[PLUG-TALK] [PLUG] USB enclosures

Tom tomas.kuchta.lists at gmail.com
Thu Apr 6 16:50:55 PDT 2017


I will, probably, regret getting involved in this in the next 5 minutes
or even sooner, but for the sake of people forming "qualified" opinions
based on randomly found internet stuff.
I used to be certified for home and industrial installations up to 2kV,
so I feel that I need to step in here.

You imply that stranded core wire is somehow safer/superior to solid
one - that is simply false statement. 

The correct choice of wire type is driven by the application:
  * for fixed installation inside walls or fixed conduits or channels -
solid core is better, cheaper and safer choice
  * for flexible installations where movement, twisting, flexing can
occur OUTSIDE walls and fixed conduits/channels stranded conduits are
mandatory

  * solid core wire has higher power density in volume as well as in
the connections and is generally more durable than stranded wire in
static installations. So you safe $$ on Cu/AL gauge for a given
current.
  * stranded wire has lower power density, less reliable connections
and is less durable due to significantly larger strand surface. So,
everything needs to be thicker, bulkier for given current and doing
that drives lower reliability and higher cost.

Eric hit the nail on the head: "the biggest benefit to the inspections
(for me) is when I move into a house that I know nothing about"
This is safety, reliability and economics problem - like using not
maintained cars, DUI, not maintaining schools, water pipes, hanging
wires on poles instead burying them, etc., etc.

This discussion is a proof that the good inspections and good codes are necessary and positive for the society at large - Unless of course we accept personal responsibility and require "free" home owners to isolate themselves from harming the society and posting demolition and insurance bonds used to remove their houses when abandoned and recover the cost of harming others by their original builder.
I hope it makes sense,
Tomas
On Thu, 2017-04-06 at 13:25 -0700, Chuck Hast wrote:
> What drives me up a wall is seeing houses wired with Romex and it is
> stapled
> down to the wood. If you have to pull that sucker out you have to
> tear the
> whole wall out to get to it and remove it, I have also seen staples
> that
> broke
> through the insolation enough that especially in warm climates the
> remaining
> plastic isolation would migrate, you get a short and either the
> breaker
> opens
> or the short is a hot short but does not pull enough current to toss
> the
> breaker
> but now you have a hot spot or fire... I replaced all of that with
> conduit
> and
> stranded wire, solid wire is another thing that I have never
> understood I
> do not
> believe that I have been in another country where they allowed solid
> wire,
> only in our country. When I lived in Costa Rica, solid wire was
> banned, same
> went for Mexico, and I do not recall seeing it in the other countries
> I
> live in
> either.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Erik Lane <eriklane at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > I think the biggest benefit to the inspections (for me) is when I
> > move into
> > a house that I know nothing about. Especially for plumbing and
> > electrical,
> > I want to know that the work was at least looked at by a third
> > party that
> > knows their stuff. (Though I guess for roofing and structural it's
> > also
> > pretty important.) I've seen some CRAZY stuff out there, and
> > anything
> > hidden inside a wall will likely stay that way until it comes out
> > to bite
> > you. No way to inspect for that when you're buying a house...
> > 
> > Yes, when I'm doing my own work and know it's good it's a hassle to
> > bother
> > with the permit and inspections, but in that case I think of it
> > mainly as
> > protecting people down the road. (They have no way of knowing that
> > I do
> > quality work, except that it passed inspection.)
> > 
> > I like that idea of having lighting on its own panel and so many
> > separate
> > circuits for different things in preparation for solar. It would
> > sure give
> > you fine-grained control! Never going to happen at this house,
> > though.
> > Reworking everything and tearing it apart just doesn't make sense
> > unless I
> > was going to get into all the walls anyway, and of course I'm not
> > planning
> > to. (Knock on wood. :)  )
> > 
> > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> > source=link&utm_campaign=sig
> > -email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
> > Virus-free.
> > www.avast.com
> > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> > source=link&utm_campaign=sig
> > -email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > 
> > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:36 AM, Chuck Hast <wchast at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Exactly, most of my electrical work has been industrial, one
> > > receptacle
> > per
> > > breaker type work. When I went in to redo the home in Tampa, I
> > > found as
> > > many as 6 receptacles per breaker, needless to say I fixed that
> > > because
> > of
> > > the same issue, wife can always find the receptacle that has a
> > > big load
> > on
> > > it and plug something else in and toss the breaker. So when I
> > > rewired it
> > I
> > > put
> > > one receptacle/breaker. 12Ga wire and 20 amp service to all of
> > > them, used
> > > industrial grade receptacles (20amp) so had no issues with her
> > > doing her
> > > thing on ONE but each had its own breaker. The lighting I put on
> > > a
> > separate
> > > panel as I was planning on that being the first part to go solar.
> > > I had
> > > moved
> > > to all CFL and was starting to move to LED. I had the power
> > > consumption
> > > for lighting down to 400 watts with both all inside and outside
> > > (had some
> > > 150W
> > > CFLs) normal operations, I would see between 25 and 50W of pull
> > > with a
> > > normal set of lights on in the home at any given time. Most of
> > > the time
> > it
> > > was
> > > at or below the 25W level.
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Dick Steffens <
> > > dick at dicksteffens.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On 04/06/2017 07:56 AM, Chuck Hast wrote:
> > > > > Yea, I keep on forgetting that for a lot of things out here
> > > > > you need
> > a
> > > > > permit. The
> > > > > one thing I miss about FL. I replaced all of the wiring in
> > > > > one house
> > > had
> > > > a
> > > > > good
> > > > > electrician friend come over took a look at it said it was
> > > > > ABOVE spec
> > > and
> > > > > gave
> > > > > it his blessing. I understand when it is a commercial job or
> > something
> > > > like
> > > > > a res-
> > > > > idential rewire ( I was getting my place ready to add solar
> > > > > panels
> > and
> > > > > separate
> > > > > the low power consumption parts from the high power
> > > > > consumers) but
> > even
> > > > > then to demand a permit for everything is just way beyond
> > > > > what I see
> > as
> > > > > good.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bureaucracy run wild.
> > > > 
> > > > There's a good side to the permit/inspection bureaucracy, as
> > > > well as
> > the
> > > > annoying side. It's an insurance plus to have had a
> > > > permit/inspection
> > if
> > > > something goes wrong down the road. On the other hand, I know
> > > > that some
> > > > things that are "to code" aren't as good as what I want. And
> > > > while what
> > > > I want isn't against the code, it's also not what a typical
> > > > electrician
> > > > would do. Back in the '90s my wife and I volunteered with
> > > > Habitat for
> > > > Humanity on a project in Aloha. A retired Westinghouse
> > > > electrical
> > > > engineer (power) was the site supervisor, and an electrician
> > > > who was a
> > > > member of the sponsoring church consulted. After a little
> > > > instruction
> > on
> > > > things I had never done (heavy cable and the use of the grease
> > > > on the
> > > > connection fittings) we wired 10 houses from the meter base on
> > > > the side
> > > > of the house in. The engineer and I designed the wiring so that
> > > > there
> > > > were two different 20 amp circuits in each of the four
> > > > bedrooms. (Not
> > > > that there were just the two outlets in that room were the only
> > > > outlets
> > > > on one circuit. The same two circuits served two rooms.) This
> > > > was done
> > > > because the typical family had six or more members, (Mom, Dad,
> > > > and four
> > > > kids) and one bathroom. So there could be up to four or five
> > > > hair
> > driers
> > > > running in the morning. Anyway, Habitat had an electrical
> > > > contractor
> > > > wire another one of the houses. The electricians didn't follow
> > > > our
> > plan,
> > > > but did their typical run. That put too many outlets on one
> > > > circuit for
> > > > the need. It was to code, but not what was needed. So, yes. A
> > > > good idea
> > > > to make sure the wiring meets code, but being able to do it
> > > > yourself so
> > > > you get what you want is a major benefit.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Regards,
> > > > 
> > > > Dick Steffens
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > PLUG mailing list
> > > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org
> > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
> > > Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
> > > The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval
> > > on.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PLUG mailing list
> > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org
> > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > PLUG mailing list
> > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org
> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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