New PLUG List - Was: [PLUG] Vulgarity

Jason Van Cleve jason at vancleve.com
Fri May 31 17:10:43 UTC 2002


I'd like to put in a word for Mr. Dealy, for he made a constructive
suggestion (albeit a familiar one) that we create a plug-help list in
addition to this one; but I'm afraid the idea was drowned out by the din
of that vulgarity debate (which at that point amounted to a futile melee
over our right to say "fuck" without starting a flame war).

Disregarding that dispute, I think Shannon's suggestion has merit
without its unfortunate context, for it seems to me the contents of this
list can well be divided into two main categories:  technical
cooperation and political debate.  Both seem important to PLUG members,
and both are generally considered to be on topic.  Putting on my
engineer hat for a moment, this seems like a clear and natural
bifurcation for this list, though I know there are other types of posts
than these two.  While I occasionally enjoy our intellectual pissing
contests, the primary reason I read PLUG is to learn how to use
GNU/Linux, to ask how-to type questions of my own and to learn from
those of others.  So usually I just find these (occasional?) political
uproars to be distracting--interesting, but distracting.  (And who
knows, maybe some people just read PLUG for the politics and are
distracted by all the technical stuff.)

The plug-help (or plug-tech) notion has failed in the past because, I
guess, people like the idea of this one central, general-purpose
discussion list.  Well, I admit I am among them (it's a "community"
thing!), but I think the idea of trying to divert some of the technical
questions to another list is not necessarily incompatible with that
fancy.

Here's an example for the OO programmers out there (indulge me, for I
like to pretend I am a great master of analogy).  Say you're coding a
singleton class, and your source file gets to be 2000 lines long.  What would
you do?  Well, I for one would try to extract some of its functionality
into a helper class.  (See the parallel there?  HELPer class? 
plug-HELP?)  You haven't really changed the design, you've just pulled
things apart a little so that you can focus on them more easily.

Coming back to the real world as I know it, this separate list may also
serve to placate those who would rather PLUG were a mere resource, pure
and "professional", for I expect a plug-help list, where even
Linux-related political banter would be discouraged, would naturally be
a cleaner forum.  (Or more sterile, if you prefer.  I personally don't
mind the "profanity" at all, but I'm trying to be practical here.) 
Probably we would find it harder to get people to ask technical
questions on the new list than to keep the flame wars out of it.

And yes, we have about a dozen PLUG lists already (most of which enjoy
very little traffic), but does that really matter?  I suggest a
plug-help-or-tech-or-something-like-that list, considering the confused
burden this one bears, would probably serve us well.

--Jason Van Cleve


On Thu, 30 May 2002 18:19:13 -0700 (PDT)
"Shannon C. Dealy" <dealy at deatech.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 30 May 2002, Matt Alexander wrote:
> 
> > Agreed.  With the many school districts and businesses beginning to
> > experiment with Linux, it would be a good idea if we all upped our
> > professionalism on this list.  Many new people are listening to see
> > what Linux is all about and how they might apply it to their needs,
> > so we really should strive to give them the best possible
> > impression.  Plug-talk or IRC are more appropriate venues for any
> > "informal" discussions. Whether we want it to or not, what we write
> > on this list reflects on"Linux" and people's perceptions of it.
> 
> This may be the best argument yet for setting up a separate "Linux
> help" list, heavy on the tech. talk, no BS.
> 
> 
> Shannon C. Dealy      |               DeaTech Research Inc.
> dealy at deatech.com     |          - Custom Software Development -
>                       |    Embedded Systems, Real-time, Device Drivers
> Phone: (800) 467-5820 | Networking, Scientific & Engineering
> Applications
>    or: (541) 451-5177 |                  www.deatech.com
> 
> 
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