cloth
was in a fire.  There are priests, brothers, and sisters whose 
hands and feet bear the wounds inflicted on Christ and they are 
called stigmatists.  There have been cases of very holy priests,
brothers, and sisters levitating.  Look at the saints of the 
church, there are a lot of them.  Joan of Arc for example was 
burned at the stake where her heart remained and was solid gold.
Explain incorruptible saints that never go through rigamortis.  
There is one in Mexico City.  He has been dead for at least a 
century, but he looks like he is merely sleeping.  How many 
pages would this email have to be for an atheist to open
his/her eyes and accept that God is real?  It would be
abusive to make this longer, it's too long as it is.


> >  Atheism is a cancer that I pray will be cured some day soon.
> 
> I hope nothing of the sort. If alternatives are not out there, it  
> would be a boring world indeed.
> 
> If everyone believed as you did, what would you write about? You can't  
> honestly believe that your life would be fulfilling if no one  
> disagreed with you...

It is a sad when people disagree with you on what really counts, what
really matters.  Atheists are wrong, but clearly many won't admit it.
They have a life time fortunately to get a clue.  God won't enter and
live in a soul that is dead.  The prayers of others can turn an atheist
around.  For those of us who are non atheists, you need to pray.




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