[PLUG] Requium for HB 2802

Steven A. Adams stevea at nwtechops.com
Wed May 28 16:53:02 UTC 2003


On Wed, 2003-05-28 at 09:14, Ed Sawicki wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-05-28 at 05:53, Steven A. Adams wrote:
> Since I used the term "affirmative action" with regard to HB 2802
> here 3 weeks ago, I thought I should be the one to respond. You
> say that Open Source will win the battle on its merit and cost.
> This doesn't happen in most Microsoft shops. If it did, why would
> there still be Microsoft shops? Why would companies, for example,
> still be using IIS?
> 

Yes Ed, you are the one and if I would have remembered whom it was that
mentioned it I would have given you credit (my bad - many apologies).

I really do believe that OSS will win on merit and I can see steady
progress of this. As Mr. Barber states, I currently work in an MS shop
(indirectly) and I can see management accepting and positioning for
open-source. Getting the troops to follow in suit is going to happen but
it is a slow process, as everything in state government is. I for one
would like to win the war with the weapons that we have now, and those
coming soon, and not with legislated advantage - call me a glutton for
punishment but the tools rock and I have faith in the community at large
to see this and develop it.

> It doesn't matter that our Linux and xBSD servers have remarkable
> uptimes, are resistant to attack, cost far less, etc. The decision
> makers refuse to use it, opting instead for the market leader's
> ill-designed products. Nothing seems to convince them that
> alternatives are needed. Their computers are attacked time and time
> again, year after year, and still they refuse to even consider
> alternatives.

I've introduced at least one agency to a thing called CVS for their dev
teams and it looks like they will be using it, possibly wide spread
throughout the state. This isn't much but it beats babysitting VSS or
paying the big bucks for Clear Case. This being said, I respectfully
disagree.

> 
> Why not affirmative action for technology? It's what we do when
> society refuses to cure its ills.
> 
> You also said that Open Source will win when applications become
> mature. You may want to reconsider this.

I should rephrase this partially incorrect statement. OSS will win the
desktop battle when some of the desktop productivity applications
mature. I hope that reads a little better since I know that the server
applications are, with a few exceptions, top of the line.

> I assume you're referring to Ken Barber. If so, I think you're way
> off base. Many of us have suffered because of the Microsoft monopoly
> and at the hands of Dilbert managers who are clueless about
> technology. Ken has his horror stories and I have mine. Ken has
> said (though I forget in what forum) that he wants to be sure it
> doesn't happen to others. I don't see this as sleaze or being
> small-minded. I admire Ken for his efforts and committment.

I found his insinuations that I somehow had no idea how to manage an
enterprise Unix farm personally offensive and his little rant about a
co-worker walking a dog nothing more than small minded FUD designed to
damage and cause discontent. All you had to do is live the same 3 years
that I did in the middle of dotcom and you would have seen the real
meaning of waste, those of you that saw this too - you have my deepest
sympathy. And yes Ed, anytime someone stoops to an SCO class
unsubstantiated FUD it deserves the sleaze award. 

I'll be the first one to admit that I may have been harsh on Ken and I
apologize to all of you that I may have offended in being that way but
even the friendliest of dogs will bite when provoked. As far as the bill
and what it appeared to be in the beginning, I am certain that it was a
lot of effort and I have, and will, commend and respect anyone that
feels strongly enough about this technology to go to that distance, as
long as it's done with integrity. Unfortunately, that last comment about
one bad experience at the state which led him to author the bill makes
me feel like supporting 2892 is supporting someones personal vendetta.
Sorry, I need to continue to focus on supporting open-source, not
someones personal agenda.

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