[PLUG] A training cooperative?

Dale F. Victor dalefv at k-com.net
Sat Aug 3 06:45:12 UTC 2002


Hello!

I will probably get a lot of flack from this, but here is a thought that
works in another industry. There is surely a lot of tallent out there,
everyone has a computer (in this list at least) and knows how to hook
them together - so what would be the matter with forming a group and
getting some work and doing it. I am not in the computer industry, I am
a cabinet maker I have made a living from it for over 30 years, and in
times like these there is an opportunity. The problem becomes how do you
take advantage of it, how do you see it, and how do you develop it. With
all the talent out there there should be a project (s) that needs to be
done, there has to be a way to get paid to do it. I do not know the
industry well enought to be able to give a firm direction, but there has
to be one - how about the gov't and doing something with security or
some project that someone in Washington wants to see worked on. 

Now I hear that people want to get learning under their belts so they
can work for someone else, this is a good thing, but it seems to me that
you are all competing against each other for the same work, education is
a good thing but there is time to make some bucks. How about doing this
together - as a group.

Ok now you can start a long list of messages calling me everything you
want, but I see this as an oportunity - I am just not in a position to
do anything but build cabinets and furniture for you guys once you get
rich enought to afford it. 
  Food for at least a comment,

Dale

Phil Tomson wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2002, Shannon C. Dealy wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 ptkwt at aracnet.com wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> > > > I look in the newspapers & online I can't find jobs. People I talk to
> > > > are out of work & looking, too. It takes money to train yourself,
> > > > even if it reading books (they have to be obtained) or tinkering with
> > > > new hardware (they have to be bought). I could take on debt in pursuit
> > > > of these goals, but it's frightening to owe money when there's no money
> > > > coming in. I wish I had saved more money when times were flush, but
> >
> > When times are bad, everyone will have trouble finding work,
> > over-qualified, under-qualified, or perfect matches.  Companies stop
> > hiring completely in times like this unless they have a funded project
> > that absolutely requires they bring someone new on board.  Just like
> > everyone else, they are afraid of the economic situation and will hold on
> > to as much cash as possible until they feel more confident in the economy.
> > It's like a giant game of musical chairs, and those of us who were left
> > standing when the music stops, lose (at least for the time being).
> > Evenutally a new game will start, and thats when you need to be ready,
> > because the first jobs will go to the best qualified and/or those who are
> > willing to work cheapest, so now is the time to pad the resume with
> > anything you can.  Self-study courses online, books can be obtained from
> > libraries (University libraries in particular) and friends, volunteer
> > work, giving presentations to your local Linux User Group :-) and if you
> > can afford it, course work at local Universities.  All of these things can
> > be valuable, some of them will help your resume, some will simply help
> > your skill set, but either way, they can help you land a job, not just
> > from the added skills, but also from getting out and meeting people who
> > might have need of your skills at their day job.
> >
> > [snip]
> > > these informal surveys point to an unemployment rate among PLUGers that's
> > > somewhere in the 30% range.  Now, it's possible that if you're not working
> > > you're more likely to show up at a PLUG meeting because you've got the time, so
> > > maybe it's lower, but I'd guess it's at least 15 - 20%. Given the huge loss of
> >
> > You missed an obvious reason for people to attend, networking!  If you're
> > out of work, the way to find it is to hang out with alot of people
> > involved in the type of work you do.  I expect that this may significantly
> > skew the numbers, though I wouldn't venture to guess by how much.
> >
> 
> Yes, I'm sure it does skew the numbers....  But considering there are lots
> of folks out there who are under-employed or temporarily employed (I'm in
> that situation and I'll probably be back in the unemployed column in a
> month or two, though I do plan to become a student by then, so maybe it
> doesn't count:) I still suspect the numbers are at least near 20%.
> 
> > > capital in the stock market over the last two years (that continues to this day)
> > > I think it's safe to assume that all the talk of 'recovery' I hear every morning
> > > on the news is mostly propaganda to keep us from more panic selling. [When the
> >
> > Actually, I think it is on the up swing (at least for what I do), the
> > search agents I use on the job boards have gone from no matches for weeks
> > at a stretch, to an average of at least one possible match each day.  Now
> > many of these are ridiculous (BSCS + 2 years min. exp., Masters preferred,
> > Active security clearance required, . . . , $15-$25/hr depending on
> > experience), but at least jobs are starting to be offered again.
> 
> Perhaps, but as you note, the wages are quite a bit lower now...
> 
> I was surprised to hear from a former co-worker today (a very good,
> extremely fast, highly experienced C/C++ programmer) who told me that he
> had been layed off this morning... but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised
> at this point.
> 
> >
> > [snip]
> > > there with time on their hands.  So, while we're waiting for things to improve
> > > how about setting up some kind of free training cooperative?  People who are
> > > knowledgable in a programming language or technique could train other people who
> > > want to learn that language or technique.  A teacher of one class could be a
> > [snip]
> >
> > I am interested, though there might be some logistical problems given that
> > I live in Lebanon.  I even have some teaching experience.  Anyone want to
> > learn low level programming -- embedded systems, C, assembly, machine
> > code, ones and zeros.  In the old days, sometimes we didn't have any
> > zeros, so we had to program using only ones, and we felt lucky that we had
> > the ones,  . . .   :-)
> 
> Well, the other logistical problem is again, where do you hold such
> classes... anyone got any ideas?  I don't think it could all happen at
> FreeGeek given their space and scheduling constraints.  Anyone know of any
> abondoned offices out there full of networking equipment and computers
> that nobody is using anymore?  ;-)
> 
> Phil
> 
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