[PLUG-TALK] Religion is not bad...

Aaron ke7ezt at gmail.com
Fri Oct 30 18:56:14 UTC 2009


Michael,

Please pray for me. Actually if you could sit and pray for me for the rest
of your life I'd really appreciate it.  I'd much rather you sit around
praying for us atheists than doing something actually productive and
meaningful with your life.

Oh, question. So if praying to god can convert someone from atheist to
christian doesn't that contradict that god gives us free will to believe or
not?  If enough people pray for me to convert and god says.."okay the quota
has been met I'll convert them", isn't that god not giving me free will?

Also nothing spiritual you say has happened hasn't.  I do not believe in
paranormal activity. If it can't be explained through facts and science it
didn't happen.  Period.  Just saying something happened or blindly believing
something happened because "you are told it is so" is silly.  Just because
someone says it's so doesn't make it so.

Also it's simply fact that the church has lied many times in the past--even
the Bible is a mess when it comes to facts.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

for example, is a great site with tons of information.

aaron at kalosaurusrex:~$
Discere docendo - To learn through teaching.
Libera Te Tutemet - You, free yourself.




On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 01:53, Michael Robinson <plug_1 at robinson-west.com>wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-10-29 at 21:58 -0700, Russell Johnson wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Michael Robinson wrote:
> >
> > > Russell, you can't prove that God didn't make your friend the person
> > > he
> > > is before he "found Jesus."
> >
> > The reverse is also true. You can't prove that God did make your
> > friend the person he is before he "found Jesus."
>
> Wrong.  You can rule out a person coming to a belief in God from
> a non divine influence.  If the only influences on a person's
> religious faith are the crappy theories of atheists, it is doubtful
> and at best highly unlikely that they will come to believe in God.
> It is common sense that you don't go to God unless He makes Himself
> known to you.
>
> > > God deserves worship for creating Man with both
> > > a natural and supernatural nature.  God is everyone's Father and he
> > > deserves our attention and consideration.
> > This pre-supposes the existence of god. This is faith, and that's what
> > I have an issue with. Believing in something without any concrete,
> > reproducible evidence.
>
> Ahem, there is plenty of concrete evidence to point to that supports
> belief in God.  There is the existence of the Vatican which has been
> the center of the Catholic church for centuries.  Believing that men
> can produce a single faith and keep it together for centuries if it
> is based on a false god is ridiculous.  There are statues of Mary
> that bleed and the blood is identifiable as human and a very rare
> type.  There are apparitions where there have been secrets
> revealed that have come true.  Their is our Lady of Fatima.  The lady
> of Guadalupe.  There are the Medjugore apparitions.  All of these
> apparitions are of the same person, the first Christian.  There have
> been miracles of the Eucharist where priests who lacked faith have
> had a host turn into human flesh or the wine into physical blood.
> There are other miracles of the Eucharist as well, like when a local
> church in Portland was the site of the Eucharist appearing out of
> thin air in an amount that matched the number of people present at
> a mass.  There have been miracles since the time of Christ at least,
> too many to count.  Maybe some of them could be explained by science,
> but not all of them.  Christ would have known modern medicine and
> the mud he put on the blind man's eyes may have had something in it,
> but even so, giving that blind man sight at that time was a miracle.
> It's hard even today to give a person back their eyesight.  There
> is more to talk about of course that proves God's existence and
> His concern for humanity.  There is the story of Jesus raising
> Lazarus from the dead.  Rigamortis had set in if the man stank.
> There are stories of Jesus curing leprosy which there wasn't a cure
> for even a 100 years ago.  The shroud of Turin may be Christ's burial
> cloth which has a photograph of Christ's body on it.  Scientific
> studies can't prove this is Christ's burial cloth, but they can
> show that the technology to produce the image wasn't common when
> the cloth was made.  The carbon dating is off because the cloth
> was in a fire.  There are priests, brothers, and sisters whose
> hands and feet bear the wounds inflicted on Christ and they are
> called stigmatists.  There have been cases of very holy priests,
> brothers, and sisters levitating.  Look at the saints of the
> church, there are a lot of them.  Joan of Arc for example was
> burned at the stake where her heart remained and was solid gold.
> Explain incorruptible saints that never go through rigamortis.
> There is one in Mexico City.  He has been dead for at least a
> century, but he looks like he is merely sleeping.  How many
> pages would this email have to be for an atheist to open
> his/her eyes and accept that God is real?  It would be
> abusive to make this longer, it's too long as it is.
>
>
> > >  Atheism is a cancer that I pray will be cured some day soon.
> >
> > I hope nothing of the sort. If alternatives are not out there, it
> > would be a boring world indeed.
> >
> > If everyone believed as you did, what would you write about? You can't
> > honestly believe that your life would be fulfilling if no one
> > disagreed with you...
>
> It is a sad when people disagree with you on what really counts, what
> really matters.  Atheists are wrong, but clearly many won't admit it.
> They have a life time fortunately to get a clue.  God won't enter and
> live in a soul that is dead.  The prayers of others can turn an atheist
> around.  For those of us who are non atheists, you need to pray.
>
> _______________________________________________
> PLUG-talk mailing list
> PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org
> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug-talk/attachments/20091030/ce02e463/attachment.html>


More information about the PLUG-talk mailing list