[PLUG] MS Access Equivalent

[Cliff Wells]

On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 18:25, Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> On Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:28 AM, Cliff Wells 
> [SMTP:logiplex at qwest.net] wrote:
> ...
> > That sounds more like "systems you *don't* know".  If other systems take
> > you that much longer, it's most likely because you aren't familiar with
> > those systems.
> >
> > > There are a lot of database situations with less than 5 users.
> >
> > True.  And more than 1 user is a problem for Access (using JET).
> 
> That's simply a load of hooey.  

Hey.  That's *my* line ;)

> I've run several systems with 10 or 20 
> users, and they all worked fine.  Occasional corruption was always 
> repairable except in one case, and that's what backups are for.  Of course, 
> if the loss of a 1/2 days work is costy, then I agree, JET/MDB is not the 
> right database engine, though at least for reporting, Access is still 
> definitely the best front-end I know of.

To me, "occasional corruption" is unacceptable in a database. 
Especially one you have to pay per seat licensing for.  I ran a MySQL
database for over a year with over 90 users and *never* had any
corruption.  All software has problems, however I prefer to stick with
software where problems are exception, rather than the rule.

> ...
> > > Years ago I built an ERP/sales tool with
> > > Access and sold it to companies with 2~15 users. I moved away and on,
> > > don't support it any more but they still use it as the main tool for
> > > bidding, ordering and invoicing, warehouse management and stuff.
> >
> > And have you actually followed up to see these user's experiences?  I'm
> > aware of plenty of systems where users have simply become used to the
> > flaws and don't complain about having to restore data, getting locked
> > out, crashes, having to avoid certain features, etc, etc.  They consider
> > it a basic cost of using computers.  It doesn't mean that there's
> > nothing wrong with the application, just that the users have figured out
> > how to live with it.
> 
> I'm an Access developer, and I support the systems I create.  Right now, 
> I'm helping a client update a system that's been running 'til now in Access 
> 2.0 (16-bit).

You didn't address what I said.  Logiplex has customers still running
Xenix.  Doesn't mean they don't hate it ;)

> > > If we want to compete against an established monopoly it doesn't help 
> to
> > > ignore its strengths.
> >
> > Not competing.  Simply using the best tools.
> 
> Well, best depends on what you're trying to accomplish, and in how much 
> time.  it also depends on whether you want your client to be able to do 
> basic maintenance themselves without having to learn a programming 
> language.

That is certainly true.  However, I still stick with my earlier premise
that using toy software in a commercial deployment is a risk.  People do
it all the time and manage, but you have to wonder what they could have
accomplished had they chosen to go with a better system.  Having a SQL
server allows for a lot of integration and centralization of data.  You
can probably manage the same with Access, but the more data you start
storing in your database, the more reliability and scalability become a
factor, and these are the places Access is way behind other products.

> > 1. Gleefully ignoring reality since 1994.
> 
> Or simply working on projects with different priorities.

Possibly.  However, I also try not to look at a project's priorities
without considering things like long-term expandability and
interoperability.  If a customer just wants a simple database for
storing inventory, Access sounds good.  But I also consider the
probability that they will also eventually want accounting and payroll,
customer lists, that they might one day want to stick that data behind a
web server for online transactions*, etc.  There might be a bit of
initial overhead to using a SQL server, but in the long run it pays off.

*Yes, I know some people have used Access as a backend for web
applications.  Please don't admit to being one of those ;)


Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555