From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 1 01:14:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 1 01:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Why? During the boot process, the Slackware-9.1 box runs /sbin/agetty > and discovers that "/usr/local/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not > found (required by ...)". Sigh. To me, THIS is the crazy part. Why would your distribution put binaries linked dynamically in /sbin? I've always learned that /sbin (and /usr/sbin) is where you put STATICALLY linked libraries so that you don't ever have this problem. I now see that Debian does this same dumb thing. Phew. When did this happen? Whenever I build a system, I keep all the statically compiled binaries hanging around in /sbin so that I have them in emergencies. (Like that time when I deleted /lib... but we don't talk about that around here.) J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From mikeraz at patch.com Sun Feb 1 06:58:11 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Sun Feb 1 06:58:11 2004 Subject: [PLUG] stupid vi question In-Reply-To: <20040201060752.GA3832@kippered.herring.org> References: <401C36BA.9000807@brianquade.net> <20040201060752.GA3832@kippered.herring.org> Message-ID: <20040201145641.GA5827@patch.com> On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 10:07:52PM -0800, Sandy Herring wrote: > In your .vimrc, > > set nohlsearch ' (aka nohls) > > That's the default behavior, so I suspect your .vimrc has > > set hlsearch ' (aka hls) If you don't have a personalized .vimrc check for a system vimrc which may be at /usr/share/vim/vim61/macros/vimrc or `locate vimrc` to find it. The global vimrc can be copied to ~/.vimrc for mangling to your satisfaction. The installation on my system also has vimrc_example.vim and gvimrc_example.vim. These have a few more explanatory comments than the vimrc. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. -- Henry Spencer From aschlemm at comcast.net Sun Feb 1 09:54:02 2004 From: aschlemm at comcast.net (Anthony Schlemmer) Date: Sun Feb 1 09:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] tiny-box gateway routers, linux-based? In-Reply-To: <86ad44wq1u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86ektjovhw.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <200401302107.13415.aschlemm@comcast.net> <86ad44wq1u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <200402010953.01407.aschlemm@comcast.net> We started in our office with a Netgear FVS318 but since it was limited to only 8 VPN tunnels so we soon out grew it. Our company's management has been pleased with the SnapGear boxes since other appliance solutions like SonicWall, or WatchGuard are much more expensive. The SME570s supports up to 500 VPN tunnels simultaneously and so in the end is very cheap and gives us alot of room to grow. The Soekris looks great but for some of people it's not going to fly since buywe has to put some piences together and install the software. The order page makes it clear that if you don't know what you're doing and can't get any help with the installing the software don't place an order. If I was consulting for a small business I'd recommend a Netgear FVS318 myself. It's easy to configure, cheap, and does the job quite nicely. Tony On Friday 30 January 2004 23:11 pm, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "Anthony" == Anthony Schlemmer writes: > > Russell> What do people like, and do any of them run linux under the > Russell> covers (in a potentially useful way)? > > Anthony> The company I work for has purchased 3 SME570 boxes [...] > > Ouch! About $600 a piece. > > Anthony> I'm contemplating one for my home so I don't have to keep a > Anthony> PC-based firewall running all of the time. For my home I > Anthony> don't need a unit with the hardware encryption engine and so > Anthony> I'd probably go with the SME530. > > Ouch encore. SME530 is $350. > > For less than that I can buy a soekris: > > -- Anthony Schlemmer aschlemm at comcast.net From griffint at pobox.com Sun Feb 1 10:24:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Sun Feb 1 10:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402011023.50825.griffint@pobox.com> On Sunday 01 February 2004 1:15 am, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Why? During the boot process, the Slackware-9.1 box runs /sbin/agetty > > and discovers that "/usr/local/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not > > found (required by ...)". Sigh. > > To me, THIS is the crazy part. > > Why would your distribution put binaries linked dynamically in /sbin? > I've always learned that /sbin (and /usr/sbin) is where you put STATICALLY > linked libraries so that you don't ever have this problem. > > I now see that Debian does this same dumb thing. Phew. When did this > happen? > > Whenever I build a system, I keep all the statically compiled binaries > hanging around in /sbin so that I have them in emergencies. (Like that > time when I deleted /lib... but we don't talk about that around here.) > Most distro's at least put a statically linked shell program on the system so that you can boot by passing an "init" option to the kernel through grub or lilo. On RedHat/Fedora it's /bin/ash.static. I've also seen systems with a statically linked bash, though that can be rather large. Terry From heinlein at madboa.com Sun Feb 1 10:30:03 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Sun Feb 1 10:30:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] tiny-box gateway routers, linux-based? In-Reply-To: <200402010953.01407.aschlemm@comcast.net> References: <86ektjovhw.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <200401302107.13415.aschlemm@comcast.net> <86ad44wq1u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <200402010953.01407.aschlemm@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Anthony Schlemmer wrote: > If I was consulting for a small business I'd recommend a Netgear > FVS318 myself. It's easy to configure, cheap, and does the job quite > nicely. I like the Netgear stuff, too, but its firmware seems to have more problems than most with specific cards: a Centrino bug was only recently fixed, and there's packet loss with new Proxim (Hermes II) cards. -- Paul Heinlein From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 10:41:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 10:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: <200402011023.50825.griffint@pobox.com> References: <200402011023.50825.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Terry Griffin wrote: > > Why would your distribution put binaries linked dynamically in /sbin? > > I've always learned that /sbin (and /usr/sbin) is where you put STATICALLY > > linked libraries so that you don't ever have this problem. Probably to trap the innocent, like me. > > I now see that Debian does this same dumb thing. Phew. When did this > > happen? Most likely when you installed the distribution. > > Whenever I build a system, I keep all the statically compiled binaries > > hanging around in /sbin so that I have them in emergencies. (Like that > > time when I deleted /lib... but we don't talk about that around here.) Only a few weeks ago, when I was seriously distracted, I inadvertently blew away /usr. Slackware rescue disk saved me then. Don't know why I didn't think of this myself last evening. Probably too upset with myself. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 10:42:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 10:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: <401C757A.7050600@znark.com> References: <401C757A.7050600@znark.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Ian Burrell wrote: > Also, you might want to try starting a shell directly instead of going > through the single-mode init process. Try setting the "init=/bin/bash" > kernel parameter. Ian, Strangely, that did not work this time. But, see the next message. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 10:46:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 10:46:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: <1075610315.2300.1481.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> References: <401C757A.7050600@znark.com> <1075610315.2300.1481.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Kenneth G. Stephens wrote: > The installation media is its own environment. Use the rescue mode and > follow the chroot instructions. Then delete or move the libc.so.6 > files. Then reboot. You will be whole again. Ken/Rob, Yup. Disk 2 is the live Slackware/rescue disk. Worked like a charm since I knew which partitions were /usr and /usr/local. Removed the wayward libc.so.* and life is once again back on track. I think. Someone's removed a few spikes, however, and there are deteriorating ties, so the track is neither stable nor secure. However, the train of live chugs on, blowing cinders and hot ashes to the rear. Long string of cars with heavy freight being towed along so it's always an interesting journey. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 1 12:27:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 1 12:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: References: <200402011023.50825.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Terry Griffin wrote: > > > Why would your distribution put binaries linked dynamically in /sbin? > > > I've always learned that /sbin (and /usr/sbin) is where you put STATICALLY > > > linked libraries so that you don't ever have this problem. > > > I now see that Debian does this same dumb thing. Phew. When did this > > > happen? > > > Whenever I build a system, I keep all the statically compiled binaries > > > hanging around in /sbin so that I have them in emergencies. (Like that > > > time when I deleted /lib... but we don't talk about that around here.) Do try to keep your quotations straight. For the record, the above was written entirely be me, not Terry Griffin. Apologies to Terry. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 14:18:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 14:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What does this mean? Message-ID: In a directory, as root, I tried to execute the following command: rm .~ Instead of having all backup files deleted, I saw this: rm: cannot lstat `.~': No such file or directory I'd like to learn what I broke (probably related to the mass movement of /usr/local from the RH 7.3 system to the Slack 9.1 system) that affects rm. Any ideas? I can remove the files if I specify each one fully, but not with a wildcard expansion. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From ian at znark.com Sun Feb 1 14:19:02 2004 From: ian at znark.com (Ian Burrell) Date: Sun Feb 1 14:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Sonicwall and SSH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401D7B13.40603@znark.com> Matt Alexander wrote: > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Ian Burrell wrote: >> >>I recently figured out how to keep our Sonicwall at work from timing out >>connections. There is a default inactivity timeout but this didn't seem >>to affect the connections. There is also a timeout on each of the >>filter rules. If you increase the timeout on the incoming SSH rule, >>then they won't timeout. > > > True, but my problem was with outgoing ssh connections. I've resolved the > problem by adjusting tcp_keepalive_time on my Linux box, but it'd be nice > if I could have the Sonicwall not close ssh connections in the first > place. > Then you want to change the inactivity timeout on the rule that allows outgoing connections. The advantage of changing the firewall is that it affects all connections including protocols where it is hard to set an application keep alive. - Ian -- ian at znark.com http://www.znark.com/ From m at pdxlug.org Sun Feb 1 14:23:02 2004 From: m at pdxlug.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 1 14:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What does this mean? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > In a directory, as root, I tried to execute the following command: > rm .~ > > Instead of having all backup files deleted, I saw this: > rm: cannot lstat `.~': No such file or directory > > I'd like to learn what I broke (probably related to the mass movement of > /usr/local from the RH 7.3 system to the Slack 9.1 system) that affects rm. > > Any ideas? I can remove the files if I specify each one fully, but not > with a wildcard expansion. Try adding the wildcard. ;-) rm .~* From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 1 14:30:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 1 14:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What does this mean? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075674573.1531.2.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 14:16, Rich Shepard wrote: > In a directory, as root, I tried to execute the following command: > rm .~ > > Instead of having all backup files deleted, I saw this: > rm: cannot lstat `.~': No such file or directory > > I'd like to learn what I broke (probably related to the mass movement of > /usr/local from the RH 7.3 system to the Slack 9.1 system) that affects rm. > > Any ideas? I can remove the files if I specify each one fully, but not > with a wildcard expansion. > > Thanks, > > Rich You're tired, try *~. Regards -- Bill Spears From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 1 14:36:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 1 14:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Phony Mail Bounces Message-ID: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> Is anybody else getting phony mailbounce notices. I'm getting about 12 a day. I've only looked at two of the msg bodies, and they had some HTML from "Jonathon Livingston Seagul" and had been "sent" by me to people I never heard of. -- Bill Spears From kens at kens.cad2cam.com Sun Feb 1 14:49:01 2004 From: kens at kens.cad2cam.com (Kenneth G. Stephens) Date: Sun Feb 1 14:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: References: <401C757A.7050600@znark.com> <1075610315.2300.1481.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> Message-ID: <1075675684.5515.1703.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 10:45, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Kenneth G. Stephens wrote: > > > The installation media is its own environment. Use the rescue mode and > > follow the chroot instructions. Then delete or move the libc.so.6 > > files. Then reboot. You will be whole again. > > Ken/Rob, > > Yup. Disk 2 is the live Slackware/rescue disk. Worked like a charm since I > knew which partitions were /usr and /usr/local. > > Removed the wayward libc.so.* and life is once again back on track. I > think. Someone's removed a few spikes, however, and there are deteriorating > ties, so the track is neither stable nor secure. However, the train of live > chugs on, blowing cinders and hot ashes to the rear. Long string of cars > with heavy freight being towed along so it's always an interesting journey. > > Rich > > -- > Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President > Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) > Yeh, you need to watch those cinders out the rear. Pam won't like them. Ken From kens at kens.cad2cam.com Sun Feb 1 14:52:01 2004 From: kens at kens.cad2cam.com (Kenneth G. Stephens) Date: Sun Feb 1 14:52:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Phony Mail Bounces In-Reply-To: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1075675904.2199.1707.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 14:35, Bill Spears wrote: > Is anybody else getting phony mailbounce notices. I'm getting about 12 > a day. I've only looked at two of the msg bodies, and they had some > HTML from "Jonathon Livingston Seagul" and had been "sent" by me to > people I never heard of. > -- > Bill Spears That's the worm de juer. Sends out a message like mail had failed to find a user you mailed. Don't open the attachment with LookOut. Ken From aschlemm at comcast.net Sun Feb 1 15:05:03 2004 From: aschlemm at comcast.net (Anthony Schlemmer) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:05:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] tiny-box gateway routers, linux-based? In-Reply-To: References: <86ektjovhw.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <200402010953.01407.aschlemm@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200402011504.20453.aschlemm@comcast.net> Are we talking about the FVS318 here? The ones we have within the company that have found their way to some of our home users is a big blue box and has 1 WAN port, and 8 LAN ports so it's an 8 port switch as well but it has no WIFI support in it. It's the FVM318 that has the WIFI support and supports alot more IPSec tunnels compared to the FVS318 (70 LAN, 32 WLAN vs. 8 LAN only). Anyone know what Netgear uses for the OS in their VPN firewall appliances? I used "nmap" inside our office and it guessed OBSD 3.0. Tony On Sunday 01 February 2004 10:28 am, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Anthony Schlemmer wrote: > > If I was consulting for a small business I'd recommend a Netgear > > FVS318 myself. It's easy to configure, cheap, and does the job > > quite nicely. > > I like the Netgear stuff, too, but its firmware seems to have more > problems than most with specific cards: a Centrino bug was only > recently fixed, and there's packet loss with new Proxim (Hermes II) > cards. > > -- Paul Heinlein > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Anthony Schlemmer aschlemm at comcast.net From amcintosh at earthlink.net Sun Feb 1 15:08:02 2004 From: amcintosh at earthlink.net (Aaron) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution Message-ID: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really old laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! Aaron McIntosh From ehem at m5p.com Sun Feb 1 15:29:02 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Small distribution In-Reply-To: <20040201230802.7958.14268.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <200402012328.i11NSMlS013658@m5p.com> > From: "Aaron" > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really old > laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! Great time for another distribution war... I /hope/ most distributions would still run on such a machine. At a minimum that is easily more than enough for Debian. -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 15:44:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Another hard linux lesson learned: oops! In-Reply-To: <1075675684.5515.1703.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> References: <401C757A.7050600@znark.com> <1075610315.2300.1481.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> <1075675684.5515.1703.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Kenneth G. Stephens wrote: > Yeh, you need to watch those cinders out the rear. Pam won't like them. Have you been around dogs lately? Those dog farts just sneak silently up on you and attack without warning. :-) Thanks for the suggestions, Ken, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 15:49:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 15:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What does this mean? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Try adding the wildcard. ;-) > > rm .~* Hokay -- time for a break. It should be rm .*~, but you're right about having only half the definition there. Perhaps I should go vegetate in front of the Stupor Bowl and not try to do computer things for the rest of the weekend. I'm working simultaneously on three machines; two of them have their keyboards right in front of me and I do find myself typing on one and looking at the other monitor, wondering why I don't see the characters appear. Thanks, Matt, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 16:15:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Phony Mail Bounces In-Reply-To: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Is anybody else getting phony mailbounce notices. I'm getting about 12 > a day. I've only looked at two of the msg bodies, and they had some > HTML from "Jonathon Livingston Seagul" and had been "sent" by me to > people I never heard of. Certainly! Those are laden with the MyDoom virii. I've been getting them for about a week. I also get reports that such virus-laden messages originated from me. So the attack spoofs sender names and domains indiscriminately. Fun, eh? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 16:16:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:16:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Aaron wrote: > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really old > laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! Aaron, Slackware. 8.1 if not the newer versions. There is a tiny distribution on the disks. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 16:20:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:20:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Slackware. 8.1 if not the newer versions. There is a tiny distribution on > the disks. This is not to be construed as a distribution war, but as documentation that you have a variety of choices from among which to chose. So far you know of Debian and Slackware. I'm sure there will be others. Close your eyes and put your finger on the monitor. That'll help you select the distribution to use. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 1 16:35:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Phony Mail Bounces In-Reply-To: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040202003426.GA20887@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 02:35:25PM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > Is anybody else getting phony mailbounce notices. I'm getting about 12 > a day. I've only looked at two of the msg bodies, and they had some > HTML from "Jonathon Livingston Seagul" and had been "sent" by me to > people I never heard of. I've seen real bounce messages from broken mail servers that aren't rejecting at SMTP-time when a user doesn't exist, along with the virus bounces... But that's all easily taken care of: These unwanted nuisances do not change their email address. So just go add blacklist_from lines to your ~/.spamassasin/user_prefs...example... blacklist_from virusscanner at brokensite.us This forces spamassassin to mark anything coming from that address as spam, but doesn't outright slaughter it like having procmail send it to /dev/null. Just in case, for some reason, their virus scanner's return email address has a local-part of postmaster or MAILER-DAEMON, in case it's actually something you need. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAHZsSUzgNqloQMwcRAnd3AJ0VXd1kOdaLmfTOikX8JDfT+HJDBgCgrdII 7hVy74H0Yq1zLEcbF10ZX+s= =laPh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 1 16:40:03 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Phony Mail Bounces In-Reply-To: References: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040202003920.GB20887@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 04:13:52PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Certainly! Those are laden with the MyDoom virii. I've been getting them > for about a week. I also get reports that such virus-laden messages > originated from me. So the attack spoofs sender names and domains > indiscriminately. I solved the problem of that happening with my users with exim4 and clamav. http://ursine.ca/~baloo/clamd-exiscan.txt - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAHZw4UzgNqloQMwcRAs4gAKCXCaQDk1zNqejlmqBaKgQHydJEmgCgiq3b Qk+1tqwRyoMFBSjjKaO8mmk= =L5WP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 1 16:42:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 1 16:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: <20040202004137.GA27697@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 03:06:33PM -0800, Aaron wrote: > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really old > laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! Debian's pretty handy in that spot...the base install is *tiny*, build from there. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAHZzBUzgNqloQMwcRAikgAJ4nbx7fV7/6lhluiDDsmnD8WJ/CeACg2yir 0PQOLciMLXRyfe15ohRz59E= =qpFm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jack at bonyari.com Sun Feb 1 19:12:02 2004 From: jack at bonyari.com (Jack Morgan) Date: Sun Feb 1 19:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: <20040202031121.GB7520@saitama.bonyari.com> On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 03:06:33PM -0800, Aaron wrote: > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really old > laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! Besides those already mentioned, have a look at NetBSD. -- Jack Morgan pub 1024D/620F545F 2002-06-18 Jack Morgan Key fingerprint = B343 94EB 0658 E19B D91D 7EA5 15E1 FD24 620F 545F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 19:52:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 19:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Phony Mail Bounces In-Reply-To: <20040202003920.GB20887@ursine.ca> References: <1075674924.1531.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040202003920.GB20887@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > I solved the problem of that happening with my users with exim4 and > clamav. I've avoided most of it by putting key phrases in postfix's header_checks and body_checks. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 1 19:54:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 1 19:54:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: <20040202004137.GA27697@ursine.ca> References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> <20040202004137.GA27697@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > Debian's pretty handy in that spot...the base install is *tiny*, build > from there. In Doc Searle's article on DIY-IT in the latest Linux Journal he notes that while Red Hat and SuSE are reported in the press by their sales figures, debian is found in many IT shops, too. Because there are no sales figures for debian it's not reported with the others. All in all, who cares what distribution is used? I certainly don't. It works (until I screw up), it's solid and reliable and the price can't be beat. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From heinlein at madboa.com Sun Feb 1 20:27:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Sun Feb 1 20:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Aaron wrote: > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really > old laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! A great starting point is the Linux Weekly News Distributions page: http://lwn.net/Distributions/ There are two subcategories on that page that might be of interest to you: small disk, and older Intel hardware. I'd also second the suggestion for Debian. You can get a basic installation pretty small. Finally, I know that a group had been working on a single-CD Fedora-based distro, but I can't remember the project name. -- Paul Heinlein From m at pdxlug.org Sun Feb 1 20:33:01 2004 From: m at pdxlug.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 1 20:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Finally, I know that a group had been working on a single-CD > Fedora-based distro, but I can't remember the project name. I'd be interested in a Fedora Live CD if anyone knows of one. Someday I'll get around to building my own Live CD for my own use. From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 1 20:37:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 1 20:37:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> <20040202004137.GA27697@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040202043601.GA12020@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 07:53:21PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > All in all, who cares what distribution is used? I certainly don't. It > works (until I screw up), it's solid and reliable and the price can't be > beat. I suspect somewhere, maybe the popularity-contest statistics are available, which would at least give as an absolute minimum (but surely a lowball figure, since you have to know about the popularity-contest package to install it... For those who don't know what popularity-contest is, you can read more about it here... http://ursine.ca/cgi-bin/dwww?search=popularity-contest - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAHdOxUzgNqloQMwcRAmwUAKCqY8bIoltXgXb/fwezkf+oUGgSHACfa+lw qIlHVOJYBlIjQw+EGkO1jlM= =Z345 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From amcintosh at earthlink.net Sun Feb 1 21:00:02 2004 From: amcintosh at earthlink.net (Aaron) Date: Sun Feb 1 21:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c3e949$2dca6870$21031ad8@bobby> I have looked at this site before. Its nice to hear all the suggestions from everyone. It looks like all that were mentioned should do the job for me. You're right I really just need to pick one and give it a go. Thanks Everyone. -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Paul Heinlein Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 8:25 PM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: Re: [PLUG] Small distribution On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Aaron wrote: > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really > old laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! A great starting point is the Linux Weekly News Distributions page: http://lwn.net/Distributions/ There are two subcategories on that page that might be of interest to you: small disk, and older Intel hardware. I'd also second the suggestion for Debian. You can get a basic installation pretty small. Finally, I know that a group had been working on a single-CD Fedora-based distro, but I can't remember the project name. -- Paul Heinlein _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From kyle at silverbeach.net Sun Feb 1 21:08:02 2004 From: kyle at silverbeach.net (Kyle Hayes) Date: Sun Feb 1 21:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: <200402012108.04818.kyle@silverbeach.net> On Sunday 01 February 2004 16:14, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Aaron wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really old > > laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! > > Aaron, > > Slackware. 8.1 if not the newer versions. There is a tiny distribution on > the disks. And, based on Slackware, there is Vector Linux. It is designed for smaller machines. I've shoehorned it onto a P-133 laptop with 32mb of RAM and been able to run a graphical environment. I think the ISO is about 400MB, but I think there's some means of trimming down what packages you get. I haven't played with it a lot, but it it used by FreeGeek for some of the older laptops they get too. FreeGeek might sell preburned CDs of Vector Linux. I haven't checked. I've had fairly good luck with hardware detection etc. with either Knoppix or Morphix. They won't run a graphical environment with that little RAM, but at least you might figure out the hardware. I once was able to install SuSE 8.0 onto the laptop I mentioned above, but it was an exercise in pain and frustration. It took about a week of trying different things and struggling to understand the German comments on the SuSE web site :-) Best, Kyle From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 2 06:12:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 2 06:12:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Finally, I know that a group had been working on a single-CD > Fedora-based distro, but I can't remember the project name. Red Beenie? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 2 09:00:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 2 09:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A question for SQL-Ledger users Message-ID: I'm considering moving to SQL-Ledger. However, I don't run httpd because I have no need for it. If I read the sql-ledger.com Web site correctly, apache and a browser are used only for the UI. Has anyone here set up this system with a different user interface (gtk+? java?). TIA, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From cooper at cooper.stevenson.name Mon Feb 2 09:05:02 2004 From: cooper at cooper.stevenson.name (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Mon Feb 2 09:05:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] U.N. Report Says Open Source Produces Better Software Message-ID: <1075740132.1512.1.camel@sparticus> Here it is... http://www.opensector.org/1075490138 From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 2 09:20:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 2 09:20:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] U.N. Report Says Open Source Produces Better Software In-Reply-To: <1075740132.1512.1.camel@sparticus> References: <1075740132.1512.1.camel@sparticus> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Here it is... > > http://www.opensector.org/1075490138 Saw that, Cooper. There's also the article on OSS in the US at the federal level in the latest Linux Journal. An unrelated factoid in LJ is appropriate here. The background can be read in the latest issue of The Economist (may be available online, too), in their 2-page article on Microsoft. While the newspaper likes Microsoft as a business success, they seem to have the same problems with its monopoly status as do us reg'lar folks. Reading the articles in The Economist and Linux Journal allowed me to understand why we read the media reports we do. Red Hat and SuSE sell linux distributions and are on most news reporters radar screen. Slackware does, too, but no one notices; debian is very widely distributed but has no sales numbers reported. Therefore, the general press looks at Microsoft numbers, Red Hat numbers and SuSE numbers and reports the market share of server and desktop installations based on those. What cannot be counted is the number of systems that have been converted from Microsoft to linux (or a *BSD), or created running only the latter, when there are no publicly reported sales figures. And, no one knows how many times a single set of purchased cdroms is used on other hardware. My conclusion from all this is that all the numbers we read on relative percentages (Microsoft holding 90% of the server market and 98% of the desktop market) are way off. I've no idea how much off; probably no one does. Anyway, something about which to think. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Mon Feb 2 10:01:01 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: <1075744852.11505.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 06:10, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Red Beenie? Nope, it's either Red Beret or Red Kippah. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Mon Feb 2 10:11:01 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:11:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] U.N. Report Says Open Source Produces Better Software Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Rich Shepard > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:19 AM > To: PLUG Mailing List > Cc: lug at peak.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] U.N. Report Says Open Source Produces Better > Software > > > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote: > > > Here it is... > > > > http://www.opensector.org/1075490138 > > Saw that, Cooper. There's also the article on OSS in the US > at the federal > level in the latest Linux Journal. > > An unrelated factoid in LJ is appropriate here. The > background can be read > in the latest issue of The Economist (may be available > online, too), in > their 2-page article on Microsoft. While the newspaper likes > Microsoft as a > business success, they seem to have the same problems with > its monopoly > status as do us reg'lar folks. Reading the articles in The > Economist and > Linux Journal allowed me to understand why we read the media > reports we do. > > Red Hat and SuSE sell linux distributions and are on most > news reporters > radar screen. Slackware does, too, but no one notices; debian > is very widely > distributed but has no sales numbers reported. Therefore, the > general press > looks at Microsoft numbers, Red Hat numbers and SuSE numbers > and reports the > market share of server and desktop installations based on those. > > What cannot be counted is the number of systems that have > been converted > from Microsoft to linux (or a *BSD), or created running only > the latter, > when there are no publicly reported sales figures. And, no > one knows how > many times a single set of purchased cdroms is used on other hardware. > There are also a lot of machines running bootlegged copies of Windows, and not all purchased copies of Windows are being used. For example, a Company buys new desktops that come with an OEM version of WinXP, yet the corporate standard is Win2k. In this case two OS's are purchased from Microsoft and only one is used. -Rob A > My conclusion from all this is that all the numbers we read > on relative > percentages (Microsoft holding 90% of the server market and 98% of the > desktop market) are way off. I've no idea how much off; > probably no one > does. > > Anyway, something about which to think. > > Rich > > -- > Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President > Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 2 10:22:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] U.N. Report Says Open Source Produces Better Software In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > There are also a lot of machines running bootlegged copies of Windows, and > not all purchased copies of Windows are being used. For example, a Company > buys new desktops that come with an OEM version of WinXP, yet the > corporate standard is Win2k. In this case two OS's are purchased from > Microsoft and only one is used. Rob, No wonder Microsoft reports so much revenue per quarter! Too bad one cannot be exchanged for the other at no cost but the postage. Slide all the unused bits into an envelop and send them to Redmond for credit. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From danh at fork.com Mon Feb 2 10:24:02 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG vs. PLUG In-Reply-To: <401ADE39.1030301@planetargon.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Robby Russell wrote: > Dan Haskell typed this on 01/30/2004 01:44 PM: > > Well, looks like Robby is once again refusing to talk with us. Are we back > > to lawyer shopping? Robby's refusing to talk with me AND he's posting *private* email to the mailing list??? This is why this stupid argument has gone on for almost a year now - it is hard to have reasonable discussions with someone who refuses to be reasonable. From russj at dimstar.net Mon Feb 2 10:56:02 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 2 10:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] U.N. Report Says Open Source Produces Better Software In-Reply-To: <1075740132.1512.1.camel@sparticus> References: <1075740132.1512.1.camel@sparticus> Message-ID: <401E9D05.2020309@dimstar.net> D. Cooper Stevenson wrote: >Here it is... > > http://www.opensector.org/1075490138 > I like the link at the bottom: *Next Article:* Microsoft increasing government sales force Russ From danh at fork.com Mon Feb 2 11:19:01 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:19:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Sonicwall and SSH In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Any Sonicwall users out there? Have you found a way to keep your SSH > connections from being dropped after a few minutes of inactivity? Is apmd running? If so, see if disabling it solves your problem. /etc/rc.d/init.d/apmd stop chkconfig --level 23456 apmd off (I'm sure you know how to do that, I just included the commands for readers who don't.) Dan From cwells at commandprompt.com Mon Feb 2 11:37:01 2004 From: cwells at commandprompt.com (Cliff Wells) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:37:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG vs. PLUG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401EAB67.7030201@commandprompt.com> Dan Haskell wrote: >On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Robby Russell wrote: > > >>Dan Haskell typed this on 01/30/2004 01:44 PM: >> >> >>>Well, looks like Robby is once again refusing to talk with us. Are we back >>>to lawyer shopping? >>> >>> > >Robby's refusing to talk with me AND he's posting *private* email to the >mailing list??? This is why this stupid argument has gone on for almost a >year now - it is hard to have reasonable discussions with someone who >refuses to be reasonable. > > > > How is it private email when it was cc'd to other people? And of course, *you* are the reasonable one, not the person who has made every change *and then some* that has been requested. It's this sort of thinking that makes me believe you are perhaps a little on the left side of the bell curve. Perhaps PLUG should find a different spokesperson and this argument would come to an end as undoubtedly anyone else would see the issue has already been resolved. Now please go back to watching Teletubbies or whatever it is you do during recess. Cliff From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 11:43:01 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:43:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Hard Drive size Message-ID: Dear All: I am preparing to get a new hard drive for my linux box at home. I am reading this HOW-TO: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/disk.html So it seems that if I upgrade to a newer kernel, say 2.6, my box can then support a large hard drive (I am thinking at least 250 GB). Am I reading it correctly? --Vincent _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ?net deals ? comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 2 11:57:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Hard Drive size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > So it seems that if I upgrade to a newer kernel, say 2.6, my box can then > support a large hard drive (I am thinking at least 250 GB). > > Am I reading it correctly? Vincent, No. The 2.4.x kernels will handle up to _at least_ 200MB, according to the page. I know that in the past some WD drives were not as high quality as were other sizes they made. But, other than a new one that's DOA (and going back to ENU today), I've had excellent experiences with WD drives. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 2 14:01:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Mon Feb 2 14:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux classes Message-ID: <1075759754.870.14.camel@nat.alcpress.com> There was a thread a few weeks ago on PCC canceling Linux training classes. Next week, on February 9 and 10, ALC is offering a Linux Networking class that we will not cancel even if I have to conduct it at my house. :-) You can get more information about it at http://alcpress.com Click on the Schedule link. Note that ALC has a program where unemployed people may attend at a substantially reduced amount, which is paid once they secure a job. Contact ALC for details. Ed Sawicki From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 15:07:02 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Mon Feb 2 15:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Hard Drive size Message-ID: thanks >From: Rich Shepard >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >Subject: Re: [PLUG] Hard Drive size >Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:56:05 -0800 (PST) > >On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > > > So it seems that if I upgrade to a newer kernel, say 2.6, my box can >then > > support a large hard drive (I am thinking at least 250 GB). > > > > Am I reading it correctly? > >Vincent, > > No. The 2.4.x kernels will handle up to _at least_ 200MB, according to >the >page. I know that in the past some WD drives were not as high quality as >were other sizes they made. But, other than a new one that's DOA (and going >back to ENU today), I've had excellent experiences with WD drives. > >Rich > >-- >Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President >Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _________________________________________________________________ What are the 5 hot job markets for 2004? Click here to find out. http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/WPI_WhereWillWeFindJobsIn2004.htm?siteid=CBMSN3006&sc_extcmp=JS_wi08_dec03_hotmail1 From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 2 15:23:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 2 15:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Hard Drive size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > thanks You're welcome. The idea of needing 250G storage -- unless for a large business -- boggles my little mind. On a whim, I'm adding 80G to the 60G drive in the new box. But, I'm using (so far) about 16G. Of course, as I develop my fuzzy modeling software and the models themselves, storage requirements will increase. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From barryb at proaxis.com Mon Feb 2 16:07:02 2004 From: barryb at proaxis.com (Bill Barry) Date: Mon Feb 2 16:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Hard Drive size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040203000658.GA5265@edge> On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 07:30:49PM +0000, Vincent Yau wrote: > > Dear All: > > > I am preparing to get a new hard drive for my linux box at home. I > am reading this HOW-TO: > > http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/disk.html > > So it seems that if I upgrade to a newer kernel, say 2.6, my box can then > support > a large hard drive (I am thinking at least 250 GB). > > Am I reading it correctly? > You can use a 2.4 kernel also. The thing you have to worry about is your bios. Does your bios support that size disk? Also when disks get so large, it gets difficult to back them up on anything except other disks. One method is to buy them in pairs and use one for backup. Otherwise you can lose a lot of data very quickly. Bill Barry From lamsokvr at xprt.net Mon Feb 2 17:07:01 2004 From: lamsokvr at xprt.net (Guy Noire) Date: Mon Feb 2 17:07:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Sonicwall and SSH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402030109.RAA07626@smtp.gssf.org> On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 11:18:03 -0800 (PST) Dan Haskell wrote: > >On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > >> Any Sonicwall users out there? Have you found a way to keep your SSH >> connections from being dropped after a few minutes of inactivity? > >Is apmd running? If so, see if disabling it solves your problem. > >/etc/rc.d/init.d/apmd stop >chkconfig --level 23456 apmd off I don't have this on my Debian Box.. TIA > >(I'm sure you know how to do that, I just included the commands for >readers who don't.) > >Dan > > > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- Marvin J. Kosmal Linux Activist Registered User # 88512 Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 Livng life 0001 day at a time. From amcintosh at earthlink.net Mon Feb 2 19:40:03 2004 From: amcintosh at earthlink.net (Aaron) Date: Mon Feb 2 19:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution - x trouble In-Reply-To: <1075744852.11505.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <000a01c3ea07$1b7096e0$a1081ad8@bobby> Hi everybody- Let me know if anyone can help. I decided to go for deli linux on my old fujitsu laptap. I can get the system installed fine. After I run through the xfree86 setup, starting the server fails and I get a message X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 Over and over again until it kills itself. I am setting it up as root, so it should'nt be a permissions error. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! aaron -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Mike De La Mater Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:01 AM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: Re: [PLUG] Small distribution On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 06:10, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Red Beenie? Nope, it's either Red Beret or Red Kippah. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 2 21:48:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 2 21:48:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Hard Drive size In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040203054720.GA32019@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 07:30:49PM +0000, Vincent Yau wrote: > http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Hardware-HOWTO/disk.html > > So it seems that if I upgrade to a newer kernel, say 2.6, my box can then > support > a large hard drive (I am thinking at least 250 GB). > > Am I reading it correctly? Yes. Though you might also want to take a look at the Hard Disk Upgrade Mini HOWTO as well. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAHzXoUzgNqloQMwcRAkZsAKCjYACyCMp8kFleQ2GfxTjWL1xPdwCgkebh gBEh8L6/Mv7tcscsgHISyYs= =lNOu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Feb 2 21:53:02 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon Feb 2 21:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Hard Drive size Message-ID: <20040203055152.GA18381@gate.kl-ic.com> The real scoop on big drives: I have been running big drives ( >137GB, LBA48 ) just about since they first appeared. The LBA48 interface is relatively new, and is *NOT* supported by most motherboards (still!) or by the early 2.4 kernels, which did not have drivers for LBA48. Support showed up around kernel 2.4.7 (Redhat 7.3 for me) after a lot of work by Alan Cox around April 2002. While most current 2.4 kernels now have LBA48, your motherboard likely doesn't (unless it says ATA133 or LBA48), so you will probably need a PCI drive controller card. I have been using the Promise Technologies Ultra133 TX2, which were packaged with big Maxtor drives for a while. Note that the drives show up as hde/f/g/h, rather than hda/b/c/d for motherboard connected drives. The 2.4.22+ kernels are necessary for IDE hotswap, which is handy for some things. As to why someone would need all that disk space - the best reason is disk-to-disk backups (www.keithl.com/linuxbackup.html), but folks that do big CAD tools, video editing, or other "real computation" will have some enormous datasets. The folks up at OHSU doing fetal growth research regularly generate >1TB datasets (3D fluid flow movies through embryonic mouse hearts, cell-scale digitization). When they ship data to their research partners at Caltech, they fedex whole machines (faster and cheaper than the 'net). Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From kgmorse at mpcu.com Mon Feb 2 23:01:02 2004 From: kgmorse at mpcu.com (Keith Morse) Date: Mon Feb 2 23:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Small distribution In-Reply-To: References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Aaron wrote: > > > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really > > old laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! > > A great starting point is the Linux Weekly News Distributions page: > > http://lwn.net/Distributions/ > > There are two subcategories on that page that might be of interest to > you: small disk, and older Intel hardware. > > I'd also second the suggestion for Debian. You can get a basic > installation pretty small. > > Finally, I know that a group had been working on a single-CD > Fedora-based distro, but I can't remember the project name. an alternative might be http://www.rule-project.org/en/ the web page seems a bit dated though. From alan at clueserver.org Tue Feb 3 09:04:02 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan) Date: Tue Feb 3 09:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] SCO Lawsuit humor Message-ID: <1075827799.17224.12.camel@zontar.clueserver.org> http://www.linuxstolescocode.com/ Read the error message carefully. -- "Push that big, big granite sphere way up there from way down here! Gasp and sweat and pant and wheeze! Uh-oh! Feel momentum cease! Watch it tumble down and then roll the boulder up again!" - The story of Sisyphus by Dr. Zeus in Frazz 12/18/2003 From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Tue Feb 3 10:21:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? Message-ID: What is the best distro for MythTV? I have tried to run it on Fedora, but could not get the alsa sound stuff working. I am now running it on KnoppMyth. The problem with KnoppMyth is that the MythTV version is now out of date and if I want to upgrade I need to install QT so MythTV will compile. Can anyone recommend the ideal distro for running a MythTV box? Which distro defaults to using alsa sound rather than oss? _________________________________________________________________ Robert Anderson Sr. System Engineer Nike - Global Trade IT (503) 532-6803 d "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx From AthlonRob at axpr.net Tue Feb 3 10:28:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 08:19, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > What is the best distro for MythTV? I have tried to run it on Fedora, but could not get the alsa sound stuff working. I am now running it on KnoppMyth. The problem with KnoppMyth is that the MythTV version is now out of date and if I want to upgrade I need to install QT so MythTV will compile. Can anyone recommend the ideal distro for running a MythTV box? Which distro defaults to using alsa sound rather than oss? Oops, you forgot to wrap your lines. I would suggest Slackware. It's very simple to scale Slackware back greatly (my UML running Postfix, OpenVPN, OpenSSH, Apache, and BIND 9 takes up 68MB of HDD, and it is a bit bloated, I think). Slackware 9.1 ships with Alsa by default. For the most part, Slackware tends to stay fairly current with stable software out there. If not Slackware, Gentoo might be an easier base to start with. Yes, the install is more involved, but once the base system is installed, it is very easy to build upon. Rob From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 10:47:02 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> A co-worker has a student loan through Sallie Mae, but received an email that seemed suspicious to me. She was asked to sign in to the following web page, using her social security number as a password, which first caught my attention: http://www.salliemae.com I can see a student load using SSN, but what seemed strange is that the login screen boldly proclaims "SSL" and shows an image of a locked padlock. However the URL is http, not https, and the browser's lock icon is of course unlocked. I did a "whois salliemae.com" and also a whois on "salliemaenews.com" which was the address from some other emails she's received and believed to be legit. The whois shows the same contact info. Browsing to salliemaenews.com brings up some other page, epigraphx.com. Any of you security experts have any thoughts on this? If it is a scam, it looks like a lot of effort was put into it. -Scott __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From linux at chrisroberts.org Tue Feb 3 10:54:02 2004 From: linux at chrisroberts.org (chris) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200402031101.49748.linux@chrisroberts.org> if you look click the "secure login" link, you get a link to this site with the actual login: https://www.manageyourloans.com/MYL chris On Tuesday 03 February 2004 10:45 am, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > A co-worker has a student loan through Sallie Mae, but received an > email that seemed suspicious to me. > > She was asked to sign in to the following web page, using her social > security number as a password, which first caught my attention: > > http://www.salliemae.com > > I can see a student load using SSN, but what seemed strange is that the > login screen boldly proclaims "SSL" and shows an image of a locked > padlock. However the URL is http, not https, and the browser's lock > icon is of course unlocked. > > I did a "whois salliemae.com" and also a whois on "salliemaenews.com" > which was the address from some other emails she's received and > believed to be legit. The whois shows the same contact info. Browsing > to salliemaenews.com brings up some other page, epigraphx.com. > > Any of you security experts have any thoughts on this? If it is a scam, > it looks like a lot of effort was put into it. > > -Scott > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 3 10:54:05 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:54:05 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > She was asked to sign in to the following web page, using her social > security number as a password, which first caught my attention: > > http://www.salliemae.com Scott, Google for "sallie mae". The above domain is the first on the list. It's been several years since I paid off my fiancee's student loan so I don't remember the domain we used to check the status. I do know that they use the SSN as identification, though. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From heinlein at madboa.com Tue Feb 3 10:59:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? In-Reply-To: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > > What is the best distro for MythTV? I have tried to run it on > > Fedora, but could not get the alsa sound stuff working. I am now > > running it on KnoppMyth. The problem with KnoppMyth is that the > > MythTV version is now out of date and if I want to upgrade I need > > to install QT so MythTV will compile. Can anyone recommend the > > ideal distro for running a MythTV box? Which distro defaults to > > using alsa sound rather than oss? > > Oops, you forgot to wrap your lines. I've become completely dependent on pine's ability to fix unbroken or oddly broken paragraphs. The first paragraph above was reformatted with a simple Ctrl+J. I'd actually love to move to a GUI client, esp. one that supports unicode charsets, but I'm really loathe to give up the ability to produce nice-looking paragraphs quickly. Eduardo Chappa has a neat patchset that allows Ctrl+J to recognize even some seriously funky combos of quoting: http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/info/fillpara.html --Paul Heinlein From griffint at pobox.com Tue Feb 3 10:59:05 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Tue Feb 3 10:59:05 2004 Subject: [PLUG] direcpc network Message-ID: <20040203185811.GA12582@aracnet.com> This is slightly off topic, but the mail server involved runs Linux, so we're almost there. Does anyone here know how direcpc.com's networking works? I've got a user on directpc account making pop3s connections to her account on our mail server. Her IP address changes frequently. Is that because the home PC is on short, frequently changing DHCP leases? Or is the home PC on a private IP address and I'm just seeing the IP addresses of random NATing hosts? Thanks, Terry -- Terry Griffin http://www.blindchicken.com/~terryg/ From sandy at herring.org Tue Feb 3 11:01:02 2004 From: sandy at herring.org (Sandy Herring) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040203190051.GA5499@kippered.herring.org> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: [...] > I did a "whois salliemae.com" and also a whois on "salliemaenews.com" > which was the address from some other emails she's received and > believed to be legit. The whois shows the same contact info. Browsing > to salliemaenews.com brings up some other page, epigraphx.com. Scott, Note that `whois' for salliemae.com also shows... Record created on 27-Sep-1995 Most scams are fly-by-night. I think this is legit. Sandy -- Sandy Herring, RHCE o sandy at herring.org Peck of Pickled Pisces __ o http://herring.org/ UNIX or Web authoring questions? |\/ o\ o http://herring.org/finger.html ->http://herring.org/techie.html |/\__/ http://herring.org/pub-key.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikeraz at patch.com Tue Feb 3 11:03:01 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:03:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040203190218.GA31833@patch.com> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 10:45:53AM -0800, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > > Any of you security experts have any thoughts on this? If it is a scam, > it looks like a lot of effort was put into it. A lot less effort than paying speed freaks to piece together shredded documents to get SSNs from people. Since the NY Times wants $2.95 for an electronic repint of the article I suggest you visit http://www.multcolib.org/ click sequence Electronic Resources Databases A-Z N New York Times (library card number required) and Search for dumpster diving identity The story covers a guy who worked out of Eugene and paid speed freaks to piece together shredded tax returns to glean identity information. They found the process interesting... -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: In Pocataligo, Georgia, it is a violation for a woman over 200 pounds and attired in shorts to pilot or ride in an airplane. From heinlein at madboa.com Tue Feb 3 11:04:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > A co-worker has a student loan through Sallie Mae, but received an > email that seemed suspicious to me. > > She was asked to sign in to the following web page, using her social > security number as a password, which first caught my attention: The link is apparently legitimate (https to manageyourloans.com), but I suggest never passing an SSN over the Net. Have her call them (using a public 1-800 number or something) and request that they setup a password instead. --Paul Heinlein From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 11:05:02 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:05:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <200402031101.49748.linux@chrisroberts.org> Message-ID: <20040203190349.62417.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> That link didn't work in Mozilla 1.2.1 under Red Hat 9, it just dropped me back to the same non-secure page. I tried this in Mozilla 1.5 and IE on Windows XP, and it did work. I would think that a big financial company would have logins default to SSL for SSN's and passwords... -Scott --- chris wrote: > if you look click the "secure login" link, you get a link to this > site with > the actual login: > > https://www.manageyourloans.com/MYL > > chris > > On Tuesday 03 February 2004 10:45 am, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > > A co-worker has a student loan through Sallie Mae, but received an > > email that seemed suspicious to me. > > > > She was asked to sign in to the following web page, using her > social > > security number as a password, which first caught my attention: > > > > http://www.salliemae.com > > > > I can see a student load using SSN, but what seemed strange is that > the > > login screen boldly proclaims "SSL" and shows an image of a locked > > padlock. However the URL is http, not https, and the browser's lock > > icon is of course unlocked. > > > > I did a "whois salliemae.com" and also a whois on > "salliemaenews.com" > > which was the address from some other emails she's received and > > believed to be legit. The whois shows the same contact info. > Browsing > > to salliemaenews.com brings up some other page, epigraphx.com. > > > > Any of you security experts have any thoughts on this? If it is a > scam, > > it looks like a lot of effort was put into it. > > > > -Scott > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From ed at alcpress.com Tue Feb 3 11:23:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] identity theft [Was: Is this a scam?] In-Reply-To: <20040203190218.GA31833@patch.com> References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> <20040203190218.GA31833@patch.com> Message-ID: <1075836700.2627.81.camel@nat.alcpress.com> > > Any of you security experts have any thoughts on this? If it is a scam, > > it looks like a lot of effort was put into it. On a related note, the PANUG user group's February meeting focuses on "Computer insecurity, HIPAA, and Identity Theft". It's open to all and there's no charge to attend. The meeting is Thursday, February 19 at 7:00 pm at Novell's office in Tigard. Directions are on the PANUG web site (http://panug.org). Click on the Meetings link. The presentations are suitable for a non-technical audience. Space is limited. Anyone who wishes to attend must RSVP by sending a message to info at panug.org or calling ALC at 503-635-6370. Ed From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 3 11:25:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? In-Reply-To: References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > I've become completely dependent on pine's ability to fix unbroken or > oddly broken paragraphs. The first paragraph above was reformatted with a > simple Ctrl+J. I'd actually love to move to a GUI client, esp. one that > supports unicode charsets, but I'm really loathe to give up the ability to > produce nice-looking paragraphs quickly. Careful there, Paul. It all depends on the editor you use with pine. I use 'joe' and the paragraph reformat command is 'ctrl-k j'; ctrl-j deleted from the cursor to the end of the line. Wait'll you eyes get old; the readability of pine in a virtual terminal is far superior to any GUI MUA I've yet seen. And, since I cannot read CJK or other non-Roman alphabets in which mail comes to my inbox, simple ASCII does some of us quite well. :-) Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From ed at alcpress.com Tue Feb 3 11:32:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Tue Feb 3 11:32:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Printing on CD blanks Message-ID: <1075837243.2627.88.camel@nat.alcpress.com> I need to get up to speed on printing directly to CD blanks. Does anyone have experience with this? Ed From amcintosh at earthlink.net Tue Feb 3 12:01:02 2004 From: amcintosh at earthlink.net (Aaron) Date: Tue Feb 3 12:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution - x trouble In-Reply-To: <000a01c3ea07$1b7096e0$a1081ad8@bobby> Message-ID: <001f01c3ea90$35bffa70$53041ad8@bobby> Please disregard the last message. It looks like I didn't set my swap partition properly. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 7:38 PM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution - x trouble Hi everybody- Let me know if anyone can help. I decided to go for deli linux on my old fujitsu laptap. I can get the system installed fine. After I run through the xfree86 setup, starting the server fails and I get a message X11TransSocketUNIXConnect: Can't connect: errno = 111 Over and over again until it kills itself. I am setting it up as root, so it should'nt be a permissions error. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks! aaron -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Mike De La Mater Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:01 AM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: Re: [PLUG] Small distribution On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 06:10, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Red Beenie? Nope, it's either Red Beret or Red Kippah. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From russj at dimstar.net Tue Feb 3 13:16:02 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 3 13:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <20040203190349.62417.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040203190349.62417.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40200F57.7000207@dimstar.net> Scott Van Hoosen wrote: >That link didn't work in Mozilla 1.2.1 under Red Hat 9, it just dropped >me back to the same non-secure page. I tried this in Mozilla 1.5 and IE >on Windows XP, and it did work. > >I would think that a big financial company would have logins default to >SSL for SSN's and passwords... > > One of the misconceptions out there is that the lock must be locked before you put your password in. As long as the two systems negotiate the ssl session prior to the sensitive data being sent, then everything is fine. This can happen after the submit button is pressed. Russ From jeme at brelin.net Tue Feb 3 13:56:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Tue Feb 3 13:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? In-Reply-To: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > A co-worker has a student loan through Sallie Mae, but received an > email that seemed suspicious to me. > > She was asked to sign in to the following web page, using her social > security number as a password, which first caught my attention: > > http://www.salliemae.com Just grabbing the index.html with wget shows me that the thing is a big fat javascript that does lots of odd things that check for browser type and so on... Could be that the webserver is dishing out a framed version of your page (with just one big frame visible to you) and the internal frame is SSL while the outer frame is not encapsulated? I worked at a shop that had this problem... they were an online store and some customers were very concerned that they didn't get the little lock even though all transactions were secure. (I don't blame those customers at all and I'm quite frankly shocked that as many people used the site in that condition as did.) They fixed the problem. But anyway, it could also be that the login is on an insecure page, but the submit link is to a secure page. In that case, the SSL negotiation is done at connection time and the form submission should be secure. This seems to be the case on the version of the page served to wget. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Tue Feb 3 14:00:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:00:02 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > I've become completely dependent on pine's ability to fix unbroken or > oddly broken paragraphs. The first paragraph above was reformatted with > a simple Ctrl+J. I'd actually love to move to a GUI client, esp. one > that supports unicode charsets, but I'm really loathe to give up the > ability to produce nice-looking paragraphs quickly. See, ^J is just about the handiest thing in the world and when I asked a few weeks ago about mail processing with vi (since I'm hoping to use mutt+vi for mail soon), I was specifically hoping somebody could show me good methods for re-wrapping quoted text... especially with multiple/odd quoting schemes. Any takers? > Eduardo Chappa has a neat patchset that allows Ctrl+J to recognize even > some seriously funky combos of quoting: > > http://www.math.washington.edu/~chappa/pine/info/fillpara.html I'll look at this for sure. I end up re-wrapping by hand at least a couple of times a week. Thanks for the link. I LIKE pine, but I'm still trying to move to mutt for a real GPL MUA, better gpg interaction, and a more robust customization model. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Tue Feb 3 14:14:01 2004 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:14:01 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040203221302.GC22791@dalsemi.com> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 01:58:25PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > > I've become completely dependent on pine's ability to fix unbroken or > > oddly broken paragraphs. The first paragraph above was reformatted with > > a simple Ctrl+J. I'd actually love to move to a GUI client, esp. one > > that supports unicode charsets, but I'm really loathe to give up the > > ability to produce nice-looking paragraphs quickly. > > See, ^J is just about the handiest thing in the world and when I asked a > few weeks ago about mail processing with vi (since I'm hoping to use > mutt+vi for mail soon), I was specifically hoping somebody could show me > good methods for re-wrapping quoted text... especially with multiple/odd > quoting schemes. > > Any takers? I use this: !} perl -MText::Autoformat -e 'autoformat({all => 1});' It formats, renumbers, indents and can be told how to do or not to do any of those. Colin From heinlein at madboa.com Tue Feb 3 14:21:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:21:01 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: <20040203221302.GC22791@dalsemi.com> References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040203221302.GC22791@dalsemi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Colin Kuskie wrote: > I use this: > > !} perl -MText::Autoformat -e 'autoformat({all => 1});' > > It formats, renumbers, indents and can be told how to do or not to > do any of those. I used to do exactly that. The problem is that I run pine on a number of machines, and I can't automatically assume that Text::Autoformat is installed. I do agree, however, that Text::Autoformat >= Bread::Sliced :-) --Paul Heinlein From pem at nellump.net Tue Feb 3 14:24:02 2004 From: pem at nellump.net (Paul Mullen) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:24:02 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040203222235.GA27054@nellump.net> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 01:58:25PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > See, ^J is just about the handiest thing in the world and when I asked a > few weeks ago about mail processing with vi (since I'm hoping to use > mutt+vi for mail soon), I was specifically hoping somebody could show me > good methods for re-wrapping quoted text... especially with multiple/odd > quoting schemes. > > Any takers? Hmm. I thought the old "shift-V ... highlight text block ... gq" routine did this fairly well. It does for me, at least, but I'm not sure in my daily usage I've had to deal with any truly weird line-wrapping situations. I can't say with any real certainty how robust this method is. It's worth a try, at least. Next time you see a really funky e-mail message, open it in vim and see if the "gq" trick works for you. Paul From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Tue Feb 3 14:41:02 2004 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:41:02 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040203221302.GC22791@dalsemi.com> Message-ID: <20040203224036.GD22791@dalsemi.com> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 02:19:39PM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > > I used to do exactly that. The problem is that I run pine on a number > of machines, and I can't automatically assume that Text::Autoformat is > installed. And the machines probably all don't do something nice like automount your home directory. That's the one downside of Perl modules. > I do agree, however, that Text::Autoformat >= Bread::Sliced :-) Damian rocks. Have you played with Parse::RecDescent at all? Colin From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Tue Feb 3 14:44:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:44:02 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) Message-ID: I was actually hoping to spark a discussion on MythTV :( -Rob A > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Paul Heinlein > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:20 PM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) > > > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Colin Kuskie wrote: > > > I use this: > > > > !} perl -MText::Autoformat -e 'autoformat({all => 1});' > > > > It formats, renumbers, indents and can be told how to do or not to > > do any of those. > > I used to do exactly that. The problem is that I run pine on a number > of machines, and I can't automatically assume that Text::Autoformat is > installed. > > I do agree, however, that Text::Autoformat >= Bread::Sliced :-) > > --Paul Heinlein > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 3 14:52:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Java GUI Builders Message-ID: Is anyone here using a GUI builder for java that's equivalent to Glade for GTK+ and uses swing components? If so, I'd appreciate any recommendations you have. As an aside, I find it interesting that so many of the java tools (such as Eclipse and its plugins) appear to stress Winduhs or be developed under that OS rather than linux or solaris. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From heinlein at madboa.com Tue Feb 3 14:56:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Tue Feb 3 14:56:01 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: <20040203224036.GD22791@dalsemi.com> References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040203221302.GC22791@dalsemi.com> <20040203224036.GD22791@dalsemi.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Colin Kuskie wrote: > Damian rocks. Have you played with Parse::RecDescent at all? Not directly. I've been doing most config-type work in XML and haven't need to do any hairy parsing of late. It's one of those modules (like WWW::Mechanize) that I know is available should I be given an impossible task. :-) --Paul Heinlein From ehem at m5p.com Tue Feb 3 15:26:02 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Tue Feb 3 15:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] HTML to PostScript Conversion Message-ID: <200402032324.i13NOrgw050145@m5p.com> Anyone know how to change the formatting of PostScript output by various browsers? In particular I'd like to shrink the font and reduce the amount of whitespace produced. Most browsers allow you to change how they look on the screen, but that doesn't change how the output PostScript looks. -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From bderr at myrealbox.com Tue Feb 3 15:59:01 2004 From: bderr at myrealbox.com (Brian Derr) Date: Tue Feb 3 15:59:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text Message-ID: <20040203235809.GA31642@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> Hi folks, I'm fairly new to Perl and have been working on a small script. Thus far I've got it working perfectly but have one question, how do I remove text from a file? I am keeping a plain text file with records that are separated by a '\n\n'. How would I go about deleting a record? I tried getting help on #perl in freenode but no one responded so I thought I'd take it to my favorite LUG. :-) Brian -- "The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him." -- Nahum 1:7 KJV We are solar powered; we are powered by the Son. -- Doug Rowse, 2003 If God were small enough to fit into my head He wouldn't be big enough to worship. -- Brett Meador, 2002 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeme at brelin.net Tue Feb 3 16:09:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text In-Reply-To: <20040203235809.GA31642@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> References: <20040203235809.GA31642@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Brian Derr wrote: > I'm fairly new to Perl and have been working on a small script. Thus > far I've got it working perfectly but have one question, how do I remove > text from a file? I am keeping a plain text file with records that are > separated by a '\n\n'. How would I go about deleting a record? I tried > getting help on #perl in freenode but no one responded so I thought I'd > take it to my favorite LUG. :-) Um, context is important here. You're reading in a file then writing it out again? Then you delete it by not writing it. What kind of records are these? Have you considered using a SwissArmy Chainsaw type tool like DBD::CSV (this allows you to treat a flat file like a database and use SQL against it)? Details, details. oh, and `sed /pattern/d file` works pretty well, too. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From barryb at proaxis.com Tue Feb 3 16:31:01 2004 From: barryb at proaxis.com (Bill Barry) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] HTML to PostScript Conversion In-Reply-To: <200402032324.i13NOrgw050145@m5p.com> References: <200402032324.i13NOrgw050145@m5p.com> Message-ID: <20040204003054.GA10610@edge> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 03:24:53PM -0800, Elliott Mitchell wrote: > Anyone know how to change the formatting of PostScript output by various > browsers? > > In particular I'd like to shrink the font and reduce the amount of > whitespace produced. Most browsers allow you to change how they look on > the screen, but that doesn't change how the output PostScript looks. > I am guessing that what you want to do is convert postscript to HTML. HTML pages can be resized. Postscript files are mostly just fit for printing, For direct postscript to html converters, start here http://jeff.cs.mcgill.ca/~luc/PSto.html If it is not heavily formatted, you could use ps2ascii, then just wrap the ascii in the appropriate html. Bill Barry From sasha_romanosky at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 16:33:01 2004 From: sasha_romanosky at yahoo.com (Sasha Romanosky) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005601c3eab6$6d03f830$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> Or just grep (egrep) -v could work, depending on your actual need. sasha > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Jeme A Brelin > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:07 PM > To: PLUG > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text > > > > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Brian Derr wrote: > > I'm fairly new to Perl and have been working on a small > script. Thus > > far I've got it working perfectly but have one question, how do I > > remove text from a file? I am keeping a plain text file > with records > > that are separated by a '\n\n'. How would I go about deleting a > > record? I tried getting help on #perl in freenode but no > one responded > > so I thought I'd take it to my favorite LUG. :-) > > Um, context is important here. You're reading in a file then > writing it out again? Then you delete it by not writing it. > > What kind of records are these? Have you considered using a > SwissArmy Chainsaw type tool like DBD::CSV (this allows you > to treat a flat file like a database and use SQL against it)? > > Details, details. > > oh, and `sed /pattern/d file` works pretty well, too. > > J. > -- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme at brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plu> g > From robby at planetargon.com Tue Feb 3 16:35:03 2004 From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG vs. PLUG In-Reply-To: <401EAB67.7030201@commandprompt.com> References: <401EAB67.7030201@commandprompt.com> Message-ID: <40203DED.6010207@planetargon.com> Cliff Wells typed this on 02/02/2004 11:56 AM: > Dan Haskell wrote: > >> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Robby Russell wrote: >> >> >>> Dan Haskell typed this on 01/30/2004 01:44 PM: >>> >>> >>>> Well, looks like Robby is once again refusing to talk with us. Are >>>> we back >>>> to lawyer shopping? >>>> >> >> >> Robby's refusing to talk with me AND he's posting *private* email to the >> mailing list??? This is why this stupid argument has gone on for almost a >> year now - it is hard to have reasonable discussions with someone who >> refuses to be reasonable. >> >> >> >> > > How is it private email when it was cc'd to other people? And of > course, *you* are the reasonable one, not the person who has made every > change *and then some* that has been requested. It's this sort of > thinking that makes me believe you are perhaps a little on the left side > of the bell curve. > > Perhaps PLUG should find a different spokesperson and this argument > would come to an end as undoubtedly anyone else would see the issue has > already been resolved. Now please go back to watching Teletubbies or > whatever it is you do during recess. > > Cliff > Just drop it. The issue was acknowledged and we're taking steps to work on it. Dan and I have discussed this off list and he's agreed to sell PLUG to the evil dictators at PDXLUG for an undisclosed amount. We will be going public this Spring and you will all have a chance to purchase shares of this fine LUG. Anyone who doesn't purchase a share will be...well, we don't need to go there, but consequences will be had. Sincerely, Robby Future CEO and Benevolent Dictator of PDXLUG and soon to be PLUG http://www.pdxlug.org/ "the lug that keeps on giving..." From techmage at aracnet.com Tue Feb 3 16:38:01 2004 From: techmage at aracnet.com (Prutzer) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux classes In-Reply-To: <1075759754.870.14.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1075759754.870.14.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: <40203f76.789030@mail.aracnet.com> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:09:14 -0800, you wrote: >There was a thread a few weeks ago on PCC canceling Linux >training classes. Next week, on February 9 and 10, ALC is >offering a Linux Networking class that we will not cancel >even if I have to conduct it at my house. :-) > >You can get more information about it at http://alcpress.com >Click on the Schedule link. Note that ALC has a program where >unemployed people may attend at a substantially reduced amount, >which is paid once they secure a job. Contact ALC for details. > >Ed Sawicki > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug Thank You Ed, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make it, but it's on the list to get more info on. Thanks, Harry Who wants to be in the class, time and money permitting. Dont immanentize the eschaton From robby at planetargon.com Tue Feb 3 16:49:02 2004 From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell) Date: Tue Feb 3 16:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG Announcements for February 2004 Message-ID: <40204134.20504@planetargon.com> February 03, 2004 To All PLUG Employees, At the end of 2003, we announced several changes to the way we will work across our PLUG organization. I am writing today to provide an update on our progress and share additional information that will help us deliver our growth goals in 2004 and beyond. Over the past few months, we?ve examined how we can best organize to leverage PLUG?s and PDXLUG's relevant capabilities, resources and scale in the U.S. to drive growth and effectively address the current market reality for our customers and consumers. Based on our discussions to date, the following changes will take place in our organization over the next several months: ? Effective February 3, 2004, PLUG functions will continue to be part of the PLUG Leadership Team located at U.S. Headquarters, which will remain in Portland, Oregon. ? David Mandel has elected to retire in March 2004 after 10 years of service with the company. Jeme Brelin, VP Sales and Propaganda, will now assume responsibility for all PLUG Sales. Jeme will report to me as a member of the PLUG Leadership Team. ? Dan Haskel has elected to retire in November 2004 after 9 years of service with the company. In the interim, he will report to me, taking on a new role that involves providing assistance throughout the transition and support for special projects. Russell Senior will following along just because he would miss Dan. ? The following changes will also take effect immediately within our organization - PLUG will now be known as 'Portland Little Unit Group' - Medical Marijuana will be prescribed to all employees during the standard work day. - Employees under the age of 18 are now 18. - All members will purchase shares of PLUG when I make shares available. - Servers will be turned over to the respective owner, me. - Cliff Wells will be in charge of the Flame Dept In addition, we will be establishing a joint PLUG and PDXLUG working team to help us determine how best we can work together to leverage our combined capabilities going forward. The team will be led by TacoDog, reporting to myself and Cliff Wells. TacoDog will first assemble a team of senior leaders representing both PLUG and PDXLUG, and then hold a preliminary meeting in late February. The team will be tasked with developing recommendations and sharing their findings by July 2004. We will provide you with an update once these recommendations have been made. In the meantime, if you have any questions, I encourage you to reach out to your local PLUG leaders. As we begin the new year, reigniting growth remains our number one priority. I want to thank you for your commitment to our business and for remaining focused on achieving our growth goals. Best regards, Robby Russell President PLUG - 'Portland Little Unit Group' From bderr at myrealbox.com Tue Feb 3 17:06:01 2004 From: bderr at myrealbox.com (Brian Derr) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:06:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text In-Reply-To: <005601c3eab6$6d03f830$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> References: <005601c3eab6$6d03f830$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040204010547.GB31674@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 04:32:52PM -0800, Sasha Romanosky wrote: > Um, context is important here. You're reading in a file then > writing it out again? Then you delete it by not writing it. Well, unfortunately that will not work. I don't read it in then write it. I write to it and then read it in later. Rather than deleting I actually need to move the text to a different file. However, deleting and moving are basically synonymous from the point of view of the first file. > What kind of records are these? Have you considered using a > SwissArmy Chainsaw type tool like DBD::CSV (this allows you > to treat a flat file like a database and use SQL against it)? It is formatted like so: text .... text .... (there is no set number of lines, it could be from 1 to really big ;-) etc, etc So, what I want to happen is to take a record from file A and move it to file B. But have it removed from file A so that the next record is bumped up to where the record that just got moved used to be. Possible? Brian -- "The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him." -- Nahum 1:7 KJV We are solar powered; we are powered by the Son. -- Doug Rowse, 2003 If God were small enough to fit into my head He wouldn't be big enough to worship. -- Brett Meador, 2002 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From beattie at beattie-home.net Tue Feb 3 17:08:02 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG Announcements for February 2004 In-Reply-To: <40204134.20504@planetargon.com> References: <40204134.20504@planetargon.com> Message-ID: <1075856858.844.1.camel@kokopelli> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 19:47, Robby Russell wrote: > February 03, 2004 > > To All PLUG Employees, > What a wonderful example or the maturity of the PDXLUGers PLONK! -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 3 17:51:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Seeking XML/schema references Message-ID: I have an older edition of ORA's book on XML but I understand that schemas have taken over from DTDs in many XML languages. I want to use XML for data in my fuzzy modeling system. Can folks recommend a current book on XML and schemas as applicable to scientific use? Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From robby at planetargon.com Tue Feb 3 17:54:02 2004 From: robby at planetargon.com (Robby Russell) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG Announcements for February 2004 In-Reply-To: <1075856858.844.1.camel@kokopelli> References: <40204134.20504@planetargon.com> <1075856858.844.1.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: <402050A4.8070405@planetargon.com> Brian Beattie wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 19:47, Robby Russell wrote: > >>February 03, 2004 >> >>To All PLUG Employees, >> > > What a wonderful example or the maturity of the PDXLUGers EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY Brian Beattie is no longer an employee of PLUG. Sincerely, Robby Russell President PLUG - 'Portland Little Unit Group' From plug201 at jblack.org Tue Feb 3 17:55:02 2004 From: plug201 at jblack.org (J Black) Date: Tue Feb 3 17:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] InnoTech Message-ID: <1075859587.24978.48.camel@localhost> Will PLUG or any of its members/sponsors/affiliates have a presence at InnoTech 2004? (March 31, April 1) Their list of topics includes Open Source & Linux and numerous other topics we're interested in. See http://www.innotechor.com/ Technology Innovation Innovative Business Practices Digitization and IT of Healthcare Information Security Emerging Tech Clusters Wireless & Mobility Solutions Embedded Technologies - Smart Apparel >> Open Source & Linux Guidance Summit Micro2Nano & Biosciences Integrated e-Marketing Strategies Innovative NW Research & Tech Transfer IT Executive of The Year Awards Entrepreneurship & Capital Investments Disaster Recovery & Storage Solutions From russell-evans at qwest.net Tue Feb 3 18:33:02 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Tue Feb 3 18:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG Announcements for February 2004 In-Reply-To: <40204134.20504@planetargon.com> References: <40204134.20504@planetargon.com> Message-ID: <20040203183218.1503ea0a.russell-evans@qwest.net> On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 16:47:48 -0800 "Robby Russell" wrote: > - PLUG will now be known as 'Portland Little Unit Group' PLUG envy. Thank you Russell From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Tue Feb 3 20:51:01 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Tue Feb 3 20:51:01 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10519-41562@sneakemail.com> On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) Rob.Anderson2-at-nike.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > I was actually hoping to spark a discussion on MythTV :( > > -Rob A Rob: You should have asked about line wrapping, then! ;-) -- Steve From clifford.wells at comcast.net Tue Feb 3 20:54:02 2004 From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells) Date: Tue Feb 3 20:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG Announcements for February 2004 In-Reply-To: <1075856858.844.1.camel@kokopelli> References: <40204134.20504@planetargon.com> <1075856858.844.1.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: <1075870406.8081.51.camel@devilbox.devilnet.internal> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 17:07, Brian Beattie wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 19:47, Robby Russell wrote: > > February 03, 2004 > > > > To All PLUG Employees, > > > What a wonderful example or the maturity of the PDXLUGers Followed by an even better example of the lack of humor of certain PLUGers. > PLONK! Despite how impressed I was initially with your announcement, I felt somewhat sobered after reading this: http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_kill.html Cliff -- Edible birds uttering horrible cries -Coil From chris at maybe.net Tue Feb 3 21:30:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Tue Feb 3 21:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Seeking XML/schema references In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040204052959.GF14378@maybe.net> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 05:50:16PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > I have an older edition of ORA's book on XML but I understand that schemas > have taken over from DTDs in many XML languages. I want to use XML for data > in my fuzzy modeling system. > > Can folks recommend a current book on XML and schemas as applicable to > scientific use? There've been some good reviews of XML books on /., if I remember correctly. Regarding schema, I think it'd be good to survey your potential clients and colleagues to see what consensus they have. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From josh at emediatedesigns.com Tue Feb 3 22:24:01 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Tue Feb 3 22:24:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using YUM to install src rpms Message-ID: <2762.216.99.218.67.1075875756.squirrel@sautez.com> Hello all, I have built a new fedora 1 machine with SW RAID 5 and I'm quite happy with the install process. It was a very nice experience. Now I need to install the src packages for httpd as I need to recompile suexec to point to a different doc-base. I would like to you YUM as I have grown to like it. How do you tell YUM to go get the src SRPMS? I added the path to them in the /etc/yum.conf file but it still tells me that src file doesn't exist when I can actually see it. Thanks, Josh From baloo at ursine.ca Tue Feb 3 22:59:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 3 22:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? In-Reply-To: References: <1075833528.6691.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040204065815.GA22686@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 10:58:05AM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > I've become completely dependent on pine's ability to fix unbroken or > oddly broken paragraphs. The first paragraph above was reformatted > with a simple Ctrl+J. I'd actually love to move to a GUI client, esp. > one that supports unicode charsets, but I'm really loathe to give up > the ability to produce nice-looking paragraphs quickly. I use emacs for an editor in mutt, I like how mutt preserves line wraps when possible, but warns you by putting a red plus in column 80 and continuing on the next line. It's not word wrap, but at least you don't have to scroll sideways. Emacs is handy, meta-Q usually figures out what's going on and rewraps properly, preserving indents on quotes, even. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAIJgHUzgNqloQMwcRAsXcAJ91fnnmAhwbtZLqcGKt1xqLxRsBMwCgsRud B1z+yRA8TBeVG42VbirzGkQ= =j1ab -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kevintheobald at vzavenue.net Tue Feb 3 23:18:01 2004 From: kevintheobald at vzavenue.net (Kevin Theobald) Date: Tue Feb 3 23:18:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CNN blows it again Message-ID: <16416.40354.294951.815326@vzavenue.net> I was browsing cnn.com and saw something in their Technology section about MyDoom. Someone basically asked someone from McAfee for information about the virus. Although they did mention (in a roundabout way) that MyDoom is a Windows virus, the last answer from McAfee basically claimed it was "very difficult" to write secure software because you'd have to get rid of most capabilities of a PC. Of course, McAfee doesn't want anyone to know about secure alternatives, do they? I sent a letter to CNN pointing out the error. (In the past, I've flamed them for their habit of saying "your PC is in danger" from the latest virus without pointing out that only MS machines are vulnerable. I've noticed they've improved; the last time I wrote a letter, I noticed that the next virus report on CNN explicitly said it only affected people using Microsoft Windows.) Kevin From david.fleck at mchsi.com Wed Feb 4 04:33:01 2004 From: david.fleck at mchsi.com (David Fleck) Date: Wed Feb 4 04:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text In-Reply-To: <20040204010547.GB31674@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> References: <005601c3eab6$6d03f830$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> <20040204010547.GB31674@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> Message-ID: <20040204063010.C47130@grond.sourballs.org> On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Brian Derr wrote: > It is formatted like so: > > > text .... > text .... > (there is no set number of lines, it could be from 1 to really big ;-) > > > etc, etc > > > So, what I want to happen is to take a record from file A and move it to > file B. But have it removed from file A so that the next record is > bumped up to where the record that just got moved used to be. Possible? Absolutely. But first: How will the script know which records to move? Do you want to do this interactively, or as an unattended process? -- David Fleck david.fleck at mchsi.com From mikeraz at patch.com Wed Feb 4 06:27:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Wed Feb 4 06:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text - more clarification In-Reply-To: <20040204010547.GB31674@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> References: <005601c3eab6$6d03f830$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> <20040204010547.GB31674@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> Message-ID: <20040204142537.GB8722@patch.com> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 08:05:47PM -0500, Brian Derr wrote: > > It is formatted like so: > > > text .... > (there is no set number of lines, it could be from 1 to really big ;-) > > So, what I want to happen is to take a record from file A and move it to > file B. But have it removed from file A so that the next record is > bumped up to where the record that just got moved used to be. Possible? > To be sure we understand what you're doing I'm offering up this explanation for you to verify or correct. Some process writes to FileA, records are Later on you'll read FileA, note that there is something in that indicates the current record should move to FileB, write that record to FileB and remove it from FileA. If that's true then questions need asking: Is there any chance that will contain blank lines and/or timestamps? What prevents the data from being filtered in the first place and put into FileA or FileB as necessary? Is FileA being written with new records on a continuous basis? i.e. are you blocked from putting a lock on it to do an edit in place? -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: All diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means. -- Chou En Lai From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Feb 4 06:43:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed Feb 4 06:43:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Seeking XML/schema references In-Reply-To: <20040204052959.GF14378@maybe.net> References: <20040204052959.GF14378@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > There've been some good reviews of XML books on /., if I remember > correctly. Thanks, Chris. > Regarding schema, I think it'd be good to survey your potential clients > and colleagues to see what consensus they have. Not applicable here. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Feb 4 06:52:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed Feb 4 06:52:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CNN blows it again In-Reply-To: <16416.40354.294951.815326@vzavenue.net> References: <16416.40354.294951.815326@vzavenue.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Kevin Theobald wrote: > I was browsing cnn.com and saw something in their Technology section > about MyDoom. Someone basically asked someone from McAfee for > information about the virus. Although they did mention (in a > roundabout way) that MyDoom is a Windows virus, the last answer from > McAfee basically claimed it was "very difficult" to write secure > software because you'd have to get rid of most capabilities of a PC. The Economist explictly noted the virus is limited to Microsoft OSes. > Of course, McAfee doesn't want anyone to know about secure > alternatives, do they? Heh-heh! > I noticed that the next virus report on CNN explicitly said it only > affected people using Microsoft Windows.) I, too, see signs that the mainstream news media are beginning to understand. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From wcooley at nakedape.cc Wed Feb 4 07:44:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Wed Feb 4 07:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Administrivia - Users unsubscribed Message-ID: <1075909396.5695.154.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Dear PLUG, As of 07:30, 4 Feb 2004, posts from Robby Russell and Cliff Wells to the PLUG mailing list have been administratively blocked. This action was taken when, in the judgement of the mailing list administrators, their behavior crossed the line between advocacy of a particular point of view and abuse. Those who wish to object or express an opinion on the propriety of this action, please direct those comments to the plug-talk mailing list. The mailing list administrators will rely heavily on whatever consensus emerges there. Please do not post follow-ups to this list. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Cisco Support & Sales http://nakedape.cc/r/cisco * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Feb 4 08:31:02 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed Feb 4 08:31:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text References: <20040203235809.GA31642@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> Message-ID: <86broe24nz.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Jeme" == Jeme A Brelin writes: Jeme> What kind of records are these? Have you considered using a SwissArmy Jeme> Chainsaw type tool like DBD::CSV (this allows you to treat a flat file Jeme> like a database and use SQL against it)? There's very few places where I'd even consider using DBD::CSV any more, now that DBD::SQLite is available. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From plug201 at jblack.org Wed Feb 4 08:35:03 2004 From: plug201 at jblack.org (J Black) Date: Wed Feb 4 08:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: <1075912384.27119.10.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 20:25, Paul Heinlein wrote: ... > Finally, I know that a group had been working on a single-CD > Fedora-based distro, but I can't remember the project name. Here are two single-CD distributions: Peanut Linux, which is Red Hat/RPM-based Lorma Linux, which is Fedora/RPM based. I'm not recommending either of these for a 24-MB system since they are both "full featured". Peanut still fits in 1 GB I think. I use Lorma Linux 4.0 on my 400 MHz 96MB laptop; it comes with KDE, Mozilla, OpenOffice.org, Evolution, development tools, etc., which are sure to push your install past 1 GB. The install procedure lets you choose which components you want to install, though. - Jesse From bhoran at hexdev.com Wed Feb 4 08:39:02 2004 From: bhoran at hexdev.com (Brian Horan) Date: Wed Feb 4 08:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: <1075912384.27119.10.camel@localhost> References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> <1075912384.27119.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1075912864.19964.5.camel@CatDog.wegcash.com> picobsd On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 11:33, J Black wrote: > On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 20:25, Paul Heinlein wrote: > ... > > Finally, I know that a group had been working on a single-CD > > Fedora-based distro, but I can't remember the project name. > > Here are two single-CD distributions: > Peanut Linux, which is Red Hat/RPM-based > Lorma Linux, which is Fedora/RPM based. > > I'm not recommending either of these for a 24-MB system since they are > both "full featured". Peanut still fits in 1 GB I think. I use Lorma > Linux 4.0 on my 400 MHz 96MB laptop; it comes with KDE, Mozilla, > OpenOffice.org, Evolution, development tools, etc., which are sure to > push your install past 1 GB. The install procedure lets you choose > which components you want to install, though. > > - Jesse > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Brian Horan From plugcensoredme at tearitalldown.com Wed Feb 4 08:50:03 2004 From: plugcensoredme at tearitalldown.com ((not) Robby Russell) Date: Wed Feb 4 08:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Censoring your own CEO? Message-ID: <4021227D.7000208@tearitalldown.com> I'd like to formally apologize to all those who are just innocent bystanders in this mess. I'd then like to throw up a middle finger to those who can't take a joke. If you consider that "crossing the line" than you kids need to lighten up a bit. For a list that allows discussions to go on and on with personal attacks, yet ban people for making satire-based posts...well, it's just pretty sad. Jeme, I am glad that you have found a mailing list in which you can express yourself and the EVIL, fascists powers that be.. don't censor you. censored on PLUG (you could be next...), -Robby Russell p.s. if you'd like to discuss anything (aside from the over-discussed name issue) feel free to email me. also... here is my layoff announcement: Associates: This email is to inform you that today approximately 200 PLUG associates primarily in the Portland chapter were notified that their positions are being eliminated. Your support and consideration is also requested as we work together to help these valued associates through this difficult transition. The ongoing slump in the economy, the completion of several major projects and the dip in technology spending has continued to negatively impact our financial performance. Although we are encouraged by an upturn in market and proposal activity over the last several months, there is still excess capacity for the chargeable work being forecast for the foreseeable future. To remain a competitive and financially healthy practice, it was necessary to eliminate these PLUG positions. At the same time, it is important both to the associates affected and to the clients they support that there is a period for the effective transition and completion of project work. As a result, those associates affected have been given advance notice that their positions are being eliminated. These notices range from two weeks to 3 months depending on project completion estimates. While there will be no list of affected associates distributed, those associates who have an immediate need to know are being contacted by the resource management team as part of the transition planning. Many of you will learn about affected colleagues over the weeks through routine contact. When you do, please join me in wishing each of the individuals the very best in their next endeavors and thanking them for their professionalism, their many contributions and for the transitions they are supporting. Robby Russell CEO PLUG - Portland Little Unit Group -- "you have 8 fingers, i have 12" From bsr at spek.org Wed Feb 4 09:24:01 2004 From: bsr at spek.org (Brent Rieck) Date: Wed Feb 4 09:24:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mutt question Message-ID: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> Can mutt be made to display html email inline? thanks, Brent From wcooley at nakedape.cc Wed Feb 4 09:30:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Wed Feb 4 09:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mutt question In-Reply-To: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> References: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> Message-ID: <1075915770.5695.201.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 09:22, Brent Rieck wrote: > Can mutt be made to display html email inline? I don't think so, but it can be made to use 'links' or other text-mode user-agents. I know that's not as a nice, but c'est la vie. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Sophos Anti-Virus Reseller http://nakedape.cc/r/sav * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dmandel at pdxLinux.org Wed Feb 4 10:17:06 2004 From: dmandel at pdxLinux.org (dmandel at pdxLinux.org) Date: Wed Feb 4 10:17:06 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ANNOUNCEMENT: February PLUG Meeting Message-ID: Sorry for the late announcement, but MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT The Portland Linux/Unix Group will meet 7 PM Thursday February 5, 2003 at Portland State University in the Smith Memorial Center Room 298 On the block bounded by SW Montgomery, SW Broadway (7th), SW Harrison, and SW Park (9th) ********************************************************** PRESENTATION User Mode Linux (Running Linux under Linux) by Chris Jantzen ********************************************************** Agenda: 7:00 - 7:30 Business We will discuss the status of our ongoing projects including the monthly hands on clinics, PLUG for Education, etc. 7:30 - 8:30 Presentation See above 9:00 - ... Beer The Lucky Labrador Brewing Company 915 SE Hawthorne David Mandel Chief Activist Portland Linux/Unix Group 560 SE Alexander Corvallis, Oregon 97333 (541) 684-4644 at work (541) 730-5285 mobile dmandel at pdxLinux.org P.S. The Mid Willamette Valley Linux Users Group meets at Oregon State University (generally Owen Hall room 101) on the first Tuesday of the month. See http://www.mwvlug.org/ for details. P.S. The Salem Linux Users Group is renewing itself. See http://www.salemlug.org for details. P.S. The Eugene Linux Users Group meets regularly. See http://www.euglug.org for details. ====================================================================== David Mandel, Instructor http://www.PioneerPacific.edu Other Affiliations David Mandel http://www.DavidMandel.com Portland Linux/Unix Group http://pdxLinux.org LinuxFund http://LinuxFund.org ====================================================================== From davemo51 at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 10:27:02 2004 From: davemo51 at hotmail.com (D M o r r i s o n) Date: Wed Feb 4 10:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Is this a scam? References: <20040203184553.25132.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> <200402031101.49748.linux@chrisroberts.org> Message-ID: It's legit. Both sites take you to the same place, I use them to view and pay my student loans. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [PLUG] Is this a scam? if you look click the "secure login" link, you get a link to this site with the actual login: https://www.manageyourloans.com/MYL chris On Tuesday 03 February 2004 10:45 am, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > A co-worker has a student loan through Sallie Mae, but received an > email that seemed suspicious to me. > > She was asked to sign in to the following web page, using her social > security number as a password, which first caught my attention: > > http://www.salliemae.com > > I can see a student load using SSN, but what seemed strange is that the > login screen boldly proclaims "SSL" and shows an image of a locked > padlock. However the URL is http, not https, and the browser's lock > icon is of course unlocked. > > I did a "whois salliemae.com" and also a whois on "salliemaenews.com" > which was the address from some other emails she's received and > believed to be legit. The whois shows the same contact info. Browsing > to salliemaenews.com brings up some other page, epigraphx.com. > > Any of you security experts have any thoughts on this? If it is a scam, > it looks like a lot of effort was put into it. > > -Scott > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From jblack at jblack.org Wed Feb 4 10:27:07 2004 From: jblack at jblack.org (J Black) Date: Wed Feb 4 10:27:07 2004 Subject: [PLUG] InnoTech Message-ID: <1075857749.24926.27.camel@localhost> Will PLUG or any of its members/sponsors/affiliates have a presence at InnoTech 2004? (March 31, April 1) Their list of topics includes Open Source & Linux and numerous other topics we're interested in. See http://www.innotechor.com/ Technology Innovation Innovative Business Practices Digitization and IT of Healthcare Information Security Emerging Tech Clusters Wireless & Mobility Solutions Embedded Technologies - Smart Apparel >> Open Source & Linux Guidance Summit Micro2Nano & Biosciences Integrated e-Marketing Strategies Innovative NW Research & Tech Transfer IT Executive of The Year Awards Entrepreneurship & Capital Investments Disaster Recovery & Storage Solutions From ed at alcpress.com Wed Feb 4 10:36:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Wed Feb 4 10:36:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] InnoTech In-Reply-To: <1075859587.24978.48.camel@localhost> References: <1075859587.24978.48.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1075920252.2070.168.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 17:53, J Black wrote: > Will PLUG or any of its members/sponsors/affiliates have a presence at > InnoTech 2004? Possibly. They're still up in the air as to the topics they'd like to present. > (March 31, April 1) Their list of topics includes Open > Source & Linux and numerous other topics we're interested in. See > http://www.innotechor.com/ > > Technology Innovation > Innovative Business Practices > Digitization and IT of Healthcare > Information Security > Emerging Tech Clusters > Wireless & Mobility Solutions > Embedded Technologies - Smart Apparel > >> Open Source & Linux Guidance Summit > Micro2Nano & Biosciences > Integrated e-Marketing Strategies > Innovative NW Research & Tech Transfer > IT Executive of The Year Awards > Entrepreneurship & Capital Investments > Disaster Recovery & Storage Solutions > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From barryb at proaxis.com Wed Feb 4 12:22:02 2004 From: barryb at proaxis.com (Bill Barry) Date: Wed Feb 4 12:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mutt question In-Reply-To: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> References: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> Message-ID: <20040204202136.GA3932@edge> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 09:22:36AM -0800, Brent Rieck wrote: > Can mutt be made to display html email inline? > You can use lynx (and links) to strip out the text from the html and display it with the mutt pager with the following two changes in /etc/mutt/Muttrc or ~/.muttrc put auto_view text/html in /etc/mailcap or ~/.mailcap text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -dump -force_html '%s'; copiousoutput; description=HTML Text; nametemplate=%s.html This works fine for me. If you want a more graphical view, I believe you can also pass the html to a browser for display. and that would probably be setup similarly with a different mailcap entry. Bill Barry From ehem at m5p.com Wed Feb 4 12:39:02 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 4 12:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: PLUG Announcements for February 2004 In-Reply-To: <20040204142702.6747.97556.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <200402042037.i14KbosH063256@m5p.com> > From: Robby Russell > =B7 David Mandel has elected to retire in March 2004 after 10 years of=20 > service with the company. Jeme Brelin, VP Sales and Propaganda, will now=20 > assume responsibility for all PLUG Sales. Jeme will report to me as a=20 > member of the PLUG Leadership Team. Thank you, I'll wait for word from him. If this is untrue I'd be *very* seriously concerned about the possibility of legal action. > - Cliff Wells will be in charge of the Flame Dept You seem to be doing an admirable job of leading it, why turn over the responsibility. Certainly CW writes more flames, but he hasn't done nearly the job of igniting flame wars; that is what the lead does. I find your message very insulting. I greatly dislike using killfiles since key points might once in a while emerge, but you're testing that stance and I would prefer not to fail. -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From bsr at spek.org Wed Feb 4 13:36:02 2004 From: bsr at spek.org (Brent Rieck) Date: Wed Feb 4 13:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mutt question In-Reply-To: <20040204202136.GA3932@edge> References: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> <20040204202136.GA3932@edge> Message-ID: <40216578.8020008@spek.org> Bill Barry wrote: > You can use lynx (and links) to strip out the text > from the html and display it with the mutt pager > with the following two changes Thanks! That works fairly well. --Brent From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Wed Feb 4 13:43:01 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Wed Feb 4 13:43:01 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) Message-ID: For those interested, I did find a great solution. I followed the instructions here... http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/ I'm running it on a Dell 400sc, P4 2.4Ghz, 640M RAM. I'm using a V-Stream capture/tuner/remote card with the bttv driver and an nVidia card with TV out. Everything is working great. Now I just need to either run a cat 5 cable from my office (upstairs) to my living room (downstairs), or install and configure a wireless network card. -Rob A > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Steve Bonds > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:50 PM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: RE: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) > > > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) > Rob.Anderson2-at-nike.com > |PDX Linux| wrote: > > > I was actually hoping to spark a discussion on MythTV :( > > > > -Rob A > > Rob: > > You should have asked about line wrapping, then! ;-) > > -- Steve > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 4 13:57:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 4 13:57:01 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075931766.7152.61.camel@dell.linux.box> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 13:42, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > Everything is working great. Now I just need to either run a cat 5 cable from my office (upstairs) to my living room (downstairs), or install and configure a wireless network card. Wifi isn't fast enough... well, G might be, but B definitely is not. I suppose it is fast enough if you're just watching a recorded video. But skipping through commercials (fast-forwarding in chunks of 10 or 30 seconds) on a video encoded at 800K saturates the connection in my experience. Note, I'm not using MythTV, I'm using mencoder and mplayer. I would definitely suggest going the CAT5 route if you plan on doing anything other than plain old controlless streaming. Rob From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 4 14:02:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 4 14:02:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync Message-ID: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Ok, so I'm trying to switch to rsync. I have a server running on a machine named apollo. This is under Fedora so it runs under xinet and I created a file /etc/rsyncd.conf, which it appears to be reading. I'd like to create (a what, a share , a block) from my home directory, /home/me. I cannot do this. However, I can get things to work with a couple of subdirectories. So there is something it doesn't like about /home/me. AFIK, all uid,gid are of me. There may be some symbolic links in lower directories. rsync apollo::home gives the following on the server: 2004/02/04 13:52:25 [16651] rsync on home from zeus.spears.org (10.0.1.17) 2004/02/04 13:52:25 [16651] push_dir .: Permission denied (3) 2004/02/04 13:52:25 [16651] rsync error: errors selecting input/output files, dirs (code 3) at main.c(351) Anyone, but especially Zot, who talked me into this. -- Bill Spears From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 4 14:14:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 4 14:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Ok, so I'm trying to switch to rsync. I have a server running on a > machine named apollo. This is under Fedora so it runs under xinet > and I created a file /etc/rsyncd.conf, which it appears to be > reading. This is a bit tangental, but the only reason to run rsync in server mode is to allow for anonymous access. If you or other local users are the only ones to use rsync, I'd just rely on rsync over ssh. -- Paul Heinlein From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Wed Feb 4 14:28:01 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Wed Feb 4 14:28:01 2004 Subject: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) Message-ID: Actually, My Myth box will be it's own backend server for video. So the network connectivity is only for downloading the program guide, weather info, etc. Also for uploading pictures, mp3s, and small video files via samba share. -Rob A > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of AthlonRob > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:56 PM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: RE: Linewrapping (was Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV?) > > > On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 13:42, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > > > Everything is working great. Now I just need to either run > a cat 5 cable from my office (upstairs) to my living room > (downstairs), or install and configure a wireless network card. > > Wifi isn't fast enough... well, G might be, but B definitely is not. > > I suppose it is fast enough if you're just watching a recorded video. > But skipping through commercials (fast-forwarding in chunks > of 10 or 30 > seconds) on a video encoded at 800K saturates the connection in my > experience. > > Note, I'm not using MythTV, I'm using mencoder and mplayer. I would > definitely suggest going the CAT5 route if you plan on doing anything > other than plain old controlless streaming. > > Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 4 15:37:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 4 15:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1075937800.12706.33.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 14:13, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > Ok, so I'm trying to switch to rsync. I have a server running on a > > machine named apollo. This is under Fedora so it runs under xinet > > and I created a file /etc/rsyncd.conf, which it appears to be > > reading. > > This is a bit tangental, but the only reason to run rsync in server > mode is to allow for anonymous access. If you or other local users are > the only ones to use rsync, I'd just rely on rsync over ssh. > > -- Paul Heinlein I certainly misunderstood that. I assumed it was like any other client server situation. If it's local, why do I need ssh. I'll kill the daemon and see what get. From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 4 15:40:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 4 15:40:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: <1075937800.12706.33.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075937800.12706.33.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1075937941.12706.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 15:36, Bill Spears wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 14:13, Paul Heinlein wrote: > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > Ok, so I'm trying to switch to rsync. I have a server running on a > > > machine named apollo. This is under Fedora so it runs under xinet > > > and I created a file /etc/rsyncd.conf, which it appears to be > > > reading. > > > > This is a bit tangental, but the only reason to run rsync in server > > mode is to allow for anonymous access. If you or other local users are > > the only ones to use rsync, I'd just rely on rsync over ssh. > > > > -- Paul Heinlein > > I certainly misunderstood that. I assumed it was like any other client > server situation. If it's local, why do I need ssh. I'll kill the daemon > and see what get. > Well, that didn't work. I don't know how to run it over ssh. From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 4 15:46:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 4 15:46:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: <1075937941.12706.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075937800.12706.33.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075937941.12706.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Well, that didn't work. I don't know how to run it over ssh. Sorry. I was a bit cryptic. If you wanted to mirror /home/you that sits on a remote host to your local host, you might do something like rsync -av --dry-run -e ssh remote.host:/home/you /home By all means, use rsync's -n (--dry-run) switch when first running rsync. It'll tell you what it wants to do without actually doing it. Once you're satisfied with rsync's expected behavior, then remove -n (or --dry-run). -- Paul Heinlein From jeme at brelin.net Wed Feb 4 15:48:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Wed Feb 4 15:48:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: <1075937941.12706.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075937800.12706.33.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075937941.12706.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Well, that didn't work. I don't know how to run it over ssh. Did you read the manpage? It's like any other "r" command. It'll take a remote location for either source or destination, then open a connection to the remote host via the transparent remote shell (rsh equivalent) you specify for execution on the far end. You can set which rsh to use by either as an argument to the -e option to rsync itself or by setting the RSYNC_RSH environment variable. So you might do this: rsync -e /usr/bin/ssh /path/to/local/file user at remote_host:/path/to/remote/file And that's the same as this: RSYNC_RSH="/usr/bin/ssh" rsync /path/to/local/file user at remote_host:/path/to/remote/file Dig? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From metallurgy88 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 16:15:03 2004 From: metallurgy88 at yahoo.com (Travel Specilist A) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RedHat Enterprise Linux Message-ID: <20040205001417.61483.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, All: I believe there must be some people had asked this question before, but I can not find it from PLUG Archives. My question is: is it legal to copy or download RedHat Enterprise Linux like we did for Redhat Linux before? If yes, do anybody know where to download it or anyone can make a copy for me? Thanks a lot! Yang AirShopping.com is a full service travel agency. Customer satisfaction is our highest priority. We speak English, Chinese. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jack at bonyari.com Wed Feb 4 16:36:01 2004 From: jack at bonyari.com (Jack Morgan) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:36:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ANNOUNCEMENT: February PLUG Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040205004814.GA4415@saitama.bonyari.com> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 10:16:23AM -0800, dmandel at pdxLinux.org wrote: > > Sorry for the late announcement, but Actually, It would be nice to get these announcements more then one or two day(s) before the event. I'm sure you send an announcement as a remind and that one could easily look on the PLUG web site. I for one could benefit from a reminder 4 - 5 days before hand. Just a suggestion... -- Jack Morgan pub 1024D/620F545F 2002-06-18 Jack Morgan Key fingerprint = B343 94EB 0658 E19B D91D 7EA5 15E1 FD24 620F 545F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Wed Feb 4 16:38:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RedHat Enterprise Linux Message-ID: The binaries are not available for download, but the source is... http://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/enterprise/ I don't know about the legal mumbo jumbo. -Rob A -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Travel Specilist A Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:14 PM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG] RedHat Enterprise Linux Hi, All: I believe there must be some people had asked this question before, but I can not find it from PLUG Archives . My question is: is it legal to copy or download RedHat Enterprise Linux like we did for Redhat Linux before? If yes, do anybody know where to download it or anyone can make a copy for me? Thanks a lot! Yang AirShopping.com is a full service travel agency. Customer satisfaction is our highest priority. We speak English, Chinese. _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstevens at gencom.us Wed Feb 4 16:41:02 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <20040205001417.61483.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040205001417.61483.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1075940298.2838.44.camel@sparticus> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 16:14, Travel Specilist A wrote: > Hi, All: Hiya! > I believe there must be some people had asked this question > before, but I can not find it from PLUG Archives. Impressive! > > My question is: is it legal to copy or download RedHat Enterprise > Linux like we did for Redhat Linux before? Here's the scoop, accoding to this link: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/archive/31/2004/01/1/125369 "According to the RedHat Enterprise Linux ES 3.0 "End User Licesnse Agreement" - everything within the RedHat disks are freely distributable except the "RedHat" name and the "ShadowMan" and "RedHat" pictures... In other words RedHat's branding. I read the EULA, and the great thing here is the RedHat EULA goes so far as to tell you which of the few RPM files need to be changed for the entire thing to be distributable. For this reason, Whitebox is a great way to get the software, without buying the "name"." So as long as long as you steer clear of the "non GPL'd" RPM's and the RedHat trademark, you may download to your heart's delight. > If yes, do anybody know where to download it or anyone can make a copy > for me? > It just so happens that someone has already removed the "non GPL" components for you. See the link for download details but here's a quick link: http://whiteboxlinux.org/download.html I hope this helps! > > Thanks a lot! You betcha! Best, -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From amunk at pdx.edu Wed Feb 4 16:42:02 2004 From: amunk at pdx.edu (Andrew Munkres) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <20040205001417.61483.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040205001417.61483.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16417.36157.234442.848103@pdx.edu> Travel Specilist A writes: > My question is: is it legal to copy or download RedHat Enterprise Linux like we did for Redhat Linux before? Yes, except for the Red Hat logos. > If yes, do anybody know where to download it or anyone can make a copy for me? http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ From cstevens at gencom.us Wed Feb 4 16:43:04 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:43:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RedHat Enterprise Linux In-Reply-To: <20040205001417.61483.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040205001417.61483.qmail@web14605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1075940461.2838.46.camel@sparticus> Just for fun, there's a review of RHEL 3 here: http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=8989/ur0402c/ Enjoy! On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 16:14, Travel Specilist A wrote: > Hi, All: > > I believe there must be some people had asked this question > before, but I can not find it from PLUG Archives. > > My question is: is it legal to copy or download RedHat Enterprise > Linux like we did for Redhat Linux before? > > If yes, do anybody know where to download it or anyone can make a copy > for me? > > Thanks a lot! > > Yang > > AirShopping.com is a full service travel agency. > Customer satisfaction is our highest priority. > We speak English, Chinese. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From baloo at ursine.ca Wed Feb 4 16:50:03 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CNN blows it again In-Reply-To: References: <16416.40354.294951.815326@vzavenue.net> Message-ID: <20040205004941.GB6925@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 06:50:40AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > I, too, see signs that the mainstream news media are beginning to > understand. Just an observation, but has anybody thought for a moment why we collectively trust about the only industry in existence that if it were a person, would be the dumbest blond on the planet, to keep us "informed?" - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAIZMlUzgNqloQMwcRApvNAKDb8X6YbWdSFoUtPm7oBwbQ7WNzIQCfRjmz 7ulQFJ0zjyzP3d76TJYtUlk= =pQ8b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Wed Feb 4 16:53:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mutt question In-Reply-To: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> References: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> Message-ID: <20040205005218.GC6925@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 09:22:36AM -0800, Brent Rieck wrote: > Can mutt be made to display html email inline? A better question would be, "Is there any way to fix messages from broken HTML MUA's?" in which the easy answer would be, "Yes, have procmail pipe HTML parts through lynx," but this depends on the sender having a MUA that isn't so broken as to set the wrong MIME type. Though about the only people who still has software that can't get it at least partly right are spammers, so you can decide if not properly parsing spam is exactly a loss... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAIZPCUzgNqloQMwcRAnnaAJ4wKfEGxdXsSAN4yfOFndoGppOllACg1uz+ tOFR0gM+V0D2E8v/iv7gz/o= =NP2K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Wed Feb 4 16:54:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:54:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mutt question In-Reply-To: <20040204202136.GA3932@edge> References: <40212A5C.2040509@spek.org> <20040204202136.GA3932@edge> Message-ID: <20040205005327.GD6925@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 12:21:36PM -0800, Bill Barry wrote: > in /etc/mutt/Muttrc or ~/.muttrc put > auto_view text/html If you're not the only person that uses that system, it may be better to use ~/.muttrc. Generally, it's safer to only change your local version of the configs: You can always go back to a known working configuration just by deleting yours. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAIZQHUzgNqloQMwcRArg0AJ9IrptslrYeyXg3j+9HZGUttaCASQCguv2C XlOO4FkFOs/s7cMj1Oyjc9M= =PeFZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From platypus at mtwi.net Wed Feb 4 18:07:01 2004 From: platypus at mtwi.net (Colleen Dick) Date: Wed Feb 4 18:07:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] htauth again In-Reply-To: <20030718162637.GA27629@net.orst.edu> References: <1058546736.8979.37.camel@sparticus> <20030718162637.GA27629@net.orst.edu> Message-ID: <4021922B.1070800@mtwi.net> I protected an admin directory with .htaccess. worked fine. but..... Now I want the admin directory login to run over SSL so the admin password does not go on the wire in cleartext. This server seems to accept https connections and seems to have a certificate installed. I did not set it up, so, no guarantees that all OK. According to what I read you use SSLRequireSSL to force it to use SSL. So I put SSLRequireSSL into the .htaccess file. Now... If you try to go in as http:///admin it gives a server config error. If you take that out, it requires a login as before, but it's an insecure login. Here's the really bad part: if you go straight in as https:///admin with or without SSLRequireSSL in .htaccess it drops you right into that very sensitive directory -- no password required -- defeating the entire exercise. I tried with redirects and it chokes. I read that's legal in .htaccess but acts like its not... It's like the port 80 server doesn't like any of the secure stuff and the secure server ignores the .htaccess file regardless. This is identity theft waiting to happen. How can I fix it, short of taking the site down. How can I test to see that SSL really is set up completely correctly on this server. From ian at znark.com Wed Feb 4 18:32:02 2004 From: ian at znark.com (Ian Burrell) Date: Wed Feb 4 18:32:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using YUM to install src rpms In-Reply-To: <2762.216.99.218.67.1075875756.squirrel@sautez.com> References: <2762.216.99.218.67.1075875756.squirrel@sautez.com> Message-ID: <4021AAE7.6080800@znark.com> Josh Orchard wrote: > > I have built a new fedora 1 machine with SW RAID 5 and I'm quite happy > with the install process. It was a very nice experience. > > Now I need to install the src packages for httpd as I need to > recompile suexec to point to a different doc-base. I would like to > you YUM as I have grown to like it. > > How do you tell YUM to go get the src SRPMS? > > I added the path to them in the /etc/yum.conf file but it still tells > me that src file doesn't exist when I can actually see it. > yum doesn't support downloading sources. Adding the source directory to the yum.conf won't do any good because the list of source packages is stored in a different place. yum currently doesn't make any use of the list of source packages. I know people are working on adding the feature. - Ian -- ian at znark.com http://www.znark.com/ From keithl at kl-ic.com Wed Feb 4 20:59:01 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Wed Feb 4 20:59:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Crimes and Justice against SCO and Microsoft Message-ID: <20040205045809.GA11112@gate.kl-ic.com> I'm going to hang it out here, and possibly incite a flame war. This may be a really stupid thing to do, and get me banned from the list. I hope not; what *intend* to do is to prove that we are civilized, responsible adults. So cross your fingers ... In the latest EEtimes, the article "'Electronic terror' in Linux's shadow" ( http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20040202S0032 ) reacts to the MyDoom virus, as well as the threats against SCO's Darl McBride and the folks that have spoken out in support of the SCO position. The article point out that many people that hold the Linux community as a whole responsible for MyDoom, even though the person or persons responsible are a very tiny subset and unrepresentative subset of the whole community. The article then goes on to discuss the death threats against McBride and various journalists and analysts that offer any shred of support for the SCO position. The article says that the Linux community consists of about 80% practical-but-not-political users of Linux, 10% evangelists, and 10% nut cases. Most of us in PLUG probably shade towards evangelist, but there is a risk of falling into the nut case category. What I want to do here is to draw a line between evangelist and nut case. For the following list, I will refer to "SCO and Microsoft" as "S&M" for short. Here's some places to draw the line (oversimplified, it is a multidimensional space): 0) I love S&M. You Linux people are silly. 1) Don't offend anybody. Say nothing about S&M. Just smile and help people run Linux. 2) Participate in efforts to expose S&M faults, and support IBM and others in the lawsuit, but otherwise promote caution and avoid suggesting any kind of reactive measure. 3) Participate in active legal attacks on S&M. Make rude remarks about the companies, their principals, and their customers. 4) Engage in victimless but illegal attacks on S&M, such things as posting secret sources to the net or hacks of license code. Here "victimless" is in the sense of causing annoyance or thwarting expectations, but not in terms of leaving systems useless or people physically hurt. 5) Make threats of physical damage; destroying data, breaking machines. 6) Make threats of personal damage against DMcB or BG. 7) Actually launch physical/network attacks - i.e. MyDoom . 8) Actually launch personal attacks - i.e. break legs, pistol whip. 9) Kill anti-Linux principals. Obviously, different ratios of network/spoken/physical threat can be imagined, but the above scale works as a starting point. I imagine we have amongst us folks with opinions ranging from (1) to (6). I don't think we have any (0) or (7-9) folks. Myself, I am comfortable with (1) through (3), and waver between (2) and (3) in my own behavior - that is, every legal activity, in good or bad taste. If I encountered (0) or (4), I would admonish. If I encountered (5) and (6), threats of physical or personal damage, I would counter with threats of exposure. If I encountered (7) through (9), actual illegal attacks, I would call the cops and help with investigations. If I saw somebody trying to kill Bill Gates, I would use lethal force to prevent it if necessary (then call in a BIG favor). All that said, I have been known to mouth off to levels as high as (6) myself, sometimes. Jokingly making threats. MyDoom has made this a "not funny any more". Times have changed. I am smart enough to think up different jokes. The MyDoom virus is the first time that someone who claims membership in our tribe has used that as an excuse to perform widespread vandalism, level (7) on the above scale. For many people among the vast majority that is NOT our tribe, that is their first concious impression of Linux. That is a *lousy* way to get people's attention, IMHO. A half dozen of those, and we are not just ignored but actively suppressed. I think that on act may have cost us a few months of progress. But opinions likely differ. Maybe attention of any kind is good. Maybe the rightness of our cause justifies any act. However, if that is the majority opinion, I'm outta here. I'm wondering where the rest of you stand. Indifference? Quiet? Active? Illegal? Damage? Murder? What would you do, and what would you tolerate, and what would you punish ? What do YOU think? We will get some silly/joking answers to this question - please help me keep this thread on track by ignoring those. The folks making the jokes are worried too. Let's get some opinions out there, and avoid the flames while we learn the feelings of the group. Perhaps some of the debate can occur at the Lucky Lab on thursday. Keith And forgive the long rant - this is a tricky subject, and definition may help avoid some misunderstandings. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From steve at out-of-control.com Wed Feb 4 22:40:02 2004 From: steve at out-of-control.com (Steve Nelson) Date: Wed Feb 4 22:40:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Crimes and Justice against SCO and Microsoft In-Reply-To: <20040205045809.GA11112@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20040205045809.GA11112@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <1075963158.2771.2.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Where did you get the idea that actual physical threats were made in the whole MyDoom debacle? I think that any self respecting person (be they of Linux or M$ roots) would not make such threats -- threats are criminal in nature. I just wonder where you think that threats were made? Steve On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 21:58, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I'm going to hang it out here, and possibly incite a flame war. > This may be a really stupid thing to do, and get me banned from > the list. I hope not; what *intend* to do is to prove that we > are civilized, responsible adults. So cross your fingers ... > > In the latest EEtimes, the article "'Electronic terror' in Linux's > shadow" ( http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20040202S0032 ) reacts to > the MyDoom virus, as well as the threats against SCO's Darl McBride > and the folks that have spoken out in support of the SCO position. > The article point out that many people that hold the Linux community > as a whole responsible for MyDoom, even though the person or persons > responsible are a very tiny subset and unrepresentative subset of the > whole community. The article then goes on to discuss the death threats > against McBride and various journalists and analysts that offer any > shred of support for the SCO position. The article says that the > Linux community consists of about 80% practical-but-not-political > users of Linux, 10% evangelists, and 10% nut cases. > > Most of us in PLUG probably shade towards evangelist, but there is > a risk of falling into the nut case category. What I want to do > here is to draw a line between evangelist and nut case. For the > following list, I will refer to "SCO and Microsoft" as "S&M" for > short. Here's some places to draw the line (oversimplified, it > is a multidimensional space): > > 0) I love S&M. You Linux people are silly. > > 1) Don't offend anybody. Say nothing about S&M. Just smile and > help people run Linux. > > 2) Participate in efforts to expose S&M faults, and support IBM > and others in the lawsuit, but otherwise promote caution and > avoid suggesting any kind of reactive measure. > > 3) Participate in active legal attacks on S&M. Make rude remarks > about the companies, their principals, and their customers. > > 4) Engage in victimless but illegal attacks on S&M, such things as > posting secret sources to the net or hacks of license code. Here > "victimless" is in the sense of causing annoyance or thwarting > expectations, but not in terms of leaving systems useless or > people physically hurt. > > 5) Make threats of physical damage; destroying data, breaking > machines. > > 6) Make threats of personal damage against DMcB or BG. > > 7) Actually launch physical/network attacks - i.e. MyDoom . > > 8) Actually launch personal attacks - i.e. break legs, pistol whip. > > 9) Kill anti-Linux principals. > > Obviously, different ratios of network/spoken/physical threat can be > imagined, but the above scale works as a starting point. > > I imagine we have amongst us folks with opinions ranging from (1) > to (6). I don't think we have any (0) or (7-9) folks. > > Myself, I am comfortable with (1) through (3), and waver between > (2) and (3) in my own behavior - that is, every legal activity, > in good or bad taste. > > If I encountered (0) or (4), I would admonish. If I encountered (5) > and (6), threats of physical or personal damage, I would counter > with threats of exposure. If I encountered (7) through (9), actual > illegal attacks, I would call the cops and help with investigations. > If I saw somebody trying to kill Bill Gates, I would use lethal > force to prevent it if necessary (then call in a BIG favor). > > All that said, I have been known to mouth off to levels as high as > (6) myself, sometimes. Jokingly making threats. MyDoom has made > this a "not funny any more". Times have changed. I am smart > enough to think up different jokes. > > The MyDoom virus is the first time that someone who claims > membership in our tribe has used that as an excuse to perform > widespread vandalism, level (7) on the above scale. For many > people among the vast majority that is NOT our tribe, that is > their first concious impression of Linux. > > That is a *lousy* way to get people's attention, IMHO. A half > dozen of those, and we are not just ignored but actively suppressed. > I think that on act may have cost us a few months of progress. > > But opinions likely differ. Maybe attention of any kind is good. > Maybe the rightness of our cause justifies any act. However, if > that is the majority opinion, I'm outta here. > > I'm wondering where the rest of you stand. Indifference? > Quiet? Active? Illegal? Damage? Murder? What would you do, > and what would you tolerate, and what would you punish ? > > What do YOU think? We will get some silly/joking answers to this > question - please help me keep this thread on track by ignoring > those. The folks making the jokes are worried too. Let's get > some opinions out there, and avoid the flames while we learn the > feelings of the group. Perhaps some of the debate can occur at > the Lucky Lab on thursday. > > Keith > > And forgive the long rant - this is a tricky subject, and definition > may help avoid some misunderstandings. -- Steve Nelson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us Wed Feb 4 22:48:01 2004 From: eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us (Eric Harrison) Date: Wed Feb 4 22:48:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Crimes and Justice against SCO and Microsoft In-Reply-To: <20040205045809.GA11112@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > >I'm going to hang it out here, and possibly incite a flame war. >This may be a really stupid thing to do, and get me banned from >the list. I hope not; what *intend* to do is to prove that we >are civilized, responsible adults. So cross your fingers ... Interesting post, but I've seen enough flame wars for the short- term. I replied to plug-talk. If you are not subscribed to plug talk, here is the archive link: http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug-talk/2004-February/001713.html -Eric From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 4 23:00:03 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 4 23:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1075964369.12706.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 14:13, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > Ok, so I'm trying to switch to rsync. I have a server running on a > > machine named apollo. This is under Fedora so it runs under xinet > > and I created a file /etc/rsyncd.conf, which it appears to be > > reading. > > This is a bit tangental, but the only reason to run rsync in server > mode is to allow for anonymous access. If you or other local users are > the only ones to use rsync, I'd just rely on rsync over ssh. > > -- Paul Heinlein Bingo! Somehow I just got it in my head that there had to be a server client. So when I read the man page that's what I hit on. Additionally, I was avoiding ssh because I had formed the impression that it was complicated to set up. Boy, is my face red (oh wait, that's from drinking). Getting ssh going was maybe the easiest thing I've ever done in linux. So now everything works and I can see why everyone kept saying, "Use the ssh, Bill, use the ssh." Thanks all Bill Spears From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Feb 5 05:37:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu Feb 5 05:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: <1075964369.12706.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075964369.12706.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Bingo! Somehow I just got it in my head that there had to be a > server client. So when I read the man page that's what I hit on. > Additionally, I was avoiding ssh because I had formed the impression > that it was complicated to set up. Boy, is my face red (oh wait, > that's from drinking). Getting ssh going was maybe the easiest > thing I've ever done in linux. So now everything works and I can > see why everyone kept saying, "Use the ssh, Bill, use the ssh." Hee hee, this is helpdesk nirvana: bill> I'm stuck with rsync. plug> Why not use it over ssh? bill> Eh? plug> You know ... ssh. [Here follows a longish pause in the conversation.] bill> I did a lot of reading, configured a bunch of software, and did a bunch of testing. It worked. Thanks for the help! The customer does all the work, and still says thanks to the helpdesk. Why would anyone ever want to send this sort of job overseas? :-) -- Paul Heinlein From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Feb 5 06:01:01 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Feb 5 06:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Spears writes: Bill> Bingo! Somehow I just got it in my head that there had to be a server Bill> client. So when I read the man page that's what I hit on. Bill> Additionally, I was avoiding ssh because I had formed the impression Bill> that it was complicated to set up. Boy, is my face red (oh wait, that's Bill> from drinking). Getting ssh going was maybe the easiest thing I've ever Bill> done in linux. So now everything works and I can see why everyone kept Bill> saying, "Use the ssh, Bill, use the ssh." The problem is that the manpages all have a gazillion options on them, when all you really need to do is: ssh-keygen -t rsa [hit return a few times until the prompt is back] ssh you at other.box.com [enter your password for otherbox when prompted] Trivial. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From ed at alcpress.com Thu Feb 5 06:24:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Thu Feb 5 06:24:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075964369.12706.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1075991570.2627.199.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 05:36, Paul Heinlein wrote: > The customer does all the work, and still says thanks to the helpdesk. > Why would anyone ever want to send this sort of job overseas? :-) Is this a rhetorical question? Ed From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 5 06:45:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 5 06:45:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rsync In-Reply-To: References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1075964369.12706.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > plug> Why not use it over ssh? > The customer does all the work, and still says thanks to the helpdesk. > Why would anyone ever want to send this sort of job overseas? :-) Because they don't know what questions to ask. Ergo, there are more calls and more profit is made. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From gepr at tempusdictum.com Thu Feb 5 07:53:02 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Thu Feb 5 07:53:02 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> Randal L. Schwartz writes: > ssh-keygen -t rsa > [hit return a few times until the prompt is back] > ssh you at other.box.com > [enter your password for otherbox when prompted] This brings up a question I've had for awhile. I use a not insignificant passphrase for my ssh identity. Does this matter? Am I wasting keystrokes? It certainly would save me time when I start work at 4am and have to retype my passphrase 7 times because my brain isn't working, yet. -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From lists at dylanreinhardt.com Thu Feb 5 08:01:01 2004 From: lists at dylanreinhardt.com (Dylan Reinhardt) Date: Thu Feb 5 08:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Crimes and Justice against SCO and Microsoft In-Reply-To: <20040205133702.12324.59696.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> References: <20040205133702.12324.59696.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <1075996733.29688.29.camel@ida.dylanreinhardt.com> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:58:09, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > The article point out that many people that hold the Linux community > as a whole responsible for MyDoom Be that as it may, that isn't a widely-held opinion. Today's NYT, for example, weighs in on the stress caused by unwary, clue-deprived users. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/05/technology/05VIRU.html While the F/OSS community *could* do more to improve its public image, I don't think we are responsible for virus writers any more than we are responsible for crimes committed by other members of our ethnic group. Besides which... it's quite possible that there's more going on here than meets the eye. If you were trying to install backdoors at a specific target without letting them know they were under attack, wouldn't this type of attack fit the bill perfectly? Cloaking specific attacks as a general nuisance would be a great way to divert resources *away* from the real problem (the open back doors) and toward incidentals (the flood of bogus mail). Perhaps that port gets closed and everyone's AV software is updated by noon, but how much time do you need if you're scanning for *specific* computers to hack? If the significant amount of forensics brought to bear on this case don't turn up some misguided teenager or malcontent, I'd begin to suspect that this attack may have served a purpose that isn't immediately obvious. FWIW, Dylan From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Feb 5 08:22:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu Feb 5 08:22:01 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > This brings up a question I've had for awhile. I use a not > insignificant passphrase for my ssh identity. Does this matter? Am > I wasting keystrokes? Yes, you're wasting keystrokes. :-) The long answer is that you could save yourself time in the long run by 1. wrapping your X or terminal session in ssh-agent 2. load your key into memory using ssh-add This assumes, of course, that you've already pushed your public key to ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on any remote machines you log into. A simple demo is available in any xterm: you at localhost$ eval $(ssh-agent -s) Agent pid XXXX you at localhost$ ssh-add Enter passphrase for /home/you/.ssh/id_rsa: you at localhost$ ssh remote.host you at remotehost$ # hey no passphrase required! :-) you at remotehost$ exit you at localhost$ ssh-add -D All identities removed. you at localhost$ eval $(ssh-agent -k) echo Agent pid XXXX killed; --Paul Heinlein From dmandel at pdxLinux.org Thu Feb 5 08:26:01 2004 From: dmandel at pdxLinux.org (dmandel at pdxLinux.org) Date: Thu Feb 5 08:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT: February PLUG Meeting Message-ID: Sorry for the late announcement, but MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT The Portland Linux/Unix Group will meet 7 PM Thursday February 5, 2003 at Portland State University in the Smith Memorial Center Room 298 On the block bounded by SW Montgomery, SW Broadway (7th), SW Harrison, and SW Park (9th) ********************************************************** PRESENTATION User Mode Linux (Running Linux under Linux) by Chris Jantzen ********************************************************** Agenda: 7:00 - 7:30 Business We will discuss the status of our ongoing projects including the monthly hands on clinics, PLUG for Education, etc. 7:30 - 8:30 Presentation See above 9:00 - ... Beer The Lucky Labrador Brewing Company 915 SE Hawthorne David Mandel Chief Activist Portland Linux/Unix Group 560 SE Alexander Corvallis, Oregon 97333 (541) 684-4644 at work (541) 730-5285 mobile dmandel at pdxLinux.org P.S. The Mid Willamette Valley Linux Users Group meets at Oregon State University (generally Owen Hall room 101) on the first Tuesday of the month. See http://www.mwvlug.org/ for details. P.S. The Salem Linux Users Group is renewing itself. See http://www.salemlug.org for details. P.S. The Eugene Linux Users Group meets regularly. See http://www.euglug.org for details. ====================================================================== David Mandel, Instructor http://www.PioneerPacific.edu Other Affiliations David Mandel http://www.DavidMandel.com Portland Linux/Unix Group http://pdxLinux.org LinuxFund http://LinuxFund.org ====================================================================== From gepr at tempusdictum.com Thu Feb 5 09:07:01 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Thu Feb 5 09:07:01 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: <16418.30530.561504.586019@eris.dischordia.net> Paul Heinlein writes: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > > > This brings up a question I've had for awhile. I use a not > > insignificant passphrase for my ssh identity. Does this matter? Am > > I wasting keystrokes? > > Yes, you're wasting keystrokes. :-) The long answer is that you could > save yourself time in the long run by > > 1. wrapping your X or terminal session in ssh-agent > 2. load your key into memory using ssh-add > > This assumes, of course, that you've already pushed your public key to > ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on any remote machines you log into. Sorry, I was ambiguous. I already use ssh-agent, ssh-add, and have my id scattered about on the net. The specific question is: What security do I gain by having a passphrase over an empty passphrase? I have to enter that passphrase whenever I do an "ssh-add". I'd prefer not to have to enter it. But, I don't want to store my passphrase on disk (say in a script file). And I worry that having an empty passphrase would compromise my machine's identity. (The only reason this is an issue is: 1) I have a behemoth machine that makes too much noise for me to run all day; so, I only fire it up for compute-intensive jobs -- these slow fans suck.... I pine for the old 400Hz hardware I used to work with, and 2) our power goes out alot.) > A simple demo is available in any xterm: [...] > you at localhost$ ssh-add -D > All identities removed. > you at localhost$ eval $(ssh-agent -k) > echo Agent pid XXXX killed; [...] Those are neat tricks. Thanks. -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Feb 5 09:16:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu Feb 5 09:16:02 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: <16418.30530.561504.586019@eris.dischordia.net> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> <16418.30530.561504.586019@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > Sorry, I was ambiguous. I already use ssh-agent, ssh-add, and have > my id scattered about on the net. The specific question is: What > security do I gain by having a passphrase over an empty passphrase? > I have to enter that passphrase whenever I do an "ssh-add". I'd > prefer not to have to enter it. But, I don't want to store my > passphrase on disk (say in a script file). And I worry that having > an empty passphrase would compromise my machine's identity. An empty passphrase means that should anyone gain access to your private key, the intruder would be able to become you on remote machines without further assistance. A passphrase raises the bar considerably. -- Paul Heinlein From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 5 09:23:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 5 09:23:02 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > This brings up a question I've had for awhile. I use a not insignificant > passphrase for my ssh identity. Does this matter? Am I wasting > keystrokes? Depends. I have a long sentence as a passphrase. When I'm moving stuff between machines here in the office (behind the firewall) all I need type is my password on the remote machine. However, when I'm away from the office I don't mind typing the entire passphrase to let me -- and no one else -- through the firewall to the network. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From merlyn at stonehenge.com Thu Feb 5 09:31:01 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Thu Feb 5 09:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <86u125qvwf.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "gepr" == gepr writes: gepr> This brings up a question I've had for awhile. I use a not gepr> insignificant passphrase for my ssh identity. Does this matter? gepr> Am I wasting keystrokes? I use no pass-phrase on my laptop. It's all a matter of who you trust to have access to that file. My laptop is precious to me... so I treat the whole thing as physical security issues. But I have a passphrase on keys that are on shared machines. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From krisa at subtend.net Thu Feb 5 11:14:02 2004 From: krisa at subtend.net (Kris) Date: Thu Feb 5 11:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] win4lin 2.0 media Message-ID: <20040205191310.GA8502@subtend.net> Anyone have a copy of Win4Lin 2.0 I could download/borrow/burn? I have a valid license but have long since lost the media. Version 2.0 worked fine for me, and I don't want to pay the $50 to upgrade to 5.1. -- I'm just a packet pusher. From felix.1 at canids.net Thu Feb 5 11:18:02 2004 From: felix.1 at canids.net (Felix Lee) Date: Thu Feb 5 11:18:02 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: on Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:14:46 PST from Paul Heinlein References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> <16418.30530.561504.586019@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: <20040205191701.D998060@grayscale.canids> the difference between having an unprotected private key file and running an ssh-agent all the time is not that great if I have access to your running computer. but it makes a big difference if I can get your files without your running computer, like if I steal a backup tape or steal your hardware. those are just the risks I can think of offhand. there may be more. -- From sharbours at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 11:48:02 2004 From: sharbours at yahoo.com (Sean, Sharon and Kyle Harbour) Date: Thu Feb 5 11:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? My experiences with Myth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040205194715.24948.qmail@web14427.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > What is the best distro for MythTV? I ran into the same problem with KnoppMyth, no easy way to update it. Which is a shame, as it is running a modified version of Debian. To date I've had at least 5 working installations of MythTV in the last 6 months, and only the last two were satisfactory for stability and quality. Jump to the bottom for the summary. The first version was on a Celeron 400 with a Hauppage WinTV BT878, an older card that was supported correctly, using Mandrake 9.1-MythTV .12., and an ancient PCI ATI Mach64 card with tv out. As a proof of concept, it worked, but quality was really low due to the CPU. I think I tried RedHat 8 or 9 on this machine at the same time, but the install from source of MythTV did not go well. Using urpmi in Mandrake to get all the dependent programs was much easier. Rev 2 was a reinstall using the same hardware, with the exception of bumping the processor up to a P2-733. Surprisingly, the results weren't much better than the Celeron 400. Rev 3 was a moved over to an Athlon 1200. Results were good enough I installed a second PCI capture card. There was 'almost' enough CPU for simultaneous double captures now, the second card had problems tuning in the audio on some channels (an Avermedia Stereo, I think). I used this setup for a few months, but it was never completely stable, and the Mythbackend recording app would randomly lockup or quit several times a week. This platform also experienced a slight whine in the sound during playback, which never really went away until I junked the athlon 1200/motherboard combo. Rev 4 bumped up to an Athlon 1900+ and KnoppMyth R4, with dual hard drives in a software raid 0. The Avermedia card was dumped in favor of a second Hauppauge card, a model 401. It took a while to figure out that lilo did not like my mixed hard drives, change over to GRUB, and figure out how to get KnoppMyth to configure and automount my raid array. This combination worked fairly well, but strangely, the CPU was taxed even more than the Athlon 1200/Mandrake 9.1 combo was. Stability was so so, but I struggled with it for a few months until Myth .13 came out and I attempted to upgrade and couldn't find an easy way to do it. Rev 5 (My current setup). I installed Mandrake 9.2 with all the updates, then installed Myth from the contrib RPMS. Everything worked extremely well and the system is now completely stable for the last month. The remarkable part is that CPU utilization dropped to half or less than what it was with KnoppMyth, and quality of the playback is VHS or better at 352x288 @ 800 MB per hour. I then installed a cheap Nvidia 5200 series card with tv out, and the TV display quality jumped up noticeably over the ancient ATI Mach64 card. As a side effect, I can now play Doom using PRBoom in OpenGL mode on my TV, and it looks great! I've tried several other OpenGL games, and they all seem to work okay. The only real issue I have right now is that for some reason, the sound mixer refuses to save the correct settings after a reboot, which I noticed when I installed the new video card. I haven't looked too closely at this yet, as it's not a big problem. To summarize, Mandrake 9.2 and Myth R .13 from rpms is, in my experience, quite a bit faster and is actually stable, as opposed to the alternatives I have tried, and is easier to install than KnoppMyth, at least on my hardware. I went through a lot of capture and sound card combinations to find a combination that worked, but I'm happy with the results. ===== Sean , Sharon & Kyle Harbour www.harbours.us __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Thu Feb 5 11:56:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Thu Feb 5 11:56:02 2004 Subject: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) Message-ID: Longer passphases make it harder to crack your private key, if it were to be compromised. It is really a matter of security vs. convenience and how you prioritize them. -Rob A > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of > gepr at tempusdictum.com > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 7:49 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) > > > Randal L. Schwartz writes: > > ssh-keygen -t rsa > > [hit return a few times until the prompt is back] > > ssh you at other.box.com > > [enter your password for otherbox when prompted] > > This brings up a question I've had for awhile. I use a not > insignificant passphrase for my ssh identity. Does this matter? > Am I wasting keystrokes? > > It certainly would save me time when I start work at 4am and have to > retype my passphrase 7 times because my brain isn't working, yet. > > -- > glen e. p. ropella =><= > Hail Eris! > H: 503.630.4505 > http://www.ropella.net/~gepr > M: 971.219.3846 > http://www.tempusdictum.com > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From mikeraz at patch.com Thu Feb 5 12:00:03 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Thu Feb 5 12:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? My experiences with Myth In-Reply-To: <20040205194715.24948.qmail@web14427.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040205194715.24948.qmail@web14427.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040205195850.GA23270@patch.com> On Thu, Feb 05, 2004 at 11:47:15AM -0800, Sean, Sharon and Kyle Harbour wrote: > The only real issue I have right now is that for some reason, the > sound mixer refuses to save the correct settings after a reboot, > which I noticed when I installed the new video card. I haven't looked > too closely at this yet, as it's not a big problem. Are you using the Alsa sound modules? If so that is the default behavior. See: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php?page=FAQ021 stated reason is "If the mixer was left in an undefined state there could be unexpected feedback problems, or worse, damage to your speakers and eardrums." -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge. - Albert Einstein From Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com Thu Feb 5 12:07:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson2 at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Thu Feb 5 12:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? My experiences with Myth Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Sean, > Sharon and Kyle > Harbour > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:47 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? My experiences with Myth > > > > --- "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > > What is the best distro for MythTV? > > I ran into the same problem with KnoppMyth, no easy way to update it. > Which is a shame, as it is running a modified version of Debian. > > To date I've had at least 5 working installations of MythTV in the > last 6 months, and only the last two were satisfactory for stability > and quality. Jump to the bottom for the summary. > > The first version was on a Celeron 400 with a Hauppage WinTV BT878, > an older card that was supported correctly, using Mandrake 9.1-MythTV > .12., and an ancient PCI ATI Mach64 card with tv out. As a proof of > concept, it worked, but quality was really low due to the CPU. I > think I tried RedHat 8 or 9 on this machine at the same time, but the > install from source of MythTV did not go well. Using urpmi in > Mandrake to get all the dependent programs was much easier. > > Rev 2 was a reinstall using the same hardware, with the exception of > bumping the processor up to a P2-733. Surprisingly, the results > weren't much better than the Celeron 400. > > Rev 3 was a moved over to an Athlon 1200. Results were good enough I > installed a second PCI capture card. There was 'almost' enough CPU > for simultaneous double captures now, the second card had problems > tuning in the audio on some channels (an Avermedia Stereo, I think). > I used this setup for a few months, but it was never completely > stable, and the Mythbackend recording app would randomly lockup or > quit several times a week. This platform also experienced a slight > whine in the sound during playback, which never really went away > until I junked the athlon 1200/motherboard combo. > > Rev 4 bumped up to an Athlon 1900+ and KnoppMyth R4, with dual hard > drives in a software raid 0. The Avermedia card was dumped in favor > of a second Hauppauge card, a model 401. It took a while to figure > out that lilo did not like my mixed hard drives, change over to GRUB, > and figure out how to get KnoppMyth to configure and automount my > raid array. This combination worked fairly well, but strangely, the > CPU was taxed even more than the Athlon 1200/Mandrake 9.1 combo was. > Stability was so so, but I struggled with it for a few months until > Myth .13 came out and I attempted to upgrade and couldn't find an > easy way to do it. > > Rev 5 (My current setup). I installed Mandrake 9.2 with all the > updates, then installed Myth from the contrib RPMS. Everything worked > extremely well and the system is now completely stable for the last > month. The remarkable part is that CPU utilization dropped to half or > less than what it was with KnoppMyth, and quality of the playback is > VHS or better at 352x288 @ 800 MB per hour. I then installed a cheap > Nvidia 5200 series card with tv out, and the TV display quality > jumped up noticeably over the ancient ATI Mach64 card. As a side > effect, I can now play Doom using PRBoom in OpenGL mode on my TV, and > it looks great! I've tried several other OpenGL games, and they all > seem to work okay. > > The only real issue I have right now is that for some reason, the > sound mixer refuses to save the correct settings after a reboot, > which I noticed when I installed the new video card. I haven't looked > too closely at this yet, as it's not a big problem. I had the same problem. I have added a line in a startup script that runs "alsactl restore" to automatically restore my mixer settings on boot. You might try that. > > To summarize, Mandrake 9.2 and Myth R .13 from rpms is, in my > experience, quite a bit faster and is actually stable, as opposed to > the alternatives I have tried, and is easier to install than > KnoppMyth, at least on my hardware. I went through a lot of capture > and sound card combinations to find a combination that worked, but > I'm happy with the results. > Thanks for the info. I suspected that Mandrake might be a good choice. It is good to have that confirmed. If I run into issues with the Fedora/ATrpms solution I will give that a try. -Rob A > > ===== > > Sean , Sharon & Kyle Harbour > www.harbours.us > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From sasha_romanosky at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 12:42:05 2004 From: sasha_romanosky at yahoo.com (Sasha Romanosky) Date: Thu Feb 5 12:42:05 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? My experiences with Myth In-Reply-To: <20040205194715.24948.qmail@web14427.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00e801c3ec28$7099cb00$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> I have only tried myth (011, 0.12) on mandrake (9.1) with a cheap avermedia card, onboard sound, an athlon 1.3ghz, 256megs ram and a single, dedicated 120gig 7200rpm drive and have had pretty good success. My only real issues were in finding/installing some of the dependencies for mythmusic and mythdvd. Actually, it was a real pita to get some of it working. For example some lame issue of requiring fast fourier transforms with double, not single bit precision, but all the rpms only had single, yet finding the proper source version to compile with double wasn't working (aaak) anyhoo... Given that the cpu doesn't do mpeg2 compression, the cpu has to take the load, and at 1.3ghz, it's about at its limit. That is, I can't be doing much else with the box lest I want to see some slight but annoying stuttering. There may be room for optimization, but I haven't had the time to investigate. While the overall quality of the shows (including color quality) is fine, given that the tuner card was only $70 or so, I shouldn't expect much. Moving to the pvr-250 or 350 should make a noticeable difference. Actually, does anyone have any experience with improved quality from one card to another (all other things being equal)? -- If so, I'd love to hear. This card would also free up cpu for other things, so it's a double bonus. I do like mythweather and mythmusic, though I don't use them much these days, for some reason. I finally have mythdvd working with a decent xine command line to load in IR blaster commands to control the dvd playback in zine with the same remote. It's a simple thing, I know, but it makes for a wonderfully seemless experience. I reall like mythweb and I should upgrade because I hear it gets better. I really wish there was an easy way to use the cutlist to cut commercials and archive shows without going through the pains of reencoding. Oh please...ohh please... I'd also really like to see a mythradio for recording, well...radio. Npr especially. I haven't tried .13 -- Oohhh 0.14 is out! Thus ends my experience. Ps. I'd LOVE see a plug-talk on mythtv. I probably wouldn't be the best for giving it, but I'd be happy to share info. Cheers, sasha > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Sean, > Sharon and Kyle Harbour > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:47 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? My experiences with Myth > > > > --- "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > > What is the best distro for MythTV? > > I ran into the same problem with KnoppMyth, no easy way to > update it. Which is a shame, as it is running a modified > version of Debian. > > To date I've had at least 5 working installations of MythTV > in the last 6 months, and only the last two were satisfactory > for stability and quality. Jump to the bottom for the summary. > > The first version was on a Celeron 400 with a Hauppage WinTV > BT878, an older card that was supported correctly, using > Mandrake 9.1-MythTV .12., and an ancient PCI ATI Mach64 card > with tv out. As a proof of concept, it worked, but quality > was really low due to the CPU. I think I tried RedHat 8 or 9 > on this machine at the same time, but the install from source > of MythTV did not go well. Using urpmi in Mandrake to get all > the dependent programs was much easier. > > Rev 2 was a reinstall using the same hardware, with the > exception of bumping the processor up to a P2-733. > Surprisingly, the results weren't much better than the Celeron 400. > > Rev 3 was a moved over to an Athlon 1200. Results were good > enough I installed a second PCI capture card. There was > 'almost' enough CPU for simultaneous double captures now, the > second card had problems tuning in the audio on some channels > (an Avermedia Stereo, I think). I used this setup for a few > months, but it was never completely stable, and the > Mythbackend recording app would randomly lockup or quit > several times a week. This platform also experienced a slight > whine in the sound during playback, which never really went > away until I junked the athlon 1200/motherboard combo. > > Rev 4 bumped up to an Athlon 1900+ and KnoppMyth R4, with > dual hard drives in a software raid 0. The Avermedia card was > dumped in favor of a second Hauppauge card, a model 401. It > took a while to figure out that lilo did not like my mixed > hard drives, change over to GRUB, and figure out how to get > KnoppMyth to configure and automount my raid array. This > combination worked fairly well, but strangely, the CPU was > taxed even more than the Athlon 1200/Mandrake 9.1 combo was. > Stability was so so, but I struggled with it for a few months > until Myth .13 came out and I attempted to upgrade and > couldn't find an easy way to do it. > > Rev 5 (My current setup). I installed Mandrake 9.2 with all > the updates, then installed Myth from the contrib RPMS. > Everything worked extremely well and the system is now > completely stable for the last month. The remarkable part is > that CPU utilization dropped to half or less than what it was > with KnoppMyth, and quality of the playback is VHS or better > at 352x288 @ 800 MB per hour. I then installed a cheap Nvidia > 5200 series card with tv out, and the TV display quality > jumped up noticeably over the ancient ATI Mach64 card. As a > side effect, I can now play Doom using PRBoom in OpenGL mode > on my TV, and it looks great! I've tried several other OpenGL > games, and they all seem to work okay. > > The only real issue I have right now is that for some reason, > the sound mixer refuses to save the correct settings after a > reboot, which I noticed when I installed the new video card. > I haven't looked too closely at this yet, as it's not a big problem. > > To summarize, Mandrake 9.2 and Myth R .13 from rpms is, in my > experience, quite a bit faster and is actually stable, as > opposed to the alternatives I have tried, and is easier to > install than KnoppMyth, at least on my hardware. I went > through a lot of capture and sound card combinations to find > a combination that worked, but I'm happy with the results. > > > ===== > > Sean , Sharon & Kyle Harbour > www.harbours.us > From sharbours at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 12:58:01 2004 From: sharbours at yahoo.com (Sean, Sharon and Kyle Harbour) Date: Thu Feb 5 12:58:01 2004 Subject: Plug talk/Install fest on MythTV? Was RE: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? In-Reply-To: <00e801c3ec28$7099cb00$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040205205712.85786.qmail@web14426.mail.yahoo.com> A plug talk would be okay, but perhaps a MythTV install fest at the upcoming Riverdale High School linux install lab in a couple of weeks would be better? This is the kind of project where a couple of dozen eyes would really help. My wish list includes getting a working DVD burner export script so I can start archiving the stuff I really like... Sean Harbour --- Sasha Romanosky wrote: -snip- > I really wish there was an easy way to use the cutlist to cut > commercials and archive shows without going through the pains of > reencoding. Oh please...ohh please... > > I'd also really like to see a mythradio for recording, > well...radio. Npr > especially. > > I haven't tried .13 -- Oohhh 0.14 is out! > > Thus ends my experience. > > Ps. I'd LOVE see a plug-talk on mythtv. I probably wouldn't be the > best > for giving it, but I'd be happy to share info. > > Cheers, > sasha __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From raanders at acm.org Thu Feb 5 13:33:01 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Thu Feb 5 13:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CUPs redux - pointers Message-ID: I tried looking in the archives but even on a 1.5Mbit connection it is slow with all the mydoom caused problems. So I'll just ask for for the Cliff Notes version or the month/year for any discussion on problems with CUPS and a RHL 7.3+ upgrade to Fedora Core 1. One of the last things I expected was this and unfortunately the system isn't available to me until this week end. When I try to configure a printer configuration (as root) I get an error about not being able to create or write to the queue. And I've already forgotten what the error message was exactly and didn't write it down ... :-(damn.) I looked in the directory(s) where CUPS claimed it wanted to work - /var/spool/ and /var/spool/lp0 - and saw no permissions problems. TIA, Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From danh at fork.com Thu Feb 5 14:48:02 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Thu Feb 5 14:48:02 2004 Subject: Plug talk/Install fest on MythTV? Was RE: [PLUG] Best distro for MythTV? In-Reply-To: <20040205205712.85786.qmail@web14426.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Sean, Sharon and Kyle Harbour wrote: > A plug talk would be okay, but perhaps a MythTV install fest at the > upcoming Riverdale High School linux install lab in a couple of weeks > would be better? This is the kind of project where a couple of dozen > eyes would really help. You are defintely welcome to do an install fest at the Clinic. Bear in mind, however, that our volunteers are probably not MythTV gurus. The Clinic will be held on February 21st. Dan From jeme at brelin.net Thu Feb 5 16:58:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Thu Feb 5 16:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes Message-ID: Gaah! Help. Please. I'm building a Debian Unstable desktop machine for somebody and I'm having some strange behavior. First, I noticed right away that 2.6 contains no /proc/pci. What's the best way to get this information in the new-styleee? Second, my mouse doesn't work. I installed the ps/2 mouse kernel module and it comes up and even tells me what kind of mouse I have, so that makes me think that the port and mouse are somewhat working. But gpm dies instantly and X says "no core pointer" and dies. There's a message in syslog every time gpm tries to start that claims "/dev/psaux: no such device". WTF?!? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Thu Feb 5 17:03:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Thu Feb 5 17:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > Second, my mouse doesn't work. I installed the ps/2 mouse kernel module > and it comes up and even tells me what kind of mouse I have, so that > makes me think that the port and mouse are somewhat working. But gpm > dies instantly and X says "no core pointer" and dies. > > There's a message in syslog every time gpm tries to start that claims > "/dev/psaux: no such device". More info: Here's some relevant dmesg output: input: ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse on isa0060/serio1 So I tried both /dev/input/mouse0 and /dev/input/mice. Same problems. Gah, gah, gah, and wtf, too. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From bspears at easystreet.com Thu Feb 5 17:13:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Thu Feb 5 17:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: <86u125qvwf.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <86u125qvwf.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <1076029921.12706.43.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 09:27, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > My laptop is precious to me... so I Does she have a name? -- Bill Spears From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Thu Feb 5 17:41:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Thu Feb 5 17:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: <1076029921.12706.43.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <86u125qvwf.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <1076029921.12706.43.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076031629.1549.19.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 09:27, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > My laptop is precious to me... so I It's the One Laptop to rule them all, of course. All Seeing Eye on the tower named Redmond watches it whenever Randall signs in without his pass-phrase. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From grishnav at egosurf.net Thu Feb 5 19:04:02 2004 From: grishnav at egosurf.net (Grish) Date: Thu Feb 5 19:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40230412.6030500@egosurf.net> Jeme A Brelin wrote: >Gaah! > >Help. Please. > >I'm building a Debian Unstable desktop machine for somebody and I'm having >some strange behavior. > >First, I noticed right away that 2.6 contains no /proc/pci. What's the >best way to get this information in the new-styleee? > > lspci I read somewhere that /proc/pci was deprecated... Still available, though. From AthlonRob at axpr.net Thu Feb 5 19:18:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Thu Feb 5 19:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: <40230412.6030500@egosurf.net> References: <40230412.6030500@egosurf.net> Message-ID: <1076037478.7233.70.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 19:03, Grish wrote: > lspci > > I read somewhere that /proc/pci was deprecated... Still available, though. Yeah, FWIW... /proc/pci is chalk full of information on my 2.6.2 box. Rob From josh at emediatedesigns.com Thu Feb 5 20:58:02 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Thu Feb 5 20:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users Message-ID: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> Hello, I want to move some users to another user account. So, if they had a user name of: josh and I want to change it to josh.orchard Is there a way I can still alias the josh account so that the user would have time to log in with both accounts to get email and ftp? Or is that something you can't do because if I create another user account it will have a different ID number and file permissons would be hosed. Thanks for the help, Josh From josh at emediatedesigns.com Thu Feb 5 21:11:02 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using YUM to install src rpms In-Reply-To: <4021AAE7.6080800@znark.com> References: <2762.216.99.218.67.1075875756.squirrel@sautez.com> <4021AAE7.6080800@znark.com> Message-ID: <3108.216.99.218.67.1076044174.squirrel@sautez.com> > > yum doesn't support downloading sources. Adding the source directory > to > the yum.conf won't do any good because the list of source packages is > stored in a different place. yum currently doesn't make any use of > the > list of source packages. I know people are working on adding the > feature. > > - Ian > Thanks Ian. The sad thing is I download the src package and still I can't get it to install. I'll need to figure that out too. Josh From wcooley at nakedape.cc Thu Feb 5 21:21:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Thu Feb 5 21:21:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> Message-ID: <1076044829.16601.6.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 20:56, Josh Orchard wrote: > Hello, > > I want to move some users to another user account. So, if they had a > user name of: > > josh > > and I want to change it to > > josh.orchard > > Is there a way I can still alias the josh account so that the user > would have time to log in with both accounts to get email and ftp? > > Or is that something you can't do because if I create another user > account it will have a different ID number and file permissons would > be hosed. > > Thanks for the help, Well, you /can/, but it might be more trouble than it's worth. I've done this with LDAP--posixAccount can have a multi-valued userid attribute, which maps to the username. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Contract Sys Admin http://nakedape.cc/r/csa * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 6 00:18:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: <1076037478.7233.70.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <40230412.6030500@egosurf.net> <1076037478.7233.70.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 19:03, Grish wrote: > > lspci > > > > I read somewhere that /proc/pci was deprecated... Still available, though. > > Yeah, FWIW... /proc/pci is chalk full of information on my 2.6.2 box. Weird. Doesn't even exist on my machine. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 6 00:23:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:23:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] spam related spam question Message-ID: This is a very generic question that I'm asking here only because I know there are some real fanatics about unsolicited email on this list. What's the theory behind all those random words in spam messages? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From amunk at pdx.edu Fri Feb 6 00:29:02 2004 From: amunk at pdx.edu (Andrew Munkres) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: References: <40230412.6030500@egosurf.net> <1076037478.7233.70.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <16419.19494.671739.131742@pdx.edu> Jeme A Brelin writes: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: [snip] > > Yeah, FWIW... /proc/pci is chalk full of information on my 2.6.2 box. > > Weird. Doesn't even exist on my machine. I think that there might be an option in the kernel configuration file to put /proc/pci in the kernel. From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 6 00:37:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: <40230412.6030500@egosurf.net> References: <40230412.6030500@egosurf.net> Message-ID: <861xp8mwnm.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Grish" == Grish writes: Jeme> First, I noticed right away that 2.6 contains no /proc/pci. Jeme> What's the best way to get this information in the new-styleee? Grish> lspci Grish> I read somewhere that /proc/pci was deprecated... Still Grish> available, though. See drivers/pci/Kconfig, which says in part: config PCI_LEGACY_PROC bool "Legacy /proc/pci interface" depends on PCI ---help--- This feature enables a procfs file -- /proc/pci -- that provides a summary of PCI devices in the system. This feature has been deprecated as of v2.5.53, in favor of using the tool lspci(8). This feature may be removed at a future date. lspci can provide the same data, as well as much more. lspci is a part the pci-utils package, which should be installed by your distribution. See Documentation/Changes for information on where to get the latest version. When in doubt, say N. Evidently, Debian's 2.6 kernel turns this off. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 6 00:40:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:40:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86wu70lhyg.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Jeme" == Jeme A Brelin writes: Jeme> Second, my mouse doesn't work. I installed the ps/2 mouse Jeme> kernel module and it comes up and even tells me what kind of Jeme> mouse I have, so that makes me think that the port and mouse are Jeme> somewhat working. But gpm dies instantly and X says "no core Jeme> pointer" and dies. Jeme> There's a message in syslog every time gpm tries to start that Jeme> claims "/dev/psaux: no such device". Hmm. Is /dev/psaux there? What does "ls -l /dev/psaux" tell you? -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From amunk at pdx.edu Fri Feb 6 00:57:01 2004 From: amunk at pdx.edu (Andrew Munkres) Date: Fri Feb 6 00:57:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: <86wu70lhyg.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86wu70lhyg.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <16419.21209.876783.207402@pdx.edu> Russell Senior writes: > >>>>> "Jeme" == Jeme A Brelin writes: [snip] > Jeme> There's a message in syslog every time gpm tries to start that > Jeme> claims "/dev/psaux: no such device". > > Hmm. Is /dev/psaux there? What does "ls -l /dev/psaux" tell you? Actually, I think that "no such device" means that the device number doesn't exist: amunk at gloingo:~$ sudo cat /dev/hda cat: /dev/hda: No such device amunk at gloingo:~$ ls -alt /dev/hda brw-rw---- 1 root disk 3, 0 Mar 14 2002 /dev/hda From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 6 01:55:03 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 6 01:55:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: <16419.21209.876783.207402@pdx.edu> References: <86wu70lhyg.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <16419.21209.876783.207402@pdx.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Andrew Munkres wrote: > Russell Senior writes: > > >>>>> "Jeme" == Jeme A Brelin writes: > [snip] > > Jeme> There's a message in syslog every time gpm tries to start that > > Jeme> claims "/dev/psaux: no such device". > > > > Hmm. Is /dev/psaux there? What does "ls -l /dev/psaux" tell you? > > Actually, I think that "no such device" means that the device number doesn't > exist: > > amunk at gloingo:~$ sudo cat /dev/hda > cat: /dev/hda: No such device > amunk at gloingo:~$ ls -alt /dev/hda > brw-rw---- 1 root disk 3, 0 Mar 14 2002 /dev/hda Right... that's more like it. crw------- 1 root root 10, 1 Mar 14 2002 /dev/psaux Anyway, I'm not even sure that's where the kernel wants to put my mouse. What's this bit I quoted earlier: input: ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse on isa0060/serio1 Seems like the input device abstraction has gone a bit further... should my mouse be in /dev/input? But it's not /dev/input/mouse0... J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From josh at emediatedesigns.com Fri Feb 6 04:47:02 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Fri Feb 6 04:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: <20040206045722.GB5367@merlot.com> References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> <20040206045722.GB5367@merlot.com> Message-ID: <3785.216.99.218.67.1076071513.squirrel@sautez.com> > If you're only doing this for email, you can just add an alias in the > aliases file. > > What's the goal? If it's just normalizing email and you're using POP > or > IMAP, create an alias. > > --Kurt The goal is to have the virtual domains to have the same user login sub part so that I can use VirtualMin and allow the Admin of the virtual domains to control their domain. This requires that the OS users to have a user name of: josh.mydomain.com It sounds like Will pretty much explained to me that I would need LDAP setup doing all my account info. Which I think in the end I will have MySQL with VirtualMin doing some but it only uses MySQL for other settings not users. That is still down at the normal user level and hence the OS name standard. Thanks. I guess I'll just move the users over per domain with some arrangement. It isn't that many just was trying to find an easy no hassle move option. Josh From phillk6751 at comcast.net Fri Feb 6 06:43:02 2004 From: phillk6751 at comcast.net (phillip) Date: Fri Feb 6 06:43:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402060642.34440.phillk6751@comcast.net> I believe your problem doesn't lie in that /proc/pci doesn't exist, you might have to enable Devfs, even though it's depreciated. I believe that I remember having to do so. Another alternative would be to try to figure out a way of doing it with udev, but I know nothing about udev. -Phil On Friday 06 February 2004 12:57 am, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > Gaah! > > Help. Please. > > I'm building a Debian Unstable desktop machine for somebody and I'm having > some strange behavior. > > First, I noticed right away that 2.6 contains no /proc/pci. What's the > best way to get this information in the new-styleee? > > Second, my mouse doesn't work. I installed the ps/2 mouse kernel module > and it comes up and even tells me what kind of mouse I have, so that makes > me think that the port and mouse are somewhat working. But gpm dies > instantly and X says "no core pointer" and dies. > > There's a message in syslog every time gpm tries to start that claims > "/dev/psaux: no such device". > > WTF?!? > > J. From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 6 06:44:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 6 06:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] spam related spam question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040206144342.GC22274@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 12:22:12AM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > What's the theory behind all those random words in spam messages? Spammers still haven't discovered that Bayesian filtering is here to stay and throw in a bunch of words to throw off static filters. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAI6geUzgNqloQMwcRAr1SAJsHI0Vl/nS7LQaF8t5FmyJoHSGxfQCgnfpe i17d2x6qxvboBrQrzqYTXRk= =QA1e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From buchholz at easystreet.com Fri Feb 6 09:06:02 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Fri Feb 6 09:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> Message-ID: <4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> Josh Orchard wrote: >I want to move some users to another user account. So, if they had a >user name of: > >josh > >and I want to change it to > >josh.orchard > >Is there a way I can still alias the josh account so that the user >would have time to log in with both accounts to get email and ftp? > >Or is that something you can't do because if I create another user >account it will have a different ID number and file permissons would >be hosed. > > > You *can* do this. ("Do you *want* to?" is an entirely different question.) The simplest way (for a few accounts) is to directly edit the /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow files. (You might want to: (a) make sure the originals are safe, (b) no other admin is working on user accounts, and (c) no end-users are trying to change their password while doing this work.) If you've got a bunch (more than 20-30), you may want to use a small script to help. Find your entries from /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow, e.g. [root]# grep ^josh /etc/passwd /etc/shadow /etc/passwd:josh:x:3023:3450:Josh Orchard:/home/josh:/bin/bash /etc/shadow:josh:$1$KruZ55qS$uxyzpNM2abcd1234b788k1:11655:0:99999:7::: Now, contruct new lines for each file with the new username /etc/passwd ----------- [existing] josh:x:3023:3450:Josh Orchard:/home/josh:/bin/bash [new] josh.orchard:x:3023:3450:Josh Orchard:/home/josh:/bin/bash /etc/shadow ----------- [existing] josh:$1$KruZ55qS$uxyzpNM2abcd1234b788k1:11655:0:99999:7::: [new] josh.orchard:$1$KruZ55qS$uxyzpNM2abcd1234b788k1:11655:0:99999:7::: Save the files, and now both usernames have exactly the same UID, GID, home directories, password, etc. Now one problem you might want to think about ... what happens when "josh" or "josh.orchard" uses the passwd(1) command to update their password? I'm pretty sure only one account will be changed, but not the other. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 09:26:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 09:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: <4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> <4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Don Buchholz wrote: > The simplest way (for a few accounts) is to directly edit the /etc/passwd > and /etc/shadow files. (You might want to: (a) make sure the originals > are safe, (b) no other admin is working on user accounts, and (c) no > end-users are trying to change their password while doing this work.) If > you've got a bunch (more than 20-30), you may want to use a small script > to help. Don, Why wouldn't one use pwunconv to remove the shadow password file first? Then, after dinking around with the password file, run pwconv to regenerate the shadow file from the one, changed one? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 6 09:51:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 6 09:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] spam related spam question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040206174708.GB1331@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 12:22:12AM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > What's the theory behind all those random words in spam messages? > Generate a less spammy score on Baysean filters. Some send little stories so we could start collecting "spam literature". -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: QOTD: "I am not sure what this is, but an 'F' would only dignify it." From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 10:02:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 10:02:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] spam related spam question In-Reply-To: <20040206174708.GB1331@patch.com> References: <20040206174708.GB1331@patch.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > Some send little stories so we could start collecting "spam literature". Heh-heh-heh! Most of the "stories" I see in the junk that gets through are cut-and-paste jobs from apparently random Web pages. Google already has such a literature collection. :-) What I find works almost 100% is finding the key word or phrase that's common to the same class of junk mail. As variants come through I either modify the original filter or create an additional one. It's working well enough for me ... at least, for now. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 10:34:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 10:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii Message-ID: I've received quite a few reports in the past week or so that tell me a MyDoom-virus infected message was intercepted from me to someone I don't know at a domain I didn't know existed. Of course the From: address is spoofed but the originating IP address is valie. Don't any of the automatic spam-checking applications confirm that the name/domain matches the IP address? I presume that these messages are sent automatically without any human intervention. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From gepr at tempusdictum.com Fri Feb 6 10:48:01 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Fri Feb 6 10:48:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RealServer 8.0 and UML Message-ID: <16419.57464.802812.18111@eris.dischordia.net> I'm seriously considering pdxcolo after last night; but, I'd like some confidence about whether or not we'll be able to run RealServer 8.0 under UML. Does anyone know? Or does anyone have any strong hunches? I'm too ignorant to hazard a guess; but, from Chris' talk, it certainly seems like it ought to work fine. -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 6 11:02:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 6 11:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > I've received quite a few reports in the past week or so that tell > me a MyDoom-virus infected message was intercepted from me to > someone I don't know at a domain I didn't know existed. Of course > the From: address is spoofed but the originating IP address is > valie. > > Don't any of the automatic spam-checking applications confirm that > the name/domain matches the IP address? I presume that these > messages are sent automatically without any human intervention. Viruses create a whole new class of headaches for admins who want to honor all the SMTP RFCs *and* keep their systems free of viruses. In an ideal world, an inbound virus would be detected during the SMTP transfer phase, and the message would be rejected with a 500-class error message. (The same ideal would hold true for spam, as well.) In the case of viruses with their own SMTP agents, like MyDoom and SoBig, the virus would never be delivered and no one would ever receive a bounce notice. Sadly, most viruses are detected after the message has already been accepted by the MTA (Sendmail, Postfix, etc.). That leaves the admin on the receiving machine three bad options: 1. Notify the user that a virus has been detected in an inbound message and give user the chance to look at it, if need be. The thing is that most users don't want such notices; they're a nuisance, esp. during a virus storm like the recent MyDoom episode. 2. Notify the sender that the message was undeliverable. This is the cause of the spurious notices you (and all the rest of us) have received in the mail. It's a useless policy when viruses spoof the sending address. 3. Silently drop the infected message. A nice idea, except that it violates every RFC concerning the SMTP transactions. Here at work, we're most of the way to the 'ideal world' scenario listed above, but it's a complex infrastructure to maintain and not likely to be implemented in most domains for some time, if ever. --Paul Heinlein From keithl at kl-ic.com Fri Feb 6 11:20:02 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Fri Feb 6 11:20:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Short talks for plug meeting Message-ID: <20040206191831.GA26775@gate.kl-ic.com> At the Thursday general PLUG meeting, Dave mentioned that he was short on speakers for the next few months. Perhaps, we can fill the gap with a few evenings of multiple short talks rather than single long ones. For example, I have a number of short talks I could give, strung out over a few months: 1) Using swap trays with Dirvish/Rsync backup 2) Cosmetic customization of KNOPPIX 3) Integrated circuit design tools for Linux 4) The "Intellectual Property" metaphor 5) ... many more These are not long talks, and I couldn't do them back to back (too much preparation). But 1/3 or 1/4 of a full presentation would be easy, and if I was boring I could be easily hooked off the stage. Most of us have a lot of little talks in us. If we put together all our "little tricks" we could probably fill 20 meetings with them. A useful fill-in when we don't have something bigger to talk about. To save wear and tear on Dave, he could assign "guest hosts" for these nights, responsible for coordinating the sub-presentations. We could also do some lightning talks - 5 minute rants. Not open mike, some preparation and practice should be required, but not big slide and demo extravaganzas, either. These would be good fillins while projectors are prepared and files located. Lastly, a "metapresentation" night would involve everyone bringing their laptop and trying to pass a few slides through the PSU projector. This would be helpful clearing the way for future presentations. Those without laptops could try putting a few slides on a CD or floppy or USB drive and trying them on someone else's laptop. I can imagine most people would be out in the Smith lobby in small groups fiddling with X config files and such, or tweaking on presentation software. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 11:22:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 11:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Viruses create a whole new class of headaches for admins who want to > honor all the SMTP RFCs *and* keep their systems free of viruses. Paul, Thank you for the thoughtful and complete exposition. I suppose that I should have mentioned in my original message that it was 'amvisd' (did I get that name correct?) that detected the viral message. So I assume that the virus checker is set to respond to the sender's name (in your case 2) and not run 'whois' to find who actually sent it. Is the latter what you are doing? Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 6 11:44:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 6 11:44:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Thank you for the thoughtful and complete exposition. I suppose > that I should have mentioned in my original message that it was > 'amvisd' (did I get that name correct?) that detected the viral > message. See http://www.amavis.org/. We don't use it now, but I've used it in the past. > So I assume that the virus checker is set to respond to the sender's > name (in your case 2) and not run 'whois' to find who actually sent > it. Yes. Let me add that running whois isn't really an option. It'd violate the RFCs, produce even more worthless, spurious e-mail messages that are completely unwanted by their recipients, and, when you get right down to it, not solve anything. The only real standards-based solution is to reject the message during the SMTP transaction. Once the message has been accepted, you're left with the three bad options I outlined in my previous message. The sendmail folks have provided the 'milter' hooks so admins can have other software (e.g., spamassassin or virus checkers) examine a message *before* it's been accepted for delivery. Some interesting software is out there that takes advantage of libmilter: * http://www.roaringpenguin.com/mimedefang/ * http://www.snert.com/Software/milter-spamc/ I don't know if other MTAs have similar capabilities. --Paul Heinlein From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 6 11:50:03 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 6 11:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076096907.7236.136.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 11:21, Rich Shepard wrote: > Thank you for the thoughtful and complete exposition. I suppose that I > should have mentioned in my original message that it was 'amvisd' (did I get > that name correct?) that detected the viral message. So I assume that the > virus checker is set to respond to the sender's name (in your case 2) and > not run 'whois' to find who actually sent it. It's amavisd, or more proper, AMaViSd. :-) It is easy to configure amavis to silently drop viruses and spams... which is, unfortunately, what I have been forced to do. Postmaster still gets them in his mailbox (I capture all outbound port 25 traffic and send it through AMaViS, so if an internal machine becomes infected, I want to know about it). > Is the latter what you are doing? If I read his email right, no that is not what he is doing. When you're rejecting messages, you either reject it while it is being transmitted to your server, telling the sending server "hey, I'm not gonna take this email, so you are in charge of notifying the sender about that."... or you reject it after having already accepted it... you say "ok, I'll take the message. Have a nice day" and then you scan it and find out you don't want to actually put it in your user's mailbox, so how is the sender to know his message wasn't delivered? Your mail server is in charge of the message now, so it is its responsibility to notify the sender of the message their message didn't go through. The problem with virus and spam scanning is it is difficult to identify the virus or the spam before accepting it for delivery. So your server is supposed to, according to the RFCs, notify the sender (designated in the email itself) that their message is not going to be delivered. The problem with this is the sender is virtually always spoofed. Paul's method doesn't accept the message, decide not to deliver it, look up the owner of the IP, and email them... Paul's method manages to scan the emails BEFORE saying it will accept them for delivery. This way, the burden of notification lies on the sending server (and in the case of viruses with their own smtp engines, no bounce email is ever generated). I'd be interested to hear exactly how Paul manages this... if I understand things properly, this is what Sendmail w/ Milter is able to do? Tie that in with AMaViSd-new and you'd no longer have to worry about generating bounce messages. Rob From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 12:02:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 12:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > The only real standards-based solution is to reject the message during > the SMTP transaction. Once the message has been accepted, you're left > with the three bad options I outlined in my previous message. There was a pertinent, and interesting, thread on this topic earlier this week on the mailhelp list. Chuck Mead proposed rejecting all Microsoft-executable attachments. If folks need to distribute legitimate binaries, he proposed, rename the extension to someling like .dat or .zip and let the recipient know in the body of the message. Looks to me like a reasonable solution in light of the volume of virii going around. I do block all of those here because we don't run any software from Microsoft, but I realize not every organization is so far-sighted. :-) Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 6 12:06:02 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 6 12:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RealServer 8.0 and UML Message-ID: <1076097950.763.15.camel@localhost> > I'm seriously considering pdxcolo after last night; but, I'd like > some confidence about whether or not we'll be able to run RealServer > 8.0 under UML. Does anyone know? Or does anyone have any strong > hunches? I'm too ignorant to hazard a guess; but, from Chris' talk, > it certainly seems like it ought to work fine. Unless the server is set up to use a sound card, it *shouldn't* be requesting any resources that the UML kernel doesn't have. The key is that the sum of the changes UML makes to the mainline kernel are limited to memory management and the virtual device drivers. The only class of programs that have trouble with UML at this point are projects like NPTL (New Posix Thread Library) that interact at an extremely low level with the processor, kernel, and glibc. Every other app runs blissfully unaware. If you get one of our servers and find that it doesn't work, we'll do what we can to try to make it work, or refund the service. From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 6 12:08:02 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 6 12:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perfect timing! PDXcolo.net site problems FIXED Message-ID: <1076098046.790.18.camel@localhost> [moderators: this message is also waiting in the queue, kill it] With some of the most "perfect" timing I've ever seen, Nagios and MySQL conspired last night to fill our webserver's disk with nearly 1.7GB of logs, consisting of Nagios saying "Wheee! balin is up and pings in X ms." and "Wheee! dwalin is up and pings in Y ms." Logs were coming at a rate of maybe 100 *per second*. After shooting Nagios in the head, everything settled down. Now we're going to figure out what possessed MySQL to log every single query in excruciating detail, and slap that down. So.... if you couldn't get to our website over the last 16 hours, this would be why. None of our other machines, services, or customers were affected, just our ability to *get* new customers . TTYAL, Omega aka Erik Walthinsen omega at pdxcolo.net From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 6 13:29:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 6 13:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076096907.7236.136.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076096907.7236.136.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > Paul's method doesn't accept the message, decide not to deliver it, > look up the owner of the IP, and email them... Paul's method manages > to scan the emails BEFORE saying it will accept them for delivery. > This way, the burden of notification lies on the sending server (and > in the case of viruses with their own smtp engines, no bounce email > is ever generated). > > I'd be interested to hear exactly how Paul manages this... if I > understand things properly, this is what Sendmail w/ Milter is able > to do? That's exactly right. Scanning for viruses and spam happens during the SMTP transaction. If the milter app doesn't like the inbound message, sendmail rejects the message before it was accepted for delivery. Then, as you said, "the burden of notification lies on the sending server." > Tie that in with AMaViSd-new and you'd no longer have to worry about > generating bounce messages. See http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/README.milter. --Paul Heinlein From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 6 14:30:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 6 14:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] UML image merging? Message-ID: <867jyzc04x.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> I have a question about COW and backing files. When I initially setup the UML hosts I used in the December AT talk, the four hosts I had were running off the same backing file. The question I asked last night was about mounting the COW file in order to loopback mount it in the host system (e.g. to copy in modules for a new kernel). When I wanted to do this, I had to merge the COW with its backing file to create a new backing file for each virtual host. After that, I wasn't sharing the backing file anymore. The PDXcolo people seemed to imply that it was possible to re-merge the separate backing files into a single backing file and, presumably, per-host COW files. How do you do that? -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 6 14:47:01 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 6 14:47:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] UML image merging? In-Reply-To: <867jyzc04x.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <867jyzc04x.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <1076107613.763.67.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 14:29, Russell Senior wrote: > I have a question about COW and backing files. When I initially setup > the UML hosts I used in the December AT talk, the four hosts I had > were running off the same backing file. The question I asked last > night was about mounting the COW file in order to loopback mount it in > the host system (e.g. to copy in modules for a new kernel). When I > wanted to do this, I had to merge the COW with its backing file to > create a new backing file for each virtual host. After that, I wasn't > sharing the backing file anymore. The PDXcolo people seemed to imply > that it was possible to re-merge the separate backing files into a > single backing file and, presumably, per-host COW files. You have to boot the UML kernel with the original backing+CoW file, along with the either original or new flat or backing+CoW, and do an rsync between them. The easiest way to perform this is by booting via hostfs, as per the HOWTO: http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/UserModeLinux-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.3 The trick to safely doing that is to pass init=/bin/bash to the UML kernel, so you don't have the UML kernel trying to start up services that are already running on the host, using the exact same files (since UML root then == host root). From there you can mount the two ubd's (ubd1 and ubd2, not ubd0 as that "is" hostfs) and rsync between them as needed. Also keep in mind that you have to do this in order to flatten a recent CoW file, because the stock Debian (and others I presume) uml-utilities do not have uml_moo support for version 3 CoW files. I haven't checked the latest release myself. And since the uml-utilities do not have a way of going *back* to a CoW file (since rsyncing is a filesystem-level thing, not block-level), you'll probably just want to write up a script that will work both ways and use it in all cases anyway. Also, remember the phrase "Once a backing file, Always a backing file". Specifically, because the CoW file is a *block*-level difference and not filesystem-level, any changes of any kind to the backing file will totally invalidate the CoW file, and UML will refuse to use it. When moving backing files around disk or net, make sure you preserve the mtime, or UML will freak out. However, that is the *only* check it performs, so you can play with disaster scenarios e.g. scribbled disk that way. Omega aka Erik Walthinsen omega at pdxcolo.net From josh at emediatedesigns.com Fri Feb 6 14:54:02 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Fri Feb 6 14:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com><4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> Message-ID: <2565.134.244.174.76.1076107955.squirrel@sautez.com> > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Don Buchholz wrote: > >> The simplest way (for a few accounts) is to directly edit the >> /etc/passwd >> and /etc/shadow files. (You might want to: (a) make sure the >> originals >> are safe, (b) no other admin is working on user accounts, and (c) no >> end-users are trying to change their password while doing this >> work.) If >> you've got a bunch (more than 20-30), you may want to use a small >> script >> to help. > > Don, > > Why wouldn't one use pwunconv to remove the shadow password file > first? > Then, after dinking around with the password file, run pwconv to > regenerate > the shadow file from the one, changed one? > > Rich Rich, I think I understand these commands. If I run pwunconv it will remove the need for a /etc/shadow file and combine them back together. Then I can edit just one file /etc/passwd as Don suggest. Then run pwconv and the /etc/shadow will be created again. This would minimize the impact to users and they would not see the change. Allowing them to continue and then change over to the new accounts and then I could remove the user entries at a later time. Am I correct? Thanks, Josh From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 15:13:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 15:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: <2565.134.244.174.76.1076107955.squirrel@sautez.com> References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com><4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> <2565.134.244.174.76.1076107955.squirrel@sautez.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Josh Orchard wrote: > I think I understand these commands. If I run pwunconv it will remove the > need for a /etc/shadow file and combine them back together. Then I can > edit just one file /etc/passwd as Don suggest. Then run pwconv and the > /etc/shadow will be created again. Josh, Yup: PWCONV(8) PWCONV(8) NAME pwconv, pwunconv, grpconv, grpunconv - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups. SYNOPSIS pwconv pwunconv grpconv grpunconv DESCRIPTION These four programs all operate on the normal and shadow password and group files: /etc/passwd, /etc/group, /etc/shadow, and /etc/gshadow. pwconv creates shadow from passwd and an optionally exist- ing shadow. pwunconv creates passwd from passwd and shadow and then removes shadow. grpconv creates gshadow from group and an optionally existing gshadow. grpunconv creates group from group and gshadow and then removes gshadow. > This would minimize the impact to users and they would not see the change. Would they see the loss of the shadow password file? No. > Allowing them to continue and then change over to the new accounts and > then I could remove the user entries at a later time. > Am I correct? I'm not sure what you propose. If you change their username they should notice as soon as they try to log in again. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 6 15:43:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 6 15:43:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RealServer 8.0 and UML In-Reply-To: <1076097950.763.15.camel@localhost> References: <1076097950.763.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1076110921.20069.12.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 12:05, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > > I'm seriously considering pdxcolo after last night; but, I'd like > > some confidence about whether or not we'll be able to run RealServer > > 8.0 under UML. Does anyone know? Or does anyone have any strong > > hunches? I'm too ignorant to hazard a guess; but, from Chris' talk, > > it certainly seems like it ought to work fine. > > Unless the server is set up to use a sound card, it *shouldn't* be > requesting any resources that the UML kernel doesn't have. The key is > that the sum of the changes UML makes to the mainline kernel are limited > to memory management and the virtual device drivers. The only class of > programs that have trouble with UML at this point are projects like NPTL > (New Posix Thread Library) that interact at an extremely low level with > the processor, kernel, and glibc. Every other app runs blissfully > unaware. I would think that the context-switch latency caused by UML would not be very good for streaming audio. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Sangoma WAN Products Reseller http://nakedape.cc/r/wan * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josh at emediatedesigns.com Fri Feb 6 15:54:02 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Fri Feb 6 15:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com><4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> <2565.134.244.174.76.1076107955.squirrel@sautez.com> Message-ID: <2869.134.244.174.76.1076111568.squirrel@sautez.com> > Josh, > > Yup: >>>> Allowing them to continue and then change over to the new accounts >> and >> then I could remove the user entries at a later time. >> Am I correct? > > I'm not sure what you propose. If you change their username they > should > notice as soon as they try to log in again. > > Rich Well, Let's say I send an email to everyone telling them of their new user names. some people don't check email very often or on vacation or something like that. Then when they try to get their email it won't work and they will be come frustrated. If I have both running for a while then it will be seemless and can allow for the change to happen over time and make the transition a nice experience. Josh From buchholz at easystreet.com Fri Feb 6 16:00:03 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Fri Feb 6 16:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com> <4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> Message-ID: <40242A6A.7030008@easystreet.com> Rich Shepard wrote: >On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Don Buchholz wrote: > > >>The simplest way (for a few accounts) is to directly edit the /etc/passwd >>and /etc/shadow files. (You might want to: (a) make sure the originals >>are safe, (b) no other admin is working on user accounts, and (c) no >>end-users are trying to change their password while doing this work.) If >>you've got a bunch (more than 20-30), you may want to use a small script >>to help. >> >> > > Why wouldn't one use pwunconv to remove the shadow password file first? >Then, after dinking around with the password file, run pwconv to regenerate >the shadow file from the one, changed one? > > > ... 'cuz I never knew pwunconv(8) existed. (I've been pretty much of the philosophy "/etc/shadow is good ... why would I ever want to go back?" :-) From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 6 16:03:01 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 6 16:03:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RealServer 8.0 and UML In-Reply-To: <1076110921.20069.12.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <1076097950.763.15.camel@localhost> <1076110921.20069.12.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1076112140.789.74.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 15:42, Wil Cooley wrote: > I would think that the context-switch latency caused by UML would not be > very good for streaming audio. I doubt it in SKAS mode. However, I am starting lmbench runs on both the bare hardware and in a UML to see what the difference is. This won't be a repeatable test because both benchmarks are running on production machines, but will give an idea of the ratio. Context-switch latency is usually in the 1000-2500 cycle range IIRC, or around 1-2 microseconds on our hardware. Even if the context-switches were 100 times worse, the latency will still be several orders of magnitude below basic network latency. I'll publish a summary of the lmbench results here whenever they complete. Omega aka Erik Walthinsen omega at pdxcolo.net From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 16:08:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 16:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: <2869.134.244.174.76.1076111568.squirrel@sautez.com> References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com><4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> <2565.134.244.174.76.1076107955.squirrel@sautez.com> <2869.134.244.174.76.1076111568.squirrel@sautez.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Josh Orchard wrote: > Well, Let's say I send an email to everyone telling them of their new user > names. some people don't check email very often or on vacation or > something like that. Then when they try to get their email it won't work > and they will be come frustrated. If I have both running for a while then > it will be seemless and can allow for the change to happen over time and > make the transition a nice experience. Josh, Well, you've exceeded my knowledge of how the real world works. Someone else will need to guide you from here. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 6 16:26:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 6 16:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] UML image merging? In-Reply-To: <1076107613.763.67.camel@localhost> References: <867jyzc04x.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1076107613.763.67.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <864qu3ag6w.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Erik" == Erik Walthinsen writes: Erik> You have to boot the UML kernel with the original backing+CoW Erik> file, along with the either original or new flat or backing+CoW, Erik> and do an rsync between them. Aha! Thanks! -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From michael at themontagnes.com Fri Feb 6 16:39:01 2004 From: michael at themontagnes.com (Michael Montagne) Date: Fri Feb 6 16:39:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What's on that port Message-ID: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> So I'm trying to get a program to work that is supposed to listen on port 8086. But it fails on startup telling me something is already on that port. netstat -an confirms that but it doesn't tell me what program. How can I tell? -- Michael Montagne michael at themontagnes.com http://www.themontagnes.com From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 6 16:59:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 6 16:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What's on that port In-Reply-To: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> References: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> Message-ID: <86brob9030.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Montagne writes: Michael> So I'm trying to get a program to work that is supposed to Michael> listen on port 8086. But it fails on startup telling me Michael> something is already on that port. netstat -an confirms that Michael> but it doesn't tell me what program. How can I tell? Maybe: # lsof -i :8086 -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From dan_young at parkrose.k12.or.us Fri Feb 6 17:01:02 2004 From: dan_young at parkrose.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What's on that port In-Reply-To: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> References: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> Message-ID: <1076115632.10577.13.camel@dan.parkrose.k12.or.us> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 16:38, Michael Montagne wrote: > So I'm trying to get a program to work that is supposed to listen on > port 8086. But it fails on startup telling me something is already on > that port. netstat -an confirms that but it doesn't tell me what > program. How can I tell? Add -p to your netstat arguments: $ netstat -anp | grep 8086 -Dan Young -Parkrose School District From russj at dimstar.net Fri Feb 6 17:01:08 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:01:08 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What's on that port In-Reply-To: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> References: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> Message-ID: <4024389C.3030908@dimstar.net> Michael Montagne wrote: >So I'm trying to get a program to work that is supposed to listen on >port 8086. But it fails on startup telling me something is already on >that port. netstat -an confirms that but it doesn't tell me what >program. How can I tell? > I typed your question into google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=linux+%22what+is+listening+on+that+port%22&btnG=Google+Search and came up with the following: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/archive/14/2002/08/2/27661 Which tells us that the ' netstat --inet -latp' command will do this. I tried it on my server, and it seems to work. Russ From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 6 17:14:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 10:33:16AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Don't any of the automatic spam-checking applications confirm that the > name/domain matches the IP address? Broken mail servers will do that. Fortunately, you don't see it much: Such sites are unable to receive mail from most domains since often mail servers don't have the same DNS and rDNS. My site is an example of that, so is the Beaverton School District, Stream International (when I worked there), Nike...you get the idea. Doing so makes your email universe very, very small. The right answer to the email virus problem: http://ursine.ca/~baloo/clamd-exiscan.txt - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJDu9UzgNqloQMwcRAlo6AJ0bE9W4D6tXwcc66GBm8plPMufd1wCfcfAy y6UrJO0WZJ0QyIBgst2xmnU= =imgf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 6 17:18:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 17:13, Paul Johnson wrote: > The right answer to the email virus problem: > http://ursine.ca/~baloo/clamd-exiscan.txt *A* right answer, perhaps.. but to label the use of one MTA, one virus scanner, and one configuration "the right answer" seems very... monopolistic. ;-) I'd be interested to hear if anybody has a way to convince Postfix to reject viruses and/or spams at SMTP-time rather than always accepting the nasties. Rob From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 6 17:26:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > I'd be interested to hear if anybody has a way to convince Postfix to > reject viruses and/or spams at SMTP-time rather than always accepting the > nasties. That makes two of us desiring to read the answer. The spam is handled pretty well by header_checks and body_checks, but I'm always looking to block the new ones not yet in there. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Fri Feb 6 17:33:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux LVM and Mirroring Message-ID: <21945-77124@sneakemail.com> I just started playing around with LVM on Linux. I've used LVM on HP-UX for years, so I was pleased to see this nice feature of HP-UX make it into linux. However, the familiar way of mirroring logical volumes ("lvextend -m 1") seems to be missing. A quick Googling for "Linux LVM mirroring" showed me this link: http://lists.sistina.com/pipermail/linux-lvm/1999-November/004273.html That post is from 1999 explaining that mirroring was planned for the future. Well, it's the future now-- did this get added? ;-) Is the MD driver the only way to do software mirroring on Linux? -- Steve From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 6 17:37:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076117815.20069.92.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 17:15, AthlonRob wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 17:13, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > The right answer to the email virus problem: > > http://ursine.ca/~baloo/clamd-exiscan.txt > > *A* right answer, perhaps.. but to label the use of one MTA, one virus > scanner, and one configuration "the right answer" seems very... > monopolistic. ;-) > > I'd be interested to hear if anybody has a way to convince Postfix to > reject viruses and/or spams at SMTP-time rather than always accepting > the nasties. I don't follow the Postfix list closely anymore, but I last heard there was experimental support in the snapshots for using the content_filter mechanism at SMTP-time. You have to be careful with that though; some SMTP servers have rather low time-outs, so you'd have to only use reasonably fast checks. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Contract Sys Admin http://nakedape.cc/r/csa * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 6 17:41:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040207014003.GB1880@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 11:00:16AM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Viruses create a whole new class of headaches for admins who want to > honor all the SMTP RFCs *and* keep their systems free of viruses. See my prior post: I solved it. > In an ideal world, an inbound virus would be detected during the SMTP > transfer phase, and the message would be rejected with a 500-class > error message. (The same ideal would hold true for spam, as well.) debian-user's Derrick Hudson solved that. http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/config_docs/exim-spamassassin/ > In the case of viruses with their own SMTP agents, like MyDoom and > SoBig, the virus would never be delivered and no one would ever > receive a bounce notice. That's how my fix does it. I wish the so-called professionals would get their heads out of their asses: I don't have any professional experience running mail servers, but if I could do it, certainly they could. And if you're insulted by this, GOOD. You should be, I'm speaking directly to you. > 1. Notify the user that a virus has been detected in an inbound > message and give user the chance to look at it, if need be. What exactly does this accomplish, besides wasting the recipient's time? > 2. Notify the sender that the message was undeliverable. > > This is the cause of the spurious notices you (and all the rest of > us) have received in the mail. It's a useless policy when viruses > spoof the sending address. And if you're going to go this route, you should set your software up so it does not ever send virus warnings to anybody outside your domain, and only in response to virus instances from inside. At least then, if the bounce isn't going to the right person, odds are you can at least find the right person. > 3. Silently drop the infected message. > > A nice idea, except that it violates every RFC concerning the SMTP > transactions. Well, so do viruses. When it comes to RFC compliance with SMTP, what with all the spam and viruses, I say go eye for an eye and beat them at their own stupid server tricks on your own server. > Here at work, we're most of the way to the 'ideal world' scenario > listed above, but it's a complex infrastructure to maintain and not > likely to be implemented in most domains for some time, if ever. Need a server monkey? I'm cheap! - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJEHzUzgNqloQMwcRAvIZAKDSBe4QXgTUKah0P5WtNk1e9htZGQCgx+by bRucS75d0Zl+Y36G5O3qrdI= =AJ9k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 6 17:45:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:45:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040207014451.GC1880@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 12:01:13PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > There was a pertinent, and interesting, thread on this topic earlier this > week on the mailhelp list. Chuck Mead proposed rejecting all > Microsoft-executable attachments. If folks need to distribute legitimate > binaries, he proposed, rename the extension to someling like .dat or .zip > and let the recipient know in the body of the message. This only starts a race condition: If this gets widely adopted, then all that will happen is the viruses change filenames. Whee! - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJEMTUzgNqloQMwcRAuFCAJ9do0NU8tOJpOb7cdhW7Y/e9eZUXgCfZ971 sDrLz502wYsCTi7zOoq/cOc= =7tG/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 6 17:58:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <20040207014451.GC1880@ursine.ca> References: <20040207014451.GC1880@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076119065.20069.125.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 17:44, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 12:01:13PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > There was a pertinent, and interesting, thread on this topic earlier this > > week on the mailhelp list. Chuck Mead proposed rejecting all > > Microsoft-executable attachments. If folks need to distribute legitimate > > binaries, he proposed, rename the extension to someling like .dat or .zip > > and let the recipient know in the body of the message. > > This only starts a race condition: If this gets widely adopted, then > all that will happen is the viruses change filenames. Whee! It's not just a matter of changing names; most scanners already use file(1) identification rather than rely on extensions. Even so, there are already viruses that pack themselves in archives, which is why most scanners will also scan the contents of archives. The only reasonable way to pass that kind of data is by using an archive with a password--PKZIP has had one for years, but it wasn't very good crypto, so it never got widely used (or maybe not one bothered to care). Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * * * * Good, fast and cheap: Pick all 3! * * * * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 6 17:59:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 6 17:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040207015842.GD1880@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 05:15:51PM -0800, AthlonRob wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 17:13, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > The right answer to the email virus problem: > > http://ursine.ca/~baloo/clamd-exiscan.txt > > *A* right answer, perhaps.. but to label the use of one MTA, one virus > scanner, and one configuration "the right answer" seems very... > monopolistic. ;-) I'm not saying you can't adapt it, I'm saying that exim and clamd are pretty easy to set up and configure and odds are if you're running a mail server, you can see what I'm doing and adapt it to what you're comfortable with. That being said, if you get the same results with different software, please email me so I can add it. > I'd be interested to hear if anybody has a way to convince Postfix to > reject viruses and/or spams at SMTP-time rather than always accepting > the nasties. Heheh, good luck. Everybody on debian-user that's seen my answer has just switched to exim rather than goof around with other MTAs. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJEZSUzgNqloQMwcRAul+AJ9YNU7S7seyNsg1UyjBIUon8kXGnACgx4oa GOiPGp9eeJI3Mb54xwg6rKg= =r0h2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 6 18:07:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 6 18:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076117815.20069.92.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076117815.20069.92.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1076119485.7237.167.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 17:36, Wil Cooley wrote: > I don't follow the Postfix list closely anymore, but I last heard there > was experimental support in the snapshots for using the content_filter > mechanism at SMTP-time. You have to be careful with that though; some > SMTP servers have rather low time-outs, so you'd have to only use > reasonably fast checks. I'll check in to that when I get the time... and the time keeps getting shorter. :-) How long ago, do you recall, that this was in the snapshots? Also, how long is 'rather low' as far as time-outs go? I regularly have checks exceed three seconds, sometimes they get as high as four or five seconds... very rarely higher than that. SA is the killer there; I suppose I could filter for viruses (really fast/cheap in CPU cycles) in one pass, during the SMTP session, then filter everything that survives that through SA. I do get more viruses than spams. What happens if the sending server times me out, I wonder? Would it just attempt to connect again, silently drop, or what? Thanks :-) Rob From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 6 18:19:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 6 18:19:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076119065.20069.125.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <20040207014451.GC1880@ursine.ca> <1076119065.20069.125.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <20040207021820.GE1880@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 05:57:45PM -0800, Wil Cooley wrote: > The only reasonable way to pass that kind of data is by using an > archive with a password--PKZIP has had one for years, but it wasn't > very good crypto, so it never got widely used (or maybe not one > bothered to care). I suspect both, to be honest. PKZIP was more popular in the 1990s before most of the Great Unwashed had even thought that computers could be a security risk, and those with a clue realized how trivial zip passwords are. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJErrUzgNqloQMwcRAhnXAKCgf0zWIJs8AiZMByhWAHPFkY2QKwCdEB7x ZgXiXX89MSvxMduUB5oxQN4= =0r1M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 6 19:23:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 6 19:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076119485.7237.167.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076117815.20069.92.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1076119485.7237.167.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076124125.20069.216.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 18:04, AthlonRob wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 17:36, Wil Cooley wrote: > > > I don't follow the Postfix list closely anymore, but I last heard there > > was experimental support in the snapshots for using the content_filter > > mechanism at SMTP-time. You have to be careful with that though; some > > SMTP servers have rather low time-outs, so you'd have to only use > > reasonably fast checks. > > I'll check in to that when I get the time... and the time keeps getting > shorter. :-) > > How long ago, do you recall, that this was in the snapshots? It's still there; you can read about it in the 'SMTPD_PROXY_README'. > Also, how long is 'rather low' as far as time-outs go? I regularly have > checks exceed three seconds, sometimes they get as high as four or five > seconds... very rarely higher than that. SA is the killer there; I > suppose I could filter for viruses (really fast/cheap in CPU cycles) in > one pass, during the SMTP session, then filter everything that survives > that through SA. I do get more viruses than spams. I would actually use SA checks, but only local ones (and maybe tuned only for the fastest checks) and skip the virus-checks; while virus checks are generally pretty fast, it's posible that they can take much longer. amavisd-new only checks messages <64k for spam by default (tunable), so as long as remote checks are disabled, there's a ceiling on how long it can take. > What happens if the sending server times me out, I wonder? Would it > just attempt to connect again, silently drop, or what? Generally the server will disconnect and retry later; that's the way SMTP is supposed to work to be reliable. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Contract Sys Admin http://nakedape.cc/r/csa * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 6 19:53:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 6 19:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076124125.20069.216.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076117815.20069.92.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1076119485.7237.167.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076124125.20069.216.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1076125838.7245.184.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 19:22, Wil Cooley wrote: > > How long ago, do you recall, that this was in the snapshots? > > It's still there; you can read about it in the 'SMTPD_PROXY_README'. I was hoping it had made it into the mainline release... guess not. It looks very interesting, and quite useful. > I would actually use SA checks, but only local ones (and maybe tuned > only for the fastest checks) and skip the virus-checks; while virus > checks are generally pretty fast, it's posible that they can take much > longer. amavisd-new only checks messages <64k for spam by default > (tunable), so as long as remote checks are disabled, there's a ceiling > on how long it can take. Here's how I'm envisioning my setup with this SMTPD_PROXY... Backup MX box - figure out how to run it all through SpamAssassin, local checks only. The box is limited in the RAM department. Main mail server - two amavisd-new's running. The main one stays as it is. It does full virus scanning, local and remote spam checking. The second one becomes the proxy one - it'll run only local spam checks and, if I can swing it, virus checks. I'd like to configure the virus checks to time out at 500ms and *not* error if they time out. I'm not sure if such a facility exists for that yet... might need to hack things up a bit. That would, of course, be a bit redundant. Local spam checks would be run twice. The first half second of any virus scans would be run twice. It would be nice to configure it such that the virus scans would only be run once if they completed successfully on the first run, but I'm relatively confident that would require more hacking than I want to toss into this right now. However redundant it may be, I feel it would be more effective; most of the spam and viruses would be caught at the front door, so to speak... I wouldn't be responsible for the bounce messages (or lack thereof) reducing the risk of false positives going unreported. Things that made it through to the second tier... I would still be left with the initial issue - to bounce or not to bounce? ...but it would be far less important, as the big popular viruses out there today could be blocked with local SA rules if the virus scanner takes too long. Nice. Now, to implement such a thing might be more of a pain in the ass than thinking it up. :-) Anybody see any obvious problems with that idea? FWIW, the mail server is terribly underloaded. :-) Thanks for planting the seed and directing me towards the SMTPD_PROXY_README, Wil! Rob From amunk at pdx.edu Fri Feb 6 19:56:02 2004 From: amunk at pdx.edu (Andrew Munkres) Date: Fri Feb 6 19:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: References: <86wu70lhyg.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <16419.21209.876783.207402@pdx.edu> Message-ID: <16420.24002.498486.250911@pdx.edu> Jeme A Brelin writes: [snip] > Right... that's more like it. > > crw------- 1 root root 10, 1 Mar 14 2002 /dev/psaux > > > Anyway, I'm not even sure that's where the kernel wants to put my mouse. > > What's this bit I quoted earlier: > > input: ImPS/2 Generic Wheel Mouse on isa0060/serio1 > > Seems like the input device abstraction has gone a bit further... should > my mouse be in /dev/input? But it's not /dev/input/mouse0... This is from drivers/input/Kconfig: -/\/- config INPUT_MOUSEDEV tristate "Mouse interface" if EMBEDDED default y depends on INPUT ---help--- Say Y here if you want your mouse to be accessible as char devices 13:32+ - /dev/input/mouseX and 13:63 - /dev/input/mice as an emulated IntelliMouse Explorer PS/2 mouse. That way, all user space programs (includung SVGAlib, GPM and X) will be able to use your mouse. If unsure, say Y. To compile this driver as a module, choose M here: the module will be called mousedev. config INPUT_MOUSEDEV_PSAUX bool "Provide legacy /dev/psaux device" if EMBEDDED default y depends on INPUT_MOUSEDEV -\/\- Maybe mousedev was built as a module and it didn't get loaded? From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 6 20:02:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 6 20:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] 2.6 kernel woes In-Reply-To: <16420.24002.498486.250911@pdx.edu> References: <86wu70lhyg.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <16419.21209.876783.207402@pdx.edu> <16420.24002.498486.250911@pdx.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Andrew Munkres wrote: > Maybe mousedev was built as a module and it didn't get loaded? That was exactly the case and I resolved it earlier today. Sorry for not updating the list. Thanks. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 6 20:24:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 6 20:24:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076125838.7245.184.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076117815.20069.92.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1076119485.7237.167.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076124125.20069.216.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1076125838.7245.184.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076127814.20069.245.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 19:50, AthlonRob wrote: > That would, of course, be a bit redundant. Local spam checks would be > run twice. The first half second of any virus scans would be run > twice. It would be nice to configure it such that the virus scans would > only be run once if they completed successfully on the first run, but > I'm relatively confident that would require more hacking than I want to > toss into this right now. You would definitely /want/ the local spam checks to be run twice--it might not make the score high enough with the local checks alone, but local and remote checks later might. > Things that made it through to the second tier... I would still be left with the initial > issue - to bounce or not to bounce? ...but it would be far less > important, as the big popular viruses out there today could be blocked > with local SA rules if the virus scanner takes too long. I don't bounce for spam or viruses; there isn't much point. > Nice. > > Now, to implement such a thing might be more of a pain in the ass than > thinking it up. :-) Not too bad really--you'll just need separate config files and separate temp dirs. One downside is that you'll also need separate Bayes databases, so Bayes will be pretty much useless on the front-end proxy (it seems very unlikely to me that you'll pass the score thresholds without remote checks enabled; it might be useful if you can some how find a way a feed messages back into it). > Anybody see any obvious problems with that idea? FWIW, the mail server > is terribly underloaded. :-) That's about how I'd proceed. > Thanks for planting the seed and directing me towards the > SMTPD_PROXY_README, Wil! Let me know how it works out. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Cisco Support & Sales http://nakedape.cc/r/cisco * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 6 21:24:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 6 21:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <1076127814.20069.245.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <20040207011334.GA1880@ursine.ca> <1076116551.7237.159.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076117815.20069.92.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1076119485.7237.167.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076124125.20069.216.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1076125838.7245.184.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076127814.20069.245.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1076131263.7235.197.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 20:23, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 19:50, AthlonRob wrote: > > > That would, of course, be a bit redundant. Local spam checks would be > > run twice. The first half second of any virus scans would be run > > twice. It would be nice to configure it such that the virus scans would > > only be run once if they completed successfully on the first run, but > > I'm relatively confident that would require more hacking than I want to > > toss into this right now. > > You would definitely /want/ the local spam checks to be run twice--it > might not make the score high enough with the local checks alone, but > local and remote checks later might. Yes... it would be nice if there were some method of passing the already completed local checks score to the second scan, which would just add on the remote scores to it. Of course, that would be far more work with the existing tools out there... > > Things that made it through to the second tier... I would still be left with the initial > > issue - to bounce or not to bounce? ...but it would be far less > > important, as the big popular viruses out there today could be blocked > > with local SA rules if the virus scanner takes too long. > > I don't bounce for spam or viruses; there isn't much point. Viruses, I agree... and I don't bounce for them. Spam, however... I had an RBL returning everything true for about a week before I figured out what was up (well... took the time to figure it out)... if people hadn't emailed me saying their messages to me were getting dropped, I would probably have never checked. Unfortunately, false positives do happen due to things like that sometimes. :-( > > Nice. > > > > Now, to implement such a thing might be more of a pain in the ass than > > thinking it up. :-) > > Not too bad really--you'll just need separate config files and separate > temp dirs. One downside is that you'll also need separate Bayes > databases, so Bayes will be pretty much useless on the front-end proxy > (it seems very unlikely to me that you'll pass the score thresholds > without remote checks enabled; it might be useful if you can some how > find a way a feed messages back into it). I hadn't thought about the bayes database... I wonder if I could run both layers of the same database? Since SA is just reading the database, locking/sharing stuff shouldn't be an issue. If both instances of amavis were running as the same user, they'd share the same bayes database. The local_sa_checks setting is in amavis's config file, so should be set in the spamd intialization...... This might take some experimentation, but I'll bet we can get the bayes database shared between the two check levels. Otherwise, we could just duplicate it between the two users. > Let me know how it works out. Will do... although I'm not sure when I'll get around to attempting an implementation. Rob From chris at maybe.net Fri Feb 6 22:49:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Fri Feb 6 22:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux LVM and Mirroring In-Reply-To: <21945-77124@sneakemail.com> References: <21945-77124@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20040207064858.GN14378@maybe.net> On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 05:32:21PM -0800, Steve Bonds wrote: > That post is from 1999 explaining that mirroring was planned for the > future. Well, it's the future now-- did this get added? ;-) Nope. > Is the MD driver the only way to do software mirroring on Linux? Yep. Although, now that I think about it ... :-) In further detail: An abortive attempt at a LVM 1.1 was made with disastrous results (some bad design and bad decisions among other issues) before it was decided to halt all LVM1 development in lieu of LVM2. Linux 2.6 features only LVM2. However, LVM2 is very new, so it doesn't even have all the features of LVM1 -- it just has a better "foundation". That said, I'm an LVM "expert", not EVMS (from IBM), and they may have logical mirroring. In fact, they probably do. Though I'd expect it's closer to AIX LVM tool-wise. I, too, come from HP-UX in this regard, so I related better with the Sistina tools. BSD's tools mirror Veritas more, if I understand correctly. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 6 22:57:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 6 22:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] What's on that port In-Reply-To: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> References: <20040207003853.GA30088@themontagnes.com> Message-ID: <20040207065603.GD7912@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 04:38:53PM -0800, Michael Montagne wrote: > So I'm trying to get a program to work that is supposed to listen on > port 8086. But it fails on startup telling me something is already on > that port. netstat -an confirms that but it doesn't tell me what > program. How can I tell? A darker response than the other fine answers is: Run nessus from another box. Nessus will tell you what service is running on the port, rather than what a program will identify itself as. The surprise of finding out that ssh is running on port 113 is not as great as the wrench in the stomach of figuring out you've been hacked. Conversly, having nessus confirm that everything is what it seems to be is very reassuring. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: Pete: Waiter, this meat is bad. Waiter: Who told you? Pete: A little swallow. From freyley at gmx.net Fri Feb 6 23:05:02 2004 From: freyley at gmx.net (Jeff Schwaber) Date: Fri Feb 6 23:05:02 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: <1076137456.16908.5.camel@localhost> > Yes, you're wasting keystrokes. :-) The long answer is that you could > save yourself time in the long run by > > 1. wrapping your X or terminal session in ssh-agent > 2. load your key into memory using ssh-add I'd really like to use ssh-agent and ssh-add, but I regularly have to ssh through a couple of machines to get places, and nothing I've done has enabled ssh-agent to let me do that without typing my passphrase at each step. Any ideas, anyone? Jeff From chris at maybe.net Fri Feb 6 23:13:01 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Fri Feb 6 23:13:01 2004 Subject: OT: ssh passphrases (was Re: [PLUG] rsync) In-Reply-To: <1076137456.16908.5.camel@localhost> References: <1075932063.12706.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> <86ptcttysj.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <16418.26097.335074.338921@eris.dischordia.net> <1076137456.16908.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040207071218.GP14378@maybe.net> On Fri, Feb 06, 2004 at 11:04:16PM -0800, Jeff Schwaber wrote: > > Yes, you're wasting keystrokes. :-) The long answer is that you could > > save yourself time in the long run by > > > > 1. wrapping your X or terminal session in ssh-agent > > 2. load your key into memory using ssh-add > > I'd really like to use ssh-agent and ssh-add, but I regularly have to > ssh through a couple of machines to get places, and nothing I've done > has enabled ssh-agent to let me do that without typing my passphrase at > each step. Any ideas, anyone? Set "ForwardAgent Yes" in your .ssh/config at each stage of your journey. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jon at manymoons.net Sat Feb 7 00:03:02 2004 From: jon at manymoons.net (Jon Jacob) Date: Sat Feb 7 00:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails Message-ID: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> I don't know if this is just me or what, but I have had a ton of bounced emails returned to me although I did not send them. I run a mail server on my home network and my other user is getting them too. The thing is, as best I can tell, the headers show my domain but not the right IP. I am certainly no expert but I am surprised that someone can forge the domain and the IP is not checked. How can I prevent the bounced mails from coming back to me, or am I just caught in someone's evil plot to destroy bandwidth or sell male genitalia enlargers? -- Jon Jacob From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Sat Feb 7 00:10:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Sat Feb 7 00:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> Message-ID: <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 00:02, Jon Jacob wrote: > How can I prevent the bounced mails from coming back to me, or am I just > caught in someone's evil plot to destroy bandwidth or sell male > genitalia enlargers? It those helpful sysadmins who automatically send bounce messages for virus generated e-mails. I get more bounce messages than spam some days. Since you're not sending the e-mail, the only way I can imagine not to see them is to sort the bounce messages out and toss them. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Sat Feb 7 00:11:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Sat Feb 7 00:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> Message-ID: <14933-99674@sneakemail.com> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jon Jacob jon-at-manymoons.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > I don't know if this is just me or what, but I have had a ton of bounced > emails returned to me although I did not send them. I run a mail server > on my home network and my other user is getting them too. It's not just you. The latest thing for spammers and viruses seems to be to include From: addresses that appear either in the list of spam targets or in the case of viruses, the infected computer's address book. I've been hit pretty hard too. I had no idea I was on so many people's address lists! ;-) > How can I prevent the bounced mails from coming back to me, or am I just > caught in someone's evil plot to destroy bandwidth or sell male > genitalia enlargers? The latter. Paul Heinlein posted a very nice reply on this topic yesterday with the subject "Re: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii". -- Steve From jon at manymoons.net Sat Feb 7 00:15:02 2004 From: jon at manymoons.net (Jon Jacob) Date: Sat Feb 7 00:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> > It those helpful sysadmins who automatically send bounce messages for > virus generated e-mails. I get more bounce messages than spam some days. > > Since you're not sending the e-mail, the only way I can imagine not to > see them is to sort the bounce messages out and toss them. Man, what took you so long to respond :) I could easily sort out the bounced messages but then how do NOT sort out the legit ones? That really is not the important question though. Why isn't the IP checked and the domain taken for granted? I am surprised by that. -- Jon Jacob From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 7 07:27:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 7 07:27:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> Message-ID: <20040207152652.GC4973@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 12:02:57AM -0800, Jon Jacob wrote: > The thing is, as best I can tell, the headers show my domain but not the > right IP. I am certainly no expert but I am surprised that someone can > forge the domain and the IP is not checked. Doing so would make your universe very small: If you reject email because DNS and rDNS don't match, you eliminate all but maybe something like 5% of all mail servers out there. > How can I prevent the bounced mails from coming back to me, or am I > just caught in someone's evil plot to destroy bandwidth or sell male > genitalia enlargers? Kill all windows users. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJQO8UzgNqloQMwcRAsSOAKC8l5B5zMXBCQmvao87Tw5Z0un3qwCgrWOx J4q1aJ4dbxifgbuHq/PLPi4= =WdPD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 7 07:29:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 7 07:29:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <14933-99674@sneakemail.com> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <14933-99674@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20040207152821.GD4973@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 12:09:55AM -0800, Steve Bonds wrote: > Paul Heinlein posted a very nice reply on this topic yesterday with the > subject "Re: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii". That being said, why didn't the original poster bother to RTFArchives like he should have? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJQQVUzgNqloQMwcRAl4VAJ4nTvOUotklurDXkhGX413GNQdImgCg5i3V 8feGkgaISaIdiuu/fwegUCA= =RILj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 7 07:46:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 7 07:46:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jon Jacob wrote: > I don't know if this is just me or what, but I have had a ton of bounced > emails returned to me although I did not send them. I run a mail server > on my home network and my other user is getting them too. Welcome to the wonderful world of the MyDoom Microsoft virus. I've been getting a ton of messages that are supposedly 'bounced' back to me although I never sent them. That was the subject of my message about anti-virus checkers responding to the username.domain rather than confirming the IP address. > How can I prevent the bounced mails from coming back to me, or am I just > caught in someone's evil plot to destroy bandwidth or sell male genitalia > enlargers? You can't prevent them from traveling the 'Net but you can set your MTA to filter them out before they get in the door. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 7 07:48:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 7 07:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jon Jacob wrote: > I could easily sort out the bounced messages but then how do NOT sort out > the legit ones? That really is not the important question though. Why > isn't the IP checked and the domain taken for granted? I am surprised by > that. There are certain words and phrases common to the undesired, phoney 'bounces' that do not appear in a legitimate message. You can filter by the header (generally the Subject: line) or body content. I do both. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From ryan at 1138.net Sat Feb 7 08:03:01 2004 From: ryan at 1138.net (ryan at 1138.net) Date: Sat Feb 7 08:03:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> Message-ID: <20040207160214.986.qmail@mail1.aqfl.com> > Why isn't the IP checked and the domain taken for granted? I am > surprised by that. > You're not alone. http://spf.pobox.com/ is an example of a solution being worked on to this sticky problem. But SMTP is broken in this regard. From poor02 at bejay.com Sat Feb 7 09:05:02 2004 From: poor02 at bejay.com (Barbara Pfieffer) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:05:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Getting startx to work again Message-ID: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> I run Debian unstable and somehow, I've messed up my startx. I prefer to login to console then type startx, which runs Kde3, my preferred desktop. Lately I can't do that, startx gets a generic xterm and that's all. To get Kde, I have to su to root and run kdm, which I don't really need. Any suggestions on how to get startx working again? Thanks! Barbara From wcooley at nakedape.cc Sat Feb 7 09:06:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> Message-ID: <1076173509.20069.259.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 00:02, Jon Jacob wrote: > I don't know if this is just me or what, but I have had a ton of bounced > emails returned to me although I did not send them. I run a mail server > on my home network and my other user is getting them too. While your complaint is consistent with MyDoom, as has already been pointed out, it's also possiple that you have become the victim of a "Joe Job"--where spam is sent with your domain in the From:, so all bounces go to you. http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/J/joe-job.html Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * AIX Support & Service http://nakedape.cc/r/aix * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 7 09:12:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:12:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <20040207160214.986.qmail@mail1.aqfl.com> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> <20040207160214.986.qmail@mail1.aqfl.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 ryan at 1138.net wrote: > You're not alone. http://spf.pobox.com/ is an example of a solution being > worked on to this sticky problem. But SMTP is broken in this regard. If I read the Web pages correctly, this SPF is designed for ISPs, particularly large ISPs. I suspect that there would be no benefit accruing to me with our two users here on our domain. Is this correct? TIA, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From wcooley at nakedape.cc Sat Feb 7 09:13:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Getting startx to work again In-Reply-To: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> References: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> Message-ID: <1076173978.20069.265.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 09:04, Barbara Pfieffer wrote: > I run Debian unstable and somehow, I've messed up my startx. I prefer to login > to console then type startx, which runs Kde3, my preferred desktop. Lately I > can't do that, startx gets a generic xterm and that's all. To get Kde, I have > to su to root and run kdm, which I don't really need. > > Any suggestions on how to get startx working again? Thanks! It sounds like 'startx' is working okay to start the server, but it's not starting your session. Does the xterm that comes up have an ugly green or pink decoration around it? If so, it's probably starting 'twm' for some reason. Check the ~/.xinitrc file and ~/.Xclients*. If none of these have the 'startkde' command, then one needs to, but if there's anything that looks like another window manager, you'll need to remove it. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * AIX Support & Service http://nakedape.cc/r/aix * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 7 09:16:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:16:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Getting startx to work again In-Reply-To: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> References: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Barbara Pfieffer wrote: > I run Debian unstable and somehow, I've messed up my startx. I prefer to login > to console then type startx, which runs Kde3, my preferred desktop. Lately I > can't do that, startx gets a generic xterm and that's all. To get Kde, I have > to su to root and run kdm, which I don't really need. > > Any suggestions on how to get startx working again? Thanks! Barbara, Make any changes to ~/.xinitrc? Any interesting messages in /var/log/messages? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 7 09:27:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Getting startx to work again In-Reply-To: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> References: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> Message-ID: <20040207172645.GA14964@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Please wrap your lines at something lower than 80 columns, 72 preferred. On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 09:04:41AM -0800, Barbara Pfieffer wrote: > Any suggestions on how to get startx working again? Thanks! dpkg-reconfigure -plow xserver-xfree86 - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJR/VUzgNqloQMwcRAne6AJ40mHshA0g7k03jev00qxrPp1MjAgCeIDY9 /+j5mJCx3hMrj8WcWeWsqXE= =rIy3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From plug at Blain.org Sat Feb 7 09:27:08 2004 From: plug at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:27:08 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Getting startx to work again In-Reply-To: <1076173978.20069.265.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <200402070904.41078.poor02@bejay.com> <1076173978.20069.265.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1076174834.15257.3.camel@dizzy.blain.org> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 11:12, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 09:04, Barbara Pfieffer wrote: > > I run Debian unstable and somehow, I've messed up my startx. I prefer to login > > to console then type startx, which runs Kde3, my preferred desktop. Lately I > > can't do that, startx gets a generic xterm and that's all. To get Kde, I have > > to su to root and run kdm, which I don't really need. > > > > Any suggestions on how to get startx working again? Thanks! > > It sounds like 'startx' is working okay to start the server, but it's > not starting your session. Does the xterm that comes up have an ugly > green or pink decoration around it? If so, it's probably starting 'twm' > for some reason. Check the ~/.xinitrc file and ~/.Xclients*. If none > of these have the 'startkde' command, then one needs to, but if there's > anything that looks like another window manager, you'll need to remove > it. Your .xinitrc file should look something like this. #!/bin/sh /usr/bin/startkde The "Debian" way of doing this is to use update-alternatives. Look in you /etc/alternatives and 'man update-alternatives' for more information. Jeff From ali at axian.com Sat Feb 7 09:57:02 2004 From: ali at axian.com (Alice Corbin) Date: Sat Feb 7 09:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <14933-99674@sneakemail.com>; from 1s7k8uhcd001@sneakemail.com on Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 12:09:55AM -0800 References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <14933-99674@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20040207095537.A16386@zaphod.axian.com> On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 12:09:55AM -0800, Steve Bonds wrote: > On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jon Jacob jon-at-manymoons.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > > > I don't know if this is just me or what, but I have had a ton of bounced > > emails returned to me although I did not send them. I run a mail server > > on my home network and my other user is getting them too. > > It's not just you. The latest thing for spammers and viruses seems to be > to include From: addresses that appear either in the list of spam targets > or in the case of viruses, the infected computer's address book. > > I've been hit pretty hard too. I had no idea I was on so many people's > address lists! ;-) > When this latest avalanche was first starting, I'd look at the To: field and wonder "Now who do I know who knows this person?". I'm thinking that if someone figured out a way to track this virus, we could get a pretty good map of social connectivity. Ali From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Sat Feb 7 11:42:01 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Sat Feb 7 11:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ISA bus and network card Message-ID: <1076183091.7915.8.camel@timmy> I just got my hands on an old machine with an ISA NIC and modem. I don't care about the modem, but I really would like the NIC to work. It appears to me that neither of my install mediums (gentoo basic livecd or debian boot-floppies) include support for the ISA bus. However, I don't know for sure. lspci says there's an ISA bridge, but doesn't show any information about anything on the bridge. The card itself does light up when I stick a cable in it, so it would appear that the hardware isn't a problem. How can I (1) determine if my kernel supports ISA, (2) make it support ISA, and (3) get my NIC to work? Thanks, Evan From chris at maybe.net Sat Feb 7 12:37:01 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Sat Feb 7 12:37:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ISA bus and network card In-Reply-To: <1076183091.7915.8.camel@timmy> References: <1076183091.7915.8.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <20040207203618.GK14378@maybe.net> On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 11:44:52AM -0800, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > However, I > don't know for sure. lspci says there's an ISA bridge, but doesn't show > any information about anything on the bridge. That's not generally possible. If it happens to be PnP (and not many network cards that I know of were), you can use isapnptools and the pnpdump program to figure more out, but all PCI will tell you is that there is a bridge, not what's behind it. > How can I (1) determine if my kernel supports ISA, (2) make it support > ISA, and (3) get my NIC to work? It's highly doubtful they left out ISA. Extremely doubtful. To get your NIC to work, you need to figure out what chipset it uses. Look for distinguishing features and/or chips on the card and ask us or Google. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kgmorse at mpcu.com Sat Feb 7 12:53:02 2004 From: kgmorse at mpcu.com (Keith Morse) Date: Sat Feb 7 12:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > I've received quite a few reports in the past week or so that tell me a > MyDoom-virus infected message was intercepted from me to someone I don't > know at a domain I didn't know existed. Of course the From: address is > spoofed but the originating IP address is valie. > > Don't any of the automatic spam-checking applications confirm that the > name/domain matches the IP address? I presume that these messages are sent > automatically without any human intervention. > In the FWIW column, I've been setting up several instances of Symantec's Anti Virus for Microsoft Exchange and by default notification is turned for sender and recipient. From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 7 15:25:03 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 7 15:25:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040207232456.GA11655@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 12:52:45PM -0800, Keith Morse wrote: > In the FWIW column, I've been setting up several instances of Symantec's > Anti Virus for Microsoft Exchange and by default notification is turned > for sender and recipient. Now if spamcop.net would only allow these to be reported through them...they serve no purpose other than to spam for the products... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJXPIUzgNqloQMwcRAvGtAJ9WGv/TU2sIURPW+uae7imSwUb0SgCfS8DM UuF3j/g0qSe95xpK2HUDW3A= =yHnh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From josh at emediatedesigns.com Sat Feb 7 15:38:01 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Sat Feb 7 15:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] alias users In-Reply-To: References: <3083.216.99.218.67.1076043419.squirrel@sautez.com><4023C94A.40001@easystreet.com> <2565.134.244.174.76.1076107955.squirrel@sautez.com> <2869.134.244.174.76.1076111568.squirrel@sautez.com> Message-ID: <4886.216.99.218.67.1076197098.squirrel@sautez.com> > Josh, > > Well, you've exceeded my knowledge of how the real world works. > Someone > else will need to guide you from here. > > Rich Rich, Very funny. I just had one conversation with one customer and he has no problem. Just wants to arrange a time. The real world is a strange place but I do try to pay attention. Thanks for the help. Josh From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 7 16:42:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 7 16:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? Message-ID: My good ol' Kensington Orbit trackball is acting balky. I've castrated it and checked for impacted threads and the usual culprits that cause it to drag and jump instead of smoothly tracking across the screen. Nothing there that I haven't cleaned out. I just put some alcohol on the two rollers in case they had warn smooth. Could these devices just plumb wear out? I've had this guy for at least 5.5 years and it's really nice to use. But, trying to do fine movements when creating illustrations in tgif is an exercise in frustration because of the jumpy movements. Any thoughts? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From ed at alcpress.com Sat Feb 7 17:21:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Sat Feb 7 17:21:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> <20040207160214.986.qmail@mail1.aqfl.com> Message-ID: <1076203800.526.56.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 09:11, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 ryan at 1138.net wrote: > > > You're not alone. http://spf.pobox.com/ is an example of a solution being > > worked on to this sticky problem. But SMTP is broken in this regard. > > If I read the Web pages correctly, this SPF is designed for ISPs, > particularly large ISPs. I suspect that there would be no benefit accruing > to me with our two users here on our domain. Is this correct? It would not hurt to add the SPF TXT record to your DNS even though your SMTP server didn't support SPF. Other mail servers that do support SPF would be able to determine whether e-mail messages with your e-mail address were, in fact, from you. If the messages were spam, they would know to block the servers sending the spam instead of putting your e-mail address in their black lists. Ed > > TIA, > > Rich From galens at seitzassoc.com Sat Feb 7 17:25:02 2004 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Sat Feb 7 17:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 07 Feb 2004 16:40:47 PST." Message-ID: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Rich Shepard wrote: > My good ol' Kensington Orbit trackball is acting balky. I've castrated it > and checked for impacted threads and the usual culprits that cause it to > drag and jump instead of smoothly tracking across the screen. Nothing there > that I haven't cleaned out. I just put some alcohol on the two rollers in > case they had warn smooth. > > Could these devices just plumb wear out? I've had this guy for at least > 5.5 years and it's really nice to use. But, trying to do fine movements when > creating illustrations in tgif is an exercise in frustration because of the > jumpy movements. It seems unlikely that it would degrade as you describe. I would expect a hard failure. Are you certain that you cleaned _everything_? I suppose the LEDs in the opto circuitry could be getting weak, but I think dust is a much more likely culprit. Is the trackball the old slotted wheel type, or does it have LEDs aimed at a speckled ball? If the former, make certain that you have gotten all of the dust out of the optos. If it's a speckled ball, you probably got it as clean as it can get. It may really be dying. galen From ed at alcpress.com Sat Feb 7 17:27:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Sat Feb 7 17:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> Message-ID: <1076204178.526.63.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 07:46, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Jon Jacob wrote: > > > I could easily sort out the bounced messages but then how do NOT sort out > > the legit ones? That really is not the important question though. Why > > isn't the IP checked and the domain taken for granted? I am surprised by > > that. > > There are certain words and phrases common to the undesired, phoney > 'bounces' that do not appear in a legitimate message. You can filter by the > header (generally the Subject: line) or body content. I do both. Yes, but at some point Postfix will be spending so much time checking header and body content that Postfix will start misbehaving. I already reached that point. I had to either use a faster computer or stop doing as much header checking. Given that there didn't seem to be an end to the creative ways that spammers were coming up with Subject lines, I cut back on header checking. Ed From ron at nutriware.com Sat Feb 7 18:14:02 2004 From: ron at nutriware.com (Ron Braithwaite) Date: Sat Feb 7 18:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <1076206408.2874.14.camel@athena.freegeek.org> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 17:24, Galen Seitz wrote: > Rich Shepard wrote: > > Could these devices just plumb wear out? I've had this guy for at least > > 5.5 years and it's really nice to use. > > It seems unlikely that it would degrade as you describe. I would expect > a hard failure. Are you certain that you cleaned _everything_? I suppose > the LEDs in the opto circuitry could be getting weak, but I think dust > is a much more likely culprit. Is the trackball the old slotted wheel > type, or does it have LEDs aimed at a speckled ball? If the former, > make certain that you have gotten all of the dust out of the optos. If > it's a speckled ball, you probably got it as clean as it can get. It > may really be dying. I will bet that it uses those little rollers and I'll bet the little itty bitty bearings in those really little rollers have just about given up the ghost. Of course, if it really is optical, then its something else again. -Ron -- root> gawk, date, finger, wait, unzip, touch, nice, suck, strip, mount, fsck, umount, make clean, sleep Who needs porno when you've got Linux? From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 7 18:34:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 7 18:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076203800.526.56.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> <20040207160214.986.qmail@mail1.aqfl.com> <1076203800.526.56.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: <20040208023330.GA22469@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 05:30:01PM -0800, Ed Sawicki wrote: > Other mail servers that do support SPF would be able to determine > whether e-mail messages with your e-mail address were, in fact, from > you. Didn't OpenPGP solve this problem better? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJZ/6UzgNqloQMwcRAkyfAJ90UrQBH/mwEeR+Vc3jfsFrR/d77wCdHghK UkNnsYd3EIudHzdgayiIeiE= =NDAJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 7 18:37:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 7 18:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040208023626.GB22469@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 04:40:47PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Could these devices just plumb wear out? Any mechanical device from your car's brakes to gun safeties to mice wear out. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJaCqUzgNqloQMwcRAjNhAJwN9mzJqjXFN7g5c+3Tc2CpBY79TwCgtgBA PTS1olGTbGqpoehkvZEWicI= =Tz0H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alex at daniloff.com Sat Feb 7 19:34:01 2004 From: alex at daniloff.com (Alex Daniloff) Date: Sat Feb 7 19:34:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402071930.12241.alex@daniloff.com> I had a similar situation with my beloved Kensington Expert Trackball after six years of trouble free usage. What I've noticed, that the resistance across its LEDs had increased, due to physical depletion in the p-n-p structures. Thus they emit less light needed for IR receiver to operate reliably. I've replaced both current limiting resistors on these LED with the smaller ones and my trackball operates as good as new. Just my 0.02 c Alex On Saturday 07 February 2004 04:40 pm, Rich Shepard wrote: > My good ol' Kensington Orbit trackball is acting balky. I've castrated it > and checked for impacted threads and the usual culprits that cause it to > drag and jump instead of smoothly tracking across the screen. Nothing there > that I haven't cleaned out. I just put some alcohol on the two rollers in > case they had warn smooth. > > Could these devices just plumb wear out? I've had this guy for at least > 5.5 years and it's really nice to use. But, trying to do fine movements > when creating illustrations in tgif is an exercise in frustration because > of the jumpy movements. > > Any thoughts? > > Rich From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Sat Feb 7 19:56:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Sat Feb 7 19:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ISA bus and network card In-Reply-To: <20040207203618.GK14378@maybe.net> References: <1076183091.7915.8.camel@timmy> <20040207203618.GK14378@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1076212697.27671.11.camel@timmy> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 12:36, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 11:44:52AM -0800, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > > However, I > > don't know for sure. lspci says there's an ISA bridge, but doesn't show > > any information about anything on the bridge. > > That's not generally possible. Thanks for confirming that not seeing it in lspci is normal. I pulled it out, found the name and model number, did some googling, type modprobe ne, and now it works! Thanks, Evan From kgmorse at mpcu.com Sat Feb 7 23:09:01 2004 From: kgmorse at mpcu.com (Keith Morse) Date: Sat Feb 7 23:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Re: On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <20040207232456.GA11655@ursine.ca> References: <20040207232456.GA11655@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 12:52:45PM -0800, Keith Morse wrote: > > In the FWIW column, I've been setting up several instances of Symantec's > > Anti Virus for Microsoft Exchange and by default notification is turned > > for sender and recipient. > > Now if spamcop.net would only allow these to be reported through > them...they serve no purpose other than to spam for the products... Well that's one approach. Personally, I just turn off the notification. From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 8 01:01:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 8 01:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] On the topic of spam & MS-virii In-Reply-To: <20040207014003.GB1880@ursine.ca> References: <20040207014003.GB1880@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > And if you're insulted by this, GOOD. You should be, I'm speaking > directly to you. [snip] > Need a server monkey? I'm cheap! Do you expect anyone to hire a person who treats others like this? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 8 08:22:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 8 08:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Galen Seitz wrote: > It seems unlikely that it would degrade as you describe. I would expect > a hard failure. Are you certain that you cleaned _everything_? I suppose > the LEDs in the opto circuitry could be getting weak, but I think dust > is a much more likely culprit. Is the trackball the old slotted wheel > type, or does it have LEDs aimed at a speckled ball? If the former, > make certain that you have gotten all of the dust out of the optos. If > it's a speckled ball, you probably got it as clean as it can get. It > may really be dying. galen, Yes, it was a transient failure. Swabbing the rubber tires on the two wheels (there are pseudo saphires for bearings, no LEDs as far as I know) and running the Q-tip(R) around the inside of the container seems to have done the job. At least after letting the alcohol evaporate over night. It's a smooth, plastic ball and two thin rods (one along the right side the other along the "bottom" side) which turn as the ball is rotated. I use a magnifying headset and spinter foreceps to clean out the threads and other cruft that occasionally wraps around the rods and prevents them from moving. This time they were whistle clean. That's when I washed the ball and wrote to ask if these things do wear out. Then it occurred to me that the rubber on the wheels might be worn smooth and slipping on the ball. Washed the ball with soap and water and used the alcohol to roughen the wheels. Of course, I was also trying to get some work done at the time so I didn't see results right away. When I first had to use a pointy device for mapping software, about 10-11 years ago, I soon came down with tendinitis from the mouse. After getting that cured with acupuncture I have used a trackball ever since and can't see using anything else. Of course, no such device beats the keyboard, but there are needs for such devices so I like to use the one that's easiest on my body. Many thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 8 08:25:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 8 08:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040208023626.GB22469@ursine.ca> References: <20040208023626.GB22469@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > Any mechanical device from your car's brakes to gun safeties to mice > wear out. Paul, Take note of all the old Okidata 19x series dot-matrix printers still working in retail stores after 20+ years. :-) Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 8 08:27:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 8 08:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plethora of bounced emails In-Reply-To: <1076203800.526.56.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1076140977.18721.67.camel@lana> <1076141363.2509.36.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076141641.18722.71.camel@lana> <20040207160214.986.qmail@mail1.aqfl.com> <1076203800.526.56.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Ed Sawicki wrote: > It would not hurt to add the SPF TXT record to your DNS even though your > SMTP server didn't support SPF. Other mail servers that do support SPF > would be able to determine whether e-mail messages with your e-mail > address were, in fact, from you. If the messages were spam, they would > know to block the servers sending the spam instead of putting your e-mail > address in their black lists. Ed, When I finish the transition to the new box and finish installing tinyDNS I'll add the SPF txt record. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From sharbours at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 08:50:03 2004 From: sharbours at yahoo.com (Sean, Sharon and Kyle Harbour) Date: Sun Feb 8 08:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plug talk/Install fest on MythTV? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040208164941.59006.qmail@web14427.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dan Haskell wrote: > You are defintely welcome to do an install fest at the Clinic. Bear > in > mind, however, that our volunteers are probably not MythTV gurus. > > The Clinic will be held on February 21st. > > Dan Understood. Most of the minor problems I'm running into are from not having an adequate understanding of, for instance, how the sound mixer system works so I can change the default settings to stick after a reboot. It's just 10 or so little things like this I would appreciate help on, and perhaps give help on similiar issues I've encountered. Anyway, I'm hoping we can drum up at least a few more people interested in recording TV with their linux boxes to come to the clinic, and not necessarily with the MythTV project. There are a few related projects out there now that are starting to mature. Any takers? Sean Harbour __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From galens at seitzassoc.com Sun Feb 8 09:28:01 2004 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Sun Feb 8 09:28:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 08 Feb 2004 08:21:03 PST." Message-ID: <20040208172724.46B048EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Rich Shepard wrote: > > Yes, it was a transient failure. Swabbing the rubber tires on the two > wheels (there are pseudo saphires for bearings, no LEDs as far as I know) > and running the Q-tip(R) around the inside of the container seems to have > done the job. At least after letting the alcohol evaporate over night. > > It's a smooth, plastic ball and two thin rods (one along the right side > the other along the "bottom" side) which turn as the ball is rotated. I use > a magnifying headset and spinter foreceps to clean out the threads and other > cruft that occasionally wraps around the rods and prevents them from moving. > This time they were whistle clean. My guess is that the two thin rods are mechanically coupled to a slotted wheel. The slotted wheel turns inside an opto interrupter. This is how ball movement gets turned into electrical signals. If dust were to make its way into the wheel or opto, it could cause problems such as you described. It sounds like you found the problem though. galen From sasha_romanosky at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 10:44:01 2004 From: sasha_romanosky at yahoo.com (Sasha Romanosky) Date: Sun Feb 8 10:44:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plug talk/Install fest on MythTV? In-Reply-To: <20040208164941.59006.qmail@web14427.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201c3ee73$741fb2b0$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> I wouldn't be able to make it this month, but possibly next. sasha > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Sean, > Sharon and Kyle Harbour > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 8:50 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: [PLUG] Re: Plug talk/Install fest on MythTV? > > > > --- Dan Haskell wrote: > > > You are defintely welcome to do an install fest at the > Clinic. Bear in > > mind, however, that our volunteers are probably not MythTV gurus. > > > > The Clinic will be held on February 21st. > > > > Dan > > Understood. Most of the minor problems I'm running into are > from not having an adequate understanding of, for instance, > how the sound mixer system works so I can change the default > settings to stick after a reboot. It's just 10 or so little > things like this I would appreciate help on, and perhaps give > help on similiar issues I've encountered. > > Anyway, I'm hoping we can drum up at least a few more people > interested in recording TV with their linux boxes to come to > the clinic, and not necessarily with the MythTV project. > There are a few related projects out there now that are > starting to mature. > > Any takers? > > Sean Harbour > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 8 10:58:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 8 10:58:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040208172724.46B048EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040208172724.46B048EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Galen Seitz wrote: > My guess is that the two thin rods are mechanically coupled to a slotted > wheel. The slotted wheel turns inside an opto interrupter. This is how > ball movement gets turned into electrical signals. If dust were to make > its way into the wheel or opto, it could cause problems such as you > described. It sounds like you found the problem though. galen, This certainly looks reasonable. I've never delved into the guts of the trackball; I gave up taking things apart just to see how they work when I was about 8 years old. Guess that's why I didn't become an engineer. :-) Many thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From chris at maybe.net Sun Feb 8 12:29:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Sun Feb 8 12:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <20040208023626.GB22469@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040208202854.GL14378@maybe.net> On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 08:23:31AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > Any mechanical device from your car's brakes to gun safeties to mice > > wear out. > > Take note of all the old Okidata 19x series dot-matrix printers still > working in retail stores after 20+ years. :-) If I were in your shoes, I'd still considering getting a new one. :-) Some of the newer Kensington's are amazing -- a bazillion buttons, wireless, USB, what-have-you. On the other side, my Logitech trackball was optical before Microsoft brought it to the mouse. All I have to do is clean off the teflon support posts from time to time. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ramunro at speakeasy.net Sun Feb 8 13:33:02 2004 From: ramunro at speakeasy.net (Robert Munro) Date: Sun Feb 8 13:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? Message-ID: <1076275958.3399.29.camel@griffin> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:36:26 -0800, Paul Johnson observed: > > On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 04:40:47PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Could these devices just plumb wear out? > > Any mechanical device from your car's brakes to gun safeties to mice > wear out. > Yes, including electro-mechanical devices. I have an original Microsoft Mouse from about 1990 that cost (my employer) nearly $100 then. But it had acquired the bad habit of emitting spurious clicks. I just replaced it with a generic PS/2 mouse labeled "Made in China", $5 at Fred Meyers. Rich, you might find that a new optical trackball is rather inexpensive, compared to your time and hassle for diagnosing and repairing the Orbit. Regards, Robert Munro -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From aschlemm at comcast.net Sun Feb 8 13:41:02 2004 From: aschlemm at comcast.net (Anthony Schlemmer) Date: Sun Feb 8 13:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402081340.08927.aschlemm@comcast.net> Gee and I thought my 3 button Logitech mouse from circa 1997 was a fossil. Nice to see other people holding on to still working "antique" hardware. :-) My Logitech mouse had some small rollers that the ball would run and they finally wore out after 6 1/2 years of near constant use and the pointer movement wasn't very good anymore. I was at Office Depot a few months ago and picked up a new, "plain white", Logitech optical mouse with the scroll wheel for my Linux workstation. All I can say is I wish I had gotten an optical mouse sooner as it's so much smoother than the old ball mouse I had. I also feel a but dumb not getting a mouse with a scroll wheel sooner as well. All those extra miles of dragging a mouse across the desk to scroll through windows and I could have had my finger doing all of the walking instead. I admit to hating the first optical mouse I ever had to use which were those odd ones that Sun had on their workstations. They only worked on that reflective pad and it really turned me off of optical mice in general back in those days. I recall always asking my employer for a mouse with a ball when they were giving me a Sun workstation to use. Tony On Saturday 07 February 2004 16:40 pm, Rich Shepard wrote: > My good ol' Kensington Orbit trackball is acting balky. I've > castrated it and checked for impacted threads and the usual culprits > that cause it to drag and jump instead of smoothly tracking across > the screen. Nothing there that I haven't cleaned out. I just put some > alcohol on the two rollers in case they had warn smooth. > > Could these devices just plumb wear out? I've had this guy for at > least 5.5 years and it's really nice to use. But, trying to do fine > movements when creating illustrations in tgif is an exercise in > frustration because of the jumpy movements. > > Any thoughts? > > Rich -- Anthony Schlemmer aschlemm at comcast.net From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 8 18:23:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 8 18:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora, network config tool fails Message-ID: <1076293378.1600.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> I just installed Fedora1 on a laptop and everything seemed to work beautifully until I tried to connect to another computer on the LAN. It failed to ping, in fact it didn't think it was connected to a network. ifconfig revealed that eth0's broadcast and netmask addresses were wrong, netstat -r revealed that it had no default route. When I started main menu::system services::network, it threw up a little info box that said, "Static routes file eth0 is invalid". I can make it work with ifconfig and route so there's no hardware problem. Does anyone understand this) (I changed some incorrect stuff in /etc/sysconfig/network/.., but it still didn't work.) -- Bill Spears From kens at kens.cad2cam.com Sun Feb 8 19:02:02 2004 From: kens at kens.cad2cam.com (Kenneth G. Stephens) Date: Sun Feb 8 19:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora, network config tool fails In-Reply-To: <1076293378.1600.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076293378.1600.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076295698.32534.9.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> On Sun, 2004-02-08 at 18:22, Bill Spears wrote: > I just installed Fedora1 on a laptop and everything seemed to work > beautifully until I tried to connect to another computer on the LAN. It > failed to ping, in fact it didn't think it was connected to a network. > ifconfig revealed that eth0's broadcast and netmask addresses were > wrong, netstat -r revealed that it had no default route. > > When I started main menu::system services::network, it threw up a little > info box that said, "Static routes file eth0 is invalid". > > I can make it work with ifconfig and route so there's no hardware > problem. Does anyone understand this) (I changed some incorrect stuff > in /etc/sysconfig/network/.., but it still didn't work.) > -- > Bill Spears The configuration files for eth0 are in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 If you use a RedHat utility to configure the eth0, you may find some cruft in /etc/sysconfig/networking. Not yet familiar with Fedora, just RedHat stuff. Ken CAD2CAM.COM From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Sun Feb 8 22:40:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Sun Feb 8 22:40:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] stupid vi question In-Reply-To: <20040201060752.GA3832@kippered.herring.org> References: <401C36BA.9000807@brianquade.net> <20040201060752.GA3832@kippered.herring.org> Message-ID: <1076308727.4674.7.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 22:07, Sandy Herring wrote: > As Matt pointed out, you can do a failed search to get rid of the > highlighting on an adhoc basis. You can also, > > :noh To clarify, from the vim help guide (:help :noh) :noh[lsearch] Stop the highlighting for the 'hlsearch' option. It is automatically turned back on when using a search command, or setting the 'hlsearch' option. This command doesn't work in an autocommand, because the highlighting state is saved and restored when executing autocommands |autocmd-searchpat|. So if you want to get rid of the current search, use /sjsjsjsj or :noh This is more useful than editing vimrc IMHO since if you switch systems, this still works, whereas .vimrc will require fore-action. BTW the # cause the links due to: # Same as "*", but search backward. The pound sign (character 163) also works. If the "#" key works as backspace, try using "stty erase " before starting Vim ( is CTRL-H or a real backspace). {not in Vi} and forto solve the reference to * * Search forward for the [count]'th occurrence of the word nearest to the cursor. The word used for the search is the first of: 1. the keyword under the cursor |'iskeyword'| 2. the first keyword after the cursor, in the current line 3. the non-blank word under the cursor 4. the first non-blank word after the cursor, in the current line Only whole keywords are searched for, like with the command "/\". (exclusive) {not in Vi} 'ignorecase' is used, 'smartcase' is not. This is a feature I have not used. I might. Though with VI in a term windows, it is easy to double click the pointer, hit :, middle bottun, enter...... > > hth, > Sandy -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From drl at drloree.com Sun Feb 8 23:41:02 2004 From: drl at drloree.com (Derek Loree) Date: Sun Feb 8 23:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <1076312604.1435.4.camel@fastlinux.homenet> On Sun, 2004-02-08 at 08:21, Rich Shepard wrote: [snip] > That's when I washed the ball and wrote to ask if these things do wear > out. > > Then it occurred to me that the rubber on the wheels might be worn smooth > and slipping on the ball. Washed the ball with soap and water and used the > alcohol to roughen the wheels. I've heard of WD-40 also doing a good job of softening up the rubber and getting the glaze off (wipe of the excess of course). It will also clean water out of the inside of automobile spark distributors. Don't go anywhere without it! Good Luck, Derek Loree From root at loraksus.org Mon Feb 9 00:52:02 2004 From: root at loraksus.org (Karol Kulaga) Date: Mon Feb 9 00:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <200402081340.08927.aschlemm@comcast.net> Message-ID: <115D2FF331CE@loraksus.org> Dexxa 3 button serial mouse. I got it June 1990 for my 286 at a "trades for grades" thingy a local computer store was doing (you know, when computer stores were still small). Switched it out only a couple days ago on a server here because I got an optical and the "mouse replacement hierarchy" knocked it to the extra computer stuff box. Can anyone beat me? Just curious. From guy1656 at ados.com Mon Feb 9 07:01:02 2004 From: guy1656 at ados.com (GLL) Date: Mon Feb 9 07:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Traditional Japanese vi question In-Reply-To: <1076308727.4674.7.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <401C36BA.9000807@brianquade.net> <20040201060752.GA3832@kippered.herring.org> <1076308727.4674.7.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <200402090703.08133.guy1656@ados.com> On Sunday 08 February 2004 22:38, Zot O'Connor wrote: : > As Matt pointed out, you can do a failed search to get rid of the : > highlighting on an adhoc basis. You can also : > : > :noh Can you 'kabuki' in vi as well? - GLL From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 9 07:15:03 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 9 07:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <1076312604.1435.4.camel@fastlinux.homenet> References: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1076312604.1435.4.camel@fastlinux.homenet> Message-ID: <20040209151416.GB31469@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 11:43:24PM -0800, Derek Loree wrote: > I've heard of WD-40 also doing a good job of softening up the rubber and > getting the glaze off (wipe of the excess of course). It will also > clean water out of the inside of automobile spark distributors. Don't > go anywhere without it! Though there's one use on the label of WD-40 that you shouldn't use it on: Bicycles. WD-40 will make any moving bicycle part wear out and sieze up in zero flat. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAJ6PIUzgNqloQMwcRAuDTAKCZlJ8MuxuW9VeNMUWIxHJ15VdQHwCgzH4c HLhVk9ww+/2/NUi4IVGL164= =/ce6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 9 07:57:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 9 07:57:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Traditional Japanese vi question In-Reply-To: <200402090703.08133.guy1656@ados.com> References: <401C36BA.9000807@brianquade.net> <20040201060752.GA3832@kippered.herring.org> <1076308727.4674.7.camel@kat.zotnet.com> <200402090703.08133.guy1656@ados.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, GLL wrote: > Can you 'kabuki' in vi as well? I think that you're limited to haiku. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From mikeraz at patch.com Mon Feb 9 08:52:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Mon Feb 9 08:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Traditional Japanese vi question In-Reply-To: References: <401C36BA.9000807@brianquade.net> <20040201060752.GA3832@kippered.herring.org> <1076308727.4674.7.camel@kat.zotnet.com> <200402090703.08133.guy1656@ados.com> Message-ID: <20040209165123.GC9909@patch.com> On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 07:56:30AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, GLL wrote: > > > Can you 'kabuki' in vi as well? > > I think that you're limited to haiku. haiku is poetry Noh, Kabuki theater metaphor mixing -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: One expresses well the love he does not feel. -- J.A. Karr From russj at dimstar.net Mon Feb 9 10:27:02 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 9 10:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040209151416.GB31469@ursine.ca> References: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1076312604.1435.4.camel@fastlinux.homenet> <20040209151416.GB31469@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <4027D0E1.5050509@dimstar.net> Paul Johnson wrote: >Though there's one use on the label of WD-40 that you shouldn't use it >on: Bicycles. WD-40 will make any moving bicycle part wear out and >sieze up in zero flat. > > And that's because WD-40 evaporates. It's a very short term lubricant. Otherwise, it would not work well to dry out ignition systems. Russ From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 9 10:40:03 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 9 10:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <115D2FF331CE@loraksus.org> References: <200402081340.08927.aschlemm@comcast.net> <115D2FF331CE@loraksus.org> Message-ID: <20040209183945.GN14378@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 12:53:00AM -0800, Karol Kulaga wrote: > Dexxa 3 button serial mouse. I got it June 1990 for my 286 > at a "trades for grades" thingy a local computer store was > doing (you know, when computer stores were still small). > > Switched it out only a couple days ago on a server here > because I got an optical and the "mouse replacement > hierarchy" knocked it to the extra computer stuff box. > > Can anyone beat me? Just curious. Dunno it's exact vintage, but I have a IBM-AT keyboard from approximately then. Still using it on my *main* workstation. ;-) Wonderful mechanical key mechanism and built like a tank. Removable connector cable so I could change to PS/2 connector. Removable keycaps for cleaning. It's all that. I wish people would make keyboards that well anymore. Sites I've found claiming such sell very nice IBM keyboards indeed, but still not quite the same. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Feb 9 11:30:03 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:30:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? Message-ID: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> ... Troublesome pointy devices ... I don't use a trackball, but I imagine the issues are similar to a mouse, with the added bonus that garbage falls in, not out. An occasional open/invert/shake-out-the-cookie-crumbs should be added to the below procedures. I have lost only one mouse to a bad switch. I have temporarily lost *many* mice to crud on the sensor rollers. This takes about a minute to clean. A mouse with mileage on it will feel like it is moving over gravel, and will be a bit jerky. When you open the mouse up, there will appear to be a little felt pad 2 mm wide on the sensor rollers where the ball contacts them. This is not manufacturer's original equipment; it is debris from your skin and clothing. The felt comes off easily; there is usually a thin layer of knobby black gunk stuck to the sensor roller underneath. Patient scraping with a pocket knife, or your fingernail if you are not fastidious, will remove this. There may also be some crud on the diagonal wheel. Clean this too, it does not enhance your mousing experience. My obsessive-compulsive ritual at public libraries is to remove the crud before using the mouse. Sometimes librarians ask what I am doing, but most of them are trained by now. Tektronix has a surplus store, open to the public, in the basement of building 38 on thursdays from 2 to 5. They usually have a bin full of used mice, $1 each IIRC. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 9 11:32:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:32:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040209183945.GN14378@maybe.net> References: <200402081340.08927.aschlemm@comcast.net> <115D2FF331CE@loraksus.org> <20040209183945.GN14378@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > Dunno it's exact vintage, but I have a IBM-AT keyboard from > approximately then. Still using it on my *main* workstation. ;-) > Wonderful mechanical key mechanism and built like a tank. Removable > connector cable so I could change to PS/2 connector. Removable keycaps > for cleaning. It's all that. I'm using one of these as well. I love it. I make a point of buying every one I see. Usually at the Goodwill for $3.99. I think I have two left. > I wish people would make keyboards that well anymore. Sites I've found > claiming such sell very nice IBM keyboards indeed, but still not quite > the same. A year or so ago, I actually came across a "regular sized" IBM keyboard with the same Selectric feel. It's PS/2 with an integrated cable. It feels very much like my keyboard, but has the footprint, thickness, and weight of a lesser keyboard. Is this what is being sold today? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 9 11:44:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Tektronix has a surplus store, open to the public, in the basement of > building 38 on thursdays from 2 to 5. They usually have a bin full of > used mice, $1 each IIRC. You can probably get bins full of dead mice from OHSU, too. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 9 11:47:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:47:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <200402081340.08927.aschlemm@comcast.net> <115D2FF331CE@loraksus.org> <20040209183945.GN14378@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > It feels very much like my keyboard, but has the footprint, thickness, and > weight of a lesser keyboard. Is this what is being sold today? I just replaced all the "regular" keyboard with mini-keyboards (2 from Fry's, one via ComputerGuys). I really like them. They are similar to the Happy Hacking keyboards or a notebook keyboard. Small, convenient, not consuming all the space on the keyboard tray. For those who don't need separate numeric keypads or the arrow cluster, these are really nice to use. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From charless at ipns.com Mon Feb 9 11:49:01 2004 From: charless at ipns.com (Charles Schmidt) Date: Mon Feb 9 11:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <200402081340.08927.aschlemm@comcast.net> <115D2FF331CE@loraksus.org> <20040209183945.GN14378@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1198.206.163.0.9.1076356123.squirrel@webmail.ipns.com> > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > >> It feels very much like my keyboard, but has the footprint, thickness, >> and weight of a lesser keyboard. Is this what is being sold today? > > I just replaced all the "regular" keyboard with mini-keyboards (2 from > Fry's, one via ComputerGuys). I really like them. They are similar to > the Happy Hacking keyboards or a notebook keyboard. Small, convenient, > not consuming all the space on the keyboard tray. > > For those who don't need separate numeric keypads or the arrow > cluster, > these are really nice to use. > > Rich > > -- > Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President > Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From bspears at easystreet.com Mon Feb 9 12:16:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Mon Feb 9 12:16:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora, network config tool fails In-Reply-To: <1076295698.32534.9.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> References: <1076293378.1600.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076295698.32534.9.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> Message-ID: <1076357736.1600.51.camel@apollo.spears.org> Steve, I got it all fixed. As you said, a lot of cruft in /etc: network and ../sysconfig: networking/devices and network-scripts/: ifcfg-eth0 and deleted route... files in 2 places. Did discover interesting command while rooting around: redhat-config-network-cmd Prints out a nice summary of your network settings. From bspears at easystreet.com Mon Feb 9 12:21:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Mon Feb 9 12:21:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings Message-ID: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> I have an old, but loved, Acer laptop, which has a Synaptics touch pad. My problem is that when I type, my left thumb brushes the pad, thus spewing my characters about the page in a random manner. This feature of interpreting a touch as a click can be turned off under MS. Is there a way to do the same under Fedora? -- Bill Spears From MSmith at clark.edu Mon Feb 9 12:21:09 2004 From: MSmith at clark.edu (Smith, Mark) Date: Mon Feb 9 12:21:09 2004 Subject: [PLUG] what does your crystal ball say? Message-ID: Dear All, Big thanks to those of you who responded to the plea to help Clark College develop its UNIX / Linux programs. The many thoughtful and well-considered replies you gave are much appreciated. I hope to get back around to some of you, who expressed an interest, for more detail. I was struck by some of the replies which mentioned the current perceived absence of new job openings of UNIX / Linux admins / techs at any level. What do you think the situation will be in a year or two? Is the supply of experienced people now out of work so large as to meet foreseeable demand? As the general economy picks up will the need for new admin / tech talent expand as well? Where does the next generation of talent come from? Is the sysadmin really an endangered species? Will servers now running one of the commercial breeds of UNIX be replaced by newer systems from the same vendor (eg: IBM, Sun, HP, etc)? Or will more and more future servers be running some version of Linux? What will be the UNIX / Linux mix in a year or two or even later down the line? Will desktop variants of Linux gain against Microsoft any time soon, or is this just a pipe dream of Linux enthusiasts? What is the meaning of those expensive Linux ads IBM ran during the playoffs and the Superbowl? Thanks for your time and consideration, Mark Mark Smith msmith at clark.edu (360) 992-2951 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bspears at easystreet.com Mon Feb 9 12:23:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Mon Feb 9 12:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora, network config tool fails In-Reply-To: <1076357736.1600.51.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076293378.1600.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076295698.32534.9.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> <1076357736.1600.51.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076358173.1600.59.camel@apollo.spears.org> Er, Ken. I have no idea who Steve is. What's German for brain fart? From beattie at beattie-home.net Mon Feb 9 12:29:02 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Mon Feb 9 12:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 14:29, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > ... Troublesome pointy devices ... > > I don't use a trackball, but I imagine the issues are similar to a > mouse, with the added bonus that garbage falls in, not out. Not as big a problem, since crud has a smaller target, the mouse will pick up all the crud that falls on the mouse pad, where as the track ball it is only the ball it'self that is the target. Works out about even IME. -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Mon Feb 9 13:16:01 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:16:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Bill Spears bspears-at-easystreet.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > I have an old, but loved, Acer laptop, which has a Synaptics touch pad. > My problem is that when I type, my left thumb brushes the pad, thus > spewing my characters about the page in a random manner. This feature > of interpreting a touch as a click can be turned off under MS. > > Is there a way to do the same under Fedora? I don't know if this is included with Fedora, but the "tpconfig" utility will do this for you: http://www.compass.com/synaptics/ I think the most popular setting is the one you wanted: "tpconfig --tapmode=0" -- Steve Bonds From bspears at easystreet.com Mon Feb 9 13:26:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Jump Drive, USB Message-ID: <1076361958.1283.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> I got a Jump Drive(USB) for Christmas and just got around to trying it. It mounts fine as vfat, I can write to it and so on. But: 1. This is a general question about file systems and mounting them. The mount point ../usbdev is owned by me. But when I mount the device/file system, /dev/sda1, it becomes owned by root. Since the underlying file system is vfat, I can understand why all dirs and files on the device are owned by root, but why does it change the mount point? 2. Can these USB devices be changed to ext2? 3. Can they be partitioned? -- Bill Spears From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 9 13:54:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 9 13:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Jump Drive, USB In-Reply-To: <1076361958.1283.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076361958.1283.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <86llnbrkbt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Spears writes: Bill> I got a Jump Drive(USB) for Christmas and just got around to Bill> trying it. It mounts fine as vfat, I can write to it and so on. Bill> But: Bill> 1. This is a general question about file systems and Bill> mounting them. The mount point ../usbdev is owned by me. Bill> But when I mount the device/file system, /dev/sda1, it Bill> becomes owned by root. Since the underlying file system is Bill> vfat, I can understand why all dirs and files on the device Bill> are owned by root, but why does it change the mount point? For a USB smartmedia reader device (I presume it works the same), this is what my /etc/fstab entry looks like: /dev/sdb1 /smart vfat defaults,user,noauto 0 0 Bill> 2. Can these USB devices be changed to ext2? I don't see why not. Of course, my camera isn't going to like that. Bill> 3. Can they be partitioned? Here's what cfdisk says about /dev/sdb: cfdisk 2.12 Disk Drive: /dev/sdb Size: 16384512 bytes, 16 MB Heads: 4 Sectors per Track: 16 Cylinders: 500 Name Flags Part Type FS Type [Label] Size (MB) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pri/Log Free Space 0.03* sdb1 Boot Primary FAT12 16.37* I can repartition this block device like any other one. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 9 14:16:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 9 14:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Jump Drive, USB In-Reply-To: <1076361958.1283.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076361958.1283.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > 2. Can these USB devices be changed to ext2? They CAN, but you have to consider where you'll want to plug the thing. I can't see the advantage. Most every system will mount a vfat partition. > 3. Can they be partitioned? Sure. But I'd again wonder why. It's not that much space. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 9 14:39:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 9 14:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 03:27:58PM -0500, Brian Beattie wrote: > On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 14:29, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > ... Troublesome pointy devices ... > > > > I don't use a trackball, but I imagine the issues are similar to a > > mouse, with the added bonus that garbage falls in, not out. > > Not as big a problem, since crud has a smaller target, the mouse will > pick up all the crud that falls on the mouse pad, where as the track > ball it is only the ball it'self that is the target. Works out about > even IME. Unless you're me and have chronically oily hands, and therefore the trackball is constantly accumulating junk to run off on the support posts. (Optical) -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 9 14:50:03 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 9 14:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > Unless you're me and have chronically oily hands, and therefore the > trackball is constantly accumulating junk to run off on the support > posts. (Optical) OK, so I'll go ahead and chime in here. I have a top-mounted track-ball (as opposed to the thumb-type) and it's alright. I'd really like a decent top-mounted trackball with three buttons, but they're pretty hard to find (except the >$100 variety, which I cannot abide). Anyway, I think I got mine at the Goodwill. It's labelled Microsoft and is in decent condition. It has a scrollbutton and two regular buttons, so that suits my needs fine. But it gets dirty really fast... and it has some weird innards that I'd like somebody here to describe. It has the regular rubber wheels and when I turn those wheels whilst cleaning the thing, the cursor moves. Turn the other wheel and it moves along the other axis. Seems perfectly normal. However, even though that appears to be how the motion is controlled and the wheel is a solid greenish color, there are two LEDs in the ball socket. What the heck are those for? Anyone? The whole thing just gets filthy, though. I haven't tried roughing the rollers with alcohol to improve its sometimes sticky performance, but I probably will do that today. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 9 15:13:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 9 15:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <20040209231219.GB32750@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 02:49:48PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > > Unless you're me and have chronically oily hands, and therefore the > > trackball is constantly accumulating junk to run off on the support > > posts. (Optical) > > OK, so I'll go ahead and chime in here. > > I have a top-mounted track-ball (as opposed to the thumb-type) and it's > alright. I'd really like a decent top-mounted trackball with three > buttons, but they're pretty hard to find (except the >$100 variety, which > I cannot abide). Definitely look for a Trackman fx. It's hard to describe, and they don't sell it anymore. It has a large ball, but the housing is little but a skeleton, so the ball has breathing holes on 3 different sides. Additionally, it's designed so that your hand lies in an ergonomic position with the thumb resting upwards (no twisting of bones). There is a button on the left for the thumb, a button to the right of the trackball, and two buttons lying along the vertical ridge. The little (4th) button I use for a "back button" and it's wonderful. Because it's fully optical, you only have to clean it when you don't like the resistance or consistency it presents, and every time it's back to rolling like glass. Mine were only $40 new (each -- I have two). The latest Microsoft trackball seems to have finally got their head out of their ass and is similar. Logitech doesn't make anything so elegant anymore in their obsession with making everthing wireless and "stylish". > However, even though that appears to be how the motion is controlled and > the wheel is a solid greenish color, there are two LEDs in the ball > socket. What the heck are those for? Anyone? I've heard of opto-mechanical mice before. No idea how they work. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From beattie at beattie-home.net Mon Feb 9 16:15:02 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Mon Feb 9 16:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1076372062.893.36.camel@kokopelli> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 17:49, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > > Unless you're me and have chronically oily hands, and therefore the > > trackball is constantly accumulating junk to run off on the support > > posts. (Optical) > > OK, so I'll go ahead and chime in here. > > I have a top-mounted track-ball (as opposed to the thumb-type) and it's > alright. I'd really like a decent top-mounted trackball with three > buttons, but they're pretty hard to find (except the >$100 variety, which > I cannot abide). CompUSA has a house brand with a clearcase about $30 I have about 6 at home one for every computer. -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 9 16:25:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 9 16:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <1076372062.893.36.camel@kokopelli> References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> <1076372062.893.36.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Brian Beattie wrote: > CompUSA has a house brand with a clearcase about $30 I have about 6 at > home one for every computer. Are there any CompUSA stores in sane, livable spaces or are they all in the suburbs? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 9 16:35:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 9 16:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <4027D0E1.5050509@dimstar.net> References: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1076312604.1435.4.camel@fastlinux.homenet> <20040209151416.GB31469@ursine.ca> <4027D0E1.5050509@dimstar.net> Message-ID: <20040210003411.GC8619@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 10:26:41AM -0800, Russ Johnson wrote: > And that's because WD-40 evaporates. It's a very short term lubricant. That's the thing, it's not a lubricant, it's a water displacer. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAKCcDUzgNqloQMwcRAiFTAJ0ZMXI1T7ge1xc/17CPf2cgMT9PkACg0Cwc qUouc7MzRV1sGbI3JKLHIDQ= =pjDo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 9 16:47:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 9 16:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <200402081340.08927.aschlemm@comcast.net> <115D2FF331CE@loraksus.org> <20040209183945.GN14378@maybe.net> Message-ID: <20040210004620.GD8619@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 11:45:53AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > I just replaced all the "regular" keyboard with mini-keyboards (2 from > Fry's, one via ComputerGuys). I really like them. They are similar to the > Happy Hacking keyboards or a notebook keyboard. Small, convenient, not > consuming all the space on the keyboard tray. I just want to know where I can get an IBM-M keyboard in PS/2 or USB, with hyper and super keys (usually mislabelled by the manufacturer as context and windows...). - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAKCncUzgNqloQMwcRAvVSAJ9OsAVIZ0RsqLrFjs1syEmVkx0GWQCgoo1M DU2D7E5xXTIqF0mpZa10kwU= =BCYs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 9 16:48:01 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 9 16:48:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <20040210003411.GC8619@ursine.ca> References: <20040208012409.12BAF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1076312604.1435.4.camel@fastlinux.homenet> <20040209151416.GB31469@ursine.ca> <4027D0E1.5050509@dimstar.net> <20040210003411.GC8619@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <8665efpxoj.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Johnson writes: RJ> And that's because WD-40 evaporates. It's a very short term RJ> lubricant. Paul> That's the thing, it's not a lubricant, it's a water displacer. Seems we are straying from anything computer related. Plug-talk awaits. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From beattie at beattie-home.net Mon Feb 9 17:41:02 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Mon Feb 9 17:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> <1076372062.893.36.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: <1076377211.830.46.camel@kokopelli> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 19:25, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Brian Beattie wrote: > > CompUSA has a house brand with a clearcase about $30 I have about 6 at > > home one for every computer. > > Are there any CompUSA stores in sane, livable spaces or are they all in > the suburbs? Nope, Tigard and Jantzen Beach > > J. -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 9 17:47:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 9 17:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT (Hardware): Do pointy devices wear out? In-Reply-To: <1076377211.830.46.camel@kokopelli> References: <20040209192916.GA25239@gate.kl-ic.com> <1076358478.3254.19.camel@kokopelli> <20040209223801.GA32750@maybe.net> <1076372062.893.36.camel@kokopelli> <1076377211.830.46.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: <20040210014606.GI8619@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 09, 2004 at 08:40:12PM -0500, Brian Beattie wrote: > Nope, Tigard and Jantzen Beach Tigard is livable. Beaverton, on the other hand... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAKDfeUzgNqloQMwcRAvN7AJ4yIBSYYpCANyaVj62EEOLAydlfeQCeP9a5 SSF3dip2ntWQ5PHG72QFtc8= =YIt9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From michael at themontagnes.com Mon Feb 9 19:17:02 2004 From: michael at themontagnes.com (Michael Montagne) Date: Mon Feb 9 19:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] kill nautilus Message-ID: <20040210031639.GA8421@themontagnes.com> I have a machine that I do not have access to that nautilus (gnome 2.4) is hung. According to ps, it is in "Uninterruptable sleep". I killed X and Gnome will not restart. I'm trying to avoid rebooting but I can't seem to kill the process. Any suggestions? Tried "kill -9 472" and "killall nautilus" as root. Restarted gdm and X. -- Michael Montagne michael at themontagnes.com http://www.themontagnes.com From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Feb 9 22:12:01 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon Feb 9 22:12:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Remapping buttons in X windows Message-ID: <20040210061107.GA28105@gate.kl-ic.com> X windows question. I am using Win4Lin to run a @$%##! windoze program, mea culpa. The windoze program works best with a three button mouse, but will work with a two-button spanning kludge; if you hold down ALT while you press the left mouse button, the program will pretend it is seeing the middle mouse button. The current version of Win4Lin only passes info for two buttons, so I am using this kludge a lot. The problem comes in when the program also expects SHIFT and CTRL as modifiers; it is like playing a game of Twister on my keyboard. I believe it is possible to remap mouse buttons in X, but I do not know how. What I would like to do is translate middle mouse button to ALT&leftbutton when I am in the Win4Lin window, leave it alone elsewhere. I will settle for a script that sets up the translation, and another that removes it, when I fire up that program. This may involve fiddling with xmodmap and xev, but hopefully somebody has already done something like this and can save me some frobbing. I am usually running gnome, if that makes any difference. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Tue Feb 10 02:57:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Tue Feb 10 02:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small distribution In-Reply-To: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> References: <000401c3e918$09561830$15071ad8@bobby> Message-ID: <1076410518.25497.44.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Check out LEAF: http://leaf-project.org/ Might be too small for your needs. Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall What is it? An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small office, home office, and home automation environments. Although it can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. Project Goals: Create an inclusive environment for current developers of the Linux Router Project to release their modifications to the public. Support continued development of Linux Router Project derived LEAF images and packages. Create a new LEAF version based on an embedded Linux distribution with 2.4 kernel support, while retaining the option to install the target environment on a floppy attached to the target. On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 15:06, Aaron wrote: > Can anyone recommend a small distribution of unix to run on a really old > laptop (120 mghz 24 mg of ram 1 gig hard drive). Thanks! > > Aaron McIntosh > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 10 11:48:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 10 11:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 13:15, Steve Bonds wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Bill Spears bspears-at-easystreet.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > > > I have an old, but loved, Acer laptop, which has a Synaptics touch pad. > > My problem is that when I type, my left thumb brushes the pad, thus > > spewing my characters about the page in a random manner. This feature > > of interpreting a touch as a click can be turned off under MS. > > > > Is there a way to do the same under Fedora? > > I don't know if this is included with Fedora, but the "tpconfig" utility > will do this for you: > > http://www.compass.com/synaptics/ > > I think the most popular setting is the one you wanted: "tpconfig > --tapmode=0" > Steve, thanks for the help. I couldn't connect to the site, but I found an rpm, which I installed. When I booted, I still had the touching problem (perhaps I should reword that). I checked /var/log/messages and found that tpconfig was timing out waiting for something from the kernel. The error msg suggested that perhaps I had not applied a kernel patch. So now I'm confused. I did not get the impression from INSTAll and README that I had to do that with the rpm. I think it may be simpler to have my left thumb amputated. :) From chris at maybe.net Tue Feb 10 11:53:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Tue Feb 10 11:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040210195207.GE32750@maybe.net> On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 11:47:48AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > Steve, thanks for the help. I couldn't connect to the site, but I > found an rpm, which I installed. When I booted, I still had the > touching problem (perhaps I should reword that). I checked > /var/log/messages and found that tpconfig was timing out waiting for > something from the kernel. The error msg suggested that perhaps I had > not applied a kernel patch. So now I'm confused. I did not get the > impression from INSTAll and README that I had to do that with the rpm. > > I think it may be simpler to have my left thumb amputated. :) Well, the Debian package comes with patches in /usr/share/doc for various kernels. I suggest looking for things like these either in the RPM (rpm -ql), or on the web site. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 10 12:17:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 10 12:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <20040210195207.GE32750@maybe.net> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040210195207.GE32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1076444171.2642.26.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 11:52, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 11:47:48AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > > Steve, thanks for the help. I couldn't connect to the site, but I > > found an rpm, which I installed. When I booted, I still had the > > touching problem (perhaps I should reword that). I checked > > /var/log/messages and found that tpconfig was timing out waiting for > > something from the kernel. The error msg suggested that perhaps I had > > not applied a kernel patch. So now I'm confused. I did not get the > > impression from INSTAll and README that I had to do that with the rpm. > > > > I think it may be simpler to have my left thumb amputated. :) > > Well, the Debian package comes with patches in /usr/share/doc for > various kernels. I suggest looking for things like these either in the > RPM (rpm -ql), or on the web site. I don't know much about kernel patching, but the versions don't match, so I better avoid it.[2.4.2 vs 2.2.22-1.2149] -- Bill Spears From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 10 12:33:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 10 12:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <1076444171.2642.26.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040210195207.GE32750@maybe.net> <1076444171.2642.26.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076445156.2642.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Drat, that was supposed to be 2.4.22-1.2149. From pem at nellump.net Tue Feb 10 13:39:02 2004 From: pem at nellump.net (Paul Mullen) Date: Tue Feb 10 13:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] USB-Storage Hotplug Script? Message-ID: <20040210213844.GA682@nellump.net> I seems unbelievable to me, but I've been unable to find a general-purpose hotplug script that can handle the automatic mounting and unmounting of usb-storage devices (thumbdrives, digital cameras, card readers, etc.). I did discover one posted to a Red Hat mailing list last summer, but it was geared only towards mounting a single flash-on-keychain type of device. I have several usb-storage based devices, and a few other non-USB devices that make use of the SCSI-generic layer. So, in the spirit of the scratch-your-own-itch philosophy of open source, I rolled my own solution. It began as a few hacks to the script I found on the Red Hat list, but quickly turned into a 95% rewrite. It's set up so that it will (should) handle the automatic mounting and unmounting of any usb-storage device that it's been told about. If anyone is interested, I can post the script to the list. Basically, I'm wondering if perhaps I didn't look hard enough before creating my own solution. Not that it really matters at this point, though. :-) Paul From lemming at quirkyqatz.com Tue Feb 10 13:47:02 2004 From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark) Date: Tue Feb 10 13:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <20040210195207.GE32750@maybe.net> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040210195207.GE32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <40295120.5010606@quirkyqatz.com> Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 11:47:48AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > >>I think it may be simpler to have my left thumb amputated. :) > > Well, the Debian package comes with patches in /usr/share/doc. Wow. Debian's pretty complete to have surgery options. :D From chris at maybe.net Tue Feb 10 14:04:01 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Tue Feb 10 14:04:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <40295120.5010606@quirkyqatz.com> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040210195207.GE32750@maybe.net> <40295120.5010606@quirkyqatz.com> Message-ID: <20040210220316.GG32750@maybe.net> On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 01:46:08PM -0800, Mark wrote: > Chris Jantzen wrote: > >On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 11:47:48AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > > > >>I think it may be simpler to have my left thumb amputated. :) > > > >Well, the Debian package comes with patches in /usr/share/doc. > > Wow. Debian's pretty complete to have surgery options. :D /me is lost on that one. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 10 14:06:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 10 14:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] USB-Storage Hotplug Script? In-Reply-To: <20040210213844.GA682@nellump.net> References: <20040210213844.GA682@nellump.net> Message-ID: <1076450728.15112.1.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:38, Paul Mullen wrote: > anyone is interested, I can post the script to the list. Uh- let me see, a script that can handle my camera and thumb drive? Please, post away! -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 10 14:08:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 10 14:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] USB-Storage Hotplug Script? In-Reply-To: <20040210213844.GA682@nellump.net> References: <20040210213844.GA682@nellump.net> Message-ID: <1076450880.2642.36.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:38, Paul Mullen wrote: > I seems unbelievable to me, but I've been unable to find a > general-purpose hotplug script that can handle the automatic mounting > and unmounting of usb-storage devices (thumbdrives, digital cameras, > card readers, etc.). I did discover one posted to a Red Hat mailing list > last summer, but it was geared only towards mounting a single > flash-on-keychain type of device. I have several usb-storage based > devices, and a few other non-USB devices that make use of the > SCSI-generic layer. > > So, in the spirit of the scratch-your-own-itch philosophy of open > source, I rolled my own solution. It began as a few hacks to the script > I found on the Red Hat list, but quickly turned into a 95% rewrite. It's > set up so that it will (should) handle the automatic mounting and > unmounting of any usb-storage device that it's been told about. If > anyone is interested, I can post the script to the list. Well, duh! Post away. I have to look in messages or use lsusb -x, then convert to sd? then mount. > Basically, I'm wondering if perhaps I didn't look hard enough before > creating my own solution. Not that it really matters at this point, > though. :-) > > > Paul > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Bill Spears From pem at nellump.net Tue Feb 10 14:35:03 2004 From: pem at nellump.net (Paul Mullen) Date: Tue Feb 10 14:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] USB-Storage Hotplug Script? In-Reply-To: <1076450880.2642.36.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040210213844.GA682@nellump.net> <1076450880.2642.36.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040210223416.GA1168@nellump.net> On Tue, Feb 10, 2004 at 02:08:01PM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > > Well, duh! Post away. I have to look in messages or use lsusb -x, then > convert to sd? then mount. If you insist... :-) I think that the script is fairly self-explanatory -- it's well-commented. If there's any need for elaboration, feel free to ask. Note that this has only been tested on my system. I think it works fairly well so far, but I expect someone will be able to find a way to break it. Please read through it (at least the comments) before trying it out. And certainly, if there are any suggestions for improvement, fire away! Paul -------------- next part -------------- #!/bin/bash # # Script to auto-mount SCSI-USB storage devices. # # Copyright 2004 Paul E. Mullen # # Inspired by a script posted to rhl-devel-list by Konstantin Riabitsev # on 12 Aug 2003. # # # This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under # the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software # Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later # version. # # This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY # WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A # PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details. # # You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with # this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple # Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA; or visit the FSF's web site. A # text copy of the GPL is available at . # ## # README! # # This is a fairly simple script, and should be able to handle most SCSI-USB # storage devices. # # REQUIREMENTS: # 1) A standard set of shell utilities (find, grep, sed, etc.). # 2) sg3-utils package (SCSI-generic device utilities). Most likely # available as a package from your Linux distribution; if not, visit # . # 3) The 'rescan-scsi-bus.sh' script available from: # . # NB: The Linux IEEE1394 Project web site contains a warning about the use of # automated SCSI bus rescans being somewhat dangerous (possibility of kernel # oops). All I can say is that I haven't had any difficulties so far. Caveat # hotpluggor. # # INSTALL: # This script should be located in the "usb" sub-directory of your Linux # distributions hotplug config file directory. Usually, this is # /etc/hotplug/usb. This script should be named "usb-storage", and should be # executable ('chmod 755 usb-storage' ought to do the trick). # # CONFIGURATION: # 1) Create a mount point for your usb-storage device. # 2) Create an entry for your device in the "case" structure (which begins on # line #88). Use the two existing device entries as examples. They can be # deleted if they describe devices you don't happen to have. # # TO-DO: # 1) Send the script's output to an appropriate logging facility. It's # probably not safe to assume that all systems will tolerate output to TTY8. # 2) More robust error-handling would be nice. Specifically, when searching # for sg->sd device mappings; mounting sd devices; etc. # 3) Is there anyway to get 'sg_map' and 'rescan-scsi-bus' to shut up? They # generate far too much syslog noise. # 4) Add support for the simultaneous mounting of multiple partitions. # # Note that there are simpler means of determining /dev/sg* -> /dev/sd* device # mappings when you're using devfs with a 2.4 kernel. Likewise, I believe sysfs # in the 2.6 kernel provides similar shortcuts. This script is designed to work # with a standard device node filesystem, in combination with a 2.4 kernel. It # may or may not work with differently arranged systems. YMMV. # ## # Who am I? # MY_PATHNAME=$0 ## # Set appropriate variables for storage device here. The value of $PRODUCT for # the device in question can be determined via /proc/bus/usb/devices, or the # handy-dandy 'lsusb' command-line utility. Both are usually available in any # reasonably modern Linux distribution. Alternatively, you can simply read the # output this handler script prints to TTY8 the first time it encounters an # unfamiliar USB "mass storage" device. The correct value for $PRODUCT will be # printed in the apologetic error message. # case $PRODUCT in 781/7101/102) # SanDisk Cruzer Mini PART_NUM=1 MOUNTPOINT=/mnt/cruzer FSTYPE=vfat MOUNT_OPTS="uid=1000,gid=1000,noatime,sync" ;; 4dd/7002/10) # Sharp ViewCam PART_NUM=1 MOUNTPOINT=/mnt/dvcam FSTYPE=vfat MOUNT_OPTS="uid=1000,gid=1000,noatime,sync" RESCAN_SCSI_BUS=true ;; *) echo "$MY_PATHNAME: USB device $PRODUCT not supported by usb-storage hotplug handler script. Sorry." > /dev/tty8 exit 1 ;; esac if [ $ACTION = "add" ]; then ## # Tell the world we're on our way. # Wouldn't it be nice if this message reported a meaningful English name for # the USB device, rather than an obscure set of identifiers? # echo "$MY_PATHNAME: Handling usb-storage hotplug \"add\" event for USB device $PRODUCT." > /dev/tty8 ## # Figure out which USB device we're dealing with. # set `echo $PRODUCT | sed -e 's+\([^/]*\)/\([^/]*\)/\(.*\)+\1 \2 \3+'` USB_VENDOR=$1 USB_PRODUCT=$2 USB_VERSION=$3 ## # Figure out which SCSI device the new USB "drive" is bound to. # # A list of all "SCSI" USB devices that are presently attached. Hopefully # this includes the device we're trying to mount. ATTACHED_USB_STORAGE_DEVS=`find /proc/scsi/ -path '/proc/scsi/usb-storage*' -type f | xargs grep -l 'Attached: Yes'` for DEVICE in $ATTACHED_USB_STORAGE_DEVS; do if grep -q "GUID: 0\{0,3\}${USB_VENDOR}0\{0,3\}${USB_PRODUCT}" $DEVICE; then SG_DEV=`basename $DEVICE` # Unfortunately, 'sg_map' is an incredibly noisy utility. It spews # a great deal of output to syslog. # # The following sed pattern match assumes there will always be two # spaces between the two devices listed in each mapping. Hopefully # that's true. SD_DEV=`sg_map | grep sg${SG_DEV} | sed -e "s/\(.*\)[ ]\(.*\)/\2/"` break fi done ## # For some reason I don't yet understand, a few devices need to have the # SCSI bus rescanned before they'll appear as valid block devices. # This, too, generates a tremendous amount of syslog noise. # if [ -n "$RESCAN_SCSI_BUS" ]; then /etc/hotplug/scsi/rescan-scsi-bus.sh fi ## # Mount it! # echo "$MY_PATHNAME: Mounting ${SD_DEV}${PART_NUM} at $MOUNTPOINT..." > /dev/tty8 # Might not be a bad idea to check for the existence of the mountpoint first. mount -o $MOUNT_OPTS -t $FSTYPE ${SD_DEV}${PART_NUM} $MOUNTPOINT ## # Make sure this script is triggered on device removal. # if [ -n "$REMOVER" ]; then mkdir -p `dirname $REMOVER` ln -s $MY_PATHNAME $REMOVER fi elif [ $ACTION = "remove" ]; then # The "remover" script is actually a symlink to this one. Figure out what # the real pathname is so that we don't use the link's pathname gibberish # in our output. MY_PATHNAME=`readlink $MY_PATHNAME`; echo "$MY_PATHNAME: Handling usb-storage hotplug \"remove\" event for USB device $PRODUCT." > /dev/tty8 # If the device is mounted, unmount it cleanly. if grep -q "$MOUNTPOINT" /etc/mtab; then echo "$MY_PATHNAME: Unmounting $MOUNTPOINT." > /dev/tty8 umount -l $MOUNTPOINT fi fi From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Tue Feb 10 17:26:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Tue Feb 10 17:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Laptop touch pad settings In-Reply-To: <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076358027.1600.57.camel@apollo.spears.org> <27759-51202@sneakemail.com> <1076442468.2642.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <14215-50861@sneakemail.com> On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Bill Spears bspears-at-easystreet.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > Steve, thanks for the help. I couldn't connect to the site, but I found > an rpm, which I installed. When I booted, I still had the touching > problem (perhaps I should reword that). I checked /var/log/messages and > found that tpconfig was timing out waiting for something from the > kernel. The error msg suggested that perhaps I had not applied a kernel > patch. So now I'm confused. I did not get the impression from INSTAll > and README that I had to do that with the rpm. Perhaps the binary you grabbed isn't fully compatible with Fedora? Try getting the Source RPM and installing/building from there: http://www.compass.com/tpconfig/tpconfig-3.1.3-1.src.rpm Perhaps this needs to be run before the X server comes up and grabs the mouse? -- Steve From bderr at myrealbox.com Tue Feb 10 18:38:02 2004 From: bderr at myrealbox.com (Brian Derr) Date: Tue Feb 10 18:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perl: deleting text - more clarification In-Reply-To: <20040204142537.GB8722@patch.com> References: <005601c3eab6$6d03f830$6401a8c0@LAPTOP> <20040204010547.GB31674@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> <20040204142537.GB8722@patch.com> Message-ID: <20040211023740.GA24714@brian.brianandkellyderr.com> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 06:25:37AM -0800, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > To be sure we understand what you're doing I'm offering up this explanation > for you to verify or correct. > > Some process writes to FileA, records are > > > Later on you'll read FileA, note that there is something in > that indicates the current record should move to FileB, write that record > to FileB and remove it from FileA. So far you are correct. > > If that's true then questions need asking: > > Is there any chance that will contain blank lines and/or > timestamps? It is possible, however, unlikely. I am the only one going to be using the script so I'll know not to put in blank lines for input. If I were to be releasing en masse I would put a check to make sure that there is in fact valid input entered. Thus, in theory, there should be no blank lines or timestamps in the field. > What prevents the data from being filtered in the first place and put into > FileA or FileB as necessary? FileA is a "current" file whereas FileB is a "log" file where things that are no longer current are put. > Is FileA being written with new records on a continuous basis? i.e. are > you blocked from putting a lock on it to do an edit in place? No, it is a user-run script and since I'm the only one going to be using it there shouldn't be a write to FileA while I'm trying to read from it. So a file lock isn't really necessary but it wouldn't hurt either. Sorry for the massive delay in responding, got really busy for a couple of days and didn't have a chance to read responses to my questions. Thanks to all for the help thus far. Brian -- "The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him." -- Nahum 1:7 KJV We are solar powered; we are powered by the Son. -- Doug Rowse, 2003 If God were small enough to fit into my head He wouldn't be big enough to worship. -- Brett Meador, 2002 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 10 21:28:01 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 10 21:28:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R Message-ID: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> I'm finally back on the burn multiple files at different times to the same CD-R project. I've got the burner installed on my fedora-Core 1 box and it burns CDs quite nicely. Now to the task. I want a command line method of burning the contents of a directory onto the CD. I'm sure that involves cdrecord, but I cannot find the switch that allows it to be done multi-session. Isn't that the term I need? Also- xcdroast strongly suggests that I install the burner in SCSI mode, is that important to anything else? -- Mike De La Mater Small Business Networks and Computers Your key to technology that works mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From gepr at tempusdictum.com Wed Feb 11 08:01:02 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Wed Feb 11 08:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R In-Reply-To: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <16426.20684.130853.298022@eris.dischordia.net> Mike De La Mater writes: > I'm finally back on the burn multiple files at different times to the > same CD-R project. > > I've got the burner installed on my fedora-Core 1 box and it burns CDs > quite nicely. > > Now to the task. I want a command line method of burning the contents of > a directory onto the CD. I'm sure that involves cdrecord, but I cannot > find the switch that allows it to be done multi-session. Isn't that the > term I need? I think you have to make an iso image first. When I use gcombust to do this, it reports the following for mkisofs: /usr/bin/mkisofs -graft-points -f -R -r -l -J -o/bu1/cd-images/PatriotAct.iso -- PatriotAct/=/usr/home/gepr/notes/PatriotAct/ Then write the iso image to the CD-R with cdrecord. > Also- xcdroast strongly suggests that I install the burner in SCSI mode, > is that important to anything else? I'm ignorant on the implications of this; but, it works fine for me and hasn't damaged anything else. -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com Wed Feb 11 08:34:02 2004 From: plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com (plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com) Date: Wed Feb 11 08:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R In-Reply-To: <16426.20684.130853.298022@eris.dischordia.net> References: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <16426.20684.130853.298022@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: <20040211162659.GG27198@merlot.com> gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) typed this ... > > Also- xcdroast strongly suggests that I install the burner in SCSI mode, > > is that important to anything else? > > I'm ignorant on the implications of this; but, it works fine for me > and hasn't damaged anything else. IDE burners aren't recognized by any Linux CD-burning software that I know of. You have to use the ide-scsi module to add a SCSI layer on your IDE device. Look at the Linux CD-burning HOWTO for more info. --kurt -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Merlot Research Group, Inc http://www.merlot.com kls at merlot.com GPG key 82505A74 Jabber: MerlotQA From gepr at tempusdictum.com Wed Feb 11 08:50:03 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Wed Feb 11 08:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R In-Reply-To: <20040211162659.GG27198@merlot.com> References: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <16426.20684.130853.298022@eris.dischordia.net> <20040211162659.GG27198@merlot.com> Message-ID: <16426.23576.571204.588248@eris.dischordia.net> plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com writes: > gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) typed this ... > > > Also- xcdroast strongly suggests that I install the burner in SCSI mode, > > > is that important to anything else? > > > > I'm ignorant on the implications of this; but, it works fine for me > > and hasn't damaged anything else. > > IDE burners aren't recognized by any Linux CD-burning software that I > know of. You have to use the ide-scsi module to add a SCSI layer on your > IDE device. Look at the Linux CD-burning HOWTO for more info. XCDRoast seemed to recognize mine; but, warned me that it would be slow and probably fail. Also, I noticed that multi-session burning didn't work in gcombust even though it has the little radio button for it. I also have a pretty screwed up, old, cd burner, that barfs everytime I try to use DAO, which xcdroast requires for multi-session burns... though it's not clear that cdrecord requires it. -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 11 10:39:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 11 10:39:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R In-Reply-To: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <1076524691.5300.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 21:27, Mike De La Mater wrote: > I'm finally back on the burn multiple files at different times to the > same CD-R project. > > I've got the burner installed on my fedora-Core 1 box and it burns CDs > quite nicely. > > Now to the task. I want a command line method of burning the contents of > a directory onto the CD. I'm sure that involves cdrecord, but I cannot > find the switch that allows it to be done multi-session. Isn't that the > term I need? > > Also- xcdroast strongly suggests that I install the burner in SCSI mode, > is that important to anything else? > > > -- Gnome-toaster says it has multisession capability, but if you want command line: The instructions are in /usr/share/doc/cdrecord-xxx/README.multi. There is no simple switch mentioned. Have fun. From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Wed Feb 11 11:33:01 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Wed Feb 11 11:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R In-Reply-To: <1076524691.5300.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076524691.5300.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076527882.27930.9.camel@kat.zotnet.com> > > Gnome-toaster says it has multisession capability, but if you want > command line: Most of the GUI's I've ever used print the command line in a window. Cut and paste is your friend! Otherwise ALT-TAB to a terminal, 'ps axwwww | grep cdr| > cdrcommand.sh (edit the .sh file ) This is best way to do GUIs use them to make the command-line easier, not to hide it. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From raanders at acm.org Wed Feb 11 11:48:02 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Wed Feb 11 11:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] {Q} mimencode for RHL 8 system Message-ID: I have some daily reports that I generate using shell scripts and though I normally reject the HTML e-mail idea I found the reports were much easier to read with a little HTML. The issue comes when I use /bin/mail to send it. There is no way to set the content type so thought it comes through nicely to the web based mail client Mozilla Mail (IMAP) show all the HTML codes and does no formatting. I looked and found a nice little (shell) script called mimesend, installed it and then it puked when I tested it. RHL 8 has no mimencode (a part of metamail) and since it is a binary I hesitate to grab a copy off a RHL 7.3 system. Further study makes me think this is not what I want anyway. I'm looking for a command line method to send HTML encoded (so the MUA recognizes them as HTML - Content-Type: text/html) messages. Any suggestions? Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 11 12:27:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 11 12:27:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R In-Reply-To: <20040211162659.GG27198@merlot.com> References: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <16426.20684.130853.298022@eris.dischordia.net> <20040211162659.GG27198@merlot.com> Message-ID: <1076530795.8551.89.camel@dell.linux.box> On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 08:26, plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com wrote: > IDE burners aren't recognized by any Linux CD-burning software that I > know of. You have to use the ide-scsi module to add a SCSI layer on your > IDE device. Look at the Linux CD-burning HOWTO for more info. Linux 2.6.0 changed that. :-) IDE CD burning is now supported by the kernel, cdrecord is able to take advantage of it. AFAIK, ide-scsi is pretty much broken in 2.6 as far as CD burning is concerned. Rob From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 11 12:43:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 11 12:43:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R In-Reply-To: <1076527882.27930.9.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1076477226.1729.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076524691.5300.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076527882.27930.9.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <1076532122.5300.21.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 11:31, Zot O'Connor wrote: > > > > Gnome-toaster says it has multisession capability, but if you want > > command line: > > Most of the GUI's I've ever used print the command line in a window. > > Cut and paste is your friend! > > Otherwise ALT-TAB to a terminal, 'ps axwwww | grep cdr| > cdrcommand.sh > > (edit the .sh file ) > > This is best way to do GUIs use them to make the command-line easier, > not to hide it. I think this one may be pretty complicated. Take a look at edit::preferences, record-tab and iso9960-tab. -- Bill Spears From m at phxlinux.org Wed Feb 11 14:11:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 11 14:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error Message-ID: Here's the output from df: Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/hda2 3.9G 1.4G 2.3G 39% / none 46M 0 46M 0% /dev/shm And then... # touch somefile touch: cannot touch `somefile': No space left on device Odd, no? I even rebooted, but the problem remains... Any ideas what's going on? Thanks, ~M From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Wed Feb 11 14:28:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Wed Feb 11 14:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31315-38199@sneakemail.com> On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander m-at-phxlinux.org |PDX Linux| wrote: > Here's the output from df: > > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda2 3.9G 1.4G 2.3G 39% / > none 46M 0 46M 0% /dev/shm > > > And then... > > # touch somefile > touch: cannot touch `somefile': No space left on device > > > Odd, no? I even rebooted, but the problem remains... > Any ideas what's going on? The filesystem may have something corrupted on it and needs to be "fsck"-ed. Since it's your root filesystem it's a bit hard to unmount it for a good check. Find your distribution's "rescue" CD, boot from it, and fsck /dev/hda2. You could do this online (maybe) but you could miss problems or even create more problems by doing so. My guess is you'll find something big and ugly in /lost+found after you're done. -- Steve From mikeraz at patch.com Wed Feb 11 15:42:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Wed Feb 11 15:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040211233806.GA3038@patch.com> On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 03:10:12PM -0700, Matt Alexander wrote: > Here's the output from df: > > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda2 3.9G 1.4G 2.3G 39% / > none 46M 0 46M 0% /dev/shm > > > And then... > > # touch somefile > touch: cannot touch `somefile': No space left on device Do a `df -i` which will give you an inode count. If you've depleated your store of inodes you can get this message. Would happen if you have lots of little files. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: How can you work when the system's so crowded? From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Feb 11 15:46:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed Feb 11 15:46:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Jobs for java coders: just for your information Message-ID: Given the unemployed SIG here I thought these messages from the Portland Java list might be of interest. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Hi everyone, I'm about to leave Portland, because of the job market. I'm headed for New York City - just to compare, I applied for two jobs there and got them both (one as business analyst at the NY Stock Exchange). But I still can't believe I really have to leave. Anybody have any comments about what it's been like finding or holding on to a job here? I've noticed a possible increase in opening lately - For example, I've been getting calls from recruiters. But these usually don't pan out - the "jobs" that are available are simply still too few, and there are lots of staffing people chasing the same openings. For a while though, I'd been optimistic, and thought that this represented the tip of a coming increase in openings. But I've been hold out for 2.5 years waiting for the market to come back. Most openings I see are usually _very_ tailored to exact requirements. I'm not sure how to interpret this; companies that don't want to give someone ramp-up time, even for a few weeks, on their particular tools in use. A final question - me personally, I have extensive experience with all aspects of Java, have J2EE, but minus the EJB (at my previous positions, we rolled our own solutions for what EJB offers). I even have publications in mags like Dr. Dobb's Journal. But most (recruiter-related) job postings specifically mention Weblogic or Websphere. Are there any companies out there that would hire someone in my position? I have ideas for getting EJB experience, but I wish I didn't have to leave town in order to keep working. Thanks, Robb _______________________________________________ Robb, > I'm about to leave Portland, because of the job market. I'm headed for > New York City - just to compare, I applied for two jobs there and got them > both (one as business analyst at the NY Stock Exchange). We're moving our software company from New York to Portland this summer, so might be able to offer an interesting perspective. There are two major things to realize about NYC: 1) It's incredibly expensive. A one bedroom apartment is about $1700-$2200/month (slightly cheaper in New Jersey or parts of the NYC burroughs). A drink at a bar can easily be $10-12. :) Taxes are also very high if you live in NYC. 2) Technical talent doesn't seem to be as deep in NYC compared to Portland. When we advertised for developers in NYC, applicants primarily had experience as IT developers at financial companies. Portland engineers seemed to have much deeper talent and experience doing product engineering. So, all I can say is that hopefully more software companies will see thing the same way we do and also move to Portland. If you do come to NYC before you move, we'd be happy to show you around. :) Regards, Matt _______________________________________________ I think that Robb Shecter said: >>Anybody have any comments about what it's been like finding or holding on to a job here? Robb... you can't be serious!?? :-D Haven't you been following the recent threads here??? Good Heavens, man!! Don't you know that... * ...this is now a pure Java Newsgroup... not a User Group directed at issues affecting Portland Java developers? * ...we don't discuss off-topic issues like jobs, employment, off-shoring, out-sourcing, or economic policy that affects our making a living at programming in Java? * ...everyone here has a job and this newsgroup doesn't really care about people like you that have to leave the area? * ...the fact that you cannot find work despite your obvious qualifications is your problem, not the newsgroups? But I feel your pain and I am here to help you! Ironically, since your livelihood is indeed "in jeopardy", the key is to pose your concern here in the form of a Java question. Here is an example: ============================================================================ Dear PJUG, I cannot get this to compile, can someone help me?? import pdx.job.market.*; import my.best.skills.*; public class JavaProgrammer extends Developer implements Valuable, Hardworking { JavaProgrammer () { super(); } public static main (String[] args) { try { getEmployed(); } catch (SeriouslyUnemployedException unex) { this.giveUp(); this.move(); } } public Paycheck getEmployed() throws SeriouslyUnemployedException { long GAZILLION = 10000; Recruiter rec = new Recruiter(); rec.payFinderFee(); do { wasteTimeInEndlessInterviews(); sendEndlessResumes(); // This is currently deprecated. appealToPJUGForSuggestions(); if (rec.actuallyDoesSomethingForMe() == TRUE) { return rec.getPaychek(); } attempts++; } while(rec.getResults == null && attempts < GAZILLION ); throw UnemployedException(); } }// end class JavaProgrammer Someone at PJUG might then reply to you: ----------------------------------------- Dear Robb, Obviously, you cannot call getEmployed() from the Portland job market "static context"! ----------------------------------------- See how this works now? ;-) OBVIOUSLY, I'm being satirical in lampooning some of the indifference that certain PJUG members have displayed recently. ************************************************************* * I do completely understand your situation, and you have * * my VERY sincere wishes for better fortune in NY. * ************************************************************* -JM _______________________________________________ Jason Morris said: > ===== > Dear PJUG, > > I cannot get this to compile, can someone help me?? > Thank you! This was brilliant and accurate. Oh, and I do have some advice for fellow Java job seekers: Broadway Cab needs night drivers. 7 days/week, 7pm - 7am. If you can wait 2-3 months for a background check to go through, then you can be qualified to drive "Medical Transport" trips, and you should choose to drive a van - you'll be driving people to doctors visits - no strippers and junkies! But, make sure you're not late on your $420 weekly lease payment, or you'll get a $100 penalty added to your account. Robb _______________________________________________ From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Feb 11 15:49:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed Feb 11 15:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] /etc/hosts.allow question Message-ID: On my server/workstation here on the LAN, /etc/hosts.allow lets me ssh in from my notebook when it's on the network or when I use a modem to dial into my ISP shell account. However, I discovered yesterday, it's not configured to let me ssh directly from a dynamic IP address elsewhere (and outside the firewall). Is the correct syntax: sshd to add to /etc/hosts.allow so I can get into my server when I'm not here, but I have a dhcp-leased IP address? TIA, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From garl.grigsby at ugsplm.com Wed Feb 11 15:50:03 2004 From: garl.grigsby at ugsplm.com (Grigsby, Garl) Date: Wed Feb 11 15:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error Message-ID: <159441354A896D4A8886543D5043BC31B22976@uscimplm001.net.plm.eds.com> You may be out of Inodes. Try running df -i and make sure you have free Inodes. [root at nfsets1 root]# df -i / Filesystem Inodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on /dev/vg00/root 393216 29234 363982 8% / [root at nfsets1 root]# df / Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/vg00/root 1523250 792644 667692 55% / Garl > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Matt Alexander > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 2:10 PM > To: PDXLINUX > Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error > > > Here's the output from df: > > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda2 3.9G 1.4G 2.3G 39% / > none 46M 0 46M 0% /dev/shm > > > And then... > > # touch somefile > touch: cannot touch `somefile': No space left on device > > > Odd, no? I even rebooted, but the problem remains... > Any ideas what's going on? > Thanks, > ~M > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 11 15:59:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 11 15:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mozilla Firebi.... no... wait.. Mozilla Firefox Message-ID: <1076543477.8551.125.camel@dell.linux.box> I just installed Mozilla Firefox 0.8. So far, it seems virtually identical to Firebird 0.7. A few bugs seem to have been fixed... my old theme doesn't work... mosex doesn't work... but I haven't thus far been able to kill keyboard focus on it as I was able to do in Firebird 0.7 quite regularly. It seems to render a little bit faster than Firebird did... a few seconds quicker loading hardocp.com. I don't have any quantitative measurements, though, sorry. It seems to be an okay browser. :-) Rob From jack at endofhistory.com Wed Feb 11 16:22:02 2004 From: jack at endofhistory.com (jm) Date: Wed Feb 11 16:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] {Q} mimencode for RHL 8 system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040212002033.GA31514@quench.endofhistory.com> begin electrogrammati illius Roderick A. Anderson ... > I'm looking for a command line method to send HTML encoded (so the MUA > recognizes them as HTML - Content-Type: text/html) messages. > > Any suggestions? [1] If you don't mind sending it as an attachment you can use mutt (if you have it): $ mutt -i messagebody.txt -a report.html you at domain.com [2] If you do Perl I think MIME::Lite is what you want that does this. [3] I had this shell script bookmarked from when doing something similar, but have not tried it: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&safe=off&selm=398D296F.EC58A783%40telrad.co.il HTH, jm > Rod -- NP: $HOME/music/Mose_Allison_-_Monsters_of_the_Id.mp3 From baloo at ursine.ca Wed Feb 11 16:40:03 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Wed Feb 11 16:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040212003913.GE10784@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 03:10:12PM -0700, Matt Alexander wrote: > # touch somefile > touch: cannot touch `somefile': No space left on device > > > Odd, no? I even rebooted, but the problem remains... > Any ideas what's going on? Kind of sounds like you ran out of inodes... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAKssxUzgNqloQMwcRAo8uAJ929C1U2H1nA+G97oKQVXRpwAQUYQCfdN43 x8kVJFDQEeaQn27TjF9PZlo= =4eOi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Wed Feb 11 16:41:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Wed Feb 11 16:41:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: <31315-38199@sneakemail.com> References: <31315-38199@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20040212004007.GF10784@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 02:26:55PM -0800, Steve Bonds wrote: > You could do this online (maybe) but you could miss problems or even > create more problems by doing so. Strongly discouraged, since the easiest way happens to do it the right way... shutdown -rF now - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAKstnUzgNqloQMwcRAjxbAJoDpaM3l8/FwFXOW0W6yuCg4igVTQCgk+aO OEC5uAQiP2RCYofYpu27bUE= =ZgoH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From raanders at acm.org Wed Feb 11 17:20:02 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Wed Feb 11 17:20:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] {Q} mimencode for RHL 8 system In-Reply-To: <20040212002033.GA31514@quench.endofhistory.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, jm wrote: > [1] If you don't mind sending it as an attachment you can use mutt > (if you have it): > > $ mutt -i messagebody.txt -a report.html you at domain.com I'll look at this option. > [2] If you do Perl I think MIME::Lite is what you want that does > this. Yeah this report really shouldn't need perl but I did start it up to format a file size using the Number::Format module. It's looking like it's time to make the whole thing perl. > [3] I had this shell script bookmarked from when doing something similar, but > have not tried it: > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&safe=off&selm=398D296F.EC58A783%40telrad.co.il I'll look at this also. Thanks, Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From alexchally at earthlink.net Wed Feb 11 18:34:02 2004 From: alexchally at earthlink.net (Alex Chally) Date: Wed Feb 11 18:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Vi Tutorial and man files Message-ID: <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> Does anyone know a good vi tutorial? I am self-teaching myself, and figured I should stop using pico for editing goodness. How does one add a man file? Specificly to my OS X box, and if it is different, to my Fedora box. -Alex From jeme at brelin.net Wed Feb 11 19:01:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Wed Feb 11 19:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Vi Tutorial and man files In-Reply-To: <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> References: <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Alex Chally wrote: > Does anyone know a good vi tutorial? I am self-teaching myself, and > figured I should stop using pico for editing goodness. Get a cribsheet. Either get the O'Reilly VI book or the tiny pocket guide if you're going to get a book. But really, just download a cribsheet and start editting documents... look things up as you need them and make notes when you see a cool and clever trick. Really, these things are best learned by beating your head against them. > How does one add a man file? Specificly to my OS X box, and if it is > different, to my Fedora box. Just put it in the MANPATH. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 11 19:14:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 11 19:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mozilla Firebi.... no... wait.. Mozilla Firefox In-Reply-To: <1076543477.8551.125.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076543477.8551.125.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > So far, it seems virtually identical to Firebird 0.7. A few bugs > seem to have been fixed... my old theme doesn't work... mosex > doesn't work... but I haven't thus far been able to kill keyboard > focus on it as I was able to do in Firebird 0.7 quite regularly. Do themes *ever* work between any two versions of gecko-based browsers? > It seems to render a little bit faster than Firebird did... a few > seconds quicker loading hardocp.com. I don't have any quantitative > measurements, though, sorry. > > It seems to be an okay browser. :-) Yeah, I'd agree with that. It handles all my bookmarked sites correctly. -- Paul Heinlein From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 11 19:17:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 11 19:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] /etc/hosts.allow question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Is the correct syntax: > > sshd > > to add to /etc/hosts.allow so I can get into my server when I'm not > here, but I have a dhcp-leased IP address? If you're going to trust ssh explicitly (I do), then try sshd : ALL -- Paul Heinlein From brian at murraytwins.com Wed Feb 11 19:26:01 2004 From: brian at murraytwins.com (Brian Murray) Date: Wed Feb 11 19:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Vi Tutorial and man files In-Reply-To: References: <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040211191956.02ca8ad0@mail.comcast.net> A friend of mine frequently told me to use the vim tutorial, vimtutor, whenever I asked him how to do something in vi. I didn't for a long time, but was very grateful when I went through it as it was an invaluable resource. It has now become a running joke i.e. "How do you do anything?", "vimtutor". Anyway, it should be installed with a Red Hat distro, if not it is part of the vim-enchaned rpm. Brian At 07:00 PM 2/11/2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Alex Chally wrote: > > Does anyone know a good vi tutorial? I am self-teaching myself, and > > figured I should stop using pico for editing goodness. > >Get a cribsheet. Either get the O'Reilly VI book or the tiny pocket >guide if you're going to get a book. > >But really, just download a cribsheet and start editting documents... look >things up as you need them and make notes when you see a cool and clever >trick. > >Really, these things are best learned by beating your head against them. > > > How does one add a man file? Specificly to my OS X box, and if it is > > different, to my Fedora box. > >Just put it in the MANPATH. > >J. >-- > ----------------- > Jeme A Brelin > jeme at brelin.net > ----------------- > [cc] counter-copyright > http://www.openlaw.org > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From m at phxlinux.org Wed Feb 11 21:32:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 11 21:32:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: <20040211233806.GA3038@patch.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 03:10:12PM -0700, Matt Alexander wrote: > > Here's the output from df: > > > > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > > /dev/hda2 3.9G 1.4G 2.3G 39% / > > none 46M 0 46M 0% /dev/shm > > > > > > And then... > > > > # touch somefile > > touch: cannot touch `somefile': No space left on device > > Do a `df -i` which will give you an inode count. If you've > depleated your store of inodes you can get this message. > Would happen if you have lots of little files. Yep... I'm out of inodes... I had a Perl script running that was in fact creating a bajillion little files. So is there a way to increase my inode stockpile? Or do I need to reformat the partition with more inodes...? Thanks, ~M From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 11 21:40:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 11 21:40:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076563956.8548.168.camel@dell.linux.box> On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 21:30, Matt Alexander wrote: > Yep... I'm out of inodes... I had a Perl script running that was in fact > creating a bajillion little files. So is there a way to increase my inode > stockpile? Or do I need to reformat the partition with more inodes...? tar up the itty bitty files? It isn't that you'd need to reformat with more inodes, really... you'd need to reformat with *smaller* inodes (hence making more). I'd tar up the itty bitty files, though... maybe in a RAMdisk if you can't spare the inodes to do it. :-) Good luck. Rob From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Wed Feb 11 22:05:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Wed Feb 11 22:05:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Vi Tutorial and man files In-Reply-To: <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> References: <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1076565859.29284.0.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 17:20, Alex Chally wrote: > Does anyone know a good vi tutorial? Get a sheet covering the commands. You can print them or buy them at powell's technical. Saves lots of time. > I am self-teaching myself, Well I am glad you are not self-teaching someone else. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From seniorr at aracnet.com Wed Feb 11 22:31:01 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Wed Feb 11 22:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: <1076563956.8548.168.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076563956.8548.168.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <86smhgstbn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "AthlonRob" == AthlonRob writes: Matt> Yep... I'm out of inodes... I had a Perl script running that Matt> was in fact creating a bajillion little files. So is there a Matt> way to increase my inode stockpile? Or do I need to reformat Matt> the partition with more inodes...? AthlonRob> tar up the itty bitty files? AthlonRob> It isn't that you'd need to reformat with more inodes, AthlonRob> really... you'd need to reformat with *smaller* inodes AthlonRob> (hence making more). AthlonRob> I'd tar up the itty bitty files, though... maybe in a AthlonRob> RAMdisk if you can't spare the inodes to do it. :-) If you are going to create a new filesystem and you want to keep all those itty bitty files, you might also consider a filesystem that doesn't limit inodes, e.g. reiserfs. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From jeme at brelin.net Thu Feb 12 00:24:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Thu Feb 12 00:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: <86smhgstbn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <1076563956.8548.168.camel@dell.linux.box> <86smhgstbn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Russell Senior wrote: > If you are going to create a new filesystem and you want to keep all > those itty bitty files, you might also consider a filesystem that > doesn't limit inodes, e.g. reiserfs. Aye, Reiserfs is just fantastic... almost magical. jbrelin at person:~$ df -i Filesystem Inodes IUsed IFree IUse% Mounted on /dev/hda1 4294967295 0 4294967295 0% / /dev/hdc1 4294967295 0 4294967295 0% /usr/local/public snowman:/export/home 0 0 0 - /home (OK, that last one's an NFS mount) J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From freyley at gmx.net Thu Feb 12 00:28:02 2004 From: freyley at gmx.net (Jeff Schwaber) Date: Thu Feb 12 00:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] evolution under kde looks hideous Message-ID: <1076574386.16302.5.camel@zadie> Hello, I'm thinking of moving. Gnome has been my friend for a while, but the KDE desktop is much much nicer. It's just that the applications all suck. =) So now that I've started a flamewar within my first paragraph, Does anyone know of a way to make Evolution look halfway decent under KDE? I've got a somewhat decent theme and a nice style for KDE apps, but Evolution still comes up with the horribly amorphously rounded corners buttons and everything keramiky. OpenOffice is fine, even GAIM is acceptable, it's just Evolution that's all wacked out, begging to be returned to Gnome. Anyone? Jeff From jeme at brelin.net Thu Feb 12 00:30:04 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Thu Feb 12 00:30:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Vi Tutorial and man files In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040211191956.02ca8ad0@mail.comcast.net> References: <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> <94F536BE-5CF9-11D8-BF04-000A95EFA710@earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20040211191956.02ca8ad0@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Brian Murray wrote: > A friend of mine frequently told me to use the vim tutorial, vimtutor, > whenever I asked him how to do something in vi. I didn't for a long > time, but was very grateful when I went through it as it was an > invaluable resource. It has now become a running joke i.e. "How do you > do anything?", "vimtutor". Anyway, it should be installed with a Red > Hat distro, if not it is part of the vim-enchaned rpm. vimtutor is part of the vim package. I don't think anyone that has vim doesn't have it. It builds from the same source as vim. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From dzl at frenetic.com Thu Feb 12 02:30:02 2004 From: dzl at frenetic.com (Daniel Logghe) Date: Thu Feb 12 02:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] {Q} mimencode for RHL 8 system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402B5586.2050707@frenetic.com> Roderick A. Anderson wrote: > I'm looking for a command line method to send HTML encoded (so the MUA > recognizes them as HTML - Content-Type: text/html) messages. > > Any suggestions? The easiest method I can think of would be to use Perl and MIME::Lite, at least to make a quick little program that you could pipe HTML to and have it email you. If you want to avoid using Perl it would also be pretty easy to generate your message manually and pipe it into sendmail. There's only two variable headers, date, and content-length, so as long as you can figure out those appropriately the rest is pretty static. For reference here's what a message with html content should look like, ready to be piped into sendmail (this is output from a quick little MIME::Lite program btw): Content-Disposition: inline Content-Length: 61 Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/html MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.72; A1.59; B2.21; Q2.21) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:22:10 UT From: dzl at frenetic.com To: dzl at frenetic.com Subject: The Subject

A paragraph

A header

From m at phxlinux.org Thu Feb 12 05:38:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Thu Feb 12 05:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] evolution under kde looks hideous In-Reply-To: <1076574386.16302.5.camel@zadie> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Jeff Schwaber wrote: > Hello, > > I'm thinking of moving. Gnome has been my friend for a while, but the > KDE desktop is much much nicer. It's just that the applications all > suck. =) So now that I've started a flamewar within my first paragraph, > > Does anyone know of a way to make Evolution look halfway decent under > KDE? I've got a somewhat decent theme and a nice style for KDE apps, but > Evolution still comes up with the horribly amorphously rounded corners > buttons and everything keramiky. OpenOffice is fine, even GAIM is > acceptable, it's just Evolution that's all wacked out, begging to be > returned to Gnome. KMail? ;-) Oh, and upgrade to KDE 3.2 as well... it's niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice... From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 12 06:49:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 12 06:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] /etc/hosts.allow question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > If you're going to trust ssh explicitly (I do), then try > > sshd : ALL Paul, Makes sense to me that if I'm going to trust ssh with my pass{phrase|word}, access and exchanges then I should permit it to decide that it's only me to let in. Change made. Now, I suppose, I'll need to wait for the clinic to test this. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From cstevens at gencom.us Thu Feb 12 09:31:02 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Thu Feb 12 09:31:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] New MWVLUG Forums Message-ID: <1076605796.13369.227.camel@sparticus> Hi, All! MWVLUG forums are available online! Just click the "forums" link on the left hand side of MWVLUG's web page, here: http://www.mwvlug.org/ The following topics are available: Technical Q & A MWVLUG Business Activism Job Postings/Professionals Available Why forums instead of the mailing list? 1) Moderation: lower signal-to-noise ratio 2) Longevity: Messages are stored indefinitely and may be searched/retrieved at any time 3) Centralized: You'll always know where to look for job postings, etc. The forums are backed up daily to ensure data integrity. The server is physically housed in a secure facility. If you have other topics you would like in the forums, please let me know. Likewise if you have something you would like me to post. Moderator accounts are also available. I hope you enjoy it! Best, -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From mikedela at ipns.com Thu Feb 12 10:19:02 2004 From: mikedela at ipns.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Thu Feb 12 10:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? Message-ID: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> cdrecord dev=0,1,0 -v -v -v -dummy -multi -nofix /home/mydocuments/*.zip I'm toying with being able to write automatic backups for a customer. On my FC1 system, this seems to work. I'm already moving the backups around based on date on the server, so all of the files I want to burn are in the same dir. I'll run the command as a cron job. Any thoughts about it's stability, etc? -- Mike De La Mater Small Business Networks and Computers Your key to technology that works mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 12 10:35:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 12 10:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Mike De La Mater wrote: > cdrecord dev=0,1,0 -v -v -v -dummy -multi -nofix /home/mydocuments/*.zip ^^^^^^^ You can make these all one option, '-vvv'. This is one way of calling them from scripts: cdrecord -v speed=8 dev=1,0,0 -eject $* I put the '-v' first and a speed specification second. However, it should work as expected. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Thu Feb 12 10:44:01 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Thu Feb 12 10:44:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <1076611427.2325.13.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 10:34, Rich Shepard wrote: > You can make these all one option, '-vvv'. Easy enough, I guessed, but wasn't willing to make a coaster just to see. > > This is one way of calling them from scripts: > cdrecord -v speed=8 dev=1,0,0 -eject $* What's the $* for? it looks like the file name spec. I'm having a hard time mounting the drive after burning it, iso9660 returns as an invalid file system, any clues (even after I have it fix the drive after burning) cdrecord -vvvv dev=0,1,0 -multi /home/mydocuments/*.zip -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From Rob.Anderson at nike.com Thu Feb 12 10:47:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Thu Feb 12 10:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 Message-ID: So I got my MythTV box all working great. Just need to get it on the network so I can have it update the program guide regularly and do CDDB lookups, etc. I got a Linksys WET11 (10baseT ethernet to 802.11b wireless). I plugged it into my Myth box and got no link light, of course it works on my Windows box just fine. I called Linksys support and wasted my time for a while. Then I found Intel's documentation for the e1000 driver. I then adjusted me settings in /etc/modules.conf... alias eth0 e1000 options eth0 Speed=10 Duplex=2 I then ran... # ifconfig eth0 down # rmmod e1000 # insmod e1000 Speed=10 Duplex=2 The WET11 link light came on, but the link light on my Myth box was still off. I tried half duplex also (Duplex=1) and was able to ping the WET11 only briefly. I then looked at dmesg and saw something like... eth0 link up eth0 link down eth0 link up eth0 link down It comes up and down a few time and then stays down. Pretty flakey. I am pretty sure that the WET11 is fully functional becuase when I connect it to my other linux box (different NIC), or even my windows box, it works flawlessly. I could pop another network card in my Myth box and it would probably work fine, but I'd rather make it work with the onboard Intel Pro /1000 MT with the e1000 driver, if possible. Any suggestions how I might troubleshoot this further? Thanks, _________________________________________________________________ Robert Anderson Sr. System Engineer Nike - Global Trade IT (503) 532-6803 d "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend; inside of dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx From AthlonRob at axpr.net Thu Feb 12 10:51:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Thu Feb 12 10:51:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076611834.8552.198.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 10:46, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > Any suggestions how I might troubleshoot this further? Check your network cable... swap out other network cables... crossover or straight through? If it were me, I'd just drop an rtl8139 in there. Rob From cstevens at gencom.us Thu Feb 12 10:58:01 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Thu Feb 12 10:58:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076610997.13369.281.camel@sparticus> Yeah, if you're cabling directly from machine to machine you will need a crossover cable. -Cooper On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 10:46, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > So I got my MythTV box all working great. Just need to get it on the network so I can have it update the program guide regularly and do CDDB lookups, etc. I got a Linksys WET11 (10baseT ethernet to 802.11b wireless). I plugged it into my Myth box and got no link light, of course it works on my Windows box just fine. I called Linksys support and wasted my time for a while. Then I found Intel's documentation for the e1000 driver. I then adjusted me settings in /etc/modules.conf... > > alias eth0 e1000 > options eth0 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > I then ran... > > # ifconfig eth0 down > # rmmod e1000 > # insmod e1000 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > The WET11 link light came on, but the link light on my Myth box was still off. I tried half duplex also (Duplex=1) and was able to ping the WET11 only briefly. I then looked at dmesg and saw something like... > > eth0 link up > eth0 link down > eth0 link up > eth0 link down > > It comes up and down a few time and then stays down. Pretty flakey. I am pretty sure that the WET11 is fully functional becuase when I connect it to my other linux box (different NIC), or even my windows box, it works flawlessly. I could pop another network card in my Myth box and it would probably work fine, but I'd rather make it work with the onboard Intel Pro /1000 MT with the e1000 driver, if possible. > > Any suggestions how I might troubleshoot this further? > > Thanks, > > _________________________________________________________________ > Robert Anderson Sr. System Engineer Nike - Global Trade IT (503) 532-6803 d > > "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best > friend; inside of dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 12 11:13:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 12 11:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <1076611427.2325.13.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076611427.2325.13.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Mike De La Mater wrote: > What's the $* for? it looks like the file name spec. Mike: Here's the context. On Wed May 15 13:39:04 2002, Jay Pfaffman posted to the xfce mail list: I've got a couple scripts that call them with the various arcane switches that I like. . . mkimage: #!/bin/sh if test $# -lt 2 ; then echo $0 imagename directoryname echo "Write an iso filesystem of directoryname with Rock Ridge and Joliet " echo "extentions, as well as Mac-HFS extensions to imagename. The volume will" echo "be named directoryname on Macs, PeeCees and even Solaris." exit fi IMAGE="$1" SOURCE="$2" shift 2 cd "$SOURCE" rm -f "$SOURCE.ps" "$SOURCE.pdf" "$SOURCE.txt" mp3report --template=/home/pfaffman/bin/mp3report.support/textonly.html -o "$SOURCE.txt" . cd .. cdlabelgen -t /usr/share/cdlabelgen/envelope.ps -f"$SOURCE/$SOURCE.txt" -o "$SOURCE/$SOURCE.ps" -c "$SOURCE" -s " " ps2pdf "$SOURCE/$SOURCE.ps" "$SOURCE/$SOURCE.pdf" mkhybrid -a -hide-joliet ".Apple*" -r -hfs -no-desktop --exchange --netatalk -map /home/pfaffman/bin/apple-map -J -V "$SOURCE" -o "$IMAGE" $* "$SOURCE" cddatawrite: #!/bin/sh echo Pressing $* cdrecord -v speed=8 dev=1,0,0 -eject $* play /usr/share/sounds/KDE_Beep_RimShot.wav & cdaudioread: #!/bin/sh cd /home/tmp disc-cover rm -f toc-file data.bin *.wav # relax # cdrdao read-cd --paranoia-mode 3 --eject --source-device 0,5,0 $* toc-file cdrdao read-cd --paranoia-mode 3 --driver generic-mmc --eject --source-device 1,0,0 $* toc-file play /usr/share/sounds/gnobots2/yahoo.wav & cdaudiowrite: #!/bin/sh cd /home/tmp echo Pressing data.bin #cat toc-file cdrdao write --driver generic-mmc --reload --eject --device 1,0,0 $*toc-file play /usr/share/sounds/startup1.wav & These may give you some ideas. Also, could some of the environment variables need to be explicitly set? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From seniorr at aracnet.com Thu Feb 12 11:14:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Thu Feb 12 11:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <1076611427.2325.13.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <1076611427.2325.13.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <867jysm7pi.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Mike" == Mike De La Mater writes: Mike> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 10:34, Rich Shepard wrote: >> You can make these all one option, '-vvv'. Mike> Easy enough, I guessed, but wasn't willing to make a coaster Mike> just to see. >> This is one way of calling them from scripts: cdrecord -v speed=8 >> dev=1,0,0 -eject $* Mike> What's the $* for? it looks like the file name spec. Mike> I'm having a hard time mounting the drive after burning it, Mike> iso9660 returns as an invalid file system, any clues (even after Mike> I have it fix the drive after burning) Mike> cdrecord -vvvv dev=0,1,0 -multi /home/mydocuments/*.zip The files you a giving aren't iso's, maybe? If you want to make an iso9660 CDR, you'll have to run mkisofs somewhere in there. See the examples section of the cdrecord manpage. Something like: # mkisofs -R /home/mydocuments/*.zip | cdrecord ... dev=0,1,0 - -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From dzl at frenetic.com Thu Feb 12 11:17:01 2004 From: dzl at frenetic.com (Daniel Logghe) Date: Thu Feb 12 11:17:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <402BD11C.9040606@frenetic.com> Mike De La Mater wrote: > cdrecord dev=0,1,0 -v -v -v -dummy -multi -nofix /home/mydocuments/*.zip > > I'm toying with being able to write automatic backups for a customer. > > On my FC1 system, this seems to work. I'm already moving the backups > around based on date on the server, so all of the files I want to burn > are in the same dir. I'll run the command as a cron job. Any thoughts > about it's stability, etc? > I doubt this is doing what you want it to be doing. What it is doing is burning each zip file you're passing it directly to the cd as a track. This might actually work as a backup method but you'll have to devise some way of extracting the data off the cd again because you can't just mount it as a regular cd, which is expecting an iso9660 filesystem. To get it into a filesystem you'll have to pipe it through mkisofs first. From Rob.Anderson at nike.com Thu Feb 12 11:18:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Thu Feb 12 11:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 Message-ID: There is a "X - ||" switch on the WET11. It is set to X, which is the crossover setting. The cable is not the issue becuase it works on my other linux box, and my windows box too. -Rob Anderson > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of D. Cooper Stevenson > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:37 AM > To: PLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 > > > Yeah, if you're cabling directly from machine to machine you > will need a > crossover cable. > > > -Cooper > > On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 10:46, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > > So I got my MythTV box all working great. Just need to get > it on the network so I can have it update the program guide > regularly and do CDDB lookups, etc. I got a Linksys WET11 > (10baseT ethernet to 802.11b wireless). I plugged it into my > Myth box and got no link light, of course it works on my > Windows box just fine. I called Linksys support and wasted my > time for a while. Then I found Intel's documentation for the > e1000 driver. I then adjusted me settings in /etc/modules.conf... > > > > alias eth0 e1000 > > options eth0 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > > > I then ran... > > > > # ifconfig eth0 down > > # rmmod e1000 > > # insmod e1000 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > > > The WET11 link light came on, but the link light on my Myth > box was still off. I tried half duplex also (Duplex=1) and > was able to ping the WET11 only briefly. I then looked at > dmesg and saw something like... > > > > eth0 link up > > eth0 link down > > eth0 link up > > eth0 link down > > > > It comes up and down a few time and then stays down. Pretty > flakey. I am pretty sure that the WET11 is fully functional > becuase when I connect it to my other linux box (different > NIC), or even my windows box, it works flawlessly. I could > pop another network card in my Myth box and it would probably > work fine, but I'd rather make it work with the onboard Intel > Pro /1000 MT with the e1000 driver, if possible. > > > > Any suggestions how I might troubleshoot this further? > > > > Thanks, > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Robert Anderson Sr. System Engineer Nike - Global Trade > IT (503) 532-6803 d > > > > "Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best > > friend; inside of dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | > | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | > | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Thu Feb 12 11:37:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Thu Feb 12 11:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <402BD11C.9040606@frenetic.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <402BD11C.9040606@frenetic.com> Message-ID: <1076614590.2325.20.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 11:16, Daniel Logghe wrote: > I doubt this is doing what you want it to be doing. What it is doing is > burning each zip file you're passing it directly to the cd as a track. > This might actually work as a backup method but you'll have to devise > some way of extracting the data off the cd again because you can't just > mount it as a regular cd, which is expecting an iso9660 filesystem. > > To get it into a filesystem you'll have to pipe it through mkisofs first. You and Russell have it right. I can make an iso first, then burn that. I want the files on the CD to be uniquely named./ Does the name of the iso matter once it's burned? I'll play with that. I've tried # mkisofs -R /home/mydocuments/*.zip | cdrecord But there seems to be a need for the mkisofs to have a name, not just a pipe. Does that look like an accurate observation? -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 12 11:41:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 12 11:41:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <1076614590.2325.20.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <402BD11C.9040606@frenetic.com> <1076614590.2325.20.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Mike De La Mater wrote: > But there seems to be a need for the mkisofs to have a name, not just a > pipe. Does that look like an accurate observation? Yes. And I assumed you had already run mkisofs. :-) The sample scripts I sent should give you some food for thought (if not for lunch). Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Feb 12 12:12:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu Feb 12 12:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage Message-ID: Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines this morning? My home system was unavailable for about three hours. --Paul Heinlein From lemming at quirkyqatz.com Thu Feb 12 12:26:02 2004 From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark Morgan) Date: Thu Feb 12 12:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55225.134.134.136.1.1076617517.squirrel@webmail.pair.com> Paul Heinlein said: > Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines this > morning? My home system was unavailable for about three hours. Mine was fine before 7:30 am. Don't know since then. -- Mark http://www.kittydream.org - House of Dreams Cat Shelter http://www.quirkyqatz.com/lemming - My own stuff From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Thu Feb 12 12:35:03 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Thu Feb 12 12:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18034-12875@sneakemail.com> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein heinlein-at-madboa.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines this > morning? My home system was unavailable for about three hours. Mine is up, though I noticed they started filtering inbound ICMP echo requests. -- Steve From omega at pdxcolo.net Thu Feb 12 12:47:02 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Thu Feb 12 12:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076618792.817.12.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 12:10, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines this > morning? My home system was unavailable for about three hours. Mike's link at home is out, has been for a couple hours. He called and they said they were working on some kind of large-scale problem covering a nontrivial area (i.e. all of Portland). Still not up as of right now. From seniorr at aracnet.com Thu Feb 12 13:14:01 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:14:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <1076614590.2325.20.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <402BD11C.9040606@frenetic.com> <1076614590.2325.20.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <867jysknl7.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Mike" == Mike De La Mater writes: Mike> You and Russell have it right. I can make an iso first, then Mike> burn that. I want the files on the CD to be uniquely named./ Mike> Does the name of the iso matter once it's burned? Mike> I'll play with that. Mike> I've tried # mkisofs -R /home/mydocuments/*.zip | cdrecord Mike> But there seems to be a need for the mkisofs to have a name, not Mike> just a pipe. Does that look like an accurate observation? The hyphen in the cdrecord portion, e.g.: mkisofs foo | cdrecord dev=bar - means "use standard input" instead of a named file. Many unix commands use that convention. Again, see the examples in the cdrecord manpage. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From seniorr at aracnet.com Thu Feb 12 13:27:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Heinlein writes: Paul> Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines Paul> this morning? My home system was unavailable for about three Paul> hours. Yup. It is still out in one particular SE Portland neighborhood (at least). I've switched my default route to DSL, so I can't say right now if my Comcast-connection is still hosed. ... okay, I checked, mine (in NE Portland) is back up. The still unreachable SE Portland host is on 24.21.143.xxx. According to my logs, the outage started there shortly (within 5 minutes) after 9:08 this morning. Does anyone know (off hand) where Comcast's outages page is? I seem to remember seeing one before, but it the grand tradition of big telecommunications carriers, they make their websites totally /sbin/fsck'ing impenetrable and I can't find it at the moment. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Thu Feb 12 13:32:01 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:32:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <867jysknl7.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <402BD11C.9040606@frenetic.com> <1076614590.2325.20.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <867jysknl7.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <1076621504.4366.10.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 13:13, Russell Senior wrote: > Mike> But there seems to be a need for the mkisofs to have a name, not > Mike> just a pipe. Does that look like an accurate observation? > > mkisofs foo | cdrecord dev=bar - ^^ That's the device that was giving me problems. That's moot now, since I just discovered that to read do multi writes, I need to know the cluster numbers of the last writes. That will keep me from writing automagically via script. I'd like to write the files, one at a time to the drive, keeping the old files visible. I'm looking into udf. sourceforge has a few projects. I'll post soonly. > Again, see the examples in the cdrecord manpage. Nothing there addresses my -multi desires. (unless the clue stick is still needed) You've got some cool scripts, I've saved them for future perusings. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From baloo at ursine.ca Thu Feb 12 13:42:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040212214105.GA20873@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 12:10:29PM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines this > morning? My home system was unavailable for about three hours. Yeah, it went down just as I left for a job interview, and was back up when I came home. Anybody else notice Comcast gives ipv6 numbers as well now? I noticed that about two days ago. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAK/LxUzgNqloQMwcRAh1cAJ9KRpq6+F8seGw07Rem0a/8LzMzTgCgozKV ONvsMWPKRpuDdFz1lflB7k4= =oKTS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Thu Feb 12 13:43:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Thu Feb 12 13:43:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <18034-12875@sneakemail.com> References: <18034-12875@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20040212214221.GB20873@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 12:33:17PM -0800, Steve Bonds wrote: > Mine is up, though I noticed they started filtering inbound ICMP echo > requests. They more or less broke ICMP nearly entirely for a while. That was truly obnoxious. I can't say I'm entirely pleased that they think it's their responsibility to neuter ICMP anyway. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAK/M9UzgNqloQMwcRAtc6AJ9GUcz6/QYIQFE8HCUI3P2yqwXTXwCaA3BY KbQ04LSsUAJCB62PFDxn9Q0= =TPw+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From raanders at acm.org Thu Feb 12 14:11:01 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Thu Feb 12 14:11:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines this > morning? My home system was unavailable for about three hours. Maybe they're saving bandwidth/money for that Disney purchase? :-) Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From seniorr at aracnet.com Thu Feb 12 14:27:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Thu Feb 12 14:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <86lln8j5n9.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Russell" == Russell Senior writes: Russell> [...] The still unreachable SE Portland host is on Russell> 24.21.143.xxx. According to my logs, the outage started Russell> there shortly (within 5 minutes) after 9:08 this morning. As of 14:18, the SE Portland host is reachable again. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From AthlonRob at axpr.net Thu Feb 12 14:38:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Thu Feb 12 14:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076625426.8548.206.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 12:10, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines this > morning? My home system was unavailable for about three hours. I talked to a guy at school who said his outage started around 8:45 or so and lasted past when he needed to leave for school. He was unable to send in some homework due to the outage. He is on Comcast. Rob From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Feb 12 15:01:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu Feb 12 15:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> Russell Senior wrote: > According to my logs, the outage started there shortly > (within 5 minutes) after 9:08 this morning. That's similar, though not identical, to the timeframe I experienced as well. I know that I had connectivity until at least 7:30 and it may have lasted until closer to 8:00. After that, I was definitely offline. --Paul Heinlein From cmize at goiter.com Thu Feb 12 15:11:02 2004 From: cmize at goiter.com (Chuck Mize) Date: Thu Feb 12 15:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? Message-ID: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> Slashdot is reporting that source code for Windows 2000 and NT4 was leaked to the net but the link to the original story is down... http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/12/2114228 From kgmorse at mpcu.com Thu Feb 12 17:17:01 2004 From: kgmorse at mpcu.com (Keith Morse) Date: Thu Feb 12 17:17:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Chuck Mize wrote: > Slashdot is reporting that source code for Windows 2000 and NT4 was > leaked to the net but the link to the original story is down... > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/12/2114228 wonder if that sucker would be cached on google somewhere From dfb2001 at earthlink.net Thu Feb 12 17:20:03 2004 From: dfb2001 at earthlink.net (Dan Beale) Date: Thu Feb 12 17:20:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem Message-ID: <8138750.1076635195675.JavaMail.root@gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Hello, How can I connect to the internet using Red Hat 9, a D-Link DI-624 router and a comcast cable modem? My PC is set up to dual boot Windows and Linux, but the way, and the router/cable modem connects to the internet fine in windows. I tried everything I could think of in Red Hat 9 to get the internet connection going; I disabled the firewall, made sure the dhclient process was running using "ps -aux" and made sure eth0 was activated at startup. By the way, I can enter the router's IP address into Mozilla and go through the router setup wizard in linux just the same as I can in MS windows. Do I need to add my router's IP address to one of the dhcp or dns config files? Thanks, Dave From Rob.Anderson at nike.com Thu Feb 12 17:27:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Thu Feb 12 17:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem Message-ID: If you can reach the router from the linux boot, then you are on the network. Perhaps you do not have a default gateway defined. Run "/sbin/route" and send the output. -Rob Anderson > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Dan Beale > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:20 PM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: [PLUG] RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable > modem > > > Hello, > > How can I connect to the internet using Red Hat 9, a D-Link > DI-624 router and a comcast cable modem? My PC is set up to > dual boot Windows and Linux, but the way, and the > router/cable modem connects to the internet fine in windows. > > I tried everything I could think of in Red Hat 9 to get the > internet connection going; I disabled the firewall, made sure > the dhclient process was running using "ps -aux" and made > sure eth0 was activated at startup. By the way, I can enter > the router's IP address into Mozilla and go through the > router setup wizard in linux just the same as I can in MS windows. > > Do I need to add my router's IP address to one of the dhcp or > dns config files? > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 12 17:59:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 12 17:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] VoIP, the 'Net through your desk lamp, etc. Message-ID: Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 18:23:02 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Thu Feb 12 18:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040213022139.28112.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> Here is the text from the article:
Neowin has learned of shocking and potentially devastating news. It would appear that two packages are circulating on the internet, one being the source code to Windows 2000, and the other being the source code to Windows NT. At this time, it is hard to establish whether or not full code has leaked, and this will undoubtedly remain the situation until an attempt is made to compile them. Microsoft are currently unavailable for comment surrounding this leak so we have no official response from them at the time of writing. This leak is a shock not only to Neowin, but to the wider IT industry. The ramifications of this leak are far reaching and devastating. This reporter does not wish to be sensationalist, but the number of industries and critical systems that are based around these technologies that could be damaged by new exploits found in this source code is something that doesn't bare thinking about. We ask that for the wider benefit of the IT community that members and readers support Microsoft by forwarding anything they know about the leak to the Microsoft's Anti-Piracy department. Please do not post any links/screenshots/hints or anything to do with the source code outbreak. Discussion is allowed but we will not condone people spreading this source code.
-Scott --- Keith Morse wrote: > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Chuck Mize wrote: > > > Slashdot is reporting that source code for Windows 2000 and NT4 was > > leaked to the net but the link to the original story is down... > > > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/12/2114228 > > > wonder if that sucker would be cached on google somewhere > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From phillk6751 at comcast.net Thu Feb 12 20:54:02 2004 From: phillk6751 at comcast.net (phillip) Date: Thu Feb 12 20:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> Message-ID: <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> I found while searching slashdot a link to a file listing all of the files, and the total in the "windows 2000 source code" archive. What really gets me here is that at the end it notes that windows 2000 source code includes a grand total of 30915 files. Now compare that to my research of creating a quick program to process a file outputted by "ls -Rl > testfile; grep total testfile > newtestfile" which then gives me a few thousand lines that say "total xxxx" then i went into kwrite and did a replace all on "total " to ""...then i created a program to add up those numbers. I then came up with a grand total of 252312 files. Where does someone claim to have the source code to Windows 2000, and not even have 100k files. 30915 compared to 252312(even if you did take out all the other arch's wouldn't compare). This is most clearly a hoax, unless someone can prove me otherwise by providing a count from the "real leaked source code". --Phil On Thursday 12 February 2004 11:10 pm, Chuck Mize wrote: > Slashdot is reporting that source code for Windows 2000 and NT4 was > leaked to the net but the link to the original story is down... > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/12/2114228 > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From AthlonRob at axpr.net Thu Feb 12 20:58:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Thu Feb 12 20:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1076648270.8550.252.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 12:53, phillip wrote: > Where does someone claim to have the source code to Windows 2000, and not even > have 100k files. 30915 compared to 252312(even if you did take out all the > other arch's wouldn't compare). This is most clearly a hoax, unless someone > can prove me otherwise by providing a count from the "real leaked source > code". Check out the article on news.com ... it's supposedly part of the code, just snippets.. not the whole thing. Rob From lemming at quirkyqatz.com Thu Feb 12 20:59:02 2004 From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark) Date: Thu Feb 12 20:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> Message-ID: <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> Paul Heinlein wrote: > > Russell Senior wrote: > >> According to my logs, the outage started there shortly > > > (within 5 minutes) after 9:08 this morning. > > That's similar, though not identical, to the timeframe I experienced as > well. I know that I had connectivity until at least 7:30 and it may have > lasted until closer to 8:00. After that, I was definitely offline. According to my wife, we didn't have connectivity here either around noon. -Mark From phillk6751 at comcast.net Thu Feb 12 21:09:01 2004 From: phillk6751 at comcast.net (phillip) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <1076648270.8550.252.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> <1076648270.8550.252.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <200402122108.54733.phillk6751@comcast.net> On Friday 13 February 2004 4:57 am, AthlonRob wrote: Oh, interesting, well at least we know it is part of the real deal. I wonder that if this whole thing plays out well(people releasing code fixes to microsoft) that maybe Microsoft would start releasing parts of its source code for bugfixes,etc....although knowing MS, that's highly doubtful. -phil > Check out the article on news.com ... it's supposedly part of the code, > just snippets.. not the whole thing. > > Rob From galens at seitzassoc.com Thu Feb 12 21:23:02 2004 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter Message-ID: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> There is a letter in this week's edition of Willamette Week which is critical of Linux, and very much needing a response. I am wrapped up in a family health crisis, but I hope that some/many of you will find some time to respond. thanks, galen From ian at znark.com Thu Feb 12 21:26:02 2004 From: ian at znark.com (Ian Burrell) Date: Thu Feb 12 21:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> Message-ID: <402C5FAF.2000700@znark.com> phillip wrote: > I found while searching slashdot a link to a file listing all of the files, > and the total in the "windows 2000 source code" archive. > > What really gets me here is that at the end it notes that windows 2000 source > code includes a grand total of 30915 files. > > Now compare that to my research of creating a quick program to process a file > outputted by "ls -Rl > testfile; grep total testfile > newtestfile" which > then gives me a few thousand lines that say "total xxxx" then i went into > kwrite and did a replace all on "total " to ""...then i created a program to > add up those numbers. I then came up with a grand total of 252312 files. > > Where does someone claim to have the source code to Windows 2000, and not even > have 100k files. 30915 compared to 252312(even if you did take out all the > other arch's wouldn't compare). This is most clearly a hoax, unless someone > can prove me otherwise by providing a count from the "real leaked source > code". > The source code for Linux 2.6.1 contains 15000 files. I used "find -type f | wc" to do the count. Either you miscounted or kwrite has lots of tiny, little files. 31,000 files for Windows 2000 doesn't sound unreasonable. A line count would be a more accurate estimate of the amount of source code. - Ian -- ian at znark.com http://www.znark.com/ From phillk6751 at comcast.net Thu Feb 12 22:41:02 2004 From: phillk6751 at comcast.net (phillip) Date: Thu Feb 12 22:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <402C5FAF.2000700@znark.com> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> <402C5FAF.2000700@znark.com> Message-ID: <200402122240.53110.phillk6751@comcast.net> Okay you can completely forget i even SAID that....now that i take notice that number that shows up when you do ls -l, for example "total 2792" means the number of KB used in that directory....i don't know how on earth i was thinking that it meant number of files in the directory. so i guess windows sounds right....250 megs.....sure....but that the total is 40 gigs or more(according to news.com), which is just absolutely crazy for an operating system....how does one start with 40 gigs of source code, and end up with 1 single cd for the product? i just don't get it. -phil On Friday 13 February 2004 5:25 am, Ian Burrell wrote: > The source code for Linux 2.6.1 contains 15000 files. I used "find > -type f | wc" to do the count. Either you miscounted or kwrite has lots > of tiny, little files. > > 31,000 files for Windows 2000 doesn't sound unreasonable. A line count > would be a more accurate estimate of the amount of source code. > > - Ian From omega at pdxcolo.net Thu Feb 12 22:42:02 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Thu Feb 12 22:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perfect timing! PDXcolo.net site problems Message-ID: <1076094634.761.7.camel@localhost> With some of the most "perfect" timing I've ever seen, Nagios and MySQL conspired last night to fill our webserver's disk with nearly 1.7GB of logs, consisting of Nagios saying "Wheee! balin is up and pings in X ms." and "Wheee! dwalin is up and pings in Y ms." Logs were coming at a rate of maybe 100 *per second*. After shooting Nagios in the head, everything settled down. Now we're going to figure out what possessed MySQL to log every single query in excruciating detail, and slap that down. So.... if you couldn't get to our website over the last 16 hours, this would be why. None of our other machines, services, or customers were affected, just our ability to *get* new customers . TTAYL, Omega aka Erik Walthinsen omega at pdxcolo.net From mike at theplatinumrule.com Thu Feb 12 22:42:12 2004 From: mike at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Thu Feb 12 22:42:12 2004 Subject: [PLUG] multi-write to CD-R Message-ID: <1076476881.1729.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> I'm finally back on the burn multiple files at different times to the same CD-R project. I've got the burner installed on my fedora-Core 1 box and it burns CDs quite nicely. Now to the task. I want a command line method of burning the contents of a directory onto the CD. I'm sure that involves cdrecord, but I cannot find the switch that allows it to be done multi-session. Isn't that the term I need? Also- xcdroast strongly suggests that I install the burner in SCSI mode, is that important to anything else? -- Mike De La Mater Small Business Networks and Computers Your key to technology that works mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From m at pdxlug.org Thu Feb 12 22:42:30 2004 From: m at pdxlug.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Thu Feb 12 22:42:30 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OpenOffice column width Message-ID: Sometimes when I open an OpenOffice document a column will be so wide that I can never grab the right side of it to make it smaller. When I scroll to the right it automatically jumps to the next column. Has anyone experienced this and know of a fix? Thanks, ~M From m at pdxlug.org Thu Feb 12 22:42:50 2004 From: m at pdxlug.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Thu Feb 12 22:42:50 2004 Subject: [PLUG] DynDNS.org MailHop service? Message-ID: Has anyone here used the dyndns.org mailhop service? Basically you would run your mail server on a non-standard port and dyndns.org would relay your mail to that port. http://www.dyndns.org/services/mailhop/relay.html http://www.dyndns.org/services/mailhop/faq.html Has anyone had any problems/complaints with their service? Thanks, ~M From omega at pdxcolo.net Thu Feb 12 22:52:02 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Thu Feb 12 22:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Perfect timing! PDXcolo.net site problems In-Reply-To: <1076094634.761.7.camel@localhost> References: <1076094634.761.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1076655089.819.99.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-06 at 11:10, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > With some of the most "perfect" timing I've ever seen, . . . . Hmm, this was resent to the list a week ago after I subscribed this address, with a note to kill the message waiting in the queue. Oh well. More perfect timing ;-) From russell-evans at qwest.net Thu Feb 12 23:31:01 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Thu Feb 12 23:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040212233049.318d9f97@downtown> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:09 -0800 "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > alias eth0 e1000 > options eth0 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > I then ran... > > # ifconfig eth0 down > # rmmod e1000 > # insmod e1000 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > Any suggestions how I might troubleshoot this further? Have you verified the e1000 works with something else? Do you still see the flaky behavior? Thank you Russell From dfb2001 at earthlink.net Thu Feb 12 23:50:02 2004 From: dfb2001 at earthlink.net (Dan Beale) Date: Thu Feb 12 23:50:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fw: RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem Message-ID: <15758874.1076658571568.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Per request from Rob, I ran /sbin/route: Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface 192.168.0.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 169.254.0.0 * 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 127.0.0.0 * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo default 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 Is this right? Is there something I need to set up under System/Network/ethernet card? Should I add anything to the /etc/dhclient...conf file? Thanks! Dave P.S. In MS windows I checked under control panel/network/TCP-IP/advanced for any special gateway entered by the guy who installed the cable modem, but all it says is DHCP enabled. -----Forwarded Message----- From: Dan Beale Sent: Feb 12, 2004 5:19 PM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem Hello, How can I connect to the internet using Red Hat 9, a D-Link DI-624 router and a comcast cable modem? My PC is set up to dual boot Windows and Linux, but the way, and the router/cable modem connects to the internet fine in windows. I tried everything I could think of in Red Hat 9 to get the internet connection going; I disabled the firewall, made sure the dhclient process was running using "ps -aux" and made sure eth0 was activated at startup. By the way, I can enter the router's IP address into Mozilla and go through the router setup wizard in linux just the same as I can in MS windows. Do I need to add my router's IP address to one of the dhcp or dns config files? Thanks, Dave From russell-evans at qwest.net Thu Feb 12 23:50:11 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Thu Feb 12 23:50:11 2004 Subject: [PLUG] cdrecord commands-how does this look? In-Reply-To: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076609895.2325.6.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040212234942.06e128c7@downtown> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:18:15 -0800 "Mike De La Mater" wrote: > cdrecord dev=0,1,0 -v -v -v -dummy -multi -nofix > /home/mydocuments/*.zip > > I'm toying with being able to write automatic backups for a customer. > > On my FC1 system, this seems to work. I'm already moving the backups > around based on date on the server, so all of the files I want to burn > are in the same dir. I'll run the command as a cron job. Any thoughts > about it's stability, etc? I think you should look at growisofs from dvd+rw-tools. it supports CD as well as DVD media. http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/ Thank you Russell From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 13 00:55:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 13 00:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <200402122240.53110.phillk6751@comcast.net> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> <402C5FAF.2000700@znark.com> <200402122240.53110.phillk6751@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, phillip wrote: > how does one start with 40 gigs of source code, and end up with 1 single > cd for the product? i just don't get it. It's pretty straightforward, actually. First, a good number of the files in the source tree are no longer actively part of the product. Second, a good number of the files are instructions for the build process and contain no code that is compiled into the product. Third, a good portion of the actual code contains non-instructive comments and whitespace. Fourth, the source tree contains code for multiple hardware architectures. Fifth, compilation is a reduction in space such that long instructions meant for humans to read and write can often be reduced to a single byte of machine code. Lastly, the compiled binaries are then compressed into archives for distribution on CD. Consider, even that the Linux kernel (2.4.20) is around 160MB of text and compiles with every module down to about 10MB for a given architecture. And that's just the kernel. The higher level code is less dense and more abundant. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 00:57:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 00:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> Message-ID: <20040213085611.GB3305@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 03:10:22PM -0800, Chuck Mize wrote: > Slashdot is reporting that source code for Windows 2000 and NT4 was > leaked to the net but the link to the original story is down... > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/02/12/2114228 Yeah, I heard about that on the BBC World Service before KOPB-FM's transmitter went out while I was driving home from a late shift. Tried switching to KOPB-AM, but it turns out my truck's engine and turn signals throw off lots of 550KHz interference, and KOPB-AM is almost as weak as Benson High School's KBPS-AM transmitter... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALJErUzgNqloQMwcRAn4TAJ9sPYozIpQoXxRPrS5mHXt8QHfbWACbBnP0 4Gp6Vnw6SOHslyoSeQ7Gwl4= =Zy7b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 01:02:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 01:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <402C5FAF.2000700@znark.com> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> <402C5FAF.2000700@znark.com> Message-ID: <20040213090115.GC3305@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:25:03PM -0800, Ian Burrell wrote: > 31,000 files for Windows 2000 doesn't sound unreasonable. A line count > would be a more accurate estimate of the amount of source code. Not really. I've heard from more than one reliable source that Microsoft programmers are on a line quota. In another words, each code monkey has to consistently hit a minimum number of lines of code per day or they're sacked. Thanks to this, we will probably never know how much of that code is actually effective and not just the programmers trying to bulk it up, and only time will tell just how long Microsoft's business model lasts before it collapses onto itself in giant balls of spaghetti code reminiscent of the ending of Akira or the Trapper Keeper episode of South Park. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALJJbUzgNqloQMwcRArjnAKCtzZjfVFv59uAQJ0mZAnqEWUX6igCgiD5A p1KTd5D+Da84ftOnFHBe+9U= =oUXJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 01:06:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 01:06:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <200402122240.53110.phillk6751@comcast.net> References: <1076627422.3865.26.camel@simba.goiter.com> <200402122053.57376.phillk6751@comcast.net> <402C5FAF.2000700@znark.com> <200402122240.53110.phillk6751@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20040213090519.GD3305@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:40:53PM +0000, phillip wrote: > how does one start with 40 gigs of source code, and end up with 1 > single cd for the product? i just don't get it. Wow, for a Linux user, you really missed the writing on the wall. It happens in much the same way 183MB of kernel source gets whittled down to a 1.2MB kernel image. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALJNPUzgNqloQMwcRAjOVAJ0V6eONOMKYskC9Tthv5XuRNELrjACgwJRN /s0YNZ/MXqHwh+rKQfDYhpE= =tnfD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 01:11:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 01:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Windows 2000 code leaked? In-Reply-To: <20040213022139.28112.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040213022139.28112.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040213091050.GE3305@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Top posting is considered harmful. http://learn.to/quote/ On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 06:21:39PM -0800, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > This leak is a shock not only to Neowin, but to the wider IT industry. > The ramifications of this leak are far reaching and devastating. This > reporter does not wish to be sensationalist, but the number of > industries and critical systems that are based around these > technologies that could be damaged by new exploits found in this source > code is something that doesn't bare thinking about. Neowin's authors are definitely sub-intelligent. This was a problem they should have been worrying about all along with closed-source software. You will only find critical security concerns when you develop in the dark and some rogue with access to the archives and releases the code. This is a crippling flaw in all closed-source software, and reason enough why nobody should use it. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALJSaUzgNqloQMwcRAswYAJ94OFa8SrE9t5mpyMQo1yZO96z4qwCeNg3D oSsmrKOkP5tNcEHbqCBuLuA= =S+F3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 01:12:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 01:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:22:10PM -0800, Galen Seitz wrote: > > There is a letter in this week's edition of Willamette Week which is > critical of Linux, and very much needing a response. I am wrapped > up in a family health crisis, but I hope that some/many of you will > find some time to respond. Linkage? A copy? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALJS5UzgNqloQMwcRAiBjAJ0UMbQido5vXJPUD0xcTAVNM6iQ8QCdHACu Cb5OSkWaj4Q0b0Ok4BkY/Mw= =nlM1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 13 06:00:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 13 06:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Mark wrote: > According to my wife, we didn't have connectivity here either around noon. Today's Oregonian reports that someone tripped over a fiberoptic cable west of downtown Portland and broke it. The outages covered Eugene to Clark County, WA. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From keith at ahapala.net Fri Feb 13 08:26:01 2004 From: keith at ahapala.net (Keith Nasman) Date: Fri Feb 13 08:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 01:11:21AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:22:10PM -0800, Galen Seitz wrote: > > > > There is a letter in this week's edition of Willamette Week which is > > critical of Linux, and very much needing a response. I am wrapped > > up in a family health crisis, but I hope that some/many of you will > > find some time to respond. > > Linkage? A copy? > I think this is what Galen is refering to: http://willametteweek.com/story.php?story=4813 Third letter down. Keith From zot at zotconsulting.com Fri Feb 13 08:54:02 2004 From: zot at zotconsulting.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 13 08:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Locking the sytem with usb headset and alsa Message-ID: <1076691240.6186.9.camel@kat.zotnet.com> So I bought a labtec 711 usb headset (LVA-8711). I can lock the system repeatedly..... Method: Reboot Log into X Plug in Headset run kphone (3.14, http://www.wirlab.net/kphone/ built with checkinstall) Ensure it is pointing at /dev/dsp1 Connect to asterisk server on local net. Listen to the popping sound. Think about further testing. Watch call get disconnected. See Kphone start to blank window. Wonder why it stopped. Notice the mouse stopped working (not too unusual with Sond apps as they sometimes slow things down). Notice the blinking caps lock and scroll lock. Wonder if I was running windows. OS: RH9, stock updated kernel: 2.4.20-28.9 Sound: Alsa, built from fresh rpms src rpm: kernel-module-alsa-0.9.8-1.fr_2.4.20_28.9 This system almost never locks up otherwise. It is my workstation and gets lots of abuse. Any ideas before I pound on the alsa lists? Thanks! -- Zot O'Connor White Knight Hackers, Inc. From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 13 08:59:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 13 08:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fw: RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem In-Reply-To: <15758874.1076658571568.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> References: <15758874.1076658571568.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1076691494.27884.2.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 23:49, Dan Beale wrote: > default 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0 Is that the IP address of the router thingy you can ping? If so, good. If not, bad. Now, we've established at least that DNS does not work. What about just plain getting out? Can you ping my UML's IP of 65.19.161.203? If so, you just need to set up DNS. If not, then things are more messed up than that. Rob From cstevens at gencom.us Fri Feb 13 09:13:01 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 13 09:13:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <1076691113.13363.1646.camel@sparticus> I'm on it. On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 21:22, Galen Seitz wrote: > There is a letter in this week's edition of Willamette Week which is > critical of Linux, and very much needing a response. I am wrapped > up in a family health crisis, but I hope that some/many of you will > find some time to respond. > > thanks, > galen > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 13 09:48:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 13 09:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: References: <20040211233806.GA3038@patch.com> Message-ID: <20040213174727.GA23243@patch.com> On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:30:28PM -0700, Matt Alexander wrote: > Yep... I'm out of inodes... I had a Perl script running that was in fact > creating a bajillion little files. So is there a way to increase my inode > stockpile? Or do I need to reformat the partition with more inodes...? > Thanks, Rather than reformatting the drive or switching to ReiserFS how about changing the Perl to write fewer files that contain all the data? -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: Well, here I am in AMERICA.. I LIKE it. I HATE it. I LIKE it. I HATE it. I LIKE it. I HATE it. I LIKE it. I HATE it. I LIKE ... EMOTIONS are SWEEPING over me!! From Rob.Anderson at nike.com Fri Feb 13 09:52:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Fri Feb 13 09:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 Message-ID: <200402131750.i1DHouio007954@barrierb241.nike.com> Yes. The e1000 works with just about anything else. I can connect this linux box to my linksys router and it works fine. I can even use it with the WET11 if I connect them both to a hub. It only fails to work when connected directly to the WET11. I am going to try a different NIC this weekend. That should make it work, but the mystery remains. -Rob Anderson > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Russell Evans > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:31 PM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 > > > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:46:09 -0800 > "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > > > alias eth0 e1000 > > options eth0 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > > > I then ran... > > > > # ifconfig eth0 down > > # rmmod e1000 > > # insmod e1000 Speed=10 Duplex=2 > > > > Any suggestions how I might troubleshoot this further? > > Have you verified the e1000 works with something else? Do you > still see > the flaky behavior? > > Thank you > Russell > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 13 09:55:03 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 13 09:55:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Galen Seitz wrote: > There is a letter in this week's edition of Willamette Week which is > critical of Linux, and very much needing a response. I am wrapped > up in a family health crisis, but I hope that some/many of you will > find some time to respond. Here are some talking points that occur to me: * "[T]he $100 saved." Windows for $100? I think not. The OS alone *might* cost you that much if it's an upgrade or preinstalled, but certainly not if you had to buy it outright. And what about the cost of MS Office or Mr. Schieberl's web-dev tools? Plus, he mentions working with 'Windows servers.' Has he priced them lately? If he can get a Windows Server OS for $100, he ought to let the rest of us know about it... * "Most people use their computers for business, Web browsing, email and printing pictures in a thought-free environment." Oh, that explains the legions of gamers, computer audiophiles, bloggers, and maintainers of hobbyist web sites! I'd say that thought-free users don't care about their OS. As long as IT can keep it running, the world is OK. In fact, many people put serious time into understanding their computers and applications. Knowledge is hard-won, regardless of whether someone is running Free or proprietary software. * "Poor security in Windows is a thing of the past." Last week? Last month? How does he explain the monthly (if not weekly) virus outbreaks? * "Open-source software generally suffers coding inconsistencies and untreated bugs." I guess this is true if you consider every open-source project worldwide, version 0.01 and above. It's certainly far less true of widely used projects. -- Paul Heinlein From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 13 09:56:01 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Fri Feb 13 09:56:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd Message-ID: Dear All: I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out to my harddrive as iso. So I did this: mount /dev/cdrom dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso The iso file created: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 450560 Feb 13 09:39 /usr/local/cdfile.iso I know my movie is bigger than that. Not sure why it is only such a small file. Did I do something wrong or other there other dd options I need to provide? Just for testing, I used cdrecord to burn the iso back to a CD-R. The medium could not be recognized by any CD-drive.... Any tips much appreciated. --Vincent _________________________________________________________________ Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx From cstevens at gencom.us Fri Feb 13 10:00:03 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076693957.13369.1712.camel@sparticus> 1. Mount CD 2. Make iso of mounted filesystem (mkisofs) Directions here under section 3.1: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/CD-Writing-HOWTO.html#toc4 -Cooper On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 09:55, Vincent Yau wrote: > Dear All: > > I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out > to my harddrive as iso. > > So I did this: > > mount /dev/cdrom > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso > > The iso file created: > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 450560 Feb 13 09:39 > /usr/local/cdfile.iso > > I know my movie is bigger than that. Not sure why it is only such a small > file. > Did I do something wrong or other there other dd options I need to provide? > > Just for testing, I used cdrecord to burn the iso back to a CD-R. The > medium could not be recognized by any CD-drive.... > > Any tips much appreciated. > > --Vincent > > _________________________________________________________________ > Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." > http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 13 10:31:01 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <20040213182816.GC23611@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:53:33AM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > * "Poor security in Windows is a thing of the past." Last week? Last > month? How does he explain the monthly (if not weekly) virus > outbreaks? Of course it is a thing of the past. And the present and future. Between the time Mr. ___ wrote his letter and it was published in Willamette Week yet another high-risk vulnerability was disclosed and Windows administrators were scrambling to apply the patch to remidy the problem. Worse yet, it was disclosed that Microsoft sat on the knowledge of the vulnerability for six months without releasing a patch. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: Work is the curse of the drinking classes. -- Mike Romanoff From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 13 10:48:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise Message-ID: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> Try this: $ echo B | grep [a-z] Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that this wasn't set right really surprised me. -- Bill Spears From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 13 10:52:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out > to my harddrive as iso. > > So I did this: > > mount /dev/cdrom > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso See related thread from a couple of days ago. Then read 'man mkisofs' before reading 'man cdrecord'. dd is a bit-by-bit copy. It does not make an iso file system. CD-rom drives expect an ISO file system on their media. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 13 10:53:01 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:53:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd Message-ID: I have now a even more peculiar problems. There are 2 files on the VCD that I cannot read at all: [root at var0289 local]# mkisofs -o testcd.iso -V disc1 /mnt/cdrom mkisofs: Input/output error. cannot read from '/mnt/cdrom/cdi/cdi_imag.rtf' [root at var0289 local]# cd /mnt/cdrom/cdi/ [root at var0289 cdi]# ls -l total 1399 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 1315168 Sep 29 18:32 cdi_imag.rtf -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 13616 Sep 29 18:32 cdi_text.fnt -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 102400 Sep 29 18:32 cdi_vcd.app -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 193 Sep 29 18:32 cdi_vcd.cfg [root at var0289 cdi]# file cdi_imag.rtf cdi_imag.rtf: file: read failed (Input/output error). The rtf file is one of them. The other is .dat file. Same result. Any reason why this is the case? --Vincent >From: "D. Cooper Stevenson" >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >To: PLUG Mailing List >Subject: Re: [PLUG] using dd >Date: 13 Feb 2004 09:39:17 -0800 > >1. Mount CD > >2. Make iso of mounted filesystem (mkisofs) > >Directions here under section 3.1: > >http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/CD-Writing-HOWTO.html#toc4 > > >-Cooper > >On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 09:55, Vincent Yau wrote: > > Dear All: > > > > I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out > > to my harddrive as iso. > > > > So I did this: > > > > mount /dev/cdrom > > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso > > > > The iso file created: > > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 450560 Feb 13 09:39 > > /usr/local/cdfile.iso > > > > I know my movie is bigger than that. Not sure why it is only such a >small > > file. > > Did I do something wrong or other there other dd options I need to >provide? > > > > Just for testing, I used cdrecord to burn the iso back to a CD-R. The > > medium could not be recognized by any CD-drive.... > > > > Any tips much appreciated. > > > > --Vincent > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." > > http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >-- >-------------------------------------------------------------- >| Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | >| General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | >| "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | >-------------------------------------------------------------- > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _________________________________________________________________ Plan your next US getaway to one of the super destinations here. http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 13 10:54:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076698380.27891.13.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:47, Bill Spears wrote: > Try this: > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > > I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that > this wasn't set right really surprised me. Since I'm not running Fedora... I'm assuming the above line outputted B? FWIW, I got no output running the above line on any of my slackware boxes or my gentoo laptop. Rob From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 13 10:55:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 13 10:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:47:43AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > Try this: > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > > I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that > this wasn't set right really surprised me. um, beg to differ here, but the 'cure' is: $ echo B | grep -i [a-z] It's good to keep upper and lower case distinct. Unless you explicitly want them munged together. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: One reason why George Washington Is held in such veneration: He never blamed his problems On the former Administration. -- George O. Ludcke From chris at maybe.net Fri Feb 13 11:01:01 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> Message-ID: <20040213190039.GM32750@maybe.net> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:54:30AM -0800, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:47:43AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > > Try this: > > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > > > > I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that > > this wasn't set right really surprised me. > > um, beg to differ here, but the 'cure' is: > > $ echo B | grep -i [a-z] > > It's good to keep upper and lower case distinct. Unless you explicitly want > them munged together. Yeah, not at all clear what the desired result he wanted was. Another caveat -- if there are any files called "a", "b", et. al. bash will do glob expansion on [a-z] so you'd better either escape or single-quote. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Fri Feb 13 11:04:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076699033.6186.26.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:50, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > > > I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out > > to my harddrive as iso. > > > > So I did this: > > > > mount /dev/cdrom > > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso > > See related thread from a couple of days ago. Then read 'man mkisofs' > before reading 'man cdrecord'. > Ahhhh You and cooper are wrong here. This *should* have worked perfectly. as Rich said, dd is a "bit copy" which means it will use the file system from the VCD. Now, the question is, is a VCD a iso filesystem? According this it is: http://www.vcdimager.org/documentation.phtml Which begs the question can you just mount it, and pull the mpegs of directly? If so, than something foobared with dd. As a test get a good cdrom, and dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/tmp/test.iso You do have 600Mb of disk space right? > dd is a bit-by-bit copy. It does not make an iso file system. CD-rom > drives expect an ISO file system on their media. > > Rich -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Fri Feb 13 11:08:02 2004 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213182816.GC23611@patch.com> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213182816.GC23611@patch.com> Message-ID: <20040213190728.GA4941@dalsemi.com> SAVOR TIME What should've been an article on the Open Source Development Lab and its mission turned into a Linux soapbox. "The Rebel Alliance" [WW, Jan. 28, 2004] let slip the secret that that Linux is the savior of the digital universe because it doesn't cost Windows' $350 on the desktop or $2000/user for servers. But the security and performance of that free operating system far exceeds any amount of money saved. Linux finds a home where people value freedom, choice and time spent using computers rather than fighting or fearing them. Most people use their computers for business, Web browsing, email and printing pictures in a thought-free environment. As a professional chip designer and amateur Web developer, I look at the profit margin. I've worked on Unix and Linux since 1993. The time I save working with Linux on a day by day basis dramatically justifies the initial investment. Poor security in Windows is a thing of the past, present and future. Windows integrates its software into every level of access to the machine, allowing viruses and security holes to be exploited through a variety of means. Linux's security works independently of its third-party components (e.g., Apache), which is a source of great strength. Worried about the security of a piece of Linux? Turn if off or uninstall it, and Linux keeps on working. Windows will not (not cannot) offer you this control over your own computer. Open source is not limited to Linux. Open-source communities exist for many programming languages and operating systems. Microsoft's developers' network provides complete references and tutorials for their operating system and software--and their seamless integration for a lot of money. Open source software offers all of the same, for free, as well as providing routes where you can pay for support if you want it. However, in over a decade of using Linux I can personally say that I've spent less than a total of $50 for support of Linux. However, there's something to be said for software that comes from paid programmers. That's why companies like AOL supports Mozilla, the open source web browser, and Sun Microsystems supports Open Office, the open source office software, and why IBM has invested more than 1 billion dollars in Linux. With open source, therefore, you can have the best of both worlds. Many Linux users spite Microsoft or like to show off tech skills, and the same is true of any community, there are a few extremists who don't respect your freedom to choose. Colin Kuskie From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Fri Feb 13 11:11:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076699445.6186.28.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:47, Bill Spears wrote: > Try this: > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > This is a grep issue: man grep: Within a bracket expression, a range expression consists of two charac- ters separated by a hyphen. It matches any single character that sorts between the two characters, inclusive, using the locale?s collating sequence and character set. For example, in the default C locale, [a-d] is equivalent to [abcd]. >>>>>>>> Many locales sort characters in dictio- nary order, and in these locales [a-d] is typically not equivalent to [abcd]; it might be equivalent to [aBbCcDd], for example. To obtain the traditional interpretation of bracket expressions, you can use the C locale by setting the LC_ALL environment variable to the value C. > I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that > this wasn't set right really surprised me. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 13 11:17:01 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:17:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd Message-ID: Zot: I did that dd originally as mentioned in my original email and it did not work. My iso was only 40 MB >From: Zot O'Connor >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >To: PLUG LIST >Subject: Re: [PLUG] using dd >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:03:54 -0800 > >On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:50, Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > > > > > I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out > > > to my harddrive as iso. > > > > > > So I did this: > > > > > > mount /dev/cdrom > > > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso > > > > See related thread from a couple of days ago. Then read 'man mkisofs' > > before reading 'man cdrecord'. > > > >Ahhhh > >You and cooper are wrong here. > > >This *should* have worked perfectly. > >as Rich said, dd is a "bit copy" which means it will use the file system >from the VCD. > >Now, the question is, is a VCD a iso filesystem? According this it is: > >http://www.vcdimager.org/documentation.phtml > > >Which begs the question can you just mount it, and pull the mpegs of >directly? > >If so, than something foobared with dd. > >As a test get a good cdrom, and > >dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/tmp/test.iso > >You do have 600Mb of disk space right? > > > > > > dd is a bit-by-bit copy. It does not make an iso file system. CD-rom > > drives expect an ISO file system on their media. > > > > Rich >-- >Zot O'Connor > >http://www.ZotConsulting.com >http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _________________________________________________________________ Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 13 11:34:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076698380.27891.13.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076698380.27891.13.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076700824.9783.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:53, AthlonRob wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:47, Bill Spears wrote: > > Try this: > > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > > > > I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that > > this wasn't set right really surprised me. > > Since I'm not running Fedora... I'm assuming the above line outputted > B? FWIW, I got no output running the above line on any of my slackware > boxes or my gentoo laptop. > > Rob > Correct. Hence my surprise. Perhaps I missed something during the install, but I had no LC_ALL set to anything. I did have > LANG=en_US.UTF-8 > LANGVAR=en_US.UTF-8 > So it picked up something about English. I haven't looked, but I don't remember seeing the recommended class notation [:lower:] used anywhere. I think it is at least bug-like. It certainly could give a nasty surprise. From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 13 11:36:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:36:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> Message-ID: <1076700926.9783.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:54, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:47:43AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > > Try this: > > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > > > > I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that > > this wasn't set right really surprised me. > > um, beg to differ here, but the 'cure' is: > > $ echo B | grep -i [a-z] > > It's good to keep upper and lower case distinct. Unless you explicitly want > them munged together. um doesn't grep -i mean ignore case, ie munge them. If you're using Fedora then you better set LC_ALL=C. -- Bill Spears From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 13 11:37:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <20040213190039.GM32750@maybe.net> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> <20040213190039.GM32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1076700962.9783.15.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 11:00, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:54:30AM -0800, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:47:43AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > > > Try this: > > > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > > > > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > > > > > > I thought my system, Fedora1, was plain Jane vanilla. The fact that > > > this wasn't set right really surprised me. > > > > um, beg to differ here, but the 'cure' is: > > > > $ echo B | grep -i [a-z] > > > > It's good to keep upper and lower case distinct. Unless you explicitly want > > them munged together. > > Yeah, not at all clear what the desired result he wanted was. > > Another caveat -- if there are any files called "a", "b", et. al. bash > will do glob expansion on [a-z] so you'd better either escape or > single-quote. I forgot the quotes. -- Bill Spears From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Fri Feb 13 11:40:03 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076701191.6186.30.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 11:16, Vincent Yau wrote: > Zot: > > I did that dd originally as mentioned in my original email > and it did not work. My iso was only 40 MB I meant on a cdrom you know is good (mountable). It should be 600MBs or so. check df. > > > > > >From: Zot O'Connor > >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > >To: PLUG LIST > >Subject: Re: [PLUG] using dd > >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:03:54 -0800 > > > >On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:50, Rich Shepard wrote: > > > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > > > > > > > I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out > > > > to my harddrive as iso. > > > > > > > > So I did this: > > > > > > > > mount /dev/cdrom > > > > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso > > > > > > See related thread from a couple of days ago. Then read 'man mkisofs' > > > before reading 'man cdrecord'. > > > > > > >Ahhhh > > > >You and cooper are wrong here. > > > > > >This *should* have worked perfectly. > > > >as Rich said, dd is a "bit copy" which means it will use the file system > >from the VCD. > > > >Now, the question is, is a VCD a iso filesystem? According this it is: > > > >http://www.vcdimager.org/documentation.phtml > > > > > >Which begs the question can you just mount it, and pull the mpegs of > >directly? > > > >If so, than something foobared with dd. > > > >As a test get a good cdrom, and > > > >dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/tmp/test.iso > > > >You do have 600Mb of disk space right? > > > > > > > > > > > dd is a bit-by-bit copy. It does not make an iso file system. CD-rom > > > drives expect an ISO file system on their media. > > > > > > Rich > >-- > >Zot O'Connor > > > >http://www.ZotConsulting.com > >http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PLUG mailing list > >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > _________________________________________________________________ > Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN. > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From lamsokvr at xprt.net Fri Feb 13 11:42:01 2004 From: lamsokvr at xprt.net (Guy Noire) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402131943.LAA18516@smtp.gssf.org> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:16:30 +0000 "Vincent Yau" wrote: > >Zot: > >I did that dd originally as mentioned in my original email >and it did not work. My iso was only 40 MB > I use dog to make iso from cd.. dog /dev/cdrom > my.iso or cat for you folks who don't have dog HTH -- Marvin J. Kosmal Linux Activist Registered User # 88512 Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 Livng life 0001 day at a time. From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 13 11:42:12 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 13 11:42:12 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076699445.6186.28.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076699445.6186.28.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <1076701283.9783.21.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 11:10, Zot O'Connor wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:47, Bill Spears wrote: > > Try this: > > $ echo B | grep [a-z] > > > > Cure seems to be LC_ALL=C. > > > > This is a grep issue: > > man grep: > > Within a bracket expression, a range expression consists of two charac- > ters separated by a hyphen. It matches any single character that sorts > between the two characters, inclusive, using the locale?s collating > sequence and character set. For example, in the default C locale, > [a-d] is equivalent to [abcd]. > >>>>>>>> > Many locales sort characters in dictio- > nary order, and in these locales [a-d] is typically not equivalent to > [abcd]; it might be equivalent to [aBbCcDd], for example. To obtain > the traditional interpretation of bracket expressions, you can use the > C locale by setting the LC_ALL environment variable to the value C. My thoughts exactly. I just thought it should have been set. BTW, LC_ALL=C goes in /etc/profile right? Bill Spears From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 13 12:36:01 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 13 12:36:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: <20040213174727.GA23243@patch.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:30:28PM -0700, Matt Alexander wrote: > > Yep... I'm out of inodes... I had a Perl script running that was in fact > > creating a bajillion little files. So is there a way to increase my inode > > stockpile? Or do I need to reformat the partition with more inodes...? > > Thanks, > > Rather than reformatting the drive or switching to ReiserFS how about > changing the Perl to write fewer files that contain all the data? Yeah that's what I ended up doing. It was just easier at the time for the problem I was solving to create lots of little files. I also went through and removed all the files in my working directory that ended up with zero size: find . -empty -type f -exec rm {} \; From techmage at aracnet.com Fri Feb 13 13:09:01 2004 From: techmage at aracnet.com (Prutzer) Date: Fri Feb 13 13:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Question for SUSE users Message-ID: <402d3c13.17796428@mail.aracnet.com> HI all, I'm looking to see if anyone is using SuSe 8 and what their opinion is on it as compared to earlier versions and against other distros. NOT LOOKING FOR: a flame war on distros a blind,one-sided fanaticism a blatant, religious, fanatical dissertation I AM looking for some honest user comments as to how it feels and reacts and such. I'm moving away from Redhat and thought I'd give SuSe a try. thanks, Harry Howard http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0102/phoneoffer.html From pem at nellump.net Fri Feb 13 13:09:11 2004 From: pem at nellump.net (Paul Mulen) Date: Fri Feb 13 13:09:11 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:22:10PM -0800, Galen Seitz wrote: > > There is a letter in this week's edition of Willamette Week which is > critical of Linux, and very much needing a response. I am wrapped It's not so much that it's critical of Linux and Free software, but that the entire content of the letter is classic Microsoft F.U.D., and it reeks of a shill. The author's laughable assertions that security issues are a thing of the past with Windows is the first dead giveaway. I smell an astroturf campaign afoot. That being said, I have better ways to spend my time than taking such bait. I'd rather teach by example, and help another friend make the switch from Windows to Linux. Paul From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 13 13:39:02 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 13 13:39:02 2004 Subject: Reading VCDs (was Re: [PLUG] using dd) In-Reply-To: <1076699033.6186.26.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1076699033.6186.26.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <1076708284.797.16.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 11:03, Zot O'Connor wrote: > Now, the question is, is a VCD a iso filesystem? Depending on the disc: sorta. The VCD format is nominally ISO9660, but there is an diffent "book" mode that is not directly readable via the standard ISO filesystem. The difference is that while mode 1 uses exclusively the standard 2048-byte sectors, mode 2 makes use of the same larger sectors that Red Book audio disks use, at 2352 bytes. From linux-2.4.24/include/linux/cdrom.h: * - audio (red): | audio_sample_bytes | * | 2352 | * - data (yellow, mode1): | sync - head - data - EDC - zero - ECC | * | 12 - 4 - 2048 - 4 - 8 - 276 | As you can see, the difference is that normal data CDs include a third level of error correction beyond the two provided by the physical media. Audio CD's don't use this, and in order for many VCDs to make use of the additional space (this is the difference between the 800MB and 700MB quoted on many CD-R's), they screw with the ISO filesystem by having it point to "sectors" that are 2352 bytes. The Linux filesystem is incapable of dealing with these disks, so you have to write some funky code to deal with them. I did so 3 or so years ago, and the code made its way into GStreamer. You can find it here: http://freedesktop.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gstreamer/gst-plugins/sys/vcd/ The main function of interest is vcdsrc_get(). From llywrch at agora.rdrop.com Fri Feb 13 14:13:02 2004 From: llywrch at agora.rdrop.com (Geoff Burling) Date: Fri Feb 13 14:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Paul Mulen wrote: > On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 09:22:10PM -0800, Galen Seitz wrote: > > > > There is a letter in this week's edition of Willamette Week which is > > critical of Linux, and very much needing a response. I am wrapped > > It's not so much that it's critical of Linux and Free software, but > that the entire content of the letter is classic Microsoft F.U.D., and > it reeks of a shill. The author's laughable assertions that security > issues are a thing of the past with Windows is the first dead giveaway. > I smell an astroturf campaign afoot. That being said, I have better ways > to spend my time than taking such bait. I'd rather teach by example, and > help another friend make the switch from Windows to Linux. > A quick & dirty googling of Steve Schieberl shows (1) he doesn't seem to be in the pay of Microsoft, but (2) he's far from being the biggest geek in Portland; if he's the biggest geek he knows, he must not know one. 29 posts to the mailling list of the "HTML Writer's Guild, one mention that he's a former student of an introductory web design class (apparently he attended some time in 1998 or 1999), & credit for a single web site -- a virtual swap market that is far smaller in scale than Craig's List, let alone eBay. In other words, some lost soul trying to suck up to Gates & Co. in hope it might further his career. As Paul Mulen wrote, "I have better ways to spend my time than taking such bait." Geoff From russj at dimstar.net Fri Feb 13 14:29:02 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 14:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076701283.9783.21.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076699445.6186.28.camel@kat.zotnet.com> <1076701283.9783.21.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <402D4F8B.50902@dimstar.net> Bill Spears wrote: >My thoughts exactly. I just thought it should have been set. >BTW, LC_ALL=C goes in /etc/profile right? > > Not right, wrong or whatever, but here's someone elses thoughts: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/2003-03/msg00025.html Russ From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 13 15:00:03 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 13 15:00:03 2004 Subject: Reading VCDs (was Re: [PLUG] using dd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:53, Vincent Yau wrote: > Thanks for your reply. So does that mean > that using standard cd recording (cdrecord, XCD-Roast, dd etc...) technique > in Linux won't work with VCD cd? Never tried it, but I know there are programs that do it. cdrecord is capable of writing CDs at an even lower level (2352-byte sectors plus the 96-byte P-W checksumming layer), so if you have a program that is capable of constructing an image with 2352-byte sectors you can burn VCDs in this format. However, this is only needed if the contents of the disk exceed what a 2048-byte sector disc can store. Google or freshmeat will probably reveal several programs designed to construct VCD images and handle burning them to a CD. From cstevens at gencom.us Fri Feb 13 15:35:02 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 13 15:35:02 2004 Subject: Reading VCDs (was Re: [PLUG] using dd) In-Reply-To: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> References: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1076714020.13369.2003.camel@sparticus> Right off the cuff, and I'm not checking because no time. 1) We know that the dd thing only records 40 MB's even if not an iso 2) We know that the system bombs on creating the iso Is is possible that there is a scratch about 40 MB's into the disk? That would reconcile what's happening. Do you have another VCD that you can check? -Cooper On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:59, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:53, Vincent Yau wrote: > > Thanks for your reply. So does that mean > > that using standard cd recording (cdrecord, XCD-Roast, dd etc...) technique > > in Linux won't work with VCD cd? > > Never tried it, but I know there are programs that do it. cdrecord is > capable of writing CDs at an even lower level (2352-byte sectors plus > the 96-byte P-W checksumming layer), so if you have a program that is > capable of constructing an image with 2352-byte sectors you can burn > VCDs in this format. However, this is only needed if the contents of > the disk exceed what a 2048-byte sector disc can store. > > Google or freshmeat will probably reveal several programs designed to > construct VCD images and handle burning them to a CD. > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From cstevens at gencom.us Fri Feb 13 15:37:02 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 13 15:37:02 2004 Subject: Reading VCDs (was Re: [PLUG] using dd) In-Reply-To: <1076714020.13369.2003.camel@sparticus> References: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> <1076714020.13369.2003.camel@sparticus> Message-ID: <1076714188.16588.2011.camel@sparticus> While this may be correct, I think Erik Walthinsen is on to something. -Cooper On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 15:13, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Right off the cuff, and I'm not checking because no time. > > 1) We know that the dd thing only records 40 MB's even if not an iso > > 2) We know that the system bombs on creating the iso > > Is is possible that there is a scratch about 40 MB's into the disk? > > That would reconcile what's happening. Do you have another VCD that you > can check? > > > -Cooper > > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:59, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:53, Vincent Yau wrote: > > > Thanks for your reply. So does that mean > > > that using standard cd recording (cdrecord, XCD-Roast, dd etc...) technique > > > in Linux won't work with VCD cd? > > > > Never tried it, but I know there are programs that do it. cdrecord is > > capable of writing CDs at an even lower level (2352-byte sectors plus > > the 96-byte P-W checksumming layer), so if you have a program that is > > capable of constructing an image with 2352-byte sectors you can burn > > VCDs in this format. However, this is only needed if the contents of > > the disk exceed what a 2048-byte sector disc can store. > > > > Google or freshmeat will probably reveal several programs designed to > > construct VCD images and handle burning them to a CD. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From kyle at silverbeach.net Fri Feb 13 15:51:02 2004 From: kyle at silverbeach.net (Kyle Hayes) Date: Fri Feb 13 15:51:02 2004 Subject: Reading VCDs (was Re: [PLUG] using dd) In-Reply-To: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> References: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200402131550.00838.kyle@silverbeach.net> On Friday 13 February 2004 14:59, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:53, Vincent Yau wrote: > > Thanks for your reply. So does that mean > > that using standard cd recording (cdrecord, XCD-Roast, dd etc...) > > technique in Linux won't work with VCD cd? > > Never tried it, but I know there are programs that do it. cdrecord > is capable of writing CDs at an even lower level (2352-byte sectors > plus the 96-byte P-W checksumming layer), so if you have a program > that is capable of constructing an image with 2352-byte sectors you > can burn VCDs in this format. However, this is only needed if the > contents of the disk exceed what a 2048-byte sector disc can store. > > Google or freshmeat will probably reveal several programs designed > to construct VCD images and handle burning them to a CD. Hmm, this reminds me of something I had happen a long time ago. I didn't think much of it at the time, but this sounds like the same thing. I had a data CD that I used dd to dump on a Solaris box. I got a file that was a valid ISO image. I did the same thing on a Linux box (2.2 days) and got a steaming pile of bits that had little relation to an ISO image. I never did figure out what the problem was. Instead I mounted the CD, copied the files and made my own image. I remember that the file dropped by dd on Linux was not the same size as the file Solaris created, but I don't remember if it was smaller or larger. It wasn't much different (i.e. not 40MB vs. 640), but it was different. Could that have been a related problem? Back in the 2.2 days, Linux had problems with sector sizes other than 512 bytes or multiples thereof. Best, Kyle From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 13 15:56:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 13 15:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <402D4F8B.50902@dimstar.net> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076699445.6186.28.camel@kat.zotnet.com> <1076701283.9783.21.camel@apollo.spears.org> <402D4F8B.50902@dimstar.net> Message-ID: <1076716553.9783.23.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:28, Russ Johnson wrote: > Bill Spears wrote: > > >My thoughts exactly. I just thought it should have been set. > >BTW, LC_ALL=C goes in /etc/profile right? > > > > > Not right, wrong or whatever, but here's someone elses thoughts: > > http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/2003-03/msg00025.html > > Russ > That was interesting. But for a single user whose only other language is profanity.... -- Bill Spears From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 13 16:04:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 13 16:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd In-Reply-To: <1076699033.6186.26.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1076699033.6186.26.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <1076717004.9783.28.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 11:03, Zot O'Connor wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:50, Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vincent Yau wrote: > > > > > I have a bunch of VCD format movies in CD that I want to dd out > > > to my harddrive as iso. > > > > > > So I did this: > > > > > > mount /dev/cdrom > > > dd if=/dev/cdrom of=/usr/local/cdfile.iso > > > > See related thread from a couple of days ago. Then read 'man mkisofs' > > before reading 'man cdrecord'. > > > > Ahhhh > > You and cooper are wrong here. > > > This *should* have worked perfectly. > > as Rich said, dd is a "bit copy" which means it will use the file system > from the VCD. > Not completely true. In the recent past, I had similar trouble. I had burned some .iso's but I couldn't dd them back to the disk. What I found was that if burned with the DAO option dd worked if not it wouldn't quite copy the whole iso. (When mounted the cdrom file system was correct!) -- Bill Spears From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Fri Feb 13 16:17:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 13 16:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Locking the sytem with usb headset and alsa In-Reply-To: <1076691240.6186.9.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1076691240.6186.9.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <1076717767.22529.81.camel@kat.zotnet.com> So I upgraded to the latest alsa and the issues went away.... On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 08:54, Zot O'Connor wrote: > So I bought a labtec 711 usb headset (LVA-8711). > > I can lock the system repeatedly..... > > > Method: > > Reboot > Log into X > Plug in Headset > run kphone (3.14, http://www.wirlab.net/kphone/ built with checkinstall) > Ensure it is pointing at /dev/dsp1 > Connect to asterisk server on local net. > Listen to the popping sound. Think about further testing. > Watch call get disconnected. > See Kphone start to blank window. > Wonder why it stopped. > Notice the mouse stopped working (not too unusual with Sond apps as they > sometimes slow things down). > Notice the blinking caps lock and scroll lock. > Wonder if I was running windows. > > OS: RH9, stock updated kernel: 2.4.20-28.9 > Sound: Alsa, built from fresh rpms src rpm: kernel-module-alsa-0.9.8-1.fr_2.4.20_28.9 > > > This system almost never locks up otherwise. It is my workstation and > gets lots of abuse. > > Any ideas before I pound on the alsa lists? > > Thanks! -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Fri Feb 13 16:18:01 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 13 16:18:01 2004 Subject: Reading VCDs (was Re: [PLUG] using dd) In-Reply-To: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> References: <1076713196.797.51.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1076717878.22529.86.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:59, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:53, Vincent Yau wrote: > Google or freshmeat will probably reveal several programs designed to > construct VCD images and handle burning them to a CD. www.vcdimager.orf www.vcdhelp.com > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 16:47:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 16:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> Message-ID: <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 05:58:46AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Today's Oregonian reports that someone tripped over a fiberoptic cable > west of downtown Portland and broke it. Isn't fiber normally buried? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALW/bUzgNqloQMwcRAq2LAKCwUfIVNbxlWnlk62PVd8lfmi0HWwCcChyR QUrFa9Xkj3jSzWtJk4RrL+o= =WAZY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 13 16:49:01 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 13 16:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076719738.808.53.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 16:46, Paul Johnson wrote: > > Today's Oregonian reports that someone tripped over a fiberoptic cable > > west of downtown Portland and broke it. > Isn't fiber normally buried? Didn't you hear? Backhoes are now officially considered "someone". From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 13 17:08:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 13 17:08:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > Isn't fiber normally buried? Yup. It was probably someone digging a hole. Just imagine the time to put all those little fibers back together again so they match properly! Whew! And, the workers had to be sure they didn't get glue on the faces or other fibers. Microtechnology at work. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 17:17:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 17:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <1076719738.808.53.camel@localhost> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> <1076719738.808.53.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040214011610.GI11067@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 04:48:59PM -0800, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 16:46, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > Today's Oregonian reports that someone tripped over a fiberoptic cable > > > west of downtown Portland and broke it. > > Isn't fiber normally buried? > > Didn't you hear? Backhoes are now officially considered "someone". Sort of how like newspapers mis-report that a vehicle was at fault, when it was the idiot driver at the helm. Rush would be worth the wasted bandwidth in the electromagnetic spectrum if he did nothing but the SUV Update, and didn't limit it to SUVs. Sort of a wreckedexotics.com for the radio. And if anybody wonders why I was listening to Rush, it's because by last November, I had heard pretty much everything FM had to offer. KOPB *really* needs to put Performance Today on in the middle of the night when nobody cares and put the BBC World Service on after Morning Edition...there's just nothing really good on at 9-12 other than Clark Howard, and I'm not a huge fan of call-in talk radio. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALXbaUzgNqloQMwcRAn5tAJ4ovqA9Cefx5FJCNkXp87gffzlfvgCgi9/B hdlXViV/FMbTno0XBayIm5o= =Mori -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From raanders at acm.org Fri Feb 13 17:26:02 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Fri Feb 13 17:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mozilla Mail IMAP settings Message-ID: I've been having a great time playing with Mozilla Mail as an IMAP client. Since I'm forced to use a Windows system for my desktop at work I hesitate to fiddle with Evolution. So here I am trying to get all my systems acting the same and trying to recover for using the Web Interface our mail server software provides and find I'm at a stand still. I have a folder showing on one system that does not exist on the server and can't get rid of it. I keep getting an 'Operation not Permitted' error when I try to delete it from the IMAP client system. I went looking for the information through the file system but failed to find anything that looked even close to what I needed. I wanted to try a sledge hammer method to remove the folder. Beside the source code is there anywhere else I can look for where this is kept? TIA, Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From dzl at frenetic.com Fri Feb 13 18:13:02 2004 From: dzl at frenetic.com (Daniel Logghe) Date: Fri Feb 13 18:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] using dd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402D841B.7050103@frenetic.com> Vincent Yau wrote: > Any tips much appreciated. I would suggest using vcdxrip, part of the vcdimager package . VCDs are a unique sort of beast. I believe it is an ISO9660 filesystem, but it's on two seperate tracks, which may be why you're only getting 40 megs or so, dd might only be ripping the first track. vcdxrip will pull out all the data you need, including all the meta information, and leave you with a straight mpeg. You can then repackage it as a vcd image again with vcdxbuild if you want to burn a copy, but unless your goal is simply to copy the cd you'll probably want to extract it out anyway. From lamsokvr at xprt.net Fri Feb 13 18:19:02 2004 From: lamsokvr at xprt.net (Guy Noire) Date: Fri Feb 13 18:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076700926.9783.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> <1076700926.9783.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <200402140220.SAA32283@smtp.gssf.org> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:35:26 -0800 Bill Spears wrote: >> them munged together. >um doesn't grep -i mean ignore case, ie munge them. If you're using >Fedora then you better set LC_ALL=C. >-- Where does this get set??? -- Marvin J. Kosmal Linux Activist Registered User # 88512 Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 Livng life 0001 day at a time. From drl at drloree.com Fri Feb 13 19:19:01 2004 From: drl at drloree.com (Derek Loree) Date: Fri Feb 13 19:19:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Odd disk space error In-Reply-To: <86smhgstbn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <1076563956.8548.168.camel@dell.linux.box> <86smhgstbn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <1076728896.3049.2.camel@fastlinux.homenet> On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 22:30, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "AthlonRob" == AthlonRob writes: > > Matt> Yep... I'm out of inodes... I had a Perl script running that > Matt> was in fact creating a bajillion little files. So is there a > Matt> way to increase my inode stockpile? Or do I need to reformat > Matt> the partition with more inodes...? > > AthlonRob> tar up the itty bitty files? > > AthlonRob> It isn't that you'd need to reformat with more inodes, > AthlonRob> really... you'd need to reformat with *smaller* inodes > AthlonRob> (hence making more). > > AthlonRob> I'd tar up the itty bitty files, though... maybe in a > AthlonRob> RAMdisk if you can't spare the inodes to do it. :-) > > If you are going to create a new filesystem and you want to keep all > those itty bitty files, you might also consider a filesystem that > doesn't limit inodes, e.g. reiserfs. I think you should be able to create a loop-back file system with reiserfs, leaving the original file system alone, and being able to mount some thing that will take in all those little files. Good Luck, Derek Loree From computers at chrisking.com Fri Feb 13 21:12:02 2004 From: computers at chrisking.com (Alan Olsen) Date: Fri Feb 13 21:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Label printers for Linux Message-ID: <631277D8-5E6D-11D8-A464-000393D1EBA6@chrisking.com> I need a label printer that uses ribbons (wax or resin), does around 100-200 dpi, and uses open source drivers. (Or at least will work with cups.) Low cost per label is an added plus. Suggestions? From chris at maybe.net Fri Feb 13 21:31:01 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Fri Feb 13 21:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis Message-ID: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> Help! There's three different amavis's out there! Debian seems to suggest that only amavis-ng and amavisd-new are "current". With my qmail setup I can do pre-smtp exec chaining and I can do mid-smtp queue filtering (pseudo-milter, if you will, uses a text pipeline). Anybody have any guidance? Thanks -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 13 21:37:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 13 21:37:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis In-Reply-To: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> References: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 21:30, Chris Jantzen wrote: > Help! There's three different amavis's out there! Debian seems to > suggest that only amavis-ng and amavisd-new are "current". With my > qmail setup I can do pre-smtp exec chaining and I can do mid-smtp > queue filtering (pseudo-milter, if you will, uses a text > pipeline). Anybody have any guidance? Thanks amavisd-new is my choice. I dunno about using it with Qmail. Here's a draft of a paper I've written about using it with Postfix; it might give you insight into using it with Qmail. http://nakedape.cc/products/packages/maildefender/paper Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Tired of spam and viruses in your e-mail? * * Get the Naked Ape Mail Defender! http://nakedape.cc/r/md * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chris at maybe.net Fri Feb 13 21:42:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Fri Feb 13 21:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis In-Reply-To: <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <20040214054135.GP32750@maybe.net> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:36:43PM -0800, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 21:30, Chris Jantzen wrote: > > Help! There's three different amavis's out there! Debian seems to > > suggest that only amavis-ng and amavisd-new are "current". With my > > qmail setup I can do pre-smtp exec chaining and I can do mid-smtp > > queue filtering (pseudo-milter, if you will, uses a text > > pipeline). Anybody have any guidance? Thanks > > amavisd-new is my choice. I dunno about using it with Qmail. Here's a > draft of a paper I've written about using it with Postfix; it might give > you insight into using it with Qmail. > > http://nakedape.cc/products/packages/maildefender/paper Ah, okay. That helps make the absolutely horrid amavisd-new/qmail "howto". Looks like they were setting up an "intranet smtp" for amavisd to proxy to or some similar bizarre thing. I think I'll focus on amavis-ng, then. Thanks for the clear and concise description of how amavisd-new works! -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 13 22:04:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 13 22:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis In-Reply-To: <20040214054135.GP32750@maybe.net> References: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <20040214054135.GP32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1076738590.9584.71.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 21:41, Chris Jantzen wrote: > Ah, okay. That helps make the absolutely horrid amavisd-new/qmail > "howto". Looks like they were setting up an "intranet smtp" for > amavisd to proxy to or some similar bizarre thing. I think I'll focus > on amavis-ng, then. > > Thanks for the clear and concise description of how amavisd-new works! amavisd-new and -ng work pretty much the same, either as an internal proxy or Milter. The main difference is whether you want SpamAssassin or not (and even if you don't, -new can turn it off). -new sees a good deal more development and activity from what I can tell; take a look over the amavis-users mailing list. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * * * Linux Consulting in Portland, Oregon * * * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 22:34:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 22:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis In-Reply-To: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> References: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> Message-ID: <20040214063348.GB4998@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:30:41PM -0800, Chris Jantzen wrote: > Help! There's three different amavis's out there! Debian seems to > suggest that only amavis-ng and amavisd-new are "current". With my > qmail setup I can do pre-smtp exec chaining and I can do mid-smtp > queue filtering (pseudo-milter, if you will, uses a text > pipeline). Anybody have any guidance? Thanks Yeah, go check out http://ursine.ca/~baloo/ and click on "superior solution." It doesn't use amavis, but it does use clamav with exim to reject virus infected emails at SMTP-time. Trust me, your sanity will improve moving away from qmail, what with not having 14 bajillion meaningless files and bizarre licensing that makes you wonder just what in the hell DJB is smoking and where one can get some. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALcFMUzgNqloQMwcRAgHGAJ0TSUxCR32BY5RfQp3hmczBKL7+qACZAeJ1 UOz+UrFdESv7sFCSW5xGypw= =2a/j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 13 22:36:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 13 22:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis In-Reply-To: <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <20040214063520.GC4998@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 09:36:43PM -0800, Wil Cooley wrote: > amavisd-new is my choice. I dunno about using it with Qmail. Here's a > draft of a paper I've written about using it with Postfix; it might give > you insight into using it with Qmail. You might want to go email that to debian-user at lists.debian.org with a good writeup, debian-user allows nonsubscribers to post and I know this has come up over there. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALcGoUzgNqloQMwcRAk8ZAJ41KVX3vlESy1JO0vQgYTyOYRmGAACeLDfN gDlbPawFEei5xP/qZoZMMbo= =GmoJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chris at maybe.net Fri Feb 13 22:44:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Fri Feb 13 22:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis In-Reply-To: <20040214063348.GB4998@ursine.ca> References: <20040214053041.GN32750@maybe.net> <20040214063348.GB4998@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040214064348.GQ32750@maybe.net> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:33:48PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > Trust me, your sanity will improve moving away from qmail, what with > not having 14 bajillion meaningless files and bizarre licensing that > makes you wonder just what in the hell DJB is smoking and where one > can get some. I've been coding my own qmail features for a couple years now. I have a very nice build system, and I enjoy the source code and software style. Thank you very much. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jrosenbaum at ffadesign.com Fri Feb 13 23:17:02 2004 From: jrosenbaum at ffadesign.com (josh rosenbaum) Date: Fri Feb 13 23:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] KDE login error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c3f2ca$697c8670$6401a8c0@Godzilla88> Anyone know how to fix this error? I tried to look it up on google and got 1 fix that didn't work. When I log into KDE I get the following error: "There was an error setting up interprocess communication in KDE. The message returned by the system was: could not read network connection list. /root/dcopserver_dlen 192.168.1.1:0 please check that "dcopserver" program is running" Its because of the DNS entries I messed up isn't it? Is this a recoverable error or am I hosed? Thanks in advance for any help! -Josh Rosenbaum From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 14 00:00:03 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 14 00:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] KDE login error In-Reply-To: <000e01c3f2ca$697c8670$6401a8c0@Godzilla88> References: <000e01c3f2ca$697c8670$6401a8c0@Godzilla88> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, josh rosenbaum wrote: > Anyone know how to fix this error? I tried to look it up on google and > got 1 fix that didn't work. > > > When I log into KDE I get the following error: > "There was an error setting up interprocess communication in KDE. The > message returned by the system was: > could not read network connection list. /root/dcopserver_dlen 192.168.1.1:0 > please check that "dcopserver" program is running" > > Its because of the DNS entries I messed up isn't it? Is this a > recoverable error or am I hosed? You're never hosed. Well, almost never. What's /etc/hosts look like? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From russell-evans at qwest.net Sat Feb 14 01:22:02 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sat Feb 14 01:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Question for SUSE users In-Reply-To: <402d3c13.17796428@mail.aracnet.com> References: <402d3c13.17796428@mail.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20040214012116.75f1e885@downtown> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:09:31 GMT "Prutzer" wrote: > HI all, > I'm looking to see if anyone is using SuSe 8 and what their opinion is > on it as compared to earlier versions and against other distros. > NOT LOOKING FOR: > a flame war on distros > a blind,one-sided fanaticism > a blatant, religious, fanatical dissertation > > I AM looking for some honest user comments as to how it feels and > reacts and such. > > I'm moving away from Redhat and thought I'd give SuSe a try. SuSE has been my distribution of choice for a while. I would say 8.0 is one of my least liked reversions. 8.0 is when SuSE made the jump to yast2and being a long time yast user it wasn't in my opinion ready. The current SuSE is 9.0 and yast2 is now pretty good. The default install is pretty easy to doon most hardware. If you come up against a wall the install is flexible enough where you can probably install around the issue. The documentation that comes with the distribution is pretty good. I would recommend buying a boxed set just to get the documentation for someone new to SuSE. I've heard complaints about SuSe not being intuitive from users that didn't read the two books included in the box set. I never read through the books, but dog eared them going back time and time again I probably read 90% of the books, but just not front to back. As much as i like SuSE I have to admit it is a personal choice, and I first started with SuSE because the 5 CDs pretty much meant I wouldn't have to keep downloading over a 26000 baud connection as I climbed the learning curve.. This was way before I knew about debian and I don't know dedian history to know if it was around in 96. Over the years I have resisted debian because it always seemed the most annoying Linux users where debian users. I just never wanted to be associated with debian because of this, no matter how"good" it was. Stay with me, I'm getting to my point and don't mean this to be a flame; as much as I like SuSE, and I really do like SuSE, if I was going to invest in learning the ins and outs of a new distribution, I would start with debain before, or if, SuSE at all. I'm thinking that SuSE is in for change, and what was the past is not an indication of the future with Novel. dedian will probably be the better long term solution for users and probably for "smart" businesses as well. It is sad that the mainstreaming of Linux means less and less thought will be given to users and more and more thought will be about making products for businesses. It is sad because, at some time in the future, there will be more users outside of the Linux community than in. Linux will be a vendor, not someone you have beer with, talked to at the last LUG meeting, or flamed on the mailing list. It will be some loud, big smile, lunch buying, promise you anything, vendor that the new geeks associate with Linux. I think debian will be the last Linux user community. It exists because of its community structure. When that community dies, Linux will be dead. The last Linux flame will probably be on a debian mailing list. Thank you Russell From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 14 07:19:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 14 07:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Label printers for Linux In-Reply-To: <631277D8-5E6D-11D8-A464-000393D1EBA6@chrisking.com> References: <631277D8-5E6D-11D8-A464-000393D1EBA6@chrisking.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Alan Olsen wrote: > I need a label printer that uses ribbons (wax or resin), does around > 100-200 dpi, and uses open source drivers. (Or at least will work with > cups.) Low cost per label is an added plus. > > Suggestions? See if anything here is useful: Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From plug at Blain.org Sat Feb 14 08:17:02 2004 From: plug at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Sat Feb 14 08:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem Message-ID: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> I have a Debian testing box that I have Apache on. It has worked fine for months until a recent upgrade. I can't figure out for the life of me what happened, nor how to fix it. I have plowed the config with dpkg to start all over, but still no joy. Below is the output of errors. mesa:/home/jelque# /usr/sbin/apachectl start [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module config_log_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module mime_magic_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module mime_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module negotiation_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module status_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module autoindex_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module dir_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module cgi_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module imap_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module userdir_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module alias_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module rewrite_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module access_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module auth_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module proxy_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module expires_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module unique_id_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module setenvif_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module fastcgi_module is already loaded, skipping [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module php4_module is already loaded, skipping Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not included in the server configuration /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. # # Controls who can get stuff from this server. # Order allow,deny Allow from all Jeff From bspears at easystreet.com Sat Feb 14 08:27:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sat Feb 14 08:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <200402140220.SAA32283@smtp.gssf.org> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> <1076700926.9783.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <200402140220.SAA32283@smtp.gssf.org> Message-ID: <1076775989.9783.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 18:17, Guy Noire wrote: > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:35:26 -0800 > Bill Spears wrote: > > > >> them munged together. > >um doesn't grep -i mean ignore case, ie munge them. If you're using > >Fedora then you better set LC_ALL=C. > >-- > > Where does this get set??? > Apparently on Fedora, it doesn't. Lacking guidance from any Linux Gurus, I put it in /etc/profile. Russ pointed out this interesting article: http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/2003-03/msg00025.html -- Bill Spears From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Sat Feb 14 09:35:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Sat Feb 14 09:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> Message-ID: <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > included in the server configuration > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > # > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > # > Order allow,deny > Allow from all > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From keith at ahapala.net Sat Feb 14 09:42:02 2004 From: keith at ahapala.net (Keith Nasman) Date: Sat Feb 14 09:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040214174759.GA23603@ahapala.net> On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 09:35:01AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > > > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > > included in the server configuration > > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > > > # > > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > > # > > Order allow,deny > > Allow from all > > > > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure > that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been > re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? > I think apache is interpreting "Order allow,deny" as a tag. Make sure there is a above it. Keith From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Sat Feb 14 10:04:02 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Sat Feb 14 10:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Yum problematic In-Reply-To: <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> I've been using Yum to keep my work and home systems updated, and in the last week or so, it has been very slow and tends to hand. Are others experiencing this as well? -Scott __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dan_young at parkrose.k12.or.us Sat Feb 14 10:07:02 2004 From: dan_young at parkrose.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Sat Feb 14 10:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Yum problematic In-Reply-To: <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65175.24.20.16.226.1076782110.squirrel@webmail.parkrose.k12.or.us> Scott Van Hoosen said: > I've been using Yum to keep my work and home systems updated, and in > the last week or so, it has been very slow and tends to hand. Are > others experiencing this as well? What repositories are you using? -Dan Young -Parkrose School District From plug at Blain.org Sat Feb 14 10:16:02 2004 From: plug at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Sat Feb 14 10:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <1076782679.14747.18.camel@dizzy.blain.org> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:35, Mike De La Mater wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > > > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > > included in the server configuration > > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > > > # > > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > > # > > Order allow,deny > > Allow from all > > > > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure > that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been > re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? The "oh" in Order is correct. I actually changed it to "o" and "0" then back again just to make sure. The access module is there and I guess intact. mesa:/etc/apache# ls -l /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_access.so -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7464 Dec 17 09:02 /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_access.so Jeff From plug at Blain.org Sat Feb 14 10:16:13 2004 From: plug at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Sat Feb 14 10:16:13 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <20040214174759.GA23603@ahapala.net> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040214174759.GA23603@ahapala.net> Message-ID: <1076782663.14747.16.camel@dizzy.blain.org> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:47, Keith Nasman wrote: > On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 09:35:01AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > > > > > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > > > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > > > included in the server configuration > > > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > > > > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > > > > > # > > > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > > > # > > > Order allow,deny > > > Allow from all > > > > > > > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure > > that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been > > re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? > > > > I think apache is interpreting "Order allow,deny" as a tag. Make sure > there is a above it. That is actually one of the first things I tried, but got different errors like... Invalid command '' Upon looking at other apache configs, they are all like what is listed above. Jeff From griffint at pobox.com Sat Feb 14 11:04:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Yum problematic In-Reply-To: <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200402141103.41101.griffint@pobox.com> On Saturday 14 February 2004 10:02 am, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > I've been using Yum to keep my work and home systems updated, and in > the last week or so, it has been very slow and tends to hand. Are > others experiencing this as well? > > -Scott > Try some simple rpm operation just to make sure your rpm database isn't hosed with a stale lock or something. A good test is: rpm -qa If that hangs then you have an rpm problem. Otherwise its a yum problem. Terry From cstevens at gencom.us Sat Feb 14 11:21:02 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (Cooper Stevenson) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? Message-ID: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? Thanks, guys. -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sat Feb 14 11:24:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:24:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: <1076786580.27889.59.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:19, Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? Yes, I am pretty sure it is. T1s are what... 64 wires? They can split those up between data and voice. Rob From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 14 11:34:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? Yes. You can get your 24 channels of DS0 bundled almost any way you choose these days. The telco has to support the service, though, as it requires peculiar end equipment both for them and on the customer premises. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 14 11:38:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <1076782663.14747.16.camel@dizzy.blain.org> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040214174759.GA23603@ahapala.net> <1076782663.14747.16.camel@dizzy.blain.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Jeff Blain wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:47, Keith Nasman wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 09:35:01AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > > > > > > > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > > > > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > > > > included in the server configuration > > > > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > > > > > > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > > > > > > > # > > > > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > > > > # > > > > Order allow,deny > > > > Allow from all > > > > > > > > > > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure > > > that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been > > > re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? > > > > > > > I think apache is interpreting "Order allow,deny" as a tag. Make sure > > there is a above it. > > That is actually one of the first things I tried, but got different > errors like... Invalid command '' Upon looking at other > apache configs, they are all like what is listed above. Um, no. That's not how apache configs work. Global commands can go outside of directives, but "Order" is not a global command. It MUST be contained within a directive... in this case, enclosed within (where "foo" is some directory on which you'd like the commands to apply). Scroll backward from this point in your httpd.conf and see where the next opening directive is hiding. If it's a closed directive , then you need to open your Directory directive and specify the location to which it applies. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From linux at chrisroberts.org Sat Feb 14 11:59:02 2004 From: linux at chrisroberts.org (chris) Date: Sat Feb 14 11:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: <200402141206.29732.linux@chrisroberts.org> Yeah, as others have said it is possible. It is what we have at my office. We use integra for everything at my work. http://www.integraonline.com I'm not sure about any others in the portland metro area that do both, but everything I have done with integra has been smooth and their support is good. chris On Saturday 14 February 2004 11:19 am, Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? > > > Thanks, guys. From russj at dimstar.net Sat Feb 14 12:02:02 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <1076786580.27889.59.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> <1076786580.27889.59.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <402E7EB2.3040004@dimstar.net> AthlonRob wrote: >Yes, I am pretty sure it is. T1s are what... 64 wires? They can split >those up between data and voice. > Actually, a T1 is 4 wires containing 24 channels. I know that qworst can segment the channels to have data and/or voice on any or all channels. 4 wires (two pair, unloaded) because you have a pair for receiving, and a pair for transmitting. Russ From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Sat Feb 14 12:06:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: <1076789144.24404.32.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:33, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Cooper Stevenson wrote: > > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? > > Yes. > > You can get your 24 channels of DS0 bundled almost any way you choose > these days. This is accurate. ELI figured out it can sell in the pure margins after 10 phone lines pure T1. i.e. They make money at 10 lines, so sell something for the other 14. The something could be Login Distance trunking, tie-ins to other offices, or IP traffic. The prices are real cheap at that point. > > The telco has to support the service, though, as it requires peculiar end ^^^^^^^^ I would not call it "peculiar" it is specific in that it must be able to break the T1 into two different channels. There are dozens of options. > equipment both for them and on the customer premises. > > J. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From russell-evans at qwest.net Sat Feb 14 12:15:03 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 In-Reply-To: <200402131750.i1DHouio007954@barrierb241.nike.com> References: <200402131750.i1DHouio007954@barrierb241.nike.com> Message-ID: <20040214121501.5582e029@downtown> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:50:42 -0800 "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > Yes. The e1000 works with just about anything else. I can connect this > linux box to my linksys router and it works fine. I can even use it > with the WET11 if I connect them both to a hub. It only fails to work > when connected directly to the WET11. I am going to try a different > NIC this weekend. That should make it work, but the mystery remains. If it works with a hub and you've confirmed you have set the speed and duplex, then it might be flow control FlowControl Valid Range: 0-3 (0=none, 1=Rx only, 2=Tx only, 3=Rx&Tx) Default: Read flow control settings from the EEPROM This parameter controls the automatic generation(Tx) and response(Rx) to Ethernet PAUSE frames. I would also try the AutoNeg setting instead of setting both Speed and Deplex. Setting it to 3 will mean it will auto-negotiation up to 100 full duplex but not the 1000 full. You might want to try the latest driver as well. Thank you Russell From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 14 12:27:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> Message-ID: <20040214202604.GC31925@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 08:31:37AM -0800, Keith Nasman wrote: > I think this is what Galen is refering to: > > http://willametteweek.com/story.php?story=4813 > > Third letter down. Wow...you're right, that letter really is intelligence-free. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALoRcUzgNqloQMwcRAr/1AKDCTUSy0XjeBjWMaJ6uTlOhacBc3ACeMaa+ smZUWCTgBaTtli6bcm7iIA8= =0Z8h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From plug at Blain.org Sat Feb 14 12:29:02 2004 From: plug at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040214174759.GA23603@ahapala.net> <1076782663.14747.16.camel@dizzy.blain.org> Message-ID: <1076790660.14747.28.camel@dizzy.blain.org> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 13:37, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Jeff Blain wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:47, Keith Nasman wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 09:35:01AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > > > > > > > > > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > > > > > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > > > > > included in the server configuration > > > > > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > > > > > > > > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > > > > > > > > > # > > > > > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > > > > > # > > > > > Order allow,deny > > > > > Allow from all > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure > > > > that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been > > > > re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? > > > > > > > > > > I think apache is interpreting "Order allow,deny" as a tag. Make sure > > > there is a above it. > > > > That is actually one of the first things I tried, but got different > > errors like... Invalid command '' Upon looking at other > > apache configs, they are all like what is listed above. > > Um, no. That's not how apache configs work. > > Global commands can go outside of directives, but "Order" is not a global > command. It MUST be contained within a directive... in this case, > enclosed within (where "foo" is some > directory on which you'd like the commands to apply). > > Scroll backward from this point in your httpd.conf and see where the next > opening directive is hiding. If it's a closed directive , > then you need to open your Directory directive and specify the location to > which it applies. Ok, I understand now. I wasn't looking far enough back. It's all there. I guess I was expecting the whole directive to be together, instead of spread out with comments slapped in between. Options Indexes Includes FollowSymLinks MultiViews AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all From russell-evans at qwest.net Sat Feb 14 12:35:03 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fw: RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem In-Reply-To: <1076691494.27884.2.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <15758874.1076658571568.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <1076691494.27884.2.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040214123453.7900e0de@downtown> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:58:14 -0800 "AthlonRob" wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-12 at 23:49, Dan Beale wrote: > > > default 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 > > 0 eth0 > > Is that the IP address of the router thingy you can ping? > > If so, good. If not, bad. > > Now, we've established at least that DNS does not work. What about > just plain getting out? > > Can you ping my UML's IP of 65.19.161.203? If so, you just need to > set up DNS. If not, then things are more messed up than that. > Well this is mostly true. If you are not getting a default route with your DHCP lease, then if your name server is not local, it could appear to be a DNS issue when it is in fact, a routing issue. It always helps to trouble shoot from the bottom up. Simplified: wires, MACs, routing, and then the applications. DNS is an application. Thank you Russell From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 14 12:35:14 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:35:14 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> Message-ID: <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 02:02:54PM -0800, Geoff Burling wrote: > A quick & dirty googling of Steve Schieberl shows (1) he doesn't seem to > be in the pay of Microsoft, but (2) he's far from being the biggest geek > in Portland; if he's the biggest geek he knows, he must not know one. > 29 posts to the mailling list of the "HTML Writer's Guild, one mention > that he's a former student of an introductory web design class > (apparently he attended some time in 1998 or 1999), & credit for a > single web site -- a virtual swap market that is far smaller in scale than > Craig's List, let alone eBay. Why not include that in a letter to WW's editors? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALoZiUzgNqloQMwcRAsslAJ9QX84veCaQOBjRfEHLtpV8Oryl7gCg0Hkm gnxQPjXPRfm013dA2yheOuE= =X3xb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 14 12:36:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Yum problematic In-Reply-To: <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <1076737003.9584.68.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040214203543.GE31925@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 10:02:47AM -0800, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > I've been using Yum to keep my work and home systems updated, and in > the last week or so, it has been very slow and tends to hand. Are > others experiencing this as well? No, but we do seem to be experiencing a Scott Van Hoosen hijacking threads about amavis. Here's a hint: If you're making a new thread, the right way to do it is NOT REPLY. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALoafUzgNqloQMwcRAnPHAJ92Zm870CP+6vkUQt3kmHRxOwKNNACfRgfd JTHE46FoEd01iBJ+qP2CHIQ= =Cn2X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sat Feb 14 12:40:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:40:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fw: RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem In-Reply-To: <20040214123453.7900e0de@downtown> References: <15758874.1076658571568.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <1076691494.27884.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040214123453.7900e0de@downtown> Message-ID: <1076791139.27889.63.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 12:34, Russell Evans wrote: > It always helps to trouble shoot from the bottom up. Simplified: wires, > MACs, routing, and then the applications. DNS is an application. If you look closely at the email I sent... we established connectivity to the router itself, so the next step was establishing connectivity with the rest of the Internet... routing. :-) If the ping went through to an IP on the Internet, then it would appear routing was working. If a ping did not go through to an IP on the Internet, then routing is not working. If routing was working, then it would appear to be a DNS issue we were facing. In my experience, people usually use a web browser or ping a domain name to test Internet connectivity... so if DNS is down, they think they can't get out at all. Rob From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sat Feb 14 12:41:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sat Feb 14 12:41:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 12:34, Paul Johnson wrote: > Why not include that in a letter to WW's editors? In such matters, it always seems childish to me when you start debating the individuals making arguments rather than the arguments themselves. Even if he started it first. Rob From russell-evans at qwest.net Sat Feb 14 13:03:02 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sat Feb 14 13:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040214130300.4e2ddcef@downtown> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:46:20 -0800 "Paul Johnson" wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 05:58:46AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Today's Oregonian reports that someone tripped over a fiberoptic > > cable > > west of downtown Portland and broke it. > > Isn't fiber normally buried? Only when required by law. It costs about $70 a foot to bury cable in the Portland metro area. It costs about $10~30 a foot to do aerial attachments. One of the best aerial fiber examples is the fiber that is run in armor at the tops of high voltage transmission lines. If you want to look for fiber on a pole around town, look for the horse shoes. Single mode fiber has a minimum bend radius, to put loops in the aerial cable, you need this if you have a fiber break so you can just let the loop out for the repair, you have to control the bend in the fiber as the cable loops back on itself. This means that horse shoes will be installed The horse shoes are about a foot wide and two feet long usually with a crossbar for attachment and mechanical support, in the middle of the loop. Think old style snow shoe / tennis rack / horse shoe.. Underground fiber cables also have loops, but these are stored in vaults under the streets, think a six foot deep by four foot by four foot wide concrete box with a manhole at the top.. At one point all the fiber loops in Portland for ELI went through a single manhole / vault in a street in downtown Portland. The risk was so great that ELI filled the vault with fire block I think this was prompted by a garbage truck breaking down and catching fire a block away, I think the truck melted into the street before it was put out. Thank you Russell From russell-evans at qwest.net Sat Feb 14 13:09:01 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sat Feb 14 13:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fw: RH9 internet access via D-Link router/comcast cable modem In-Reply-To: <1076791139.27889.63.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <15758874.1076658571568.JavaMail.root@statler.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <1076691494.27884.2.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040214123453.7900e0de@downtown> <1076791139.27889.63.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040214130808.00a16434@downtown> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:38:59 -0800 "AthlonRob" wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 12:34, Russell Evans wrote: > > > It always helps to trouble shoot from the bottom up. Simplified: > > wires, MACs, routing, and then the applications. DNS is an > > application. > > If you look closely at the email I sent... we established connectivity > to the router itself, so the next step was establishing connectivity > with the rest of the Internet... routing. :-) > > If the ping went through to an IP on the Internet, then it would > appear routing was working. If a ping did not go through to an IP on > the Internet, then routing is not working. > > If routing was working, then it would appear to be a DNS issue we were > facing. In my experience, people usually use a web browser or ping a > domain name to test Internet connectivity... so if DNS is down, they > think they can't get out at all. > > Rob Ok, my bad. Thank you Russell From m at phxlinux.org Sat Feb 14 13:40:03 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 14 13:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Yum problematic In-Reply-To: <20040214180247.20186.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > I've been using Yum to keep my work and home systems updated, and in > the last week or so, it has been very slow and tends to hand. Are > others experiencing this as well? I never got Yum to consistently work until I changed sources. I modified /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources: #yum fedora-core-1 http://fedora.redhat.com/releases/fedora-core-1 #yum updates-released http://fedora.redhat.com/updates/released/fedora-core-1 yum fedora-core-1 http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/updates/1/i386 yum updates-released http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/core/updates/1/i386 From heinlein at madboa.com Sat Feb 14 14:10:04 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:10:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > In such matters, it always seems childish to me when you start > debating the individuals making arguments rather than the arguments > themselves. Even if he started it first. This is *so* true. I will add, however, that Mr. Schieberl's own argumentation invites a certain level of biographic investigation: I'm the biggest geek I know, and I don't have to waste time configuring my system from a command line to prove it. As others have made clear, his social circle isn't terribly large if he's the "biggest geek" he knows (unless, perhaps, "biggest" refers to physical size, but I doubt that :-). -- Paul Heinlein From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 14 14:14:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 02:02:54PM -0800, Geoff Burling wrote: > > A quick & dirty googling of Steve Schieberl shows (1) he doesn't seem to > > be in the pay of Microsoft, but (2) he's far from being the biggest geek > > in Portland; if he's the biggest geek he knows, he must not know one. > > 29 posts to the mailling list of the "HTML Writer's Guild, one mention > > that he's a former student of an introductory web design class > > (apparently he attended some time in 1998 or 1999), & credit for a > > single web site -- a virtual swap market that is far smaller in scale than > > Craig's List, let alone eBay. > > Why not include that in a letter to WW's editors? Um... because it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Didn't you learn anything from Cliff Wells? Get a nice book on rhetoric and look up "ad hominem". J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 14 14:18:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:18:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: <20040214130300.4e2ddcef@downtown> References: <863c9gkmzn.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <402C0554.3010002@madboa.com> <402C5936.3060009@quirkyqatz.com> <20040214004619.GD11067@ursine.ca> <20040214130300.4e2ddcef@downtown> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Russell Evans wrote: > One of the best aerial fiber examples is the fiber that is run in armor > at the tops of high voltage transmission lines. [snip] > Underground fiber cables also have loops, but these are stored in vaults > under the streets, think a six foot deep by four foot by four foot wide > concrete box with a manhole at the top.. At one point all the fiber > loops in Portland for ELI went through a single manhole / vault in a > street in downtown Portland. The risk was so great that ELI filled the > vault with fire block I think this was prompted by a garbage truck > breaking down and catching fire a block away, I think the truck melted > into the street before it was put out. This may have been prompted by a different event. When I was at ELI (three years in data engineering developing network management systems), we had a major fiber break in Eugene when that car lot caught fire... the overhead fiber melted for, like 50 feet in each direction. Boyo, that was a mess. And you should have seen the alarm storm. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From brian at brianquade.net Sat Feb 14 14:46:01 2004 From: brian at brianquade.net (Brian Quade) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:46:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] jsp/tomcat/mysql hosting company recommendations??? Message-ID: <402EA515.3080807@brianquade.net> Can anyone recommend a good jsp/tomcat/mysql hosting company? I am not satisfied with the service or support from the company I signed up with recently, whose name I won't mention (not Portland-based though), and am wondering if anyone can recommend one to me from experience you have had. I would like to keep my costs under $20 per month if possible. From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 14 14:50:03 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:50:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040214224930.GA9722@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 02:09:09PM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > I will add, however, that Mr. Schieberl's own argumentation invites a > certain level of biographic investigation: > > I'm the biggest geek I know, and I don't have to waste time > configuring my system from a command line to prove it. Which is why I brought it up. He's not a geek, and it's insulting to those of us who are for him to make such a claim. > As others have made clear, his social circle isn't terribly large if > he's the "biggest geek" he knows (unless, perhaps, "biggest" refers to > physical size, but I doubt that :-). In which I'll have to go track down an old friend from Stream. Rob, the self described "incredible folding fat fsck." When he was my roommate, he came up with a unit of measurement known as the RBU (you can probably guess the expansion), which is about 1.5 times the width of your standard couch cusion, and roughly as deep, or roughly two thirds the front bench in a 1983 Buick Skylark. When he got into the Buick we shared too fast, the side he got in on would momentarily bottom out (and the suspension wasn't shot), and the car wouldn't fully lift back up on that side until after he got out. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALqX6UzgNqloQMwcRArJbAJ9Wy20se7MW5bC0S0dgXKLo5Pg90QCg3s15 IcI6KoF1Qf7Ey4dUzzQlS5g= =nsBX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Sat Feb 14 14:57:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Sat Feb 14 14:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <31234-81868@sneakemail.com> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin jeme-at-brelin.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > Get a nice book on rhetoric and look up "ad hominem". Book? What century are *you* living in? ;-) (Does that count as Ad Hominem?) http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html -- Steve From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 14 15:18:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 14 15:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? For a lot of data, yes. In the environmental world, "POTS" is a Publicly-Owned Treatment System. In other words, a sewage processing plant. And that's where a lot of environmental data belong. :-) Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 14 15:24:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 14 15:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040214202604.GC31925@ursine.ca> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> <20040214202604.GC31925@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > Wow...you're right, that letter really is intelligence-free. FWIW, I sent a 1,019-word response yesterday and Marc Zusman, the WW editor, asked me to cut it down to 250 words for publication. I got it down to 263 words so I'm sure there will be room for more letters in response. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 14 15:28:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 14 15:28:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > In such matters, it always seems childish to me when you start debating > the individuals making arguments rather than the arguments themselves. > Even if he started it first. D'accord. The reason Galen pointed this out in the first place is the impression such a letter could leave with the general public. It is important to refute his claims factually and verifiably. Unfortunately, it is the last written word that someone reads that remains in memory. We want that last word to be linux positive. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 14 15:38:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 14 15:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > I will add, however, that Mr. Schieberl's own argumentation invites a > certain level of biographic investigation: I found this quote from Schieberl's letter to be the most telling: "Most people use their computers for business, Web browsing, email and printing pictures in a thought-free environment." The two points I see here are: 1) the co-mingling of business ("business" and "email") and personal ("Web browsing" and "printing pictures") use and 2) the very Microsoft-centric and all-too-true "thought-free environment". Anyone who would write that "most people use their computers ... in a thought-free environment" would fail in a non-Microsoft world. That's why we have open relays, virus infected systems and grey hairs on network administrators. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 14 16:06:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> <20040214202604.GC31925@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040215000556.GB18327@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 03:22:50PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > FWIW, I sent a 1,019-word response yesterday and Marc Zusman, the WW > editor, asked me to cut it down to 250 words for publication. I got it down > to 263 words so I'm sure there will be room for more letters in response. Hopefully the edit won't be too bad, since 13 words is roughly a sentence or two. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALrfkUzgNqloQMwcRAjmUAJ9129nakdt48lua038MDu04YEc+vwCgqZsd gJ4YFXq+6eVba/m05tGUtzY= =dACY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 14 16:08:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040215000717.GC18327@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 03:36:47PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Anyone who would write that "most people use their computers ... in a > thought-free environment" would fail in a non-Microsoft world. That's why I can go to WalMart and get a cheap computer with Lindows on it, then, right? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFALrg1UzgNqloQMwcRAsI+AKCW7AtvN6TICZzypduqMYRMfldewQCff4zn ZZrKxjNdnvTvM/nWgaOP3tw= =9BJy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 14 16:08:16 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:08:16 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040215000556.GB18327@ursine.ca> References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> <20040214202604.GC31925@ursine.ca> <20040215000556.GB18327@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 03:22:50PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > FWIW, I sent a 1,019-word response yesterday and Marc Zusman, the WW > > editor, asked me to cut it down to 250 words for publication. I got it down > > to 263 words so I'm sure there will be room for more letters in response. > > Hopefully the edit won't be too bad, since 13 words is roughly a > sentence or two. I think they should just take 13 words out at random. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Sat Feb 14 16:35:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: <1076805266.12656.3.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:19, Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? Yes. There's a box that splits into up to 24 channels. You can designate from one to all 24 anything you want with the right settings. It's programmed like a router, but I can't remember the name of the box. I'll never forget the customer that had 2/24 set for data the rest for voice. The management was astounded at how fast their T1 was, but didn't know that they were using less than a tenth of it for data, the rest for voice. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 14 16:41:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> <20040214202604.GC31925@ursine.ca> <20040215000556.GB18327@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > I think they should just take 13 words out at random. I offered to remove the vowels but haven't seen a response to that offer. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 14 16:48:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 14 16:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: References: <20040213052215.81FF48F05@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <20040213091121.GF3305@ursine.ca> <20040213163137.GA18843@ahapala.net> <20040214202604.GC31925@ursine.ca> <20040215000556.GB18327@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > I think they should just take 13 words out at random. > > I offered to remove the vowels but haven't seen a response to that > offer. This is definitely more suited for plug-talk, but I really don't see why, if they're pressed for space, they don't do things like that. Seems pretty easy to write an algorithm that removed letters while still preventing ambiguous cases. (Now, what percentage of those would be immediately recognizable to humans is another story.) J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From aschlemm at comcast.net Sat Feb 14 19:22:02 2004 From: aschlemm at comcast.net (Anthony Schlemmer) Date: Sat Feb 14 19:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: <200402141920.54942.aschlemm@comcast.net> What I don't know about T1s and data communications far exceeds what I know but I'll answer this question since we have this in the office I work in to a limited extent. We have a single T1 and have it provisioned such that 1/2 of the line is our ISP data connection and the other half is used for our phones. We have a battery backed up box mounted in the closest with our PBX that is called a channel bank. It connects to our PBX and then it also has 4 POTS lines coming out of it that are connected directly to the punch-down panel in the telco closet. The channel bank also has a router card in it that we connect to our firewall's WAN port with a crossover cable. So yes it is possible to get POTS lines out of a T1 with the right equipment and provisioning in place. Tony On Saturday 14 February 2004 11:19 am, Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? > > > Thanks, guys. -- Anthony Schlemmer aschlemm at comcast.net From kens at cad2cam.com Sat Feb 14 20:39:02 2004 From: kens at cad2cam.com (Kenneth G. Stephens) Date: Sat Feb 14 20:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Just a note on the DVD writer Message-ID: <1076819917.32533.43.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> BTW-The driver available in RedHat 8.0 for writing DVD's uses the DVD-R format Need to get some of them. Today I bought the DVD+R. Thinking that the + is better than -. Well. . . . The box said Windows 98 or better. It said it could do DVD+R AND DVD-R. Just checked the drivers available. Generic DVD-R is the only one available. At least there is one DVD driver available. Back to Freddies to buy the DVD-R. """DVD-R*** not DVD+R for writing DVD's with Linux. Ken CAD2CAM.COM From wcooley at nakedape.cc Sat Feb 14 21:54:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Sat Feb 14 21:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] bash surprise In-Reply-To: <1076775989.9783.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076698063.9783.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040213185430.GA23962@patch.com> <1076700926.9783.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <200402140220.SAA32283@smtp.gssf.org> <1076775989.9783.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076824430.13369.3.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:26, Bill Spears wrote: > Apparently on Fedora, it doesn't. Lacking guidance from any Linux > Gurus, I put it in /etc/profile. Try /etc/sysconfig/i18n. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * * * * Good, fast and cheap: Pick all 3! * * * * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Naked Ape Business Server http://nakedape.cc/r/smb * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Jeff at Blain.org Sat Feb 14 22:07:02 2004 From: Jeff at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Sat Feb 14 22:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <1076782105.14747.10.camel@dizzy.blain.org> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:35, Mike De La Mater wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > > > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > > included in the server configuration > > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > > > # > > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > > # > > Order allow,deny > > Allow from all > > > > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure > that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been > re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? The "oh" in Order is correct. I actually changed it to "o" and "0" then back again just to make sure. The access module is there and I guess intact. mesa:/etc/apache# ls -l /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_access.so -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7464 Dec 17 09:02 /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_access.so Jeff From Jeff at Blain.org Sat Feb 14 22:07:17 2004 From: Jeff at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Sat Feb 14 22:07:17 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <20040214174759.GA23603@ahapala.net> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> <1076780101.12408.8.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040214174759.GA23603@ahapala.net> Message-ID: <1076782286.14747.13.camel@dizzy.blain.org> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 11:47, Keith Nasman wrote: > On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 09:35:01AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 08:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > > > > > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > > > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > > > included in the server configuration > > > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > > > > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > > > > > # > > > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > > > # > > > Order allow,deny > > > Allow from all > > > > > > > Looks just like the lines in my httpd.conf, Have you checked to be sure > > that the "oh" isn't indeed a zero, and that the access module has been > > re-loaded, and that the module is in tact? > > > > I think apache is interpreting "Order allow,deny" as a tag. Make sure > there is a above it. That is actually one of the first things I tried, but got different errors like... Invalid command '' Upon looking at other apache configs, they are all like what is listed above. Jeff From russell-evans at qwest.net Sun Feb 15 00:17:01 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sun Feb 15 00:17:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Just a note on the DVD writer In-Reply-To: <1076819917.32533.43.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> References: <1076819917.32533.43.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> Message-ID: <20040215001643.36a01aff@downtown> On 14 Feb 2004 20:38:37 -0800 "Kenneth G. Stephens" wrote: > BTW-The driver available in RedHat 8.0 for writing DVD's uses the > DVD-R format Need to get some of them. Today I bought the DVD+R. > Thinking that the + is better than -. Well. . . . > > The box said Windows 98 or better. It said it could do DVD+R AND > DVD-R. > > Just checked the drivers available. Generic DVD-R is the only one > available. At least there is one DVD driver available. > > Back to Freddies to buy the DVD-R. """DVD-R*** not DVD+R for writing > DVD's with Linux. http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/linux/DVD+RW/ But if they support both + and - recording strategies, why are they called dvd+rw-tools? A. For historical/nostalgical reasons, as originally they did support exclusively DVD+plus. On the other hand now, when the vast majority of DVD burners that are being introduced to the market today are DVD+capable, the name most likely refers to your unit in either case. And you can always consider the plus in the name as notion of some unique quality, such as "seamless" multi-sessioning, not as reference to some particular format:-) http://www.k3b.org/ DVD burning: * Support for DVD-R(W) and DVD+R(W) * Creating data DVD projects * Creating eMovix DVDs * Formatting DVD-RWs and DVD+RWs http://www.xcdroast.org/ # Note about DVD+R/RW support: cdrecord.ProDVD requires in some cases the command-line option "-force" to write on DVD+R/RW media. If this option is missing you get the irritating message: "Cannot write CD's >= 100 minutes". As X-CD-Roast does not yet support the -force option, you have to wait for a new version, or use the command line manually. From beattie at beattie-home.net Sun Feb 15 07:51:01 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Sun Feb 15 07:51:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076860243.840.16.camel@kokopelli> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 15:40, AthlonRob wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 12:34, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > Why not include that in a letter to WW's editors? > > In such matters, it always seems childish to me when you start debating > the individuals making arguments rather than the arguments themselves. > Even if he started it first. While I understand the urge to view SS as a shill and to investigate him, I think it is much more effective to debate his argument. The validity of most of his arguments is independent of his skills, or geekiness. Finally I agree that the best thing to do is ignore him. > > Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From beattie at beattie-home.net Sun Feb 15 07:55:02 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Sun Feb 15 07:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <20040214224930.GA9722@ursine.ca> References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <1076791211.27897.65.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040214224930.GA9722@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076860480.843.21.camel@kokopelli> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 17:49, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 02:09:09PM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > > I will add, however, that Mr. Schieberl's own argumentation invites a > > certain level of biographic investigation: > > > > I'm the biggest geek I know, and I don't have to waste time > > configuring my system from a command line to prove it. > > Which is why I brought it up. He's not a geek, and it's insulting to > those of us who are for him to make such a claim. While I don't argue this point, that part of his letter was the kind of throw away line we are often tempted to add to our missives. It have very little to do with the basic argument and should not be elevated to the center of the debate. It is more of a taunt, than an argument. -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From beattie at beattie-home.net Sun Feb 15 08:03:01 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Sun Feb 15 08:03:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Willamette Week letter In-Reply-To: <31234-81868@sneakemail.com> References: <20040213210749.GA5507@nellump.net> <20040214203442.GD31925@ursine.ca> <31234-81868@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1076860951.840.29.camel@kokopelli> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 17:56, Steve Bonds wrote: > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin jeme-at-brelin.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > > > Get a nice book on rhetoric and look up "ad hominem". > > Book? What century are *you* living in? ;-) (Does that count as Ad > Hominem?) No it does not, it could be a straw man attack or or a composition fallacy or perhaps "Appeal to Ridicule". > > http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html > > -- Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From techmage at aracnet.com Sun Feb 15 08:40:03 2004 From: techmage at aracnet.com (Prutzer) Date: Sun Feb 15 08:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Question for SUSE users In-Reply-To: <20040214012116.75f1e885@downtown> References: <402d3c13.17796428@mail.aracnet.com> <20040214012116.75f1e885@downtown> Message-ID: <402f9f60.940427@mail.aracnet.com> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:21:16 -0800, you wrote: >SuSE has been my distribution of choice for a while. I would say 8.0 is >one of my least liked reversions. 8.0 is when SuSE made the jump to >yast2and being a long time yast user it wasn't in my opinion ready. > > >The current SuSE is 9.0 and yast2 is now pretty good. The default >install is pretty easy to doon most hardware. If you come up against a >wall the install is flexible enough where you can probably install >around the issue. > >Thank you >Russell Thank You Russel, Yes, this is the type of information I was looking for. Something that gave both pro and con to a product. I've noticed in the ads for the Suse 9 that it has a DVD, is that needed for the install? Also, since this isn't my First distro and I'm looking for something to go as a serverware for a SOHO setup, if you don't mind expounding for my benefit, how does Suse stack up and what might you use instead? For background, I've been playing wit RedHat since version 5 and although I'm no novice, I'm still not as knowledgable as I'd like. If time and money were not so tight right now, I'd be in several of Ed's classes learning what PCC should have been teaching me over the last three years. Thank you for your time and considerable help with this. Harry Howard Dont immanentize the eschaton From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 15 10:07:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 15 10:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation Message-ID: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Discussion for a quiet Sunday, when we should all be outside, because it is really sunny and beautiful: I like Linux, in fact, I love it. But dammmn, there are a lot of things to do and know, and man pages are usually useful only if you just need a reminder for some option name. For example, it is pretty hard to figure out cdrecord from it's man pages, although it can be done. So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. -- Bill Spears From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sun Feb 15 10:49:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 15 10:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 10:06, Bill Spears wrote: > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. I use google. When I need to do something at the command line, I google for it... what I'm looking for is an example of somebody doing something similar to what I'm trying to do... so I can extrapolate it to what I am doing. When man pages have good examples, I never get past them. Yeah, man pages can get ugly, and I agree when you're trying to figure out how to do something without knowing the program already, man pages feel very complex. Usually, somebody has posted on use-net or the web how to do something close to what I'm trying to do, though, so I just use their example to get a basic grasp on the program's arguments and run with it, with aid from the man pages. :-) Rob From seniorr at aracnet.com Sun Feb 15 10:51:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Sun Feb 15 10:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <86oes0p46i.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Spears writes: Bill> So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up Bill> with? Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc Bill> book, spiral notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. You left out two important ones: howto's and google. Instead of spiral notebooks, which I use only for very short term notes (because I'll never find them again), I have a logbook mode set up in Emacs, which date-stamps an entry in a date-named file. M-x add-logbook-entry, is what I call it (I hacked 159 lines of add-log.el). Then I type whatever notes I have in there, about what I ultimately figured out that works. Then, when I want to find it again, I just grep the logbook directory. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 15 10:57:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 15 10:57:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 10:06:45AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > Discussion for a quiet Sunday, when we should all be outside, because it > is really sunny and beautiful: I would, but I'm broke, and if I leave my parking space, odds are I'm not getting it back. > I like Linux, in fact, I love it. But dammmn, there are a lot of > things to do and know, and man pages are usually useful only if you just > need a reminder for some option name. For example, it is pretty hard to > figure out cdrecord from it's man pages, although it can be done. Well, that's why there's frontends like k3b, xcdroast and CD Bake Oven. They deal with cdrecord so you don't have to. But the comment about the man-pages...I learned Linux from those. I don't see what the big deal is. Granted, I'm coming from the perspective of learning DOS from the DOS 3.3 manual when I was 8. But still, if an 8-year-old could handle worse documentation than a man page and come out on top, surely someone with a high school or college education can handle it readily. > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. Debian provides a nice package called dwww, which is pretty much everything I need. http://ursine.ca/dwww/ - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAL8DLUzgNqloQMwcRAr/yAJ9ASMxExIvGpaK/rAJVq0mqFS02IACgyPbH OXh3gdtPx9y2Ci4wmLbMT0A= =aLS2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From miken at hotsushi.com Sun Feb 15 11:19:01 2004 From: miken at hotsushi.com (Mike Neal) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:19:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <200402151918.i1FJIl7K013822@citrine.spiritone.com> Hi, Whenever I do something of any complexity, it goes into a text file, a sort of ongoing cheat sheet. It's a brief reminder of the steps, links, config files, command line options, etc. to do it again. Ex. apache with virtual domains, NAT with iptables, installing Postfix, required info in DNS, common ways of calling rpm, etc. Great for those senior moments where I don't want to reread the entire HowTo again. Cheers, Mike has the At 10:06 AM 2/15/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Discussion for a quiet Sunday, when we should all be outside, because it >is really sunny and beautiful: > >I like Linux, in fact, I love it. But dammmn, there are a lot of >things to do and know, and man pages are usually useful only if you just >need a reminder for some option name. For example, it is pretty hard to >figure out cdrecord from it's man pages, although it can be done. > >So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? >Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral >notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. >-- >Bill Spears > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From griffint at pobox.com Sun Feb 15 11:19:13 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:19:13 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <200402151118.10052.griffint@pobox.com> On Sunday 15 February 2004 10:06 am, Bill Spears wrote: > Discussion for a quiet Sunday, when we should all be outside, because it > is really sunny and beautiful: > > I like Linux, in fact, I love it. But dammmn, there are a lot of > things to do and know, and man pages are usually useful only if you just > need a reminder for some option name. For example, it is pretty hard to > figure out cdrecord from it's man pages, although it can be done. > > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. 1) For programs I use infrequently that have complex options, once I get the program figured out I commit what I've learned to a script. The script contains the switches for the options I always want to use, and maybe some comments for the some of the other options. I always include a "$*" parameter so I can pass in extra parameters. 2) If you can't get what you need from the man pages don't forget to check the package documentation under /usr/share/doc. For some packages (like cdrecord) this doesn't get you much. But for others you may find lots of good stuff. 3) Google. 4) Ultimately you may have to address the problem the open source way. That is, improve the documentation yourself and then contribute it back to the project in hopes that it will be included in future releases. This is better than writing your own documents and just hanging on to them, because if you get them included with the project's files then they are more likely to be kept up to date. Terry From miken at hotsushi.com Sun Feb 15 11:31:02 2004 From: miken at hotsushi.com (Mike Neal) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:31:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Question for SUSE users In-Reply-To: <402f9f60.940427@mail.aracnet.com> References: <20040214012116.75f1e885@downtown> <402d3c13.17796428@mail.aracnet.com> <20040214012116.75f1e885@downtown> Message-ID: <200402151931.i1FJVGUM014009@obsidian.spiritone.com> >I've noticed in the ads for the Suse 9 that it has a DVD, is that >needed for the install? The DVD has the contents of the several CDs. Use the CDs or the DVD. If you have the bandwidth, you can do a "free" ftp install but there are no downloadable ISOs for Suse 9 on x86. >Also, since this isn't my First distro and I'm looking for something >to go as a serverware for a SOHO setup, if you don't mind expounding >for my benefit, how does Suse stack up and what might you use instead? Red Hat isn't going where I want to be, Fedora is uncertain so Suse appears to be the best bet for business. Hopefully, Novell, with more commercial software experience than any of the other Linux vendors, will get it right this time. Cheers, Mike p.s. PCC is offering the Linux Installation and Configuration class, the Linux Networking class and a Network Security class Spring term. Any class that gets 15 students will be held. From bsr at spek.org Sun Feb 15 11:48:02 2004 From: bsr at spek.org (Brent Rieck) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <402FCCB1.3050205@spek.org> Bill Spears wrote: > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. I've started to use a personal wiki to keep information I've found useful.. it's still in a pre "critical mass" stage, so it's not my first thought whenever I wonder "how did I do that in the past?", but I think it might be at some point. --Brent From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 15 11:50:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:50:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <200402151118.10052.griffint@pobox.com> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <200402151118.10052.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Terry Griffin wrote: > 4) Ultimately you may have to address the problem the open source way. > That is, improve the documentation yourself and then contribute it back to > the project in hopes that it will be included in future releases. This is > better than writing your own documents and just hanging on to them, > because if you get them included with the project's files then they are > more likely to be kept up to date. This is what I did with my understanding (finally!) how to add Greek letters and mathematical symbols to figures drawn with tgif. The author's instructions were rather obtuse to me, so when I finally figured it out I wrote the process as a series of 3 or 4 steps. Then I sent it to the author. He added it to the appropriate Web page. Now, if I should ever forget, there's a readily available source for me to access. :-) Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From mikeraz at patch.com Sun Feb 15 11:57:01 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Sun Feb 15 11:57:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <402FCCB1.3050205@spek.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <402FCCB1.3050205@spek.org> Message-ID: <20040215195454.GB20037@patch.com> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 11:46:57AM -0800, Brent Rieck wrote: > Bill Spears wrote: > >So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > >Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > >notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. > > I've started to use a personal wiki to keep information I've found > useful.. it's still in a pre "critical mass" stage, so it's not my first > thought whenever I wonder "how did I do that in the past?", but I think > it might be at some point. I second the wiki idea. As long as your web server stays up it's easily reachable from any machine, wikis have built in full text search so you don't have to remember what you named the file, and when you do this in a work setting you can repsond to repeated questions by pointing people to the wiki page. If they find it lacking it is easy to update with a clarification. Personal wikis are by far the most flexible and easy to use personal documentation I've found. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: There is an innocence in admiration; it is found in those to whom it has not yet occurred that they, too, might be admired some day. -- Friedrich Nietzsche From mikedela at ipns.com Sun Feb 15 12:01:02 2004 From: mikedela at ipns.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT counter-strike user/server information Message-ID: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> I have a customer that's a counter strike player. I do not know much about the game except that it's a major security leak. Every time he logs into a steam server he gets bombarded, real time, with viruses. Is there a way to play this game without the open ports? -- Mike De La Mater Small Business Networks and Computers Your key to technology that works mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Sun Feb 15 12:12:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] DynDNS.org MailHop service? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076876208.2095.0.camel@timmy> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 08:17, Matt Alexander wrote: > Has anyone here used the dyndns.org mailhop service? Basically you would > run your mail server on a non-standard port and dyndns.org would relay > your mail to that port. > > http://www.dyndns.org/services/mailhop/relay.html > http://www.dyndns.org/services/mailhop/faq.html > > Has anyone had any problems/complaints with their service? > Thanks, > ~M > I haven't used any service like this, but no-ip.com also provides this (They call it alternate-port SMTP). Evan From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sun Feb 15 12:17:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:17:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT counter-strike user/server information In-Reply-To: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <1076876337.6667.20.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 12:00, Mike De La Mater wrote: > I have a customer that's a counter strike player. I do not know much > about the game except that it's a major security leak. > > Every time he logs into a steam server he gets bombarded, real time, > with viruses. > > Is there a way to play this game without the open ports? I don't fully understand... how is he bombarded with the viruses? To an email address? AFAIK, the server an client apps don't need email addresses anywhere. What ports are you having to open? IP_CONNTRACK does it all for me, it's plain old UDP stuff as far as the game itself is concerned. Rob From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 15 12:28:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 10:18, AthlonRob wrote: > On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 10:06, Bill Spears wrote: > > > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. > > I use google. When I need to do something at the command line, I google > for it... what I'm looking for is an example of somebody doing something > similar to what I'm trying to do... so I can extrapolate it to what I am > doing. When man pages have good examples, I never get past them. Yeah, > man pages can get ugly, and I agree when you're trying to figure out how > to do something without knowing the program already, man pages feel very > complex. > > Usually, somebody has posted on use-net or the web how to do something > close to what I'm trying to do, though, so I just use their example to > get a basic grasp on the program's arguments and run with it, with aid > from the man pages. :-) > > Rob > > Do you save any sort of notes of what you've figured out? I have a spiral notebook(actually many) where I figured out how to use mkisofs and cdrecord. I go back to these pages everytime. Re Google, it seems to me that Google is not as accurate as it used to be. An example. Suppose you wanted to find out about a) cdrecord, would that be your google entry, would you restrict the search to a site? b) I'm interested in understanding Linux/Unix better. So when LC_ALL came up, it turned out that there was a _whole_ bunch of stuff, i18n, etc. about locales, sorting, that I knew nothing about. Bill Spears From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 15 12:40:03 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Re Google, it seems to me that Google is not as accurate as it used to > be. > > An example. Suppose you wanted to find out about > a) cdrecord, would that be your google entry, would you restrict the > search to a site? Search for a how-to on the linux search: Goto enter into the search box: cdrecord how-to And let it fly. > b) I'm interested in understanding Linux/Unix better. So when LC_ALL > came up, it turned out that there was a _whole_ bunch of stuff, i18n, > etc. about locales, sorting, that I knew nothing about. You were dealing with something for which you had no point of reference. It's rare, but sometimes you come across something about which you know nothing and you have to do a bit of reading in order to know what you're trying to ask. Don't be hasty and make decisions before you understand. Take the time and do it right and next time you come across anything like that you'll have the understanding to ask the right questions. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 15 12:44:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <402FCCB1.3050205@spek.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <402FCCB1.3050205@spek.org> Message-ID: <1076877812.13677.32.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 11:46, Brent Rieck wrote: > Bill Spears wrote: > > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. > > I've started to use a personal wiki to keep information I've found > useful.. it's still in a pre "critical mass" stage, so it's not my first > thought whenever I wonder "how did I do that in the past?", but I think > it might be at some point. > > --Brent > That's cool. Sort of a text representation of your knowledge as it changes. How's it working? Is it difficult to do. To the list: Would this be a neat project for PLUG? Bill Spears From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sun Feb 15 12:45:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:45:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076877990.6649.25.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 12:27, Bill Spears wrote: > > Usually, somebody has posted on use-net or the web how to do something > > close to what I'm trying to do, though, so I just use their example to > > get a basic grasp on the program's arguments and run with it, with aid > > from the man pages. :-) > > Do you save any sort of notes of what you've figured out? I have a > spiral notebook(actually many) where I figured out how to use mkisofs > and cdrecord. I go back to these pages everytime. If it is something I might need again and something I don't think I'd be able to easily google again, I'll put it in a text file in my home directory... sometimes I grep -R my home directory to remember such things. Generally, though, I just use google. > Re Google, it seems to me that Google is not as accurate as it used to > be. > > An example. Suppose you wanted to find out about > a) cdrecord, would that be your google entry, would you restrict the > search to a site? > b) I'm interested in understanding Linux/Unix better. So when LC_ALL > came up, it turned out that there was a _whole_ bunch of stuff, i18n, > etc. about locales, sorting, that I knew nothing about. I think google is as accurate as ever... although with the abundance of information out there, growing daily, it can sometimes be difficult to find exactly what you're looking for. If I want to just "find out about cdrecord" I will read the CD Writing Howto and glance through the documentation on the cdrecord website. I rarely wish to read about such generic things. I want to know how to use cdrecord to blank and write to a CD-RW out of a pipe from mkisofs or something like that. On the LC_ALL thing; you must learn to refine your searches. Give as many keywords as possible you know will match up with what you're looking for. If that is too narrow, cut out a few keywords. If it's too broad, add a few more in there you think might work. Google, I think, is where it is at. :-) Rob From kyle at silverbeach.net Sun Feb 15 12:49:01 2004 From: kyle at silverbeach.net (Kyle Hayes) Date: Sun Feb 15 12:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Question for SUSE users In-Reply-To: <200402151931.i1FJVGUM014009@obsidian.spiritone.com> References: <20040214012116.75f1e885@downtown> <200402151931.i1FJVGUM014009@obsidian.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200402151248.42299.kyle@silverbeach.net> On Sunday 15 February 2004 11:30, Mike Neal wrote: > >I've noticed in the ads for the Suse 9 that it has a DVD, is that > >needed for the install? > > The DVD has the contents of the several CDs. Use the CDs or the > DVD. If you have the bandwidth, you can do a "free" ftp install > but there are no downloadable ISOs for Suse 9 on x86. Erm, actually this isn't entirely correct. There are downloadable CDs, but usually via Bit Torrent. SUSE (note The New Improved Capitalization(tm)) does not provide such downloads. Others do. After the post on the PLUG list noting that SUSE says that copied CDs are legal as long as they are not sold (i.e. no money changes hands), I downloaded my own copy. I'll buy another version of SUSE when my funding situation gets better. I prefer to support them when I can. I've used SUSE for years. While there are things I'd like to have changed, overall, it just works. On all my systems (P-II, P4, laptop w/P-III), it has just installed and worked without any hand holding or tweaking. I like SUSE's tweaking of KDE better than the stock KDE too. They've got some nice little things set up in 9 like firing off k3b when I put in a blank CD-R etc. I've added apt for RPM to my system and was able to get a lot more multimedia stuff working that way. > >Also, since this isn't my First distro and I'm looking for > > something to go as a serverware for a SOHO setup, if you don't > > mind expounding for my benefit, how does Suse stack up and what > > might you use instead? > > Red Hat isn't going where I want to be, Fedora is uncertain so Suse > appears to be the best bet for business. Hopefully, Novell, with > more commercial software experience than any of the other Linux > vendors, will get it right this time. I don't see Fedora as uncertain. I see its direction as uncertain. I wish that RH would let it go free and become something like Debian, but with RPM instead of .deb. Who knows what Novell and IBM are going to do with SUSE. They want a widely popular distro, so I doubt that they'll do anything really weird. I'm hoping they will see a popular "personal" distro as a requirement for a popular enterprize distro. RH lost a lot of my trust when they decided to stop spending much money on the base distro. I've been playing with Knoppix/Morphix/Mepis lately. Very interesting. They come a long way toward making me interested in Debian again. I really don't want to constantly spend time getting things to work and that has usually driven me toward commercial distros. You might consider Mepis. It has great hardware detection and has the ability to install itself to the harddrive. So do the other two, but when "cp -a" is the core of the installer, I lose a little faith :-) Knoppix makes an amazing rescue disk. I keep a copy handy near my machines. Best, Kyle From seniorr at aracnet.com Sun Feb 15 13:49:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Sun Feb 15 13:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <864qtsovy3.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Jeme" == Jeme A Brelin writes: Bill> b) I'm interested in understanding Linux/Unix better. So when Bill> LC_ALL came up, it turned out that there was a _whole_ bunch of Bill> stuff, i18n, etc. about locales, sorting, that I knew nothing Bill> about. Jeme> You were dealing with something for which you had no point of Jeme> reference. It's rare, but sometimes you come across something Jeme> about which you know nothing and you have to do a bit of reading Jeme> in order to know what you're trying to ask. FWIW, people studying to become Reference Librarians take whole classes in what's called "the reference interview", which is basically a dialog for extracting from the library user just what exactly they are looking for. This is necessary because many library users do not start with well-formed questions, where "well-formed" implies "aligned/matched with information resources available". Another frequent problem is that people come in to the library with a mistaken or "limited" impression of what is available. The librarian's job is to back them up and find out what they are really looking for so as to direct them to the best (or at least "better") source. My wife just gave me this example: a person comes in and asks "where are the almanacs?". Turns out they are looking for the GDP of Japan for the last 10 years, and this is available more conveniently in the International Financial Statistics Yearbook. Of course, in the context of Linux/Unix problems there are no reference librarians standing by. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From russell-evans at qwest.net Sun Feb 15 13:56:02 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sun Feb 15 13:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:56:12 -0800 "Paul Johnson" wrote: > I learned Linux from those. I don't see what the big deal is. > Granted, I'm coming from the perspective of learning DOS from the DOS > 3.3 manual when I was 8. But still, if an 8-year-old could handle > worse documentation than a man page and come out on top, surely > someone with a high school or college education can handle it readily. The issue with man pages is the fact that they aren't books or even a chapter. A book is to be read front to back in our culture. This defines a logical flow of the ideas presented. The second chapter builds on the first and so on. For older individuals, I put myself in this category at 40, learning from hypertext, man pages, or info pages requires a person to forget how they have learned in the past. There isn't a progression of ideas in these models, it is snap learning. You look for what you need right now and gloss over what you don't know. I assume after you've done enough of these exercises, you develop the big picture and concepts. Maybe this is closer to real world learning, learning from an experience while the experience is happening. This has nothing to do with intelligence or education level. It will be interesting to see what happens to society when the new generations will learn this is the way to learn, bookless learning, and the lessons are written by people taught, and have internalized, from the man page metaphor. I hate being a dinosaur. Thank you Russell From russell-evans at qwest.net Sun Feb 15 13:57:02 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sun Feb 15 13:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <200402151118.10052.griffint@pobox.com> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <200402151118.10052.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040215135652.49c25fea@downtown> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:18:10 -0800 "Terry Griffin" wrote: > On Sunday 15 February 2004 10:06 am, Bill Spears wrote: > > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. > > 1) For programs I use infrequently that have complex options, once I > get the program figured out I commit what I've learned to a script. > The script contains the switches for the options I always want to use, > and maybe some comments for the some of the other options. I always > include a "$*" parameter so I can pass in extra parameters. This is what I try to do and i think it helps the most. Thank you Russell From buchholz at easystreet.com Sun Feb 15 13:59:01 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Sun Feb 15 13:59:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? References: <1076786369.9692.4.camel@pookie> Message-ID: <402FEB99.3000104@easystreet.com> Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Is it possible to run POTS and data connections through the same T1? > Yes. T-1 lines are composed of 24 distinct 64kbits/s channels (plus a few overhead bits used for framing, signaling, etc.). Each channel is capable of replacing one standard voice circuit. You will need to decide how many of these channels you wish to dedicate to voice traffic and how many are allocated to data. From the end-user perspective, the data channels are generally "bonded" together into one combined channel. (Although I used to have a T-1 which was all data, but busted into 3 separate data channels -- 12 channels to corp. HQ, and 6 channels each to smaller corporate satellites.) Once you have decided on how many channels you need, you will probably need to purchase a device which performs the following functions: 1) Splits the incoming T-1 signal into it's voice and data streams. 2) Presents the data stream in a form which is acceptable to your router (often using the V.35 serial protocol). I've generally heard the term "data service unit" applied to boxes which perform this function. (See http://www.kentrox.com/products/family_dsu/index2.asp). 3) Presents the voice stream in a form which is acceptable to your phone system. You may need to purchase a digital interface card for your phone system, or pickup up a "channel banks" which will do the analog-to-digital conversions necessary to make each of the individual digital voice lines appears as a standard analog line at your site. I've been away from this industry for a few years, and the transport methods and equipment have been changing quickly. Talk to your provider and keep asking questions of other knowledgable folks. The short answer to your question is a resounding "yes". The real question, and one with many answers, is "How?". :-) This will involve the messy world of telecommunication standards (not to mention local office politics and finance). From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 13:59:14 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 13:59:14 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Load balancing two routers... Message-ID: <1076881952.23609.70.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> It seems if you give two routers in dhcp3 that the workstation tries them in order. How do you get load balancing going? From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 14:02:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage Message-ID: <1076882121.23610.77.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 13:03, Russell Evans wrote: > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:46:20 -0800 > "Paul Johnson" wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 05:58:46AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > > Today's Oregonian reports that someone tripped over a fiberoptic > > > cable > > > west of downtown Portland and broke it. > > > > Isn't fiber normally buried? > > > Only when required by law. It costs about $70 a foot to bury cable in > the Portland metro area. It costs about $10~30 a foot to do aerial > attachments. > > One of the best aerial fiber examples is the fiber that is run in armor > at the tops of high voltage transmission lines. > How much does it cost to run copper? Is the $70/foot mostly tax? If fiber can be run aerially, have any communities considered setting up their own and if so what's the permit process like to do that? Fiber is fast, then again WiFi is probably a better choice for a block network. How does fiber optic cable take water, sun, and wind? From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 14:03:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] XDMCP and ltsp 3 problems... Message-ID: <1076882229.23609.80.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> I've been trying to troubleshoot LTSP 3. I have a gray screen with large X cursor but none of the tips seem to be correct. Specifically I keep getting an error that the server is already open after which there's a going to sleep for 30 seconds message. How does gdm know which servers are running? Is it okay under Valhalla to uninstall fvwm, twm, and xdm packages or will this break gdm because of redhat's stringy dependencies? Are there any files under /etc/X11 in Valhalla that can be dumped, it's hard to troubleshoot when there are extra files, Redhat is notorious for this. Why does Redhat impose an arbitrary hierarchy of window managers anyways? For many reasons it doesn't always make sense to run a gnome or kde session where I'm wondering if anyone has replaced the prefdm script that's normally called from init? Strangely I can get VNC to work, guess a window manager doesn't have to be started for that. There was something about a possibility that the XDMCP port is bound to a dead process causing the gray screen, how does one check this? I've tried killing all gdm processes, removing the .X*-lock files under /tmp, and all gdm and X related files under /home, /tmp, /var/gdm, and /var/log. I've even brought up an LTSP terminal in runlevel 3 thinking I need to remove the lock on the terminal. Is there a well done gnome replacement for Redhat's that installs to Valhalla? I'm not sure what changed, LTSP used to work. It's probably something simple. BTW: Is it normal for ltsp in runlevel 3 to lack a resolver library, editor... I think a lot of libraries are left out. From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 14:05:03 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:05:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... Message-ID: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> rdate: got EOF from time server Googling, the only suggestion I've found is downgrading to inetd. -- Darkhorse From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 14:06:03 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:06:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Logging curiosities... Message-ID: <1076882359.23610.87.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Doing file on lastlog on a working server I noticed it wasn't an ascii text file. I'm curios why catting some logs trashes the terminal. Can all the logs be deleted? If they are, how do you recreate new empty ones? If a log file is missing, do logs go to the screen by default? Has anyone considered a smart cat, more, and less replacement that will not open files that trash the terminal? Is there a slick way to figure what is sending messages to the terminals and say have it put messages up on a terminal that's never used? Many messages are so nondescript it's hard to tell where there coming from to correct the offending program. Another thing peppering my logs is a keyboard timeout error. I'm not using an AT keyboard on my server. USB is far more convenient at the moment, it's what I have. I still have a PS/2 mouse on one box though. Why is the kernel probing for a PS/2 keyboard? Is there a way to stop this behavior? On some computers I've noticed, like my P4, USB keyboard doesn't work during post no matter what settings I try. Do I need to compile without PS/2 support or is that mice only? From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 15 14:09:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:09:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Load balancing two routers... In-Reply-To: <1076881952.23609.70.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076881952.23609.70.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > It seems if you give two routers in dhcp3 that the workstation tries > them in order. How do you get load balancing going? Do you really WANT load balancing? I mean, DHCP isn't exactly a great load for any system. All you really need is failover. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 15 14:13:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Russell Evans wrote: > I hate being a dinosaur. So stop being one. I remember once, years ago, when I doing techincal support, I was speaking with an elderly woman with very little computer experience and she said, "Please be patient with me, they didn't have this stuff in my day." I was FURIOUS. What does that mean, "in her day"? She's still ALIVE! There's no reason to ossify or fossilize or whatever. Just keep alert and alive and learning. Life is a process. When you stop growing, you stop living. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 14:24:01 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:24:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Load balancing two routers... In-Reply-To: References: <1076881952.23609.70.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1076883419.23610.121.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 14:08, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > > It seems if you give two routers in dhcp3 that the workstation tries > > them in order. How do you get load balancing going? > > Do you really WANT load balancing? I mean, DHCP isn't exactly a great > load for any system. > > All you really need is failover. I want the workstations to use the router that is least congested out of all the possibilities given. It's ridiculous to have two routers running all the time and only use the second one when the first one fails. Does failover work for static assignments? The other thing is that I don't want to add dhcp to a gateway or add a fourth server. From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 14:32:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:32:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> Message-ID: <1076883920.23609.138.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 14:13, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Russell Evans wrote: > > I hate being a dinosaur. > > So stop being one. > > I remember once, years ago, when I doing techincal support, I was speaking > with an elderly woman with very little computer experience and she said, > "Please be patient with me, they didn't have this stuff in my day." > > I was FURIOUS. What does that mean, "in her day"? She's still ALIVE! > There's no reason to ossify or fossilize or whatever. Just keep alert and > alive and learning. > > Life is a process. When you stop growing, you stop living. > That would be about 21 or so for most people physically... Mental growth isn't the only type of growth either where the brain breaks down in old age and holds onto only what it can and what is most important. Humility is needed for tech support work. Fear of old age is fear of God or what? Then again, why be afraid if there are some 90 year olds that are sharp as tacks smart. The world's at an end, I'm 22! Oh wait, that's not true! Society needs technology professionals who focus on bringing people up to speed over pumping up their egos with questionable knowledge gains, not that that isn't fun ;-) From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 14:34:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? Message-ID: <1076884049.23610.144.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> What is T1 technology compared to ISDN compared to ADSL, G-Lite? Are these all copper pair, phoneline, technologies? Is there special wiring for ISDN and TI involving different gauges of copper wire than what standard telephone lines use? Is it just the frequencies used? How does ISDN compare to T1? Where do OC3 or DS3 lines fit into this? How about Sprint's transcontinental fiber lines that carry over a terabit per second of data per line? I've read that ISDN failed because telcos couldn't roll it out for whatever reason and that DSL is a substitute. Has anyone heard of 45 mbps DSL? I thought I saw a white paper on this. From griffint at pobox.com Sun Feb 15 14:48:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> Message-ID: <200402151447.19133.griffint@pobox.com> On Sunday 15 February 2004 2:13 pm, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Russell Evans wrote: > > I hate being a dinosaur. > > So stop being one. > > I remember once, years ago, when I doing techincal support, I was speaking > with an elderly woman with very little computer experience and she said, > "Please be patient with me, they didn't have this stuff in my day." > > I was FURIOUS. What does that mean, "in her day"? She's still ALIVE! > There's no reason to ossify or fossilize or whatever. Just keep alert and > alive and learning. > > Life is a process. When you stop growing, you stop living. > Sheesh. How old are you? You should save your posting and then read it it to yourself every ten years. One day you'll know what she meant by "in her day." Terry From heinlein at madboa.com Sun Feb 15 14:51:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] XDMCP and ltsp 3 problems... In-Reply-To: <1076882229.23609.80.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076882229.23609.80.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > Why does Redhat impose an arbitrary hierarchy of window managers > anyways? For many reasons it doesn't always make sense to run a > gnome or kde session where I'm wondering if anyone has replaced the > prefdm script that's normally called from init? I haven't run anything but Xfce since Red Hat 7.1, so "impose" strikes me as the wrong verb. :-) You've got a couple choices: 1. Just put what you want in ~/.Xclients, e.g., #!/bin/bash /usr/bin/startxfce4 2. If you're running gdm (Red Hat's default display manager), then the files in /etc/X11/gdm will be of interest to you. The Sessions directory, in particular, is where you can add choices. Change the Default file to whatever you'd like. -- Paul Heinlein From ed at alcpress.com Sun Feb 15 14:54:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Sun Feb 15 14:54:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Logging curiosities... In-Reply-To: <1076882359.23610.87.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076882359.23610.87.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1076886245.853.6003.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 13:59, Darkhorse wrote: > Doing file on lastlog on a working server I noticed it wasn't an ascii > text file. I'm curios why catting some logs trashes the terminal. The terminal doesn't understand that the binary data are not characters and renders them. > Can all the logs be deleted? Yes > If they are, how do you recreate new empty ones? touch > If a log file is missing, do logs go to the > screen by default? No > Has anyone considered a smart cat, more, and less replacement that > will not open files that trash the terminal? Less From srau at rauhaus.org Sun Feb 15 15:03:02 2004 From: srau at rauhaus.org (Stafford A. Rau) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Logging curiosities... In-Reply-To: <1076886245.853.6003.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1076882359.23610.87.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1076886245.853.6003.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: <20040215230241.GA20805@rauhaus.org> * Ed Sawicki [040215 14:54]: > > Has anyone considered a smart cat, more, and less replacement that > > will not open files that trash the terminal? > > Less Or even better, strings | less. --Stafford From guy1656 at ados.com Sun Feb 15 15:10:02 2004 From: guy1656 at ados.com (GLL) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Counter-strike user - L-based FAKE server In-Reply-To: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <200402151512.34792.guy1656@ados.com> On Sunday 15 February 2004 12:00, Mike De La Mater wrote: : I have a customer that's a counter strike player. I do not know much : about the game except that it's a major security leak. : : Every time he logs into a steam server he gets bombarded, real time, : with viruses. : : Is there a way to play this game without the open ports? I had some friends over for a party, and one guest demonstrated how he gets a Linux-based laptop to emulate the game company's server. Then he (and other players) hook up their GameCubes to that, and play interactively. (This was for Sony games, though.) - GLL From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 15 15:41:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Software Job Prospects (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:50:27 -0800 From: Michael Trigoboff I sent this out to my classes at PCC yesterday: ----------------------------------------------- On Thursday, a student of mine asked me about software job prospects. Yesterday I heard a presentation by local software industry expert (and old friend of mine) Pete Mackie. Here's my understanding of what Pete had to say: Coding jobs are being outsourced overseas. There are plenty of places (e.g. India, Russia, China, Rumania, Klingon) where smart people are willing to write code for as little as one-ninth of what you would currently earn here in the USA. It's not a smart move any more for you to pursue a job that consists strictly of writing code. Those jobs are not likely to continue to exist here in large numbers in the long term (or if they do, the salaries will be significantly lower than they are now). Outsourcing currently has problems. Many companies that try software outsourcing have bad experiences. But the economic incentives are so great that companies have a large motivation to keep trying and they will eventually get it right. This means that a number of coding jobs will continue to be available locally, but that may be a short-term proposition. What will continue to be needed here in the USA, and will earn you decent $$$, is the ability to manage the offshore coders. To manage a remote project like this, you need to be a good programmer. You need to be able to understand a software project, and have a good idea how long it would take to implement. You need good communication skills. You need to be able to evaluate what the offshore team tells you. Are they communicating accurately with you? Are they reliable? Do they know what they're doing? You need to be able to evaluate the status of a project, the quality of the code, how closely they are following the job specification, and whether they're going to meet the project schedule. Speaking of the job specification, you need to be able to read one and tell whether or not it makes sense. You might be the one who writes that spec. You need the ability to understand the business you're working for, analyze their software needs, and come up with a sensible project proposal. You need good interpersonal skills, good writing skills, good management skills, and good programming skills. If you have this skill set and pursue the kind of job described above, you will be well-positioned for a promising career in the software industry. I want to add one cautionary note: Opinion on this topic is not totally unanimous at the moment. You would be well-advised to continue to pay attention and adjust your plans as the situation changes. The high-tech world is moving very quickly these days. You need to be alert. -- Michael Trigoboff, Ph.D. Instructor, Computer Information Systems & Computer Science Portland Community College http://spot.pcc.edu/~mtrigobo http://www.pcc.edu Software Engineer MLT Software, Inc. http://mltsoftware.home.comcast.net From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 15 15:45:04 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:45:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Speaking of Documentation Message-ID: <1076888692.1088.73.camel@apollo.spears.org> I just rebooted to make sure my LC_ALL was being set. Er, make that tried to. I hung on the new hardware check. It was easy to fix because the only difference was a USB smartmedia reader clinging to the back of my computer. Let's try the various aproaches: 1. Google(linux): checking for new hardware. Found: http://archives.mandrakelinux.com/newbie/2003-05/msg04438.php :: due to empty card reader. 2. man -k turns up kudzu which has --bus option. Perhaps kudzu --bus=pci might work. Can't tell. -- Bill Spears From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 15 15:50:07 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:50:07 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > b) I'm interested in understanding Linux/Unix better. So when LC_ALL > came up, it turned out that there was a _whole_ bunch of stuff, i18n, etc. > about locales, sorting, that I knew nothing about. Bill, I just sent to a friend of mine a great book that provides the best overview of linux I've read, "Linux A-Z". Another book that I found _very_ helpful is Marcel Gagne's, "Linux System Administration". I had read other linux/UNIX sysadmin books but his writing style and topic selection has been of great use to me. One possibility is to go down to Powell's Technical Books and look over the distribution-agnostic, general linux SysAdmin books. You'll find the one you like the best and makes the most sense to you. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 15 15:52:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 15 15:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> Message-ID: <1076889066.1088.79.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 14:13, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Russell Evans wrote: > > I hate being a dinosaur. > > So stop being one. > > I remember once, years ago, when I doing techincal support, I was speaking > with an elderly woman with very little computer experience and she said, > "Please be patient with me, they didn't have this stuff in my day." > > I was FURIOUS. What does that mean, "in her day"? She's still ALIVE! You were FURIOUS? My God, do you have any social awareness? > There's no reason to ossify or fossilize or whatever. Just keep alert and > alive and learning. > > Life is a process. When you stop growing, you stop living. > > J. Banal, but true. You might consider whether or not you need to learn some manners, or start learning them. When you stop learning politeness, you tempt others to stop your living(just kidding, no theat intended). -- Bill Spears From bsr at spek.org Sun Feb 15 16:11:02 2004 From: bsr at spek.org (Brent Rieck) Date: Sun Feb 15 16:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076877812.13677.32.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <402FCCB1.3050205@spek.org> <1076877812.13677.32.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <40300A43.8090603@spek.org> Bill Spears wrote: > That's cool. Sort of a text representation of your knowledge as it > changes. How's it working? Is it difficult to do. well, like it said it's still in pre "critical mass" stage, but it only took me about 10 minutes to set up initially. I'm using phpwiki with mysql, it suits my needs. --Brent From buchholz at easystreet.com Sun Feb 15 16:22:02 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Sun Feb 15 16:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? References: <1076884049.23610.144.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <40300CFB.6080704@easystreet.com> Wew! A lot of questions. Here is my best shot. (You real telco guys please chime in and fix my misteakes, eh?) Darkhorse wrote: > What is T1 technology compared to ISDN compared to ADSL, G-Lite? > > Are these all copper pair, phoneline, technologies? Is there special > wiring for ISDN and TI involving different gauges of copper wire > than what standard telephone lines use? Is it just the frequencies > used? > Same wires. Different signalling protocols (frequencies and voltages). > How does ISDN compare to T1? Where do OC3 or DS3 lines fit into > this? How about Sprint's transcontinental fiber lines that carry > over a terabit per second of data per line? > There are at least two different flavors of ISDN -- BRI (Basic Rate Interface) and PRI (Primary Rate Interface). B-chan D-chan -------- ----------------- BRI 2 1 @ 16 kbits/s PRI 23 1 @ 64 kbits/s The "B" (bearer) channels are 64 kbits/s each are used to carry the desired subscriber information. The "D" channel is a signalling channel used (primarily) to communicate with the ISDN switch at the telco office. It can be used to communicate information about each of the B channel status such as "on-hook", "off-hook", "ringing" ... I've also seen SOHO solutions which used a single BRI-ISDN configuration to do: voice line (first B channel), FAX line (second B channel), and credit card verification off of a slow (~9600 baud) serial link setup through the D-channel. (You'd have to find an ISDN guru to assist with *that* setup though.) The next two tables are from "The Guide to T-1 Networking" by William A. Flanagan. It is a text which has been used on local community college courses on telecommunications. (IIRC it was a bit spendy, but can probably be found in a local library or possibly as a used book for a reasonable price.) The North American digital heirarchy: Digital Equivalent Bit Rate Voice Circuits ----------- ------------- --------------- DS0 64 kbps 1 DS1 / T-1 1.544 Mbps 24 DS1C 3.152 Mbps 48 DS2 6.312 Mbps 96 DS3 / T-3 44.736 Mbps 672 DS4 274.176 Mbps 4032 European Digital Heirarchy: Digital Equivalent Bit Rate Voice Circuits ----------- ------------- --------------- - 64 kbps 1 E-1 2.048 Mbps 30 E-2 8.448 Mbps 120 E-3 34.368 Mbps 480 E-4 139.264 Mbps 1920 E-5 565.148 Mbps 7680 Unless you work in telecomm, probably the only ones you'll ever have to deal with are the DSO, DS1/T1, and DS3/T3 lines. The above heirarchies are for "copper wire" transport. The "OC" heirachy is for optical networks. For that, you can follow this link: http://www.linktionary.com/o/oc.html As you can see, pretty much every telco rate gets reference to the number of voice circuits it can support. I suspect the Sprint backbone links you are referring to use an optical transmission technique which utilizes muliple wavelengths of light (multiple "colors") on a single optical fiber. One specific technology is dense wave division multiplexing (DWDM). Here's a product which claims to support over 2 Tbps links http://www.ciena.com/products/corestream/corestream.htm > I've read that ISDN failed because telcos couldn't roll it out for > whatever reason and that DSL is a substitute. > That was part of the problem -- here are a couple more .... (1) Somehow, ISDN just wound up being too complex. One piece of information you needed to configure an ISDN modem was the type of switch at the telco central office (CO)! (2) What has been generally conceded as the largest problem is economics. When provisioning systems, and creating business models, telco company analysts were pretty much stuck in the "user picks up phone, dials, converses, and hangs up" world. So they could assume that n "ports" on a CO switch could support N lines (where n is significantly less than N). Switch ports are expensive. The problem ... this thing called the Internet. People would dial in, and never get off the line! (Local telecommuters did likewise, too. I was definately guilty of keeping my ISDN connection to work up for hours, if not days, at a time.) The beauty of DSL, from a provisioning standpoint, is that it allows the carrier to split the DSL signal off. The DSL signal is routed into a separate piece of equipment (a DSLAM -- digital subscriber line access multiplexor). This means the same old AT&T ESS-5 switch can continue to manage voice traffic without having to go through extensive upgrades. > Has anyone heard of 45 mbps DSL? I thought I saw a white paper on > this. > Nope ... but maybe Google has. :-) From john at meissen.org Sun Feb 15 16:28:01 2004 From: john at meissen.org (John Meissen) Date: Sun Feb 15 16:28:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Time server broken... In-Reply-To: (Your message of Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:11:02 PST.) <20040216001102.27644.31395.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <20040216002712.EB7F773B03@john.meissen.org> Darkhorse said: > rdate: got EOF from time server > >Googling, the only suggestion I've found is downgrading to inetd. Huh? You're not making much sense. Why not just change servers? john- From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 16:32:01 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 16:32:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Software Job Prospects (fwd) Message-ID: <1076891117.23610.211.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 15:39, Rich Shepard wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:50:27 -0800 > From: Michael Trigoboff > > I sent this out to my classes at PCC yesterday: > ----------------------------------------------- > > On Thursday, a student of mine asked me about software job prospects. > Yesterday I heard a presentation by local software industry expert (and old > friend of mine) Pete Mackie. Here's my understanding of what Pete had to > say: > > Coding jobs are being outsourced overseas. There are plenty of places (e.g. > India, Russia, China, Rumania, Klingon) where smart people are willing to > write code for as little as one-ninth of what you would currently earn here > in the USA. It's not a smart move any more for you to pursue a job that > consists strictly of writing code. Those jobs are not likely to continue to > exist here in large numbers in the long term (or if they do, the salaries > will be significantly lower than they are now). People want better quality and despite the Internet, I find it hard to believe that there's no room for doing the software engineering here. I also think Mackie is discounting the room for competition. For some of these countries that are being outsourced to, they aren't paid enough to take jobs from us so the public should consider more than cost in software acquisitions. My greatest concern is, is the education on how to program moving overseas as well? It's no secret that places like Southern Africa rank better in math and science, etc. An economic system where it's cheaper for someone else to do the thinking and production doesn't make any sense to me at all. > Outsourcing currently has problems. Many companies that try software > outsourcing have bad experiences. But the economic incentives are so great > that companies have a large motivation to keep trying and they will > eventually get it right. This means that a number of coding jobs will > continue to be available locally, but that may be a short-term proposition. By coding jobs does that mean copying jobs, or are these overseas people actually designing the programs? > What will continue to be needed here in the USA, and will earn you decent > $$$, is the ability to manage the offshore coders. To manage a remote > project like this, you need to be a good programmer. You need to be able to > understand a software project, and have a good idea how long it would take > to implement. You need good communication skills. You need to be able to > evaluate what the offshore team tells you. Are they communicating accurately > with you? Are they reliable? Do they know what they're doing? You need to > be able to evaluate the status of a project, the quality of the code, how > closely they are following the job specification, and whether they're going > to meet the project schedule. That supports fewer people than doing the coding here did. At PSU there wasn't much of a resource center I knew of to aid in the process of evaluating coding methods, etc. The programming assignments in cs202 were extremely hard and didn't make any sense. It was not possible in Karla's class to ask her questions for clarification and she didn't teach us methods to decide what a project statement means on our own. Where's the career counseling? If computer science is a painful dead end, why isn't more help offered to students to redirect their efforts elsewhere? > Speaking of the job specification, you need to be able to read one and tell > whether or not it makes sense. You might be the one who writes that spec. > You need the ability to understand the business you're working for, analyze > their software needs, and come up with a sensible project proposal. > > You need good interpersonal skills, good writing skills, good management > skills, and good programming skills. If you have this skill set and pursue > the kind of job described above, you will be well-positioned for a promising > career in the software industry. > > I want to add one cautionary note: Opinion on this topic is not totally > unanimous at the moment. You would be well-advised to continue to pay > attention and adjust your plans as the situation changes. The high-tech > world is moving very quickly these days. You need to be alert. Why doesn't PCC help people who want to become professional programmers in Linux environments more? If we're talking about cost, you have to get out of Microsoft software, yet there isn't anything for Linux compared to what their is for Microsoft at PCC. Outsourcing makes us intellectual slaves to foreign countries. This is dangerous and in the long run neither good for us nor for the country we depend on if it comes to see us as a burden. If anything, I would think being equals is better for foreign relations. What does not profitable mean? After all, I don't think most people feel computer science isn't worth it if they can't make as much as Gates did. I'm willing to program for a living wage, or $30-40k a year. Is that too much money to ask for? It's better to earn that for ten+ years than a lot over a very short period, a quality of life issue really. If you have to have a Ph.d. to make it in computer science, there's no reason to be in computer science unless a lot of the people out there now start to retire. From felix.1 at canids.net Sun Feb 15 16:42:01 2004 From: felix.1 at canids.net (Felix Lee) Date: Sun Feb 15 16:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: on Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:13:04 PST from Jeme A Brelin References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> Message-ID: <20040216004142.E0839170@grayscale.canids> Jeme A Brelin : > I was FURIOUS. What does that mean, "in her day"? She's still ALIVE! > There's no reason to ossify or fossilize or whatever. Just keep alert and > alive and learning. the simple fact is, the world is too large for one person to look at. it takes obsessive attention to keep up with new developments in any field of human endeavor. computers are a huge field, and frankly not very interesting. I never paid much attention to computers in the first place (I'm more of a compsci geek than a computer geek), and these days I often resent the amount of effort it takes to simply "stay current" in the narrow specialty I'm working in right now ("the unix world"). there are many things I'd rather be doing instead, and many of them have little to do with computers. someone using the phrase "back in my day" is probably joking. it's a lighthearted acknowledgement that the world is changing faster than anyone can keep up with, which makes everyone an ignorant fool from time to time. this is not a new observation, it's been that way for longer than I've been alive. -- From eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us Sun Feb 15 17:33:01 2004 From: eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us (Eric Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 15 17:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Load balancing two routers... In-Reply-To: <1076883419.23610.121.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On 15 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: >On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 14:08, Jeme A Brelin wrote: >> >> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: >> > It seems if you give two routers in dhcp3 that the workstation tries >> > them in order. How do you get load balancing going? >> >> Do you really WANT load balancing? I mean, DHCP isn't exactly a great >> load for any system. >> >> All you really need is failover. > >I want the workstations to use the router that is least congested out >of all the possibilities given. It's ridiculous to have two routers >running all the time and only use the second one when the first one >fails. > >Does failover work for static assignments? The other thing is that I >don't want to add dhcp to a gateway or add a fourth server. There are a number of protocols to route over multiple links: BGP, OSPF, and RIP for example. You'll find these in the zebra or quagga packages. (http://www.quagga.net, http://www.zebra.org) Unless you are running a big network, this is not something you will be able to do. Try calling up your ISP and tell them that you want to run BGP ;-) If you are using NAT on your routers, you might be able to come up with some sort of crude, home-brewed load balancing scheme. With sufficiently complex iptables/iproute rules, you could do something like force all HTTP traffic down one pipe, FTP down another... -Eric From seniorr at aracnet.com Sun Feb 15 17:40:03 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Sun Feb 15 17:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] converting RFC822/2822 date strings -> Postgresql timestamps Message-ID: <86lln3yf8o.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> I have a pile of email header date/times that I want to inject into a Postgresql database using Perl. The dates are in the form: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:42:22 -0800 Any pointers for doing the necessary conversion? -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us Sun Feb 15 17:41:03 2004 From: eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us (Eric Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 15 17:41:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] XDMCP and ltsp 3 problems... In-Reply-To: <1076882229.23609.80.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On 15 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: >I've been trying to troubleshoot LTSP 3. I have a gray screen with >large X cursor but none of the tips seem to be correct. LTSP has great docs: http://www.ltsp.org/documentation/ltsp-3.0-4-en.html The troubleshooting chapter has as section on "Grey screen": http://www.ltsp.org/documentation/ltsp-3.0-4-en.html#AEN707 -Eric From russell-evans at qwest.net Sun Feb 15 18:01:02 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Sun Feb 15 18:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <40300CFB.6080704@easystreet.com> References: <1076884049.23610.144.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <40300CFB.6080704@easystreet.com> Message-ID: <20040215180032.5d0df077@downtown> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:21:15 -0800 "Don Buchholz" wrote: > (2) What has been generally conceded as the largest problem is > economics. When provisioning systems, and creating business > models, telco company analysts were pretty much stuck in the > "user picks up phone, dials, converses, and hangs up" world. > telco company analysts are pretty much stuck in the "user picks up phone, dials 911 , converses, and hangs up" and help arrives. It is a pretty neat trick, that. My sister burnt out part of her brain because we were in a region of the world where this wasn't available. You might think about your children if you have some, or your parents if you're older. My mother's aunt fell over Christmas and broke her hip. She had to crawl into the kitchen to get to her phone. The one in the living room was a cordless and she couldn't get to it. Took her a couple of hours. Can you imagine a 94 year old woman with a broken bone making that trip. I hope I'm that tough when I'm that old, well if I get that old. Thank you Russell From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 18:41:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 18:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] XDMCP and ltsp 3 problems... In-Reply-To: References: <1076882229.23609.80.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1076898883.25786.13.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 14:49, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > > > Why does Redhat impose an arbitrary hierarchy of window managers > > anyways? For many reasons it doesn't always make sense to run a > > gnome or kde session where I'm wondering if anyone has replaced the > > prefdm script that's normally called from init? > > I haven't run anything but Xfce since Red Hat 7.1, so "impose" strikes > me as the wrong verb. :-) You've got a couple choices: > > 1. Just put what you want in ~/.Xclients, e.g., > > #!/bin/bash > /usr/bin/startxfce4 > > 2. If you're running gdm (Red Hat's default display manager), then the > files in /etc/X11/gdm will be of interest to you. The Sessions > directory, in particular, is where you can add choices. Change the > Default file to whatever you'd like. I want to see if I figure out why XDMCP is bombing though... Even if I want to do a configuration other than Redhat's I need to know how to uninstall Redhat's stuff from the scripts, etc. Contents of: /etc/X11/gdm [michael at goose gdm]$ ls -R .: factory-gdm.conf gnomerc locale.alias PreSession XKeepsCrashing gdm.conf Init PostSession Sessions ./Init: Default ./PostSession: Default ./PreSession: Default ./Sessions: default Default Failsafe Gnome My gdm.conf is attached... Also attached are xdm-config, Xaccess, Xsession, and Xsetup_workstation from /etc/X11/xdm. The prefdm script under /etc/X11 called from inittab is included. The file ls-lR-rc_d is a text file listing of my rc.d directory, it's in the etc_include.tar.gz file with the server's inittab file. This covers all the files that ltsp_initialize covers except of course the ltsp.gif file, that's just a picture after all... Troubleshooting attempt: [root at goose michael]# netstat -ap | grep xdmcp udp 0 0 *:xdmcp *:* 25535/gdm [root at goose michael]# [root at goose michael]# /sbin/ifconfig eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:03:47:BD:6C:A8 inet addr:192.168.1.2 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:2608573 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:3360350 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:238805912 (227.7 Mb) TX bytes:3249496138 (3098.9 Mb) Interrupt:11 Base address:0x2000 eth0:0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:03:47:BD:6C:A8 inet addr:192.168.2.2 Bcast:192.168.2.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 Interrupt:11 Base address:0x2000 lo Link encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:18335274 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:18335274 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:2879806932 (2746.3 Mb) TX bytes:2879806932 (2746.3 Mb) And here is lts.conf... # # Config file for the Linux Terminal Server Project (www.ltsp.org) # [Default] SERVER = 192.168.1.2 XSERVER = auto XDM_SERVER = 192.168.1.2 X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "PS/2" X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/psaux" X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = 400 X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 3 USE_XFS = Y LOCAL_APPS = N RUNLEVEL = 5 DNS_SERVER = 192.168.1.4 DNS_SERVER = 192.168.1.1 SEARCH_DOMAIN = "robinson-west.com" [eagle] X_MODE_0 = 1600x1200 #USE_NFS_SWAP = y #SWAPFILE_SIZE = 64m [condor] X_MODE_0 = 1600x1200 X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "IMPS/2" [hirtus] RUNLEVEL = 3 ### The following are the errors out of the syslog ### ### trying to start up an LTSP terminal in runlevel 5 # Feb 15 17:48:43 goose gdm(pam_unix)[23396]: session closed for user michael Feb 15 17:48:44 goose gdm[23396]: gdm_slave_xioerror_handler: Fatal X error - Restarting localhost.localdomain:1 Feb 15 17:54:23 goose dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.18 from 00:40:f4:2d:af:5c via eth0 Feb 15 17:54:33 goose dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.1.18 to 00:40:f4:2d:af:5c via eth0 Feb 15 17:54:33 goose dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.18 from 00:40:f4:2d:af:5c via eth0 Feb 15 17:54:33 goose dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.1.18 to 00:40:f4:2d:af:5c via eth0 Feb 15 17:54:33 goose dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.18 from 00:40:f4:2d:af:5c via eth0 Feb 15 17:54:33 goose dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.1.18 to 00:40:f4:2d:af:5c via eth0 Feb 15 18:01:09 goose dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.82 from 00:07:e9:86:ff:33 via eth0 Feb 15 18:01:09 goose dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.1.82 to 00:07:e9:86:ff:33 via eth0 Feb 15 18:01:09 goose dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.82 from 00:07:e9:86:ff:33 via eth0 Feb 15 18:01:09 goose dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.1.82 to 00:07:e9:86:ff:33 via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:05 goose dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:05 goose dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.1.66 to 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:05 goose dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.66 (192.168.1.2) from 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:05 goose dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.1.66 to 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:12 goose dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:12 goose dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.1.66 to 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:14 goose dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.1.66 (192.168.1.2) from 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:14 goose dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.1.66 to 00:a0:cc:7b:b4:0b via eth0 Feb 15 18:03:25 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:03:37 kitchen syslogd started: BusyBox v0.60.1 (2001.09.28-01:12+0000) Feb 15 18:03:35 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:03:42 kitchen init: Entering runlevel: 2 Feb 15 18:03:47 kitchen init: Switching to runlevel: 5 Feb 15 18:03:55 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:04:35 goose last message repeated 4 times Feb 15 18:04:45 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:04:54 goose gdm[25511]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:04:54 goose gdm[25511]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:04:55 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:05:05 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:05:06 goose gdm[25518]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:05:06 goose gdm[25518]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:05:15 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:05:22 goose gdm[25525]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:05:22 goose gdm[25525]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:05:25 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:05:45 goose last message repeated 2 times Feb 15 18:05:54 goose gdm[25533]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:05:54 goose gdm[25533]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:05:55 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:06:25 goose last message repeated 3 times Feb 15 18:06:26 goose gdm[25540]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:06:26 goose gdm[25540]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:06:35 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:06:55 goose last message repeated 2 times Feb 15 18:06:57 goose gdm[25542]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:06:57 goose gdm[25542]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:07:05 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:07:25 goose last message repeated 2 times Feb 15 18:07:28 goose gdm[25544]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:07:28 goose gdm[25544]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:07:35 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:07:55 goose last message repeated 2 times Feb 15 18:07:59 goose gdm[25548]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:07:59 goose gdm[25548]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:08:05 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:08:35 goose last message repeated 3 times Feb 15 18:08:44 goose gdm[25550]: Display :0 is busy, there is another X server already running Feb 15 18:08:44 goose gdm[25550]: Sleeping 30 seconds before retrying display :0 Feb 15 18:08:45 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:09:05 goose last message repeated 2 times Feb 15 18:09:14 goose gdm[25535]: Failed to start the display server several times in a short time period; disabling display :0 Feb 15 18:09:15 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:09:56 goose last message repeated 4 times Feb 15 18:11:06 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:12:16 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:13:26 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:14:36 goose last message repeated 7 times eb 15 18:15:26 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:15:34 web named[763]: XSTATS 1076897698 1076786098 RR=16 RNXD=13 RFwdR=0 RDupR=1 RFail=0 RFErr=0 RErr=0 RAXFR=0 RLame=0 ROpts=0 SSysQ=15 SAns=216 SFwdQ=0 SDupQ=0 SErr=0 RQ=202 RIQ=0 RFwdQ=0 RDupQ=0 RTCP=0 SFwdR=0 SFail=0 SFErr=0 SNaAns=1 SNXD=0 RUQ=0 RURQ=0 RUXFR=0 RUUpd=0 Feb 15 18:15:36 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:16:16 goose last message repeated 4 times Feb 15 18:17:26 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:17:28 goose gdm(pam_unix)[25565]: authentication failure; logname= uid=0 euid=0 tty=localhost.localdomain:1 ruser= rhost= user=michael Feb 15 18:17:30 goose gdm[25565]: Couldn't authenticate user Feb 15 18:17:36 goose gdm(pam_unix)[25565]: session opened for user michael by (uid=0) Feb 15 18:17:36 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:17:38 goose modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-slot-0 Feb 15 18:17:38 goose modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module sound-service-0-0 Feb 15 18:17:40 goose gnome-name-server[25676]: starting Feb 15 18:17:40 goose gnome-name-server[25676]: name server starting Feb 15 18:17:46 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:18:17 goose last message repeated 3 times Feb 15 18:19:27 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:20:37 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:21:47 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:22:47 goose last message repeated 6 times Feb 15 18:22:52 goose su(pam_unix)[25858]: session opened for user root by michael(uid=501) Feb 15 18:22:57 goose rpc.mountd: authenticated mount request from kitchen.robinson-west.com:694 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386) Feb 15 18:23:37 goose last message repeated 4 times Feb 15 18:24:47 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:25:57 goose last message repeated 7 times Feb 15 18:26:58 goose last message repeated 6 times Feb 15 18:28:08 goose last message repeated 7 times I tried the troubleshooting on www.ltsp.org, that's not getting to what's causing this. This used to work by the way. -------------- next part -------------- [daemon] AutomaticLoginEnable=false AutomaticLogin= AlwaysRestartServer=true Configurator=/usr/sbin/gdmconfig --disable-sound GnomeDefaultSession=/usr/share/gnome/default.session Chooser=/usr/bin/gdmchooser --disable-sound DefaultPath=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin DisplayInitDir=/etc/X11/gdm/Init Greeter=/usr/bin/gdmlogin --disable-sound Group=gdm HaltCommand= KillInitClients=false LogDir=/var/log/gdm PidFile=/var/run/gdm.pid PostSessionScriptDir=/etc/X11/gdm/PostSession/ PreSessionScriptDir=/etc/X11/gdm/PreSession/ FailsafeXServer= XKeepsCrashing=/etc/X11/gdm/XKeepsCrashing XKeepsCrashingConfigurators=/usr/bin/X11/XF86Setup /usr/bin/X11/Xconfigurator RebootCommand= RootPath=/sbin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin ServAuthDir=/var/gdm SessionDir=/etc/X11/gdm/Sessions/ SuspendCommand= User=gdm UserAuthDir= UserAuthFBDir=/tmp UserAuthFile=.Xauthority TimedLoginEnable=false TimedLogin= TimedLoginDelay=30 [security] AllowRoot=true AllowRemoteRoot=false AllowRemoteAutoLogin=false RelaxPermissions=0 RetryDelay=1 UserMaxFile=65536 SessionMaxFile=524288 VerboseAuth=true [xdmcp] Enable=true HonorIndirect=true MaxPending=4 MaxPendingIndirect=4 MaxSessions=16 MaxWait=30 MaxWaitIndirect=30 Port=177 PingInterval=5 [gui] GtkRC=/usr/share/themes/Raleigh/gtk/gtkrc MaxIconWidth=128 MaxIconHeight=128 [greeter] TitleBar=false ConfigAvailable=false Browser=true DefaultFace=/usr/share/pixmaps/nobody.png DefaultLocale=en_US Exclude=bin,daemon,adm,lp,sync,shutdown,halt,mail,news,uucp,operator,nobody,gdm,postgres,pvm,gopher,ident,ntp,pcap,rpc,root,vcsa,rpm,games,ftp Font=-*-helvetica-bold-r-normal-*-*-180-*-*-*-*-*-*,* GlobalFaceDir=/usr/share/faces/ Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/gdm.xpm LocaleFile=/etc/X11/gdm/locale.alias Logo= Quiver=true SystemMenu=true Welcome=Welcome to %n Welcome[es]=Bienvenido a %n Welcome[de]=Willkommen auf %n Welcome[fr]=Bienvenue sur %n Welcome[cs]=V?tejte na %n LockPosition=true SetPosition=false PositionX=0 PositionY=0 XineramaScreen=0 BackgroundType=0 BackgroundImage= BackgroundScaleToFit=true BackgroundColor=#274085 BackgroundRemoteOnlyColor=true BackgroundProgram=/usr/bin/xsri --redhat-login --run ShowGnomeChooserSession=true ShowGnomeFailsafeSession=true ShowXtermFailsafeSession=true [chooser] DefaultHostImg=/usr/share/pixmaps/nohost.png HostImageDir=/usr/share/hosts/ ScanTime=3 Hosts= Broadcast=true [debug] Enable=false [servers] 0=/usr/bin/X11/X -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: prefdm Type: text/x-sh Size: 1310 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: xdm.tar.gz Type: application/x-gzip Size: 2739 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: etc_include.tar.gz Type: application/x-gzip Size: 2713 bytes Desc: not available URL: From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 15 19:05:02 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Sun Feb 15 19:05:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rpm uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH? Message-ID: Dear All: I am using Fedora core 1. I am trying to install a tool via rpm and it complains missing a bunch of .so libraries, which I can see them all under a particular directory. So I add that directory to LD_LIBRARY_PATH. So get the same complain from rpm. Does RPM even looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH for shared object libraries? If not, is there another env variable I need to define? thanks for any pointer. --Vincent _________________________________________________________________ Choose now from 4 levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage - no more account overload! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 15 21:26:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 15 21:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076883920.23609.138.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> <1076883920.23609.138.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20040216052537.GE19660@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 02:25:20PM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > Society needs technology professionals who focus on bringing > people up to speed over pumping up their egos with > questionable knowledge gains, not that that isn't fun ;-) Ah yes. Tech support. The fine art of telling someone they're a moron. 8:o) - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMFRRUzgNqloQMwcRAq/xAJ4uRlYzvI5FipifP3BFROIPP9xphQCfdUDT 7NJ9bQq8/x1te+VgvVI8B40= =ARHW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From griffint at pobox.com Sun Feb 15 21:59:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Sun Feb 15 21:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rpm uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402152158.49366.griffint@pobox.com> On Sunday 15 February 2004 6:53 pm, Vincent Yau wrote: > Dear All: > > I am using Fedora core 1. > > I am trying to install a tool via rpm > and it complains missing a bunch of .so libraries, which I can see > them all under a particular directory. > > So I add that directory to LD_LIBRARY_PATH. So get the same complain > from rpm. > > Does RPM even looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH for shared object libraries? > If not, is there another env variable I need to define? > > thanks for any pointer. > I doubt very much that rpm would look at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. What directory are these libraries in? Is the directory listed in /etc/ld.so.conf? If not then add the directory to that file and then run 'ldconfig'. Terry From chris at maybe.net Sun Feb 15 22:26:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Sun Feb 15 22:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rpm uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH? In-Reply-To: <200402152158.49366.griffint@pobox.com> References: <200402152158.49366.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040216062528.GA20971@maybe.net> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 09:58:49PM -0800, Terry Griffin wrote: > > Does RPM even looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH for shared object libraries? > > If not, is there another env variable I need to define? > > > > thanks for any pointer. > > > > I doubt very much that rpm would look at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Ahem. ld-linux.so actually looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. And you'll notice that every single elf binary on your system is linked with this. ;-) So, rpm has no choice, actually. (Not that I have anything else to contribute to this thread.) -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Sun Feb 15 22:35:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Sun Feb 15 22:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rpm uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076913261.20888.6.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 18:53, Vincent Yau wrote: > Dear All: > > I am using Fedora core 1. > > I am trying to install a tool via rpm > and it complains missing a bunch of .so libraries, which I can see > them all under a particular directory. Well the problem is that the rpm you are installing requires a "file". RPM is trying to find that "file" in its own database, and I *think* places to look. So I do not think that RPM used LD_LIBRARY_PATH. Often if you look, the file is not in /etc/ld.so.conf, or that there is a lib change between the binaries you are installing and the libs on the system. I've had that a few time recently when projects decide to update their major numbers. It can foobar a number of things. Use google for the error message. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From lamsokvr at xprt.net Sun Feb 15 22:41:02 2004 From: lamsokvr at xprt.net (Guy Noire) Date: Sun Feb 15 22:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Gentoo Message-ID: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> Anyone use Gentoo?? -- Marvin J. Kosmal Linux Activist Registered User # 88512 Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 Livng life 0001 day at a time. From seniorr at aracnet.com Sun Feb 15 23:00:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] converting RFC822/2822 date strings -> Postgresql timestamps In-Reply-To: <86lln3yf8o.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86lln3yf8o.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <86ad3jwluk.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Russell" == Russell Senior writes: Russell> I have a pile of email header date/times that I want to Russell> inject into a Postgresql database using Perl. The dates are Russell> in the form: Russell> Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:42:22 -0800 Russell> Any pointers for doing the necessary conversion? Heh. Scratch the "necessary" part. Works as is. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From josh at emediatedesigns.com Sun Feb 15 23:02:01 2004 From: josh at emediatedesigns.com (Josh Orchard) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:02:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] jsp/tomcat/mysql hosting company recommendations??? In-Reply-To: <402EA515.3080807@brianquade.net> References: <402EA515.3080807@brianquade.net> Message-ID: <3471.216.99.218.67.1076914970.squirrel@sautez.com> > Can anyone recommend a good jsp/tomcat/mysql hosting company? I am > not > satisfied with the service or support from the company I signed up > with > recently, whose name I won't mention (not Portland-based though), and > am > wondering if anyone can recommend one to me from experience you have > had. I would like to keep my costs under $20 per month if possible. Brian, I tried to write to you but you email does not work. Domain unknown. Contact me off list and I'll explain to you some option. Josh From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 15 23:03:03 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:03:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Unrecognized service... Message-ID: <1076914553.26737.8.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> 1024/tcp open kdm Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 4 seconds Working on a wrappers problem on one of my server I found out this port is open on the other. What is it? From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 15 23:09:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:09:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Unrecognized service... In-Reply-To: <1076914553.26737.8.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076914553.26737.8.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20040216070808.GC3333@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 10:55:53PM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > 1024/tcp open kdm > Working on a wrappers problem on one of my server I found out this port > is open on the other. What is it? KDM, the KDE Display Manager. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMGxYUzgNqloQMwcRAhnrAJ9j3JBe7ZU4c8R5XPnlDjhxwjcp3ACgzcS5 GN3BOlsjKQIYCPdhOTyuLx4= =vRmO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 15 23:12:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:12:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076877990.6649.25.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076877990.6649.25.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040216071149.GD3333@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 12:46:31PM -0800, AthlonRob wrote: > I think google is as accurate as ever... Hopefully, Google figures out a way to identify Movable Text blogs and just drop them from the listing entirely, those stupid things are really starting to pollute Google. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMG01UzgNqloQMwcRAg0yAKDEJOg6iYL997f+INy8SlTxUmRKugCfXnOs 8eHNAH7U6leVvEblFsrA+8g= =7bgW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sun Feb 15 23:18:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Gentoo In-Reply-To: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> References: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> Message-ID: <1076915823.6650.125.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 22:38, Guy Noire wrote: > Anyone use Gentoo?? Yes. From lamsokvr at xprt.net Sun Feb 15 23:25:03 2004 From: lamsokvr at xprt.net (Guy Noire) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:25:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Gentoo In-Reply-To: <1076915823.6650.125.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> <1076915823.6650.125.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <200402160726.XAA17917@smtp.gssf.org> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:17:03 -0800 AthlonRob wrote: >On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 22:38, Guy Noire wrote: >> Anyone use Gentoo?? > >Yes. > > I was considering give it a shot... Any words of "Wisdom" TIA.. -- Marvin J. Kosmal Linux Activist Registered User # 88512 Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 Livng life 0001 day at a time. From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 15 23:27:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT counter-strike user/server information In-Reply-To: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040216072633.GE3333@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 12:00:34PM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > Every time he logs into a steam server he gets bombarded, real time, > with viruses. What evidence do you have of this? This is the first I've ever heard of this happening... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMHCpUzgNqloQMwcRAq88AKCfWrJraYDcPLywkiOPPFtRUaO95QCfftpg r5x4/fk6QHNm4BV/4og0fxQ= =Bp4e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 15 23:32:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 15 23:32:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 01:58:31PM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > rdate: got EOF from time server So? That's normal when you hit the end of any data stream successfully. > Googling, the only suggestion I've found is downgrading to inetd. inetd isn't a time server. The next line is EOF. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMHHrUzgNqloQMwcRAu/IAJ4tWBgYk1LlsK2CNIzlpy1ThHqjiACggEkJ D/NEY6nsMoTydkEVAXVB24E= =Zngl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dan at fiddlers-green.info Mon Feb 16 00:00:03 2004 From: dan at fiddlers-green.info (dan at fiddlers-green.info) Date: Mon Feb 16 00:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Gentoo In-Reply-To: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> References: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> Message-ID: <1076917409.403074a16e461@webmail.fiddlers-green.info> Quoting Guy Noire : > > > Anyone use Gentoo?? > > > > -- > Marvin J. Kosmal > Linux Activist > Registered User # 88512 > Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 > Livng life 0001 day at a time. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > I use Gentoo for my desktop, test box, and I am going to migrate my web/mailserver over from RH to Gentoo. I think its a great distro and the emerge package system works very well. Its great if you want to build a system without all the execess baggage you get in RH, Suse, et al. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From lamsokvr at xprt.net Mon Feb 16 00:04:01 2004 From: lamsokvr at xprt.net (Guy Noire) Date: Mon Feb 16 00:04:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Gentoo In-Reply-To: <1076917409.403074a16e461@webmail.fiddlers-green.info> References: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> <1076917409.403074a16e461@webmail.fiddlers-green.info> Message-ID: <200402160806.AAA18769@smtp.gssf.org> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:43:29 -0800 dan at fiddlers-green.info wrote: >Quoting Guy Noire : > >> >> >> Anyone use Gentoo?? >> >> >> > > >I use Gentoo for my desktop, test box, and I am going to migrate my >web/mailserver over from RH to Gentoo. I think its a great distro and the >emerge package system works very well. Its great if you want to build a system >without all the execess baggage you get in RH, Suse, et al. > > What is the easiest way to start??? Looking at the site.. There are two install CD's and a live CD. Is one way better then the other?? Easier/Harder TIA -- Marvin J. Kosmal Linux Activist Registered User # 88512 Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 Livng life 0001 day at a time. From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Mon Feb 16 00:17:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Mon Feb 16 00:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT counter-strike user/server information In-Reply-To: <20040216072633.GE3333@ursine.ca> References: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216072633.GE3333@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076919400.19194.2.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 23:26, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 12:00:34PM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > Every time he logs into a steam server he gets bombarded, real time, > > with viruses. > > What evidence do you have of this? This is the first I've ever heard > of this happening... I watched NAV freak out and lock him out. It repaired 2 or 3 instances, and then he was tossed for being unresponsive by the steam server. We did it a few times on different servers. I turned off NAV, we logged in and he played a few minutes. We logged off and I turned on NAV, it found viruses and fixed them. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Mon Feb 16 00:55:03 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Mon Feb 16 00:55:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Unrecognized service... In-Reply-To: <20040216070808.GC3333@ursine.ca> References: <1076914553.26737.8.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216070808.GC3333@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076921297.28008.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 23:08, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 10:55:53PM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > > 1024/tcp open kdm > > Working on a wrappers problem on one of my server I found out this port > > is open on the other. What is it? > > KDM, the KDE Display Manager. Odd, considering that X wasn't installed and that ps auxw shows this: [root at condor admin]# ps auxw USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND root 1 0.0 0.4 1372 280 ? S Jan30 0:00 init [3] root 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [keventd] root 3 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SWN Jan30 0:01 [ksoftirqd_CPU0] root 4 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:06 [kswapd] root 5 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [bdflush] root 6 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [kupdated] root 7 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [ahc_dv_0] root 8 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [scsi_eh_0] root 9 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [khubd] root 12 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW< Jan30 0:00 [mdrecoveryd] root 13 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW< Jan30 0:26 [raid5d] root 14 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW< Jan30 0:01 [raid5d] root 15 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [kjournald] root 162 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [kjournald] root 163 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [kjournald] root 164 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [kjournald] root 165 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:00 [kjournald] root 166 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? SW Jan30 0:54 [kjournald] rpc 636 0.0 0.5 1512 368 ? S Jan30 0:00 portmap rpcuser 664 0.0 0.7 1568 460 ? S Jan30 0:00 rpc.statd bind_int 778 0.0 2.6 3396 1660 ? S Jan30 0:02 /chroot/bind_int/usr/sbin/named -u bind_int -g bind_int -t /chroot/bi bind_ext 784 0.0 1.6 3156 1028 ? S Jan30 0:00 /chroot/bind_ext/usr/sbin/named -u bind_ext -g bind_ext -t /chroot/bi root 1741 0.0 0.6 3248 384 ? S Jan30 0:01 /usr/libexec/postfix/master postfix 1761 0.0 1.0 3388 656 ? S Jan30 0:00 nqmgr -l -n qmgr -t fifo -u -c root 1762 0.0 0.4 1400 252 ? S Jan30 0:01 gpm -t ps/2 -m /dev/mouse root 1790 0.0 2.1 4364 1348 ? S Jan30 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC root 1827 0.0 0.6 1556 428 ? S Jan30 0:00 crond root 1848 0.0 1.1 4528 684 ? S Jan30 0:00 smbd -D root 1853 0.0 0.9 3636 616 ? S Jan30 0:01 nmbd -D root 1871 0.0 0.9 4900 612 ? S Jan30 0:00 cupsd root 1901 0.0 3.0 4848 1916 ? S Jan30 0:01 /usr/bin/perl /etc/sysconfig/iptables/view_hosts_masqed.pl root 1904 0.0 0.9 2272 588 ? S Jan30 0:00 login -- root root 1905 0.0 0.0 1344 24 tty5 S Jan30 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty5 root 1906 0.0 0.0 1344 24 tty6 S Jan30 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty6 root 2122 0.0 0.3 2636 228 ? S Jan30 0:00 /usr/sbin/sshd root 2174 0.0 0.0 1344 24 tty3 S Jan30 0:00 /sbin/mingetty tty3 root 12847 0.0 1.6 2500 1024 tty4 S Feb14 0:00 -bash root 13796 0.0 1.2 1652 748 ? S Feb14 0:02 syslogd -m 0 -a /chroot/bind_int/dev/log -a /chroot/bind_ext/dev/log root 13801 0.0 0.7 1364 436 ? S Feb14 0:00 klogd -x apache 17366 0.0 2.8 4728 1740 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17367 0.0 2.6 4636 1648 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17368 0.0 2.4 4540 1500 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17369 0.0 2.4 4540 1500 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17372 0.0 2.4 4540 1500 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17373 0.0 2.4 4540 1500 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17374 0.0 2.6 4624 1652 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17375 0.0 2.8 4728 1740 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17376 0.0 2.6 4624 1652 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17377 0.0 2.8 4728 1740 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17378 0.0 2.4 4540 1500 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17379 0.0 2.4 4540 1500 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17380 0.0 2.3 4504 1444 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17381 0.0 2.3 4504 1444 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17382 0.0 2.3 4504 1444 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 17383 0.0 2.3 4504 1444 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC apache 20907 0.0 2.3 4504 1452 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/sbin/httpd -DHAVE_ACCESS -DHAVE_PROXY -DHAVE_AUTH_ANON -DHAVE_AC root 21225 0.0 5.2 4656 3248 ? S Feb15 0:00 /usr/bin/perl /etc/sysconfig/iptables/masqc-in.pl root 21673 0.0 1.5 2208 956 ? S Feb15 0:00 xinetd -stayalive -reuse -pidfile /var/run/xinetd.pid postfix 21693 0.0 1.7 3320 1096 ? S Feb15 0:00 pickup -l -t fifo -u -c root 21758 1.0 2.8 3496 1772 ? S 00:42 0:00 /usr/sbin/sshd admin 21759 0.1 2.1 2468 1304 pts/0 S 00:43 0:00 -bash root 21799 0.0 1.6 2332 1004 pts/0 S 00:43 0:00 su root 21800 0.0 2.2 2580 1404 pts/0 S 00:43 0:00 bash root 21832 0.0 1.1 2608 692 pts/0 R 00:43 0:00 ps aux the only way it can be kde is if this server is hacked... [root at condor admin]# rpm -qa | grep X [root at condor admin]# From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Mon Feb 16 01:15:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Mon Feb 16 01:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 23:31, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 01:58:31PM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > > rdate: got EOF from time server > > So? That's normal when you hit the end of any data stream > successfully. > > > Googling, the only suggestion I've found is downgrading to inetd. > > inetd isn't a time server. > > The next line is EOF. It turned out to be tcp wrappers. It's not obvious to me how to explicitly allow something xinetd calls an internal service without taking the this whole subnet is okay approach. Pursuing all is denied except that that is allowed, this is not a goof fix. If I filter with iptables, aren't tcp wrappers redundant? Trying rpm -qf as I usually do to track down documentation on hosts.allow and hosts.deny, that didn't get me anywhere. One concern I have is that having not migrated to Redhat 9 or something else more recent than 7.2 and 7.3, information online that I need will disappear. One think in particular I've run into a lot is Linux Journal articles reachable via google. It would be nice to get electronic copies of useful materials from when 7.x was still out for my own offline use. Maybe in the future what is really needed is continuous low level training and something like CVS to make my own private information repositories on Linux easy to maintain and update. This gets back to the personal documentation thread because the shreds nature of a lot of the information I pick up online is a pain to deal with. It's not exactly the most appealing help source to have to depend on. From dan at fiddlers-green.info Mon Feb 16 01:23:01 2004 From: dan at fiddlers-green.info (dan at fiddlers-green.info) Date: Mon Feb 16 01:23:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Gentoo Message-ID: <1076922429.4030883d9f1a1@webmail.fiddlers-green.info> Quoting Guy Noire : > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:43:29 -0800 > dan at fiddlers-green.info wrote: > > >Quoting Guy Noire : > > > >> > >> > >> Anyone use Gentoo?? > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >I use Gentoo for my desktop, test box, and I am going to migrate my > >web/mailserver over from RH to Gentoo. I think its a great distro and the > >emerge package system works very well. Its great if you want to build a > system > >without all the execess baggage you get in RH, Suse, et al. > > > > > What is the easiest way to start??? > > Looking at the site.. There are two install CD's and a live CD. > > Is one way better then the other?? Easier/Harder > > TIA > > > -- > Marvin J. Kosmal > Linux Activist > Registered User # 88512 > Brought to you by Libranet 2.8 > Livng life 0001 day at a time. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > The easiest way to get started is to download a gentoo liveCD image and burn it. This will contain pre-built packages. This will probably be the fastest install. I've never done things that way though, so I can't enlighten you about that road ahead. You only need one cd, and I've found their LiveCD the easiest way to go. I use a gentoo liveCD I burned last year, and just pull everything down over the net. As long as you have a dsl or cable connection everything goes pretty smoothly. The only drawback to gentoo is the footprint. I think it needs a gig or so of space. It might be the portage tree (the package management system), though I'm not really sure why. Anyway, I build the system from scratch, which is cool if you've never done it, but will take a long time on older systems. I built my test box (PII 400mhz, 128mb ram) and it took three days to go from a blank slate to a system running KDE 3.1. Mind you, KDE was the longest compile, about 30 hours or so. Also, their forums are pretty good. If I get into trouble I usually just search there and if I don't alredy find a thread, someone has always had an answer pretty quick. It seems from reading the docs that you only need more than one cd if your going to use pre-built packages of Gnome, KDE, Mozilla, etc. The initial liveCD will contain a gentoo environment from which you can do the install. Dan Herrington ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From dzl at frenetic.com Mon Feb 16 02:17:02 2004 From: dzl at frenetic.com (Daniel Logghe) Date: Mon Feb 16 02:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Unrecognized service... In-Reply-To: <1076921297.28008.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076914553.26737.8.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216070808.GC3333@ursine.ca> <1076921297.28008.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <4030985E.30407@frenetic.com> Darkhorse wrote: > Odd, considering that X wasn't installed and that ps auxw shows this: Instead of ps you might try netstat to figure out what process has the port open. Try running "netstat -lpt" From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 16 02:23:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 16 02:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <200402151447.19133.griffint@pobox.com> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> <200402151447.19133.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Terry Griffin wrote: > On Sunday 15 February 2004 2:13 pm, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > I remember once, years ago, when I doing techincal support, I was speaking > > with an elderly woman with very little computer experience and she said, > > "Please be patient with me, they didn't have this stuff in my day." > > > > I was FURIOUS. What does that mean, "in her day"? She's still ALIVE! > > There's no reason to ossify or fossilize or whatever. Just keep alert and > > alive and learning. > > > > Life is a process. When you stop growing, you stop living. > > Sheesh. How old are you? You should save your posting and then read it > it to yourself every ten years. One day you'll know what she meant by > "in her day." Well, that was ten years ago. I know plenty of people twice my age (and a couple two and half times!) who are active participants in the modern world and do not feel as though "their day" has passed. Your day ends when you let it. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 16 02:35:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 16 02:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] POTS and Data on same T1? In-Reply-To: <40300CFB.6080704@easystreet.com> References: <1076884049.23610.144.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <40300CFB.6080704@easystreet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Don Buchholz wrote: > Switch ports are expensive. [snip] > This means the same old AT&T ESS-5 switch can continue to manage > voice traffic without having to go through extensive upgrades. These days, there are lots of new and interesting options in the "soft switch" world. I've seen a Sun Ultra 10 that thought it was a DMS-500. I think the price per port is going to drop through the floor quite soon. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 16 02:42:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 16 02:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <20040216004142.E0839170@grayscale.canids> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> <20040216004142.E0839170@grayscale.canids> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Felix Lee wrote: > Jeme A Brelin : > > I was FURIOUS. What does that mean, "in her day"? She's still ALIVE! > > There's no reason to ossify or fossilize or whatever. Just keep alert and > > alive and learning. > > the simple fact is, the world is too large for one person to look at. > it takes obsessive attention to keep up with new developments in any > field of human endeavor. computers are a huge field, and frankly not > very interesting. I never paid much attention to computers in the first > place (I'm more of a compsci geek than a computer geek), and these days > I often resent the amount of effort it takes to simply "stay current" in > the narrow specialty I'm working in right now ("the unix world"). > there are many things I'd rather be doing instead, and many of them have > little to do with computers. Now, see, I totally understand and appreciate this. If she'd said something like, "I'm new to this" or "I haven't really used computers before", I'd've been fine with it. > someone using the phrase "back in my day" is probably joking. it's a > lighthearted acknowledgement that the world is changing faster than > anyone can keep up with, which makes everyone an ignorant fool from time > to time. If that were the case, it would never be anyone's day. We're all a bit behind in most fields of human endeavor and understanding and way behind in some, but that doesn't mean we get to stop learning once we reach puberty or even retirement. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From buchholz at easystreet.com Mon Feb 16 03:24:02 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Mon Feb 16 03:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <4030A81A.7010302@easystreet.com> Paul Johnson wrote: > > inetd isn't a time server. > Hmm? I thought most inetd implementations supported both the human-readable daytime (RFC-867; UDP and TCP ports 13) and time (RFC-868/STD-26; UDP and TCP ports 37) protocols. From buchholz at easystreet.com Mon Feb 16 03:36:02 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Mon Feb 16 03:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rpm uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH? References: <200402152158.49366.griffint@pobox.com> <20040216062528.GA20971@maybe.net> Message-ID: <4030AB07.40301@easystreet.com> Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 09:58:49PM -0800, Terry Griffin wrote: > >>>Does RPM even looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH for shared object libraries? >>>If not, is there another env variable I need to define? >>> >> >>I doubt very much that rpm would look at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. >> > > ld-linux.so actually looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. And you'll notice that > every single elf binary on your system is linked with this. ;-) So, > rpm has no choice, actually. > .... make sure the variable has been export'd to the environment. # LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/my_soft_dir is insufficient # export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/my_soft_dir works much better. I suspect that Zot may be right though. RPM is looking for the dependency in it's own database. Try "--force" or "--nodep" ... From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 06:01:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 06:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT counter-strike user/server information In-Reply-To: <1076919400.19194.2.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076875234.18467.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216072633.GE3333@ursine.ca> <1076919400.19194.2.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040216140027.GC10826@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 12:16:40AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > I watched NAV freak out and lock him out. It repaired 2 or 3 instances, > and then he was tossed for being unresponsive by the steam server. > > We did it a few times on different servers. > > I turned off NAV, we logged in and he played a few minutes. We logged > off and I turned on NAV, it found viruses and fixed them. Sounds like he should be more careful about which servers he's using. Hijacked server, perhaps? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMMz6UzgNqloQMwcRAiJSAKDD2iz3gzYQ20Zm8NcGGvb7/ZAh8wCfXe/o 588UxcCQrT25ADCRdKW3kcA= =mjmv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 06:02:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 06:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:07:55AM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > If I filter with iptables, aren't tcp wrappers > redundant? No, don't put all your eggs in one basket. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMM1IUzgNqloQMwcRAkccAJ9SrVZlqpz1M8mtlvHuZU/4UvdY7QCgykKQ EtzDW0ViC1A5lBJI303b4W4= =/KRt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 06:18:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 06:18:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) Message-ID: I bought all the components for a system from ENU and they run just fine. Until I try to add a second hard drive. I've exchanged the hard drive and the cable but the new drive is still not recognized by the BIOS. Initially, the original hard drive was on IDE bus 0 and the CD-ROM drive was on bus 1. When I bought the additional hard drive, I re-jumpered the original drives and put them both on IDE bus 0 (hard drive as master, cd-rom drive as slave). The original drive is a WD 60G model; the one I'm trying to add is a WD 80G model. The new drive is on the second IDE bus. I tried both positions on the cable; left the jumper off, placed it for master alone, placed it for cable select and it is just not recognized. In my naivety, there are only three components involved: the hard drive, the cable and the motherboard. I suppose that the replacement cable I tried ia also bad, but in 20 years of building systems I've not seen problems with new hardware and I've never had a bad cable. And, since the cdrom had been on IDE bus 1 and was used to install Slackware-9.1 I must assume that the system board is OK. I'm at a loss what to try. I'm thinking of hauling the box to my business lunch and stopping at ENU on the way back to the office afterwards. But, if someone here has some ideas, I'd really appreciate them. I would _really_ like to get this new drive working so I can complete the migration from the old machine to the new one. TIA, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From m at phxlinux.org Mon Feb 16 07:16:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Unrecognized service... In-Reply-To: <4030985E.30407@frenetic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Daniel Logghe wrote: > Darkhorse wrote: > > Odd, considering that X wasn't installed and that ps auxw shows this: > > Instead of ps you might try netstat to figure out what process has the > port open. Try running "netstat -lpt" That is, of course, unless the box was hacked and netstat was replaced with a version that doesn't list this particular process... From wcooley at nakedape.cc Mon Feb 16 07:38:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1076945827.13369.28.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 10:06, Bill Spears wrote: > So I was wondering, what kind of solutions have you come up with? > Anybody have their own man pages, info pages, html, doc book, spiral > notebookes (my choice), whatever? Let's talk. I try to keep my stuff on a Wiki: http://nakedape.cc/wiki Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 07:38:17 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:38:17 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Gentoo In-Reply-To: <200402160726.XAA17917@smtp.gssf.org> References: <200402160642.WAA16655@smtp.gssf.org> <1076915823.6650.125.camel@dell.linux.box> <200402160726.XAA17917@smtp.gssf.org> Message-ID: <1076945869.6653.128.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 23:22, Guy Noire wrote: > I was considering give it a shot... > > Any words of "Wisdom" I, personally, started from stage 1. Start it on a Friday afternoon if you can, and you should (assuming you have a reasonably powerful system) have a fully functional system by Sunday evening, with X and (if you want them) KDE and GNOME. I really like Portage. If you have multiple systems on your LAN running Linux capable of compiling things... set up distcc. Rob From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 07:41:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040216154023.GB12520@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 06:17:26AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > I bought all the components for a system from ENU and they run just fine. > Until I try to add a second hard drive. I've exchanged the hard drive and > the cable but the new drive is still not recognized by the BIOS. Are you setting the jumpers correctly? The drive on the end of the cable should be the first drive, set to Master, the drive on the middle connector should be the second drive, set to Slave. If they're both on their own cable, both should be set to Master. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMORnUzgNqloQMwcRApvbAKCAjGx1kqeB3vft0fkxCsyRnCN6GQCgsjXZ 9oYZsFn81oqDg4gt6iIwXlA= =AbZT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 07:44:03 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:44:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076946178.6653.132.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 06:17, Rich Shepard wrote: > The new drive is on the second IDE bus. I tried both positions on the > cable; left the jumper off, placed it for master alone, placed it for cable > select and it is just not recognized. What happens if you set the jumper for Master? What happens when it is the only drive in the box? Could the power connection be bad? I never jumper drives for Cable Select. In my experience, it doesn't work. Jumper for Master if there is a slave present, jumper for slave if it is the slave, or don't jumper it at all if it is alone, although I usually leave them jumpered for Master in that situation, anyway. Rob From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 07:47:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <4030A81A.7010302@easystreet.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <4030A81A.7010302@easystreet.com> Message-ID: <1076946397.6647.135.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 03:23, Don Buchholz wrote: > Paul Johnson wrote: > > > > inetd isn't a time server. > > > Hmm? I thought most inetd implementations supported both > the human-readable daytime (RFC-867; UDP and TCP ports 13) > and time (RFC-868/STD-26; UDP and TCP ports 37) protocols. Are they built in, though? inetd provides simple access to servers... it lets the servers operate on stdin and stdout. AFAIK, it doesn't provide any services, itself... that is simply not its job. Rob From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 16 07:48:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 06:01, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:07:55AM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > > If I filter with iptables, aren't tcp wrappers > > redundant? Yes > No, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Are you saying that iptables is not reliable and another access control mechanism should run in tandem? Ed From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 07:49:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: <20040216154851.GF12520@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:58:25AM -0800, Ed Sawicki wrote: > Are you saying that iptables is not reliable and another > access control mechanism should run in tandem? No, I'm saying humans are not reliable and another access control mechanism covers your ass. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMOZjUzgNqloQMwcRAksKAKCynYm4TVwz86YZOADQOZ6dTQY4CQCfbjYw wGcrlyIvfqKalE7lSThafOM= =OKTC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 16 07:50:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:50:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <4030A81A.7010302@easystreet.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <4030A81A.7010302@easystreet.com> Message-ID: <1076947233.1739.7075.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 03:23, Don Buchholz wrote: > Paul Johnson wrote: > > > > inetd isn't a time server. > > > Hmm? I thought most inetd implementations supported both > the human-readable daytime (RFC-867; UDP and TCP ports 13) > and time (RFC-868/STD-26; UDP and TCP ports 37) protocols. It does. So yes, it is a time server. However, its accuracy is plus or minus 1 second and its precision is to the second. You'd use ntp for greater accuracy and precision. Ed From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 16 07:53:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076946397.6647.135.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <4030A81A.7010302@easystreet.com> <1076946397.6647.135.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076947390.1739.7079.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:46, AthlonRob wrote: > On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 03:23, Don Buchholz wrote: > > Paul Johnson wrote: > > > > > > inetd isn't a time server. > > > > > Hmm? I thought most inetd implementations supported both > > the human-readable daytime (RFC-867; UDP and TCP ports 13) > > and time (RFC-868/STD-26; UDP and TCP ports 37) protocols. > > Are they built in, though? Yes, they are. > inetd provides simple access to servers... it lets the servers operate > on stdin and stdout. AFAIK, it doesn't provide any services, itself... > that is simply not its job. > > Rob From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 07:54:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <20040216154023.GB12520@ursine.ca> References: <20040216154023.GB12520@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > Are you setting the jumpers correctly? The drive on the end of the > cable should be the first drive, set to Master, the drive on the > middle connector should be the second drive, set to Slave. If they're > both on their own cable, both should be set to Master. Paul, First, my understanding is that the position on the cable matters only when the drive is set for 'cable select', otherwise not. Second, yes I had the jumper set for single/master on both cable connections and on cable select on both connectors. No life detected. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 07:54:16 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:54:16 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:58, Ed Sawicki wrote: > On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 06:01, Paul Johnson wrote: > > No, don't put all your eggs in one basket. > > Are you saying that iptables is not reliable and another > access control mechanism should run in tandem? I think it's always a good idea to have a second access control mechanism in place.... redundancy is good for security. If one level breaks down, there's a second level to hopefully hold back until SysAdmin comes along and fixes the first level. If we have such things, we set our car alarms after locking the car doors. Either one should be sufficient protection against intruders, yet we use both. In our homes, we usually lock all our doors and windows. Many, if not most, people also have some form of weapon near where they sleep... be it a baseball bat, a shotgun, a rifle, or a little snubnose revolver. In case the first layer of protection fails. :-) Rob From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 07:57:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 07:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <20040216154023.GB12520@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076947000.6649.143.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:53, Rich Shepard wrote: > First, my understanding is that the position on the cable matters only > when the drive is set for 'cable select', otherwise not. This changed with the advent of ATA-66. Now the position on the cable *does* matter. > Second, yes I had the jumper set for single/master on both cable > connections and on cable select on both connectors. No life detected. Again, I really never use cable select as I can't remember it ever working for me. I'm not sure if, since ATA/66 requires a special cable and cable positions, it is compatible with cable select or not. Rob From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 08:01:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1076946178.6653.132.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076946178.6653.132.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > What happens if you set the jumper for Master? Rob, This is the first thing I did. Not detected. > What happens when it is the only drive in the box? Don't know. I haven't tried this. > Could the power connection be bad? Let me quickly check .... Nope. Same results when on a different plug. > I never jumper drives for Cable Select. In my experience, it doesn't > work. Jumper for Master if there is a slave present, jumper for slave if > it is the slave, or don't jumper it at all if it is alone, although I > usually leave them jumpered for Master in that situation, anyway. I, too, have never used cable select. But, I've also not had a new drive not been recognized by the BIOS before. So, I tried everything I could think of to isolate the source of the problem. Guess it's back to ENU this afternoon. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 16 08:07:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:07:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <20040216154851.GF12520@ursine.ca> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <20040216154851.GF12520@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1076948205.1739.7107.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:48, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:58:25AM -0800, Ed Sawicki wrote: > > Are you saying that iptables is not reliable and another > > access control mechanism should run in tandem? > > No, I'm saying humans are not reliable and another access control > mechanism covers your ass. I guess you pick your poison. I try to simplify my systems as much as possible to minimize complexity. I wouldn't have redundant functions that offer no benefit other than to protect against human mistakes because the increased complexity may cause human mistakes. In the case of access control, mistakes can be detected early with testing. Ed From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 08:10:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <20040216154023.GB12520@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040216160915.GG12520@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:53:30AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > First, my understanding is that the position on the cable matters only > when the drive is set for 'cable select', otherwise not. This has not been my experience. > Second, yes I had the jumper set for single/master on both cable > connections and on cable select on both connectors. No life detected. Single is aka cable select. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMOsrUzgNqloQMwcRAoWMAJwKdtK4r4tHJO6x/45adJGNczb7KACguc+y UtNA4pNsHbXTCV4Ql4MlbYE= =8Bht -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 08:10:17 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:10:17 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1076947000.6649.143.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040216154023.GB12520@ursine.ca> <1076947000.6649.143.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > This changed with the advent of ATA-66. Now the position on the cable > *does* matter. Oh. OK. > Again, I really never use cable select as I can't remember it ever working > for me. I'm not sure if, since ATA/66 requires a special cable and cable > positions, it is compatible with cable select or not. The original cable was one of the new, round ones. That would probably have been the correct type. Well, I'll ask the vendor to help me resolve the problem. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 08:12:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:12:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076948205.1739.7107.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <20040216154851.GF12520@ursine.ca> <1076948205.1739.7107.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: <20040216161123.GH12520@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 08:16:45AM -0800, Ed Sawicki wrote: > I guess you pick your poison. I try to simplify my systems as > much as possible to minimize complexity. I wouldn't have redundant > functions that offer no benefit other than to protect against > human mistakes because the increased complexity may cause human > mistakes. Generally, the way I do it is I flush iptables, do what I need to do, then recheck what ports I need, then reset iptables. Dual layers of protection, just in case something prevents iptables from getting run. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMOurUzgNqloQMwcRAvOPAKDFdsD/0jKFqB+UHmWjIOWVfBM5pQCfQSVq 6TTtzxp3ZYNvOd3T33LPsUo= =B+Ci -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kyle at silverbeach.net Mon Feb 16 08:36:02 2004 From: kyle at silverbeach.net (Kyle Hayes) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <1076947000.6649.143.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <200402160835.19305.kyle@silverbeach.net> On Monday 16 February 2004 08:09, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > > This changed with the advent of ATA-66. Now the position on the > > cable *does* matter. > > Oh. OK. > > > Again, I really never use cable select as I can't remember it > > ever working for me. I'm not sure if, since ATA/66 requires a > > special cable and cable positions, it is compatible with cable > > select or not. > > The original cable was one of the new, round ones. That would > probably have been the correct type. > > Well, I'll ask the vendor to help me resolve the problem. I had to both set the jumpers correctly _AND_ put the drives in the "correct" position on the cable. In my case the cable was actually labelled so this wasn't too much of a chore. Still, it was a new thing to me. I'm still not sure I did something wrong. I put two drives on the primary chain and the CD as master on the secondary chain. That seemed to make the BIOS happier than any other combination I tried. Operator error is still a large possibility for me :-) Best, Kyle From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 16 08:37:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076950033.1739.7167.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:53, AthlonRob wrote: > On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:58, Ed Sawicki wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 06:01, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > > No, don't put all your eggs in one basket. > > > > Are you saying that iptables is not reliable and another > > access control mechanism should run in tandem? > > I think it's always a good idea to have a second access control > mechanism in place.... redundancy is good for security. If one level > breaks down, there's a second level to hopefully hold back until > SysAdmin comes along and fixes the first level. > > If we have such things, we set our car alarms after locking the car > doors. Either one should be sufficient protection against intruders, > yet we use both. This analogy doesn't work for me for a few reasons. 1.Automobile versus computer analogies almost never provide an apples to apples comparison. This one is such an example. 2.Car door locks and alarm systems have different functions. An alarm system does not protect against intruders in the same way that door locks do whereas iptables and TCP wrappers do perform (essentially) the same functionality. 3.You use an alarm system because you know the car door locks are not reliable. They can be defeated by relatively unskilled attackers. Iptables is far more reliable than car door locks and does not need to operate in tandem with duplicated functionality. 4.The operator of the vehicle can forget to lock the doors during normal operation. Once you give iptables a rule, it doesn't forget during normal operation. > In our homes, we usually lock all our doors and windows. Many, if not > most, people also have some form of weapon near where they sleep... be > it a baseball bat, a shotgun, a rifle, or a little snubnose revolver. > In case the first layer of protection fails. :-) Again, you're using examples of devices that have different functionality. You use the weapons only after (and because) the locks have failed. Ed From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 08:56:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 08:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <200402160835.19305.kyle@silverbeach.net> References: <1076947000.6649.143.camel@dell.linux.box> <200402160835.19305.kyle@silverbeach.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Kyle Hayes wrote: > I had to both set the jumpers correctly _AND_ put the drives in the > "correct" position on the cable. In my case the cable was actually > labelled so this wasn't too much of a chore. Still, it was a new thing to > me. I'm still not sure I did something wrong. Kyle, This was the first thing I tried. > I put two drives on the primary chain and the CD as master on the > secondary chain. That seemed to make the BIOS happier than any other > combination I tried. On all my prior systems, I'd put the hard drives on the first bus and the cdrom on the second bus. Recently, I read that one speed optimization for the comparatively slow speeds of EIDE drives was to put them on separate buses. That way access to one would not be related to access of another. Made sense to me, even though this new box is not a heavily-loaded or used server. Regardless, it should work. Sigh, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From griffint at pobox.com Mon Feb 16 09:20:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Mon Feb 16 09:20:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rpm uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH? In-Reply-To: <20040216062528.GA20971@maybe.net> References: <200402152158.49366.griffint@pobox.com> <20040216062528.GA20971@maybe.net> Message-ID: <200402160919.50016.griffint@pobox.com> On Sunday 15 February 2004 10:25 pm, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 09:58:49PM -0800, Terry Griffin wrote: > > > Does RPM even looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH for shared object libraries? > > > If not, is there another env variable I need to define? > > > > > > thanks for any pointer. > > > > I doubt very much that rpm would look at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. > > Ahem. > > ld-linux.so actually looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. And you'll notice that > every single elf binary on your system is linked with this. ;-) So, > rpm has no choice, actually. > Well, we may have a communication mix up. Yes, the rpm binary itself uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH. But it doesn't use LD_LIBRARY_PATH to verify library dependencies of packages being installed. That's what I meant, which is what I understood the original question to be. Terry From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Mon Feb 16 09:28:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Mon Feb 16 09:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 06:17, Rich Shepard wrote: > drive as slave). The original drive is a WD 60G model; the one I'm trying to > add is a WD 80G model. WD is very weird about jumpers. IIRC, two WD on the same channel will auto negotiate. A single WD on a cable doesn't like any jumpers at all. A WD with something else needs the jumper, most of the time. If I were you, I'd try unconventional things, like above, to see what I can get going. I'd work one channel at a time. At the risk of being far too basic, and only because I hadn't seen it listed here recently, I'll mention that many systems will not boot if the pin 1 stripe is not oriented toward the power connector on the IDE device. Does the new drive recognize correctly under any circumstance? CSFO is closing their doors, BTW. Should be this month some time. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 09:37:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 09:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Mike De La Mater wrote: > IIRC, two WD on the same channel will auto negotiate. A single WD on a > cable doesn't like any jumpers at all. A WD with something else needs the > jumper, most of the time. > If I were you, I'd try unconventional things, like above, to see what I > can get going. I'd work one channel at a time. Mike, I tried the new drive with no jumper. > At the risk of being far too basic, and only because I hadn't seen it > listed here recently, I'll mention that many systems will not boot if the > pin 1 stripe is not oriented toward the power connector on the IDE device. There is no way to easily miss this: the plugs have two, small ridges in the center of one side; the socket has a notch in the center of one side. Ridges go into notch. This is on both the drives and the system board. > Does the new drive recognize correctly under any circumstance? Nope. > CSFO is closing their doors, BTW. Should be this month some time. Who's this? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 10:16:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 10:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076950033.1739.7167.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076950033.1739.7167.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: <20040216181526.GK12520@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 08:47:14AM -0800, Ed Sawicki wrote: > 2.Car door locks and alarm systems have different functions. An > alarm system does not protect against intruders in the same > way that door locks do whereas iptables and TCP wrappers do > perform (essentially) the same functionality. OK, door locks and ignition switch gives you two layers of protection against starting the car. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMQi+UzgNqloQMwcRAlDaAJ9yUd2pB+Jv2JZE2scYu7SSZ3xWrwCfdDE5 MjPrEE1ahKIhQsFD0lUd8fo= =+6/f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 16 11:01:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 16 11:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] unicode problem with Postgresql and Perl DBD::Pg Message-ID: <86y8r2etnt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> For some random email messages, as I stuff them into a Postgresql table's text field via Perl DBD::Pg, I get a message along the lines of: DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: Unicode characters greater than or equal to 0x10000 are not supported at ... or: DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: invalid byte sequence for encoding "UNICODE": 0xef662e at ... The execute is of a prepared "INSERT INTO ..." expression. >From psql land, a \l shows me: List of databases Name | Owner | Encoding -----------+----------+---------- mydb | russell | UNICODE The email body contains some circumflected character or another. Me caveman. How make work? -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From cccs at teleport.com Mon Feb 16 11:32:02 2004 From: cccs at teleport.com (Rick Konold) Date: Mon Feb 16 11:32:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: On Monday 16 February 2004 09:36, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > IIRC, two WD on the same channel will auto negotiate. A single WD on a > > cable doesn't like any jumpers at all. A WD with something else needs the > > jumper, most of the time. > > > > If I were you, I'd try unconventional things, like above, to see what I > > can get going. I'd work one channel at a time. > > Mike, > > I tried the new drive with no jumper. > > > At the risk of being far too basic, and only because I hadn't seen it > > listed here recently, I'll mention that many systems will not boot if the > > pin 1 stripe is not oriented toward the power connector on the IDE > > device. > > There is no way to easily miss this: the plugs have two, small ridges in > the center of one side; the socket has a notch in the center of one side. > Ridges go into notch. This is on both the drives and the system board. > > > Does the new drive recognize correctly under any circumstance? > > Nope. > > > CSFO is closing their doors, BTW. Should be this month some time. > > Who's this? > > Rich I have seen this "not recognised" problem on systems where the BIOS has been set to "none" instead of "auto". Have you checked BIOS settings? Rick From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 11:33:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 11:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <1076946178.6653.132.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076959963.6650.146.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:59, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > > > What happens when it is the only drive in the box? > > Don't know. I haven't tried this. Try this, please. It will at least tell us a little bit. If it works in a single drive setup, set up *exactly* as your known-good drive, then it is simply a configuration error somewhere along the line. If it does *not* work, set up exactly as the known-good drive is set up, then we can safely assume there is a hardware-level compatibility or failure issue. Rob From barryb at proaxis.com Mon Feb 16 11:42:02 2004 From: barryb at proaxis.com (Bill Barry) Date: Mon Feb 16 11:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040216194050.GA24190@edge> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 06:17:26AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > I bought all the components for a system from ENU and they run just fine. > Until I try to add a second hard drive. I've exchanged the hard drive and > the cable but the new drive is still not recognized by the BIOS. > Ok, it is not recognized by the bios, but is it recognized by the linux kernel during boot? This may be just a limitation of the bios that does not concern you. Bill Barry From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 16 12:09:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 16 12:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 09:27:20AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > IIRC, two WD on the same channel will auto negotiate. A single WD on a > cable doesn't like any jumpers at all. A WD with something else needs > the jumper, most of the time. I only use WD drives now, and they work like every other brand I've used in the past. Master if it's the only or first drive, Slave if it's not. If it doesn't work like that, you might have a bad drive. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMSNEUzgNqloQMwcRAh8pAJ9t9dS98rkbW0H6gwrfBuAvbaSZ/ACfYAjk p5wJIHHV6aixAL36SbBXC1Y= =HiMU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From beattie at beattie-home.net Mon Feb 16 13:01:01 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Mon Feb 16 13:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] return to sender Message-ID: <1076965223.1176.40.camel@kokopelli> I'm wondering if there is an easy way to set up procmail to send email back to the sender, sort of a "Return to Sender" thing? -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto From felix.1 at canids.net Mon Feb 16 13:54:03 2004 From: felix.1 at canids.net (Felix Lee) Date: Mon Feb 16 13:54:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> on Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:53:47 PST from AthlonRob References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040216215322.3B739170@grayscale.canids> AthlonRob : > I think it's always a good idea to have a second access control > mechanism in place.... redundancy is good for security. If one level > breaks down, there's a second level to hopefully hold back until > SysAdmin comes along and fixes the first level. this is a false analogy because you're trying to apply analog-world reasoning to the digital world. in the analog world you can analyze things in terms of percentage reliability. "this mechanism will work 99% of the time, and when that fails, this backup mechanism will work 99% of the time, therefore the total reliability is (1 - (.01 * .01)) = 99.99%". that type of reasoning works because failures are not systematic, they're just a result of factors that are basically "random", and you can treat the failures as independent events. that doesn't work in the digital world, because anything in the digital realm is perfectly reproducible (which is why people find it useful), and it's pass/fail. a security mechanism is 100% reliable until a flaw is discovered, which makes it 0% reliable. one hedge against the pass/fail problem is "the chance that someone will try to target you in particular", which leads to rules of thumb like, "don't make enemies", "keep a low profile", "be a harder target than your neighbors", etc. all those rules are basically useless for computers, because of automated attacks. on the internet, it isn't that hard to send out self-replicating programs that will search and attack anything that has a particular flaw. there isn't an equivalent in the analog world. it isn't possible for me to create a butterfly that will a) create more butterflies, b) spread across the world quickly, c) disable all Lexus door locks. another hedge against the pass/fail problem is "the chance that a previously unknown flaw will be discovered". and the best way to reduce that chance is to keep the mechanisms simple and easy to understand. in the digital realm, having two locks is worse than having one lock, because you have to divide your effort into proving both locks are secure and proving that the combination of the two is also secure. the more effort it takes for you to do an analysis of security, the greater the chance that there's a flaw or a condition you overlooked. it's better to concentrate all your attention on just one simple lock, whenever you can. -- From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 16 14:12:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 16 14:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] rpm uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH? In-Reply-To: <200402160919.50016.griffint@pobox.com> References: <200402152158.49366.griffint@pobox.com> <20040216062528.GA20971@maybe.net> <200402160919.50016.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040216221156.GB20971@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 09:19:50AM -0800, Terry Griffin wrote: > > > I doubt very much that rpm would look at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. > > > > Ahem. > > > > ld-linux.so actually looks at LD_LIBRARY_PATH. And you'll notice that > > every single elf binary on your system is linked with this. ;-) So, > > rpm has no choice, actually. > > > > Well, we may have a communication mix up. Yes, the rpm binary itself > uses LD_LIBRARY_PATH. But it doesn't use LD_LIBRARY_PATH to verify > library dependencies of packages being installed. That's what I meant, > which is what I understood the original question to be. Ah. Serves me right for skimming one message in the middle of dozens of others. I'm sure, then, in that context that neither that, nor ld.so.conf is supported. Specifically, I would "agree" in the sense that any binary package manager presently available will only claim that library dependencies are met by whether they themselves are packaged and depended on by the package you want to install. If you force, or if the package is poorly built, there's no guarantee the installed package will work. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 16 14:15:03 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 16 14:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] unicode problem with Postgresql and Perl DBD::Pg In-Reply-To: <86y8r2etnt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86y8r2etnt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <20040216221455.GC20971@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 11:00:38AM -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > For some random email messages, as I stuff them into a Postgresql > table's text field via Perl DBD::Pg, I get a message along the lines > of: > > DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: Unicode characters greater > than or equal to 0x10000 are not supported at ... > [..] > > The email body contains some circumflected character or another. > > Me caveman. How make work? Without details, I'd suggest explicitly specifying the character set of the data while inserting into the database. It looks like it has guessed that you're trying to give it 32-bit Unicode, which very few apps support. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 14:23:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 14:23:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <20040216215322.3B739170@grayscale.canids> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040216215322.3B739170@grayscale.canids> Message-ID: <1076970148.6667.155.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 13:53, Felix Lee wrote: > that doesn't work in the digital world, because anything in the > digital realm is perfectly reproducible (which is why people find > it useful), and it's pass/fail. a security mechanism is 100% > reliable until a flaw is discovered, which makes it 0% reliable. I think things aren't as hard-and-fast as that. The code is very complex. I can assure you, there *are* some IPTables vulnerabilities out there. There *are* some SSH vulnerabilities out there. There *are* some Postfix/inn/whatever else vulnerabilities out there. We just aren't aware of them yet because they haven't been discovered. Does this mean Windows was 100% reliable up until the first security flaw was discovered? I think not. I think the OS was insecure before, we just didn't realize it. I wouldn't call any piece of software 100% secure. It defies logic that something could be 100% reliably secure one moment, then completely insecure the next moment simply because of one individual gaining knowledge. Rob From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Mon Feb 16 14:47:01 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Mon Feb 16 14:47:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <30994-96977@sneakemail.com> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Bill Spears bspears-at-easystreet.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > I like Linux, in fact, I love it. But dammmn, there are a lot of things > to do and know, and man pages are usually useful only if you just need a > reminder for some option name. For example, it is pretty hard to figure > out cdrecord from it's man pages, although it can be done. Spiral notebooks for jotting notes and info as I'm working on something. Text files for summarizing these notes into something I hope to understand several months from now. Scripts if those notes distill down to a particularly nasty command line. (mkisofs and cdrecord are two good ones.) CVS to store the revisions I make to those files so I don't have to worry about overwriting something that turns out to be important later on. The greatest thing about text files are their compatibility. Lots of tools are available to read/search/convert/change them. The worst thing is the lack of any advanced formatting. (Fortunately, since they are notes to myself, they don't have to be pretty.) -- Steve From ehem at m5p.com Mon Feb 16 15:02:02 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Mon Feb 16 15:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <20040216215403.24439.29081.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <200402162301.i1GN1NYR059551@m5p.com> > From: Rich Shepard > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Kyle Hayes wrote: > > I put two drives on the primary chain and the CD as master on the > > secondary chain. That seemed to make the BIOS happier than any other > > combination I tried. > > On all my prior systems, I'd put the hard drives on the first bus and the > cdrom on the second bus. Recently, I read that one speed optimization for > the comparatively slow speeds of EIDE drives was to put them on separate > buses. That way access to one would not be related to access of another. > Made sense to me, even though this new box is not a heavily-loaded or used > server. Regardless, it should work. The theory is sound, but then other issues intrude. The first is very few single drives are capable of saturating even an ATA66 bus, let alone ATA100 or ATA133 (okay last report is over a year old at this point); so combining drives on a fast controller/cable likely won't hurt. A much larger kink in this is that most CD and DVD readers and writers are at best capable of handling ATA33. As a result keeping the hard disks separate from each other, but combining one with an optical will likely damage performance on that drive (many modern drives are capable of saturating ATA33 and then some). > From: Rick Konold > I have seen this "not recognised" problem on systems where the BIOS has been > set to "none" instead of "auto". Have you checked BIOS settings? > From: AthlonRob > On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:59, Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > > > > > What happens when it is the only drive in the box? > > > > Don't know. I haven't tried this. > > Try this, please. It will at least tell us a little bit. If it works > in a single drive setup, set up *exactly* as your known-good drive, then > it is simply a configuration error somewhere along the line. If it does > *not* work, set up exactly as the known-good drive is set up, then we > can safely assume there is a hardware-level compatibility or failure > issue. Both of these are very likely issues, or will provide information, try them. Though not deeply entwined in issues specific to Linux or flavors of Unix, this is really off topic? -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 16 15:07:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 16 15:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] unicode problem with Postgresql and Perl DBD::Pg In-Reply-To: <20040216221455.GC20971@maybe.net> References: <86y8r2etnt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <20040216221455.GC20971@maybe.net> Message-ID: <86r7wud3pv.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Jantzen writes: Russell> For some random email messages, as I stuff them into a Russell> Postgresql table's text field via Perl DBD::Pg, I get a Russell> message along the lines of: Russell> DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR: Unicode characters greater Russell> than or equal to 0x10000 are not supported at ... Russell> [...] Russell> The email body contains some circumflected character or Russell> another. Russell> Me caveman. How make work? Chris> Without details, I'd suggest explicitly specifying the Chris> character set of the data while inserting into the database. It Chris> looks like it has guessed that you're trying to give it 32-bit Chris> Unicode, which very few apps support. Can I specify the character set on a row-by-row basis? It looks like not. In the corpus I am looking at, I see a wide variety of content-type headers: text/plain; charset=us-ascii text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 text/plain; charset=iso-8859-5 text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 etc. One message in particular is labeled with iso-8859-1 and contains "J?rg" in the body, the second character of which appears as 0xf6 in the mbox file. Which encoding should I use and how do I specify it? I am a Postgresql and DBD::Pg neophyte, if that isn't obvious already. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From felix.1 at canids.net Mon Feb 16 16:15:03 2004 From: felix.1 at canids.net (Felix Lee) Date: Mon Feb 16 16:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: on Mon, 16 Feb 2004 02:41:40 PST from Jeme A Brelin References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040215185612.GJ5523@ursine.ca> <20040215135514.74db560d@downtown> <20040216004142.E0839170@grayscale.canids> Message-ID: <20040217001429.96F55170@grayscale.canids> Jeme A Brelin : > > someone using the phrase "back in my day" is probably joking. it's a > > lighthearted acknowledgement that the world is changing faster than > > anyone can keep up with, which makes everyone an ignorant fool from time > > to time. > If that were the case, it would never be anyone's day. yes, it's never anyone's day. young people think they're close to knowing everything they need to know. old people are not so sure. this is a gross generalization, of course. > We're all a bit behind in most fields of human endeavor and understanding > and way behind in some, but that doesn't mean we get to stop learning once > we reach puberty or even retirement. I'm not saying I'm going to stop learning sometime, and I doubt the woman you were talking to was saying that either. "back in my day" is kind of a shorthand way for people to set expectations and defuse awkwardness. if I say something like "back in my day, we didn't have graphing calculators", it means I learned how to solve problems without them, I haven't learned how to solve problems with them, it hasn't seemed important yet to learn anything about them. so if you use a graphing calculator to show me something, what you do might not make any sense to me, because the connection between how you do things and how I do things might not be obvious, and your idea of what's "simple" or "obvious" might be completely different from mine, so you'll have to be patient with me. this type of interpersonal interaction goes against a cultural schema of "older = wiser", which could be awkward if I project a message like "you're too young to explain anything to me" or you project a message like "you should know this already" or other such implicit messages. fortunately, there's an opposite cultural schema, "old dinosaur", which lets you relax in a role of superior knowledge, and I don't mind being in the dinosaur role for the purposes of this interaction. there are certainly problems with following the dinosaur schema too literally. I could have said something like "talk to me like I'm 6 years old", but that has its own set of problems. so let's assume we're both reasonable people and can get through this awkward inequality without too much fuss. and if I have to consciously analyze all this and explain it in detail, then I'm being condescending by not acknowledging your own awareness of this situation we're in, so instead I've pulled out a semi-automatic dinosaur cliche to get past this. it's like flirting. -- From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 16 16:37:01 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 16 16:37:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] unicode problem with Postgresql and Perl DBD::Pg In-Reply-To: <86r7wud3pv.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86y8r2etnt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <20040216221455.GC20971@maybe.net> <86r7wud3pv.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <861xouczj9.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Russell" == Russell Senior writes: Russell> One message in particular is labeled with iso-8859-1 and Russell> contains "J?rg" in the body, the second character of which Russell> appears as 0xf6 in the mbox file. Russell> Which encoding should I use and how do I specify it? I am a Russell> Postgresql and DBD::Pg neophyte, if that isn't obvious Russell> already. Ah. Evidently, what I needed was to create the database with something like: create database foo with encoding = 'SQL_ASCII'; Seems to have fixed it. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From bmdimaculangan at bhpi.com.ph Mon Feb 16 17:03:02 2004 From: bmdimaculangan at bhpi.com.ph (Billy Dimaculangan) Date: Mon Feb 16 17:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] migrating email user accounts Message-ID: hi, i am currently working on our new mail server, how do i transfer all email users form our old box to the new one.. what files do i need to copy, and anyone who can give documents or procedures for these? BTW, our old box is a rh7.2 running postfix and our new one is rh9 running postfix also. thanks, Billy From pem at nellump.net Mon Feb 16 17:03:16 2004 From: pem at nellump.net (Paul Mullen) Date: Mon Feb 16 17:03:16 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <864qtsovy3.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> <864qtsovy3.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <20040217010145.GC10305@nellump.net> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 01:48:52PM -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > > Of course, in the context of Linux/Unix problems there are no > reference librarians standing by. Sure there are. Most of us on this list comprise a sort of distributed reference desk for Linux/Unix users. Of course, at our little reference desk occasionally the librarians engage in all-out brawls, pulling hair and hurling office equipment, while the patrons stand by quietly gaping... But it usually works out pretty well in the end. :-) Paul From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 17:06:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 17:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Personal Documentation In-Reply-To: <20040217010145.GC10305@nellump.net> References: <1076868404.13677.9.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1076869126.6653.11.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076876825.13677.16.camel@apollo.spears.org> <864qtsovy3.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <20040217010145.GC10305@nellump.net> Message-ID: <1076979950.6659.179.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 17:01, Paul Mullen wrote: > Most of us on this list comprise a sort of distributed > reference desk for Linux/Unix users. Distributed computing at its finest? :-) Rob From raanders at acm.org Mon Feb 16 17:12:02 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Mon Feb 16 17:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] SOT: Personal Router and CISCO switches Message-ID: I've been running it to this problem and don't have the financial resources to sort it out. Hopefully someone here can point me in the rightdirection. I've discovered that the personal firewalls' uplink port won't sync with some CISCO 2900 and 3500 Enterprise switches. Tried all the regular tricks (cross-over cable, tested cables, etc.) but but the only way is to go through a 'cheap' hub or switch then to the CISCO switch. I think I can lay my hands on a new LinkSys DSL/Router but if anyone has a better idea I'm open. BTW, the reason I'm doing this is so individual offices in a building/complex are firewalled from each other (and the world) but using the same big pipe. Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From felix.1 at canids.net Mon Feb 16 17:59:02 2004 From: felix.1 at canids.net (Felix Lee) Date: Mon Feb 16 17:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076970148.6667.155.camel@dell.linux.box> on Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:22:29 PST from AthlonRob References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040216215322.3B739170@grayscale.canids> <1076970148.6667.155.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040217015809.F3A2A170@grayscale.canids> AthlonRob : > Does this mean Windows was 100% reliable up until the first > security flaw was discovered? I think not. I think the OS was > insecure before, we just didn't realize it. sorry, I was sloppy for the sake of simplicity. the word "reliable" is too vague to be useful in this case, and you're using a different meaning of the word than I intended. what I meant was something like, "what's the probability that someone can penetrate your security barrier right now?" it's close to 0% if there are no exploits known by anyone. it's 100% if someone does know an exploit. this doesn't sound like a very useful statement, because it doesn't seem like some secretive malicious agent would care about penetrating your security, but a computer has value independent of it being _your_ computer, and someone can want access to your computer without necessarily knowing whose computer it is. the chances of that are not small, because it's easy to automate attacks, because computers are a type of universal machine. perhaps a more useful statement is the chance that a malicious agent has bypassed a network security mechanism on your computer before anyone has discovered any exploitable flaws in the mechanism is 0%. the chance that a malicious agent has bypassed a network security mechanism on your computer after someone has discovered an exploitable flaw in the mechanism approaches 100% very quickly, because of automated attacks. -- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 18:00:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1076959963.6650.146.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076946178.6653.132.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076959963.6650.146.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > Try this, please. It will at least tell us a little bit. If it works in > a single drive setup, set up *exactly* as your known-good drive, then it > is simply a configuration error somewhere along the line. If it does > *not* work, set up exactly as the known-good drive is set up, then we > can safely assume there is a hardware-level compatibility or failure > issue. Rob, Still haven't yet tried this. But, I was told by the folks at ENU that only the primary IDE bus on the MSI KT3 system board supports ultra-DMA, so both drives need to be there. Took everything out and checked jumpers. Original hard drive on bus0, master (and jumped as such). New hard drive on bus0, slave (and jumped as such). CD-ROM drive on bus1, master (and jumped as that). Turn on the box and no drive is recognized. ARRRGGHH-H-H-H! I've not had this problem ever before. Later, perhaps tomorrow, I'll unplug the cdrom and the old drive, rejump the new one as a master and see what it does on the end of the cable. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 18:01:05 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:01:05 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <20040216194050.GA24190@edge> References: <20040216194050.GA24190@edge> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Bill Barry wrote: > Ok, it is not recognized by the bios, but is it recognized by the linux > kernel during boot? This may be just a limitation of the bios that does > not concern you. No. Can't run cfdisk on it. The system board/BIOS are about 1.5 years old. They should support drives of this size. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 18:03:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Rick Konold wrote: > I have seen this "not recognised" problem on systems where the BIOS has been > set to "none" instead of "auto". Have you checked BIOS settings? Rick, Are you referring to the BIOS settings for the drives? By default they are on "auto". The original drive was recognized and so was the cdrom. When I put the new drive on the system it all falls apart. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 18:03:19 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:03:19 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > I only use WD drives now, and they work like every other brand I've > used in the past. Master if it's the only or first drive, Slave if > it's not. If it doesn't work like that, you might have a bad drive. That's what I thought last week. Exchanged drives. Tried two different cables. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Mon Feb 16 18:14:01 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:14:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Laptop screen backlight problem Message-ID: <1076983927.12274.5.camel@timmy> I just got my hands on an old IBM Thinkpad 600E. It has partnumber 2645-4AU. For a few days, it was working quite well. It was slow, but working. But now the screen is becoming very unreliable. The LCD itself is not having any difficulty, just the backlight. It will turn on for a half a second, then immediately turn off again. When it for some reason decides to stay on for a short while, the backlight flashes very fast and the brightness slider on the screen has no effect. What are your ideas for what this problem is a symptom of and how to go about fixing it? Thanks for any information, Evan From jack at endofhistory.com Mon Feb 16 18:15:03 2004 From: jack at endofhistory.com (jm) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] return to sender In-Reply-To: <1076965223.1176.40.camel@kokopelli> References: <1076965223.1176.40.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: <20040217021400.GA14253@quench.endofhistory.com> begin electrogrammati illius Brian Beattie > I'm wondering if there is an easy way to set up procmail to send email > back to the sender, sort of a "Return to Sender" thing? Seems to be a way to do it here, look for "The right way to bounce"... http://www.eden.net.nz/7/20011101pairprocmail.html but... take care, since much undesired mail one may want to bounce (spam, MS-viruses) is overwhelmingly sporting forged headers and bouncing same may just annoy some innocent bystander. -- NP: $HOME/music/Tom_T_Hall_-_I_Like_Beer.mp3 From AthlonRob at axpr.net Mon Feb 16 18:30:03 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:30:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <20040217015809.F3A2A170@grayscale.canids> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040216215322.3B739170@grayscale.canids> <1076970148.6667.155.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040217015809.F3A2A170@grayscale.canids> Message-ID: <1076984951.6659.182.camel@dell.linux.box> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 17:58, Felix Lee wrote: > the chance that a malicious agent has bypassed a network > security mechanism on your computer before anyone has > discovered any exploitable flaws in the mechanism is 0%. > > the chance that a malicious agent has bypassed a network > security mechanism on your computer after someone has > discovered an exploitable flaw in the mechanism approaches > 100% very quickly, because of automated attacks. I still think that is over qualified... The chance that a malicious agent *can* bypass a network security mechanism on your computer before an exploitable flaw in the mechanism is known to you is much higher than 0%. Rob From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 16 18:52:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:07:55AM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > > If I filter with iptables, aren't tcp wrappers > > redundant? > > No, don't put all your eggs in one basket. As I believe Mark Twain once wrote, "Put all your eggs in one basket... AND WATCH THAT BASKET!" iptables can do everything tcpwrappers do if you write the rules carefully. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 16 19:00:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 16 19:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > I think it's always a good idea to have a second access control > mechanism in place.... redundancy is good for security. If one level > breaks down, there's a second level to hopefully hold back until > SysAdmin comes along and fixes the first level. How on Earth are your iptables going to "break down"? > If we have such things, we set our car alarms after locking the car > doors. Either one should be sufficient protection against intruders, > yet we use both. The locks and the alarms do different things. The locks are set to try to keep people out and the alarm lets other people know that someone is attempting to get in. Me, I don't push an entire room full of my private property and space around with me wherever I go. And I certainly don't leave that much private property in a public place unattended. > In our homes, we usually lock all our doors and windows. Many, if not > most, people also have some form of weapon near where they sleep... be > it a baseball bat, a shotgun, a rifle, or a little snubnose revolver. > In case the first layer of protection fails. :-) Again, totally different functionality. You don't have the gun to keep people from opening the door just as you don't have the lock to scare people that get in. Your analogy is more like running your daemons in a chrooted environment in addition to securing the ports with iptables or tcpwrappers. They have different purposes and are NOT redundant. Me, I'm not afraid of my neighbors, so I don't lock my house. And I don't want to increase the amount of pain in the world, so I don't keep anything in the house that is only a weapon. (But anything's a weapon if you hold it right, I suppose.) You make the world in which you want to live. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 16 19:03:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 16 19:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <20040216181526.GK12520@ursine.ca> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076950033.1739.7167.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <20040216181526.GK12520@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 08:47:14AM -0800, Ed Sawicki wrote: > > 2.Car door locks and alarm systems have different functions. An > > alarm system does not protect against intruders in the same > > way that door locks do whereas iptables and TCP wrappers do > > perform (essentially) the same functionality. > > OK, door locks and ignition switch gives you two layers of protection > against starting the car. No, door locks supposedly give protection from entry into the cabin and keyed ignition switches (I assume you mean keyed switches) supposedly slow down time to ignition for those who are already in the cabin. Again, that's more like iptables and a chroot environment or running a daemon as a non-privileged user. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 16 19:05:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 16 19:05:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Laptop screen backlight problem In-Reply-To: <1076983927.12274.5.camel@timmy> References: <1076983927.12274.5.camel@timmy> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > What are your ideas for what this problem is a symptom of and how to go > about fixing it? Evan, Northwest Computer Support, off Allen Blvd. in south Beaverton is excellent for repairing portables. I've used them a few times -- 3 -- and am quite satisified. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 16 19:13:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 16 19:13:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: <1076970148.6667.155.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1076882311.23609.85.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216073155.GF3333@ursine.ca> <1076922475.28006.22.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040216140144.GD10826@ursine.ca> <1076947105.853.7068.camel@nat.alcpress.com> <1076946827.6667.140.camel@dell.linux.box> <20040216215322.3B739170@grayscale.canids> <1076970148.6667.155.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > Does this mean Windows was 100% reliable up until the first security > flaw was discovered? I think not. I think the OS was insecure before, > we just didn't realize it. If it wasn't realized by anyone, then it wasn't real. We're talking about pure information, here. > I wouldn't call any piece of software 100% secure. I could write a "hello world" program that is 100% secure. After that, it's just a matter of dilligence. > It defies logic that something could be 100% reliably secure one moment, > then completely insecure the next moment simply because of one > individual gaining knowledge. Um, you can't just claim that "it defies logic" without giving a description or pointer to the logical fallacy. If there is no known, existing way to exploit a piece of software, it is 100% secure because nobody has the means to exploit potential vulnerabilities. If there is a known way to exploit the software, it is totally insecure because anyone who knows how to use the exploit can do so. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From bmdimaculangan at bhpi.com.ph Mon Feb 16 19:58:02 2004 From: bmdimaculangan at bhpi.com.ph (Billy Dimaculangan) Date: Mon Feb 16 19:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] migrating email user accounts Message-ID: guys, i am currently working on our new mail server, how do i transfer all email users form our old box to the new one.. what files do i need to copy, and anyone who can give documents or procedures for these? BTW, our old box is a rh7.2 running postfix and our new one is rh9 running postfix also. thanks, Billy From eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us Mon Feb 16 20:00:03 2004 From: eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us (Eric Harrison) Date: Mon Feb 16 20:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Time server broken... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > >On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: >> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 01:07:55AM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: >> > If I filter with iptables, aren't tcp wrappers >> > redundant? >> >> No, don't put all your eggs in one basket. > >As I believe Mark Twain once wrote, "Put all your eggs in one basket... >AND WATCH THAT BASKET!" Good thing Mark Twain was not a sys admin ;-) >iptables can do everything tcpwrappers do if you write the rules >carefully. And if you apply the same restrictions with two different pieces of software, a security bug in one of them is likely to be stopped by the other. Or, in the case that you did not write your iptables rules "carefully", there is a chance that your tcpwrappers config will be correct. Defense in depth is your friend. -Eric From Jeff at Blain.org Mon Feb 16 20:05:03 2004 From: Jeff at Blain.org (Jeff Blain) Date: Mon Feb 16 20:05:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apache problem In-Reply-To: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> References: <1076775507.14399.22.camel@dizzy.blain.org> Message-ID: <1076886881.18597.36.camel@dizzy.blain.org> I still don't know what happened to apache. I removed the package, and reinstalled it with new configs. It works now. Jeff On Sat, 2004-02-14 at 10:18, Jeff Blain wrote: > I have a Debian testing box that I have Apache on. It has worked fine > for months until a recent upgrade. I can't figure out for the life of me > what happened, nor how to fix it. I have plowed the config with dpkg to > start all over, but still no joy. Below is the output of errors. > > mesa:/home/jelque# /usr/sbin/apachectl start > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module config_log_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module mime_magic_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module mime_module is already loaded, > skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module negotiation_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module status_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module autoindex_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module dir_module is already loaded, > skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module cgi_module is already loaded, > skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module imap_module is already loaded, > skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module userdir_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module alias_module is already loaded, > skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module rewrite_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module access_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module auth_module is already loaded, > skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module proxy_module is already loaded, > skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module expires_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module unique_id_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module setenvif_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module fastcgi_module is already > loaded, skipping > [Sat Feb 14 10:42:13 2004] [warn] module php4_module is already loaded, > skipping > Syntax error on line 347 of /etc/apache/httpd.conf: > Invalid command 'Order', perhaps mis-spelled or defined by a module not > included in the server configuration > /usr/sbin/apachectl start: httpd could not be started > > Here is the relevent lines from httpd.conf that it barfs on. > > # > # Controls who can get stuff from this server. > # > Order allow,deny > Allow from all > > > Jeff > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 16 20:06:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 16 20:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] unicode problem with Postgresql and Perl DBD::Pg In-Reply-To: <861xouczj9.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86y8r2etnt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <20040216221455.GC20971@maybe.net> <86r7wud3pv.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <861xouczj9.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <20040217040514.GD20971@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 04:36:42PM -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "Russell" == Russell Senior writes: > > Russell> One message in particular is labeled with iso-8859-1 and > Russell> contains "J?rg" in the body, the second character of which > Russell> appears as 0xf6 in the mbox file. > > Russell> Which encoding should I use and how do I specify it? I am a > Russell> Postgresql and DBD::Pg neophyte, if that isn't obvious > Russell> already. > > Ah. Evidently, what I needed was to create the database with > something like: > > create database foo with encoding = 'SQL_ASCII'; > > Seems to have fixed it. Wellllll... That's just a nice way of just squashing all the messages to a 7-bit American bastardization. :-) You'd be a better citizen if you set encoding = 'UNICODE' and then using Text::Iconv to convert your messages to UTF-8 based on their specified MIME encoding. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kens at cad2cam.com Mon Feb 16 20:31:02 2004 From: kens at cad2cam.com (Kenneth G. Stephens) Date: Mon Feb 16 20:31:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <1076946178.6653.132.camel@dell.linux.box> <1076959963.6650.146.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1076992243.12081.6.camel@atlas.cadtocam.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 17:59, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > > > Try this, please. It will at least tell us a little bit. If it works in > > a single drive setup, set up *exactly* as your known-good drive, then it > > is simply a configuration error somewhere along the line. If it does > > *not* work, set up exactly as the known-good drive is set up, then we > > can safely assume there is a hardware-level compatibility or failure > > issue. > > Rob, > > Still haven't yet tried this. But, I was told by the folks at ENU that > only the primary IDE bus on the MSI KT3 system board supports ultra-DMA, so > both drives need to be there. > > Took everything out and checked jumpers. > > Original hard drive on bus0, master (and jumped as such). New hard drive > on bus0, slave (and jumped as such). CD-ROM drive on bus1, master (and > jumped as that). > > Turn on the box and no drive is recognized. ARRRGGHH-H-H-H! > > I've not had this problem ever before. > > Later, perhaps tomorrow, I'll unplug the cdrom and the old drive, rejump > the new one as a master and see what it does on the end of the cable. > > Rich > > -- > Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President > Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) > > Rich, You may be doing what you think is right, but the hardware may not be what you think. If your cable is one of the newer IDE cables, it has a twist in it that sets up the slave/master relationship. Your setting the jumpers may be defeating this and putting both drives in the same mode. For kicks, why not let the hardware try its thing. Put both drives in cable select configuration and plug them in your cable. Try it, it might even work. Ken CAD2CAM.COM From russell-evans at qwest.net Mon Feb 16 21:54:02 2004 From: russell-evans at qwest.net (Russell Evans) Date: Mon Feb 16 21:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] SOT: Personal Router and CISCO switches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040216215340.3e03fba9@downtown> On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:10 -0800 (PST) "Roderick A. Anderson" wrote: > I've been running it to this problem and don't have the financial > resources to sort it out. Hopefully someone here can point me in the > rightdirection. > > I've discovered that the personal firewalls' uplink port won't sync > with some CISCO 2900 and 3500 Enterprise switches. Tried all the > regular tricks (cross-over cable, tested cables, etc.) but but the > only way is to go through a 'cheap' hub or switch then to the CISCO > switch. > Configure the switch ports not to negotiate. configure the personal firewall as well. Thank you Russell From krisa at subtend.net Mon Feb 16 22:20:03 2004 From: krisa at subtend.net (Kris) Date: Mon Feb 16 22:20:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] SOT: Personal Router and CISCO switches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040217061914.GB4257@subtend.net> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 05:11:10PM -0800, Roderick A. Anderson wrote: > I've discovered that the personal firewalls' uplink port won't sync with > some CISCO 2900 and 3500 Enterprise switches. Tried all the regular > tricks (cross-over cable, tested cables, etc.) but but the only way is to > go through a 'cheap' hub or switch then to the CISCO switch. Personal firewall? Is this a linux device or cisco? In the past I have seen issues with Cisco and auto-negotiation of duplex and speed. Try forcing the Cisco to 100-FullDplx or whatever your firewall can handle (try to force on both sides). If any of the ports involved are Gig, and you are crossing over, you may need to create a gigabit crossover cable. In this case, you not only have to switch the green and orange pair, but you have to swap the blue and brown pair as well. -- I'm just a packet pusher. From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 16 22:56:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 16 22:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] unicode problem with Postgresql and Perl DBD::Pg In-Reply-To: <20040217040514.GD20971@maybe.net> References: <86y8r2etnt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <20040216221455.GC20971@maybe.net> <86r7wud3pv.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <861xouczj9.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <20040217040514.GD20971@maybe.net> Message-ID: <86d68e9oua.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Jantzen writes: Russell> Ah. Evidently, what I needed was to create the database with Russell> something like: Russell> create database foo with encoding = 'SQL_ASCII'; Russell> Seems to have fixed it. Chris> Wellllll... That's just a nice way of just squashing all the Chris> messages to a 7-bit American bastardization. :-) It seems to come back out the same way it went in, so at the moment I am less concerned about the form it takes when it is inside. Chris> You'd be a better citizen if you set encoding = 'UNICODE' and Chris> then using Text::Iconv to convert your messages to UTF-8 based Chris> on their specified MIME encoding. I'll look into that. Thanks for the pointer. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Feb 16 23:51:02 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon Feb 16 23:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Knoppix disks at Conference Message-ID: <20040217074948.GA11371@gate.kl-ic.com> Greetings from the International Solid State Circuits Conference in San Francisco. Last week I made 280 Knoppix CDs, with some customization (more english docs) and some pointers to advertising for my consulting business. I put them out on a table today on the first day of sessions. They were gone by 3PM. I asked a few people who took them; there was very high interest and rather a lot of unhappy Microsoft users among the people I talked to. There were about 2000 chip designers at the conference; I imagine I could have distributed 1000 CDs if I had made that many. Those of you that are non-software types and attend professional conferences might want to consider something similar. I will keep you informed of how well it works out, advertising-wise. If it does work out right, I may consider going to one of the professional CD duplication outfits and running off 1000 disks; I think they run 80 cents a piece in that quantity. Perhaps we can pool efforts on this and get higher quantities at lower prices. I think I have learned enough to do the long-put-off "library Knoppix emergency disk", too. I am reminded of the old and politically incorrect story about the two cowboys that saw a poster in town offering a bounty for the scalps of Comanche Indians. The fellows head out into the wild, and spend a fruitless day looking for Comanches to capture and scalp. They bed down for the night in a small valley. When they wake up in the morning, the ridges around the valley are packed solid with thousands of Comanche warriors. One of the Indian hunters knudges the other in the ribs, cracks a big smile, and whoops "we're RICH!!!!" Sometimes I feel just like that when I think about selling open source to the world. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 17 00:35:03 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 17 00:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 12:08, Paul Johnson wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 09:27:20AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > IIRC, two WD on the same channel will auto negotiate. A single WD on a > > cable doesn't like any jumpers at all. A WD with something else needs > > the jumper, most of the time. > > I only use WD drives now, and they work like every other brand I've > used in the past. Master if it's the only or first drive, Slave if > it's not. I notice the difference when WD came out with something like the 500 Meg drive. If you've got only one WD drive on a cable, no jumpers at all. Two WD drives on the same channel used to be no jumpers. Maybe they've changed something lately, but that's the way it was until a year ago. http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=8DmFh84h&p_lva=&p_faqid=54&p_created=1003440599&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NjQ3JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li= http://support.wdc.com/techinfo/general/jumpers.asp Looks like they've changed, two drives require two jumpers, but one drive, no jumpers. Looks like they're into playing with cable select, too. I've only used it a few times, and IIRC, it was with WD drives in cheap PCs. HTH -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 17 00:43:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 17 00:43:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <1077007370.19756.65.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 09:36, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > If I were you, I'd try unconventional things, like above, to see what I > > can get going. I'd work one channel at a time. > > Mike, > > I tried the new drive with no jumper. Damn, no easy answer here, is there? > > At the risk of being far too basic, and only because I hadn't seen it > > listed here recently, I'll mention that many systems will not boot if the > > pin 1 stripe is not oriented toward the power connector on the IDE device. > > There is no way to easily miss this: the plugs have two, small ridges in > the center of one side; the socket has a notch in the center of one side. > Ridges go into notch. This is on both the drives and the system board. You know the old adage, if it's simple it gets overlooked. I wasn't trying to insult you, I just had to ask. > > Does the new drive recognize correctly under any circumstance? > > Nope. If it won't recognize as the only drive on the bus with no jumper with the BIOS set to auto, auto, I'd suspect the IDE controller. Do you have a spare IDE controller kicking around? I do and will be in the windy city tomorrow, the 18th. let me know if I can drop the card by. > > CSFO is closing their doors, BTW. Should be this month some time. > > Who's this? They're similar to ENU, a hardware vendor, but the guys know how to work on PCs better, and they sold slightly higher grade eq. Located a mile further upo 122nd, on the left, just before Airport way. -- Mike De La Mater Small Business Networks and Computers Your key to technology that works mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Tue Feb 17 06:48:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Tue Feb 17 06:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Laptop screen backlight problem In-Reply-To: References: <1076983927.12274.5.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <1077029211.1644.0.camel@timmy> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 19:04, Rich Shepard wrote: > Northwest Computer Support, off Allen Blvd. in south Beaverton is > excellent for repairing portables. I've used them a few times -- 3 -- and am > quite satisified. > > Rich Thanks for the recommendation! I'll probably be going over there later this week. Evan From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 17 07:03:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 17 07:03:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Laptop screen backlight problem In-Reply-To: <1077029211.1644.0.camel@timmy> References: <1076983927.12274.5.camel@timmy> <1077029211.1644.0.camel@timmy> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > Thanks for the recommendation! I'll probably be going over there later > this week. Evan, Just make sure they re-seat the keyboard completely and evenly if they take it off. I ended up with a separate trip after they added another 256M of RAM in my new Sony. Of course, I should have seen that before I left. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From buchholz at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 09:09:02 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Tue Feb 17 09:09:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] migrating email user accounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40324A88.5020906@easystreet.com> Billy Dimaculangan wrote: >guys, > >i am currently working on our new mail server, how do i transfer all email >users form our old box to the new one.. what files do i need to copy, and >anyone who can give documents or procedures for these? BTW, our old box is >a rh7.2 running postfix and our new one is rh9 running postfix also. > If you're just using classic Unix-style mail boxes, then the mailbox contents are all in /var/spool/mail. Disable all mail activity on the old server (going single-user is one good, simple method) and then copy all those files to the new system. From baloo at ursine.ca Tue Feb 17 09:42:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 17 09:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040217174107.GC8447@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 12:34:19AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > I notice the difference when WD came out with something like the 500 Meg > drive. If you've got only one WD drive on a cable, no jumpers at all. Why learn the brand-specific settings when the generic ones work just as well? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMlIzUzgNqloQMwcRAubYAJ9E3WK4QpnxOi4VIun5AckpnD2RBQCfcMTG 51lzFCxQUdefhEDW1ZKXpIU= =pAfY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 17 09:48:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 17 09:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <20040217174107.GC8447@ursine.ca> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040217174107.GC8447@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1077040059.21526.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 09:41, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 12:34:19AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > > I notice the difference when WD came out with something like the 500 Meg > > drive. If you've got only one WD drive on a cable, no jumpers at all. > > Why learn the brand-specific settings when the generic ones work just > as well? It is my point that standard settings do not work with WD drives. You CANNOT set the master on a single drive channel to master. It must be "neutral" (we always called it "park") or no jumper at all. Every other brand I've ever used requires a master jumper for master in a single drive channel. Am I missing something here? -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From Rob.Anderson at nike.com Tue Feb 17 09:49:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Tue Feb 17 09:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 Message-ID: <200402171748.i1HHmQie006311@barrierb241.nike.com> Thanks everyone. After spending two late nights trying to make it work, I grabbed an older 10/100 NIC that I had laying around and installed it. It works great now. I would have liked to get it working with the onboard NIC, but I have other fish to fry. -Rob Anderson > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Russell Evans > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:15 PM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] e1000 driver and Linksys WET11 > > > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:50:42 -0800 > "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > > > Yes. The e1000 works with just about anything else. I can > connect this > > linux box to my linksys router and it works fine. I can even use it > > with the WET11 if I connect them both to a hub. It only > fails to work > > when connected directly to the WET11. I am going to try a different > > NIC this weekend. That should make it work, but the mystery remains. > > > If it works with a hub and you've confirmed you have set the speed > and duplex, then it might be flow control > > FlowControl > Valid Range: 0-3 (0=none, 1=Rx only, 2=Tx only, 3=Rx&Tx) > Default: Read flow control settings from the EEPROM > This parameter controls the automatic generation(Tx) and > response(Rx) to Ethernet PAUSE frames. > > I would also try the AutoNeg setting instead of setting both > Speed and > Deplex. Setting it to 3 will mean it will auto-negotiation up to 100 > full duplex but not the 1000 full. > > You might want to try the latest driver as well. > > Thank you > Russell > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From Rob.Anderson at nike.com Tue Feb 17 10:11:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Tue Feb 17 10:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] migrating email user accounts Message-ID: <200402171810.i1HIAHie029160@barrierb241.nike.com> I have done this several times in the past. I used rsync over ssh to move the users home directories and mailboxes in /var/spool/mail. I ran the rsync once, then tested everything out. Then for the go-live, I stopped sendmail, ran the rsync again, and started sendmail (or whatever smtp server you plan to user) on the new box. Then tested agian. -Rob Anderson > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Don Buchholz > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:08 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] migrating email user accounts > > > Billy Dimaculangan wrote: > > >guys, > > > >i am currently working on our new mail server, how do i > transfer all email > >users form our old box to the new one.. what files do i need > to copy, and > >anyone who can give documents or procedures for these? BTW, > our old box is > >a rh7.2 running postfix and our new one is rh9 running postfix also. > > > > If you're just using classic Unix-style mail boxes, then the mailbox > contents > are all in /var/spool/mail. Disable all mail activity on the > old server > (going > single-user is one good, simple method) and then copy all > those files to the > new system. > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From russj at dimstar.net Tue Feb 17 10:12:02 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 17 10:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <4032594A.1050105@dimstar.net> Mike De La Mater wrote: >I notice the difference when WD came out with something like the 500 Meg >drive. If you've got only one WD drive on a cable, no jumpers at all. >Two WD drives on the same channel used to be no jumpers. Maybe they've >changed something lately, but that's the way it was until a year ago. > At least WD and Seagate, maybe others, use cable select. Several of the older, dead, IBM deskstar drives I have as paperweights also list cable select. I don't trust cable select. It's not proven to me to be any more reliable than manually setting the jumpers. Russ From baloo at ursine.ca Tue Feb 17 10:21:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 17 10:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1077040059.21526.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040217174107.GC8447@ursine.ca> <1077040059.21526.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040217182013.GD8447@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 09:47:39AM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > It is my point that standard settings do not work with WD drives. You > CANNOT set the master on a single drive channel to master. It must be > "neutral" (we always called it "park") or no jumper at all. So I guess my hard drive shouldn't be working at all right now, eh? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMltdUzgNqloQMwcRAuXAAKDkggsMJi6rEGR++hS2Lq7V0CKtvQCfQsef 6SRhRXZGdAKhP5Txcs/lPHA= =NT1q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 10:52:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 17 10:52:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. Message-ID: <1077043876.3200.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> I have an older (notice the tone of respect, it may be slower, but that doesn't mean it can just give up on life), machine with a scsi zip drive in it. I put a disk in it and the little light came on and I believe it was accepted. Trouble is I don't know what to do get it going. I've read some older docs and they speak of rebuilding the kernel and putting incantations in lilo an /etc/modules.conf. This older machine is running Fedora1 and I just don't believe I have to do that, you know modern modular kernel and all that. Help me give a meaningful and purposeful life to this older machine. From galens at seitzassoc.com Tue Feb 17 11:13:02 2004 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Tue Feb 17 11:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:51:16 PST." <1077043876.3200.10.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040217191240.A6C328EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Bill Spears wrote: > I have an older (notice the tone of respect, it may be slower, but that > doesn't mean it can just give up on life), machine with a scsi zip drive > in it. I put a disk in it and the little light came on and I believe it > was accepted. Trouble is I don't know what to do get it going. > > I've read some older docs and they speak of rebuilding the kernel and > putting incantations in lilo an /etc/modules.conf. This older machine is > running Fedora1 and I just don't believe I have to do that, you know > modern modular kernel and all that. > > Help me give a meaningful and purposeful life to this older machine. > I'd start by doing cat /proc/scsi/scsi. You ought to see your drive listed. For example: Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 05 Lun: 00 Vendor: IOMEGA Model: ZIP 100 Rev: N*32 Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Do you have other scsi disks? If so, this will affect which device (/dev/sd?) is associated with the drive. Posting the output from cat /proc/scsi/scsi is a good place to start. galen From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 11:31:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 17 11:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <20040217191240.A6C328EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040217191240.A6C328EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <1077046245.3200.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:12, Galen Seitz wrote: > Bill Spears wrote: > > > I have an older (notice the tone of respect, it may be slower, but that > > doesn't mean it can just give up on life), machine with a scsi zip drive > > in it. I put a disk in it and the little light came on and I believe it > > was accepted. Trouble is I don't know what to do get it going. > > > > I've read some older docs and they speak of rebuilding the kernel and > > putting incantations in lilo an /etc/modules.conf. This older machine is > > running Fedora1 and I just don't believe I have to do that, you know > > modern modular kernel and all that. > > > > Help me give a meaningful and purposeful life to this older machine. > > > > I'd start by doing cat /proc/scsi/scsi. You ought to see your drive listed. > For example: > > Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 05 Lun: 00 > Vendor: IOMEGA Model: ZIP 100 Rev: N*32 > Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 > > > Do you have other scsi disks? If so, this will affect which device > (/dev/sd?) is associated with the drive. Posting the output > from cat /proc/scsi/scsi is a good place to start. > > galen > > Attached devices none. -- Bill Spears From gepr at tempusdictum.com Tue Feb 17 11:44:01 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Tue Feb 17 11:44:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077046245.3200.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217191240.A6C328EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077046245.3200.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <16434.28093.450322.264813@eris.dischordia.net> Bill Spears writes: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:12, Galen Seitz wrote: > > Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > > I've read some older docs and they speak of rebuilding the kernel and > > > putting incantations in lilo an /etc/modules.conf. This older machine is > > > running Fedora1 and I just don't believe I have to do that, you know > > > modern modular kernel and all that. > > > > > > Help me give a meaningful and purposeful life to this older machine. > > > > > > > I'd start by doing cat /proc/scsi/scsi. You ought to see your drive listed. > > Attached devices none. I've got a SCSI Jaz drive accessible through /dev/sdb But, I configured my kernel with: CONFIG_SCSI=y After you do that or load a module, you should be able to see which device it is from dmesg. E.g. from my system: Attached scsi removable disk sdb at scsi0, channel 0, id 4, lun 0 Then I use it with: tar ztvf /dev/sdb -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From galens at seitzassoc.com Tue Feb 17 11:55:02 2004 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Tue Feb 17 11:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:30:45 PST." <1077046245.3200.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040217195438.C14DF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Bill Spears wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:12, Galen Seitz wrote: > > Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > I have an older (notice the tone of respect, it may be slower, but that > > > doesn't mean it can just give up on life), machine with a scsi zip drive > > > in it. I put a disk in it and the little light came on and I believe it > > > was accepted. Trouble is I don't know what to do get it going. > > > > > > Help me give a meaningful and purposeful life to this older machine. > > > > > > > Do you have other scsi disks? If so, this will affect which device > > (/dev/sd?) is associated with the drive. Posting the output > > from cat /proc/scsi/scsi is a good place to start. > > > Attached devices none. > Okay, we need to know what scsi controller you have. How about /sbin/lspci and /sbin/lsmod? galen From raanders at acm.org Tue Feb 17 12:18:02 2004 From: raanders at acm.org (Roderick A. Anderson) Date: Tue Feb 17 12:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] SOT: Personal Router and CISCO switches In-Reply-To: <20040216215340.3e03fba9@downtown> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Russell Evans wrote: > Configure the switch ports not to negotiate. configure the personal > firewall as well. Fortunately, though I used the first person singular to describe the situation, I can't lay claim to the response I got when I suggested the same thing. I don't know about the CISCO (somebody elses baliwick) but I did sneak a look through the LinkSys interface (Web based) for these types of settings and didn't find them. I'll pick on the Techical Manager to fiddle with the CISCOs. I'll try the LinkSys site. Thanks Russell, Rod -- "Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..." "Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL" From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 12:27:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 17 12:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <20040217195438.C14DF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040217195438.C14DF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <1077049567.3324.4.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:54, Galen Seitz wrote: > Bill Spears wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:12, Galen Seitz wrote: > > > Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > > > I have an older (notice the tone of respect, it may be slower, but that > > > > doesn't mean it can just give up on life), machine with a scsi zip drive > > > > in it. I put a disk in it and the little light came on and I believe it > > > > was accepted. Trouble is I don't know what to do get it going. > > > > > > > > Help me give a meaningful and purposeful life to this older machine. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have other scsi disks? If so, this will affect which device > > > (/dev/sd?) is associated with the drive. Posting the output > > > from cat /proc/scsi/scsi is a good place to start. > > > > > Attached devices none. > > > > Okay, we need to know what scsi controller you have. How about /sbin/lspci > and /sbin/lsmod? > > galen > Here it is: 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C598 [Apollo MVP3] (rev 04) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C598/694x [Apollo MVP3/Pro133x AGP] 00:07.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586/A/B PCI-to-ISA [Apollo VP] (rev 47) 00:07.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT8233/A/C/VT8235 PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06) 00:07.3 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586B ACPI (rev 10) 00:08.0 VGA compatible controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 86C326 5598/6326 (rev 0b) 00:09.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet 10/100 model NC100 (rev 11) Module Size Used by Not tainted sb 8980 0 (autoclean) sb_lib 39726 0 (autoclean) [sb] uart401 7684 0 (autoclean) [sb_lib] sound 68468 0 (autoclean) [sb_lib uart401] soundcore 6148 5 (autoclean) [sb_lib sound] nls_iso8859-1 3484 1 (autoclean) ide-cd 32448 1 (autoclean) cdrom 32384 0 (autoclean) [ide-cd] mousedev 5012 1 (autoclean) input 5664 0 (autoclean) [mousedev] agpgart 51812 0 (unused) parport_pc 17188 1 (autoclean) lp 8196 0 (autoclean) parport 33952 1 (autoclean) [parport_pc lp] autofs 11156 0 (autoclean) (unused) tulip 40800 1 floppy 55036 0 (autoclean) sg 33772 0 (autoclean) (unused) scsi_mod 107496 1 (autoclean) [sg] loop 10808 0 (autoclean) lvm-mod 63552 0 ext3 65444 2 jbd 47564 2 [ext3] Bill Spears From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 13:06:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 17 13:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <16434.28093.450322.264813@eris.dischordia.net> References: <20040217191240.A6C328EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077046245.3200.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <16434.28093.450322.264813@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: <1077051923.3324.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:38, gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > I've got a SCSI Jaz drive accessible through /dev/sdb > > But, I configured my kernel with: > > CONFIG_SCSI=y > I believe mine is =m -- Bill Spears From brian at brianquade.net Tue Feb 17 13:29:02 2004 From: brian at brianquade.net (Brian Quade) Date: Tue Feb 17 13:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Software Job Prospects (fwd) Message-ID: <4032876F.9040202@brianquade.net> Very good article about overseas software outsourcing from the New York Times, Sunday 15 February 2004. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/15/business/15JOBS.html From gepr at tempusdictum.com Tue Feb 17 13:32:02 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Tue Feb 17 13:32:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077051923.3324.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217191240.A6C328EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077046245.3200.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <16434.28093.450322.264813@eris.dischordia.net> <1077051923.3324.7.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <16434.34570.300801.350986@eris.dischordia.net> Bill Spears writes: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:38, gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > > > I've got a SCSI Jaz drive accessible through /dev/sdb > > > > But, I configured my kernel with: > > > > CONFIG_SCSI=y > > > I believe mine is =m Then all you probably need do is to set CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD=m Then compile and install the module. Your kernel should be fine. There should be a module HOWTO somewhere out there that you can follow. But, it would involve something like: make modules_install Then make sure /etc/modules and /etc/modutils/sd are set up ok. Then reboot. Note that if you're on Debian, there's a "Debian way" of doing stuff, namely use "make-kpkg modules_image" instead of the regular kernel make. -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From galens at seitzassoc.com Tue Feb 17 13:52:02 2004 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Tue Feb 17 13:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:26:08 PST." <1077049567.3324.4.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Bill Spears wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:54, Galen Seitz wrote: > > > > Okay, we need to know what scsi controller you have. How about /sbin/lspci > > and /sbin/lsmod? > > > > galen > > > > Here it is: > > 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C598 [Apollo MVP3] (rev > 04) > 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C598/694x [Apollo > MVP3/Pro133x AGP] > 00:07.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586/A/B PCI-to-ISA > [Apollo VP] (rev 47) > 00:07.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. > VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT8233/A/C/VT8235 PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06) > 00:07.3 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586B ACPI (rev 10) > 00:08.0 VGA compatible controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] > 86C326 5598/6326 (rev 0b) > 00:09.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet > 10/100 model NC100 (rev 11) > Uh-oh. I don't see a scsi controller there. I think it is time to open up the box and see what the zip drive is connected to. galen From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 14:28:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 17 14:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 13:51, Galen Seitz wrote: > Bill Spears wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:54, Galen Seitz wrote: > > > > > > Okay, we need to know what scsi controller you have. How about /sbin/lspci > > > and /sbin/lsmod? > > > > > > galen > > > > > > > Here it is: > > > > 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C598 [Apollo MVP3] (rev > > 04) > > 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C598/694x [Apollo > > MVP3/Pro133x AGP] > > 00:07.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586/A/B PCI-to-ISA > > [Apollo VP] (rev 47) > > 00:07.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. > > VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT8233/A/C/VT8235 PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06) > > 00:07.3 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C586B ACPI (rev 10) > > 00:08.0 VGA compatible controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] > > 86C326 5598/6326 (rev 0b) > > 00:09.0 Ethernet controller: Linksys Network Everywhere Fast Ethernet > > 10/100 model NC100 (rev 11) > > > > Uh-oh. I don't see a scsi controller there. I think it is time to > open up the box and see what the zip drive is connected to. > > galen ISA board: adaptec ava-1502 connected by a very wide ribbon cable to the drive. The red edge marker appears to be correctly oriented. -- Bill Spears From wcooley at nakedape.cc Tue Feb 17 14:49:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Tue Feb 17 14:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077058107.4345.5.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 14:27, Bill Spears wrote: > ISA board: adaptec ava-1502 connected by a very wide ribbon > cable to the drive. The red edge marker appears to be correctly > oriented. Are you sure it's not an AHA-1502? Try 'modprobe aha152x'; that will likely fail and you'll have to specify the IRQ, IO port, etc. Ain't ISA fun? Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * * * * Good, fast and cheap: Pick all 3! * * * * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Naked Ape Business Server http://nakedape.cc/r/smb * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From seniorr at aracnet.com Tue Feb 17 14:57:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Tue Feb 17 14:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) Message-ID: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> I haven't seen any announcement of this month's advanced topics meeting. Happening, or should I plan a PIFF expedition instead? Also, I just got a brand new buckling spring keyboard (i.e. like the old IBM keyboards) today and wondered if there is anyone who wants to see/feel it, particularly those of the younger generation that have never seen/felt/heard one before. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From mikeraz at patch.com Tue Feb 17 15:01:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040217225844.GA13181@patch.com> On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 02:27:15PM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > ISA board: adaptec ava-1502 connected by a very wide ribbon > cable to the drive. The red edge marker appears to be correctly > oriented. Perhaps it's time to visit FreeGeek and see if they still have PCI SCSI boards for ~$10 each and save yourself a lot of aggravation. It worked well for me. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: If you notice that a person is deceiving you, they must not be deceiving you very well. From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Tue Feb 17 15:15:03 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Bill Spears bspears-at-easystreet.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > ISA board: adaptec ava-1502 connected by a very wide ribbon > cable to the drive. The red edge marker appears to be correctly > oriented. Bill: You'll need to get the jumper settings off the card for the I/O port and IRQ. Welcome back to the Bad Old Days before PCI became so widespread! Try this: insmod aha152x irq= io= debug=10 This might also help: http://www.google.com/linux?q=adaptec+ava-1502 I found the second link to be useful even though he's talking about a scanner. -- Steve From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Tue Feb 17 15:17:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <20040217225844.GA13181@patch.com> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040217225844.GA13181@patch.com> Message-ID: <16427-87667@sneakemail.com> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Michael Rasmussen mikeraz-at-patch.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > Perhaps it's time to visit FreeGeek and see if they still have PCI SCSI > boards for ~$10 each and save yourself a lot of aggravation. It worked > well for me. Ebay also has a constant selection of high quality SCSI cards under $20 if FreeGeek doesn't. I highly recommend the Adaptec 2940UW AIC-based line. -- Steve From wcooley at nakedape.cc Tue Feb 17 15:21:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 14:56, Russell Senior wrote: > I haven't seen any announcement of this month's advanced topics > meeting. Happening, or should I plan a PIFF expedition instead? I'm going to be talking about setting up Samba 3 as Primary and Backup Domain Controllers using LDAP (for load management or multi-side installations). It's gonna be hott. > Also, I just got a brand new buckling spring keyboard (i.e. like the > old IBM keyboards) today and wondered if there is anyone who wants to > see/feel it, particularly those of the younger generation that have > never seen/felt/heard one before. I had a source some years ago; they were only about $20, but they were the newer hard plastic instead of the original metal. I'm using them on most of my systems. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ed at alcpress.com Tue Feb 17 15:22:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Identity Theft Message-ID: <1077060724.853.9054.camel@nat.alcpress.com> IDENTITY THEFT This month's PANUG meeting is this Thursday, February 19. This meeting is entirely focused on identity theft. We'll include suggestions for what you can do to decrease your risk of identity theft beyond the obvious and what you can do if your identity is stolen. This is a PANUG and BizNix community outreach program so everyone is invited. The presentation will be mostly non-technical so anyone concerned about these issues may attend - even non-domputer geeks. The presentation begins at 7:00 pm. It's important that you RSVP because we expect this to be a well-attended event. To RSVP, just reply to this message and tell us the names of the people attending. The meeting is held at Novell's office in Tigard across from Washington Square. Directions are on the PANUG web site at http://www.panug.org. Click on the meetings link. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 17 15:46:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:46:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Russell Senior wrote: > Also, I just got a brand new buckling spring keyboard (i.e. like the old > IBM keyboards) today and wondered if there is anyone who wants to see/feel > it, particularly those of the younger generation that have never > seen/felt/heard one before. Is this the type that goes clicky-click as you type? Noisy things, those were. I always preferred the soft, quiet ones. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From jeme at brelin.net Tue Feb 17 15:47:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Tue Feb 17 15:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 14:56, Russell Senior wrote: > > I haven't seen any announcement of this month's advanced topics > > meeting. Happening, or should I plan a PIFF expedition instead? > > I'm going to be talking about setting up Samba 3 as Primary and Backup > Domain Controllers using LDAP (for load management or multi-side > installations). It's gonna be hott. Wow... this is the first time an ALT meeting topic coincides with something I'm doing right now. Neat. So, can somebody tell me why the slapd Debian package REQUIRES X? That's kind of... well... fucked. > > Also, I just got a brand new buckling spring keyboard (i.e. like the > > old IBM keyboards) today and wondered if there is anyone who wants to > > see/feel it, particularly those of the younger generation that have > > never seen/felt/heard one before. > > I had a source some years ago; they were only about $20, but they were > the newer hard plastic instead of the original metal. I'm using them on > most of my systems. I love 'em. Using one right now. Are you saying that the shells of some are metal or the springs? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From wcooley at nakedape.cc Tue Feb 17 16:04:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Tue Feb 17 16:04:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1077062591.4345.15.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 15:54, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > Wow... this is the first time an ALT meeting topic coincides with > something I'm doing right now. > > Neat. Then keep your eyes on http://nakedape.cc/wiki/SambaLdapIntegration > So, can somebody tell me why the slapd Debian package REQUIRES X? That's > kind of... well... fucked. That's really bad. > Are you saying that the shells of some are metal or the springs? The shells. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Tue Feb 17 16:06:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Tue Feb 17 16:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Unrecognized service... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077062378.3138.6.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 07:16, Matt Alexander wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Daniel Logghe wrote: > > > Darkhorse wrote: > > > Odd, considering that X wasn't installed and that ps auxw shows this: > > > > Instead of ps you might try netstat to figure out what process has the > > port open. Try running "netstat -lpt" > > That is, of course, unless the box was hacked and netstat was replaced > with a version that doesn't list this particular process... That give rpc.statd. How do I block it from the external network without blockng it inside? I use nfs to export a dump disk for use with my tape drive. From jeme at brelin.net Tue Feb 17 16:07:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Tue Feb 17 16:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <1077062591.4345.15.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1077062591.4345.15.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 15:54, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > Wow... this is the first time an ALT meeting topic coincides with > > something I'm doing right now. > > > > Neat. > > Then keep your eyes on http://nakedape.cc/wiki/SambaLdapIntegration I will. > > So, can somebody tell me why the slapd Debian package REQUIRES X? That's > > kind of... well... fucked. > > That's really bad. Yep. For whatever reason it requires xlibs which requires all kinds of X-ish things. So it's not obvious to you... phew. > > Are you saying that the shells of some are metal or the springs? > > The shells. Wow. Wish I could get one of those. I have several of the larger sized IBM ones and one that's about the size of a modern cheap keyboard, but still of the IBM Selectric style. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Tue Feb 17 16:16:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Tue Feb 17 16:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux statistics... Security studies... Message-ID: <1077062963.3139.17.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> How many people work in Linux/Unix specialties and what does the future look like? How many people use Linux now? A while back I heard that 11% of computer users run Linux on their desktop. What are the statistics on cracking as far as it's sophistication and spread looking like? Aside from Microsoft's arguably foolish we'll pay you to turn in a cracker, how is the developement of more affective deterrents coming along and what form will they take? With the level of cracker sophistication, are we talking geeks only or is artificial intelligence weighing in also? Are intelligent Linux systems on the horizon that actually adapt in a non preprogrammed manner to security threats? Not that anyone wants to see HAL come to life ;-) From AthlonRob at axpr.net Tue Feb 17 16:20:03 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Tue Feb 17 16:20:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <1077062591.4345.15.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1077062591.4345.15.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1077063544.6649.212.camel@dell.linux.box> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 16:03, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 15:54, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > So, can somebody tell me why the slapd Debian package REQUIRES X? That's > > kind of... well... fucked. > > That's really bad. But something you deal with when you deal with binary type distros... Rob From chris at maybe.net Tue Feb 17 16:33:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Tue Feb 17 16:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <20040218003211.GE20971@maybe.net> On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 03:54:30PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > So, can somebody tell me why the slapd Debian package REQUIRES X? That's > kind of... well... fucked. It's the libiodbc2 dependency. This is fixed in sarge and beyond. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From chris at maybe.net Tue Feb 17 16:43:03 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Tue Feb 17 16:43:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <20040218003211.GE20971@maybe.net> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <20040218003211.GE20971@maybe.net> Message-ID: <20040218004225.GG20971@maybe.net> On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 04:32:11PM -0800, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 03:54:30PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > So, can somebody tell me why the slapd Debian package REQUIRES X? That's > > kind of... well... fucked. > > It's the libiodbc2 dependency. This is fixed in sarge and beyond. And, FWIW, the woody slapd is pretty old. When I've run woody, I always took the sarge package and rebuilt a package for woody, or at least took the woody package and rebuild it with different configure options. :-) -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ehem at m5p.com Tue Feb 17 17:06:03 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Tue Feb 17 17:06:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <20040218000702.17657.15796.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <200402180104.i1I14Qar095030@m5p.com> > From: Jeme A Brelin > So, can somebody tell me why the slapd Debian package REQUIRES X? That's > kind of... well... fucked. Looking through the dependancy heirarchy... The slapd package depends upon the libiodbc2 package, which depends upon libgtk1.2. Looking at the libiodbc2 package, it turns out the program "iodbcadm-gtk" is the cause. Seems likely "iodbcadm-gtk" should be split out, as it is likely not required (or whoever wrote libiodbc2 needs to learn X isn't always handy in critical situations). -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 17:11:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 17 17:11:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1077066633.3324.35.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 15:14, Steve Bonds wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Bill Spears bspears-at-easystreet.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > > > ISA board: adaptec ava-1502 connected by a very wide ribbon > > cable to the drive. The red edge marker appears to be correctly > > oriented. > > Bill: > > You'll need to get the jumper settings off the card for the I/O port and > IRQ. Welcome back to the Bad Old Days before PCI became so widespread! > > Try this: > > insmod aha152x irq= io= debug=10 > > This might also help: > > http://www.google.com/linux?q=adaptec+ava-1502 > > I found the second link to be useful even though he's talking about a > scanner. > Yes, at least it's been interesting. I forgot all about isa buses. So from the card: irq can be 9 10 11 12. There is another jumper named alt, and printed on the card, "in=140h, out=340h". My irq is 11 and io port is 140h. So I'll put the card back in and try "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=140h debug=10" -- Bill Spears From pmvw at earthlink.net Tue Feb 17 17:41:02 2004 From: pmvw at earthlink.net (Piet van Weel) Date: Tue Feb 17 17:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux statistics... Security studies... In-Reply-To: <1077062963.3139.17.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <000e01c3f5c0$28f61e10$6400000a@gamma> Sure we do want HAL... "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that." -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Darkhorse Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:09 PM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG] Linux statistics... Security studies... How many people work in Linux/Unix specialties and what does the future look like? How many people use Linux now? A while back I heard that 11% of computer users run Linux on their desktop. What are the statistics on cracking as far as it's sophistication and spread looking like? Aside from Microsoft's arguably foolish we'll pay you to turn in a cracker, how is the developement of more affective deterrents coming along and what form will they take? With the level of cracker sophistication, are we talking geeks only or is artificial intelligence weighing in also? Are intelligent Linux systems on the horizon that actually adapt in a non preprogrammed manner to security threats? Not that anyone wants to see HAL come to life ;-) _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From bspears at easystreet.com Tue Feb 17 18:11:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Tue Feb 17 18:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 15:14, Steve Bonds wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Bill Spears bspears-at-easystreet.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > > > ISA board: adaptec ava-1502 connected by a very wide ribbon > > cable to the drive. The red edge marker appears to be correctly > > oriented. > > Bill: > > You'll need to get the jumper settings off the card for the I/O port and > IRQ. Welcome back to the Bad Old Days before PCI became so widespread! > > Try this: > > insmod aha152x irq= io= debug=10 > > This might also help: > > http://www.google.com/linux?q=adaptec+ava-1502 > > I found the second link to be useful even though he's talking about a > scanner. > > -- Steve > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" How do I make this automatic? BTW here is a thorough explanation that's over my head: http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/SCSI-2.4-HOWTO.html -- Bill Spears From bsr at spek.org Tue Feb 17 18:16:03 2004 From: bsr at spek.org (Brent Rieck) Date: Tue Feb 17 18:16:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <1077063544.6649.212.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1077062591.4345.15.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1077063544.6649.212.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <4032CAA1.4090406@spek.org> AthlonRob wrote: > But something you deal with when you deal with binary type distros... Gentoo has had the same problems AFAIR. --Brent From gepr at tempusdictum.com Tue Feb 17 18:26:01 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Tue Feb 17 18:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <16434.52256.860601.901058@eris.dischordia.net> Bill Spears writes: > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > How do I make this automatic? put "aha152x" in your /etc/modules file. put "options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" in /etc/modutils/aha152x run "update-modules" -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From AthlonRob at axpr.net Tue Feb 17 19:21:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Tue Feb 17 19:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] AT talk tomorrow? (and buckling spring keyboard) In-Reply-To: <4032CAA1.4090406@spek.org> References: <86r7wt2u2u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1077060012.4345.11.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1077062591.4345.15.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1077063544.6649.212.camel@dell.linux.box> <4032CAA1.4090406@spek.org> Message-ID: <1077074413.6659.216.camel@dell.linux.box> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 18:14, Brent Rieck wrote: > AthlonRob wrote: > > But something you deal with when you deal with binary type distros... > > Gentoo has had the same problems AFAIR. It may, for some packages... but they're easy enough to get around with your favorite text editor. Just fix the ebuild. :-) Rob From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 17 19:47:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 17 19:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Looking for experienced Java programmers (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:32:20 -0800 From: Bob Dietrich Greetings, I'm looking for some part-time Java programmers to help with a Web hosted service startup. Prefer 5+ years experience in Java, J2EE, Hibernate, JBoss, open source tools, etc. Send me your resume at bob at processpath.com if you're interested. Thanks. Bob From baloo at ursine.ca Tue Feb 17 20:41:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 17 20:41:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Great Linux Revolt of '04 Message-ID: <20040218043959.GC28879@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 http://www.linuxmafia.com/svlug/ This looks like something that would be fun to reproduce locally. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMuyfUzgNqloQMwcRAkzOAKC2lxy9acAgevC7uq8lhrXWPrqmwgCg4yEk 32J3gm5o/7cGQLKguypogoI= =+B9N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From heinlein at madboa.com Tue Feb 17 20:48:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Tue Feb 17 20:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > How do I make this automatic? What distribution are you using? Each one does module initialization in a (maddeningly) different way. -- Paul Heinlein From AthlonRob at axpr.net Tue Feb 17 20:57:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Tue Feb 17 20:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Great Linux Revolt of '04 In-Reply-To: <20040218043959.GC28879@ursine.ca> References: <20040218043959.GC28879@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1077080200.6666.229.camel@dell.linux.box> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 20:39, Paul Johnson wrote: > http://www.linuxmafia.com/svlug/ > > This looks like something that would be fun to reproduce locally. Well, I'd have to disagree. While I'm sure everybody had a good old time... they likely did as much harm as good for the linux movement. Rallies that get in people's faces, or get in their way, do not serve to convince people to side with the ralliers. They just piss people off. I don't want people to associate linux with "a bunch of geeks getting in my face while I ran in to Fry's to grab an ink cartridge" ... So, count me out. Rob From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 17 22:18:01 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 17 22:18:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <20040217182013.GD8447@ursine.ca> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040217174107.GC8447@ursine.ca> <1077040059.21526.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040217182013.GD8447@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <1077085046.21674.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 10:20, Paul Johnson wrote: > So I guess my hard drive shouldn't be working at all right now, eh? Not according to the WD site, or my personal experience. Hey, who am I to argue with what works? I've not seen it work that way before. -- Mike De La Mater Small Business Networks and Computers Your key to technology that works mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From baloo at ursine.ca Tue Feb 17 23:08:01 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 17 23:08:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: hardware problem (on a linux box) In-Reply-To: <1077085046.21674.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> References: <1076952440.19756.5.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040216200836.GL12520@ursine.ca> <1077006859.19756.56.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040217174107.GC8447@ursine.ca> <1077040059.21526.11.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> <20040217182013.GD8447@ursine.ca> <1077085046.21674.16.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> Message-ID: <20040218070753.GG28879@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 10:17:26PM -0800, Mike De La Mater wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 10:20, Paul Johnson wrote: > > So I guess my hard drive shouldn't be working at all right now, eh? > > Not according to the WD site, or my personal experience. > > Hey, who am I to argue with what works? I've not seen it work that way > before. That's just weird...I guess I should qualify that I'm talking about WD's Caviar line of drives. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMw9JUzgNqloQMwcRAuw0AJ0QT0yTqKQgaTa9v3cWmUTqva52lgCgmumb kM3/bJJ2aFXtzrG08gVyD5Y= =zcP+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Tue Feb 17 23:12:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 17 23:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Great Linux Revolt of '04 In-Reply-To: <1077080200.6666.229.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040218043959.GC28879@ursine.ca> <1077080200.6666.229.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040218071118.GH28879@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 08:56:40PM -0800, AthlonRob wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 20:39, Paul Johnson wrote: > > This looks like something that would be fun to reproduce locally. > > Well, I'd have to disagree. While I'm sure everybody had a good old > time... they likely did as much harm as good for the linux movement. > > Rallies that get in people's faces, or get in their way, do not serve to > convince people to side with the ralliers. They just piss people off. Well, I think they went a little overboard swamping a dead Fry's, but having seen other sets of photos right after it came out, I can say those were the worst reactions you saw there. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAMxAWUzgNqloQMwcRAtuYAJ9qDLJCdZde8+hef1Vzl8tQAA+35ACeJvH0 DpnG546Fdy3zb8NeoVL30R0= =/Zpr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From seniorr at aracnet.com Wed Feb 18 02:17:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Wed Feb 18 02:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Grand Unified Historical PLUG Mailing List Archive Project Message-ID: <86vfm4y9o9.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> I keep asking related questions, I should just come out and say what I am working on... Some considerable time ago (July 2001), I asked PLUG subscribers, particularly those of ancient abidance, for their archives of PLUG mailing list traffic. PLUG began nearly 10 years ago (see Message-ID: ), and much of its early mailing list traffic had scattered to the wind. Skylab had started to get a little dodgy. I wanted to sweep it all (as much as I could find) back up into a coherent pile again. I received contributions from 7 individuals besides myself, and have drawn on two existing archives (skylab's and drizzle's). I have made a few runs at consolidating this stuff before, and in the last few days I've started a new run at it. The goal is to consolidate, remove duplication, remove non-PLUG-list messages, and provide clean messages (reconstructing to the extent possible the form they had as they passed through the mailing list server by removing individualized delivery and other extraneous headers). In short, generic but suitable for further archeology. With a reasonably up-to-date drizzle archive (as of a few days ago) and all my other sources, I have 218,925 total articles of which 90,821 are unique message-id's (one message-id has 17 copies!). They are all currently sitting in a provisional Postgresql database table. Remaining (known) problems include: a) not all of those 90,000+ message-ids are PLUG list messages, and I don't want to pass along anything that wasn't originally public; b) many of the messages have delivery headers specific to those individuals that contributed their archive, as well as storage headers unique to their archive, whereas I want only the generic parts of the message headers; c) I want to be able to establish an accurate ordering of the messages; d) I want to identify missing messages; and e) I want to identify common authorship. Each of these problems and my general associated thinking is discussed below: Problem a) will probably be dealt with by querying the headers of all messages for plug-list signature items (To: lines, passing through the mailing list host, that sort of thing) and identifying/excluding those that lack "identifying marks". One of the ideas I have for dealing with problem b) is that for messages with multiple copies, find the common lines in all headers, and use those plus an appropriate '^From ' line (these will differ, but we need to have one). It's not quite as simple as that because of line folding. ** If anyone feels a burning need to suggest some Perl code for doing this, do _not_ allow me to stop you! ** (i.e., it is what I am working on now ;-) This strategy isn't going to suffice for cases where we only have one copy and it was delivered to an individual, but I am hoping that what I learn from what gets "thrown away" from the multi-copy resolution process will inform what I need to do in these remaining cases. There is a similar, if less serious, problem for differing message bodies. For example, in the case of the 17-copy message mentioned above, there are two variants. It appears the difference is limited to trailing white space (one variant looks like it has an extra \n). Still, in multiple copy cases, the bodies should be compared. Problem c) is complicated by the observation that "peoples clocks are often incoherent". The "Date:" header lines are unreliable (e.g. see the current mailman monthly archives with messages listed in January 1980, September 2006 and August 2019). A couple of things can help here: i) using the timestamps from the "Received:" header associated with the mailing list host. This clock might be wrong, but it is likely to be monotonicly increasing; ii) check using a "parent_id" (either from "In-Reply-To:" or "References:" headers) to ensure that antecedent messages really do occur earlier in the ordering. Problem d) can be accomplished, if imperfectly, by looking at "In-Reply-To:" and "References:" headers and seeing if those message-ids appear in the database, and then perhaps creating placeholder records for those not found. Problem e) is solved manually. Many individuals appear with slightly permuted "From:" lines. I want to create a table which links the variants to a common author_id. This will allow amusements like computation of posting frequency (FWIW, _not_ accounting for acknowledged message duplicates, Rich Shepard is _way_ out front quantitatively with 15,954 of the 218,925!). Basically, this will require looking through the list of "From:" lines and identifying the permutations and modifying the author table (or equivalent) accordingly. My zero-th order approximate end point for this project is just to recreate a global mbox, but it is easy to imagine some kind of web-interface to the database to enable searching, or just some html-ification that would allow Google to index it. General and/or specific comments, ideas, suggestions (even additional pre-1998-07 contributions) are welcome. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 18 08:52:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 18 08:52:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077123093.1029.1.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 20:47, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > > > How do I make this automatic? > > What distribution are you using? Each one does module initialization Fedora1 -- Bill Spears From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 18 09:23:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 18 09:23:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077123093.1029.1.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077123093.1029.1.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > > > > > How do I make this automatic? > > > > What distribution are you using? Each one does module initialization > > Fedora1 See the modules.conf(5) man page for the full story, but the short answer is to add this line to /etc/modules.conf: options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 -- Paul Heinlein From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 18 09:53:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 18 09:53:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077123093.1029.1.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077126773.1029.4.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 09:21, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > > > > > > > How do I make this automatic? > > > > > > What distribution are you using? Each one does module initialization > > > > Fedora1 > > See the modules.conf(5) man page for the full story, but the short > answer is to add this line to /etc/modules.conf: > > options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 > > -- Paul Heinlein I tried that, based on my modprobe success. I thought it didn't work but let me try it again. Bill Spears From bspears at easystreet.com Wed Feb 18 10:39:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Wed Feb 18 10:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077123093.1029.1.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077129538.1029.31.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 09:21, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > > > > > > > How do I make this automatic? > > > > > > What distribution are you using? Each one does module initialization > > > > Fedora1 > > See the modules.conf(5) man page for the full story, but the short > answer is to add this line to /etc/modules.conf: > > options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 > > -- Paul Heinlein > Nope, doesn't work. Is there something other than that line, an alias perhaps. Just for fun: lsmods:(before adding aha152x) Module Size Used by Not tainted ide-cd 32448 0 (autoclean) cdrom 32384 0 (autoclean) [ide-cd] mousedev 5012 1 (autoclean) input 5664 0 (autoclean) [mousedev] agpgart 51812 0 (unused) parport_pc 17188 1 (autoclean) lp 8196 0 (autoclean) parport 33952 1 (autoclean) [parport_pc lp] autofs 11156 0 (autoclean) (unused) tulip 40800 1 floppy 55036 0 (autoclean) sg 33772 0 (autoclean) (unused) scsi_mod 107496 1 (autoclean) [sg] loop 10808 0 (autoclean) lvm-mod 63552 0 ext3 65444 2 jbd 47564 2 [ext3] lsmod(after modprobe aha152x irq=11 io=0x140): Module Size Used by Not tainted nls_iso8859-1 3484 1 (autoclean) nls_cp437 5116 1 (autoclean) sd_mod 13004 2 (autoclean) vfat 11532 1 (autoclean) fat 36216 0 (autoclean) [vfat] aha152x 33848 1 ide-cd 32448 0 (autoclean) cdrom 32384 0 (autoclean) [ide-cd] mousedev 5012 1 (autoclean) input 5664 0 (autoclean) [mousedev] agpgart 51812 0 (unused) parport_pc 17188 1 (autoclean) lp 8196 0 (autoclean) parport 33952 1 (autoclean) [parport_pc lp] autofs 11156 0 (autoclean) (unused) tulip 40800 1 floppy 55036 0 (autoclean) sg 33772 0 (autoclean) (unused) scsi_mod 107496 3 (autoclean) [sd_mod aha152x sg] loop 10808 0 (autoclean) lvm-mod 63552 0 ext3 65444 2 jbd 47564 2 [ext3] -- Bill Spears From ed at alcpress.com Wed Feb 18 16:46:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Wed Feb 18 16:46:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MSN POP3 Message-ID: <1077152221.853.10725.camel@nat.alcpress.com> A friend uses MSN for e-mail and he wants to convert from Outlook to an Open Source program like Thunderbird running on Windows. He gets his mail from MSN via POP3. When he configures Thunderbird the same as Outlook, he's not able to connect. The problems seems to be the authentication protocol. Does anyone have details on this? Ed From garl.grigsby at ugsplm.com Wed Feb 18 16:53:02 2004 From: garl.grigsby at ugsplm.com (Grigsby, Garl) Date: Wed Feb 18 16:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MSN POP3 Message-ID: <159441354A896D4A8886543D5043BC31B229AA@uscimplm001.net.plm.eds.com> > A friend uses MSN for e-mail and he wants to convert from > Outlook to an Open Source program like Thunderbird running > on Windows. He gets his mail from MSN via POP3. When he > configures Thunderbird the same as Outlook, he's not able to > connect. The problems seems to be the authentication > protocol. Does anyone have details on this? MSN uses a non standard format for retrieving mail that only OE and MSN Explorer speak. There is a program called hotwayd that will translate from Microsoft's broken protocol to a standard pop3. I have used this in the past to get Hotmail using a standard client. Take a look at the following site for more information. Garl http://hotwayd.sourceforge.net/about/ From jack at bonyari.com Wed Feb 18 17:55:02 2004 From: jack at bonyari.com (Jack Morgan) Date: Wed Feb 18 17:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Web design help needed Message-ID: <20040219022305.GA27660@saitama.bonyari.com> I need to redesign my companies web site within the next couple weeks and I don't have time to do it all myself. I'm planning to use either Mason or Template Toolkit. Please email me off list for details: jackm AT pbgnw DOT com You will be paid for your efforts. Thanks, -- Jack Morgan pub 1024D/620F545F 2002-06-18 Jack Morgan Key fingerprint = B343 94EB 0658 E19B D91D 7EA5 15E1 FD24 620F 545F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ed at alcpress.com Wed Feb 18 18:39:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MSN POP3 In-Reply-To: <159441354A896D4A8886543D5043BC31B229AA@uscimplm001.net.plm.eds.com> References: <159441354A896D4A8886543D5043BC31B229AA@uscimplm001.net.plm.eds.com> Message-ID: <1077158983.1739.10860.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 16:51, Grigsby, Garl wrote: > > A friend uses MSN for e-mail and he wants to convert from > > Outlook to an Open Source program like Thunderbird running > > on Windows. He gets his mail from MSN via POP3. When he > > configures Thunderbird the same as Outlook, he's not able to > > connect. The problems seems to be the authentication > > protocol. Does anyone have details on this? > > MSN uses a non standard format for retrieving mail that only OE and MSN Explorer speak. There is a program called hotwayd that will translate from Microsoft's broken protocol to a standard pop3. I have used this in the past to get Hotmail using a standard client. Take a look at the following site for more information. > > Garl > > http://hotwayd.sourceforge.net/about/ Thank you. It's nice to know he has this option. I'm going to try to convince him to move from MSN. Ed From griffint at pobox.com Wed Feb 18 18:55:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks Message-ID: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> I'm just guessing from the activity in my mail logs over the past couple of days that all those MyDoom-infected machines are now being used for dictionary attacks. No doubt the spam will follow. So my question is, do you have any favorite tools for thwarting dictionary attacks? Thanks, Terry From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 18 18:59:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:59:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1077159507.6653.262.camel@dell.linux.box> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 18:54, Terry Griffin wrote: > I'm just guessing from the activity in my mail logs over the past couple > of days that all those MyDoom-infected machines are now being used for > dictionary attacks. No doubt the spam will follow. What service are they attacking? SMTP w/ Auth? POP3? IMAP? If the latter two, kill off the non-SSL ports completely... tunnel them with stunnel... be happy knowing your mail is more secure. :-) Rob From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 18 21:00:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 18 21:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Terry Griffin wrote: > I'm just guessing from the activity in my mail logs over the past > couple of days that all those MyDoom-infected machines are now being > used for dictionary attacks. No doubt the spam will follow. > > So my question is, do you have any favorite tools for thwarting > dictionary attacks? Greylisting: http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/. For a sample implementation, see David Skoll's post to the mimedefang mailing list: http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/pipermail/mimedefang/2003-September/016663.html -- Paul Heinlein From baloo at ursine.ca Wed Feb 18 21:37:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Wed Feb 18 21:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040219053642.GC25783@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 06:54:27PM -0800, Terry Griffin wrote: > So my question is, do you have any favorite tools for thwarting dictionary > attacks? Not having everything sent to a domain actually being accepted as a real user, as opposed to mail accounts only existing for real users, goes a long way. Same with non-dictionary usernames. Third-level names (like my old ursine.dyndns.org) tend to stay relatively spam-free; spammers don't seem to have a good grasp on DNS. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFANEtqUzgNqloQMwcRAgumAJsEjhNVbgpvFaJfBw/fHgicWsmn0QCgnhXB eBAIFvCbjPgCn2BSFvluG/c= =adHm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Wed Feb 18 22:30:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Wed Feb 18 22:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Web design help needed In-Reply-To: <20040219022305.GA27660@saitama.bonyari.com> References: <20040219022305.GA27660@saitama.bonyari.com> Message-ID: <1077172200.22813.27.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 18:23, Jack Morgan wrote: > I need to redesign my companies web site What kind of help are you looking for, structure, graphics, coding or all of the above? -- Mike De La Mater Small Business Networks and Computers Your key to technology that works mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From drl at drloree.com Wed Feb 18 23:15:03 2004 From: drl at drloree.com (Derek Loree) Date: Wed Feb 18 23:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: <1077129538.1029.31.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077123093.1029.1.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077129538.1029.31.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077175099.4394.3.camel@fastlinux.homenet> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 10:38, Bill Spears wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 09:21, Paul Heinlein wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > > > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > > > > > > > > > How do I make this automatic? > > > > > > > > What distribution are you using? Each one does module initialization > > > > > > Fedora1 > > > > See the modules.conf(5) man page for the full story, but the short > > answer is to add this line to /etc/modules.conf: > > > > options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 > > > > -- Paul Heinlein > > > Nope, doesn't work. Try adding aha152x to /etc/modules, leaving the options in modules.conf. Good Luck, Derek Loree From bspears at easystreet.com Thu Feb 19 07:38:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Thu Feb 19 07:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive. In-Reply-To: References: <20040217215153.BC0BF8EE4@tinman.seitzassoc.com> <1077056835.3324.13.camel@apollo.spears.org> <9508-58433@sneakemail.com> <1077070205.3324.41.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077123093.1029.1.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077205032.1029.43.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 09:21, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > > > > > > > How do I make this automatic? > > > > > > What distribution are you using? Each one does module initialization > > > > Fedora1 > > See the modules.conf(5) man page for the full story, but the short > answer is to add this line to /etc/modules.conf: > > options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 > > -- Paul Heinlein > I got it. add /etc/modules.conf post-install sg /sbin/modprobe -k aha152x -- Bill Spears From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Thu Feb 19 09:47:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Thu Feb 19 09:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... Message-ID: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> I need it for a three week perl class online where the instructor, Barbara Huseby, won't say anything about how to get it. Course officially starts the 23rd. When Ed taught his class, ordering the book was part of it. I sure wish that was standard practice at PCC. I just asked her if it was at the bookstore since I don't want to drive out to Sylvania from Scappoose if it isn't. Recommended reading A Little Book on Perl, Robert W. Sebesta, Prentice Hall, 0-13-927955-5 -- Michael C. Robinson From griffint at pobox.com Thu Feb 19 10:02:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Thu Feb 19 10:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077159507.6653.262.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077159507.6653.262.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <200402191001.20828.griffint@pobox.com> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 6:58 pm, AthlonRob wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 18:54, Terry Griffin wrote: > > I'm just guessing from the activity in my mail logs over the past couple > > of days that all those MyDoom-infected machines are now being used for > > dictionary attacks. No doubt the spam will follow. > > What service are they attacking? SMTP w/ Auth? POP3? IMAP? > > If the latter two, kill off the non-SSL ports completely... tunnel them > with stunnel... be happy knowing your mail is more secure. :-) > Only SMTP. Non-SSL ports for POP and IMAP were disabled long ago. From mikeraz at patch.com Thu Feb 19 10:40:03 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Thu Feb 19 10:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20040219183903.GC3257@patch.com> Are you sure your research skills are up to higher education? The book is available from: Amazon.com Powells.com BarnesAndNoble.com and others I don't want to take the time to verify Not that one would ever consider looking in book stores to find books... On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:40:06AM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > I need it for a three week perl class online where the instructor, > Barbara Huseby, won't say anything about how to get it. Course > officially starts the 23rd. When Ed taught his class, ordering > the book was part of it. I sure wish that was standard practice > at PCC. I just asked her if it was at the bookstore since I don't > want to drive out to Sylvania from Scappoose if it isn't. > > Recommended reading A Little Book on Perl, Robert W. Sebesta, Prentice > Hall, 0-13-927955-5 > > -- Michael C. Robinson > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: Democracy is good. I say this because other systems are worse. -- Jawaharlal Nehru From mikeraz at patch.com Thu Feb 19 10:57:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Thu Feb 19 10:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <20040219183903.GC3257@patch.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040219183903.GC3257@patch.com> Message-ID: <20040219185554.GF3257@patch.com> Everyone, I'm very sorry. That wasn't nice. Mr. Robinson was asking if the PCC bookstore had the title in stock. I should have suggested that he call the bookstore and ask them. They know the answer, the PCC bookstore number is online, that was really the information he needed. Not that the book can be purchased wherever one can find it, at a discount to the bookstore price. I apologize again. On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 10:39:03AM -0800, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > Are you sure your research skills are up to higher education? > > The book is available from: > Amazon.com > Powells.com > BarnesAndNoble.com > and others I don't want to take the time to verify > > Not that one would ever consider looking in book stores to find > books... > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:40:06AM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > > I need it for a three week perl class online where the instructor, > > Barbara Huseby, won't say anything about how to get it. Course > > officially starts the 23rd. When Ed taught his class, ordering > > the book was part of it. I sure wish that was standard practice > > at PCC. I just asked her if it was at the bookstore since I don't > > want to drive out to Sylvania from Scappoose if it isn't. > > > > Recommended reading A Little Book on Perl, Robert W. Sebesta, Prentice > > Hall, 0-13-927955-5 > > > > -- Michael C. Robinson -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster. - Voltaire From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Thu Feb 19 11:25:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Thu Feb 19 11:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on perl. Message-ID: <1077218283.10094.34.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 10:39, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > Are you sure your research skills are up to higher education? > The book is available from: > Amazon.com > Powells.com > BarnesAndNoble.com > and others I don't want to take the time to verify > Not that one would ever consider looking in book stores to find > books... I've already checked Barnes and Nobles. Part of the problem is that you take online courses for convenience where it is not convenient at all to have to go somewhere to pick up a book. As far as my research skills, I think there can be a lively debate about what research skills people with any higher education have and how affective or ineffective college programs are at improving those skills. For instance, how many colleges have any courses or self help on how to get a hold of some book online quickly? How many schools on the West Coast have abandoned books altogether in favor of e-books which don't have to be shipped or picked up? Another issue is that you should be able to get the book on the first day of class or within a few days of it's start. Clearly Barbara is putting up the info a little early, but it's beyond me why she doesn't suggest where to get a copy. As far as my research skills. Using a mailing list is a valid technique where I'm not going anywhere today to get a copy because I can't. I have a Calc III course going where I'm barely holding it. This is supposed to be a 1 credit course for fun where Barbara can't even get enough enrollment to allow people to drop without permission should they want or need to. Frankly, this is the first course ever where I've been enrollment locked, talked about a turn off. I don't appreciate an attitude that I should be tested at the cost of convenience when I need the convenience. As far as buying books in general to become knowledgeable, you can't afford to do this for long when you're unemployed. From AthlonRob at axpr.net Thu Feb 19 11:44:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Thu Feb 19 11:44:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <200402191001.20828.griffint@pobox.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077159507.6653.262.camel@dell.linux.box> <200402191001.20828.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1077219785.6161.1.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 10:01, Terry Griffin wrote: > On Wednesday 18 February 2004 6:58 pm, AthlonRob wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 18:54, Terry Griffin wrote: > > > I'm just guessing from the activity in my mail logs over the past couple > > > of days that all those MyDoom-infected machines are now being used for > > > dictionary attacks. No doubt the spam will follow. > > > > What service are they attacking? SMTP w/ Auth? POP3? IMAP? > > > > If the latter two, kill off the non-SSL ports completely... tunnel them > > with stunnel... be happy knowing your mail is more secure. :-) > > > Only SMTP. > Non-SSL ports for POP and IMAP were disabled long ago. Looking at other replies... I see I misunderstood what was happening. When I hear 'dictionary attacks' I immediately think password cracking, not email address guessing. :-) Rob From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Feb 19 11:52:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu Feb 19 11:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on perl. In-Reply-To: <1077218283.10094.34.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077218283.10094.34.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > For instance, how many colleges have any courses or self help on how > to get a hold of some book online quickly? How many schools on the > West Coast have abandoned books altogether in favor of e-books which > don't have to be shipped or picked up? Here at OGI, we don't have a bookstore. Some professors will bulk order an expensive book if doing so results in a substantial discount; otherwise, all students are expected to order their books online. --Paul Heinlein From doug at mindglow.net Thu Feb 19 12:39:02 2004 From: doug at mindglow.net (Doug Davis) Date: Thu Feb 19 12:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> On Feb 19, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Darkhorse wrote: > > Recommended reading A Little Book on Perl, Robert W. Sebesta, > Prentice > Hall, 0-13-927955-5 > > -- Michael C. Robinson > Powell's Tech books has it. http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=62-0139279555-3 They will even ship it if you don't want to drive. Honestly though... did you even look for this? It took me approx .1 minute to find this for you online. -- Doug Davis Macintosh for Productivity Linux for Development Palm for Mobility Windows for Solitaire -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2102 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Thu Feb 19 13:21:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Thu Feb 19 13:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Why did ~ break in bash vi mode? Message-ID: <1077225653.10056.45.camel@kat.zotnet.com> In RH9 and up, bash seems to have broken ~ while in vi mode... It used to change the case of the letter, now, it ummms, foobars the line like this (hitting ~ on the i of hitting): hittI^N^SB^H?^Q^Hng I am guess there is an oddball character between ^H and ^Q since it was not the command line but show in the cut and paste.... -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From m at phxlinux.org Thu Feb 19 14:02:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Thu Feb 19 14:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Why did ~ break in bash vi mode? In-Reply-To: <1077225653.10056.45.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > In RH9 and up, bash seems to have broken ~ while in vi mode... > > It used to change the case of the letter, now, it ummms, foobars the > line like this (hitting ~ on the i of hitting): > > hittI^N^SB^H?^Q^Hng > > I am guess there is an oddball character between ^H and ^Q since it was > not the command line but show in the cut and paste.... Everything works as it should on my RH9 and Fedora boxes... From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Thu Feb 19 14:15:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Thu Feb 19 14:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> Message-ID: <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 12:38, Doug Davis wrote: > On Feb 19, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Darkhorse wrote: > > > > Recommended reading A Little Book on Perl, Robert W. Sebesta, > > Prentice > > Hall, 0-13-927955-5 > > -- Michael C. Robinson > Powell's Tech books has it. > http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=62-0139279555-3 > They will even ship it if you don't want to drive. > Honestly though... did you even look for this? It took me approx .1 > minute to find this for you online. > Doug Davis I checked Powell's. It's in a warehouse, 2-7 days shipping. It costs just as much to pick up at Sylvania minus shipping, I just checked. No I don't want to drive out to Sylvania, and yes I really do think that a course should be designed with the idea that you pick the book up when the course starts. There's no reason I can think of that the syllabus shouldn't say the book is available at the bookstore, especially if it's cheaper to get it there than it is to order it. The class starts on Monday, so a 7 day shipping window won't work. I expect guranteed two day shipping from places that are within 30 miles of where I live, oh well. If the book is at Powell's in downtown Portland, I didn't see this on Powells.com. A trip to Sylvania for math tutoring might not be a bad idea anyways. I'll just get the book tomorrow. From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Feb 19 14:24:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu Feb 19 14:24:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Why did ~ break in bash vi mode? In-Reply-To: <1077225653.10056.45.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1077225653.10056.45.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > In RH9 and up, bash seems to have broken ~ while in vi mode... > > It used to change the case of the letter, now, it ummms, foobars the > line [...] Zot, Are you running this instance of your shell locally, or over an ssh connection? The reason I ask is that OpenSSH's ssh client uses ~ as the escape character. See the 'Escape Characters' section of ssh(1) for the gory details. --Paul Heinlein From ed at alcpress.com Thu Feb 19 14:36:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Thu Feb 19 14:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1077230793.28328.22.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:07, Darkhorse wrote: > ...yes I really do think that a > course should be designed with the idea that you pick the book up when > the course starts. There's no reason I can think of that the syllabus > shouldn't say the book is available at the bookstore, especially if it's > cheaper to get it there than it is to order it. I don't think this discussion is germane to the PLUG list in any way but I have to agree with Darkhorse on this one point. I try to always include book purchase information in my syllabus and if students can't get the book during the first week of the course, I either post the first chapter of the book on my web site or spend the first week on material not in the book. Also, note that he's talking about a distance learning class that probably costs him more than an on-campus class. Distance learning students have every right to expect a little more convenience. Ed From AthlonRob at axpr.net Thu Feb 19 14:44:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Thu Feb 19 14:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1077230598.6232.9.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:07, Darkhorse wrote: > I don't want to drive out to Sylvania, and yes I really do think that a > course should be designed with the idea that you pick the book up when > the course starts. There's no reason I can think of that the syllabus > shouldn't say the book is available at the bookstore, especially if it's > cheaper to get it there than it is to order it. The class starts on > Monday, so a 7 day shipping window won't work. A few things... Did you say this was a distance-learning class? If so, then you may be able to assume there are students from all over the place taking the class, right? Now, with that assumption in mind... what bookstore would you suggest the professor instruct her students to look at? Should somebody in Montana be told the book is in Portland? I think not. You're in college now. This isn't high school. It is assumed students in college have the motivation and intelligence to go find books they need for a course. It was *clearly* demonstrated to you the book is *very* easy to find, if you are so motivated. If I remember the thread correctly, you know of two physical places within an hour of where you live you can pick the book up at. There are a plethora of online retailers who have the book for you. You mention time constraints... I thought you'd been taking college courses for a few years now? How many classes have you attended where the professor assumed the students in the course had the book before the third class session? I can count the number of times that's happened to me on one hand. It is an unwritten rule you really don't need the book until the third class session. Hell, in my experience, you can make it through a CS course just fine without a book at all! The writers of the books probably got most of their material from the web, anyway. I think it is time to step up and take a little bit of responsibility for yourself here, Michael. It isn't the professor's job to hand hold you through everything related to taking a course... her job is to teach you in class and make sure your tests/papers/projects are graded. My two and a half cents. Rob From ramunro at speakeasy.net Thu Feb 19 17:19:02 2004 From: ramunro at speakeasy.net (Robert Munro) Date: Thu Feb 19 17:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Ssci zip drive Message-ID: <1077239911.3365.128.camel@griffin> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 at 23:18, Derek Loree wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 10:38, Bill Spears wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 09:21, Paul Heinlein wrote: > > > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ok it's working "insmod aha152x irq=11 io=0x140" > > > > > > > > > > > > How do I make this automatic? > > > > > > > > > > What distribution are you using? Each one does module > initialization > > > > > > > > Fedora1 > > > > > > See the modules.conf(5) man page for the full story, but the short > > > answer is to add this line to /etc/modules.conf: > > > > > > options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 > > > > > > -- Paul Heinlein > > > > > Nope, doesn't work. > > Try adding aha152x to /etc/modules, leaving the options in > modules.conf. But /etc/modules just identifies modules to load at boot time, which is not needed (unless he *wants* to boot from his scsi zip drive, that is). I'd suggest trying instead, within /etc/modules.conf: options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 probeall scsi_hostadapter aha152x OR options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 probeall scsi_mod aha152x OR options aha152x irq=11 io=0x140 above aha152x The reason being that scsi device modules need base scsi interface code. If Fedora doesn't use the generic scsi_hostadapter, scsi_mod might work, or failing that, "above aha152x" modules resolution might do the trick. Regards, Robert Munro -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 19:38:01 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Thu Feb 19 19:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] VNC Message-ID: Dear All: I have VNC server running on a linux box and I am trying to connect to that linux box at :0 from another box (as the client). I cannot connect and the message was saying that there are no VNC server running at :0. I tried to launch, on the server end, a VNC server on :0 but it always said that there is already one running (when there isn't run, other than the X server). So VNC server always start on :1 (if I don't designate any option). Does that mean I cannot connect to VNC_SERVER:0? Or is there a config step that I miss? thanks for any tip... ==Vincent _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Feb 19 19:39:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu Feb 19 19:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Checkinstall and Slackware-9.1 Message-ID: For those who don't know, checkinstall is a replacement for 'make install' when building an executable from a source tarball. Checkinstall will build a package (Red Hat, Slackware or Debian), then install it. This registers the application in the package database and lets us manipulate it as we would any other installed package. It's a great tool. When I use it on my Red Hat 7.3 system it produces both .src.rpm and .i386.rpm for me to use as I wish. I could even rebuild the .src.rpm for a specific architecture. However, when I run the version that comes with the Slackware distribution disks, it apparently builds and installs the package, but the remaining .tgz is not a full package; it's only a few hundred bytes in size. Does anyone know why this is? More importantly, how do I get a package built on one machine that can be moved and installed on another machine? TIA, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From AthlonRob at axpr.net Thu Feb 19 19:47:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Thu Feb 19 19:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Checkinstall and Slackware-9.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077248777.6223.23.camel@dell.linux.box> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 19:38, Rich Shepard wrote: > However, when I run the version that comes with the Slackware distribution > disks, it apparently builds and installs the package, but the remaining .tgz > is not a full package; it's only a few hundred bytes in size. > > Does anyone know why this is? More importantly, how do I get a package > built on one machine that can be moved and installed on another machine? What is it you're building? What's in that few-hundred-byte-long file? Might be a bug in checkinstall, or the program you're building might be doing something funky. When I make packages (I've put three up on Linuxpackages.net so far), I don't use checkinstall... I configure and make as normal, then make install DESTDIR=/tmp/build_root and then I cd to /tmp/build_root, set things up (documentation, slack-desc, permissions), then do a makepkg. Rob From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Thu Feb 19 19:58:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Thu Feb 19 19:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] VNC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077249454.2798.12.camel@timmy> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 19:37, Vincent Yau wrote: > So VNC server always start on :1 (if I don't designate any option). > > Does that mean I cannot connect to VNC_SERVER:0? Or is there a config step > that I miss? My guess is that VNC detects your regular X session and refuses to take the same number as that session. I have never had any problems with using :1 for my VNC servers. Why would you need to run VNC on :0? Evan From danh at fork.com Thu Feb 19 20:32:01 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Thu Feb 19 20:32:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Announcement: Linux Clinic this Saturday Message-ID: *** Portland Linux User's Group (PLUG) Announcement *** The Linux Clinic - third Saturday of every month Interested in Linux? Need help installing or configuring Linux? Be sure to attend the next session of the Linux Clinic. Linux Clinic February 21, 2004 1PM - 4PM Riverdale High School 9727 SW Terwilliger Blvd, Portland, Oregon What to bring: * Your computer, monitor, keyboard and mouse. * Any relevant peripherals (printer, modem, etc). * Your Linux distribution (if you have already installed). * The manuals for your hardware - especially your monitor manual. Resources available: * Volunteers skilled in Linux installation and maintenance. * T-1 (or better :) Internet connection * phone jacks for testing modem and Internet setups. * Ethernet drops. * Infocus projector for demonstrations. * An extra Linux box for experimenting. * A number of reference materials For directions to the school see: http://hs.riverdale.k12.or.us/directions.html For questions regarding the Clinics email Dan Haskell at: dhaskell at acm.org For information about PLUG or the Clinics see: http://www.pdxlinux.org From sean at harbours.us Thu Feb 19 21:50:02 2004 From: sean at harbours.us (Sean Harbour) Date: Thu Feb 19 21:50:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Announcement: Linux Clinic this Saturday - MythTV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33354.10.0.0.100.1077256127.squirrel@10.0.0.9> I'll be bringing my Mandrake 9.2/MythTV box to try and smooth out some of the details, if anyone else is interested. -- Sean Harbour sean at harbours.us http://www.harbours.us From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Fri Feb 20 00:39:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 20 00:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Why did ~ break in bash vi mode? In-Reply-To: References: <1077225653.10056.45.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <1077266320.11242.26.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:23, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > > The reason I ask is that OpenSSH's ssh client uses ~ as the escape > character. See the 'Escape Characters' section of ssh(1) for the gory > details. No, read carefully, it is not '~' that is the escape char, but '~' It only escapes if you hit return, then ~. [And clearly that is not what I am doing, since I am editing] -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Fri Feb 20 00:44:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Fri Feb 20 00:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Why did ~ break in bash vi mode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077266584.11242.31.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 13:28, Matt Alexander wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > > > In RH9 and up, bash seems to have broken ~ while in vi mode... > > > > It used to change the case of the letter, now, it ummms, foobars the > > line like this (hitting ~ on the i of hitting): > > > > hittI^N^SB^H?^Q^Hng > > > > I am guess there is an oddball character between ^H and ^Q since it was > > not the command line but show in the cut and paste.... > > Everything works as it should on my RH9 and Fedora boxes... You are doing this in vi mode? I just tested on a console and it hit. Interestingly, it only did this on the RH9 boxes, not the FC1 boxes. /etc/inputrc is the same for both.... > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 20 06:33:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 06:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Why did ~ break in bash vi mode? In-Reply-To: <1077266584.11242.31.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 13:28, Matt Alexander wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > > > > > In RH9 and up, bash seems to have broken ~ while in vi mode... > > > > > > It used to change the case of the letter, now, it ummms, foobars the > > > line like this (hitting ~ on the i of hitting): > > > > > > hittI^N^SB^H?^Q^Hng > > > > > > I am guess there is an oddball character between ^H and ^Q since it was > > > not the command line but show in the cut and paste.... > > > > Everything works as it should on my RH9 and Fedora boxes... > > You are doing this in vi mode? Yup. Can you think of anything else that would affect your key behavior? From cstevens at gencom.us Fri Feb 20 08:08:01 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Fri Feb 20 08:08:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] VNC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077292037.1502.1.camel@sparticus> Vincent, xf4vnc for :0 support in X. http://xf4vnc.sourceforge.net/ -Coop On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 19:37, Vincent Yau wrote: > Dear All: > > I have VNC server running on a linux box and I am trying to connect > to that linux box at :0 from another box (as the client). I cannot connect > and the message was saying that there are no VNC server running at :0. > > I tried to launch, on the server end, a VNC server on :0 but it always > said that there is already one running (when there isn't run, other than the > X server). > So VNC server always start on :1 (if I don't designate any option). > > Does that mean I cannot connect to VNC_SERVER:0? Or is there a config step > that I miss? > > thanks for any tip... > > ==Vincent > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From linux at chrisroberts.org Fri Feb 20 08:18:01 2004 From: linux at chrisroberts.org (chris) Date: Fri Feb 20 08:18:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <200402200825.40201.linux@chrisroberts.org> just wanted to note that there are much better books out there on perl than A Little Book on Perl. Also, the book is really not needed for the class. There are many tutorials online that will more than take care of anything that you need to know for this class. This class is _very_ basic. If you are going to actually spend money on a perl book, i would highly recommend getting something that has more substance than this book. chris On Thursday 19 February 2004 09:40 am, Darkhorse wrote: > I need it for a three week perl class online where the instructor, > Barbara Huseby, won't say anything about how to get it. Course > officially starts the 23rd. When Ed taught his class, ordering > the book was part of it. I sure wish that was standard practice > at PCC. I just asked her if it was at the bookstore since I don't > want to drive out to Sylvania from Scappoose if it isn't. > > Recommended reading A Little Book on Perl, Robert W. Sebesta, Prentice > Hall, 0-13-927955-5 > > -- Michael C. Robinson > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 08:49:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 08:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] yenta problem in boot process Message-ID: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> I have a computer with Fedora1 installed that is having trouble booting. Specifically, it stalls just after reporting something about yenta's irq. The line after that says socket 3000001 or something close to that. This boot failure also happens when I boot from the boot disk I made when I installed Fedora. Fortunately, it will boot in the rescue mode from the Fedora1 install CD. I did notice that the socket return was different, more like 3000004. I'll check the two socket returns if it matters. Anyone? -- Bill Spears From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 20 08:58:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 20 08:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] yenta problem in boot process In-Reply-To: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077296229.18565.813.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 08:48, Bill Spears wrote: > I have a computer with Fedora1 installed that is having trouble > booting. Specifically, it stalls just after reporting something about > yenta's irq. The line after that says socket 3000001 or something > close to that. This boot failure also happens when I boot from the boot > disk I made when I installed Fedora. > > Fortunately, it will boot in the rescue mode from the Fedora1 install > CD. I did notice that the socket return was different, more like > 3000004. > > I'll check the two socket returns if it matters. > > Anyone? Is this the same computer you put the ISA SCSI card into? Is this a laptop or otherwise PCMCIA-enabled system? A couple of guesses: You've set the SCSI card's IRQ to be the same as the PCMCIA controller. Or you don't have a PCMCIA contoller, in which case, you can disable PCMCIA start-up with 'chkconfig pcmcia off'. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Sophos Anti-Virus Reseller http://nakedape.cc/r/sav * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 20 08:59:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 20 08:59:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] yenta problem in boot process In-Reply-To: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > yenta's irq. The line after that says socket 3000001 or something ^^^^^ > Anyone? Well, d'oh! Don't you know Yiddish? yenta n 1: (Yiddish) a vulgar shrew; a shallow coarse termagant 2: (Yiddish) a woman gossip unable to keep a secret; a woman who spreads rumors and scandal Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 09:31:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 09:31:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] yenta problem in boot process In-Reply-To: <1077296229.18565.813.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077296229.18565.813.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1077298254.1029.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 08:57, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 08:48, Bill Spears wrote: > > I have a computer with Fedora1 installed that is having trouble > > booting. Specifically, it stalls just after reporting something about > > yenta's irq. The line after that says socket 3000001 or something > > close to that. This boot failure also happens when I boot from the boot > > disk I made when I installed Fedora. > > > > Fortunately, it will boot in the rescue mode from the Fedora1 install > > CD. I did notice that the socket return was different, more like > > 3000004. > > > > I'll check the two socket returns if it matters. > > > > Anyone? > > Is this the same computer you put the ISA SCSI card into? Is this a > laptop or otherwise PCMCIA-enabled system? A couple of guesses: You've > set the SCSI card's IRQ to be the same as the PCMCIA controller. Or you > don't have a PCMCIA contoller, in which case, you can disable PCMCIA > start-up with 'chkconfig pcmcia off'. > > Wil This is a laptop. I can only think of two things that may be relevant: 1) I added more memory. But it had been working after this. 2) It's battery finally quit and it shutdown while connected to the LAN. 3) I just ordered an expensive battery for it, God hates me and decided to make it die at this time. From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 10:24:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 10:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Missing /dev/cdrom Message-ID: <1077301440.1029.8.camel@apollo.spears.org> I went to mount a cdrom as: # mount /dev/cdrom and it said there was no such device. I've done this many times before so I don't know what could have happened. This is a CD-RW drive with the option hdc=ide-scsi installed. fstab has the correct line for /dev/cdrom. There was a lot of this:(dmesg) ide-scsi: hdc: unsupported command in request queue (0) end_request: I/O error, dev 16:00 (hdc), sector 0 ide-scsi: hdc: unsupported command in request queue (0) end_request: I/O error, dev 16:00 (hdc), sector 2 Does this make any sense? -- Bill Spears From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 20 10:35:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 20 10:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Missing /dev/cdrom In-Reply-To: <1077301440.1029.8.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077301440.1029.8.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > I went to mount a cdrom as: # mount /dev/cdrom and it said there was no > such device. I've done this many times before so I don't know what > could have happened. This is a CD-RW drive with the option hdc=ide-scsi > installed. > fstab has the correct line for /dev/cdrom. Bill, In /dev, do you have a softlink from /dev/sda -> /dev/cdrom? Looks to me as though the link might have broken. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 10:49:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 10:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Missing /dev/cdrom In-Reply-To: References: <1077301440.1029.8.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077302941.1029.14.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 10:34, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > I went to mount a cdrom as: # mount /dev/cdrom and it said there was no > > such device. I've done this many times before so I don't know what > > could have happened. This is a CD-RW drive with the option hdc=ide-scsi > > installed. > > fstab has the correct line for /dev/cdrom. > > Bill, > > In /dev, do you have a softlink from /dev/sda -> /dev/cdrom? Looks to me > as though the link might have broken. > > Rich Thanks, Rich. I already fixed it. I thought it must be something exotic, but I decided that maybe I just deleted /dev/cdrom somehow. So I remade the link and everything works. I guess the ide-scsi part makes me a little nervous. I'm not sure whether hdc is ide or scsi, or whether hdc is the same as scd0 which may be the same as sda1. Anyhoo, it works. -- Bill Spears From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 20 11:40:03 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 20 11:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... - my final word In-Reply-To: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20040220193731.GB14955@patch.com> On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:40:06AM -0800, Darkhorse wrote: > I need it for a three week perl class online where the instructor, > Barbara Huseby, won't say anything about how to get it. Hmmmm, I emailed Ms. Huseby and quickly received this reply: The book should be in the bookstore at PCC Sylvania. It is an optional text. You will not have any reading assignments from the text. Thanks for the information. So: a) it is not needed for the class b) the instructor will say something about how to get it -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: The late rebellion in Massachusetts has given more alarm than I think it should have done. Calculate that one rebellion in 13 states in the course of 11 years, is but one for each state in a century and a half. No country should be so long without one. -- Thomas Jefferson in letter to James Madison, 20 December 1787 From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 12:52:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 12:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems Message-ID: <1077306965.1029.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> I currently have two phone lines, one for fax and one for voice. My DSL is attached to the fax line. I want to discontinue the fax line (I get a lot of junk fax). Upon talking to the 'trainee' at Qwest I'm told that I need a new modem (Action Teck 1524) in order move the DSL to the other line. I currently have a Cisco 678 and am quite happy with it. Any comments? -- Bill Spears From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 12:55:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 12:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] yenta problem in boot process In-Reply-To: <1077296229.18565.813.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077296229.18565.813.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1077310493.1029.26.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 08:57, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 08:48, Bill Spears wrote: > > I have a computer with Fedora1 installed that is having trouble > > booting. Specifically, it stalls just after reporting something about > > yenta's irq. The line after that says socket 3000001 or something > > close to that. This boot failure also happens when I boot from the boot > > disk I made when I installed Fedora. > > > > Fortunately, it will boot in the rescue mode from the Fedora1 install > > CD. I did notice that the socket return was different, more like > > 3000004. > > > > I'll check the two socket returns if it matters. > > > > Anyone? > > Is this the same computer you put the ISA SCSI card into? Is this a > laptop or otherwise PCMCIA-enabled system? A couple of guesses: You've > set the SCSI card's IRQ to be the same as the PCMCIA controller. Or you > don't have a PCMCIA contoller, in which case, you can disable PCMCIA > start-up with 'chkconfig pcmcia off'. > > Wil Thanks Wil, I fixed it. I think some files got munged when it crashed. I booted with the Fedora install, chrooted, killed off pcmcia with chkconfig, rebooted, fiddled around a bit more, but for now it boots fine. -- Bill Spears From omega at pdxcolo.net Fri Feb 20 13:02:02 2004 From: omega at pdxcolo.net (Erik Walthinsen) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems In-Reply-To: <1077306965.1029.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077306965.1029.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077310919.887.3.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 12:51, Bill Spears wrote: > I currently have two phone lines, one for fax and one for voice. My DSL > is attached to the fax line. I want to discontinue the fax line (I get > a lot of junk fax). Upon talking to the 'trainee' at Qwest I'm told > that I need a new modem (Action Teck 1524) in order move the DSL to the > other line. I currently have a Cisco 678 and am quite happy with it. The 678 and the ActionTec should both be DMT modems, so I would expect that you should not need a new modem at all. Just Qworst giving you a line, either intentionally or (more likely) because the tech has no idea. I would suggest that you push really hard for them to do as much testing as possible on your main line before moving it though, because you may very well get stuck having to put it back on the original line. Depending on where you are in relation to your Central Office, the two lines may take entirely different routes and have completely different signal characteristics. From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 20 13:09:01 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? Message-ID: Is there a program for Linux that will allow me to easily drag-n-drop HTML form elements onto a page? I'm creating different documents that have tons of radio buttons and checkboxes and menus and textfields and... and... and it'd be a lot easier if I could do this sort of thing in a GUI. On a side-note, does anyone know why Mozilla Composer doesn't provide the ability to create HTML form elements? Thanks, ~M From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 20 13:13:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:13:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Is there a program for Linux that will allow me to easily drag-n-drop > HTML form elements onto a page? > > I'm creating different documents that have tons of radio buttons and > checkboxes and menus and textfields and... and... and it'd be a lot > easier if I could do this sort of thing in a GUI. Why don'tcha just generate the form programmatically in perl with CGI.pm? You just write a little loop and read in your data file (containing button values and commentary text) and it goes. Doesn't even need to be a dynamic page, just write the code, run the script and save the output. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From allyn at well.com Fri Feb 20 13:45:02 2004 From: allyn at well.com (Mark Allyn) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:45:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Web/Webmin/GUI front end for either Amanda or Dirvish Message-ID: Hi: I am looking at both Amanda and Dirvish (or Dervsh) for a backup recovery solution. According to the documentation, Amanda has an X based gui front end. I cannot, however, find any WEB based (preferably a Webmin module) front end for either backup tool. Does anyone out there know of any web/webmin front ends for Amanda or Dirvish? Or does anyone know of any GPL backup/restore system that has a WEB or Webmin front end to it. I am working on a project where I am hoping to relieve the end user of any required command line (shell) interactions. Thank you Mark Allyn allyn at well.com From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 20 13:50:04 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:50:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Web/Webmin/GUI front end for either Amanda or Dirvish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Mark Allyn wrote: > I am working on a project where I am hoping to relieve the end user > of any required command line (shell) interactions. Write a script to replace whatever it was they did? ;-) From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 14:04:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Cisco 678 Message-ID: <1077314567.1029.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> How do I use the serial port connection on the Cisco for cbos management? I've connected it, but I have no idea what to do next. -- Bill Spears From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 20 14:04:18 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:04:18 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Web/Webmin/GUI front end for either Amanda or Dirvish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Mark Allyn wrote: > I am looking at both Amanda and Dirvish (or Dervsh) for a backup recovery > solution. > I am working on a project where I am hoping to relieve the end user > of any required command line (shell) interactions. Mark, Why not set up a cron job so no UI is necessary? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 20 14:26:01 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] yenta problem in boot process In-Reply-To: References: <1077295709.1027.5.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040220222158.GB16268@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 08:58:10AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > yenta's irq. The line after that says socket 3000001 or something > ^^^^^ > > Anyone? > > Well, d'oh! Don't you know Yiddish? > > yenta > n 1: (Yiddish) a vulgar shrew; a shallow coarse termagant > 2: (Yiddish) a woman gossip unable to keep a secret; a woman > who spreads rumors and scandal Hmmm, in that case I would have expected the error to read: yenta's IRC not available . . . :) -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." - Bert Lantz From allyn at well.com Fri Feb 20 14:30:02 2004 From: allyn at well.com (Mark Allyn) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:30:02 2004 Subject: Oops - wasRe: [PLUG] Web/Webmin/GUI front end for either Amanda or Dirvish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks and Oops: Thanks to all of those who have responded to my question. I think I mis-asked the question. I do plan to have a cron script do the daily/weekly backups themselves. That's not the issue. The issue for me is to have it easy as possible for them to do a file recovery. Here is the scenario that I envision. A manager comes crying on the shoulder of the secretary (who is the sysadmin) and needs a file restored that was accidentaly erased. The sysadmin/secretary is not a linux/unix savvy person. They want/need a gui/web based front end to enable them to do the restore as painlessly as possible. What I am looking for is more of a web/gui front end to do file restores and unplanned backups (the manager wants the grant proposal that he/she slaved over during the past several hours to be backed up right away before it's erased by mistake). Thank you Mark Allyn From bspears at easystreet.com Fri Feb 20 14:33:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Cisco 678 In-Reply-To: <1077314567.1029.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077314567.1029.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077316333.1029.31.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 14:02, Bill Spears wrote: > How do I use the serial port connection on the Cisco for cbos > management? I've connected it, but I have no idea what to do next. Never mind. I got minicom to work. -- Bill Spears From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 20 14:43:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:43:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Web/Webmin/GUI front end for either Amanda or Dirvish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86hdxlz82u.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Allyn writes: Mark> I am looking at both Amanda and Dirvish (or Dervsh) for a backup Mark> recovery solution. Mark> According to the documentation, Amanda has an X based gui front Mark> end. Mark> I cannot, however, find any WEB based (preferably a Webmin Mark> module) front end for either backup tool. Mark> Does anyone out there know of any web/webmin front ends for Mark> Amanda or Dirvish? Mark> Or does anyone know of any GPL backup/restore system that has a Mark> WEB or Webmin front end to it. Mark> I am working on a project where I am hoping to relieve the end Mark> user of any required command line (shell) interactions. Checkout BackupPC. Has a nice web interface for doing user self-recovery as well as administration. It is particularly good for backups of lots of identical content (e.g. a bunch of PC's with the same system files), because of the interesting way it stores the data. Works with unix boxes via tar or rsync, or windows boxes via SMB. That said, I don't use it myself, but it sounds like a good match for your problem. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Fri Feb 20 14:57:01 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:57:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077230598.6232.9.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077230598.6232.9.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1077317392.15574.49.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:43, AthlonRob wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:07, Darkhorse wrote: > > > I don't want to drive out to Sylvania, and yes I really do think that a > > course should be designed with the idea that you pick the book up when > > the course starts. There's no reason I can think of that the syllabus > > shouldn't say the book is available at the bookstore, especially if it's > > cheaper to get it there than it is to order it. The class starts on > > Monday, so a 7 day shipping window won't work. > > A few things... > > Did you say this was a distance-learning class? If so, then you may be > able to assume there are students from all over the place taking the > class, right? Now, with that assumption in mind... what bookstore would > you suggest the professor instruct her students to look at? Should > somebody in Montana be told the book is in Portland? I think not. Geez, I already pointed this out myself as a reason why I like Ed's online courses that include ordering the text as part of the coursework. Not that you're paying attention to everything I've said. > You're in college now. This isn't high school. It is assumed students > in college have the motivation and intelligence to go find books they > need for a course. It was *clearly* demonstrated to you the book is > *very* easy to find, if you are so motivated. If I remember the thread > correctly, you know of two physical places within an hour of where you > live you can pick the book up at. There are a plethora of online > retailers who have the book for you. > You mention time constraints... I thought you'd been taking college > courses for a few years now? How many classes have you attended where > the professor assumed the students in the course had the book before the > third class session? I can count the number of times that's happened to > me on one hand. It is an unwritten rule you really don't need the book > until the third class session. Hell, in my experience, you can make it > through a CS course just fine without a book at all! The writers of the > books probably got most of their material from the web, anyway. There are CS courses many people can't get through at all, book or no book. One of these is Karla Fant's 202 course. As far as insulting a person on how long they've been in college, at least when I graduate I'm more likely to be current than someone who finished say three years ago. At least I have the guts to pursue something after multiple cases of harassment and disappointment unlike a person who holds that college is either 4 years or bust. In the long run, the time factor isn't going to be an issue. Heck, there may even be an economy when I get out. > I think it is time to step up and take a little bit of responsibility > for yourself here, Michael. It isn't the professor's job to hand hold > you through everything related to taking a course... her job is to teach > you in class and make sure your tests/papers/projects are graded. > > My two and a half cents. The smart people are those willing to ask dumb questions and pursue avenues that make their responsibilities lighter even if someone like Rob decides to harangue them for it. For crying out loud I asked about a book people, just a book. > Rob You just ignored the earlier part of the thread that said it would have been better to tell me it's at the bookstore. I did check some of the suggestions, there wasn't a gurantee I'd get the book on time for the course. As far as the Montana comment, why would I be taking classes in a school situated in the middle of religion haters' paradise if I lived there? Chances are, if I lived in Montana, that I'd be a conservative interested in distance learning through colleges in more conservative regions. Why don't you grow up and stop tearing other people down? As far as hand holding, I've literally held the hand of another adult when she needed it where I'm not ashamed of that at all. There are some adults who believe it's okay to reach out to other adults for help and information compared to those who pursue personal isolation as a pride issue. As far as taking responsibility, at least I'm ignoring you staying on a list I can benefit from. Not that it's any of Rob's business, but going out to Sylvania and buying the book wasn't a bad idea since that trip gave me a chance to go to the tutoring center there. In general, maybe asking about a perl book here is a way of saying that I'm studying perl in a good place to say it. Rob, your reply is as low as Brelin's castigation of an old elderly woman complaining that computers didn't exist in her day. Reminds me of the castigation of Quayle, it shows that a great deal of social decay is evident in some of the individuals who participate on this list. From danh at fork.com Fri Feb 20 15:04:01 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Fri Feb 20 15:04:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Is there a program for Linux that will allow me to easily drag-n-drop > HTML form elements onto a page? > > I'm creating different documents that have tons of radio buttons and > checkboxes and menus and textfields and... and... and it'd be a lot > easier if I could do this sort of thing in a GUI. Bluefish is a GUI based WYSIWIG editor with strong support for web programming - including HTML, Javascript, PHP, and CSS. Perhaps it will do what you want? http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ Dan From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 20 15:26:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 20 15:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077317392.15574.49.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077230598.6232.9.camel@dell.linux.box> <1077317392.15574.49.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1077319544.6222.62.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 14:49, Darkhorse wrote: > There are CS courses many people can't get through at all, book or no > book. One of these is Karla Fant's 202 course. Many many people have passed Karla's CS 202 course. I think a single case of somebody not being able to pass the course when most people *do* pass the course is more of an indicator of that single person than of the course itself. In my experience, Karla has been more than fair in her grading. > As far as insulting a > person on how long they've been in college, at least when I graduate I'm > more likely to be current than someone who finished say three years > ago. I'm sorry if you felt I was insulting how long you've been in college. I'm really the last one to speak ... I started schooling at PSU in the fall of 2000 and am just now a Junior. :-) Your time in college has surely shown you, however, that you don't need a book on the first day of class (which was, actually, what I was trying to say). > At least I have the guts to pursue something after multiple cases > of harassment and disappointment unlike a person who holds that college > is either 4 years or bust. In the long run, the time factor isn't going > to be an issue. Heck, there may even be an economy when I get out. Most people take five years to complete a four year degree these days... especially a technical degree. We're far enough off topic now, I think. I'm through with the thread... if you wish to address anything else I've said in this email, I would encourage you to email me off list. I haven't blocked you yet. Rob From danh at fork.com Fri Feb 20 16:03:01 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Fri Feb 20 16:03:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Dan Haskell wrote: > Bluefish is a GUI based WYSIWIG editor with strong support for web > programming - including HTML, Javascript, PHP, and CSS. Perhaps it will do > what you want? > > http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ Doh. Maybe WYSIWYG wasn't a good description. It does have wizard-like interfaces for creating form elements (radio buttons, selects, etc.) Personally, I would probably write scripts to do the coding for me. As Dave is fond of saying: "real men don't write programs, they write programs that write programs". Dan From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 20 16:15:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 20 16:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Dan Haskell wrote: > Personally, I would probably write scripts to do the coding for me. As > Dave is fond of saying: "real men don't write programs, they write > programs that write programs". Dan, Then you want to look carefully at the evolutionary algorithm literature. There are models that write computer code and keep evolving the code until it is optimal. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 20 16:38:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 20 16:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86y8qxxo7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Rich" == Rich Shepard writes: Dan> Personally, I would probably write scripts to do the coding for Dan> me. As Dave is fond of saying: "real men don't write programs, Dan> they write programs that write programs". Rich> Then you want to look carefully at the evolutionary algorithm Rich> literature. There are models that write computer code and keep Rich> evolving the code until it is optimal. I've got a video of John Koza (not sure exactly why, it appeared magically in the mail a while after I'd purchased his book) presenting his Genetic Programming ideas. Maybe I'll bring it to the clinic tomorrow. Does Riverdale HS have a VCR? -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From danh at fork.com Fri Feb 20 17:19:01 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:19:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: <86y8qxxo7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: On 20 Feb 2004, Russell Senior wrote: > I've got a video of John Koza (not sure exactly why, it appeared > magically in the mail a while after I'd purchased his book) presenting > his Genetic Programming ideas. Maybe I'll bring it to the clinic > tomorrow. Does Riverdale HS have a VCR? Wow. From Koza's page on GP (http://www.genetic-programming.com): "There are now 36 instances where genetic programming has automatically produced a result that is competitive with human performance, including 15 instances where genetic programming has created an entity that either infringes or duplicates the functionality of a previously patented 20th-century invention, 6 instances where genetic programming has done the same with respect to a 21st-century invention, and 2 instances where genetic programming has created a patentable new invention." Riverdale *must* have a VCR. The trouble will be finding time to watch the video while the Clinic is in session. Dan From alan at clueserver.org Fri Feb 20 17:23:02 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems In-Reply-To: <1077306965.1029.22.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > I currently have two phone lines, one for fax and one for voice. My DSL > is attached to the fax line. I want to discontinue the fax line (I get > a lot of junk fax). Upon talking to the 'trainee' at Qwest I'm told > that I need a new modem (Action Teck 1524) in order move the DSL to the > other line. I currently have a Cisco 678 and am quite happy with it. Did they say why you needed the new modem? If it is because of the change to a different DSL mode, the 678 should be able to do it. (I had to do that to one modem.) Is it possible to get a more technical response other than "because i said so"? From alan at clueserver.org Fri Feb 20 17:25:02 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems In-Reply-To: <1077310919.887.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Erik Walthinsen wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 12:51, Bill Spears wrote: > > I currently have two phone lines, one for fax and one for voice. My DSL > > is attached to the fax line. I want to discontinue the fax line (I get > > a lot of junk fax). Upon talking to the 'trainee' at Qwest I'm told > > that I need a new modem (Action Teck 1524) in order move the DSL to the > > other line. I currently have a Cisco 678 and am quite happy with it. > > The 678 and the ActionTec should both be DMT modems, so I would expect > that you should not need a new modem at all. Just Qworst giving you a > line, either intentionally or (more likely) because the tech has no > idea. The instructions to change modes on the 678 is in the back of the 678 manual. It is pretty easy. Requires a serial port and terminal app and maybe that weird serial cable. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 20 17:33:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Dan Haskell wrote: > "There are now 36 instances where genetic programming has automatically > produced a result that is competitive with human performance, including 15 > instances where genetic programming has created an entity that either > infringes or duplicates the functionality of a previously patented > 20th-century invention, 6 instances where genetic programming has done the > same with respect to a 21st-century invention, and 2 instances where > genetic programming has created a patentable new invention." Of course, none of these came out of Redmond, you know. :-) Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From alan at clueserver.org Fri Feb 20 17:34:01 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:34:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Cisco 678 In-Reply-To: <1077314567.1029.29.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > How do I use the serial port connection on the Cisco for cbos > management? I've connected it, but I have no idea what to do next. Connect to the serial port with minicom. You should get a prompt from the Cisco IOS. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 20 17:38:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Dan Haskell wrote: > Wow. From Koza's page on GP (http://www.genetic-programming.com): Dan, et al., If you want to read more about GP, I can recommend "AI Application Programming" by M. Tim Jones and "An Introduction to Genetic Algorithms" by Melanie Mitchell (the best introduction to the subject). Mitchell's book has a specific section on evolving computer programs. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 20 17:40:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:40:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] DOSBox. Message-ID: I just installed DOSBox and unpacked an old floppy containing Civilization. See you all in two weeks. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From seniorr at aracnet.com Fri Feb 20 17:42:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Fri Feb 20 17:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Genetic Programming (John Koza) video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ekspxl8s.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Dan" == Dan Haskell writes: Russell> I've got a video of John Koza (not sure exactly why, it Russell> appeared magically in the mail a while after I'd purchased Russell> his book) presenting his Genetic Programming ideas. Maybe Russell> I'll bring it to the clinic tomorrow. Does Riverdale HS have Russell> a VCR? Dan> Wow. From Koza's page on GP (http://www.genetic-programming.com): Dan> "There are now 36 instances where genetic programming has Dan> automatically produced a result that is competitive with human Dan> performance, including 15 instances where genetic programming has Dan> created an entity that either infringes or duplicates the Dan> functionality of a previously patented 20th-century invention, 6 Dan> instances where genetic programming has done the same with Dan> respect to a 21st-century invention, and 2 instances where Dan> genetic programming has created a patentable new invention." Yeah. The technique is also fairly easy to parallelize. There are some patents on the technique, but the upside is they should expire in the next few years. Dan> Riverdale *must* have a VCR. The trouble will be finding time to Dan> watch the video while the Clinic is in session. I was thinking maybe we could just put it on during the clinic and people can watch it or not. I did manage to dig the tape out of the closet. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us Fri Feb 20 18:08:02 2004 From: eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us (Eric Harrison) Date: Fri Feb 20 18:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, alan wrote: >On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > >> I currently have two phone lines, one for fax and one for voice. My DSL >> is attached to the fax line. I want to discontinue the fax line (I get >> a lot of junk fax). Upon talking to the 'trainee' at Qwest I'm told >> that I need a new modem (Action Teck 1524) in order move the DSL to the >> other line. I currently have a Cisco 678 and am quite happy with it. > >Did they say why you needed the new modem? If it is because of the change >to a different DSL mode, the 678 should be able to do it. (I had to do >that to one modem.) > >Is it possible to get a more technical response other than "because i said >so"? Anyone know if this is the case with a 675 as well? I just moved my DSL over to another line and so far no joy. (too busy to call and whine) Now that I know it may be a config issue, I do believe I'll spend several hours mucking with it. May be useless, but a hellava lot more interesting than talking to Qwest. -Eric From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 20 18:24:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 20 18:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077330223.25945.25.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 18:31, Eric Harrison wrote: > Anyone know if this is the case with a 675 as well? I just moved my DSL > over to another line and so far no joy. (too busy to call and whine) No. The 675 only does CAP; the 678 does CAP and DMT. DMT is the new encoding and is better from what I've read, so it's not an entirely boneheaded move on their part (although it was a move that happened several years ago). Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Sophos Anti-Virus Reseller http://nakedape.cc/r/sav * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 20 18:25:03 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 20 18:25:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] DOSBox. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040221022435.GB18192@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 05:39:32PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > I just installed DOSBox and unpacked an old floppy containing > Civilization. Explanation: Jeme has a wicked cold, that's why he didn't just install freeciv. OK, maybe he likes the AI in the DOS version better. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: He who laughs, lasts. From root at loraksus.org Fri Feb 20 20:30:02 2004 From: root at loraksus.org (Karol Kulaga) Date: Fri Feb 20 20:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems In-Reply-To: <1077330223.25945.25.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: Apparently there is a hack for 675 to 678 conversion. I understand that it has a bit of risk of making a paperweight, but hey. . . you need to replace the 675 anyways - and it makes a very nice paperweight. More info to follow. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 20 21:44:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 20 21:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040221054318.GA13989@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 01:36:35PM -0700, Matt Alexander wrote: > Is there a program for Linux that will allow me to easily drag-n-drop HTML > form elements onto a page? > > I'm creating different documents that have tons of radio buttons and > checkboxes and menus and textfields and... and... and it'd be a lot > easier if I could do this sort of thing in a GUI. > > On a side-note, does anyone know why Mozilla Composer doesn't provide the > ability to create HTML form elements? XHTML1 compliant editors would be preferred, HTML4 is as old as HTML2 was when HTML4 came out... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFANu/2UzgNqloQMwcRAq2dAJ9kWpsrriBN4KV360AvQ5u1xUJaNACeJnP1 vAu0lr/tH1IeW0v+Bf7kgAU= =yMMX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us Fri Feb 20 22:02:02 2004 From: eharrison at mail.mesd.k12.or.us (Eric Harrison) Date: Fri Feb 20 22:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Qwest, dsl modems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Karol Kulaga wrote: >Apparently there is a hack for 675 to 678 conversion. I >understand that it has a bit of risk of making a >paperweight, but hey. . . you need to replace the 675 >anyways - and it makes a very nice paperweight. > >More info to follow. I gave Google a spin and everything I found said that the 675 is lacking the physical hardware required to do DMT. Anyone have a 678 they want to sell? ;-) -Eric From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 20 22:13:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 20 22:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040221061245.GB13989@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 04:14:01PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Then you want to look carefully at the evolutionary algorithm literature. > There are models that write computer code and keep evolving the code until > it is optimal. Heheh, I remember when my buddy Dan had done a programming project for one of his classes back in high school involving genetic programming. The school provided him with an old 486 (aka Pizza Boxes there, since all the 486s had a case that was the same area but a little thicker than a pizza box). Good thing he was keeping his source on floppy disk and making sure there was no floppy in the drive when he ran the compiled code, eventually some of the "winning" programs won because they eliminated the others in the process, which would then evolve into a more virulant form. He toasted the OS on that box at least four times that I know of in the process of this project... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFANvbdUzgNqloQMwcRAu9VAJ9/EIdlVzd4EnJKevo9dMkEMKrHZQCg4yGS VFDPQrPWIprEDJMovPOiyd4= =XLQ4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From baloo at ursine.ca Fri Feb 20 22:31:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Fri Feb 20 22:31:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: <86y8qxxo7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <86y8qxxo7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <20040221063040.GC13989@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 04:37:13PM -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > Does Riverdale HS have a VCR? Likely a fleet of them. They, unfortunately, replaced Super 8mm projectors around the time I was in fifth grade in Beaverton Schools. What the Super 8 lacked in audio quality, it made up for in picture size and just plain watch-ability. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFANvsQUzgNqloQMwcRAnMTAJ9RRFF/o84BUYstijIj2sYjD9tOigCfSR7p jv+0XTvQY4J7ioYGJZjQ84Y= =00lv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Fri Feb 20 22:51:01 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Fri Feb 20 22:51:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] LVM in Linux 2.6.3 Message-ID: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> On the recommendation of a friend, I am trying to update my desktop machine to the brand-new 2.6.3 kernel. However, I am having some troubles with LVM. All of my partitions, except for /, are in one big volume group. The 2.6 menuconfig includes an option for "device mapper support." The help for this option says that higher level volume manager such as LVM2 use that driver. Gentoo provides an ebuild called 'lvm2', but I don't have it installed. How can I tell if I use lvm 1 or 2, and how can I get support for whatever I have in the 2.6 kernel? Thanks, Evan From pmvw at earthlink.net Fri Feb 20 22:53:02 2004 From: pmvw at earthlink.net (Piet van Weel) Date: Fri Feb 20 22:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] VNC In-Reply-To: <1077292037.1502.1.camel@sparticus> Message-ID: <000001c3f847$54a39900$6400000a@gamma> Vincent... I'm running many vnc sessions on my servers here at the house. What I have encountered here is that when the X server is running and there is already a GUI on the local screen (:0) then you need to utilize (:1) (Gee, it looks like I'm face happy today) I'm currently running :1 :2 :3 all on the same box. (Different resolutions.) What exactly does your .vnc/:.log file say? Piet van Weel -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of D. Cooper Stevenson Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:47 AM To: PLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [PLUG] VNC Vincent, xf4vnc for :0 support in X. http://xf4vnc.sourceforge.net/ -Coop On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 19:37, Vincent Yau wrote: > Dear All: > > I have VNC server running on a linux box and I am trying to connect to > that linux box at :0 from another box (as the client). I cannot > connect and the message was saying that there are no VNC server > running at :0. > > I tried to launch, on the server end, a VNC server on :0 but it always > said that there is already one running (when there isn't run, other > than the X server). So VNC server always start on :1 (if I don't > designate any option). > > Does that mean I cannot connect to VNC_SERVER:0? Or is there a config > step > that I miss? > > thanks for any tip... > > ==Vincent > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 21 01:22:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 21 01:22:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: <20040221063040.GC13989@ursine.ca> References: <86y8qxxo7a.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <20040221063040.GC13989@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 04:37:13PM -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > > Does Riverdale HS have a VCR? > > Likely a fleet of them. Unless they've moved onto something a bit higher tech... > They, unfortunately, replaced Super 8mm projectors around the time I was > in fifth grade in Beaverton Schools. What the Super 8 lacked in audio > quality, it made up for in picture size and just plain watch-ability. I don't think so. I'm pretty sure all those educational films were 16mm. Super 8 was the stuff you took to the beach when I was a tot. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sat Feb 21 02:35:03 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sat Feb 21 02:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] A little book on Perl... In-Reply-To: <1077319544.6222.62.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1077212406.10094.10.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <97768F34-631B-11D8-82FD-000A956B9AFA@mindglow.net> <1077228477.11589.12.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077230598.6232.9.camel@dell.linux.box> <1077317392.15574.49.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077319544.6222.62.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1077359249.17587.128.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 15:25, AthlonRob wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 14:49, Darkhorse wrote: > > There are CS courses many people can't get through at all, book or no > > book. One of these is Karla Fant's 202 course. > Many many people have passed Karla's CS 202 course. I think a single > case of somebody not being able to pass the course when most people *do* > pass the course is more of an indicator of that single person than of > the course itself. If fair is all you care about. Last I talked with her, she was wondering why so many didn't pass 202, including me, especially considering that I passed the midterm and final. It's her assignments that are too difficult. As far as the tutors that term they clearly had passed the course, but they were excessively lazy and nowhere to be seen for a good month. In four weeks time, the programming backlog got so overwhelming there was no way I was getting anywhere. When they did show up, they treated the class like a pack of losers and were mostly noncommittal to any actual tutoring. If Karla's fair, she's unapproachable. She didn't come off as a woman in any condition to help students when I worked with her. Nonetheless, I've passed three of her courses. Karla's just plain mean with her assignments where it's arguably her teaching style to be that way. Her stories tell you that too though, my favorite being about some coworker starting to ask her a question only to frantically answer it herself before Karla could reply ( probably because Karla was more frightening than the problem ). She's a great person, it's just that her courses hurt. I didn't care for her personal comments against her own parents in 202 the winter term before, but I guess a person has to have a shell against that sort of thing. I tried 202 before C got pulled out of it, I don't know what it's like now at PSU or even who offers it. Maybe with newfound confidence and some help I'd go back and give cs202 another shot. I'd have to be readmitted first, guess a degree earned after being academically dismissed helps. I tried to argue an issue against a lawyer, Chris Carey. He opposed me to the point of things getting extremely ugly.( three inches from my face yelling at me in front of the whole class. ) Needless to say, I was rattled and didn't speak incredibly well. I'm not necessarily planning on a computer related degree anymore. Lack of support and my highly unrealistic chances of finishing in C.S. weigh heavily on me. I am far less interested than I was even three months ago. If I could accomplish anything in the CS field, I'd make computer science a 4 year degree again. In CS and even math courses, how many professors design the curriculum taking into account that it might be hard for a student to find a tutor capable of revealing the subtleties which unlock the rest? Many professors want students to figure stuff out on their own without their help. In reality, it's best if courses are designed to be more doable without tutors compensating for poorly written textbooks. You can only hear something once, yet it can be read about in a well written text many times. It's not unreasonable to think a professional wants to be able to pick up a book and refresh on a topic from reading about it alone later. It's also seemingly reasonable for a professor to study what students ask tutors and simply hand this stuff to everyone the first day of class or distribute these answers/explanations on a web page. We're far enough off topic now, I think. I'm through with the thread... if you wish to address anything else I've said in this email, I would encourage you to email me off list. I haven't blocked you yet. Rob The other replies have been friendly. I'm also done posting to the list on this thread. I hope my postings encourage people to reach out to others and not come down hard when it's unnecessary to do so or there's more to know than what is immediately evident. I have the little book on perl and have perused it some already. I've experienced socket programming with perl thanks to help from this list. While the course is not the depth of perl I want, it's a step in the right direction at least. I have zero database training which I want to change soon, though I haven't figured out how to go about that yet. I want to take the equivalent of Calculus based physics term 1 at PSU because that's what's causing most of my trouble there. I have to pass it at PSU to get the grade changed,. I didn't know the rules the way I should have back in 2000 where I was being yelled at by none other than the registar or some admissions counselor that first term. I thought I had to do what she said. Physics probably isn't something I want to take a fifth crack at until I've completed a four year degree. Without retaking physics at PSU, I don't see how I can ever have a decent gpa there or even graduate from there. If your allowed a W for a course that is paid for but not finished the same should be allowed for a flunked course. Michael C. Robinson From heinlein at madboa.com Sat Feb 21 07:20:03 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Sat Feb 21 07:20:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] LVM in Linux 2.6.3 In-Reply-To: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> References: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > On the recommendation of a friend, I am trying to update my desktop > machine to the brand-new 2.6.3 kernel. However, I am having some > troubles with LVM. All of my partitions, except for /, are in one > big volume group. > > The 2.6 menuconfig includes an option for "device mapper support." > The help for this option says that higher level volume manager such > as LVM2 use that driver. > > Gentoo provides an ebuild called 'lvm2', but I don't have it > installed. How can I tell if I use lvm 1 or 2, and how can I get > support for whatever I have in the 2.6 kernel? I don't have much useful information to add, but I do know that migrating LVM volumes from 2.4 to 2.6 is apparently a major hurdle in the development of Fedora Core 2. IOW, you're not alone... -- Paul Heinlein From jack at bonyari.com Sat Feb 21 07:21:01 2004 From: jack at bonyari.com (Jack Morgan) Date: Sat Feb 21 07:21:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] LVM in Linux 2.6.3 In-Reply-To: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> References: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <20040221154831.GA3652@saitama.bonyari.com> On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:50:38PM -0800, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > Gentoo provides an ebuild called 'lvm2', but I don't have it installed. > How can I tell if I use lvm 1 or 2, and how can I get support for > whatever I have in the 2.6 kernel? You can find most answers to Gentoo specific questions in the Gentoo forumns. I found this... http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=125571&highlight=lvm2 Hope this helps, -- Jack Morgan pub 1024D/620F545F 2002-06-18 Jack Morgan Key fingerprint = B343 94EB 0658 E19B D91D 7EA5 15E1 FD24 620F 545F -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 21 07:53:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 21 07:53:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: <20040221061245.GB13989@ursine.ca> References: <20040221061245.GB13989@ursine.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Paul Johnson wrote: > Heheh, I remember when my buddy Dan had done a programming project for one > of his classes back in high school involving genetic programming. The > school provided him with an old 486 (aka Pizza Boxes there, since all the > 486s had a case that was the same area but a little thicker than a pizza > box). Good thing he was keeping his source on floppy disk and making sure > there was no floppy in the drive when he ran the compiled code, eventually > some of the "winning" programs won because they eliminated the others in > the process, which would then evolve into a more virulant form. He > toasted the OS on that box at least four times that I know of in the > process of this project... Well, at least he could use the knowledge and experience to become a Microsoft-virus writer. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From kyle at silverbeach.net Sat Feb 21 09:08:02 2004 From: kyle at silverbeach.net (Kyle Hayes) Date: Sat Feb 21 09:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] LVM in Linux 2.6.3 In-Reply-To: <20040221154831.GA3652@saitama.bonyari.com> References: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> <20040221154831.GA3652@saitama.bonyari.com> Message-ID: <200402210907.34508.kyle@silverbeach.net> On Saturday 21 February 2004 07:48, Jack Morgan wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:50:38PM -0800, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > > Gentoo provides an ebuild called 'lvm2', but I don't have it > > installed. How can I tell if I use lvm 1 or 2, and how can I get > > support for whatever I have in the 2.6 kernel? > > You can find most answers to Gentoo specific questions in the > Gentoo forumns. I found this... > > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=125571&highlight=lvm2 > > Hope this helps, As noted in these forum posts (the Gentoo ones), LVM is quite a bit different in 2.6 than it was. It is no longer all in the kernel. Instead, the kernel supports a low level thing called device mapper that does the grunt work of tying volumes together and doing the sector mapping. On top of that, in userspace, is a set of tools that do things like device discovery. EVMS and LVM have been rewritten to work on top of device mapper. LVM2 is the new userspace portion of LVM. I think that LVM2/DM supports both a new format and the old one. I think your existing drives should work, but it will take a little twiddling. I haven't used LVM in 2.6 yet. I may just move to EVMS as it doesn't involve bit kernel patches anymore (all in userspace). Best, Kyle From m at phxlinux.org Sat Feb 21 10:06:03 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Sat Feb 21 10:06:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ttysnoop? Message-ID: Has anyone used ttysnoop? http://www.linuxhelp.net/guides/ttysnoop/ I'm wondering how you would configure it to monitor ssh sessions. Thanks, ~M From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Sat Feb 21 10:25:03 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Sat Feb 21 10:25:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] DOSBox. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9176-93511@sneakemail.com> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin jeme-at-brelin.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > I just installed DOSBox and unpacked an old floppy containing > Civilization. > > See you all in two weeks. After you're done with that, you might try this old classic: http://sc2.sourceforge.net/ Ah, good ol' Star Control 2. I'm still hoping for a Star Control 4, and everyone wants to pretend that Star Control 3 didn't happen. ;-) -- Steve From lemming at quirkyqatz.com Sat Feb 21 10:44:02 2004 From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark) Date: Sat Feb 21 10:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] DOSBox. In-Reply-To: <9176-93511@sneakemail.com> References: <9176-93511@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <4037A6C9.4040503@quirkyqatz.com> Steve Bonds wrote: > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin jeme-at-brelin.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > > >>I just installed DOSBox and unpacked an old floppy containing >>Civilization. >> >>See you all in two weeks. > > After you're done with that, you might try this old classic: > > http://sc2.sourceforge.net/ > > Ah, good ol' Star Control 2. I'm still hoping for a Star Control 4, and > everyone wants to pretend that Star Control 3 didn't happen. ;-) I liked SC3. From heinlein at madboa.com Sat Feb 21 11:45:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Sat Feb 21 11:45:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OETC seeks IT Director Message-ID: In case anyone is looking for a job, the Oregon Educational Technology Consortium (OETC) is looking for an IT Director: http://www.oetc.org/jobs.html#itd The OETC server room is a mixed bag of Darwin, Linux, and Windows. I don't know what's on the desktops, though I suspect you'll find plenty of Macs. I've done some consulting for OETC; it's a nice organization. The director, Aaron, is a world-class guy. -- Paul Heinlein From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Sat Feb 21 11:49:01 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Sat Feb 21 11:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] LVM in Linux 2.6.3 In-Reply-To: <20040221154831.GA3652@saitama.bonyari.com> References: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> <20040221154831.GA3652@saitama.bonyari.com> Message-ID: <1077392935.1724.3.camel@timmy> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 07:48, Jack Morgan wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 10:50:38PM -0800, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > > Gentoo provides an ebuild called 'lvm2', but I don't have it installed. > > How can I tell if I use lvm 1 or 2, and how can I get support for > > whatever I have in the 2.6 kernel? > > > You can find most answers to Gentoo specific questions in the Gentoo > forumns. I found this... > > http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=125571&highlight=lvm2 > > Hope this helps, Thanks. I have performed the emerges recommended on that site, and I'm crossing my fingers, hoping i'll be able to come back up. If you don't see another message from me soon, start mourning ;-) Evan From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Sat Feb 21 12:16:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Sat Feb 21 12:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] LVM in Linux 2.6.3 In-Reply-To: <1077392935.1724.3.camel@timmy> References: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> <20040221154831.GA3652@saitama.bonyari.com> <1077392935.1724.3.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <1077394572.1683.7.camel@timmy> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 11:48, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > Thanks. I have performed the emerges recommended on that site, and I'm > crossing my fingers, hoping i'll be able to come back up. I'm back up, but not with 2.6.3. There has been some progress: vgscan now correctly finds the volume group 'vg'. vgchange -a y fails to run unless I modprobe dm-mod (this is good because it indicates that I have the right version of the lvm utilities), but it fails differently once the module is loaded: # vgchange -a y device-mapper ioctl cmd 0 failed: Invalid argument 0 logical volume(s) in volume group "vg" now active # I am trying to track this down through google (and the gentoo forums), but I'm posting here in case this error is familiar to someone. Evan From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Sat Feb 21 12:22:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Sat Feb 21 12:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] LVM in Linux 2.6.3 In-Reply-To: <1077394572.1683.7.camel@timmy> References: <1077346237.1775.323.camel@timmy> <20040221154831.GA3652@saitama.bonyari.com> <1077392935.1724.3.camel@timmy> <1077394572.1683.7.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <1077394879.1683.11.camel@timmy> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 12:16, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > I am trying to track this down through google (and the gentoo forums), > but I'm posting here in case this error is familiar to someone. Looks like I found it: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=111943&highlight=devicemapper+ioctl+cmd "I had the same problem here. I solved it by adding "Device Drivers ---> Multi-device support (RAID and LVM) ---> ioctl interface version 4" in the kernel configuration." Now to rebuild, reboot, and cross fingers again. Evan From baloo at ursine.ca Sat Feb 21 12:29:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sat Feb 21 12:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Easily creating lots of HTML form elements? In-Reply-To: References: <20040221061245.GB13989@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040221202841.GC12289@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 07:51:32AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Well, at least he could use the knowledge and experience to become a > Microsoft-virus writer. Eh, he had way too high an ethical standard to do that. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAN795UzgNqloQMwcRAjzDAKCED6djnKFWzgjHRwVIBy/5W4JkQwCePPJy ygSPrSB1dprU1fJQ3lJLAZg= =miAn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 21 16:19:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionaries for ispell/aspell Message-ID: Anyone know the file name(s) for the dictionaries used by ispell and aspell? Also is there a tool for editing those dictionaries to remove accidently mis-spelled words? I didn't see answers to either of these in the man page. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sat Feb 21 18:43:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sat Feb 21 18:43:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 20:58, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Terry Griffin wrote: > > > I'm just guessing from the activity in my mail logs over the past > > couple of days that all those MyDoom-infected machines are now being > > used for dictionary attacks. No doubt the spam will follow. > > > > So my question is, do you have any favorite tools for thwarting > > dictionary attacks? > > Greylisting: http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/. For a sample > implementation, see David Skoll's post to the mimedefang mailing list: > > http://lists.roaringpenguin.com/pipermail/mimedefang/2003-September/016663.html > > -- Paul Heinlein > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug So perl 5.0.8 is required, the part that says a database should be used makes me wonder. I get the impression that all that is needed is a list of unique triplets built up over time. What version of postfix supports gray listing? Is there a list out there of violator MTA's that don't retry transmission? Why do certain MTA's fail to retry? To a certain degree, shouldn't ISP's be containing virus based spam better? There could be a requirement that you can run a mail server but have to go through an ISP controlled relay to go outside of your own network. This would cut down on spam since the spammers could get filtered at the source by their own service providers. The obvious thing to do that won't violate civil rights is to check for non content based signs of spamming at this ISP relay hub. I say give an smtp relay at the ISP on a nonstandard port and block outbound traffic for ports not normally used by clients, including the standard smtp port. Allow people to have their own mailservers that can go out, just make sure they have to use your smart relay to do so so that you can prevent outbound spamming. If someone is spammed but can always trace back to an ISP and the ISP's are made responsible, the spam problem can be minimized. If noone sends email onto the Internet from a private server, unsolicited email can be completely banned or restricted to safe forms by ISP level controls. This would mean licensing all ISP's and going after the ones that don't control their users. I think the ISP's should be licensed and be the only ones allowed to put email out on the Internet. How in Postfix do I restrict to sending through mail exchangers instead of directly out? It may be easier to set up a graylisting relay than modifying my existing hub is. All I want to control is who the smtp port is open to, my main server already virus checks. What percentage of Internet content providers that are legit use sites and hosting services that also support spamming? From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 21 21:10:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 21 21:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > To a certain degree, shouldn't ISP's be containing virus based spam > better? More control has almost never meant happier results. > The obvious thing to do that won't violate civil rights is to check for > non content based signs of spamming at this ISP relay hub. Uh, the decision that something is spam is a content-based decision. There is no separation. > I say give an smtp relay at the ISP on a nonstandard port and block > outbound traffic for ports not normally used by clients, including the > standard smtp port. You mean "change the standard". > If someone is spammed but can always trace back to an ISP and the ISP's > are made responsible, the spam problem can be minimized. At what cost? > If noone sends email onto the Internet from a private server, > unsolicited email can be completely banned or restricted to safe forms > by ISP level controls. So only state authorized email can transit the internet. Freakin' brilliant. > This would mean licensing all ISP's and going after the ones that don't > control their users. I think the ISP's should be licensed and be the > only ones allowed to put email out on the Internet. And through this licensing procedure and narrowing of the internet's scope, you've just given a single point of control over all internet email to whatever power structure you've created. You've just taken something beautifully decentralized and open and closed up and made it proprietary. And, of course, you have totally ignored the fact that licensing authorities are not worldwide while the internet is. I still submit that the forced closing of mail relays has only intensified the spam problem and narrowed the functionality of the internet with no benefit in return. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From steve at out-of-control.com Sat Feb 21 21:42:02 2004 From: steve at out-of-control.com (Steve Nelson) Date: Sat Feb 21 21:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> As I have mentioned before -- I normally lurk here (which doesn't mean that I don't have opinions -- I do). I have to say that Jeme has effectively answered this email. As a Canadian -- we are slightly less regulated than our US counterparts, but still more regulated than I would like. Email is meant to be free. Go ahead and filter it -- don't read it, delete it -- but for Christ sake -- don't let it get in the hands of Government -- they will just fsck it up worse than it is already. You have the right to delete your email -- you have the right to toss the unsolicited spam that is delivered to your real life mail box (e.g. flyers, and other junk that comes with your newspaper). When we put email in the hands of our Governments -- we have surrendered one more freedom. Spam is easily controlled already -- use SA or train your own filters to delete it. I think that as soon as we complain too loudly for regulation? Indeed we will get regulation. Soon the NSA will read all our email and determine in advance if we really wish to receive a particular email. Steve On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 22:09, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > > To a certain degree, shouldn't ISP's be containing virus based spam > > better? > > More control has almost never meant happier results. > > > The obvious thing to do that won't violate civil rights is to check for > > non content based signs of spamming at this ISP relay hub. > > Uh, the decision that something is spam is a content-based decision. > There is no separation. > > > I say give an smtp relay at the ISP on a nonstandard port and block > > outbound traffic for ports not normally used by clients, including the > > standard smtp port. > > You mean "change the standard". > > > If someone is spammed but can always trace back to an ISP and the ISP's > > are made responsible, the spam problem can be minimized. > > At what cost? > > > If noone sends email onto the Internet from a private server, > > unsolicited email can be completely banned or restricted to safe forms > > by ISP level controls. > > So only state authorized email can transit the internet. Freakin' > brilliant. > > > This would mean licensing all ISP's and going after the ones that don't > > control their users. I think the ISP's should be licensed and be the > > only ones allowed to put email out on the Internet. > > And through this licensing procedure and narrowing of the internet's > scope, you've just given a single point of control over all internet email > to whatever power structure you've created. > > You've just taken something beautifully decentralized and open and closed > up and made it proprietary. > > And, of course, you have totally ignored the fact that licensing > authorities are not worldwide while the internet is. > > I still submit that the forced closing of mail relays has only intensified > the spam problem and narrowed the functionality of the internet with no > benefit in return. > > J. -- Steve Nelson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ron at nutriware.com Sat Feb 21 22:44:02 2004 From: ron at nutriware.com (Ron Braithwaite) Date: Sat Feb 21 22:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Message-ID: <1077432234.8743.1.camel@athena.freegeek.org> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 21:40, Steve Nelson wrote: > I think that as soon as we complain too loudly for regulation? Indeed we > will get regulation. Soon the NSA will read all our email and determine > in advance if we really wish to receive a particular email. You think the spooks aren't doing that already? -Ron -- Ron Braithwaite From steve at out-of-control.com Sat Feb 21 23:23:02 2004 From: steve at out-of-control.com (Steve Nelson) Date: Sat Feb 21 23:23:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077432234.8743.1.camel@athena.freegeek.org> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077432234.8743.1.camel@athena.freegeek.org> Message-ID: <1077434552.2886.14.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Of course they are. Need we help them? On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 23:43, Ron Braithwaite wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 21:40, Steve Nelson wrote: > > I think that as soon as we complain too loudly for regulation? Indeed we > > will get regulation. Soon the NSA will read all our email and determine > > in advance if we really wish to receive a particular email. > > You think the spooks aren't doing that already? > > -Ron -- Steve Nelson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Sun Feb 22 02:02:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Sun Feb 22 02:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Message-ID: <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 21:40, Steve Nelson wrote: > As I have mentioned before -- I normally lurk here (which doesn't mean > that I don't have opinions -- I do). > > I have to say that Jeme has effectively answered this email. As a > Canadian -- we are slightly less regulated than our US counterparts, but > still more regulated than I would like. Isn't Canada torturing Catholic priests who speak out against homosexual couples or any other Catholic teaching that isn't considered politically correct? I hear money talking, it's not the Motion Picture Association of America though it's definitely someone whose acting like they will lose if there is any censorship. > Email is meant to be free. Go ahead and filter it -- don't read it, > delete it -- but for Christ sake -- don't let it get in the hands of > Government -- they will just fsck it up worse than it is already. Excuse me, why are we taking God's name in vain as if government is Satan? What happened to render to Caesar what is Caesar's and God what is God's? I have far more faith in government. > You have the right to delete your email -- you have the right to toss > the unsolicited spam that is delivered to your real life mail box (e.g. > flyers, and other junk that comes with your newspaper). Most newspapers don't include porn and viagra ads. > When we put email in the hands of our Governments -- we have surrendered > one more freedom. Spam is easily controlled already -- use SA or train > your own filters to delete it. > > I think that as soon as we complain too loudly for regulation? Indeed we > will get regulation. Soon the NSA will read all our email and determine > in advance if we really wish to receive a particular email. > > Steve There's no freedom when it comes to junk mail, individuals and corporations have minimized the usefulness of an important modern tool. The NSA won't read everyone's email because there is too much. This is never a realistic possibility the way it's being stated and it's not something I've proposed. > > > To a certain degree, shouldn't ISP's be containing virus based spam > > > better? > > > > More control has almost never meant happier results. We're talking about viruses here, by law ISP's can be restricted from perusing any content that doesn't test positive for viruses. If you want privacy, encrypt your message, it should still pass a virus test. > > > The obvious thing to do that won't violate civil rights is to check for > > > non content based signs of spamming at this ISP relay hub. > > > > Uh, the decision that something is spam is a content-based decision. > > There is no separation. A virus is a virus is a virus. I also see nothing wrong with destroying improperly formed email where there's an attempt to forge the source or return address. Checking for viruses and forged headers does not require content analysis. Protecting absolute anarchy on a public network makes no sense at all if you value order and utility. > > > I say give an smtp relay at the ISP on a nonstandard port and block > > > outbound traffic for ports not normally used by clients, including the > > > standard smtp port. > > You mean "change the standard". Yes, why should untraceable email servers be allowed? You can still have your mail server, you'd merely have to program it to send through your ISP's relay. I don't consider everything that someone tries to send me holy where certain messages can be harmful to mine and others' state of mind. > > > If someone is spammed but can always trace back to an ISP and the ISP's > > > are made responsible, the spam problem can be minimized. > > > > At what cost? Try tracking an unregistered site. If people only accept from ISP email servers and the ISP's are not abusive, it will help. Technology can be used to minimize the spam problem as much as custom and policy can be leveraged. > > > If noone sends email onto the Internet from a private server, > > > unsolicited email can be completely banned or restricted to safe forms > > > by ISP level controls. > > So only state authorized email can transit the internet. Freakin' > > brilliant. You're forgetting that the net is a collection of homes as much as it is a collection of businesses, it should be more difficult to send certain content to some places than others in the interest of protecting people's privacy and protecting society. Now, I see no reason why there can't be an anonymous system where people download ratings from a trusted provider that help them deny connectivity altogether to and from trouble sites. Government has decency laws to protect children and society which are very appropriate and very necessary. There are predatory activities on the net that need to be curbed where it's going to take government activity to curb them. I remind you that private companies would have the say on what crosses the Net guided hopefully by their customers. The licensing would be concerned with ISP's commitment to contain and control viruses and spammers who are their own customers. There are unintrusive ways to determine that a customer is sending out spam or viruses. A lot of this trash gets into the wild and reeks havoc where that has to be weighed against free speech rhetoric. Is destructive speech protected under free speech? > > > This would mean licensing all ISP's and going after the ones that don't > > > control their users. I think the ISP's should be licensed and be the > > > only ones allowed to put email out on the Internet. > > > > And through this licensing procedure and narrowing of the internet's > > scope, you've just given a single point of control over all internet email > > to whatever power structure you've created. It can be as simple as saying that all ISP's have to force their users through proxies offering them ratings from whatever rating body they choose. > > You've just taken something beautifully decentralized and open and closed > > up and made it proprietary. The Internet is heavily abused to the point of destroying hundreds of thousands of marriages and worse. It's the Internet that is free while too many of it's users suffer from cyber addictions and being stalked by predators or advertisers. Media practices that work on more passive media aren't appropriate for the Internet. Try an estimated 200k sick American men. Now look at 17 year olds online. Content is an issue. > > And, of course, you have totally ignored the fact that licensing > > authorities are not worldwide while the internet is. Why treat sources outside your own country equally? I have a lot of problems with what is coming out of Canada, a nation that has been performing gay marriages before it even became an issue here for just one example. I'm not impressed with the whole entertainment line up that comes out of Canada either, much of this makes local broadcast television almost as bad as what's on the net. Does it need to be legal for a particular type of content to flow freely across the net if the availability of that content brings more harm than good to society? Media providers have been asked to regulate themselves. Have they? Do today's movies and television demonstrate restraint and good taste? Is it right in the name of free speech for the Internet to support the worst prostitution operations the world has ever seen? Worshiping speech over the welfare of one's fellow man is not being his keeper. Free speech twisted to protect what harms society reeks of something awful. Was it Ted Bundy who commented that Internet erotica made him kill all those women? Maybe global networks the size of the Internet will be the world's undoing. Maybe they are a mistake of mammoth proportions. Is there a functional world body capable of regulating the Internet, the U.N. along with other similar bodies doesn't even work. > > I still submit that the forced closing of mail relays has only intensified > > the spam problem and narrowed the functionality of the internet with no > > benefit in return. If you have to receive spam to know it's spam, you've already lost. If a relay spams someone, I'm all for it being closed. Viruses that create junk mail need to be stopped. As far as Canada goes, Canadians need to stop sending all manner of trash around the world. In fairness though, I have to say the same for any other country that does too. It is reasonable to ban adult entertainment from the Internet or regulate it more to protect society as a whole. Something similar could be done about drug ads and ads in general that are unsolicited. For drugs, controlling these ads may lower their cost shifting more money to drug developement. From steve at out-of-control.com Sun Feb 22 02:25:03 2004 From: steve at out-of-control.com (Steve Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 22 02:25:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1077445433.2881.26.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Yes............. you make valid arguments. You should take one last hit on the crack pipe and read what you wrote. Typical American response............. read it again......... are you sober when you write such drivel and believe it?? Steve On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 02:54, Darkhorse wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 21:40, Steve Nelson wrote: > > As I have mentioned before -- I normally lurk here (which doesn't mean > > that I don't have opinions -- I do). > > > > I have to say that Jeme has effectively answered this email. As a > > Canadian -- we are slightly less regulated than our US counterparts, but > > still more regulated than I would like. > > Isn't Canada torturing Catholic priests who speak out against homosexual > couples or any other Catholic teaching that isn't considered politically > correct? I hear money talking, it's not the Motion Picture Association > of America though it's definitely someone whose acting like they will > lose if there is any censorship. > > > Email is meant to be free. Go ahead and filter it -- don't read it, > > delete it -- but for Christ sake -- don't let it get in the hands of > > Government -- they will just fsck it up worse than it is already. > Excuse me, why are we taking God's name in vain as if government is > Satan? What happened to render to Caesar what is Caesar's and God > what is God's? I have far more faith in government. > > > You have the right to delete your email -- you have the right to toss > > the unsolicited spam that is delivered to your real life mail box (e.g. > > flyers, and other junk that comes with your newspaper). > > Most newspapers don't include porn and viagra ads. > > > When we put email in the hands of our Governments -- we have surrendered > > one more freedom. Spam is easily controlled already -- use SA or train > > your own filters to delete it. > > > > I think that as soon as we complain too loudly for regulation? Indeed we > > will get regulation. Soon the NSA will read all our email and determine > > in advance if we really wish to receive a particular email. > > > > Steve > > There's no freedom when it comes to junk mail, individuals and > corporations have minimized the usefulness of an important modern tool. > The NSA won't read everyone's email because there is too much. This is > never a realistic possibility the way it's being stated and it's not > something I've proposed. > > > > > To a certain degree, shouldn't ISP's be containing virus based spam > > > > better? > > > > > > More control has almost never meant happier results. > > We're talking about viruses here, by law ISP's can be restricted from > perusing any content that doesn't test positive for viruses. If you > want privacy, encrypt your message, it should still pass a virus test. > > > > > The obvious thing to do that won't violate civil rights is to check for > > > > non content based signs of spamming at this ISP relay hub. > > > > > > Uh, the decision that something is spam is a content-based decision. > > > There is no separation. > > A virus is a virus is a virus. I also see nothing wrong with destroying > improperly formed email where there's an attempt to forge the source or > return address. Checking for viruses and forged headers does not > require content analysis. Protecting absolute anarchy on a public > network makes no sense at all if you value order and utility. > > > > > I say give an smtp relay at the ISP on a nonstandard port and block > > > > outbound traffic for ports not normally used by clients, including the > > > > standard smtp port. > > > > You mean "change the standard". > Yes, why should untraceable email servers be allowed? You can still > have your mail server, you'd merely have to program it to send through > your ISP's relay. I don't consider everything that someone tries > to send me holy where certain messages can be harmful to mine and > others' state of mind. > > > > > If someone is spammed but can always trace back to an ISP and the ISP's > > > > are made responsible, the spam problem can be minimized. > > > > > > At what cost? > > Try tracking an unregistered site. If people only accept from ISP email > servers and the ISP's are not abusive, it will help. Technology can be > used to minimize the spam problem as much as custom and policy can be > leveraged. > > > > > If noone sends email onto the Internet from a private server, > > > > unsolicited email can be completely banned or restricted to safe forms > > > > by ISP level controls. > > > > So only state authorized email can transit the internet. Freakin' > > > brilliant. > > You're forgetting that the net is a collection of homes as much as it is > a collection of businesses, it should be more difficult to send certain > content to some places than others in the interest of protecting > people's privacy and protecting society. Now, I see no reason why there > can't be an anonymous system where people download ratings from a > trusted provider that help them deny connectivity altogether to and from > trouble sites. Government has decency laws to protect children and > society which are very appropriate and very necessary. There are > predatory activities on the net that need to be curbed where it's > going to take government activity to curb them. I remind you that > private companies would have the say on what crosses the Net guided > hopefully by their customers. The licensing would be concerned > with ISP's commitment to contain and control viruses and spammers > who are their own customers. There are unintrusive ways to determine > that a customer is sending out spam or viruses. A lot of this trash > gets into the wild and reeks havoc where that has to be weighed against > free speech rhetoric. Is destructive speech protected under free > speech? > > > > > This would mean licensing all ISP's and going after the ones that don't > > > > control their users. I think the ISP's should be licensed and be the > > > > only ones allowed to put email out on the Internet. > > > > > > And through this licensing procedure and narrowing of the internet's > > > scope, you've just given a single point of control over all internet email > > > to whatever power structure you've created. > > It can be as simple as saying that all ISP's have to force their users > through proxies offering them ratings from whatever rating body they > choose. > > > > You've just taken something beautifully decentralized and open and closed > > > up and made it proprietary. > > The Internet is heavily abused to the point of destroying hundreds of > thousands of marriages and worse. It's the Internet that is free while > too many of it's users suffer from cyber addictions and being stalked by > predators or advertisers. Media practices that work on more passive > media aren't appropriate for the Internet. Try an estimated 200k sick > American men. Now look at 17 year olds online. Content is an issue. > > > > And, of course, you have totally ignored the fact that licensing > > > authorities are not worldwide while the internet is. > > Why treat sources outside your own country equally? I have a lot of > problems with what is coming out of Canada, a nation that has been > performing gay marriages before it even became an issue here for just > one example. I'm not impressed with the whole entertainment line up > that comes out of Canada either, much of this makes local broadcast > television almost as bad as what's on the net. Does it need to > be legal for a particular type of content to flow freely across > the net if the availability of that content brings more harm than > good to society? Media providers have been asked to regulate > themselves. Have they? Do today's movies and television demonstrate > restraint and good taste? Is it right in the name of free speech for > the Internet to support the worst prostitution operations the world has > ever seen? Worshiping speech over the welfare of one's fellow man is > not being his keeper. Free speech twisted to protect what harms society > reeks of something awful. Was it Ted Bundy who commented that Internet > erotica made him kill all those women? > > Maybe global networks the size of the Internet will be the world's > undoing. Maybe they are a mistake of mammoth proportions. Is there > a functional world body capable of regulating the Internet, the U.N. > along with other similar bodies doesn't even work. > > > > I still submit that the forced closing of mail relays has only intensified > > > the spam problem and narrowed the functionality of the internet with no > > > benefit in return. > > If you have to receive spam to know it's spam, you've already lost. If > a relay spams someone, I'm all for it being closed. Viruses that > create junk mail need to be stopped. > > As far as Canada goes, Canadians need to stop sending all manner of > trash around the world. In fairness though, I have to say the same > for any other country that does too. > > It is reasonable to ban adult entertainment from the Internet or > regulate it more to protect society as a whole. Something similar > could be done about drug ads and ads in general that are unsolicited. > For drugs, controlling these ads may lower their cost shifting more > money to drug developement. > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Steve Nelson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steve at out-of-control.com Sun Feb 22 02:39:01 2004 From: steve at out-of-control.com (Steve Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 22 02:39:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1077446271.2882.35.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> While I find you mildly amusing in your Canuck bashing? You are the atypical Merican. The holier than thou (at the same time espousing free speech). I am Canadian.............. I am proud of it. Go fuck yourself!! I will not enter into a debate with you. You have already shown that you have a closed mind -- why don't you go find more wmd in Iraq? You americans are idiots in the minds of us Canucks. Americans = From those nice ppl that brought you Microsoft On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 02:54, Darkhorse wrote: > On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 21:40, Steve Nelson wrote: > > As I have mentioned before -- I normally lurk here (which doesn't mean > > that I don't have opinions -- I do). > > > > I have to say that Jeme has effectively answered this email. As a > > Canadian -- we are slightly less regulated than our US counterparts, but > > still more regulated than I would like. > > Isn't Canada torturing Catholic priests who speak out against homosexual > couples or any other Catholic teaching that isn't considered politically > correct? I hear money talking, it's not the Motion Picture Association > of America though it's definitely someone whose acting like they will > lose if there is any censorship. > > > Email is meant to be free. Go ahead and filter it -- don't read it, > > delete it -- but for Christ sake -- don't let it get in the hands of > > Government -- they will just fsck it up worse than it is already. > Excuse me, why are we taking God's name in vain as if government is > Satan? What happened to render to Caesar what is Caesar's and God > what is God's? I have far more faith in government. > > > You have the right to delete your email -- you have the right to toss > > the unsolicited spam that is delivered to your real life mail box (e.g. > > flyers, and other junk that comes with your newspaper). > > Most newspapers don't include porn and viagra ads. > > > When we put email in the hands of our Governments -- we have surrendered > > one more freedom. Spam is easily controlled already -- use SA or train > > your own filters to delete it. > > > > I think that as soon as we complain too loudly for regulation? Indeed we > > will get regulation. Soon the NSA will read all our email and determine > > in advance if we really wish to receive a particular email. > > > > Steve > > There's no freedom when it comes to junk mail, individuals and > corporations have minimized the usefulness of an important modern tool. > The NSA won't read everyone's email because there is too much. This is > never a realistic possibility the way it's being stated and it's not > something I've proposed. > > > > > To a certain degree, shouldn't ISP's be containing virus based spam > > > > better? > > > > > > More control has almost never meant happier results. > > We're talking about viruses here, by law ISP's can be restricted from > perusing any content that doesn't test positive for viruses. If you > want privacy, encrypt your message, it should still pass a virus test. > > > > > The obvious thing to do that won't violate civil rights is to check for > > > > non content based signs of spamming at this ISP relay hub. > > > > > > Uh, the decision that something is spam is a content-based decision. > > > There is no separation. > > A virus is a virus is a virus. I also see nothing wrong with destroying > improperly formed email where there's an attempt to forge the source or > return address. Checking for viruses and forged headers does not > require content analysis. Protecting absolute anarchy on a public > network makes no sense at all if you value order and utility. > > > > > I say give an smtp relay at the ISP on a nonstandard port and block > > > > outbound traffic for ports not normally used by clients, including the > > > > standard smtp port. > > > > You mean "change the standard". > Yes, why should untraceable email servers be allowed? You can still > have your mail server, you'd merely have to program it to send through > your ISP's relay. I don't consider everything that someone tries > to send me holy where certain messages can be harmful to mine and > others' state of mind. > > > > > If someone is spammed but can always trace back to an ISP and the ISP's > > > > are made responsible, the spam problem can be minimized. > > > > > > At what cost? > > Try tracking an unregistered site. If people only accept from ISP email > servers and the ISP's are not abusive, it will help. Technology can be > used to minimize the spam problem as much as custom and policy can be > leveraged. > > > > > If noone sends email onto the Internet from a private server, > > > > unsolicited email can be completely banned or restricted to safe forms > > > > by ISP level controls. > > > > So only state authorized email can transit the internet. Freakin' > > > brilliant. > > You're forgetting that the net is a collection of homes as much as it is > a collection of businesses, it should be more difficult to send certain > content to some places than others in the interest of protecting > people's privacy and protecting society. Now, I see no reason why there > can't be an anonymous system where people download ratings from a > trusted provider that help them deny connectivity altogether to and from > trouble sites. Government has decency laws to protect children and > society which are very appropriate and very necessary. There are > predatory activities on the net that need to be curbed where it's > going to take government activity to curb them. I remind you that > private companies would have the say on what crosses the Net guided > hopefully by their customers. The licensing would be concerned > with ISP's commitment to contain and control viruses and spammers > who are their own customers. There are unintrusive ways to determine > that a customer is sending out spam or viruses. A lot of this trash > gets into the wild and reeks havoc where that has to be weighed against > free speech rhetoric. Is destructive speech protected under free > speech? > > > > > This would mean licensing all ISP's and going after the ones that don't > > > > control their users. I think the ISP's should be licensed and be the > > > > only ones allowed to put email out on the Internet. > > > > > > And through this licensing procedure and narrowing of the internet's > > > scope, you've just given a single point of control over all internet email > > > to whatever power structure you've created. > > It can be as simple as saying that all ISP's have to force their users > through proxies offering them ratings from whatever rating body they > choose. > > > > You've just taken something beautifully decentralized and open and closed > > > up and made it proprietary. > > The Internet is heavily abused to the point of destroying hundreds of > thousands of marriages and worse. It's the Internet that is free while > too many of it's users suffer from cyber addictions and being stalked by > predators or advertisers. Media practices that work on more passive > media aren't appropriate for the Internet. Try an estimated 200k sick > American men. Now look at 17 year olds online. Content is an issue. > > > > And, of course, you have totally ignored the fact that licensing > > > authorities are not worldwide while the internet is. > > Why treat sources outside your own country equally? I have a lot of > problems with what is coming out of Canada, a nation that has been > performing gay marriages before it even became an issue here for just > one example. I'm not impressed with the whole entertainment line up > that comes out of Canada either, much of this makes local broadcast > television almost as bad as what's on the net. Does it need to > be legal for a particular type of content to flow freely across > the net if the availability of that content brings more harm than > good to society? Media providers have been asked to regulate > themselves. Have they? Do today's movies and television demonstrate > restraint and good taste? Is it right in the name of free speech for > the Internet to support the worst prostitution operations the world has > ever seen? Worshiping speech over the welfare of one's fellow man is > not being his keeper. Free speech twisted to protect what harms society > reeks of something awful. Was it Ted Bundy who commented that Internet > erotica made him kill all those women? > > Maybe global networks the size of the Internet will be the world's > undoing. Maybe they are a mistake of mammoth proportions. Is there > a functional world body capable of regulating the Internet, the U.N. > along with other similar bodies doesn't even work. > > > > I still submit that the forced closing of mail relays has only intensified > > > the spam problem and narrowed the functionality of the internet with no > > > benefit in return. > > If you have to receive spam to know it's spam, you've already lost. If > a relay spams someone, I'm all for it being closed. Viruses that > create junk mail need to be stopped. > > As far as Canada goes, Canadians need to stop sending all manner of > trash around the world. In fairness though, I have to say the same > for any other country that does too. > > It is reasonable to ban adult entertainment from the Internet or > regulate it more to protect society as a whole. Something similar > could be done about drug ads and ads in general that are unsolicited. > For drugs, controlling these ads may lower their cost shifting more > money to drug developement. > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Steve Nelson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From steve at out-of-control.com Sun Feb 22 02:54:02 2004 From: steve at out-of-control.com (Steve Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 22 02:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Apology to the list... In-Reply-To: <1077446271.2882.35.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077446271.2882.35.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Message-ID: <1077447171.2879.42.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> I have to apologize to the list for my last post. While I don't back down from any of my assertations, I do apologize for my language; especially as it relates to Canuck = American relations. I meant to post in private.... I posted public. I do stand by the assertations that I made, if you wish to debate with me? I would enjoy that! Again I apologize for the confusion.............. Steve -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From seniorr at aracnet.com Sun Feb 22 03:42:01 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Sun Feb 22 03:42:01 2004 Subject: plug-talk recommended (was Re: [PLUG] Apology to the list...) In-Reply-To: <1077447171.2879.42.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077446271.2882.35.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077447171.2879.42.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Message-ID: <867jyfjq7x.fsf_-_@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Nelson writes: Steve> I have to apologize to the list for my last post. If you'd posted the plug-talk, there would be no need to apologize ;-). -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From steve at out-of-control.com Sun Feb 22 05:03:01 2004 From: steve at out-of-control.com (Steve Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 22 05:03:01 2004 Subject: plug-talk recommended (was Re: [PLUG] Apology to the list...) In-Reply-To: <867jyfjq7x.fsf_-_@coulee.tdb.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077446271.2882.35.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077447171.2879.42.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <867jyfjq7x.fsf_-_@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <1077454926.2803.45.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Yeah -- but if my Aunt had testicles? She'd be my uncle. Steve Once again -- if anyone cares to take it private? You know my email by now! On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 04:41, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Nelson writes: > > Steve> I have to apologize to the list for my last post. > > If you'd posted the plug-talk, there would be no need to apologize ;-). -- Steve Nelson -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fixin at peak.org Sun Feb 22 06:35:04 2004 From: fixin at peak.org (Eric House) Date: Sun Feb 22 06:35:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? Message-ID: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> I got hooked up with Qwest DSL on Friday (in Corvallis), and am having a miserable time with the modem. If anybody else has had better luck I'd love to hear about it, if only to ease my suspicion that I'm wasting my time. Getting outbound connections going was easy enough. That is, it seems to work for the kind of surfs-and-checks-email user they have in mind. But I want to run a real firewall (LEAF), forward ssh to an admin machine for when I'm traveling, host a web server, etc. I've done this before with cable, but now the Actiontec box seems to be getting in the way (primarily by providing an unconfigurable firewall, and by requiring frequent powercycling as soon as I change any of the default settings.) I have a dynamic IP address, if that matters. Qwest "tech support" suggested that a static address would be better, but couldn't explain why it'd matter. Anyway, I'm not looking for setup help (yet :-). I just want to know if I'm wasting my time. My daughter has a ton of homework to do so it'll be a few days before I can try any further tweaking. Also, does anybody know if there are less ambitious modems available that'll work with Qwest, or if switching to another DSL provider (available in Corvallis, which Speakeasy isn't) would help? Thanks, --Eric -- ****************************************************************************** * From the desktop of: Eric House, fixin at peak.org * * Crosswords 4.0 for PalmOS is out!: * ****************************************************************************** From david.fleck at mchsi.com Sun Feb 22 07:01:02 2004 From: david.fleck at mchsi.com (David Fleck) Date: Sun Feb 22 07:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20040222085920.U58331@grond.sourballs.org> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > Isn't Canada torturing Catholic priests who speak out against homosexual > couples or any other Catholic teaching that isn't considered politically > correct? w.t.f.?? I think it's time you took one of those self-imposed holidays again. -- David Fleck david.fleck at mchsi.com From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 22 07:37:01 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 22 07:37:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> Message-ID: <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 06:34, Eric House wrote: > I got hooked up with Qwest DSL on Friday (in Corvallis), and am having > a miserable time with the modem. If anybody else has had better luck > I'd love to hear about it, if only to ease my suspicion that I'm > wasting my time. > > Getting outbound connections going was easy enough. That is, it seems > to work for the kind of surfs-and-checks-email user they have in mind. > But I want to run a real firewall (LEAF), forward ssh to an admin > machine for when I'm traveling, host a web server, etc. I've done > this before with cable, but now the Actiontec box seems to be getting > in the way (primarily by providing an unconfigurable firewall, and by > requiring frequent powercycling as soon as I change any of the default > settings.) > > I have a dynamic IP address, if that matters. Qwest "tech support" > suggested that a static address would be better, but couldn't explain > why it'd matter. > > Anyway, I'm not looking for setup help (yet :-). I just want to know > if I'm wasting my time. My daughter has a ton of homework to do so > it'll be a few days before I can try any further tweaking. > > Also, does anybody know if there are less ambitious modems available > that'll work with Qwest, or if switching to another DSL provider > (available in Corvallis, which Speakeasy isn't) would help? > > Thanks, > > --Eric I have a Cisco 678 that works fine in Portland. When I talked to them (Qwest) about moving my DSL to my other line they said I'd have to switch to Action Tech. Others on the list said there was no reason to switch, that Cisco 678 also does DMT, whatever that is. -- Bill Spears From griffint at pobox.com Sun Feb 22 07:58:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Sun Feb 22 07:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <20040222085920.U58331@grond.sourballs.org> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077443668.22027.114.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <20040222085920.U58331@grond.sourballs.org> Message-ID: <200402220757.41640.griffint@pobox.com> On Sunday 22 February 2004 7:00 am, David Fleck wrote: > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Darkhorse wrote: > > Isn't Canada torturing Catholic priests who speak out against homosexual > > couples or any other Catholic teaching that isn't considered politically > > correct? > > w.t.f.?? I think it's time you took one of those self-imposed holidays > again. > > You know, there's nothing more demoralizing to me than to have a thread that I started, on a perfectly legit on-topic issue, degrade in to this nonsense. It seems to be a repeating pattern on this list. It sure would be nice if folks could post questions here without fear of their thread going to hell. Terry From AthlonRob at axpr.net Sun Feb 22 08:23:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 22 08:23:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> Message-ID: <1077466894.6222.126.camel@dell.linux.box> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 21:40, Steve Nelson wrote: > I have to say that Jeme has effectively answered this email. As a > Canadian -- we are slightly less regulated than our US counterparts, but > still more regulated than I would like. Canada is less regulated than the US? That is odd. I had always gotten the impression Canada was far more socialistic than the United States... far more willing to jump in and regulate things. Take medicine for example. > Email is meant to be free. Go ahead and filter it -- don't read it, > delete it -- but for Christ sake -- don't let it get in the hands of > Government -- they will just fsck it up worse than it is already. I agree. Such efforts to regulate email at the national or local level are just plain insane and show a lack of understanding of the Internet. > When we put email in the hands of our Governments -- we have surrendered > one more freedom. Spam is easily controlled already -- use SA or train > your own filters to delete it. To bring a little bit of topicality back to this thread... SpamAssassin does do a pretty good job. I've been stress testing it with a spam-ridden old email account lately and have had less than two spams a day make it through. These are well-crafted spams that already made it through one level of spam filtering. On the mail client side... I've been giving people Thunderbird lately, teaching them how to use its spam controls, and letting them run free. Most have reported positive results. :-) Rob From wcooley at nakedape.cc Sun Feb 22 10:29:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Sun Feb 22 10:29:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionary attacks In-Reply-To: <1077466894.6222.126.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <200402181854.27053.griffint@pobox.com> <1077417333.19527.44.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1077428429.2880.9.camel@chinook.out-of-control.com> <1077466894.6222.126.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1077474516.31261.0.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Take it to plug-talk or private. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * AIX Support & Service http://nakedape.cc/r/aix * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wcooley at nakedape.cc Sun Feb 22 10:33:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Sun Feb 22 10:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> Message-ID: <1077474735.31261.3.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 06:34, Eric House wrote: > Getting outbound connections going was easy enough. That is, it seems > to work for the kind of surfs-and-checks-email user they have in mind. > But I want to run a real firewall (LEAF), forward ssh to an admin > machine for when I'm traveling, host a web server, etc. I've done > this before with cable, but now the Actiontec box seems to be getting > in the way (primarily by providing an unconfigurable firewall, and by > requiring frequent powercycling as soon as I change any of the default > settings.) Have you tried the web interface? We've done this kind of thing before and it works okay. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Secure E-mail Server * * Naked Ape Mail Defender http://nakedape.cc/r/md * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ed at alcpress.com Sun Feb 22 11:02:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (Ed Sawicki) Date: Sun Feb 22 11:02:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionaries for ispell/aspell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077476499.7901.14.camel@nat.alcpress.com> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 16:18, Rich Shepard wrote: > Anyone know the file name(s) for the dictionaries used by ispell and > aspell? Also is there a tool for editing those dictionaries to remove > accidently mis-spelled words? Your aspell local files should be in a .aspell directory in your home directory. > I didn't see answers to either of these in the man page. > > Thanks, > > Rich From chris at maybe.net Sun Feb 22 11:08:01 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Sun Feb 22 11:08:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 07:36:59AM -0800, Bill Spears wrote: > switch to Action Tech. Others on the list said there was no reason to > switch, that Cisco 678 also does DMT, whatever that is. In there early days of DSL deployment, there were several different kinds of DSL. IDSL, SDSL, VDSL, etc. Of ADSL, the original modulation standard was CAP. Don't remember what it stands for. Anyhoo, it used all the ADSL frequency band at once and was a more or less "all or nothing" affair as far as carrier negotation and maintenance. DMT came next and as far as I know, is still "it", due to it being rather good and due to existing infrastructure costs. It stands for Discrete Multi-tone. (I may be slightly wrong on that acronym, too.) The idea now is that the frequency band is subdivided into lots of little discrete sub-bands. Then when the modem negotiates with the DSLAM, it will figure out which frequencies the line is incapable of carrying (due to noise and physical limits) and ignore those. It is therefore more robust. A "long" time ago I was trained for tech support on this stuff, but it's all fuzzy and I didn't do it for very long. I believe DMT is also the only one capable of autoscaling it's speed, but I wouldn't stand behind that. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From chris at maybe.net Sun Feb 22 11:13:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Sun Feb 22 11:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> Message-ID: <20040222191226.GH18219@maybe.net> On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:07:52AM -0800, Chris Jantzen wrote: > In there early days Whoops. Missed that one on proofreading. Makes me sound like a hick. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 11:15:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 11:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dictionaries for ispell/aspell In-Reply-To: <1077476499.7901.14.camel@nat.alcpress.com> References: <1077476499.7901.14.camel@nat.alcpress.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Ed Sawicki wrote: > Your aspell local files should be in a .aspell directory in > your home directory. Ah! Thanks, Ed. It's .aspell.english.pws and I did have a couple of misspelled words in there. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From gepr at tempusdictum.com Sun Feb 22 12:34:01 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Sun Feb 22 12:34:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux on the Sony TR3A Message-ID: <16441.4609.619911.159402@eris.dischordia.net> Anyone have any hints about installing linux on a Sony Vaio TR3A? I would have brought it to the install-fest; but, I was out buying it at the time! -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 12:52:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 12:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux on the Sony TR3A In-Reply-To: <16441.4609.619911.159402@eris.dischordia.net> References: <16441.4609.619911.159402@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > Anyone have any hints about installing linux on a Sony Vaio TR3A? I would > have brought it to the install-fest; but, I was out buying it at the time! Glen, Did you look at the linux on laptops Web site? There's a 1A there. Perhaps that will help. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 13:08:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:08:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] IEEE members here? Message-ID: Is anyone here a member of IEEE? There are some research papers they've published which are only downloadable by members. If you're willing to obtain them for me, I would certainly appreciate the assistance. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From gepr at tempusdictum.com Sun Feb 22 13:14:01 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:14:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux on the Sony TR3A In-Reply-To: References: <16441.4609.619911.159402@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: <16441.7013.18670.855120@eris.dischordia.net> Rich Shepard writes: > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 gepr at tempusdictum.com wrote: > > > Anyone have any hints about installing linux on a Sony Vaio TR3A? I would > > have brought it to the install-fest; but, I was out buying it at the time! > > Did you look at the linux on laptops Web site? > > > There's a 1A there. Perhaps that will help. Might give some hints. It looks like alot of the hardware numbers are higher, though. Thanks!! I'm going to give the Debian netinst 2/21 build a shot... -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 22 14:05:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 22 14:05:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <20040222191226.GH18219@maybe.net> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <20040222191226.GH18219@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 11:07:52AM -0800, Chris Jantzen wrote: > > In there early days > > Whoops. Missed that one on proofreading. Makes me sound like a hick. Oh, it's not the spelling that makes you sound like a hick, Chris... don't worry. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 16:25:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 16:25:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] OT: Hardware problem solved Message-ID: Well, my new system is back to booting and running just fine with its new hard drive. Mike de la Mater stopped by, found a bent pin on the cd-rom drive data socket (reason for that going flaky), pulled drive data cables and reseated them and ended up putting the jumpers on the two drives just the way I had them: 60G drive master, 80G drive slave. While Mike glared at the unit, I powered it on and all drives were instantly detected by the BIOS. After booting, 'cfdisk', 'mkreiserfs' and the creation of three new mount points and modifications to /etc/fstab, the new drive is purring along and ready for work. Just one of those computer moments, I guess. Or, more likely, Mike's glaring was more effective than was mine. Anyway, a public "thank you" to Mike for volunteering to stop by on his way to another appointment. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 18:25:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 18:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it Message-ID: Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer this question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages and leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? I send my responses back with each comment following the appropriate chunk of quoted text. But, they never seem to get a clue. Is this because that's the only way -- or the default -- for Lookout! and Lookout Faster and no one tries to do anything different? Signed: curious in Troutdale Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 22 18:38:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 22 18:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer > this question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages > and leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? > > I send my responses back with each comment following the appropriate > chunk of quoted text. But, they never seem to get a clue. Is this > because that's the only way -- or the default -- for Lookout! and > Lookout Faster and no one tries to do anything different? That's pretty much it. Also, the Microsoft MUAs default to HTML mail with only a different color font tag (and some meaningless indentation) to indicate quoted material. It's kind of difficult to insert your comments into quoted text without it showing up inside the font tag. The editors just don't know the difference between mail and anything else. >From the editor's perspective, a forward and a reply are the same thing and that just adds to the confusion. The system they've supported is more like IM than email. It doesn't matter how much context is carried forward in little volleys like "Lunch today?" "OK, how about 12:30?" "Sounds good. I'll ask Dave." Worthless for substantial correspondence. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 22 18:40:03 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 22 18:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer this > question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages and > leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? > > I send my responses back with each comment following the appropriate chunk > of quoted text. But, they never seem to get a clue. Is this because that's > the only way -- or the default -- for Lookout! and Lookout Faster and no one > tries to do anything different? Oh, and also they don't provide a nice, single-line quote reference as above. You get a sort of summation of headers rather than a quote reference. That's dumb, too. Again, it looks more like a forward than a reply. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From dan_young at parkrose.k12.or.us Sun Feb 22 18:44:02 2004 From: dan_young at parkrose.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Sun Feb 22 18:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64900.24.20.16.226.1077504375.squirrel@webmail.parkrose.k12.or.us> Rich Shepard said: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer > this question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages > and leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? That's the default, AFAIK. Plus, your average Windows user tends to be less informed on netiquitte issues. -Dan Young -Parkrose School District From ian at znark.com Sun Feb 22 18:55:02 2004 From: ian at znark.com (Ian Burrell) Date: Sun Feb 22 18:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40396B62.1050306@znark.com> Rich Shepard wrote: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer this > question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages and > leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? > > I send my responses back with each comment following the appropriate chunk > of quoted text. But, they never seem to get a clue. Is this because that's > the only way -- or the default -- for Lookout! and Lookout Faster and no one > tries to do anything different? > For one thing, it is the default for Microsoft Outlook to start entering text at the top of the message. It also ignores any issues with maintaining attributions, forwarded headers, and stripping signatures. Not to mention the fun that happens with HTML messages and forwarded messages. I also think it is a difference in culture. Business culture leans toward maintaing the whole conversation. This is for the benefit of anyone who joins later or needs their butt covered. The technical culture is to bottom-post and trim quotes. What would be nice is some mechanism to maintain references to earlier messages and reserve quoting for addressing a point. - Ian -- ian at znark.com http://www.znark.com/ From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 22 19:13:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 22 19:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040223031251.GA9796@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 06:23:41PM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer this > question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages and > leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? They completely forget about the English language and ideas of continuity. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAOW+zUzgNqloQMwcRAs09AKDch+UY5/Uw+cvtVRn74QVL+t5nZQCgzHtE yttstcNl0/QVGOGJ7mrRPCs= =96ok -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From heinlein at madboa.com Sun Feb 22 19:33:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Sun Feb 22 19:33:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <40396B62.1050306@znark.com> References: <40396B62.1050306@znark.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Ian Burrell wrote[1]: > I also think it is a difference in culture. Business culture leans > toward maintaing the whole conversation. This is for the benefit of > anyone who joins later or needs their butt covered. I typically dislike e-mail messages that quote the entire thread -- running six or seven levels of quoting -- but there are a rare few occasions when it's nice. I find that's especially true when the issue at hand has more to do with policy than technology. In a policy discussion, it's somewhat easier to snip an apparently useless paragraph that is later deemed significant. > The technical culture is to bottom-post and trim quotes. What would > be nice is some mechanism to maintain references to earlier messages > and reserve quoting for addressing a point. That'd be very cool: mailing list software that automatically makes available the URL to the archived copy of threads quoted in the reply message (like I did in the opening footnote of this message :-). -- Paul Heinlein [1] http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug/2004-February/029727.html From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 19:44:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 19:44:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > That's pretty much it. Thank you, Jeme. I've never seen that stuff in its habitat so I had no idea what it was like. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 19:50:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 19:50:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <64900.24.20.16.226.1077504375.squirrel@webmail.parkrose.k12.or.us> References: <64900.24.20.16.226.1077504375.squirrel@webmail.parkrose.k12.or.us> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Dan Young wrote: > That's the default, AFAIK. Plus, your average Windows user tends to be > less informed on netiquitte issues. Thanks, Dan. The latter is certainly true! Plus, I suspect that the vast majority of winduhs users never think to look beyond the defaults. More than a dozen years ago, when I was hired by a local consulting company, I was the only one who knew _anything_ about computers. We used WordPerfect-5.1/DOS for all processed words. One day one of the principals walked by and asked why my screen was black with grey letters when everyone else's was blue with bright, white letters. I told him that I had changed the colors. Next thing I knew, I had to show everyone how to change screen colors and do all the other neat things that could be changed. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 19:56:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 19:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <40396B62.1050306@znark.com> References: <40396B62.1050306@znark.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Ian Burrell wrote: > What would be nice is some mechanism to maintain references to earlier > messages and reserve quoting for addressing a point. Ian, There is such a mechanism; I've used it for more than a decade. I have a mail file for every client and every project. I can trace a dialog thread from start to finish. It was just such a record that allowed me to convince a client to pay what they owed. Of course, it was the day before my attorney filed suit in Multnomah County District Court, but pay they did. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From iconoklastic at yahoo.com Sun Feb 22 20:14:02 2004 From: iconoklastic at yahoo.com (Robert Kopp) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Promise drive controller Message-ID: <20040223041343.52810.qmail@web9610.mail.yahoo.com> This is my last message on the subject. Honest! I obtained a 160-GB hard drive and needed the Promise Ultra100 TX2 to support the large capacity. My problems with it using Linux were documented earlier, but I had some trouble with Windows, too. Most recently I ordered a 120-GB drive which is on the way (<137 GB). When it arrives, apparently Tuesday, I shall remove the add-on controller and connect the new drive to the blue 40-pin socket on the motherboard, using a round IDE cable that glows in the dark, and I think my problems will disappear. Does Jeme Brelin want a cheap drive controller? I mean, really cheap. Since my last post to the list, MS Virtual PC 2004 has appeared, and at $129 it is much cheaper than VMWare. (The host OS must be XP Pro.) It is easy enough to dual-boot XP with Linux, however, and much cheaper. ===== Robert "Tim" Kopp http://analytic.tripod.com/ From m at phxlinux.org Sun Feb 22 20:30:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer this > question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages and > leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? Personally, I do both. It depends on the conversation. If there's something specific in a long message that I'm responding to, then I'll quote just that section and bottom post. That way when someone reads my message they have a reference to what I'm talking about. However, if the body of the message is something simple that all parties are well aware of then there's no reason to bottom post, and in these instances it's annoying to have to scroll through all the forwarding gibberish to find the next person's comment. ~M From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 22 20:34:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Promise drive controller In-Reply-To: <20040223041343.52810.qmail@web9610.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040223041343.52810.qmail@web9610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Robert Kopp wrote: > ... using a round IDE cable that glows in the dark, and I think my > problems will disappear. Well, at least they'd be visible then. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From sandy at herring.org Sun Feb 22 20:39:02 2004 From: sandy at herring.org (Sandy Herring) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040223043859.GA19661@kippered.herring.org> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Personally, I do both. It depends on the conversation. [...] And to take that a logical step further, it also depends on the precedent. As much as I prefer to bottom post, if I'm replying to a thread that is already top-posted, I'll follow suit regardless of my personal preference. Much the same applies to maintenance programming - if I'm debugging somebody else's code, I'll try to adher to whatever style is already in effect when adding my own code. It's a matter of readability. Sandy -- Sandy Herring, RHCE o sandy at herring.org Peck of Pickled Pisces __ o http://herring.org/ UNIX or Web authoring questions? |\/ o\ o http://herring.org/finger.html ->http://herring.org/techie.html |/\__/ http://herring.org/pub-key.asc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From baloo at ursine.ca Sun Feb 22 20:54:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 22 20:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040223045349.GA12697@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 09:28:49PM -0700, Matt Alexander wrote: > However, if the body of the message is something simple that all parties > are well aware of then there's no reason to bottom post, and in these > instances it's annoying to have to scroll through all the forwarding > gibberish to find the next person's comment. Well, ESR notes the widely accepted method is to consistently intersperse. Just because you're only responding to one thing, make it blatantly clear anyway. Chop it down to exactly what you need without destroying the context so people know exactly what you're talking about. A good text editor is key, unfortunately editors for Windows tend to be lacking, and similarly unfortunate is Windows proliferation. It's like it gets close to functional but fails to complete the last 10%... - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAOYddUzgNqloQMwcRAgdOAJ98efDhxPjtqA2h2YpykJxWNMuYPACfelal fxgZuI7YVr+h0uj3Fjkm0l8= =Bf6L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aaron at speakeasy.org Sun Feb 22 21:02:02 2004 From: aaron at speakeasy.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sun Feb 22 21:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it References: Message-ID: Rich Shepard wrote: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer > this question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to > messages and leave the entire message to which they are replying on > the bottom? Another reason: "Message Preview" view, which lists messages with a snippet of the beginning of the message below the subject. I've had Outbreak users complain to me that my reponses had their quoted text in the Preview instead of my response, because it's at the top. > I send my responses back with each comment following the appropriate > chunk of quoted text. But, they never seem to get a clue. Of course not. They were too busy waiting for you to get a clue from *their* example. In my more paranoid moments, I believe there's a secret BillyWare strategy to isolate its users from the competition by constantly widening the communication gap between them and everyone else. First you cut 'em from the herd... Aaron From fixin at peak.org Sun Feb 22 23:45:02 2004 From: fixin at peak.org (Eric House) Date: Sun Feb 22 23:45:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest In-Reply-To: <20040223002503.24502.33988.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> References: <20040223002503.24502.33988.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <20040223074331.GO28881@peak.org> I'm still not happy with the service, but have learned at least one thing that's helped: there's a firmware upgrade available for the Actiontec modem that fixes its tendency to require powercycling whenever a new dhcp client asks for an IP address. The thing came with version 1.60.10.0.69, and the Qwest folks had me upgrade to 1.60.10.0.71 on hearing my symptoms. I'm still hoping to get this working as well as cable did, but it may not matter. My kids are definitely noticing the speed drop. And they're not gamers either. They're into watching C-span's broadcasts of Senate committee meetings and other stuff that, I figured, would be dull enough at 9K.... --Eric -- ****************************************************************************** * From the desktop of: Eric House, fixin at peak.org * * Crosswords 4.0 for PalmOS is out!: * ****************************************************************************** From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Mon Feb 23 02:36:01 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Mon Feb 23 02:36:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 18:23, Rich Shepard wrote: > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer this > question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages and > leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? > > I send my responses back with each comment following the appropriate chunk > of quoted text. But, they never seem to get a clue. Is this because that's > the only way -- or the default -- for Lookout! and Lookout Faster and no one > tries to do anything different? > Well, I have had someone tell they could not tell where my comments were when I inserted comments, with lots of white space. This led me to a few realizations: 1) The person *expected* top posting, and is confused when he does not see it. 2) When I did not top-post his mail reader (Outlook, the company standard) failed him. #1 is interested, because all the arguments against top-posting, when it seriously impacts, negatively, the communication. Much of communication is about the reception of the message *as is*, *not* the ability to better read the message. #2 is a big problem, especially when I spent 45 minutes editing copy..... I want to actually look at his computer and see what he described. It is scary. > Signed: curious in Troutdale > > Rich -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From jeme at brelin.net Mon Feb 23 03:59:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Mon Feb 23 03:59:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > Well, I have had someone tell they could not tell where my comments were > when I inserted comments, with lots of white space. [snip] > 2) When I did not top-post his mail reader (Outlook, the company > standard) failed him. [snip] > #2 is a big problem, especially when I spent 45 minutes editing > copy..... > > I want to actually look at his computer and see what he described. It > is scary. Oh... I forgot about that. I was at a place last summer that used Outlook and they had me check mail on it a few times... and some messages had a very small print line (I think it was just below the subject, but above the body? Not certain.) that read something like, "extra lines removed" or similar. I found a setting that turned off this "feature" and realized that they were actually trimming whitespace in the message -- spaces AND line feeds. Oh, man... that was just incredible. So it could be that your lines were just crammed against those to which you were responding or on which you were commenting. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From s.coffman at tradetrans.net Mon Feb 23 09:15:02 2004 From: s.coffman at tradetrans.net (Steven D. Coffman) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small Problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023201c3fa31$b3401a10$4901a8c0@mango> Hi All, A friend of mine just installed a dual boot system using RH9.0. Attached is his problem. I've never tried a dual boot system so am unable to give him a clue. Any ideas? Thanks. Steve Coffman I installed Linux yesterday, that went with no problems now But.. After it was done it wanted to start the LILO boot loader. and all I saw was LI . So I booted up with a w98 boot disk, and I ran fdisk /MBR; that fixed my Windows XP So is there an easy way to get the boot loader back?! I know that I should have made a bootdisk when it asked for it From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 23 09:27:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <20040223172604.GB30925@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 02:35:02AM -0800, Zot O'Connor wrote: > On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 18:23, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Perhaps those of you who administer mixed-OS environments can answer this > > question: Why do winduhs users top-post their responses to messages and > > leave the entire message to which they are replying on the bottom? > > > > I send my responses back with each comment following the appropriate chunk > > of quoted text. But, they never seem to get a clue. Is this because that's > > the only way -- or the default -- for Lookout! and Lookout Faster and no one > > tries to do anything different? > > > > Well, I have had someone tell they could not tell where my comments were > when I inserted comments, with lots of white space. That person was misguided and should have been steered towards http://learn.to/quote, http://ursine.ca/jargon/html/email-style.html and/or http://www.newbie.org/ > 2) When I did not top-post his mail reader (Outlook, the company > standard) failed him. Outlook tends to do a bunch of things pretty poorly and nothing well, so it's to be expected. > #2 is a big problem, especially when I spent 45 minutes editing > copy..... Considering everybody else's MUA works right, the logical conclusion is they should switch. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAOjesUzgNqloQMwcRAq+1AJ9VMlwKyKGgTA11eRjxc1jnapqI+QCggruk EGH57sD2geI+PiLqxGGsKxg= =RncM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mikeraz at patch.com Mon Feb 23 09:34:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <20040223172604.GB30925@ursine.ca> References: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> <20040223172604.GB30925@ursine.ca> Message-ID: <20040223173300.GA22488@patch.com> On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 09:26:04AM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: > > #2 is a big problem, especially when I spent 45 minutes editing > > copy..... > > Considering everybody else's MUA works right, the logical conclusion > is they should switch. If you count MUA seats then Outlook style wins the vote and the logical conslusion is we should all change. Nuts to that. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: "Our vision is to speed up time, eventually eliminating it." -- Alex Schure From srau at rauhaus.org Mon Feb 23 09:36:02 2004 From: srau at rauhaus.org (Stafford A. Rau) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> Message-ID: <20040223173600.GB26203@rauhaus.org> * Eric House [040222 06:35]: > I got hooked up with Qwest DSL on Friday (in Corvallis), and am having > a miserable time with the modem. If anybody else has had better luck > I'd love to hear about it, if only to ease my suspicion that I'm > wasting my time. I got an Actiontec to replace a 678 that died on me a year or so ago. I have it set up as just a simple bridge, so there is no firewalling or even layer 3 ip information, other than the administrative interface, configured in it. My ISP-provided ip address resides on the public interface of my firewall. It has worked fine like this, though I haven't touched it since I did the initial configuration. Good luck... --Stafford From sean at fork.com Mon Feb 23 09:51:01 2004 From: sean at fork.com (Sean Whitney) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:51:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small Problem In-Reply-To: <023201c3fa31$b3401a10$4901a8c0@mango> References: <023201c3fa31$b3401a10$4901a8c0@mango> Message-ID: <1077558646.20949.8.camel@einstein.seansdomain.org> I'm surprised, isn't RH9.0 use grub by default? Sean On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 09:23, Steven D. Coffman wrote: > Hi All, > A friend of mine just installed a dual boot system using RH9.0. Attached > is his problem. I've never tried a dual boot system so am unable to give > him a clue. Any ideas? > > Thanks. > > Steve Coffman > > I installed Linux yesterday, that went with no problems now But.. > After it was done it wanted to start the LILO boot loader. and all I saw > was LI . > So I booted up with a w98 boot disk, and I ran fdisk /MBR; that fixed my > Windows XP > So is there an easy way to get the boot loader back?! > > > I know that I should have made a bootdisk when it asked for it > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Sean Whitney -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sean at fork.com Mon Feb 23 09:51:20 2004 From: sean at fork.com (Sean Whitney) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:51:20 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small Problem In-Reply-To: <023201c3fa31$b3401a10$4901a8c0@mango> References: <023201c3fa31$b3401a10$4901a8c0@mango> Message-ID: <1077558613.20949.6.camel@einstein.seansdomain.org> Looks like Lilo didn't get set up right. Use a recover disk, knoppix, etc. Boot using the root partition somthing like... linux root=/dev/partition Fix lilo, rerun lilo and reboot repeat as needed until it's solved. On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 09:23, Steven D. Coffman wrote: > Hi All, > A friend of mine just installed a dual boot system using RH9.0. Attached > is his problem. I've never tried a dual boot system so am unable to give > him a clue. Any ideas? > > Thanks. > > Steve Coffman > > I installed Linux yesterday, that went with no problems now But.. > After it was done it wanted to start the LILO boot loader. and all I saw > was LI . > So I booted up with a w98 boot disk, and I ran fdisk /MBR; that fixed my > Windows XP > So is there an easy way to get the boot loader back?! > > > I know that I should have made a bootdisk when it asked for it > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Sean Whitney -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From griffint at pobox.com Mon Feb 23 10:01:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Mon Feb 23 10:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Small Problem In-Reply-To: <023201c3fa31$b3401a10$4901a8c0@mango> References: <023201c3fa31$b3401a10$4901a8c0@mango> Message-ID: <200402231000.08479.griffint@pobox.com> On Monday 23 February 2004 9:23 am, Steven D. Coffman wrote: > Hi All, > A friend of mine just installed a dual boot system using RH9.0. Attached > is his problem. I've never tried a dual boot system so am unable to give > him a clue. Any ideas? > This is why I keep a Knoppix CD around. It's the best rescue CD ever. The Red Hat 9 boot CD has a rescue mode. It's pretty lame as I recall, but it will do. The basic idea is to boot to rescue mode, mount the Linux partitions, and then run the lilo utility using the -C switch (or chroot first) to reinstall LILO in the MBR. You may want to edit the lilo.conf file first to specify the "linear" option to the kernel. This is one possible fix for the "LI" problem. Alternatively, you could switch to grub to fix the "LI" problem. I resisted the lilo->grub migration for a long time but in the end it was worth the switch, even though doing simple things like booting to single user mode is more work than it ought to be. The problem with Red Hat rescue mode is that it comes up with a sparsely populated /dev directory. So you first have to create your own /dev entries for /dev/hda, /dev/hda1, /dev/hda2 etc using the mknod utility. For that you need to know the major and minor numbers. You can get those from another Linux box if you have one around. Use "ls -l" in /dev to see the major and minor numbers. If you don't have access to another Linux box then check back with the list and we'll get those numbers for you. Terry From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Mon Feb 23 11:12:06 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:12:06 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <16320-60804@sneakemail.com> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin jeme-at-brelin.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > I was at a place last summer that used Outlook and they had me check > mail on it a few times... and some messages had a very small print line > (I think it was just below the subject, but above the body? Not > certain.) that read something like, "extra lines removed" or similar. > I found a setting that turned off this "feature" and realized that they > were actually trimming whitespace in the message -- spaces AND line > feeds. This pretty much mangles plain text "lists" of items and it's a truly horrible default. I've run across lots of folks who wondered why so many people started writing these run-together messages right after the recipient had just upgraded to Office XP. ;-) Fortunately, the default can be changed-- but it only affects new messages that arrive after it's changed. -- Steve From baloo at ursine.ca Mon Feb 23 11:20:03 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:20:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <16320-60804@sneakemail.com> References: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> <16320-60804@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20040223191919.GA4192@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 11:10:59AM -0800, Steve Bonds wrote: > This pretty much mangles plain text "lists" of items and it's a > truly horrible default. On the other hand, if there's no specific reason to maintain a > particular formatting (like lists and alphanumeric diagrams), then > reformatting quoted text to allow for the indent marks is fair game. Not that it's hard, in emacs just hit M-q; in pico it's C-j; etc. > I've run across lots of folks who wondered why so many people > started writing these run-together messages right after the > recipient had just upgraded to Office XP. ;-) Doh! What an expensive mistake. I'm amazed Clark Howard doesn't talk about these people (and people inclined to call into his show, I beg you to call him on this). > Fortunately, the default can be changed-- but it only affects new > messages that arrive after it's changed. Yes, but what a stupid default to have to start with. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAOlI3UzgNqloQMwcRAsFlAJ9CLNKMnGuBbKHcq9HVmXJ2LtS1pgCfUMfx DWnKUFHhH6upzcwqfB/2YFU= =AROX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From danh at fork.com Mon Feb 23 11:27:01 2004 From: danh at fork.com (Dan Haskell) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:27:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] coat left at Linux Clinic Message-ID: Someone left their leather coat at the Linux Clinic. Please contact Paul to get it back: pnelson at riverdale.k12.or.us Dan From lemming at quirkyqatz.com Mon Feb 23 12:04:02 2004 From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark Morgan) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Linux on the Sony TR3A In-Reply-To: <16441.7013.18670.855120@eris.dischordia.net> References: <16441.4609.619911.159402@eris.dischordia.net> <16441.7013.18670.855120@eris.dischordia.net> Message-ID: <56034.134.134.136.1.1077566610.squirrel@webmail.pair.com> gepr at tempusdictum.com said: > Rich Shepard writes: >> >> Did you look at the linux on laptops Web site? >> >> > Might give some hints. It looks like alot of the hardware numbers > are higher, though. Thanks!! > > I'm going to give the Debian netinst 2/21 build a shot... I'd try out a Knoppix CD. Might give a lot of clues for later. -- Mark http://www.kittydream.org - House of Dreams Cat Shelter http://www.quirkyqatz.com/lemming - My own stuff From bspears at easystreet.com Mon Feb 23 12:40:03 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:40:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] X, emacs(fedora) Message-ID: <1077568770.12705.12.camel@apollo.spears.org> I'm running Fedora1, Gnome Desk top. Where does emacs get it's initial window geometry from? -- Bill Spears From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 23 12:49:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] X, emacs(fedora) In-Reply-To: <1077568770.12705.12.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077568770.12705.12.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > I'm running Fedora1, Gnome Desk top. Where does emacs get it's initial > window geometry from? Bill, Gnome may have a default size for all applications. I assume that you can control the command line for launching it over Gnome as I can with Xfce. The command line I have on my panel icon is "emacs -fn 10x20 -geometry 90x32+10+0". This tells the window manager to use the 10x20 font size and make the window 90 char wide x 32 lines high with the position at 10,0. HTH, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 23 13:47:02 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 23 13:47:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Comcast outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86d685h3kr.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Heinlein writes: Paul> Did anyone else have an outage on Comcast-connected machines Paul> this morning? My home system was unavailable for about three Paul> hours. Looks like Comcast is hosed again. ... oops, just came back. It seems to have been a relatively brief outage. I see activity over the link at 13:25, then missing connections (@ 5min intervals) through 13:30, :35 and :40. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From bspears at easystreet.com Mon Feb 23 13:48:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Mon Feb 23 13:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] X, emacs(fedora) In-Reply-To: References: <1077568770.12705.12.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <1077572857.12705.18.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 12:47, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > > > I'm running Fedora1, Gnome Desk top. Where does emacs get it's initial > > window geometry from? > > Bill, > > Gnome may have a default size for all applications. I assume that you can > control the command line for launching it over Gnome as I can with Xfce. > The command line I have on my panel icon is "emacs -fn 10x20 -geometry > 90x32+10+0". This tells the window manager to use the 10x20 font size and > make the window 90 char wide x 32 lines high with the position at 10,0. > > HTH, > > Rich Worked like a charm. Emacs has been opening with the bottom of the window under the bottom panel forever, which is mildly inconvenient. -- Bill Spears From alex at daniloff.com Mon Feb 23 15:01:02 2004 From: alex at daniloff.com (Alex Daniloff) Date: Mon Feb 23 15:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Purpose of init =?iso-8859-1?q?daemon=3F?= Message-ID: <200402232256.i1NMu5v29429@gate.daniloff.com> Hello Linux folkz, I have some questions regarding properties of SysV init daemon. It starts on a system boot up by the kernel call to /sbin/init. Then init reads /etc/inittab and starts/stops services in /etc/inint.d After system has booted into default run level (e.g 5) init still continues to run as a daemon. Does it have any other purposes other than idling in the loop with uid 1 and gid 0? Isn't it right that kernel itself takes care about parent processes and its children? Why do we need init running as a daemon after a system is running in default runlevel? I can start and stop any service without init involved. Could somebody please give me a pointer to the source of information regarding all properties of init. Thanks in advance, Alex From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 23 15:08:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (ed) Date: Mon Feb 23 15:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Purpose of init daemon? In-Reply-To: <200402232256.i1NMu5v29429@gate.daniloff.com> References: <200402232256.i1NMu5v29429@gate.daniloff.com> Message-ID: <403A1653.7090800@alcpress.com> Alex Daniloff wrote: > Hello Linux folkz, > I have some questions regarding properties of SysV init daemon. > It starts on a system boot up by the kernel call to /sbin/init. > Then init reads /etc/inittab and starts/stops services in /etc/inint.d > After system has booted into default run level (e.g 5) init still > continues to run as a daemon. > Does it have any other purposes other than idling in the loop with > uid 1 and gid 0? > Isn't it right that kernel itself takes care about parent processes > and its children? No. init is the parent of all processes. > Why do we need init running as a daemon after a system is running in > default runlevel? Because it may have to respawn processes. > I can start and stop any service without init involved. > Could somebody please give me a pointer to the source of information > regarding all properties of init. > > Thanks in advance, > > Alex > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From fixin at peak.org Mon Feb 23 16:00:02 2004 From: fixin at peak.org (Eric House) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <20040223230102.31280.49407.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> References: <20040223230102.31280.49407.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <20040223235905.GP28881@peak.org> > Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:36:00 -0800 > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? > From: srau at rauhaus.org (Stafford A. Rau) > Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > > * Eric House [040222 06:35]: > > I got hooked up with Qwest DSL on Friday (in Corvallis), and am having > > a miserable time with the modem. If anybody else has had better luck > > I'd love to hear about it, if only to ease my suspicion that I'm > > wasting my time. > > I got an Actiontec to replace a 678 that died on me a year or so ago. > I have it set up as just a simple bridge, so there is no firewalling or > even layer 3 ip information, other than the administrative interface, > configured in it. My ISP-provided ip address resides on the public > interface of my firewall. It sounds as if you have a static IP? If not, do you just run dhcpcd/pump on your router's public interface to get the address? This is certainly what I'd need to do (short of getting a static IP, which I'm hoping to avoid paying for), but I haven't been able to get the modem (in bridge mode) to pass the dhcp requests through. Thanks, --Eric -- ****************************************************************************** * From the desktop of: Eric House, fixin at peak.org * * Crosswords 4.0 for PalmOS is out!: * ****************************************************************************** From jed at alumni.cse.ucsc.edu Mon Feb 23 16:06:02 2004 From: jed at alumni.cse.ucsc.edu (Jed Reynolds) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] [press release] LinuxFest Northwest, April 17, 2004 Message-ID: <403A94B3.10206@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -- #!/jed/reynolds -v # public key available: http://alumni.cse.ucsc.edu/~jed/0xfe543333.txt -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAOpSvu6CMO/5UMzMRApj+AJ9j2ZZHyCj9xsiqBt8yUCYPvmw5cACeOThe thA0/XtxqYJXbMmSchUGt1Q= =3xel -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex at daniloff.com Mon Feb 23 16:07:01 2004 From: alex at daniloff.com (Alex Daniloff) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:07:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Purpose of init =?iso-8859-1?q?daemon=3F?= In-Reply-To: <403A1653.7090800@alcpress.com> Message-ID: <200402240001.i1O01Wd29624@gate.daniloff.com> > > No. init is the parent of all processes. > That is what all links on the web say. What does it mean to be a parent of all processes? How is it different if I start a process as a user? I'm looking for the full description of init functionality, man init provides no information I'm looking for. Could somebody please give me a hint where to find full info on init functionality. Thanks, Alex From ed at alcpress.com Mon Feb 23 16:17:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (ed) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:17:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Purpose of init daemon? In-Reply-To: <200402240001.i1O01Wd29624@gate.daniloff.com> References: <200402240001.i1O01Wd29624@gate.daniloff.com> Message-ID: <403A97C3.5030609@alcpress.com> Alex Daniloff wrote: >>No. init is the parent of all processes. >> > > > That is what all links on the web say. > What does it mean to be a parent of all processes? > How is it different if I start a process as a user? > I'm looking for the full description of init functionality, > man init provides no information I'm looking for. > Could somebody please give me a hint where to find full info > on init functionality. Try using the pstree program. This might give you a hint. Ed > > Thanks, > > Alex From gepr at tempusdictum.com Mon Feb 23 16:21:02 2004 From: gepr at tempusdictum.com (gepr at tempusdictum.com) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:21:02 2004 Subject: Debian/Sarge on TR3A Re: [PLUG] Linux on the Sony TR3A In-Reply-To: <56034.134.134.136.1.1077566610.squirrel@webmail.pair.com> References: <16441.4609.619911.159402@eris.dischordia.net> <16441.7013.18670.855120@eris.dischordia.net> <56034.134.134.136.1.1077566610.squirrel@webmail.pair.com> Message-ID: <16442.39115.586071.65739@eris.dischordia.net> Update: Everything is coming along nicely. Here are a few facts to log for posterity so far: Debian Sarge netinst as of 2/21/2004 (testing distrib) worked great on the install (drives the rj-45 but not the wireless) and installs nicely from debian.oregonstate.edu. X did not fare so well, however. I had to upgrade to the unstable version of xserver-xfree86, which is XFree86 4.3.0-2. The symptom for the failed 4.2.1-12.1 seems to lie in the automatic detection of the right PCI address. It would see 2 addresses for the devices but would end in the error: (WW) I810: No matching Device section for instance (BusID PCI:0:2:1) found (EE) No devices detected. Note that this was in spite of my specifying: BusID "PCI:0:2:0" Thereby confusing my poor little brain. After I upgraded to XFree86 4.3, I still had the problem of specifying memory. I'm still totally unclear on this point. The specs say: Intel? 855GM Chipset Integrated Graphics 64MB (shared) But, the XFree86 log tells me that there's a total of 12288 kb allocated to it and 3964 kByte of "Pre-allocated VideoRAM". So, I have no clue what I'm supposed to have VideoRam set to. Anyway, on to the sound setup! -- glen e. p. ropella =><= Hail Eris! H: 503.630.4505 http://www.ropella.net/~gepr M: 971.219.3846 http://www.tempusdictum.com From alan at clueserver.org Mon Feb 23 16:41:01 2004 From: alan at clueserver.org (alan) Date: Mon Feb 23 16:41:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fax and Asterisk interaction Message-ID: Has anyone had experience configuring Asterisk to handle a fax server? (Like HylaFAX?) I need something that can handle multiple outbound faxes based on available lines. Combining something like HylaFAX and Asterisk seems like it would work, but I am not certain. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Feb 23 17:15:03 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon Feb 23 17:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Octave-2.1.55 for Slackware-9.1 Message-ID: I just built and installed octave-2.1.55 and have a Slackware-9.1 package available. It's 41.4M in size (gack!). "GNU Octave is a high-level language, primarily intended for numerical computations. It provides a convenient command line interface for solving linear and nonlinear problems numerically, and for performing other numerical experiments using a language that is mostly compatible with Matlab. It may also be used as a batch-oriented language. "Octave has extensive tools for solving common numerical linear algebra problems, finding the roots of nonlinear equations, integrating ordinary functions, manipulating polynomials, and integrating ordinary differential and differential-algebraic equations. It is easily extensible and customizable via user-defined functions written in Octave's own language, or using dynamically loaded modules written in C++, C, Fortran, or other languages." If you want the package let me know off the list and I'll see if I can put it -- temporarily -- on my ftp server at aracnet. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From seniorr at aracnet.com Mon Feb 23 17:18:01 2004 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: Mon Feb 23 17:18:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] X, emacs(fedora) In-Reply-To: <1077572857.12705.18.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077568770.12705.12.camel@apollo.spears.org> <1077572857.12705.18.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <86oerpfmxj.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Spears writes: Bill> Worked like a charm. Emacs has been opening with the bottom of Bill> the window under the bottom panel forever, which is mildly Bill> inconvenient. It can be controlled from your .emacs as well. See "Frame Parameters" in the elisp info pages. -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 23 20:57:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 23 20:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fax and Asterisk interaction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040224045626.GM18219@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 05:52:36AM -0800, alan wrote: > Has anyone had experience configuring Asterisk to handle a fax server? > (Like HylaFAX?) > > I need something that can handle multiple outbound faxes based on > available lines. Combining something like HylaFAX and Asterisk seems like > it would work, but I am not certain. It came up on the Debian mailing lists that HylaFAX doesn't see a lot of development anymore. mgetty-fax was suggested as a replacement. I don't have any direct experience with either. That said, this is something I'd *love* to play with. ;-) ;-) -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From chris at maybe.net Mon Feb 23 21:01:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Mon Feb 23 21:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fax and Asterisk interaction In-Reply-To: <20040224045626.GM18219@maybe.net> References: <20040224045626.GM18219@maybe.net> Message-ID: <20040224050009.GN18219@maybe.net> On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 08:56:26PM -0800, Chris Jantzen wrote: > It came up on the Debian mailing lists that HylaFAX doesn't see a lot > of development anymore. mgetty-fax was suggested as a replacement. I > don't have any direct experience with either. BTW-None of this is to disuade you from using HylaFAX if it meets your needs. Just a helpful FYI. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From bspears at easystreet.com Mon Feb 23 22:10:02 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Mon Feb 23 22:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Octave-2.1.55 for Slackware-9.1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077603001.12705.20.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 15:07, Rich Shepard wrote: > I just built and installed octave-2.1.55 and have a Slackware-9.1 package > available. It's 41.4M in size (gack!). > > "GNU Octave is a high-level language, primarily intended for numerical > computations. It provides a convenient command line interface for solving > linear and nonlinear problems numerically, and for performing other > numerical experiments using a language that is mostly compatible with > Matlab. It may also be used as a batch-oriented language. > > "Octave has extensive tools for solving common numerical linear algebra > problems, finding the roots of nonlinear equations, integrating ordinary > functions, manipulating polynomials, and integrating ordinary differential > and differential-algebraic equations. It is easily extensible and > customizable via user-defined functions written in Octave's own language, or > using dynamically loaded modules written in C++, C, Fortran, or other > languages." > > If you want the package let me know off the list and I'll see if I can put > it -- temporarily -- on my ftp server at aracnet. > > Rich Any graphics ability? -- Bill Spears From fixin at peak.org Mon Feb 23 23:10:02 2004 From: fixin at peak.org (Eric House) Date: Mon Feb 23 23:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: Anybody successful with Actiontec R1524SU "DSL Gateway" and Qwest? In-Reply-To: <20040223230102.31280.49407.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> References: <20040223230102.31280.49407.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <20040224070920.GS28881@peak.org> > I got an Actiontec to replace a 678 that died on me a year or so ago. > I have it set up as just a simple bridge, so there is no firewalling or > even layer 3 ip information, other than the administrative interface, > configured in it. My ISP-provided ip address resides on the public > interface of my firewall. > > It has worked fine like this, though I haven't touched it since I did > the initial configuration. A bit more information, since I'm making progress: I've managed to ssh into my network in spite of the Actiontec. Turning the thing into a simple bridge didn't work for me. Apparently it does if you have a static IP address, but dhcpcd wasn't able to work across the modem. There may be a way to make it work, but I haven't found it. That would be ideal, though. Instead what I did was to turn on the "DMZ" feature, which causes the modem to forward all ports to my firewall/router. I then add a rule on my router to forward port 22 on inside the network. One additional change was needed because I'm using shorewall, which in its default configuration rejects packets on eth0 that don't conform to rfc 1918 (which specifies ranges of legal IP addresses for internet traffic.) The internal address that the Actiontec was giving my incomming packets ran afoul of this rule, so I had to remove it. The only remaining problem is letting the world know what IP address I've been assigned. I've written a script that uses snarf and sed to get it from the Actiontec's http interface, but still haven't managed to get ez-ipupdate working across the Actiontec. So as an interim I've set up a cron job to periodically fail to connect to an unlikely port on a machine whose logs I have access to. When Qwest changes my IP address while I'm away from home I can check those logs to see where my machine has recently come in from. Yuck -- but it works. :-) I'm still hoping to improve this thing, and appreciate all the help so far. --Eric -- ****************************************************************************** * From the desktop of: Eric House, fixin at peak.org * * Crosswords 4.0 for PalmOS is out!: * ****************************************************************************** From jeme at brelin.net Tue Feb 24 04:31:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Tue Feb 24 04:31:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Disk footprint on fresh install... Message-ID: So, someone was going on the other day about distribution choices to fit in small spaces. I wasn't going for small-as-possible, but I did trim stuff that I was certain would never be needed on this system in a pinch (the compilers, for example, were removed, as well as alternate shells and editors -- however, vim was substituted for nvi and gawk for mawk and a few other little personal idiosyncracies). Anyway, I rebuilt my NFS server tonight (from "What the hell is wrong with my NFS server?" to "Oh, hell... that's just totally screwed up and should probably just be rebuilt as a Debian system." to "OK... all works now" in 1.5 hours... that includes the troubleshooting and trying to make it better... and it's only a P166). Anyway... here's the skinny: snowman:~# df -m Filesystem 1M-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda1 2041 169 1873 9% / /dev/md0 14668 6323 8345 44% /export snowman:~# du -ms /*|sort -n du: `/proc/249/fd/4': No such file or directory 0 /vmlinuz 1 /cdrom 1 /dev 1 /floppy 1 /home 1 /initrd 1 /mnt 1 /opt 1 /root 1 /tmp 2 /boot 2 /etc 3 /bin 3 /sbin 18 /lib 42 /var 65 /proc 85 /usr 6403 /export /export is my NFS export tree... so that doesn't count. /var contains the Debian package database and dpkg listings (no Non-Free or Non-US in sources.list -- just main contrib and security updates). Now, here's the REALLY interesting bit. snowman:~# du -ms /usr/*|sort -n 1 /usr/X11R6 1 /usr/doc 1 /usr/games 1 /usr/include 1 /usr/info 1 /usr/local 1 /usr/src 3 /usr/sbin 10 /usr/bin 15 /usr/lib 60 /usr/share Crazy, huh? Turns out vim is a good chunk of that /usr/share, but most of it is /usr/share/doc and /usr/share/locale. Anyway, just info for the curious. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From merlyn at stonehenge.com Tue Feb 24 05:26:01 2004 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Tue Feb 24 05:26:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it References: Message-ID: <86wu6ck41i.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Ian" == Ian Burrell writes: Ian> For one thing, it is the default for Microsoft Outlook to start Ian> entering text at the top of the message. Actually, I think it was Alan Flavell who noticed that Outlook is actually doing the right thing. The cursor needs to start at the top of the quoted material SO THAT YOU CAN TRIM IT as you go down through it to answer the email with interspersed comments. What happened though is that a culture grew up around the "cursor is at the top, so replies go at the top" mistaken impression of this feature. This is the mistake. Not what Outlook does. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! From mikeraz at patch.com Tue Feb 24 06:14:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Tue Feb 24 06:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <86wu6ck41i.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86wu6ck41i.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20040224141336.GC497@patch.com> On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 05:20:09AM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > Actually, I think it was Alan Flavell who noticed that Outlook is > actually doing the right thing. The cursor needs to start at the top > of the quoted material SO THAT YOU CAN TRIM IT as you go down through > it to answer the email with interspersed comments. Nice of you to attribute good intentions to the Outlook designers. But when you have a default signature file that is also inserted at the beginning of the email, indicating that your whole reply belongs up there. Outlook also has the braindead behavior of not being able to insert quote indicators of any type without needing to re-spell check the quoted material. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: If you are a fatalist, what can you do about it? -- Ann Edwards-Duff From mikeraz at patch.com Tue Feb 24 06:28:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Tue Feb 24 06:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] IceWM help binding to F1 Message-ID: <20040224142428.GD497@patch.com> In my Debian installation of IceWM the F1 key is bound to invoking a help system. Unfortunately the "default action" that goes with this is broken. The binding isn't in the .icewm/preferences file or in the /etc/X11/icewm/* files. Anyone know: what the default action is and where I can change the behavior of the F1 key? This is blocking launching help on programs with built in help. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: While you're chewing, think of STEVEN SPIELBERG'S bank account ... his will have the same effect as two "STARCH BLOCKERS"! From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 24 08:04:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 24 08:04:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Octave-2.1.55 for Slackware-9.1 In-Reply-To: <1077603001.12705.20.camel@apollo.spears.org> References: <1077603001.12705.20.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Bill Spears wrote: > Any graphics ability? Bill, Yup. You can see an example at . Perhaps later today I'm going to see how it does with MatLab plug-ins. There are a couple of Type-2 fuzzy set creators/operators with which I'd like to play. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From keithl at kl-ic.com Tue Feb 24 08:28:02 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Tue Feb 24 08:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Penguicon in Detroit, April 16-18 Message-ID: <20040224162622.GA24614@gate.kl-ic.com> For those of you that think Linuxfest in Washington is Just Too Close, be aware of Penguicon 2.0 in the Detroit, MI area April 16-18 . http://www.penguicon.org This is a combined Science Fiction / Linux convention. I went last year; it was interesting, and while it was mostly regional there were interesting people from all over the eastern U.S. Those travelling through Detroit for other reasons should consider it. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From pem at nellump.net Tue Feb 24 08:41:02 2004 From: pem at nellump.net (Paul Mullen) Date: Tue Feb 24 08:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Octave-2.1.55 for Slackware-9.1 In-Reply-To: References: <1077603001.12705.20.camel@apollo.spears.org> Message-ID: <20040224163953.GA16488@nellump.net> On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 08:02:55AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Perhaps later today I'm going to see how it does with MatLab > plug-ins. There are a couple of Type-2 fuzzy set creators/operators > with which I'd like to play. Check out the GNU Octave Repository and Matlinks for two decent collections of F.O.S.S. Octave/MATlab scripts. Both are fairly impressive for a corner of the world that typically doesn't embrace open source software. There will likely never be as broad a selection of '.m' scripts freely available as can be purchased, but these two projects are a nice start. Paul From chris at maybe.net Tue Feb 24 09:02:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Tue Feb 24 09:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Octave-2.1.55 for Slackware-9.1 In-Reply-To: <20040224163953.GA16488@nellump.net> References: <1077603001.12705.20.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040224163953.GA16488@nellump.net> Message-ID: <20040224170115.GA3326@maybe.net> On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 08:02:55AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Perhaps later today I'm going to see how it does with MatLab > plug-ins. There are a couple of Type-2 fuzzy set creators/operators > with which I'd like to play. You might check out R as well. http://www.r-project.org/ -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From baloo at ursine.ca Tue Feb 24 09:14:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Tue Feb 24 09:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <86wu6ck41i.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> References: <86wu6ck41i.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> Message-ID: <20040224171328.GA16911@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 05:20:09AM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > This is the mistake. Not what Outlook does. The way that outlook quotes, with the pseudo-headers and the four line gap seems to imply that you leave the cursor there. Most other MUA's tell the editor to put the quoted text at the top and put the cursor on the first letter. Outlook's behavior is wrong. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAO4Y4UzgNqloQMwcRAlfPAJ9qTv/v4tMOUyaQ5biY1DaemZB/gQCfZPOA kZw1VpHSkEmPa6Sfuz3RFxY= =3Kgc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 24 09:19:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 24 09:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Octave-2.1.55 for Slackware-9.1 In-Reply-To: <20040224170115.GA3326@maybe.net> References: <1077603001.12705.20.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040224163953.GA16488@nellump.net> <20040224170115.GA3326@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > You might check out R as well. Chris, I've been using R for years, particularly with GRASS. Octave is the only source I've found for calculating the eigenvector and associated principal eigenvalue for a symmetric matrix. If you know of another algorithm (in C, java or pseudocode) please let me know. I've looked without finding anything. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 24 09:28:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 24 09:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Octave-2.1.55 for Slackware-9.1 In-Reply-To: References: <1077603001.12705.20.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040224163953.GA16488@nellump.net> <20040224170115.GA3326@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Octave is the only source I've found for calculating the eigenvector and > associated principal eigenvalue for a symmetric matrix. If you know of > another algorithm (in C, java or pseudocode) please let me know. I've looked > without finding anything. Sigh. Doesn't it always work this way? While I've spent too much time digging in dusty, ill-lit corners of the Web looking for algorithms and code for the above, it never occurred to me to look on my own system. Turns out that both GRASS and R have functions. The latter is designed more for spectral decomposition of a matrix while the former is just what I've been seeking. Turns out it was in the image processing section and I've not done that with GRASS for quite a few years. Who can afford satellite scenes? Not I or my clients! Excelsior! Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From apollyon42 at comcast.net Tue Feb 24 11:43:01 2004 From: apollyon42 at comcast.net (rikell42) Date: Tue Feb 24 11:43:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ircd software Message-ID: <1077651950.17510.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> I recently installed ircd hybrid version 7. I have read that this is a good piece of software for hosting your own irc server. I found that the software is not that user friendly and that the documentation is lacking. I have a feeling that I see this as the case not because it is the truth but because of my inexperience with such software. If anyone would like to give me some advice that would be great. A couple links would be nice also. or maybe just maybe some words of encouragement. From AthlonRob at axpr.net Tue Feb 24 12:04:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ircd software In-Reply-To: <1077651950.17510.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> References: <1077651950.17510.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> Message-ID: <1077653026.6353.1.camel@dell.linux.box> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 11:45, rikell42 wrote: > or maybe just maybe some words of encouragement. You can do it! I know you can. I have faith in you. Just take it one step at a time and you'll do just fine. Try, try, and try again. If at first you don't succeed, try and try again. I think I can I think I can I think I can. How's that? :-) Rob From cstevens at gencom.us Tue Feb 24 12:10:02 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MWVLUG Fork? Message-ID: <1077652192.9633.166.camel@sparticus> All, Here's the latest: http://www.mwvlug.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=87&mode=&order=0&thold=0 -Cooper From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 24 12:58:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MWVLUG Fork? In-Reply-To: <1077652192.9633.166.camel@sparticus> References: <1077652192.9633.166.camel@sparticus> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, D. Cooper Stevenson wrote: > Here's the latest: > > http://www.mwvlug.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=87&mode=&order=0&thold=0 Cooper, Ah, this looks so much like Israeli society (and I lived there in the mid-1980s so I can write from experience). Get 3 Israelis together to discuss politics and before you know it you have 5 opinions and 6 new political parties. Can everyone be satisfied? Nah! But, some folks will do their own thing regardless. Think you can turn this into a daytime TV soap opera? :-) Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From chris at maybe.net Tue Feb 24 13:05:03 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:05:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ircd software In-Reply-To: <1077651950.17510.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> References: <1077651950.17510.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> Message-ID: <20040224210433.GB3326@maybe.net> On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 11:45:50AM -0800, rikell42 wrote: > I recently installed ircd hybrid version 7. I have read that this is a > good piece of software for hosting your own irc server. I found that the > software is not that user friendly and that the documentation is > lacking. > > I have a feeling that I see this as the case not because it is the truth > but because of my inexperience with such software. > > If anyone would like to give me some advice that would be great. A > couple links would be nice also. > > or maybe just maybe some words of encouragement. I have more experience with ircd servers than I want. And they all suck. Documentation, source, all of it. The least sucky of them all, I've found, after "all these years" is Bahamut, which is used by DAL.net: http://bahamut.dal.net/ Then if you want to be cool, you need to get ircservices: http://www.ircservices.za.net/ -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 14:03:02 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Tue Feb 24 14:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040224220213.27061.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> I'm running Fedora Core 1, fully patched. When I try to start mysqld with the "service" command, it starts, but reports that it failed: service mysqld start Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. Starting MySQL: [FAILED] It seems that it is running however: service mysqld status mysqld (pid 4632) is running... and... ps -A 4608 pts/0 00:00:00 safe_mysqld 4632 pts/0 00:00:00 mysqld I am able to log into mysql and access tables and data. Any idea as to why it starts, but reports that it failed? -Scott __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 24 14:27:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 24 14:27:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: <20040224220213.27061.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040224220213.27061.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > I'm running Fedora Core 1, fully patched. When I try to start mysqld > with the "service" command, it starts, but reports that it failed: > > service mysqld start > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > It seems that it is running however: Scott, Do you get the same failure if you run the command, 'service mysqld start' after having explicitly stopped the process? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From Rob.Anderson at nike.com Tue Feb 24 14:34:02 2004 From: Rob.Anderson at nike.com (Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)) Date: Tue Feb 24 14:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem Message-ID: <200402242232.i1OMWsT2022317@barrierb241.nike.com> Perhaps you have started it as a user that does not have permission to create the .pid file, or logs? -Rob Anderson > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Scott Van Hoosen > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:02 PM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem > > > I'm running Fedora Core 1, fully patched. When I try to start mysqld > with the "service" command, it starts, but reports that it failed: > > service mysqld start > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > It seems that it is running however: > > service mysqld status > mysqld (pid 4632) is running... > > and... > > ps -A > 4608 pts/0 00:00:00 safe_mysqld > 4632 pts/0 00:00:00 mysqld > > I am able to log into mysql and access tables and data. > > Any idea as to why it starts, but reports that it failed? > > -Scott > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > From buchholz at easystreet.com Tue Feb 24 15:02:02 2004 From: buchholz at easystreet.com (Don Buchholz) Date: Tue Feb 24 15:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Purpose of init daemon? In-Reply-To: <200402240001.i1O01Wd29624@gate.daniloff.com> References: <200402240001.i1O01Wd29624@gate.daniloff.com> Message-ID: <403BD7BC.1080504@easystreet.com> Alex Daniloff wrote: >What does it mean to be a parent of all processes? > try killing "init" and see what happens to all else :-) [umm, make sure you've saved any open files, etc. that you want to keep] From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 15:07:02 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Tue Feb 24 15:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040224230558.90589.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com> Yes, it fails to start after "service mysqld stop" as well as "killall mysqld." -Scott --- Rich Shepard wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > > > I'm running Fedora Core 1, fully patched. When I try to start > mysqld > > with the "service" command, it starts, but reports that it failed: > > > > service mysqld start > > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > > > It seems that it is running however: > > Scott, > > Do you get the same failure if you run the command, 'service mysqld > start' > after having explicitly stopped the process? > > Rich > > -- > Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President > Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 15:08:01 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Tue Feb 24 15:08:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: <200402242232.i1OMWsT2022317@barrierb241.nike.com> Message-ID: <20040224230646.36562.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> I started it as root. -Scott --- "Anderson, Rob (Global Trade)" wrote: > Perhaps you have started it as a user that does not have permission > to create the .pid file, or logs? > > -Rob Anderson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From cstevens at gencom.us Tue Feb 24 15:13:01 2004 From: cstevens at gencom.us (D. Cooper Stevenson) Date: Tue Feb 24 15:13:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Purpose of init daemon? In-Reply-To: <403BD7BC.1080504@easystreet.com> References: <200402240001.i1O01Wd29624@gate.daniloff.com> <403BD7BC.1080504@easystreet.com> Message-ID: <1077663194.12290.60.camel@sparticus> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 15:01, Don Buchholz wrote: > Alex Daniloff wrote: > > >What does it mean to be a parent of all processes? Well, Alex, when two processes love each other very much, they have child processes. How they actually do this is something your mother can explain to you. Okay, kidding aside. Let's say you open a terminal window. To the system this means that it needs to launch a process called "bash." If you run a program inside the shell, say, "vi," then "vi" will be a subprocess--or child process of the original "bash" process. The "bash" process is thought to be the "parent" process. All the processes on a running system's process tree eventually leads to 'init.' the parent of all processes. To make this clearer, run this command in a linux terminal: ps -ef --forest All kidding asside, I hope this helps! -Cooper > > > try killing "init" and see what happens to all else :-) > [umm, make sure you've saved any open files, etc. that you want to keep] > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- -------------------------------------------------------------- | Cooper Stevenson | Em: cooper at gencom.us | | General Computer | Ph: 541.924.9434 | | "Open For Business" | Www: http://www.gencom.us | -------------------------------------------------------------- From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Tue Feb 24 15:38:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Feb 24 15:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: <20040224230646.36562.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040224230646.36562.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > I started it as root. Scott, Hmm-m-m. Don't know if mysql lets root start it, but postgresql doesn't. The postmaster must be started by user 'postgres', or whatever you named the user when the application was installed and configured. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From barryb at proaxis.com Tue Feb 24 16:29:02 2004 From: barryb at proaxis.com (Bill Barry) Date: Tue Feb 24 16:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: <200402242232.i1OMWsT2022317@barrierb241.nike.com> References: <200402242232.i1OMWsT2022317@barrierb241.nike.com> Message-ID: <20040225002805.GA4934@edge> On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 02:32:48PM -0800, Anderson, Rob (Global Trade) wrote: > Perhaps you have started it as a user that does not have permission to create the .pid file, or logs? > > -Rob Anderson > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org > > [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of Scott Van Hoosen > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:02 PM > > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > > Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem > > > > > > I'm running Fedora Core 1, fully patched. When I try to start mysqld > > with the "service" command, it starts, but reports that it failed: > > > > service mysqld start > > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > > > It seems that it is running however: > > > > service mysqld status > > mysqld (pid 4632) is running... > > > > and... > > > > ps -A > > 4608 pts/0 00:00:00 safe_mysqld > > 4632 pts/0 00:00:00 mysqld > > > > I am able to log into mysql and access tables and data. > > > > Any idea as to why it starts, but reports that it failed? > > Rob is on the right track here. In the mysql init.d file installed by Fedora, the server is first started and then a test is run to see if the server is running. This test required a username that was not supplied in the originally installed init.d script. This is discussed in this bug report https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=108779 There is a new init.d script for mysql here https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=95652&action=view that fixes the problem. Bill Barry From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Tue Feb 24 17:27:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Tue Feb 24 17:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Postfix dns checks problems... Message-ID: <1077671979.9996.1.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> I would think I could do a forward check but is it me or do some outfits send their ip address when they should send their hostname? How do you program allow if either forward or reverse check works? From plug_0 at robinson-west.com Tue Feb 24 17:45:02 2004 From: plug_0 at robinson-west.com (Darkhorse) Date: Tue Feb 24 17:45:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Modem types for quest DSL service in St. Helens. Message-ID: <1077673065.9996.9.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> There is an Actiontec 1520 external Cisco 678 external apparently supported but not offered They say they've discontinued the Cisco modem, but will it work? From apollyon42 at comcast.net Tue Feb 24 17:53:03 2004 From: apollyon42 at comcast.net (rikell42) Date: Tue Feb 24 17:53:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ircd software In-Reply-To: <20040224210433.GB3326@maybe.net> References: <1077651950.17510.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> <20040224210433.GB3326@maybe.net> Message-ID: <1077674165.30817.4.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> thanks for the links. The documentation is much better with this project. Still no luck getting it to work though. I think I need to find something a little bit less challenging then having my own irc server. It is not like I have anyone I would chat with anyway. I just kind of wanted to see if I could get it to work. I know now that this is just not in my capability's at the moment. Maybe after a couple more years of messing around with the computer I will come back to this project. Maybe by then I will have a good reason to have my own irc server. I don't know. On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 13:04, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 11:45:50AM -0800, rikell42 wrote: > > I recently installed ircd hybrid version 7. I have read that this is a > > good piece of software for hosting your own irc server. I found that the > > software is not that user friendly and that the documentation is > > lacking. > > > > I have a feeling that I see this as the case not because it is the truth > > but because of my inexperience with such software. > > > > If anyone would like to give me some advice that would be great. A > > couple links would be nice also. > > > > or maybe just maybe some words of encouragement. > > > I have more experience with ircd servers than I want. And they all > suck. Documentation, source, all of it. The least sucky of them all, > I've found, after "all these years" is Bahamut, which is used by > DAL.net: > > http://bahamut.dal.net/ > > Then if you want to be cool, you need to get ircservices: > > http://www.ircservices.za.net/ From guy1656 at ados.com Tue Feb 24 18:12:02 2004 From: guy1656 at ados.com (GLL) Date: Tue Feb 24 18:12:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Purpose of init daemon? KAQ? In-Reply-To: <403BD7BC.1080504@easystreet.com> References: <200402240001.i1O01Wd29624@gate.daniloff.com> <403BD7BC.1080504@easystreet.com> Message-ID: <200402241815.32588.guy1656@ados.com> : :What does it mean to be a parent of all processes? : : try killing "init" and see what happens to all else :-) : [umm, make sure you've saved any open files, etc. that you want to keep] Hey, if it continues to run anyways, could we name it a new distro? Named after Karen Ann Quinlan? - GLL (OK, that was crass, I know ...) From joshyaganeh at comcast.net Tue Feb 24 19:34:02 2004 From: joshyaganeh at comcast.net (Josh Yaganeh) Date: Tue Feb 24 19:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> Message-ID: <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> Hi everyone, I am in the process of trying to set up a webserver for me and some friends to use. I currently have K12LTSP linux installed (The distro used at my school) with apache (with perl, php, mysql, etc...), ftpd, and with no gui. I'm fairly comfortable in the terminal, and with editing config files. So far i have gotten apache to host users public_html folders and have started to try and get virtualhosts set up for several domain names. I'd like to give each user a private and public ftp account so they can upload files for personal storage and also host small files for friends to access. If anyone can help me get this set up or provide me with hints/suggestions/nudges in the right direction, I'd be most grateful. In addition, would anyone be kind enough to tell me if there is a more suitable linux distribution or if there are any front-end gui programs to configure apache and ftpd? Thanks for any help! Feel free to reply either in the PLUG lists or at my email (joshyaganeh at comcast dot net) Josh From svanhoosen at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 21:42:01 2004 From: svanhoosen at yahoo.com (Scott Van Hoosen) Date: Tue Feb 24 21:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: <20040225002805.GA4934@edge> Message-ID: <20040225054049.43708.qmail@web40804.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks much, that did the trick! Have I ever told you guys that you rock? ;) -Scott > Rob is on the right track here. In the mysql init.d file installed > by Fedora, the server is first started and then a test is > run to see if the server is running. This test required > a username that was not supplied in the originally installed > init.d script. This is discussed in this bug report > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=108779 > There is a new init.d script for mysql here > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=95652&action=view > that fixes the problem. > > Bill Barry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 24 22:00:03 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 24 22:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1077688808.4304.15.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 11:10, Josh Yaganeh wrote: > would anyone be > kind enough to tell me if there is a more suitable linux distribution > or if there are any front-end gui programs to configure apache and > ftpd? > You can use webmin. It runs on your server at port 10000. You don't need a GUI on the server that way, it's all run through your browser. As far as a distro goes, it's all good AFIK for something like a web server. Apache is great software. Webmin is on most of the RH and FC1 CDs I have, but you can download it, too. I do not recall the site, though. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From dzl at frenetic.com Tue Feb 24 22:10:02 2004 From: dzl at frenetic.com (Daniel Logghe) Date: Tue Feb 24 22:10:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> Message-ID: <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> First, in the future when you start a new topic could you send a new message instead of just replying to a message. For those of us using threaded views of our email this message is buried in a thread about dsl routers. Josh Yaganeh wrote: > Hi everyone, I am in the process of trying to set up a webserver for > me and some friends to use. I currently have K12LTSP linux installed > (The distro used at my school) with apache (with perl, php, mysql, > etc...), ftpd, and with no gui. I'm fairly comfortable in the terminal, > and with editing config files. So far i have gotten apache to host users > public_html folders and have started to try and get virtualhosts set up > for several domain names. I'd like to give each user a private and > public ftp account so they can upload files for personal storage and > also host small files for friends to access. If anyone can help me get > this set up or provide me with hints/suggestions/nudges in the right > direction, I'd be most grateful. In addition, would anyone be kind > enough to tell me if there is a more suitable linux distribution or if > there are any front-end gui programs to configure apache and ftpd? Yes, any of the more mainstream general purpose distros will likely serve your purposes quite well and be a more pleasant system to work with for learning purposes. I recommend Debian, but Fedora, Mandrake, Slackware, and SuSE are all good options. K12LTSP is an excellent distro for it's purposes, but is pretty specialized. Since K12LTSP is Redhat based you might be most comfortable with Fedora, or possibly Mandrake. As for gui configuration programs, there are a few options out there. Check out webmin, it's a web based frontend for configuring a number of things, including Apache. As for ftp, don't. Unless you have a really pressing need to use ftp there are better options. FTP is horribly insecure, it's also generally slower than HTTP. Learn all about SSH and the things you can do with it including scp and sftp. And for serving files to the general public do it through Apache. From alexchally at earthlink.net Tue Feb 24 22:14:02 2004 From: alexchally at earthlink.net (Alex Chally) Date: Tue Feb 24 22:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> Message-ID: On Feb 24, 2004, at 10:09 PM, Daniel Logghe wrote: > > As for ftp, don't. Unless you have a really pressing need to use ftp > there are better options. FTP is horribly insecure, it's also > generally slower than HTTP. Learn all about SSH and the things you can > do with it including scp and sftp. And for serving files to the > general public do it through Apache. > > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. From mikedela at theplatinumrule.com Tue Feb 24 22:19:02 2004 From: mikedela at theplatinumrule.com (Mike De La Mater) Date: Tue Feb 24 22:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> Message-ID: <1077689966.4304.28.camel@rhws.theplatinumrule.com> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 22:13, Alex Chally wrote: > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have > ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. If you need it, make sure to lock it down, dictating usernames, times of day, subnets allowed, everything you can. Be very certain to disallow anonymous FTP if at all possible. My 2 cents, anyway. -- Mike De La Mater Starsign Northwest Searchlights and Novalights to light up your special event http://www.theplatinumrule.com/starsign-nw mikedela at ipns.com 503-702-6749 From freyley at gmx.net Tue Feb 24 23:37:02 2004 From: freyley at gmx.net (Jeff Schwaber) Date: Tue Feb 24 23:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> Message-ID: <1077694565.3231.7.camel@zadie> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 22:13, Alex Chally wrote: > On Feb 24, 2004, at 10:09 PM, Daniel Logghe wrote: > > > > > As for ftp, don't. Unless you have a really pressing need to use ftp > > there are better options. FTP is horribly insecure, it's also > > generally slower than HTTP. Learn all about SSH and the things you can > > do with it including scp and sftp. And for serving files to the > > general public do it through Apache. > > > > > > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have > ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. proftpd apt-get install proftpd http://www.proftpd.org/ Jeff From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Wed Feb 25 00:03:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Wed Feb 25 00:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <1077696146.8948.30.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 03:58, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor wrote: > > Well, I have had someone tell they could not tell where my comments were > > when I inserted comments, with lots of white space. > I found a > setting that turned off this "feature" and realized that they were > actually trimming whitespace in the message -- spaces AND line feeds. > So it could be that your lines were just crammed against those to which > you were responding or on which you were commenting. That sounds right. Do you remember the setting? It is what he is describing. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Wed Feb 25 00:04:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Wed Feb 25 00:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Fax and Asterisk interaction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077696217.8948.32.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 05:52, alan wrote: > Has anyone had experience configuring Asterisk to handle a fax server? > (Like HylaFAX?) Check the asterisk lists. This is in alpha code. Wait a few weeks and I will have it working on my asterisk system. > > I need something that can handle multiple outbound faxes based on > available lines. Combining something like HylaFAX and Asterisk seems like > it would work, but I am not certain. > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From jeme at brelin.net Wed Feb 25 00:42:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Wed Feb 25 00:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Alex Chally wrote: > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have > ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. There's always HTTP put. But seriously... ftp is bad news. You just shouldn't use it period. It's not like it's even EASIER than anything else. For those old dogs that want to use it because they know it, it's time to learn a new trick. The new people won't know the difference. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From keithl at kl-ic.com Wed Feb 25 01:48:02 2004 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Wed Feb 25 01:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDR speedup - observations Message-ID: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> I burn a lot of Knoppix disks. I recently bought two more burners, and now have two CDR drives on one machine, and one on another. Some observations: 1) Use the fine-pitch or round ATA100 cables to connect to the CDR drive. With a 48X drive, it goes twice as fast as the older style large-pitch ATA33 IDE cables. 2) Do not share the cable connection for two CDR drives. Use a separate IDE socket and cable for each drive. cdrecord runs a LOT slower (10X) if it is talking to two drives over one cable. These may be obvious, but I bet some of you have the wrong cabling in your machines. I did until I fixed it. BTW, two 52X CDR drives seem to work just about as fast as a single drive, on a 1.8GB P4 / ATA133 / Rambus machine. I wonder how many drives and IDE controllers one could stuff in a Linux box before it started slowing down? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at ieee.org Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 25 05:55:03 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 25 05:55:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Josh Yaganeh wrote: > Hi everyone, I am in the process of trying to set up a webserver for > me and some friends to use. Excellent! > I'd like to give each user a private and public ftp account so they > can upload files for personal storage and also host small files for > friends to access. If K12LTSP is based on Red Hat 9, then you'll want to install the vsftpd package. As ftp daemons go, it can be made relatively secure. Then have a look at the files in /usr/share/doc/vsftpd-1.1.3, especially the FAQ. It should get you started in the right direction. > In addition, would anyone be kind enough to tell me if there is a > more suitable linux distribution Still a student, eh? So naive. :-) This is the sort of question that starts flame wars. You're inviting everyone to stand up and shout MY DISTRO IS BEST at the top of their lungs. If you're familiar with K12LTSP, then stick with it, at least for a while. It'll work fine while you concentrate on getting your web server running correctly. Once you're content with that, then you'll be in a better postition to migrate to a different distribution, if that's what you want. And here's my two cents of advice: Know yourself first. The trick is less to find the "best" distribution and more to find the one that matches your skills, goals, and hardware. I run three distributions at home -- Red Hat (my workstation), Debian (my wife's workstation), and Gentoo (our mail/web server) -- and I manage a bunch of Red Hat and Fedora machines at work. Each distribution has some unique strengths, and each presents some special demands. There isn't a right distribution; there are only trade-offs, and you have to figure out how *you* fit into the mix. -- Paul Heinlein From m at phxlinux.org Wed Feb 25 07:21:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 25 07:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: <20040224220213.27061.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > I'm running Fedora Core 1, fully patched. When I try to start mysqld > with the "service" command, it starts, but reports that it failed: > > service mysqld start > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > It seems that it is running however: > > service mysqld status > mysqld (pid 4632) is running... > > and... > > ps -A > 4608 pts/0 00:00:00 safe_mysqld > 4632 pts/0 00:00:00 mysqld > > I am able to log into mysql and access tables and data. > > Any idea as to why it starts, but reports that it failed? Because it's already running... From m at phxlinux.org Wed Feb 25 07:28:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 25 07:28:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] mysqld problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Scott Van Hoosen wrote: > > > I'm running Fedora Core 1, fully patched. When I try to start mysqld > > with the "service" command, it starts, but reports that it failed: > > > > service mysqld start > > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > > > It seems that it is running however: > > > > service mysqld status > > mysqld (pid 4632) is running... > > > > and... > > > > ps -A > > 4608 pts/0 00:00:00 safe_mysqld > > 4632 pts/0 00:00:00 mysqld > > > > I am able to log into mysql and access tables and data. > > > > Any idea as to why it starts, but reports that it failed? > > Because it's already running... Errrr... nevermind. Ooh! Look! A bunny! From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 25 07:42:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 25 07:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <1077723649.7242.17.camel@dell.linux.box> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 01:47, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > BTW, two 52X CDR drives seem to work just about as fast as a single > drive, on a 1.8GB P4 / ATA133 / Rambus machine. I wonder how many > drives and IDE controllers one could stuff in a Linux box before it > started slowing down? You could do the math... 33MHz, 32-bit PCI bus... you'll run in to a slowdown when you saturate the PCI bus. With DMA enabled on the drives, they certainly don't eat a lot of CPU while burning. However, you need to be able to feed them data fast enough so as to not incur buffer underruns. If you're burning off a single hard disk to fifteen CD-R drives, you'll find your hard disk cannot feed that many drives fast enough. Again, you could probably do a little math... I think the faster (consumer-grade) hard drives out there are able to sustain around 30MB/sec read speeds. Aside from actual hardware speed limitations, I'm not sure where any software bottlenecks would occur... especially if you're using 2.6. My two cents... Rob From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 25 07:52:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 25 07:52:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <1077694565.3231.7.camel@zadie> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> <1077694565.3231.7.camel@zadie> Message-ID: <1077724317.7242.27.camel@dell.linux.box> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 23:36, Jeff Schwaber wrote: > proftpd > > apt-get install proftpd > > http://www.proftpd.org/ K12LTSP, a RH-based distribution, includes apt-get? From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 25 07:52:22 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 25 07:52:22 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> Message-ID: <1077724264.7240.25.camel@dell.linux.box> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 22:13, Alex Chally wrote: > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have > ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. Do it if you must.... but in addition to what others have said... here is my two cents on FTP. FTP is going away. As others have stated, it is slow and it is insecure. FTP clients are disappearing. Most Windoze users only have two FTP clients on their computers; the command-line BSD FTP program and their web browser. Neither is meant to be a fully featured FTP client. I think there are HTTP-based apache mods that can be used to easily allow users to upload files. There was some discussion about this a few weeks ago on this list. I see no reason this couldn't be tunneled over SSL to be a bit more secure. Really, though, look in to what ssh provides you. Make sure you disable telnet if you haven't already. Start using ssh. It'll provide you with scp access... if the users are running linux at home, they can scp files as easily as cp'ing them. Otherwise, they can grab scp.exe from the Putty download page and still scp files as easily as copying them. It's secure, it's safe, it's faster.... My two cents... :-) Rob From ed at alcpress.com Wed Feb 25 07:54:02 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (ed) Date: Wed Feb 25 07:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> Message-ID: <403C534A.9090803@alcpress.com> Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Alex Chally wrote: > >>I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have >>ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. > > > There's always HTTP put. > > But seriously... ftp is bad news. You just shouldn't use it period. > > It's not like it's even EASIER than anything else. For those old dogs > that want to use it because they know it, it's time to learn a new trick. > The new people won't know the difference. They may. People designing web pages with Microsoft Front Page may have to use FTP - unless Microsoft has added webdav in recent versions. Ed From chris at maybe.net Wed Feb 25 08:00:03 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:00:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] "OT": computer donation Message-ID: <20040225155942.GF3326@maybe.net> Since, AFAIK, freegeek doesn't give out anything less than PII these days, I thought I'd give people here a shot at a computer before they recycled it: It's a dual PentiumPro 200 with 512K cache on a Providence mainboard (the best PPro's Intel made, short of the Baby Xeons ["PII Overdrive?" Whatever marketing called it]) It's got .... a hard drive. It's got .... RAM ... it's RAM is pretty obscure, and last I remember we filled it out reasonably well. Maybe as much as 384MB? It has onboard Ethernet and SE Ultrawide Dual SCSI I'll collect replies and after a "reasonable amount of time" give it to the "most worthy cause". If no one responds, it'll (sadly) go to freegeek where I suspect they'll trash it. Oh, and I can not drive it anywhere as I don't drive. I live close to Beaverton Transit Center. I might be cajoled into hauling it to another MAX station, though. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From m at phxlinux.org Wed Feb 25 08:01:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <1077724264.7240.25.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 22:13, Alex Chally wrote: > > > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have > > ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. > > Really, though, look in to what ssh provides you. Make sure you disable > telnet if you haven't already. Start using ssh. It'll provide you with > scp access... if the users are running linux at home, they can scp files > as easily as cp'ing them. Otherwise, they can grab scp.exe from the > Putty download page and still scp files as easily as copying them. There's also WinSCP which has a nice interface for your Windows users: http://winscp.sourceforge.net From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 25 08:08:01 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:08:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <403C534A.9090803@alcpress.com> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> <403C534A.9090803@alcpress.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, ed wrote: > They may. People designing web pages with Microsoft Front Page may > have to use FTP - unless Microsoft has added webdav in recent > versions. If the clients can use WebDAV, then things become much easier. :-) -- Paul Heinlein From mikeraz at patch.com Wed Feb 25 08:25:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <1077724264.7240.25.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> <1077724264.7240.25.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <20040225162347.GA14360@patch.com> On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 07:51:04AM -0800, AthlonRob wrote: > Really, though, look in to what ssh provides you. Make sure you disable > telnet if you haven't already. Start using ssh. It'll provide you with > scp access... if the users are running linux at home, they can scp files > as easily as cp'ing them. And if your users are Mac based the OSX people have scp built right in. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: ... The prejudices people feel about each other disappear when then get to know each other. -- Kirk, "Elaan of Troyius", stardate 4372.5 From boro at borosenclave.com Wed Feb 25 08:55:02 2004 From: boro at borosenclave.com (borodimer) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] ircd software In-Reply-To: <1077674165.30817.4.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> Message-ID: Before you despair, you might want to give this irc server a look: http://www.tr-ircd.net/. For just a casual perusal of the documentation pages, it seems that each option is well commented. It wouldn't hurt to give it a look. Thanks, Phil Schultz Head of SalemLUG www.salemlug.org -----Original Message----- From: plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-admin at lists.pdxlinux.org]On Behalf Of rikell42 Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:56 PM To: plug Subject: Re: [PLUG] ircd software thanks for the links. The documentation is much better with this project. Still no luck getting it to work though. I think I need to find something a little bit less challenging then having my own irc server. It is not like I have anyone I would chat with anyway. I just kind of wanted to see if I could get it to work. I know now that this is just not in my capability's at the moment. Maybe after a couple more years of messing around with the computer I will come back to this project. Maybe by then I will have a good reason to have my own irc server. I don't know. On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 13:04, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 11:45:50AM -0800, rikell42 wrote: > > I recently installed ircd hybrid version 7. I have read that this is a > > good piece of software for hosting your own irc server. I found that the > > software is not that user friendly and that the documentation is > > lacking. > > > > I have a feeling that I see this as the case not because it is the truth > > but because of my inexperience with such software. > > > > If anyone would like to give me some advice that would be great. A > > couple links would be nice also. > > > > or maybe just maybe some words of encouragement. > > > I have more experience with ircd servers than I want. And they all > suck. Documentation, source, all of it. The least sucky of them all, > I've found, after "all these years" is Bahamut, which is used by > DAL.net: > > http://bahamut.dal.net/ > > Then if you want to be cool, you need to get ircservices: > > http://www.ircservices.za.net/ _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Wed Feb 25 09:03:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <1077728559.8948.44.camel@kat.zotnet.com> A curious test would be to place a couple drives in a couple firewire/ieee1394 enclosures and see performance. I am betting the overall write time would be the same, maybe slower, but performance and scalability would go up. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From kyle at silverbeach.net Wed Feb 25 09:49:01 2004 From: kyle at silverbeach.net (Kyle Hayes) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:49:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] "OT": computer donation In-Reply-To: <20040225155942.GF3326@maybe.net> References: <20040225155942.GF3326@maybe.net> Message-ID: <200402250948.09363.kyle@silverbeach.net> On Wednesday 25 February 2004 07:59, Chris Jantzen wrote: > Since, AFAIK, freegeek doesn't give out anything less than PII > these days, I thought I'd give people here a shot at a computer > before they recycled it: > >[specs etc.] Actually, as far as I know, only Pentium 1 machines slower than 200MHz are being recycled immediately. Everything higher than that goes to some use (if the computer works). At the very least, most of the parts would be reused. NICs, video cards, hard drives, RAM etc. are rarely thrown away. SCSI drives are definitely kept. I work (more or less) at FreeGeek now and I'll ask about this. I'll ping the people in receiving. Best, Kyle From plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com Wed Feb 25 10:02:01 2004 From: plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com (plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com) Date: Wed Feb 25 10:02:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> Message-ID: <20040225175348.GB22677@merlot.com> Alex Chally (alexchally at earthlink.net) typed this ... > On Feb 24, 2004, at 10:09 PM, Daniel Logghe wrote: > > > > >As for ftp, don't. Unless you have a really pressing need to use ftp > > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have > ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. Use DAV instead of FTP. If you have to run Windows you can set up a 'Web Folder' and drag and drop files. If you use KDE you can use ssh tinulling via the fish: scheme, if you can't get davfs working so you can simply mount DAV 'shares'. --Kurt -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Merlot Research Group, Inc http://www.merlot.com kls[at]merlot.com GPG key 82505A74 Jabber: MerlotQA From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Feb 25 10:17:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed Feb 25 10:17:02 2004 Subject: WebDAV options (was: [PLUG] linux web server setup) In-Reply-To: <20040225175348.GB22677@merlot.com> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> <20040225175348.GB22677@merlot.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 plug.9.faster at spamgourmet.com wrote: > Use DAV instead of FTP. If you have to run Windows you can set up a > 'Web Folder' and drag and drop files. If you use KDE you can use ssh > tinulling via the fish: scheme, if you can't get davfs working so > you can simply mount DAV 'shares'. Actually, in newish versions KDE, konquerer knows how to handle webdav:// and webdavs:// URLs without assistance. MacOS X can do WebDAV very well, too. And then there's the WebDAV Linux filesystem (davfs), which allows you to mount a WebDAV directory as part of the local filesystem: http://sourceforge.net/projects/dav/ If you go the WebDAV route, then my suggestion is to disable http:// connections, and only allow https:// to the WebDAV tree. At that point, you can start to trust the passwords that appear on the wire. -- Paul Heinlein From chris at maybe.net Wed Feb 25 10:38:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Wed Feb 25 10:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] "OT": computer donation In-Reply-To: <200402250948.09363.kyle@silverbeach.net> References: <20040225155942.GF3326@maybe.net> <200402250948.09363.kyle@silverbeach.net> Message-ID: <20040225183759.GN3326@maybe.net> On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 09:48:09AM -0800, Kyle Hayes wrote: > On Wednesday 25 February 2004 07:59, Chris Jantzen wrote: > > Since, AFAIK, freegeek doesn't give out anything less than PII > > these days, I thought I'd give people here a shot at a computer > > before they recycled it: > > > >[specs etc.] > > Actually, as far as I know, only Pentium 1 machines slower than 200MHz > are being recycled immediately. Everything higher than that goes to > some use (if the computer works). At the very least, most of the > parts would be reused. NICs, video cards, hard drives, RAM etc. are > rarely thrown away. SCSI drives are definitely kept. > > I work (more or less) at FreeGeek now and I'll ask about this. I'll > ping the people in receiving. Okay. I'd still honestly, like to get it to someone from PLUG who has a need. I've got a few replies, and if freegeek can use it, I'll write them and get their response. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Wed Feb 25 11:14:01 2004 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Wed Feb 25 11:14:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] I don't have a USB floppy, really... Message-ID: <20040225191311.GA13683@dalsemi.com> I bought a USB enclosure for a used laptop hard drive that I have, and the thing works great! However, when I read through /var/log/messages I found this: Feb 25 09:30:50 redwall kernel: hub.c: new USB device 00:1d.7-1, assigned address 2 Feb 25 09:30:50 redwall kernel: usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0xdb3/0x621b) is not claimed by any active driver. Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: Initializing USB Mass Storage driver... Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: scsi0 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: Vendor: TEKRAM Model: TR-621 2.5*0000 Rev: Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: USB Mass Storage support registered. Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: Attached scsi disk sda at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: SCSI device sda: 8452081 512-byte hdwr sectors (4327 MB) Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: sda: sda1 Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: inserting floppy driver for 2.4.22-1.2140.nptl Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall kernel: floppy0: no floppy controllers found Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall insmod: /lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2140.nptl/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.o: init_module: No such device Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall insmod: Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including invalid IO or IRQ parameters. You may find more information in syslog or the output from dmesg Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall insmod: /lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2140.nptl/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.o: insmod block-major-2 failed Feb 25 09:31:00 redwall devlabel: devlabel service started/restarted I also see this during startup and shutdown. The laptop doesn't have a floppy drive, and there's nothing /etc/modules.conf. Any idea where this is coming from and how to turn if off? Thanks, Colin From fixin at peak.org Wed Feb 25 11:38:02 2004 From: fixin at peak.org (Eric House) Date: Wed Feb 25 11:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Script for DNS-registering Qwest DSL dynamic IP addr using Actiontec modem Message-ID: <20040225193659.GA28881@peak.org> I've been asking questions recently about setting up my Qwest DSL service, and figured I'd share what success I've had. I've written a script, run from cron, that grabs the IP address off the Actiontec modem and registers it with a dynamic DNS service. Thanks to this script I'm able to get into my home system when traveling in spite of the modem. In the hopes that this is useful... --Eric #!/bin/bash PREVADDR=/var/run/last-addr LOG=/var/run/update_myhost_org_log.txt IPUPDATE=/usr/sbin/ez-ipupdate SNARF=/usr/bin/snarf MODEM_ADDR=192.168.0.1 MODEM_PAGE=http://$MODEM_ADDR/status_real.html if [ ! -x $SNARF ]; then echo "snarf required"; exit 1; fi if [ ! -x $IPUPDATE ]; then echo "ez-ipupdate required"; exit 1; fi ADDR=$($SNARF $MODEM_PAGE - | grep 'sta_wanip.*VALUE' \ | sed -n 's/^.*VALUE=\"\(.*\)\".*$/\1/p') if [ -f $PREVADDR ]; then if [ $(cat $PREVADDR) == $ADDR ]; then echo -n "no need to update: " >> $LOG date >> $LOG exit 0; fi fi $IPUPDATE --address $ADDR --host myhost.org --user mylogin:noyb! \ --service-type zoneedit echo $ADDR > $PREVADDR -- ****************************************************************************** * From the desktop of: Eric House, fixin at peak.org * * Crosswords 4.0 for PalmOS is out!: * ****************************************************************************** From jjarvis at sharplabs.com Wed Feb 25 12:15:03 2004 From: jjarvis at sharplabs.com (Jarvis, John) Date: Wed Feb 25 12:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] "OT": computer donation Message-ID: Chris, I can certainly find a use for it, and come and fetch it, if no charitable-type organizations want it. Cheers, -John -----Original Message----- From: Chris Jantzen [mailto:chris at maybe.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 8:00 AM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG] "OT": computer donation Since, AFAIK, freegeek doesn't give out anything less than PII these days, I thought I'd give people here a shot at a computer before they recycled it: It's a dual PentiumPro 200 with 512K cache on a Providence mainboard (the best PPro's Intel made, short of the Baby Xeons ["PII Overdrive?" Whatever marketing called it]) It's got .... a hard drive. It's got .... RAM ... it's RAM is pretty obscure, and last I remember we filled it out reasonably well. Maybe as much as 384MB? It has onboard Ethernet and SE Ultrawide Dual SCSI I'll collect replies and after a "reasonable amount of time" give it to the "most worthy cause". If no one responds, it'll (sadly) go to freegeek where I suspect they'll trash it. Oh, and I can not drive it anywhere as I don't drive. I live close to Beaverton Transit Center. I might be cajoled into hauling it to another MAX station, though. -- chris kb7rnl =-> From ehem at m5p.com Wed Feb 25 12:42:01 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 25 12:42:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <20040225080402.18344.16309.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <200402252041.i1PKf9Wq052357@m5p.com> > From: Jeff Schwaber > On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 22:13, Alex Chally wrote: > > On Feb 24, 2004, at 10:09 PM, Daniel Logghe wrote: > > > As for ftp, don't. Unless you have a really pressing need to use ftp > > > there are better options. FTP is horribly insecure, it's also > > > generally slower than HTTP. Learn all about SSH and the things you can > > > do with it including scp and sftp. And for serving files to the > > > general public do it through Apache. > > I am working on the project with him, and we would really like to have > > ftp up and running, despite the problems with it. > > proftpd > > apt-get install proftpd > > http://www.proftpd.org/ proftpd might all the control you want, but it reintroduces the orignal problem in a bigger way. proftpd has a rather bad track record with respect to security holes. Though not even close to IE, I've seen too many alerts with proftpd. -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Feb 25 13:08:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed Feb 25 13:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <200402252041.i1PKf9Wq052357@m5p.com> References: <200402252041.i1PKf9Wq052357@m5p.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Elliott Mitchell wrote: > proftpd might all the control you want, but it reintroduces the orignal > problem in a bigger way. proftpd has a rather bad track record with > respect to security holes. Though not even close to IE, I've seen too many > alerts with proftpd. Something to consider is ncFTPd. The server software is not free ($99 for up to 50 simultaneous users), but he has the finest ftp client I've seen (I've used it for years). Support your open source developer! Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From griffint at pobox.com Wed Feb 25 13:14:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Wed Feb 25 13:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] I don't have a USB floppy, really... In-Reply-To: <20040225191311.GA13683@dalsemi.com> References: <20040225191311.GA13683@dalsemi.com> Message-ID: <200402251313.31304.griffint@pobox.com> On Wednesday 25 February 2004 11:13 am, Colin Kuskie wrote: > I bought a USB enclosure for a used laptop hard drive that I have, and > the thing works great! However, when I read through /var/log/messages > I found this: > > Feb 25 09:30:50 redwall kernel: hub.c: new USB device 00:1d.7-1, assigned > address 2 Feb 25 09:30:50 redwall kernel: usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod > 0xdb3/0x621b) is not claimed by any active driver. Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall > kernel: Initializing USB Mass Storage driver... Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall > kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall > kernel: scsi0 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices Feb 25 09:30:53 > redwall kernel: Vendor: TEKRAM Model: TR-621 2.5*0000 Rev: Feb 25 > 09:30:53 redwall kernel: Type: Direct-Access ANSI > SCSI revision: 02 Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: USB Mass Storage support > registered. Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: Attached scsi disk sda at > scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0 Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: SCSI device > sda: 8452081 512-byte hdwr sectors (4327 MB) Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall > kernel: sda: sda1 > Feb 25 09:30:53 redwall kernel: inserting floppy driver for > 2.4.22-1.2140.nptl Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall kernel: floppy0: no floppy > controllers found Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall insmod: > /lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2140.nptl/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.o: init_module: > No such device Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall insmod: Hint: insmod errors can be > caused by incorrect module parameters, including invalid IO or IRQ > parameters. You may find more information in syslog or the output > from dmesg Feb 25 09:30:56 redwall insmod: > /lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2140.nptl/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.o: insmod > block-major-2 failed Feb 25 09:31:00 redwall devlabel: devlabel service > started/restarted > > I also see this during startup and shutdown. > > The laptop doesn't have a floppy drive, and there's nothing > /etc/modules.conf. Any idea where this is coming from and how to turn > if off? > It's probably coming from inside the kernel, or maybe from the hotplug agent. In any case something is requesting a load of the floppy module. Then the floppy module complains because it can't find a floppy drive. Try putting this line in your /etc/modules.conf file: alias floppy off Then anything that requests a load of the floppy module will get nothing. Terry From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Feb 25 13:28:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed Feb 25 13:28:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: linux web server setup In-Reply-To: References: <200402252041.i1PKf9Wq052357@m5p.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Something to consider is ncFTPd. The server software is not free ($99 for > up to 50 simultaneous users), but he has the finest ftp client I've seen > (I've used it for years). Support your open source developer! Better yet -- and I had not seen this before -- is that you can install, run and use the system legitimately for no cost if you have 3 or fewer simultaneous users. It is enabled automatically when you run with max-users=3 or less. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From ehem at m5p.com Wed Feb 25 13:29:02 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 25 13:29:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <20040225144134.614.43050.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <200402252127.i1PLRowt052844@m5p.com> > From: Keith Lofstrom > 2) Do not share the cable connection for two CDR drives. Use a > separate IDE socket and cable for each drive. cdrecord runs > a LOT slower (10X) if it is talking to two drives over one cable. This is surprising. Figure 1x CD is 150KB/s, 52x is less than 8MB/s. Even four CD writers should be possible for a single ATA33 channel. This could well be a kernel weakness or a cdrecord weakness, you're highly unlikely to strain the capacity of the channel (though IDE is known for limitations with multiple drives). Note that there is no point in going for good cabling for CD drives, as two drives (the IDE limit) can't even come close to saturating a channel (though DVD burners may change this). Looking at the ENU web pages, better than 75% of the drives were listed as ATA33, and only 2 drives mentioned being able to handle ATA66. > BTW, two 52X CDR drives seem to work just about as fast as a single > drive, on a 1.8GB P4 / ATA133 / Rambus machine. I wonder how many > drives and IDE controllers one could stuff in a Linux box before it > started slowing down? Writing? Sure, maintaining 8MB/s reading, 16MB/s writing is darn near trivial (and note these speeds are only when writing the outer edge). As Rob mentioned, PCI bandwidth is going to be a big issue. Most on motherboard IDE controllers never hit the main PCI bus. So if you're doing mass duplication, I could see running 17 drives at once. Connect one drive to the spare motherboard channel, then hang 16 drives off the main PCI bus. Figure that the 8MB/s is only the maximum drives will do though. Stagger when drives start writing and you'll be able to get more drives. More than 22 drives should be possible on a standard motherboard. -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 25 13:39:01 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 25 13:39:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <200402252127.i1PLRowt052844@m5p.com> References: <200402252127.i1PLRowt052844@m5p.com> Message-ID: <1077745107.7242.56.camel@dell.linux.box> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 13:27, Elliott Mitchell wrote: > Rob mentioned, PCI bandwidth is going to be a big issue. Most on > motherboard IDE controllers never hit the main PCI bus. So if you're > doing mass duplication, I could see running 17 drives at once. Connect > one drive to the spare motherboard channel, then hang 16 drives off the > main PCI bus. Figure that the 8MB/s is only the maximum drives will do > though. Stagger when drives start writing and you'll be able to get more > drives. More than 22 drives should be possible on a standard motherboard. You're going to saturate your source, though... unless it's all cached in RAM or something. I thought onboard IDE controllers were hitting the PCI bus. Although, there was a change in the way southbridge controllers worked a few years ago with all this 'HyperTransport' garbage. Perhaps that's when these things were pulled off the PCI bus. I wouldn't trust it to always not hit the PCI bus, however... Rob From jeme at brelin.net Wed Feb 25 14:57:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Wed Feb 25 14:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis+spamassassin Message-ID: OK... here's the deal. I've got amavis (amavisd-new) calling spamassassin (while amavis itself is called by postfix). amavis is catching and holding some spam in /var/lib/amavis/virusmails (along with the virus stuff flagged by clamav). And the spam messages in there are clearly marked as spam with the regular spamassassin headers (X-Spam-Status: etc.). The weird bit is that when the message PASSES, there are no spam headers at all. I think amavis is stripping them out before passing the message back to postfix. I need them headers! I want to find out WHY so much spam is still getting through to see which weights need adjusting. Any ideas? Oh... and I really want to see if bayesian filtering is actually working on this installation... is there a way to know for sure? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From chris at maybe.net Wed Feb 25 15:03:02 2004 From: chris at maybe.net (Chris Jantzen) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:03:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis+spamassassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040225230234.GR3326@maybe.net> On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 02:56:25PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > Oh... and I really want to see if bayesian filtering is actually working > on this installation... is there a way to know for sure? If you get the headers, spamassassin lists bayes results. BTW-I wouldn't change the weights. I'd play with the threshold. Also, see here: http://www.merchantsoverseas.com/wwwroot/gorilla/sa_rules.htm for some really, really effective add-on rules. -- chris kb7rnl =-> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jeme at brelin.net Wed Feb 25 15:12:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:12:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis+spamassassin In-Reply-To: <20040225230234.GR3326@maybe.net> References: <20040225230234.GR3326@maybe.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Chris Jantzen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 02:56:25PM -0800, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > Oh... and I really want to see if bayesian filtering is actually working > > on this installation... is there a way to know for sure? > > If you get the headers, spamassassin lists bayes results. OK... I'm getting none (in the caught messages, for which I DO have headers). Weird. > BTW-I wouldn't change the weights. I'd play with the threshold. Oh, there are some crazy weights... the default installation I have here (from an older version distributed in Woody) has an IN_REP_TO check that weighs down -4.431 just for having an In-Reply-To header. That's probably 90% of the spam that still gets through (with a threshold of 5). > Also, see here: > > http://www.merchantsoverseas.com/wwwroot/gorilla/sa_rules.htm > > for some really, really effective add-on rules. I'll look, thanks. However... I still don't know why amavis is stripping the X-Spam headers and now I don't know why bayesian filterings not doing anything. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From cmize at goiter.com Wed Feb 25 15:23:01 2004 From: cmize at goiter.com (Chuck Mize) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:23:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis+spamassassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077751315.2756.19.camel@simba.goiter.com> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 14:56, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > OK... here's the deal. > > I've got amavis (amavisd-new) calling spamassassin (while amavis itself is > called by postfix). > > amavis is catching and holding some spam in /var/lib/amavis/virusmails > (along with the virus stuff flagged by clamav). And the spam messages in > there are clearly marked as spam with the regular spamassassin headers > (X-Spam-Status: etc.). > > The weird bit is that when the message PASSES, there are no spam headers > at all. I think amavis is stripping them out before passing the message > back to postfix. > > I need them headers! I want to find out WHY so much spam is still getting > through to see which weights need adjusting. In your /etc/amavisd.conf file what do you have for the $sa_tag_level_deflt setting? I had to set mine to -999 to get it to add the spamassassin headers to mail not caught as spam. From jeme at brelin.net Wed Feb 25 15:33:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis+spamassassin In-Reply-To: <1077751315.2756.19.camel@simba.goiter.com> References: <1077751315.2756.19.camel@simba.goiter.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Chuck Mize wrote: > In your /etc/amavisd.conf file what do you have for the > $sa_tag_level_deflt setting? I had to set mine to -999 to get it to add > the spamassassin headers to mail not caught as spam. Chuck Mize, you're my hero. A beverage on me.... but I reserve the right to refuse if I'm dead poor (which is frequent -- but the refusal is void if I have a non-free beverage myself and you can punch me in the stomach if I've ordered myself food and claim I can't buy you one). J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From zot at whiteknighthackers.com Wed Feb 25 15:42:02 2004 From: zot at whiteknighthackers.com (Zot O'Connor) Date: Wed Feb 25 15:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] amavis+spamassassin In-Reply-To: References: <1077751315.2756.19.camel@simba.goiter.com> Message-ID: <1077752503.8948.118.camel@kat.zotnet.com> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 15:32, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Chuck Mize wrote: > Chuck Mize, you're my hero. > > A beverage on me.... but I reserve the right to refuse if I'm dead poor > (which is frequent -- but the refusal is void if I have a non-free > beverage myself and you can punch me in the stomach if I've ordered myself > food and claim I can't buy you one). > Is this transferable? I sense Chuck going to E-Bay real fast..... > J. -- Zot O'Connor http://www.ZotConsulting.com http://www.WhiteKnightHackers.com From ehem at m5p.com Wed Feb 25 16:27:01 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Wed Feb 25 16:27:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Re: CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <20040225233302.28992.6887.Mailman@drizzle.pdxlinux.org> Message-ID: <200402260026.i1Q0QCbo054938@m5p.com> > From: AthlonRob > On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 13:27, Elliott Mitchell wrote: > > > Rob mentioned, PCI bandwidth is going to be a big issue. Most on > > motherboard IDE controllers never hit the main PCI bus. So if you're > > doing mass duplication, I could see running 17 drives at once. Connect > > one drive to the spare motherboard channel, then hang 16 drives off the > > main PCI bus. Figure that the 8MB/s is only the maximum drives will do > > though. Stagger when drives start writing and you'll be able to get more > > drives. More than 22 drives should be possible on a standard motherboard. > > You're going to saturate your source, though... unless it's all cached > in RAM or something. Yes. If you can afford 22+ CD-writers how much memory can you afford (I figure 1GB isn't a lot nowadays)? Also if you're writing to 22+ drives at once, likely you aren't writing different images to each of them so after the first copy it will be in memory, and most hard drives could likely handle reading 3 images at once. > I thought onboard IDE controllers were hitting the PCI bus. Although, > there was a change in the way southbridge controllers worked a few years > ago with all this 'HyperTransport' garbage. Perhaps that's when these > things were pulled off the PCI bus. I wouldn't trust it to always not > hit the PCI bus, however... Read the specifications, this is the case. A single ATA133 can in theory completely saturate 32-bit/33MHz PCI by itself, once you've got dual channels (like all modern motherboards) you're dead. The change is that few northbridge-southbridge pairs use PCI between them anymore; VIA has some proprietary bus that looks like PCI to software, but actually does 533MB/s; both nVidia and ALi are using HyperTransport between north and south bridges. Interestingly ALi has a license for the P4 bus, but they're still using HT (meaning with their northbridge you could hook up nVidia's southbridge to a P4). The use of HT, and removing the memory controller from the northbridge makes it interesting because you could in theory hook two HT northbridges together in series, and have two AGP slots. Anyway, back to the main issue. Though the IDE controllers are still on the southbridge, and might appear to logically be on the main PCI bus they aren't in reality. They're hooked to whatever bus is used, and that will be significantly more than 133MB/s (and likely not interfering with the main peripheral bus). -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Wed Feb 25 17:38:01 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:38:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <1077723649.7242.17.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> <1077723649.7242.17.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1077759536.20065.4.camel@timmy> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 07:40, AthlonRob wrote: > I think the faster (consumer-grade) hard drives out > there are able to sustain around 30MB/sec read speeds. Does hdparm -t count as sustained? # hdparm -t /dev/hdb /dev/hdb: Timing buffered disk reads: 154 MB in 3.00 seconds = 51.30 MB/sec The read rate is around 55MB/sec if i don't have the partitions mounted. Just curious, Evan From AthlonRob at axpr.net Wed Feb 25 17:45:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:45:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <1077759536.20065.4.camel@timmy> References: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> <1077723649.7242.17.camel@dell.linux.box> <1077759536.20065.4.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <1077759845.7242.65.camel@dell.linux.box> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 17:38, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 07:40, AthlonRob wrote: > > I think the faster (consumer-grade) hard drives out > > there are able to sustain around 30MB/sec read speeds. > > Does hdparm -t count as sustained? > > # hdparm -t /dev/hdb > > /dev/hdb: > Timing buffered disk reads: 154 MB in 3.00 seconds = 51.30 MB/sec > > The read rate is around 55MB/sec if i don't have the partitions mounted. No, I don't think so... I really don't know why, though. Try copying a few gigs of /dev/zero onto the disk and see how fast it goes. Real-life benchmarks are what really counts... maybe copy an ISO from one disk to another. Rob From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Wed Feb 25 17:54:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Wed Feb 25 17:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <1077759845.7242.65.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> <1077723649.7242.17.camel@dell.linux.box> <1077759536.20065.4.camel@timmy> <1077759845.7242.65.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <12161-73064@sneakemail.com> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, AthlonRob AthlonRob-at-axpr.net |PDX Linux| wrote: > I really don't know why, though. > > Try copying a few gigs of /dev/zero onto the disk and see how fast it > goes. Real-life benchmarks are what really counts... maybe copy an ISO > from one disk to another. Or see what tiobench or Bonnie++ say. http://sourceforge.net/projects/tiobench/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/bonnie/ -- Steve From plug201 at jblack.org Thu Feb 26 09:27:02 2004 From: plug201 at jblack.org (J Black) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077816279.3003.79.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 21:02, Aaron Burt wrote: > Another reason: "Message Preview" view, which lists messages with a > snippet of the beginning of the message below the subject. I've had > Outbreak users complain to me that my reponses had their quoted text > in the Preview instead of my response, because it's at the top. Aaron has hit the nail on the head here. I've seen people working with message preview mode; you've got to state your business in the first line of your message or your message doesn't get read. Also, top posting is far easier to work with if you have a preview pane open. I use Evolution with the preview pane. I click on a message in the message list; the message appears in the preview pane. The writer of the message has 2-3 seconds to interest me in the reading the message, so they better get to the point in the first few lines. If it's not interesting, one click on down arrow key and it's on to the next message. If their grand prose is posted down so far it doesn't appear in the preview pane, their message doesn't stand a chance. - Jesse From beattie at beattie-home.net Thu Feb 26 09:49:02 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <1077816279.3003.79.camel@localhost> References: <1077816279.3003.79.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1077817701.811.13.camel@kokopelli> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 12:24, J Black wrote: > On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 21:02, Aaron Burt wrote: > > > Another reason: "Message Preview" view, ... > Aaron has hit the nail on the head here. I've seen people working with > message preview mode; you've got to state your business in the first > line of your message or your message doesn't get read. > > Also, top posting is far easier to work with if you have a preview pane > open. I use Evolution with the preview pane. I click on a message in > the message list; the message appears in the preview pane. The writer > of the message has 2-3 seconds to interest me in the reading the > message, so they better get to the point in the first few lines. I use Evolution, with the preview pane, in fact I read all my email in the preview pane, it does have a scroll bar. The thing about quoting, is if the message is more than a few lines, you should trim it so people know what you are responding to, and done't have to scroll down 6 pages to find your message. Expecting them to read the whole message is silly, so quoting the whole message is almost always a waste of disk space, though I'm sure your hardware vendor does not mind. On the other hand if you are too lazy to trim the quoted material you really do have to top post, or nobody will every find your comments. -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mike at linuxlink.com Thu Feb 26 09:49:22 2004 From: mike at linuxlink.com (Michael H. Collins) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:49:22 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <1077816279.3003.79.camel@localhost> References: <1077816279.3003.79.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <403E30CF.8070001@linuxlink.com> I don't use M$ anything, but I top post for the same reason. And I hate bottom posting for the same reason. I like a top post line that gets me then inline answers. J Black wrote: >On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 21:02, Aaron Burt wrote: > > > >>Another reason: "Message Preview" view, which lists messages with a >>snippet of the beginning of the message below the subject. I've had >>Outbreak users complain to me that my reponses had their quoted text >>in the Preview instead of my response, because it's at the top. >> >> > >Aaron has hit the nail on the head here. I've seen people working with >message preview mode; you've got to state your business in the first >line of your message or your message doesn't get read. > >Also, top posting is far easier to work with if you have a preview pane >open. I use Evolution with the preview pane. I click on a message in >the message list; the message appears in the preview pane. The writer >of the message has 2-3 seconds to interest me in the reading the >message, so they better get to the point in the first few lines. If >it's not interesting, one click on down arrow key and it's on to the >next message. If their grand prose is posted down so far it doesn't >appear in the preview pane, their message doesn't stand a chance. > >- Jesse > > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > M. H. Collins Admiral, Penguinista Navy. From ckuskie at dalsemi.com Thu Feb 26 10:44:02 2004 From: ckuskie at dalsemi.com (Colin Kuskie) Date: Thu Feb 26 10:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] I don't have a USB floppy, really... In-Reply-To: <200402251313.31304.griffint@pobox.com> References: <20040225191311.GA13683@dalsemi.com> <200402251313.31304.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040226184325.GA548@dalsemi.com> On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 01:13:30PM -0800, Terry Griffin wrote: > > It's probably coming from inside the kernel, or maybe from the hotplug agent. > In any case something is requesting a load of the floppy module. Then the > floppy module complains because it can't find a floppy drive. > > Try putting this line in your /etc/modules.conf file: > > alias floppy off > > Then anything that requests a load of the floppy module will get nothing. This is my fault for using a cute subject line. I actually do have a USB floppy, but it isn't plugged in while I'm getting those error messages during startup, shutdown or when plugging in another USB peripheral. So if I forbid it from working I won't be able to use the floppy when I need it. I think the problem may have to do with the /etc/updfstab.conf file and system. Colin From beattie at beattie-home.net Thu Feb 26 11:11:01 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Thu Feb 26 11:11:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <403E30CF.8070001@linuxlink.com> References: <1077816279.3003.79.camel@localhost> <403E30CF.8070001@linuxlink.com> Message-ID: <1077822658.815.16.camel@kokopelli> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 12:45, Michael H. Collins wrote: > I don't use M$ anything, but I top post for the same reason. And I hate > bottom posting for the same reason. I like a top post line that gets me > then inline answers. Then you include the entire message, so I don't know exactly what reason that is, unless I read the whole message. If I cared enough I might do that. > > > J Black wrote: > > >On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 21:02, Aaron Burt wrote: > > > > > > > >>Another reason: "Message Preview" view, which lists messages with a > >>snippet of the beginning of the message below the subject. I've had > >>Outbreak users complain to me that my reponses had their quoted text > >>in the Preview instead of my response, because it's at the top. > >> > >> > > > >Aaron has hit the nail on the head here. I've seen people working with > >message preview mode; you've got to state your business in the first > >line of your message or your message doesn't get read. > > > >Also, top posting is far easier to work with if you have a preview pane > >open. I use Evolution with the preview pane. I click on a message in > >the message list; the message appears in the preview pane. The writer > >of the message has 2-3 seconds to interest me in the reading the > >message, so they better get to the point in the first few lines. If > >it's not interesting, one click on down arrow key and it's on to the > >next message. If their grand prose is posted down so far it doesn't > >appear in the preview pane, their message doesn't stand a chance. > > > >- Jesse > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PLUG mailing list > >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > > > > > > M. H. Collins > Admiral, Penguinista Navy. > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From drl at drloree.com Thu Feb 26 12:27:02 2004 From: drl at drloree.com (Derek Loree) Date: Thu Feb 26 12:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] linux web server setup In-Reply-To: <1077724264.7240.25.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <20040222143404.GN28881@peak.org> <1077464219.12705.3.camel@apollo.spears.org> <20040222190752.GF18219@maybe.net> <24D280AA-66FD-11D8-BA54-000A95CCE094@comcast.net> <403C3C00.6030208@frenetic.com> <1077724264.7240.25.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1077827462.1745.7.camel@fastlinux.homenet> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 07:51, AthlonRob wrote: [snip] > > Really, though, look in to what ssh provides you. Make sure you disable > telnet if you haven't already. Start using ssh. It'll provide you with > scp access... if the users are running linux at home, they can scp files > as easily as cp'ing them. Otherwise, they can grab scp.exe from the > Putty download page and still scp files as easily as copying them. > > It's secure, it's safe, it's faster.... > > My two cents... :-) Don't forget about WinSCP, for those users that have to have a GUI to do anything. My two cents... :-) Derek Loree From ehem at m5p.com Thu Feb 26 15:25:02 2004 From: ehem at m5p.com (Elliott Mitchell) Date: Thu Feb 26 15:25:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Wonders of Software Patents Message-ID: <200402262324.i1QNO1Wq073083@m5p.com> Yet another one coming in. At least prior art is not subjective unlike non-trivial and non-obvious: http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/1077781268.html -- (\___(\___(\______ --=> 8-) EHM <=-- ______/)___/)___/) \ ( | EHeM at gremlin.m5p.com PGP 8881EF59 | ) / \_ \ | _____ -O #include O- _____ | / _/ \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/ From 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com Thu Feb 26 15:50:02 2004 From: 1s7k8uhcd001 at sneakemail.com (Steve Bonds) Date: Thu Feb 26 15:50:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] E-mail etiquette: why MS users don't have it In-Reply-To: <1077696146.8948.30.camel@kat.zotnet.com> References: <1077532501.13724.53.camel@kat.zotnet.com> <1077696146.8948.30.camel@kat.zotnet.com> Message-ID: <8347-14743@sneakemail.com> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Zot O'Connor zot-at-whiteknighthackers.com |PDX Linux| wrote: > That sounds right. Do you remember the setting? It is what he is > describing. To immediately revert a single message back to its original form, click on the yellow "i" bar just above the From: line that says something like "This message has had extra line breaks removed. To restore, click here". To make the setting permanent for all new messages that come in, use: Tools -> Options -> Preferences -> E-Mail Options uncheck the box labelled "remove extra line breaks in plain text messages". Keep in mind that all the previously received messages will continue to be mangled, but new ones should look OK. -- Steve From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Thu Feb 26 16:48:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Thu Feb 26 16:48:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Wonders of Software Patents In-Reply-To: <200402262324.i1QNO1Wq073083@m5p.com> References: <200402262324.i1QNO1Wq073083@m5p.com> Message-ID: <1077813959.1747.6.camel@timmy> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 15:24, Elliott Mitchell wrote: > Yet another one coming in. At least prior art is not subjective unlike > non-trivial and non-obvious: > > http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/1077781268.html > That's ridiculous! Windows XP can only do desktop paging through a third-party tool or a "power tool" supplied by Microsoft. But *every* window manager I have ever used in Linux includes a desktop pager. Argh! Evan From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Thu Feb 26 17:34:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Thu Feb 26 17:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDR speedup - observations In-Reply-To: <12161-73064@sneakemail.com> References: <20040225094718.GA4335@gate.kl-ic.com> <1077723649.7242.17.camel@dell.linux.box> <1077759536.20065.4.camel@timmy> <1077759845.7242.65.camel@dell.linux.box> <12161-73064@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1077816740.1747.10.camel@timmy> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 17:53, Steve Bonds wrote: > see what tiobench or Bonnie++ say. Now 30MB/s seems fast! With tiobench, sequential reads peak at 22MB/s and average about 15. Random reads are around 500KB/s (ick!) and the writes are similar. I was using the machine at the time, so the numbers are low, but I don't know by how much. Evan From gmickels at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 18:38:02 2004 From: gmickels at yahoo.com (Garrett Mickelson) Date: Thu Feb 26 18:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Wonders of Software Patents In-Reply-To: <1077813959.1747.6.camel@timmy> References: <200402262324.i1QNO1Wq073083@m5p.com> <1077813959.1747.6.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <1077849475.6030.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Oh, but let us not forget that they are most likely planning ahead. I'm sure Longhorn will include a few ideas pulled from the various Linux Desktop Environments and apps. Virtual Desktops, Pop-up blocker, tabbed browsing, etc. -- Garrett Mickelson gmickles at yahoo.com "Microsoft, your potential (to make money), our passion (to extort it)" On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 08:46, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 15:24, Elliott Mitchell wrote: > > Yet another one coming in. At least prior art is not subjective > unlike > > non-trivial and non-obvious: > > > > http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/1077781268.html > > > > That's ridiculous! Windows XP can only do desktop paging through a > third-party tool or a "power tool" supplied by Microsoft. But *every* > window manager I have ever used in Linux includes a desktop pager. > Argh! > > > > Evan > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From baloo at ursine.ca Thu Feb 26 21:56:02 2004 From: baloo at ursine.ca (Paul Johnson) Date: Thu Feb 26 21:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] The Wonders of Software Patents In-Reply-To: <1077849475.6030.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200402262324.i1QNO1Wq073083@m5p.com> <1077813959.1747.6.camel@timmy> <1077849475.6030.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040227055534.GC2172@ursine.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 06:37:55PM -0800, Garrett Mickelson wrote: > Oh, but let us not forget that they are most likely planning ahead. I'm > sure Longhorn will include a few ideas pulled from the various Linux > Desktop Environments and apps. Virtual Desktops, Pop-up blocker, tabbed > browsing, etc. Well, fortunately, Microsoft thinks the design they're working on now will still be competitive 16 months from now, I'd be surprised if the next version of Windows offers anything more than drool-proofing to the point where it insults an idiot's intelligence and another $300 price tag. Long live the king, the king is dead. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson : :' : http://ursine.ca/ `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian. Because it *must* work. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAPtvWUzgNqloQMwcRAimYAJ9I6PAxjryW/Ay2p/negsvj7KQoHACdEExh bWRw6t4HYfzVs3DefNnVdXQ= =TCGc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From metallurgy88 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 22:15:03 2004 From: metallurgy88 at yahoo.com (Travel Specilist A) Date: Thu Feb 26 22:15:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MySQL update on RH9 In-Reply-To: <20040216062528.GA20971@maybe.net> Message-ID: <20040227061433.36849.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, all: I am installing the RH9 now. As it uses MySQL 3.25.??, I am going to update MySQL into 4.0.25. According to RH document, perl and php all dynamicly link to the MySQL 3.25 lib. So I have to install mysql-4.0.15-compact.rpm too, which installs both 3.25 and 4.0 libs in there for not breaking the php, perl and etc, links. My question is how can I link php or perl to the new libs (MySQL 4.0)? I hear that the reason that RH uses dynamic link is to save space, does anyone know that which Linux is easy to update? Thanks. Mike --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Thu Feb 26 22:24:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Thu Feb 26 22:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MySQL update on RH9 In-Reply-To: <20040227061433.36849.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040227061433.36849.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1077834107.1795.15.camel@timmy> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 22:14, Travel Specilist A wrote: > does anyone know that which Linux is easy to update? Gentoo! It sounds scary, but it's really not. (I don't want to start a distro war) Evan P.S. Please don't reply to an existing message. To those of us using threaded mailreaders, your message is buried in a 10-day old thread on LD_LIBRARY_PATH. From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 27 06:14:01 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 27 06:14:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers Message-ID: I have a client that has an IMAP server running on an NT box. They want to migrate to Linux so I've setup an IMAP server on Linux. They'd like mail to be delivered to both servers for the time being so users can get used to checking email on the Linux server, but still feel confident that their mail is working. Any ideas how to do this? Fetchmail on the Linux box pulling from the NT box maybe? Is there some other way to magically deliver mail to both boxes simultaneously? Thanks, ~M From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 27 07:49:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 27 07:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > They'd like mail to be delivered to both servers for the time being so > users can get used to checking email on the Linux server, but still feel > confident that their mail is working. Matt, I'm not a SysAdmin so I probably don't understand the problem. Why should the users even know on what machine or OS the mail server is running? If it's a matter of becoming used to a new MUA, then that's separate from the MTA behind it. If they are using winduhs MUA offering, cannot that get mail from the linux box directly? Puzzled, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 27 07:59:01 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 27 07:59:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > They'd like mail to be delivered to both servers for the time being so > > users can get used to checking email on the Linux server, but still feel > > confident that their mail is working. > > Matt, > > I'm not a SysAdmin so I probably don't understand the problem. Why should > the users even know on what machine or OS the mail server is running? If > it's a matter of becoming used to a new MUA, then that's separate from the > MTA behind it. If they are using winduhs MUA offering, cannot that get mail > from the linux box directly? In Outlook the users will have two IMAP servers configured. One for the NT server and one for the Linux server. The owner of the company wants mail delivered to both servers so users will see the same messages in each IMAP setup. This is just a temporary configuration so the owner and the users can feel confident that the Linux IMAP server is functioning exactly like the NT IMAP server. We'll then let it run like this for a couple weeks and then delete the Outlook configuration for the NT IMAP server and use only the Linux IMAP server. ~M From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 27 08:22:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 27 08:22:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > In Outlook the users will have two IMAP servers configured. One for the > NT server and one for the Linux server. The owner of the company wants > mail delivered to both servers so users will see the same messages in each > IMAP setup. This is just a temporary configuration so the owner and the > users can feel confident that the Linux IMAP server is functioning exactly > like the NT IMAP server. We'll then let it run like this for a couple > weeks and then delete the Outlook configuration for the NT IMAP server and > use only the Linux IMAP server. Matt, Oh. Wow. I would think that a few test messages sent to the owner and employees via the linux server would demonstrate that the back end makes no difference. But, I guess you're dealing with other issues there and this is only a manifestation of them. Looks like the kind of non-rational attitudes with which I have to deal when I step through the looking glass into RegulatoryLand. Good luck! Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From beattie at beattie-home.net Fri Feb 27 08:32:01 2004 From: beattie at beattie-home.net (Brian Beattie) Date: Fri Feb 27 08:32:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077899505.876.3.camel@kokopelli> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 11:20, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > In Outlook the users will have two IMAP servers configured. One for the > > NT server and one for the Linux server. The owner of the company wants > > mail delivered to both servers so users will see the same messages in each > > IMAP setup. This is just a temporary configuration so the owner and the > > users can feel confident that the Linux IMAP server is functioning exactly > > like the NT IMAP server. We'll then let it run like this for a couple > > weeks and then delete the Outlook configuration for the NT IMAP server and > > use only the Linux IMAP server. > > Matt, > > Oh. Wow. I would think that a few test messages sent to the owner and > employees via the linux server would demonstrate that the back end makes no > difference. But, I guess you're dealing with other issues there and this is > only a manifestation of them. > > Looks like the kind of non-rational attitudes with which I have to deal > when I step through the looking glass into RegulatoryLand. If I had a nickle for every time "it should just work" and it didn't I'd have a couple of bucks. When dealing with a situation where errors might go undetected and such an error could have grave consequences (a important email lost with no indication) I think it is prudent to use this kind of double checking. > > Good luck! > > Rich -- Brian Beattie | Experienced kernel hacker/embedded systems beattie at beattie-home.net | programmer, direct or contract, short or www.beattie-home.net | long term, available immediately. "Honor isn't about making the right choices. It's about dealing with the consequences." -- Midori Koto -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ed at alcpress.com Fri Feb 27 09:01:01 2004 From: ed at alcpress.com (ed) Date: Fri Feb 27 09:01:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: <1077899505.876.3.camel@kokopelli> References: <1077899505.876.3.camel@kokopelli> Message-ID: <403F05F1.9020001@alcpress.com> Brian Beattie wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 11:20, Rich Shepard wrote: > >>On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: >> >> >>>In Outlook the users will have two IMAP servers configured. One for the >>>NT server and one for the Linux server. The owner of the company wants >>>mail delivered to both servers so users will see the same messages in each >>>IMAP setup. This is just a temporary configuration so the owner and the >>>users can feel confident that the Linux IMAP server is functioning exactly >>>like the NT IMAP server. We'll then let it run like this for a couple >>>weeks and then delete the Outlook configuration for the NT IMAP server and >>>use only the Linux IMAP server. >> >>Matt, >> >> Oh. Wow. I would think that a few test messages sent to the owner and >>employees via the linux server would demonstrate that the back end makes no >>difference. But, I guess you're dealing with other issues there and this is >>only a manifestation of them. >> >> Looks like the kind of non-rational attitudes with which I have to deal >>when I step through the looking glass into RegulatoryLand. > > > If I had a nickle for every time "it should just work" and it didn't I'd > have a couple of bucks. When dealing with a situation where errors > might go undetected and such an error could have grave consequences (a > important email lost with no indication) I think it is prudent to use > this kind of double checking. > > There's no way I know of to get SMTP to do this even with DNS tricks. The obvious solution is for the receiving MTA to send a copy of incoming messages to the other MTA but this proves nothing. If one of the MTAs misbehaves, how do you interpret the results? Which MTA "failed"? I think the suggestion that Rich made about switching to Linux and sending test messages is a better one. However, instead of sending a few messages, a program can be written (that runs at another site) that sends numerous messages to all the users in the company - some with attachments, some with multiple recipients, etc. The results would be more meaningful, the experiment better controlled, and the results less open to interpretation. You could repeat the test with the NT server if the owner of the company needs a comparison. If messages are so important that grave consequences result from one of the being missed, something other than e-mail should be used to communicate the information. Ed From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 27 09:35:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 27 09:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: <403F05F1.9020001@alcpress.com> References: <1077899505.876.3.camel@kokopelli> <403F05F1.9020001@alcpress.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, ed wrote: > I think the suggestion that Rich made about switching to Linux and sending > test messages is a better one. Thank you, Ed. Flattery will get you everywhere. :-) > However, instead of sending a few messages, a program can be written (that > runs at another site) that sends numerous messages to all the users in the > company - some with attachments, some with multiple recipients, etc. The > results would be more meaningful, the experiment better controlled, and > the results less open to interpretation. You could repeat the test with > the NT server if the owner of the company needs a comparison. Oooh! Spam and viruses!! Leave the server on the 'Net unprotected for a couple of hours and you'll get your flood of test messages. :-) > If messages are so important that grave consequences result from one of > the being missed, something other than e-mail should be used to > communicate the information. Er, a lawyer? Rich (hey! It's Friday.) -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 27 09:51:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 27 09:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > I have a client that has an IMAP server running on an NT box. They > want to migrate to Linux so I've setup an IMAP server on Linux. > They'd like mail to be delivered to both servers for the time being > so users can get used to checking email on the Linux server, but > still feel confident that their mail is working. > > Any ideas how to do this? Fetchmail on the Linux box pulling from > the NT box maybe? Is there some other way to magically deliver mail > to both boxes simultaneously? The method you use will depend to a large extent on what MTA is receiving inbound mail: Sendmail? Postfix? MS Exchange? -- Paul Heinlein From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 27 09:53:01 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 27 09:53:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > I have a client that has an IMAP server running on an NT box. They > > want to migrate to Linux so I've setup an IMAP server on Linux. > > They'd like mail to be delivered to both servers for the time being > > so users can get used to checking email on the Linux server, but > > still feel confident that their mail is working. > > > > Any ideas how to do this? Fetchmail on the Linux box pulling from > > the NT box maybe? Is there some other way to magically deliver mail > > to both boxes simultaneously? > > The method you use will depend to a large extent on what MTA is > receiving inbound mail: Sendmail? Postfix? MS Exchange? Postfix From lemming at quirkyqatz.com Fri Feb 27 09:58:02 2004 From: lemming at quirkyqatz.com (Mark Morgan) Date: Fri Feb 27 09:58:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] MySQL update on RH9 In-Reply-To: <1077834107.1795.15.camel@timmy> References: <20040227061433.36849.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <1077834107.1795.15.camel@timmy> Message-ID: <56545.134.134.136.1.1077904634.squirrel@webmail2.pair.com> Evan Heidtmann said: > On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 22:14, Travel Specilist A wrote: >> does anyone know that which Linux is easy to update? > > Gentoo! It sounds scary, but it's really not. http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20040209-newsletter.xml There's a brief user story of why he had his department switched over to Gentoo. emerge was part of the reason. From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 27 10:04:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Postfix Hmm. I should have asked the larger question: After mail is received by Postfix, what happens? Is it stored in a local /var/mail spool? Is it delivered to a home directory? Is it forwarded via smtp to the Windows box running the imap daemon? -- Paul Heinlein From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 27 10:09:01 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:09:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > Postfix > > Hmm. I should have asked the larger question: > > After mail is received by Postfix, what happens? Is it stored in a > local /var/mail spool? Is it delivered to a home directory? Is it > forwarded via smtp to the Windows box running the imap daemon? Currently only the NT box is receiving mail. On the Linux box, received mail is stored in /var/spool/mail. WU-IMAP then handles it from there. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 27 10:14:01 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:14:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dr. Seuss - Why Computers Sometimes Crash (fwd) Message-ID: Just in from my sister. Thought you'd enjoy it, too. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port, and the bus is interrupted at a very last resort, and the access of the memory makes your floppy disk abort, then the socket packet pocket has an error to report. If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash, and the double-clicking icon puts your window in the trash, and your data is corrupted cause the index doesn't hash, then your situation's hopeless and your system's gonna crash! If the label on the cable on the table at your house, says the network is connected to the button on your mouse, but your packets want to tunnel to another protocol, that's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall. And your screen is all distorted by the side effects of gauss, so your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse; then you may as well reboot and go out with a bang, 'cuz sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang. When the copy on your floppy's getting sloppy in the disk, and the macro code instructions cause unnecessary risk, then you'll have to flash the memory and you'll want to RAM your ROM, and then quickly turn off the computer and be sure to tell your Mom! Well, that certainly clears things up for me. How about you? Thank you, Bill Gates, for bringing all this into our lives. The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the individual and/or entity identified in the alias address of this message. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby requested not to distribute or copy this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or return e-mail and delete the original message from your system. Thank you. From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 27 10:25:03 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:25:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Currently only the NT box is receiving mail. On the Linux box, > received mail is stored in /var/spool/mail. WU-IMAP then handles it > from there. Postfix is running on the NT box? -- Paul Heinlein From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 27 10:29:01 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:29:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > Currently only the NT box is receiving mail. On the Linux box, > > received mail is stored in /var/spool/mail. WU-IMAP then handles it > > from there. > > Postfix is running on the NT box? No... Postfix is only on the Linux box. The NT box is running some IMAP software I've never heard of. From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 27 10:35:03 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:35:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > No... Postfix is only on the Linux box. The NT box is running some > IMAP software I've never heard of. I'm missing something. Inbound messages are received by Postfix running on the Linux box, right? How do they get to the imap server running on the NT box? -- Paul Heinlein From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 27 10:36:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:36:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077906903.6085.36.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:07, Matt Alexander wrote: > Currently only the NT box is receiving mail. On the Linux box, received > mail is stored in /var/spool/mail. WU-IMAP then handles it from there. FWIW, IMHO... UW-IMAP pretty much is one of the worst IMAP servers out there. I used it for a few years, however, without any major problems. When I set up SquirrelMail, I ran into a few issues I ran past the SM devs. The first thing they ask is "what IMAP server are you using?" ... I told them uw-imapd. They proceeded to rant for a bit about how crappy an IMAP server that is. If the users are going to leave mail on the server, uw-imap will start slowing down as mailboxes get large (a few thousand messages). If users have things in their home directories, uw-imap will scan them. IME, some IMAP clients won't differentiate between non-mailboxes and mailboxes in a user's home directory when using uw-imap. Since you're starting from scratch, essentially, I'd suggest going with Maildir (which is faster than mbox, especially for larger mail folders) and a different IMAP server. I, personally, like bincimap, but it is young. There's that new one... its name starts with an A... Avion? Something like that... that people seem to like, but the bincimap developer didn't like their development style. Postfix has support for Maildir, as does procmail. Just my two cents... :-) Rob From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 27 10:37:03 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:37:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077907003.6091.39.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:27, Matt Alexander wrote: > No... Postfix is only on the Linux box. The NT box is running some IMAP > software I've never heard of. What does the NT box use as a MTA, however? IMAP/POP3 - Ways the MUAs access mail, they don't actually do the sending of mail, though. Some servers integrate IMAP, POP3, and SMTP into a single setup, but they rarely identify such things as 'IMAP Servers' ... I really don't like that idea, personally. I like keeping things modularized. :-) What is listening on port 25 of the NT box? Rob From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 27 10:42:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:42:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: <1077907003.6091.39.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1077907003.6091.39.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1077907293.10255.20.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:36, AthlonRob wrote: > IMAP/POP3 - Ways the MUAs access mail, they don't actually do the > sending of mail, though. There is here an unfortunately gap in the terminology. I have seen once or twice the term "Mail Presentation Agent" for the layer between mail store and MUA, but it is not in wide use. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * Sophos Anti-Virus Reseller http://nakedape.cc/r/sav * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From AthlonRob at axpr.net Fri Feb 27 10:46:02 2004 From: AthlonRob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:46:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: <1077907293.10255.20.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> References: <1077907003.6091.39.camel@dell.linux.box> <1077907293.10255.20.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> Message-ID: <1077907551.6086.43.camel@dell.linux.box> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:41, Wil Cooley wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:36, AthlonRob wrote: > > > IMAP/POP3 - Ways the MUAs access mail, they don't actually do the > > sending of mail, though. > > There is here an unfortunately gap in the terminology. I have seen once > or twice the term "Mail Presentation Agent" for the layer between mail > store and MUA, but it is not in wide use. I like it. If we all start using it, it will become the standard, allowing us to say things like: The MTA sent it to the LDA which stored it in the spool for the MPA to fetch for the MUA. Hmmm... since the LDA is 'local' ... could the POP3/IMAP server be the RDA instead of the MPA? Rob From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 27 10:49:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:49:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > No... Postfix is only on the Linux box. The NT box is running some > > IMAP software I've never heard of. > > I'm missing something. Inbound messages are received by Postfix > running on the Linux box, right? How do they get to the imap server > running on the NT box? Inbound messages are currently sent to the NT box running some software that both receives the mail and runs imap. They want to switch to Linux. Currently no mail is being delivered to the Linux box. I have Postfix and uw-imap configured, but I can use any imap server. They've successfully connected to the Linux server using Outlook, but they were hoping to be able to test both servers simultaneously by having messages sent to both, but this may not be possible. ~M From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 27 10:55:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 27 10:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Inbound messages are currently sent to the NT box running some > software that both receives the mail and runs imap. > > They want to switch to Linux. Currently no mail is being delivered > to the Linux box. I have Postfix and uw-imap configured, but I can > use any imap server. > > They've successfully connected to the Linux server using Outlook, > but they were hoping to be able to test both servers simultaneously > by having messages sent to both, but this may not be possible. It's possible; you just haven't provided enough information yet for us to figure out how. :-) Here's the next question. Leaving aside the question of the imap folders (which we know live on the NT box), where does a user's main inbox reside? Is it on the Linux box (presumably in /var/mail) or the NT box? If the inbox resides on the NT box, what Postfix configuration directive is used to let Postfix know that inbound messages are not delivered locally but forwarded on to the NT box? -- Paul Heinlein From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 27 11:07:02 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 27 11:07:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: <1077907551.6086.43.camel@dell.linux.box> References: <1077907003.6091.39.camel@dell.linux.box> <1077907293.10255.20.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> <1077907551.6086.43.camel@dell.linux.box> Message-ID: <1077908801.10255.32.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:45, AthlonRob wrote: > I like it. If we all start using it, it will become the standard, > allowing us to say things like: I already have: http://nakedape.cc/info/Cyrus-IMAP-HOWTO/Cyrus-IMAP-HOWTO.html http://nakedape.cc/wiki/EmailSystems A Google search is also interesting: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22mail+presentation+agent%22 > The MTA sent it to the LDA which stored it in the spool for the MPA to > fetch for the MUA. > > Hmmm... since the LDA is 'local' ... could the POP3/IMAP server be the > RDA instead of the MPA? Well, it doesn't remotely deliver--I think "deliver" implies an active sender and a passive (or at least waiting) receiver. "Agent" might not be the best term either, since a defined mailbox format is itself part of the layer. Throwing in lots of terminology where there was none is somewhat tedious, so I'd rather avoid proposing both "Mail Presentation Agent" as a subset of "Mail Presentation Layer". Maybe sticking with "Layer" is the best approach. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From m at phxlinux.org Fri Feb 27 11:07:22 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Fri Feb 27 11:07:22 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > Inbound messages are currently sent to the NT box running some > > software that both receives the mail and runs imap. > > > > They want to switch to Linux. Currently no mail is being delivered > > to the Linux box. I have Postfix and uw-imap configured, but I can > > use any imap server. > > > > They've successfully connected to the Linux server using Outlook, > > but they were hoping to be able to test both servers simultaneously > > by having messages sent to both, but this may not be possible. > > It's possible; you just haven't provided enough information yet for us > to figure out how. :-) > > Here's the next question. Leaving aside the question of the imap > folders (which we know live on the NT box), where does a user's main > inbox reside? Is it on the Linux box (presumably in /var/mail) or the > NT box? > > If the inbox resides on the NT box, what Postfix configuration > directive is used to let Postfix know that inbound messages are not > delivered locally but forwarded on to the NT box? Hmmm... OK, let's start over. Ignore the Linux box at the moment. Mail comes into the NT box. Users connect to the NT box from Outlook using IMAP. All their incoming mail is on the NT box in whatever format that particular program uses. Now... they want to replace the NT mailserver with a Linux box that does the same thing. I've setup a Linux box running Postfix and uw-imap. We configured a few Outlook clients to successfully connect to the Linux server. The owner was hoping to have mail delivered from the Internet to both boxes simultaneously. Then he could verify that both servers function the same before switching over completely to Linux. From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 27 11:07:53 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 27 11:07:53 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040227190459.GB6882@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 10:54:12AM -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > Here's the next question. Leaving aside the question of the imap > folders (which we know live on the NT box), where does a user's main > inbox reside? Is it on the Linux box (presumably in /var/mail) or the > NT box? > > If the inbox resides on the NT box, what Postfix configuration > directive is used to let Postfix know that inbound messages are not > delivered locally but forwarded on to the NT box? That's not the point, I believe. What he's trying to get is: Have NT now Want Linux soon How can I perform parallel operations so the user community trusts the new stuff? i.e., ideally he'd like a particular piece of email to be delivered to both email servers in a quasi-identical manner so the users can connect to NT box and go "Yup, there's my familiar email." and then connect to the Linux box and go "Golly, there it is too. That Linux thing is OK after all." Now I don't see a way for this to happen without some additional piece to be involved that would forward the email from the NT box to the Linux box after it has gone through the normal delivery to the MTA routine. Consider if this were an accounting system you'd have the data entry clerks input the same information into both system and then run reports to verify the same balances were derived. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: What we do not understand we do not possess. -- Goethe From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 27 11:14:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 27 11:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > Hmmm... OK, let's start over. Ignore the Linux box at the moment. > Mail comes into the NT box. Arrrgh! You said that mail was being received by Postfix! Now you're saying that mail is really being received by some (unknown) software on the NT box? I want to help, but the information you're giving is maddeningly incomplete. So, I want to know ... If I send a message to someone at yourclient.com, what is the *exact* path it takes to get to someone's inbox? I want to know every machine and every piece of software in the mix. -- Paul Heinlein From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 27 11:18:02 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Fri Feb 27 11:18:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] scp problem Message-ID: Dear all: I am trying to scp a directory from a linux box (RH9) to a solaris box. I have both OpenSSH 3.7 and OpenSSH 1.2.3 installed. I thought the problem below is that I need ssh protocol 1 (so I installed OpenSSH 1.2.3). So I have scp1 in my path but I still get this FATAL error below. Am I still missing something? [root at var0289 data]# scp -r files_director/ userx at machine1:/home/ userx at machine1's password: scp: warning: Executing scp1. scp: FATAL: Executing ssh1 in compatibility mode failed (Check that scp1 is in your PATH). lost connection [root at mybox data]# which scp1 /usr/local/bin/scp1 [root at mybox data]# which ssh1 /usr/bin/which: no ssh1 in (/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/java/j2sdk1.4.2/bin:/root/bin:/usr/local/java/j2sdk1.4.2/bin:/usr/local/java/j2sdk1.4.2/bin:/usr/local/java/j2sdk1.4.2/bin) Thanks for any help. --Vincent _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From mikeraz at patch.com Fri Feb 27 11:37:02 2004 From: mikeraz at patch.com (Michael Rasmussen) Date: Fri Feb 27 11:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] scp problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040227193549.GA7215@patch.com> On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 07:17:25PM +0000, Vincent Yau wrote: > I am trying to scp a directory from a linux box (RH9) to a solaris box. > I have both OpenSSH 3.7 and OpenSSH 1.2.3 installed. I thought > the problem below is that I need ssh protocol 1 (so I installed OpenSSH > 1.2.3). > So I have scp1 in my path but I still get this FATAL error below. > Am I still missing something? Is the Solaris box running openssh too? Or might it be running the commercial version? If so you have a compatibility problem. The workaround is to: scp -r files_director/ userx at machine1:/home/ ssh solaris_box 'scp -r /home/ files_director/' So your using the remote command execution of ssh to do the scp from the solaris box. -- Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org The fortune cookie says: Men of peace usually are [brave]. -- Spock, "The Savage Curtain", stardate 5906.5 From heinlein at madboa.com Fri Feb 27 11:54:02 2004 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Fri Feb 27 11:54:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] scp problem In-Reply-To: <20040227193549.GA7215@patch.com> References: <20040227193549.GA7215@patch.com> Message-ID: If ssh works but scp doesn't, then see the SSH FAQ: http://www.openssh.org/faq.html#2.9 -- Paul Heinlein From aaron at speakeasy.org Fri Feb 27 12:27:01 2004 From: aaron at speakeasy.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Fri Feb 27 12:27:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > They've successfully connected to the Linux server using Outlook, but they > were hoping to be able to test both servers simultaneously by having > messages sent to both, but this may not be possible. With that description, sounds like you could just tell the Linux box to forward all incoming mail to the NT box as well as delivering it locally. Test it by sending mail to the Linux box, where it'll end up on both servers. Once you're confident in the Linux server and ready to transition, cut the DNS MX record or IP address over to the Linux box, preserving the forward to the NT box. Once that's done (DNS records can take up to a week) you can migrate the users from the NT server to the Linux server as you like, since mail will be coming in to both places. Do be aware of what their mail clients are doing to the mailspool on the server. They might be deleting mail, or just marking it read, and either way, the transition might screw things up and cause double messages in users' inboxes. Then start playing with the free, fun stuff that Linux enables, such as SpamAssassin, email-virus scanning, web interfaces and mailing lists. Good luck and thanks for making Linux look good, Aaron From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 27 13:05:03 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Fri Feb 27 13:05:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] scp problem Message-ID: This is how I have been getting around the problem. But I don't understand why it should work fine under solaris but not RH9.... >From: Michael Rasmussen >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >Subject: Re: [PLUG] scp problem >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:35:49 -0800 > >On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 07:17:25PM +0000, Vincent Yau wrote: > > I am trying to scp a directory from a linux box (RH9) to a solaris box. > > I have both OpenSSH 3.7 and OpenSSH 1.2.3 installed. I thought > > the problem below is that I need ssh protocol 1 (so I installed OpenSSH > > 1.2.3). > > So I have scp1 in my path but I still get this FATAL error below. > > Am I still missing something? > >Is the Solaris box running openssh too? Or might it be running the >commercial version? If so you have a compatibility problem. The >workaround is to: > > scp -r files_director/ userx at machine1:/home/ > ssh solaris_box 'scp -r /home/ files_director/' > >So your using the remote command execution of ssh to do the scp from the >solaris box. > >-- > Michael Rasmussen aka mikeraz > Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity > http://www.patch.com/ http://meme.patch.com/ > Get Fixed: http://www.dampfixie.org > The fortune cookie says: >Men of peace usually are [brave]. > -- Spock, "The Savage Curtain", stardate 5906.5 > > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Fri Feb 27 13:22:02 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Fri Feb 27 13:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] scp problem Message-ID: I think this FAQ hits the right direction. The solaris box .bashrc does produce a bunch of stuff while I have another linux with login config not producing anything. scp to that Linux box works just fine. However, even after I removed all "output" from .bashrc on that solaris box, I still get the same error. sftp, however, works fine. So I will rely on sftp for now until I figure out what it is that sets the shell init to complain.... Thanks. >From: Paul Heinlein >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >Subject: Re: [PLUG] scp problem >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:52:58 -0800 (PST) > >If ssh works but scp doesn't, then see the SSH FAQ: > > http://www.openssh.org/faq.html#2.9 > >-- Paul Heinlein > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From keith at ahapala.net Fri Feb 27 15:37:02 2004 From: keith at ahapala.net (Keith Nasman) Date: Fri Feb 27 15:37:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040227234429.GA6989@ahapala.net> > > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > > > > I have a client that has an IMAP server running on an NT box. They > > > want to migrate to Linux so I've setup an IMAP server on Linux. > > > They'd like mail to be delivered to both servers for the time being > > > so users can get used to checking email on the Linux server, but > > > still feel confident that their mail is working. > > > > > > Any ideas how to do this? Fetchmail on the Linux box pulling from > > > the NT box maybe? Is there some other way to magically deliver mail > > > to both boxes simultaneously? > > Matt, I asked my Windows guru if Exchange can deliver locally AND forward a copy of the mail to another server and he said it can certainly do that. I vaguely remember that functionality but it's been a couple of years since I've had to deal with Exchange. Keith From apollyon42 at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 15:44:02 2004 From: apollyon42 at comcast.net (rikell42) Date: Fri Feb 27 15:44:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] my mouse wheel stoped working Message-ID: <1077925642.2146.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> well I got up today and turned on my computer and my mouse wheel does not work anymore. I find this very strange. I really don't know what to do other then reinstall my OS. If that is what I need to do then how would I keep my home directory from being formated? I don't care about the rest of it. it can all go but I don't want my personal files to be lost. any advice? From keith at ahapala.net Fri Feb 27 16:00:02 2004 From: keith at ahapala.net (Keith Nasman) Date: Fri Feb 27 16:00:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] my mouse wheel stoped working In-Reply-To: <1077925642.2146.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> References: <1077925642.2146.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> Message-ID: <20040228000644.GB6989@ahapala.net> You don't need to reinstall. You have a couple of options. Take a look in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 (if you are using version 4 of X). There is an input section in there for the mouse, it should look similar to this: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection The last option corresponds to the mouse wheel. Add or fix that line and then restart the X server (logging out and in will do it). If that doesn't do it you can try one of the utilities, such as xf86config. Be safe and make a backup copy of your XF86Config[-4] file. HTH, Keith On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 03:47:23PM -0800, rikell42 wrote: > well I got up today and turned on my computer and my mouse wheel does > not work anymore. I find this very strange. I really don't know what to > do other then reinstall my OS. If that is what I need to do then how > would I keep my home directory from being formated? I don't care about > the rest of it. it can all go but I don't want my personal files to be > lost. > > any advice? > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From krisa at subtend.net Fri Feb 27 16:02:02 2004 From: krisa at subtend.net (Kris) Date: Fri Feb 27 16:02:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] plushy penguin Message-ID: <20040228000126.GA16989@subtend.net> Anyone have a stuffed penguin I could borrow this Sunday for a photo shoot? It would have to be big enough to wear a little kids shirt. -- I'm just a packet pusher. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 27 16:35:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 27 16:35:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] my mouse wheel stoped working In-Reply-To: <1077925642.2146.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> References: <1077925642.2146.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, rikell42 wrote: > well I got up today and turned on my computer and my mouse wheel does not > work anymore. I find this very strange. I really don't know what to do > other then reinstall my OS. If that is what I need to do then how would I > keep my home directory from being formated? I don't care about the rest of > it. it can all go but I don't want my personal files to be lost. > > any advice? Is this winduhs? If you are referring to linux then a dead mouse (or mouse exercise wheel) does _not_ require the standard Microsoft solution. Go buy a new mouse and plug it in. If your system does not recognize it, then try shutting down X and restarting it, killing gpm and restarting it and -- as a last resort -- rebooting. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Feb 27 16:38:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri Feb 27 16:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] plushy penguin In-Reply-To: <20040228000126.GA16989@subtend.net> References: <20040228000126.GA16989@subtend.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Kris wrote: > Anyone have a stuffed penguin I could borrow this Sunday for a photo > shoot? It would have to be big enough to wear a little kids shirt. Well, ... a really tiny kid's shirt. One's about 3" high, the other's about 6" high. Or, perhaps Paul Nelson will allow you to borrow the one that sits on top of the rack system at Riverdale H.S. That one, however, will take an XXX-Large tee-shirt. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From apollyon42 at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 17:11:02 2004 From: apollyon42 at comcast.net (rikell42) Date: Fri Feb 27 17:11:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] my mouse wheel stoped working In-Reply-To: <1077925642.2146.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> References: <1077925642.2146.6.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> Message-ID: <1077930914.3345.3.camel@x1-6-00-40-f4-82-41-d5> well I don't get it but it works now. I really did not do anything but rebooted my computer a bunch of times. computers seem to be a mystery some to me sometimes. I think the reason that this happened is that how ever turned the computer off the last time just pushed the power switch. I know that this is not that best thing to do but can it really shrew things up hard core? On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 15:47, rikell42 wrote: > well I got up today and turned on my computer and my mouse wheel does > not work anymore. I find this very strange. I really don't know what to > do other then reinstall my OS. If that is what I need to do then how > would I keep my home directory from being formated? I don't care about > the rest of it. it can all go but I don't want my personal files to be > lost. > > any advice? > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com Fri Feb 27 17:33:02 2004 From: clydefrog at adnap.no-ip.com (Evan Heidtmann) Date: Fri Feb 27 17:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dr. Seuss - Why Computers Sometimes Crash (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077903072.1914.2.camel@timmy> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:12, Rich Shepard wrote: > Just in from my sister. Thought you'd enjoy it, too. > > Rich A slight modification of this is in my fortune database: If Dr. Seuss Were a Technical Writer..... [...] -- DementDJ at ccip.perkin-elmer.com (DementDJ) [rec.humor.funny] Evan From pcwren at msn.com Fri Feb 27 17:50:02 2004 From: pcwren at msn.com (Philip Wren) Date: Fri Feb 27 17:50:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mandrake ADVX Newbie Message-ID: Hello, I was wondering if I could get some help with a problem I am having... I have just installed on my server computer Mandrake 9.1 download version and then I installed the Advx package: Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.47 (Mandrake Linux/6mdk) mod_perl/1.99_09 Perl/v5.8.1 mod_ssl/2.0.47 OpenSSL/0.9.7b PHP/4.3.2 ...I have worked with apache before but this one has greater security than I am using so I can not find the access configuration file or settings that I am looking for. The problem I am having related to editing the site documents locally and within the intranet...I am not even sure where to start with permissions. I need to find some documentation on how this is setup. thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx From pcwren at msn.com Fri Feb 27 17:51:02 2004 From: pcwren at msn.com (Philip Wren) Date: Fri Feb 27 17:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mandrake ADVX Newbie Message-ID: Hello, I was wondering if I could get some help with a problem I am having... I have just installed on my server computer Mandrake 9.1 download version and then I installed the Advx package: Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.47 (Mandrake Linux/6mdk) mod_perl/1.99_09 Perl/v5.8.1 mod_ssl/2.0.47 OpenSSL/0.9.7b PHP/4.3.2 ...I have worked with apache before but this one has greater security than I am using so I can not find the access configuration file or settings that I am looking for. The problem I am having related to editing the site documents locally and within the intranet...I am not even sure where to start with permissions. I need to find some documentation on how this is setup. thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 27 18:14:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 27 18:14:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dr. Seuss - Why Computers Sometimes Crash (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1077903072.1914.2.camel@timmy> References: <1077903072.1914.2.camel@timmy> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Evan Heidtmann wrote: > On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:12, Rich Shepard wrote: > > Just in from my sister. Thought you'd enjoy it, too. > > A slight modification of this is in my fortune database: > > If Dr. Seuss Were a Technical Writer..... > > [...] > > -- DementDJ at ccip.perkin-elmer.com (DementDJ) Of course, it's not meant to sound like Dr. Seuss.. it doesn't follow his style at all. It's clearly written to follow the tune of "Turkey In The Straw". This is as annoying as every mildly humorous song on OpenNap being labelled as "Weird Al". J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Fri Feb 27 18:41:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Fri Feb 27 18:41:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] smbldap-tools. Message-ID: So... I'm setting up this Samba+LDAP thing. I'm looking at these smbldap-tools for creating users and machine accounts and stuff. I installed 'em and configured 'em, but they don't seem to be doing what I'd like them to be doing. They're creating LDAP entries under People, which seems right... but they're ALSO creating entries in unix accounts for those people. Is that how it should be? It seems like a mess. Do I need unix users for each of the Samba users? Can't Samba just check LDAP for permissions and stuff instead of using filesystem permissions? Confused, Jeme. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From drl at drloree.com Fri Feb 27 19:22:01 2004 From: drl at drloree.com (Derek Loree) Date: Fri Feb 27 19:22:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Mail to two IMAP servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077938767.842.45.camel@fastlinux.homenet> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 12:26, Aaron Burt wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Matt Alexander wrote: > > They've successfully connected to the Linux server using Outlook, but they > > were hoping to be able to test both servers simultaneously by having > > messages sent to both, but this may not be possible. The only way to really do this is to setup an ip-relay that will relay packets to both servers. The NT box would have to change its IP address, and all of your users would have to reconfigure their email clients. I'm not sure if it is worth the effort. > > With that description, sounds like you could just tell the Linux box > to forward all incoming mail to the NT box as well as delivering it > locally. Test it by sending mail to the Linux box, where it'll end up > on both servers. > > Once you're confident in the Linux server and ready to transition, cut > the DNS MX record or IP address over to the Linux box, preserving the > forward to the NT box. Once that's done (DNS records can take up to a > week) you can migrate the users from the NT server to the Linux server > as you like, since mail will be coming in to both places. I would suggest setting up forwarding on the NT box, sending the mail to user at IP-address-of-linux-box. Then when the boss gets tired of how slow his email client is getting (because it now has twice the load), shutdown the NT box, reconfigure all of the email clients (disable the NT account, and change the linux account to new IP address), then change the IP address of the linux box to that of the NT box. If something goes wrong, all you have to do is unplug the linux box (so it stops receiving mail), reconfigure all the mail clients and then bring the NT box back up. This is assuming that the company has followed M$'s advice (only one service per server) and the only service being provided by this NT box is email. > > Do be aware of what their mail clients are doing to the mailspool on > the server. They might be deleting mail, or just marking it read, and > either way, the transition might screw things up and cause double > messages in users' inboxes. I agree, and the address change of the linux box will need to be delt with in each of the users mail clients, and disabling the NT accounts. > > Then start playing with the free, fun stuff that Linux enables, such > as SpamAssassin, email-virus scanning, web interfaces and mailing > lists. > And your not limited to one service per server! Good Luck, Derek Loree > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From sandy at herring.org Fri Feb 27 21:02:01 2004 From: sandy at herring.org (Sandy Herring) Date: Fri Feb 27 21:02:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dr. Seuss - Why Computers Sometimes Crash (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040228050103.GA1189@kippered.herring.org> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Just in from my sister. Thought you'd enjoy it, too. > > Rich [...] It's the work of Gene Ziegler, and is, in the author's words... "A very popular, often published, and frequently stolen poem written in classical Dr. Seuss, Cat-In-Hat style. The poem has a colorful history of both pain and pleasure for the author. Read and enjoy, but don't steal." It is rarely quoted in full (current forward not excepted), and I've never seen the proper attribution on any of the many forwards I've gotten. The author's web site is: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/elz1/clocktower/ You'll find it listed there as "A Grandchild's Guide to Using Grandpa's Computer", it's proper appellation. You'll also find Dr. Ziegler's response to the plagiarism ("Hang the Information Highwayman!"). He's an interesting fellow, and his original work merits a visit to his site. Check it out. I've had a link to his site from my own for many years. Sandy -- Sandy Herring, RHCE o sandy at herring.org Peck of Pickled Pisces __ o http://herring.org/ UNIX or Web authoring questions? |\/ o\ o http://herring.org/finger.html ->http://herring.org/techie.html |/\__/ http://herring.org/pub-key.asc From wcooley at nakedape.cc Fri Feb 27 21:36:01 2004 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Fri Feb 27 21:36:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] smbldap-tools. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077946554.4226.28.camel@denk.nakedape.priv> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 18:40, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > So... I'm setting up this Samba+LDAP thing. > > I'm looking at these smbldap-tools for creating users and machine accounts > and stuff. I installed 'em and configured 'em, but they don't seem to be > doing what I'd like them to be doing. > > They're creating LDAP entries under People, which seems right... but > they're ALSO creating entries in unix accounts for those people. Is that > how it should be? It seems like a mess. Do I need unix users for each of > the Samba users? Can't Samba just check LDAP for permissions and stuff > instead of using filesystem permissions? You need posixAccount attributes for username<=>UID mapping. What's messy about it? Without LDAP, you'd need accounts in /etc/passwd and smbpasswd--this is basically the same thing, with flat-file databases replaced with a directory. You could, I suppose, use 'force user' and 'force group' to force all files to be owned by one user:group, but that's enough of a corner-case that no one bothers with it. You also get a couple of other things for free--like the ability to have multiple boxes with a single user-name-space and "Consistent Sign-On". Different people are more or less excited about being able to use it as an internal addressbook. Wil -- Wil Cooley wcooley at nakedape.cc Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * * * Linux, UNIX, Networking and Security Solutions * * * * * Naked Ape Consulting http://nakedape.cc * * AIX Support & Service http://nakedape.cc/r/aix * -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Feb 28 07:04:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat Feb 28 07:04:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dr. Seuss - Why Computers Sometimes Crash (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20040228050103.GA1189@kippered.herring.org> References: <20040228050103.GA1189@kippered.herring.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Sandy Herring wrote: > He's an interesting fellow, and his original work merits a visit to his > site. Check it out. I've had a link to his site from my own for many > years. Sandy, Thanks for the pointer! He is a gifted writer and his site is a fascinating place to spend a half-hour. I think there are several potential Simion replacements in the local area. Should we let them know of the job opening? Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From dmandel at pdxLinux.org Sat Feb 28 08:13:02 2004 From: dmandel at pdxLinux.org (David Mandel) Date: Sat Feb 28 08:13:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Speaker needed for next Thursday's PLUG meeting Message-ID: We still need a speaker for ext Thursday's PLUG meeting: 7 PM Thursday March 4, 2004 at Portland State University in the Smith Memorial Center Room 298 So, would anyone like to volunteer to speak? If so, please contact me soon. In fact, it might be best if you called me on my cell phone at 541-730-5285; but don't call until about 1:00 PM as I'm in a workshop this morning. Sincerely, David Mandel Chief Activist Portland Linux/Unix Group 560 SE Alexander Corvallis, Oregon 97333 (541) 684-4644 at work (541) 730-5285 cell ====================================================================== David Mandel, Instructor http://www.PioneerPacific.edu Other Affiliations David Mandel http://www.DavidMandel.com Portland Linux/Unix Group http://pdxLinux.org LinuxFund http://LinuxFund.org ====================================================================== From jeme at brelin.net Sat Feb 28 16:39:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sat Feb 28 16:39:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dr. Seuss - Why Computers Sometimes Crash (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20040228050103.GA1189@kippered.herring.org> References: <20040228050103.GA1189@kippered.herring.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Sandy Herring wrote: > It's the work of Gene Ziegler, and is, in the author's words... > > "A very popular, often published, and frequently stolen poem written > in classical Dr. Seuss, Cat-In-Hat style. The poem has a colorful > history of both pain and pleasure for the author. Read and enjoy, > but don't steal." He's just plain confused. It's nothing like The Cat In The Hat and much more like Gilbert and Sullivan. The cadence is nothing like Seuss. And I still contend that it was at least unconsciously written to the tune of Turkey In The Straw. Just because the author thinks its in a particular style doesn't make it so. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From bspears at easystreet.com Sun Feb 29 06:50:04 2004 From: bspears at easystreet.com (Bill Spears) Date: Sun Feb 29 06:50:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Dr. Seuss - Why Computers Sometimes Crash (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <20040228050103.GA1189@kippered.herring.org> Message-ID: <1078066196.17828.2.camel@apollo.spears.org> On Sat, 2004-02-28 at 16:38, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Sandy Herring wrote: > > It's the work of Gene Ziegler, and is, in the author's words... > > > > "A very popular, often published, and frequently stolen poem written > > in classical Dr. Seuss, Cat-In-Hat style. The poem has a colorful > > history of both pain and pleasure for the author. Read and enjoy, > > but don't steal." > > He's just plain confused. It's nothing like The Cat In The Hat and much > more like Gilbert and Sullivan. The cadence is nothing like Seuss. And I > still contend that it was at least unconsciously written to the tune of > Turkey In The Straw. > > Just because the author thinks its in a particular style doesn't make it > so. > > J. My God! You're right. F-g unbelievable. I'm going to go lie down. -- Bill Spears From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 12:57:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 12:57:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X Message-ID: As I slowly set up my new system I find minor stumbling blocks. Today I upgraded Xfce on that box and fired up X. The fonts in the virtual terminals are not as crisp on the 17" LCD monitor as they are on a CRT monitor. Is this a function of pixel size or some other hardware-related thingie? The colors on each character -- or between adjacent chars -- is not even. Perhaps that's the problem. I've not seen this on my notebooks; perhaps that's because their monitors are so much smaller. Is this common with larger LCD screens? If not, how might I tweak the visual appearance? The display resolution is set at 1024x768 and the monitor frequencies were not explicitly set by me. They are 48.3 kHz for horizonal and 60 Hz for vertical (the units may be reversed -- if so that's inadvertent). Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From athlonrob at axpr.net Sun Feb 29 13:21:02 2004 From: athlonrob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 29 13:21:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> On Sunday 29 February 2004 12:56, Rich Shepard wrote: > Is this common with larger LCD screens? If not, how might I tweak the > visual appearance? The display resolution is set at 1024x768 and the > monitor frequencies were not explicitly set by me. They are 48.3 kHz for > horizonal and 60 Hz for vertical (the units may be reversed -- if so that's > inadvertent). Is 1024x768 the native resolution on the screen? I would expect a 17" LCD to default to 1600x1200. With LCDs, it is important to stick with that native resolution. Rob From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 29 13:43:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 29 13:43:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More SCSI woes. Message-ID: I replaced an aged Adaptec 2940 card with a newer 2940 card. The old one was AHA-2940UW and the new one is AHA-2940U2W. The motherboard is a Gigabyte somethin' or other with a Via Apollo Pro133 chipset (VT82C693A/694x). When I boot with the new card, the SCSI bios comes up alright, but as soon as that screen ends, when control should go back to the system bios for booting the IDE disks (the SCSI controller just has CD/DVD devices on it), there is a continuous beep and nothing happens. No idea where to even begin. I REALLY want to use this new card. Anyone? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From techmage at aracnet.com Sun Feb 29 14:06:02 2004 From: techmage at aracnet.com (Prutzer) Date: Sun Feb 29 14:06:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More SCSI woes. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <404261a1.396371@mail.aracnet.com> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:42:36 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > >I replaced an aged Adaptec 2940 card with a newer 2940 card. The old one >was AHA-2940UW and the new one is AHA-2940U2W. > >The motherboard is a Gigabyte somethin' or other with a Via Apollo Pro133 >chipset (VT82C693A/694x). > >When I boot with the new card, the SCSI bios comes up alright, but as soon >as that screen ends, when control should go back to the system bios for >booting the IDE disks (the SCSI controller just has CD/DVD devices on it), >there is a continuous beep and nothing happens. > >No idea where to even begin. > >I REALLY want to use this new card. > >Anyone? > >J. Check to make sure all your IDE devices are plugged in correctly. If the MOBO BIOS recognizes the SCSI card and the CD/dvd drives and then drops back into BIOS, then the beeping indicates an IDE device or another PCI device that is either not set correctly or does not have the plug on tight. When you say a continuous beep, does it not stop beeping after ten or so beeps? Check the manual on the MOBO as it should have the beep code on it. Is there on board scsi on the MOBO? This might be part of the trouble if so. Just some food for thought. Harry Dont immanentize the eschaton From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 14:24:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 14:24:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X In-Reply-To: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> References: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, AthlonRob wrote: > Is 1024x768 the native resolution on the screen? Rob, Good point. > I would expect a 17" LCD to default to 1600x1200. With LCDs, it is > important to stick with that native resolution. According to the carton, the maximum resolution is 1280x1024. I changed the "Display" stanzas in /etx/X11/XF86Config to have that resolution first and 1024x768 second. Killed X and restarted it. No visible difference. Is there something I missed? FWIW, this was my only Fry's purchase in the last few years. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 29 14:33:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 29 14:33:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More SCSI woes. In-Reply-To: <404261a1.396371@mail.aracnet.com> References: <404261a1.396371@mail.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Prutzer wrote: > Check to make sure all your IDE devices are plugged in correctly. If the > MOBO BIOS recognizes the SCSI card and the CD/dvd drives and then drops > back into BIOS, then the beeping indicates an IDE device or another PCI > device that is either not set correctly or does not have the plug on > tight. When you say a continuous beep, does it not stop beeping after > ten or so beeps? It's one long tone. It's probably not fair to call it a "beep". It ends when you turn off the computer. The machine works just fine without the card or with the old card, so it's not the IDE cables. > Check the manual on the MOBO as it should have the beep code on it. Nothing on one long tone. > Is there on board scsi on the MOBO? This might be part of the trouble if > so. Nope. > Just some food for thought. Appreciated. Next? J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 29 15:34:02 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Sun Feb 29 15:34:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDRW device detection problem Message-ID: Dear All: I got a used CDRW writer and it is made by AOPEN. X-CDRoast can detect it just fine and in fact I have successfully duplicated a data CD with it. However, when I ran 'cdrecord -scanbus', I got this error: [root at localhost root]# cdrecord -scanbus Cdrecord-Clone 2.01a19 (i686-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2003 Jrg Schilling cdrecord: Read-only file system. Cannot open '/dev/pg1'. Cannot open SCSI driver. cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you are root. cdrecord: For possible transport specifiers try 'cdrecord dev=help'. [root at localhost root]# XCDRoast reported that my drive is ATAPI:0,1,0. If I specify dev=0,1,0 in cdrecord, I got back a similar complain about cannot open /dev/pg1. I simlink /dev/pg1 to /dev/cdrom1. Still no use... Why is it that XCDRoast works and not cdrecord? thanks --Vincent _________________________________________________________________ Say ?good-bye? to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ From athlonrob at axpr.net Sun Feb 29 15:51:02 2004 From: athlonrob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 29 15:51:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDRW device detection problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402291550.04622.athlonrob@axpr.net> On Sunday 29 February 2004 15:21, Vincent Yau wrote: > However, when I ran 'cdrecord -scanbus', I got this error: > > [root at localhost root]# cdrecord -scanbus > Cdrecord-Clone 2.01a19 (i686-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2003 Jrg Schilling > cdrecord: Read-only file system. Cannot open '/dev/pg1'. Cannot open SCSI driver. > cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you are root. > cdrecord: For possible transport specifiers try 'cdrecord dev=help'. > [root at localhost root]# > > XCDRoast reported that my drive is ATAPI:0,1,0. Are you using kernel 2.6.x? If so, you need to tell cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc (if it's hdc) or dev=ATAPI:0,1,0 as XCDRoast stated. The latter is preferred by cdrecord. If you're using 2.4.x with ide-scsi emulation for CD-RW access, I really don't know what is up, sorry. Rob From cabbey at attbi.com Sun Feb 29 15:57:01 2004 From: cabbey at attbi.com (cabbey) Date: Sun Feb 29 15:57:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More SCSI woes. References: Message-ID: <40427805.1010400@attbi.com> Jeme A Brelin wrote: >I replaced an aged Adaptec 2940 card with a newer 2940 card. The old one >was AHA-2940UW and the new one is AHA-2940U2W. > >The motherboard is a Gigabyte somethin' or other with a Via Apollo Pro133 >chipset (VT82C693A/694x). > >When I boot with the new card, the SCSI bios comes up alright, but as soon >as that screen ends, when control should go back to the system bios for >booting the IDE disks (the SCSI controller just has CD/DVD devices on it), >there is a continuous beep and nothing happens. > > I've not had this particular problem, but you may want to see what bios version the 2940u2w card is flashed to. If you have a different system you can get it to run in and boot to floppy, then you could flash it to latest version (if not already). It should say the version at the adaptec bios prompt: > http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/drivers_by_product.html?sess=no&language=English+US&cat=%2fProduct%2fAHA-2940U2W&prodkey=AHA-2940U2W They list 3 current bios versions for the 2940u2w, so this might indicate compatibility issues requiring the use of 3 unique ones (The 2940uw only lists 2, but had *many* more versions than that)... Just FWIW, what version bios is each 2940 card? You might also try using a different PCI slot if possible. Does it do this long continuous beep if there are devices connected to the SCSI cables or when there are no devices at all hooked up? Try without any devices hooked up as well to see if this solves the beep issue - if so maybe a termination or lvd/se issue... From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 29 16:16:02 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Sun Feb 29 16:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] CDRW device detection problem Message-ID: I am using 2.4 Kernel. But the ATAPI:0,1,0 for dev seems to work fine. Thanks --vincent >From: AthlonRob >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >Subject: Re: [PLUG] CDRW device detection problem >Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:50:04 -0800 > >On Sunday 29 February 2004 15:21, Vincent Yau wrote: > > > However, when I ran 'cdrecord -scanbus', I got this error: > > > > [root at localhost root]# cdrecord -scanbus > > Cdrecord-Clone 2.01a19 (i686-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2003 >Jrg Schilling > > cdrecord: Read-only file system. Cannot open '/dev/pg1'. Cannot open >SCSI driver. > > cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you >are root. > > cdrecord: For possible transport specifiers try 'cdrecord dev=help'. > > [root at localhost root]# > > > > XCDRoast reported that my drive is ATAPI:0,1,0. > >Are you using kernel 2.6.x? If so, you need to tell cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc >(if >it's hdc) or dev=ATAPI:0,1,0 as XCDRoast stated. The latter is preferred >by >cdrecord. > >If you're using 2.4.x with ide-scsi emulation for CD-RW access, I really >don't >know what is up, sorry. > >Rob > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 16:16:23 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 16:16:23 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Colors in the 'ls' output Message-ID: According to the /etc/DIR_COLORS file, the color command can take one of two options: tty for the terminal in which the listing is displayed or all for all listings. However, when I change the alias in ~/.bash_profile to 'all', the system tells me that it's not an allowed option. Has anyone a clue how to make this work? Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 29 16:20:02 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Sun Feb 29 16:20:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More cdrecord problems Message-ID: Dear all: I have now a different cdrecord problems. I have a wav file that I want to try burning onto a CD-R so regular CD-player can play it. The wav file is ok as I can play it back on my RH9 box. When I do a file on it, it does report as a valid wav file. cdrecord, however, complains that it has inappropriate audio coding. I have included output below. Any tips much appreciated.... ----------------------------------------------- [root at localhost local]# cdrecord -v speed=1 dev=ATAPI:0,1,0 -pad -audio /usr/local/smallmen8.wav Cdrecord-Clone 2.01a19 (i686-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2003 Jrg Schilling TOC Type: 0 = CD-DA scsidev: 'ATAPI:0,1,0' devname: 'ATAPI' scsibus: 0 target: 1 lun: 0 Warning: Using ATA Packet interface. Warning: The related libscg interface code is in pre alpha. Warning: There may be fatal problems. Using libscg version 'schily-0.7' SCSI buffer size: 64512 atapi: 1 Device type : Removable CD-ROM Version : 0 Response Format: 1 Vendor_info : 'AOPEN ' Identifikation : 'CRW1232 ' Revision : '1.22' Device seems to be: Generic mmc CD-RW. Using generic SCSI-3/mmc CD-R/CD-RW driver (mmc_cdr). Driver flags : MMC SWABAUDIO Supported modes: TAO PACKET SAO SAO/R96P SAO/R96R RAW/R96R Drive buf size : 2752512 = 2688 KB FIFO size : 4194304 = 4096 KB cdrecord: Inappropriate audio coding in '/usr/local/smallmen8.wav'. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [root at localhost local]# file /usr/local/smallmen8.wav /usr/local/smallmen8.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44101 Hz [root at localhost local]# -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 29 16:56:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 29 16:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Colors in the 'ls' output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > However, when I change the alias in ~/.bash_profile to 'all', the > system tells me that it's not an allowed option. Has anyone a clue how > to make this work? Uh... I don't know what part of which alias you're changing to 'all', but I'll show you mine: alias ls='ls --color=if-tty -aF' This'll give me color codes for tty output and no color codes when I dump to file or pipe to another program. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 29 16:59:01 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 29 16:59:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More SCSI woes. In-Reply-To: <40427805.1010400@attbi.com> References: <40427805.1010400@attbi.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, cabbey wrote: > I've not had this particular problem, but you may want to see what bios > version the 2940u2w card is flashed to. If you have a different system > you can get it to run in and boot to floppy, then you could flash it to > latest version (if not already). It's not the latest version and I haven't tried it in any other systems. So there's something to do. I don't have too many systems to test, though. > They list 3 current bios versions for the 2940u2w, so this might > indicate compatibility issues requiring the use of 3 unique ones (The > 2940uw only lists 2, but had *many* more versions than that)... I'll read them and see if anything sounds right. > Just FWIW, what version bios is each 2940 card? The new card is 2.0 with a 1997 bios. Surely that could be updated if it would only let the system boot. > You might also try using a different PCI slot if possible. Will do. > Does it do this long continuous beep if there are devices connected to > the SCSI cables or when there are no devices at all hooked up? Haven't tried it without any devices connected, either. Good steps. > Try without any devices hooked up as well to see if this solves the beep > issue - if so maybe a termination or lvd/se issue... It's not termination, certainly. What would an "lvd/se issue" be? The difference between the cards is essentially this, so it seems the most likely culprit. J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From athlonrob at axpr.net Sun Feb 29 17:10:03 2004 From: athlonrob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:10:03 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More cdrecord problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402291709.23575.athlonrob@axpr.net> On Sunday 29 February 2004 16:19, Vincent Yau wrote: > The wav file is ok as I can play it back on my RH9 box. When I do a file > on it, it does report as a valid wav file. > > cdrecord, however, complains that it has inappropriate audio coding. > I have included output below. Any tips much appreciated.... I believe this is covered in the CD Writing HOWTO... in order to write audio tracks to a CD, the source must be a very specifically encoded WAV file. The bitrate, channels, stuff like that. RTFH? :-) Google can tell you more specifically. I'll bet XCDRoast does the conversion for you. Rob From aaron at speakeasy.org Sun Feb 29 17:15:02 2004 From: aaron at speakeasy.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:15:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X References: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> Message-ID: Rich Shepard wrote: > According to the carton, the maximum resolution is 1280x1024. That's yer problem right there. Text tooks terrible in anything other than the native resolution on an LCD. > I changed the "Display" stanzas in /etx/X11/XF86Config to have that > resolution first and 1024x768 second. Killed X and restarted it. No visible > difference. I'll bet X is refusing to come up in 1280x1024 for some reason. Check your HorizSync and VertRefresh against the manual's specs for those ranges. Mine are at 30-90 and 50-150 respectively. > Is there something I missed? FWIW, this was my only Fry's purchase in the > last few years. For God's sake, don't forget to send in the rebate form. From aaron at speakeasy.org Sun Feb 29 17:23:01 2004 From: aaron at speakeasy.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:23:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More SCSI woes. References: Message-ID: Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > I replaced an aged Adaptec 2940 card with a newer 2940 card. The old one > was AHA-2940UW and the new one is AHA-2940U2W. > > The motherboard is a Gigabyte somethin' or other with a Via Apollo Pro133 > chipset (VT82C693A/694x). > > When I boot with the new card, the SCSI bios comes up alright, but as soon > as that screen ends, when control should go back to the system bios for > booting the IDE disks (the SCSI controller just has CD/DVD devices on it), > there is a continuous beep and nothing happens. Betcha the SCSI card's BIOS is leaving things in a state the system BIOS can't handle. You don't need the BIOS unless you plan to boot from SCSI devices, so try disabling it in the SCSI BIOS setup. And yes, you'll still be able to hit Ctrl-A and re-enable it later; the setup prompt still comes up even if you "disable" BIOS. If this is the case, try other versions of the MB and SCSI BIOS. Or just leave the BIOS disabled. As you please. Good luck, A "Gonna try LinuxBIOS" B From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 17:27:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:27:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X In-Reply-To: References: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Aaron Burt wrote: > That's yer problem right there. Text tooks terrible in anything other > than the native resolution on an LCD. Aaron, OK. I've never noticed this on my notebooks, but I sure see it on the big monitor. > I'll bet X is refusing to come up in 1280x1024 for some reason. Check > your HorizSync and VertRefresh against the manual's specs for those > ranges. Mine are at 30-90 and 50-150 respectively. When I press the menu botton it tells me the horizontal frequency is 48.3 KHz and the vertical refresh is 60 Hz, at 1024x768 (this while I'm at a console). In the monitor section of /etc/X11/XF86Config, the HorizSync is set for 31.5-50 KHz and the VertRefresh is set to 40-90. So that should cover it. > For God's sake, don't forget to send in the rebate form. There wasn't a rebate on this puppy, just an in-store sale price. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 17:30:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:30:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Colors in the 'ls' output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > alias ls='ls --color=if-tty -aF' I tried changing the 'tty' to 'all'. Didn't like it. I don't see to what other 'tty/all' the man page might be referring. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From david.fleck at mchsi.com Sun Feb 29 17:36:01 2004 From: david.fleck at mchsi.com (David Fleck) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:36:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Colors in the 'ls' output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040229193400.K59888@grond.sourballs.org> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > According to the /etc/DIR_COLORS file, the color command can take one of > two options: tty for the terminal in which the listing is displayed or all > for all listings. > > However, when I change the alias in ~/.bash_profile to 'all', the system > tells me that it's not an allowed option. Has anyone a clue how to make this > work? just out of curiosity, does 'always' work? -- David Fleck david.fleck at mchsi.com From aaron at speakeasy.org Sun Feb 29 17:38:02 2004 From: aaron at speakeasy.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:38:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More cdrecord problems References: Message-ID: "Vincent Yau" wrote: > The wav file is ok as I can play it back on my RH9 box. When I do a file > on it, it does report as a valid wav file. > > cdrecord, however, complains that it has inappropriate audio coding. > I have included output below. Any tips much appreciated.... > [root at localhost local]# file /usr/local/smallmen8.wav > /usr/local/smallmen8.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft > PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44101 Hz OK, that's kinda weird ---^ Maybe you can set the value to exactly 44100 in a sound editor or with "sox -r 44100 smallmen8.wav smallmen8a.wav". From aaron at speakeasy.org Sun Feb 29 17:55:02 2004 From: aaron at speakeasy.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:55:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X References: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> Message-ID: Rich Shepard wrote: > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Aaron Burt wrote: > >> That's yer problem right there. Text tooks terrible in anything other >> than the native resolution on an LCD. > > Aaron, > > OK. I've never noticed this on my notebooks, but I sure see it on the big > monitor. I'm kinda surprised. But yeah, it makes a bigger difference on a bigger screen. >> I'll bet X is refusing to come up in 1280x1024 for some reason. Check >> your HorizSync and VertRefresh against the manual's specs for those >> ranges. Mine are at 30-90 and 50-150 respectively. > > When I press the menu botton it tells me the horizontal frequency is 48.3 > KHz and the vertical refresh is 60 Hz, at 1024x768 (this while I'm at a > console). > > In the monitor section of /etc/X11/XF86Config, the HorizSync is set for > 31.5-50 KHz and the VertRefresh is set to 40-90. So that should cover it. Sounds like your HorizSync needs to be higher to do 1280x1024. To do 1280x1024 at 60Hz vertical, you'd need a horizontal sync rate of around 65 kHz, but yours is limited to 50 kHz. Your monitor's manual should say what the minimum and maximum H and V sync rates are, but it should be safe with the numbers I gave. >> For God's sake, don't forget to send in the rebate form. > > There wasn't a rebate on this puppy, just an in-store sale price. Ah, lucky you. Sorry I forgot the smiley--rebate amnesia is a common and expensive problem 'round here. From russj at dimstar.net Sun Feb 29 17:56:02 2004 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 29 17:56:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Multiple network connections on a laptop Message-ID: <40429803.1040201@dimstar.net> OK, I finally have a good setup working with my laptop. Mandrake 9.2 with a 2.6.3 kernel. It runs sweetly. Now.. my problem. The built in nic is eth0, the wireless card comes up as eth1. Both work, but when I don't plug in a cable, it takes forever to boot because eth0 has to timeout. Should I just assign an ip to get rid of the wait? If I have the wireless card in, it still tries to use eth0 as the default gateway, even when eth0 doesn't have a connection. I end up setting up a lot of the networking manually every time I boot my laptop. Is there a good reference anywhere that I can use on how to set this up to be a little more seemless? -- Russ Johnson Dimension 7/Stargate Online http://www.dimstar.net Top post? http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html Random thought #19 (Collect all 22) "People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs." - Unknown From jeme at brelin.net Sun Feb 29 18:01:02 2004 From: jeme at brelin.net (Jeme A Brelin) Date: Sun Feb 29 18:01:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Colors in the 'ls' output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > > > alias ls='ls --color=if-tty -aF' > > I tried changing the 'tty' to 'all'. Didn't like it. I don't see to > what other 'tty/all' the man page might be referring. What manpage is this? >From my ls manpage: --color[=WHEN] control whether color is used to distinguish file types. WHEN may be `never', `always', or `auto' and later: By default, color is not used to distinguish types of files. That is equivalent to using --color=none. Using the --color option without the optional WHEN argument is equivalent to using --color=always. With --color=auto, color codes are output only if standard output is con nected to a terminal (tty). So it looks like if-tty has been deprecated, but still works and is equivalent to "auto". I don't know where you're getting "all". J. -- ----------------- Jeme A Brelin jeme at brelin.net ----------------- [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org From v_yau3 at hotmail.com Sun Feb 29 18:06:01 2004 From: v_yau3 at hotmail.com (Vincent Yau) Date: Sun Feb 29 18:06:01 2004 Subject: [PLUG] More cdrecord problems Message-ID: I just did it and it works... Most places said the correct wav format is 44.1 KHZ and 16 Bit so I thought I was ok. Did not know 44101 Hz and 44100 Hz makes a difference. thanks! >From: Aaron Burt >Reply-To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org >To: PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >Subject: Re: [PLUG] More cdrecord problems >Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 01:39:27 +0000 (UTC) > >"Vincent Yau" wrote: > > The wav file is ok as I can play it back on my RH9 box. When I do a >file > > on it, it does report as a valid wav file. > > > > cdrecord, however, complains that it has inappropriate audio coding. > > I have included output below. Any tips much appreciated.... > > > [root at localhost local]# file /usr/local/smallmen8.wav > > /usr/local/smallmen8.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, >Microsoft > > PCM, 16 bit, stereo 44101 Hz >OK, that's kinda weird ---^ > >Maybe you can set the value to exactly 44100 in a sound editor or with >"sox -r 44100 smallmen8.wav smallmen8a.wav". > >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ From miken at hotsushi.com Sun Feb 29 18:16:02 2004 From: miken at hotsushi.com (Mike Neal) Date: Sun Feb 29 18:16:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Multiple network connections on a laptop In-Reply-To: <40429803.1040201@dimstar.net> Message-ID: >The built in nic is eth0, the wireless card comes up as eth1. Both work, >but when I don't plug in a cable, it takes forever to boot because eth0 >has to timeout. Should I just assign an ip to get rid of the wait? Our eth0 is set at 10.10.10.10 for the home network so there's no boot delay when it's on a dhcp network. Then, running dhclient gets proper settings from the dhcp server. Cheers, Mike From athlonrob at axpr.net Sun Feb 29 18:22:02 2004 From: athlonrob at axpr.net (AthlonRob) Date: Sun Feb 29 18:22:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Multiple network connections on a laptop In-Reply-To: <40429803.1040201@dimstar.net> References: <40429803.1040201@dimstar.net> Message-ID: <200402291821.16490.athlonrob@axpr.net> On Sunday 29 February 2004 17:55, Russ Johnson wrote: > OK, I finally have a good setup working with my laptop. Mandrake 9.2 > with a 2.6.3 kernel. It runs sweetly. Cool. I've been happy with 2.6.3 so far, for the most part. > Now.. my problem. > > The built in nic is eth0, the wireless card comes up as eth1. Both work, > but when I don't plug in a cable, it takes forever to boot because eth0 > has to timeout. Should I just assign an ip to get rid of the wait? > > If I have the wireless card in, it still tries to use eth0 as the > default gateway, even when eth0 doesn't have a connection. I end up > setting up a lot of the networking manually every time I boot my laptop. > > Is there a good reference anywhere that I can use on how to set this up > to be a little more seemless? Bridge the wireless and the wired connections into br0 and use dhcp to assign an address to that. That way, whichever is active will work. I haven't a clue how to hack the Mandrake init scripts to do that, however. I could do it very easily in Slackware, though. :-) Rob From griffint at pobox.com Sun Feb 29 18:26:02 2004 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Sun Feb 29 18:26:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Multiple network connections on a laptop In-Reply-To: <40429803.1040201@dimstar.net> References: <40429803.1040201@dimstar.net> Message-ID: <200402291825.10156.griffint@pobox.com> On Sunday 29 February 2004 5:55 pm, Russ Johnson wrote: > OK, I finally have a good setup working with my laptop. Mandrake 9.2 > with a 2.6.3 kernel. It runs sweetly. > > Now.. my problem. > > The built in nic is eth0, the wireless card comes up as eth1. Both work, > but when I don't plug in a cable, it takes forever to boot because eth0 > has to timeout. Should I just assign an ip to get rid of the wait? > > If I have the wireless card in, it still tries to use eth0 as the > default gateway, even when eth0 doesn't have a connection. I end up > setting up a lot of the networking manually every time I boot my laptop. > > Is there a good reference anywhere that I can use on how to set this up > to be a little more seemless? Somewere I saw an announcement for some piece of software that monitors a NIC for a cable being plugged or unplugged, and then performs some defined action when one of these events happen. It was specifically designed laptops with your sort of situation. I don't remember the project name but you could probably find it by poking around on freshmeat. So if you can find this software, I'd suggest configuring eth0 to not initialize on boot and have this other piece of software take care of bringing up the interface, but only if it finds that a cable is actually plugged in. The other option would be to modify the startup script to do interface initialization in the background so it won't block the boot sequence. This is how Knoppix deals with it. Terry From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 19:08:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 19:08:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X In-Reply-To: References: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Aaron Burt wrote: > Sounds like your HorizSync needs to be higher to do 1280x1024. To do > 1280x1024 at 60Hz vertical, you'd need a horizontal sync rate of > around 65 kHz, but yours is limited to 50 kHz. Your monitor's manual > should say what the minimum and maximum H and V sync rates are, but it > should be safe with the numbers I gave. I don't have a manual for this monitor. It may have had a winduhs cdrom, but I have nothing in the way of documentation either in the box or in the package with everything from the system I assembled. When I went searching on the Web I found all of four references to a Hyundai ImageQuest L705 monitor. Sigh. Just tried your settings. When I tried to startx I see "Video mode not supported". Interesting, eh? That's the mode on their box. Cut back the frequencies, but it's not that. Wonder what the next mode higher than 1024x768 is. I'll search for that tomorrow after doing payables and receivables. Thanks, Aaron, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 19:14:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 19:14:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Font display on LCD monitor with X In-Reply-To: References: <200402291320.17678.athlonrob@axpr.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Rich Shepard wrote: > Just tried your settings. When I tried to startx I see "Video mode not > supported". Interesting, eh? That's the mode on their box. Cut back the > frequencies, but it's not that. Wonder what the next mode higher than > 1024x768 is. I'll search for that tomorrow after doing payables and > receivables. Oops! I don't have the video card (an ATI Sapphire) defined in there. Sigh. That'll do it, I bet. Should be able to run Xconfigurator, no? Well, more tomorrow. Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 19:19:02 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 19:19:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Colors in the 'ls' output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, Jeme A Brelin wrote: > What manpage is this? Ah! Mea culpa. It's in the second paragraph of /etc/DIR_COLORS, but immediately following that paragraph is the command COLOR to which it refers. Changing that from 'tty' to 'all' does the trick. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Feb 29 19:20:04 2004 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun Feb 29 19:20:04 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Colors in the 'ls' output In-Reply-To: <20040229193400.K59888@grond.sourballs.org> References: <20040229193400.K59888@grond.sourballs.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, David Fleck wrote: > just out of curiosity, does 'always' work? David, I suppose it would. However, I mis-wrote 'man page' when I meant to refer to /etc/DIR_COLORS itself. Making the change there does what I want: color in a secondary shell listing. Thanks, Rich -- Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) From m at phxlinux.org Sun Feb 29 19:52:02 2004 From: m at phxlinux.org (Matt Alexander) Date: Sun Feb 29 19:52:02 2004 Subject: [PLUG] Samba troubles Message-ID: I'm trying to setup would should be a fairly simple Samba configuration for someone. They have a dual-boot server with Windows Server 2003 and RH 9. There's a FAT32 partition that is mounted read/write for the world on the Linux side. I then want to share this out on the network. Here's my smb.conf: [global] workgroup = somecompanyworkgroup security = share [Public] path = /mnt/e/Public read only = no guest only = yes Pretty simple... and it works great when I test it on my home network. But when a Win2K client on their network tries to access the Samba server, this message is given: "There are currently no logon servers available to service the logon request." Any ideas? Thanks, ~M