[PLUG-TALK] Chelation, China, Fluoride, and Arsenic

Russell Senior seniorr at aracnet.com
Thu May 9 00:53:45 UTC 2013


>>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom <keithl at gate.kl-ic.com> writes:

Keith> First, an apology - I do not have a paper specifically on
Keith> fluoride and chelation, I got the story wrong.  The delays are
Keith> due to getting permissions in a case involving patient privacy
Keith> to tell the correct story from my wife.  One permission, one
Keith> denial.

Keith> -----

Keith> Patient "Bob" presented at my wife's clinic with what turned
Keith> out to be arsenic poisoning.  Bob used a lot of "alternative"
Keith> medicine, herbs, etc.  Assay showed that one of his Chinese
Keith> herbal supplements had significant amounts of arsenic.  Not
Keith> enough to hurt most people, but Bob turned out to have problems
Keith> eliminating arsenic from his body, and so years of taking this
Keith> stuff left him pretty messed up.

Keith> Although chelation treatments are used in many places, they are
Keith> frowned on in Oregon.  However, my wife found a neurologist at
Keith> OHSU willing to supervise the chelation treatment to reduce the
Keith> arsenic.  Bob is doing much better now.

Keith> How does this relate to fluoridation, and why did I get it
Keith> confused?

Keith>   Time to cover your eyes and - go nah-nah-hah - heard it all
Keith> before - EPA limit 10mg/L - nah-nah-nah ).

Keith> Well, fluorosilicic acid ( H₂SiF₆) is not pure, and many
Keith> batches have fractional percentages of arsenic in them.  The
Keith> barrels coming from China are inspected by the feds about as
Keith> often as imported Lolex watches.  It will be up to the Portland
Keith> water bureau to assay perhaps 100 180kg barrels of 23% H₂SiF₆
Keith> per week in the lawn-watering season.  If a barrel comes out
Keith> marginal(heaven forfend a whole shipment), what is a
Keith> financially troubled city supposed to do with it?

I presume that the City would purchase their stock from largely the
same tested sources (I haven't seen references besides you that they
come from China, but I wouldn't be stunned to hear that, although the
links below suggest they are delivered by railcar which implies the
sources are domestic) that all the other cities use.  Those cities
would certainly have noticed from their monitoring if arsenic
contamination was a significant problem.

  http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/fact_sheets/engineering/wfadditives.htm
  http://www.nsf.org/business/water_distribution/pdf/NSF_Fact_Sheet.pdf
    (see pg4 in particular)

(NSF == National Sanitation Foundation, spun off the U of Michigan)

Trying to determine the likeihood that fluorosilicic acid indeed comes
from scary China, I found this:

  http://www.mapsofworld.com/minerals/world-rock-phosphate-producers.html

Rock Phosphate is where fluoride comes from, by and large.  You'll
note that while China is the largest producer, the US comes in second
place at almost half as much production.  Given transportation costs,
it seems at least plausible that it all comes from domestic sources.

Keith> True, typical amounts are only a few percent of the EPA 10mg/L
Keith> limit, but 10mg/L isn't hunky dory, that is where the EPA will
Keith> shut down your water system entirely, and you get to truck
Keith> water in from someplace cleaner.  

The limit on arsenic is 10 micrograms (mcg) per liter, or ppb, not
ppm:

  http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/arsenic/index.cfm

Keith> Portland has seen as much as 1mg/L, probably drawn from the
Keith> Columbia South Shore Well Field, but is usually far lower,
Keith> below 0.1mg/L.  A recently assayed sample of H₂SiF₆ from
Keith> Philomath, if applied to Portland water, would have added
Keith> 0.2mg/L .

According to Portland Water Bureau's 2012 Drinking Water Report:

  http://www.portlandoregon.gov/water/article/244813

(note that the 2012 report contains data from 2011)

The minimum level of arsenic seen in 2011 in was < 0.5 parts per
billion (one assumes from the less-than that this was below the
detection threshold); The maximum seen was 1.2 parts per billion.
Again, the limit was 10 ppb.

According to this article, the 2012 Drinking Water Report for
Philomath found *no* detectable arsenic:

  http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/151637-anti-fluoridation-group-says-arsenic-hitches-ride-on-water-chemicals

  http://www.ci.philomath.or.us/vertical/sites/%7B2CFF016E-1592-4DB3-9E2B-444FA3EFC736%7D/uploads/2011_Water_Quality_Report.pdf


-- 
Russell Senior         ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.''
seniorr at aracnet.com



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