[PLUG] Redhat changes, fedora

Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net
Tue Nov 4 22:00:02 UTC 2003


On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Fedor Pikus wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Jeme A Brelin wrote:
> > I've felt for a long time that Red Hat had outlived its usefulness to the
> > public.
>
> You can feel whatever you like, but the fact is that RH was what brought
> Linux to the attention of non-geek public, to the point that RH almost
> became synonymous with Linux for many computer-illiterate and PHB folks.

I think you maybe misunderstood.  I agree with what you wrote above.  And
I wasn't arguing whether that is or is not a good thing, only that it WAS.

There was a time when Linux needed that kind of boosterism to bring it to
the masses (or at least to the PHBs) and that's OK.

But the problem arose when, as you wrote, Linux and Red Hat became
synonymous.  For a time, distinguishing between the two would have been
just confusing and difficult and it was best to leave it be, but the
culture (Free Software) is more mature now and the culture (upper classes
of Western Civilization) can handle the difference, but there wasn't much
reason to make the distinction.

> Ah, so if Jeme does not like a package manager, all other users should
> be denied the opportunity to use this manager.

That's not an accurate interpretation of what I wrote, either.  It has
nothing to do with my preferences.

I just think the world is better off when "How to do XXX on Linux" doesn't
begin "download XXX-1.2.3.rpm".  The general approach is more broadly
suitable and more useful to more people.

Now, if the above were titled "How to do XXX on Red Hat Linux systems",
I'd be totally OK with it, but when the two are synonymous to the public,
there's no difference.

> Say, you would not by any chance subscribe to the "be tolerant or be
> shot" doctrine?

No.

> Man, you must have put on your extra-tolerant hat for this message, and
> took some compassion pills.

I'm not here to trade insults, sir.

> If you prefer console games to PC games, fine, but why must PC games
> disappear?

I think the PC game market is making general purpose hardware more
expensive.  The gamer market is driving new PC and component sales.  The
hardcore gamer will pay anything to squeeze out slightly better benchmarks
or framerates or what have you.  Hardware manufacturers take advantage of
this by making the slightly bigger/faster/cooler hardware incompatible
with old systems in order to sell all-new, all-different hardware to that
gaming geek.

There used to be a residual benefit to other geeks wherein you could buy
last year's hardware at a decent price and follow an obvious upgrade path
to next year's bigger/faster/cooler.  Not any more.  Upgrades aren't a
smooth transition.  New memory means new motherboard means new processor
means new power supply means new case... sometimes new peripherals or
backward-compatible controller cards or the like.

Granted the unit prices are lower, but the waste is going up up up... and
the relative cost of going with last year's hardware isn't nearly the
great savings it used to be.

> > But second and almost as important, the destruction of a false
> > (however de facto the suits thought it might be) standard will ensure
> > that people will be educated in the general purpose concepts rather
> > than the Red Hat-centric system solutions.
>
> Do you take EVERY opportunity to learn something new, or you want things to
> "just work" every now and then?

I try.  But sure, sometimes I'm lazier than I should be.

> Stop yourself while doing some regular everyday activity and think,
> could you have learned something new if you were suddenly forced to do
> it differently?

I assure you that if I had Microsoft faucets that only connected to
Microsoft or Microsoft-licensed third-party pipes, I'd be looking toward a
more general solution or, barring that, learning as many different pipe
systems as I can in order to better provide for my water when the shit
inevitably hits the fan.

But, at the risk of going off on a tangent that this thread doesn't need
to follow, I do think it's dangerous for a society to depend on technology
that few people understand.  That just creates a class of learned clergy
that pushes everyone else around.  Yes, I know that's how things have
always been.  But we've also always had war, oppression, poverty, hate,
and greed... that doesn't mean we should actively support those things.

I don't know as much about all the technology I use as I'd like, but I do
know enough to either call bullshit on those who would use it against me
or do without.  And that's as close as most folks could probably get
without living in a cave.

J.
-- 
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     Jeme A Brelin
    jeme at brelin.net
   -----------------
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