From john_re at fastmail.us Sat Nov 1 08:20:27 2008 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 08:20:27 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] BerkeleyTIP-Global Today Nov 1 New Videos. IRC VOIP Online 11A-6P Pacific= 2P-9P Eastern Message-ID: <1225552827.31486.1282443795@webmail.messagingengine.com> Join with the global GNU(Linux) BSD FreeSW monthly meeting. - Online from your home or anywhere, by yourself or with friends - Use IRC & a microphone & headset for VOIP (see below) == Great new VIDEOS - See BTG page for times DebConf - Welcome talk - introductory session DebConf - Debian - 15 years and counting Akedemy - The KDE e.V.: Foundation for the Community SciPy - Scientific computing Python workshop - Intro Linux - Kexec/Kdump: Managing Linux crash dumps DISCUSSION: New: UBUNTU 8.10, Kubuntu w/ KDE4, OPEN OFFICE 3 PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP conferencing. == BerkeleyTIP-Global meets Nov 1 Saturday 11AM-6PM PDST TIP = Talks, Installfest, ProgrammingParty Topics: FreeSW GNU(Linux) BSD Distros Programming DBs Internet Hardware Applications Join us online from home, or anywhere - IRC Freenode #BerkeleyTIP & using VOIP, Ekiga - (under development) == See the Google Groups for the latest details: http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal ================================================= CONTENTS: 1) MEETING Nov 1 Sat 11A-6P PDST - Global 2) Join ONLINE using IRC & maybe VOIP-Ekiga 3) VIDEOS - Get them here 4) PROGRAMMING PARTY - VOIP conferencing 5) DISCUSSION: New UBUNTU 8.10, Kubuntu w/ KDE4, OPEN OFFICE 3 ================================================= 1) Meeting Nov 1 Sat 11A-6P PDST - Online everywhere Global Online meeting starts during 11AM PDST, IRC up by 12N ADJUST FOR YOUR TIME ZONE: Ex: EDST 3P = PDST 12N See the Google Groups for the hourly schedule. 2) Join Online using IRC & maybe VOIP-Ekiga Join us online IRC Freenode #BerkeleyTIP & using VOIP, Ekiga - (under development) VOIP-Ekiga - Get your own VOIP client working Ekiga - do a loopback test with mic & headset http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/irc-voip 3) Videos - Get them here http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/videos 4) Programming Party - VOIP conferencing Work on getting VOIP conferencing going Get your own VOIP client working http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Fun_Numbers Work on getting a conference call going. 5) DISCUSSION: New UBUNTU 8.10, Kubuntu w/ KDE4, OPEN OFFICE 3 See you online. :) From m0gely at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 11:57:43 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 11:57:43 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Cognet being lame to Sprint Message-ID: <490CA6A7.7030108@gmail.com> Anyone using SpiritOne or Aracnet here will currently be unable to get to any site hosted on Sprint's network, and anyone on their network will be unable to get to us (Cognet). I have one customer that can't get to me. This sucks. -- - m0gely From m0gely at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 12:00:15 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 12:00:15 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Cognet being lame to Sprint In-Reply-To: <490CA6A7.7030108@gmail.com> References: <490CA6A7.7030108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <490CA73F.3060607@gmail.com> Cogent. Sorry. Hyper right index finger. :) -- - m0gely From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Nov 1 13:24:49 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 13:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PLUG] Cognet being lame to Sprint In-Reply-To: <490CA6A7.7030108@gmail.com> References: <490CA6A7.7030108@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Nov 2008, m0gely wrote: > Anyone using SpiritOne or Aracnet I've been an Aracnet customer since 1 June 1999. What games are being played by Sprint? Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From m0gely at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 14:15:16 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:15:16 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Cognet being lame to Sprint In-Reply-To: References: <490CA6A7.7030108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <490CC6E4.1020500@gmail.com> Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sat, 1 Nov 2008, m0gely wrote: > >> Anyone using SpiritOne or Aracnet > > I've been an Aracnet customer since 1 June 1999. What games are being > played by Sprint? > > Rich > I'm thinking the problem is more Cogent. http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/31/0439245 http://www.internetpulse.net/ SpiritOne/Aracnet get their IP from Cogent. Try going to Sprint.com. I have relatives in Molalla that can't check their email on my server here. Molalla.net goes through Sprint. It's a frigg'n mess. The internet just got sliced up. -- - m0gely From vyau5678 at gmail.com Sat Nov 1 14:57:04 2008 From: vyau5678 at gmail.com (VY) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 14:57:04 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Wireshark help In-Reply-To: <019C4002BF8B426F8881DEF28F51BC7E@RAMA> References: <4a0b36aa0810311057u1544b995k363898cd5d39a756@mail.gmail.com> <019C4002BF8B426F8881DEF28F51BC7E@RAMA> Message-ID: <4a0b36aa0811011457w13b0ef67hc41314eb2be125d9@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the replies. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 3:08 PM, William A Morita wrote: > Vincent, > > If you are plugged into a switch, you are wasting your time. > (Unless your switch is one with either a special port or specially > configurable) > If you have your network on a hub, you will be able to see the LAN traffic. > > - Bill Morita > wamorita at hevanet.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of VY > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 10:57 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: [PLUG] Wireshark help > > Hi: > > I have launched wireshark on my Linux box and trying to capture and analyze > network traffic. > What I want is not to analyze the Linux box to/from network traffic but > analyze other box(es) on the network and their traffic to/from the outside > world as well as to/from the linux box. > > So far, all I could capture is to/from the Linux host to/from any boxes on > my network but fail to capture any traffic out of other boxes to other > hosts. > > Does anyone know the right filter rules for doing that? > A few years ago, i was able to do that with ettercap when Wireshark was > still known as Ethereal but things have been re-arranged and I don't see to > find the docs for describing that. > > Thanks > > --Vincent > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 2 14:30:54 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (robinson-west user) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 14:30:54 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Network card stops... Message-ID: <1225665054.12149.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> I have a network card in my server that keeps stopping cold. If I unplug the network cable to this FA311 Netgear card and plug it back in, the link stays up for a while. The only errors I see so far in the syslog are bind error messages that the link is down. The mobo has an AMI bios and is a VIA Aspen II I believe. The processor is an Athlon 800. I can't plug/unplug the cable all the time to get it back up. Anyone know of a specific issue for this motherboard? I looked in the bios to see if I can reassign the interrupt etcetera, but there were no options to do that. Michael Robinson From linux-yug at xprt.net Sun Nov 2 18:39:39 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:39:39 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Network card stops... In-Reply-To: <1225665054.12149.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1225665054.12149.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1225679979.7072.13.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 14:30 -0800, robinson-west user wrote: > I have a network card in my server that keeps stopping cold. If I > unplug the network cable to this FA311 Netgear card and plug it back > in, the link stays up for a while. The only errors I see so far in > the syslog are bind error messages that the link is down. The > mobo has an AMI bios and is a VIA Aspen II I believe. The > processor is an Athlon 800. I can't plug/unplug the cable all the > time to get it back up. Anyone know of a specific issue for this > motherboard? I looked in the bios to see if I can reassign the > interrupt etcetera, but there were no options to do that. > > Michael Robinson > Does it come back up on a card shutdown? If so just write a cron/script to shutdown and restart the card every so often.. Or can you just replace the card?? HTH Linux-yug.. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 18:52:28 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 18:52:28 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Linguistics again Message-ID: <20081102185228.e8e0cf4f.johnxj@comcast.net> At the risk of making everyone sick of me, I need to ask for a small favor. I am taking a class this term where I have been given a project to survey random Portlanders for their opinion of how Portlanders talk. This is just an opinion survey; there are no right or wrong answers. I am after the opinions of anyone who lives in Portland metro, or used to. There are three simple questions, to be answered yes or no. (The data needs to be binary.) You are free to make additional comments about the questions, as long as you come to a "yes" or a "no." This might mean you have to decide which predominates. This survey is actually expanding a study I did in January, 2007. So if, by chance, these questions look familiar I may already have your opinions, in which case please do not respond again. Here are the questions: 1) Is there a way of talking in Portland that's different from other areas in the US? 2) Do you think people in Portland speak correctly? 3) Do you like the way people in Portland speak? Plus I need a small amount of demographic data: What is your first language? What is your gender? What city did you go to high school in?* What is your year of birth? What is your ethnicity (e.g., Asian-American, European-American etc.)? What is your occupation ("computer tech" is adequate). *If more than one city, list the one in which you spent the most time. And since your answers are a bit personal, you should respond off-list, because anything on the list is archived and available to anyone on the net. All responses will be converted to anonymous data records and the e-mails will be deleted. I need to collect about 80 responses, so if there are other adults in your presence as you reply, feel free to add their comments and demographics as well. Thanks in advance! From johnxj at comcast.net Sun Nov 2 19:32:37 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 19:32:37 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Linguistics again In-Reply-To: <20081102185228.e8e0cf4f.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081102185228.e8e0cf4f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081102193237.c6ff06de.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 18:52:28 -0800 John Jason Jordan dijo: Dammit, I could swear that the address bar said PLUG-TALK, not PLUG. Sorry for the error. From bderrly at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 20:27:57 2008 From: bderrly at gmail.com (Brian Derr) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:27:57 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Linguistics again In-Reply-To: <20081102185228.e8e0cf4f.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081102185228.e8e0cf4f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <94f030a10811022027h549afe75i3aa7359e3fd3c438@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:52 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > At the risk of making everyone sick of me, I need to ask for a small > favor. > > I am taking a class this term where I have been given a project to > survey random Portlanders for their opinion of how Portlanders talk. > This is just an opinion survey; there are no right or wrong answers. I > am after the opinions of anyone who lives in Portland metro, or used > to. There are three simple questions, to be answered yes or no. (The > data needs to be binary.) You are free to make additional comments > about the questions, as long as you come to a "yes" or a "no." This > might mean you have to decide which predominates. > > This survey is actually expanding a study I did in January, 2007. So > if, by chance, these questions look familiar I may already have your > opinions, in which case please do not respond again. > > Here are the questions: > > 1) Is there a way of talking in Portland that's different from other > areas in the US? Yes Yes > > > 2) Do you think people in Portland speak correctly? Yes ("correctly" is a funny way of saying it, but it is true. ;) Yes > > > 3) Do you like the way people in Portland speak? Yes Yes > > > Plus I need a small amount of demographic data: > > What is your first language? English English > > What is your gender? Male Female > > What city did you go to high school in?* Tigard Tigard > > What is your year of birth? 1982 1982 > > What is your ethnicity (e.g., Asian-American, European-American etc.)? Euro-American Euro-American > > What is your occupation ("computer tech" is adequate). Computer tech Housewife > > > *If more than one city, list the one in which you spent the most time. > > And since your answers are a bit personal, you should respond off-list, > because anything on the list is archived and available to anyone on the > net. All responses will be converted to anonymous data records and the > e-mails will be deleted. > > I need to collect about 80 responses, so if there are other adults in > your presence as you reply, feel free to add their comments and > demographics as well. > > Thanks in advance! > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From bderrly at gmail.com Sun Nov 2 20:29:02 2008 From: bderrly at gmail.com (Brian Derr) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:29:02 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Linguistics again In-Reply-To: <94f030a10811022027h549afe75i3aa7359e3fd3c438@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081102185228.e8e0cf4f.johnxj@comcast.net> <94f030a10811022027h549afe75i3aa7359e3fd3c438@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94f030a10811022029x66c28e20s38b2494fe7314354@mail.gmail.com> And apparently hitting "reply" doesn't reply to the sender these days.... :( I guess I should look in the address bar before sending. Carry on. On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Brian Derr wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 6:52 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > >> At the risk of making everyone sick of me, I need to ask for a small >> favor. >> >> I am taking a class this term where I have been given a project to >> survey random Portlanders for their opinion of how Portlanders talk. >> This is just an opinion survey; there are no right or wrong answers. I >> am after the opinions of anyone who lives in Portland metro, or used >> to. There are three simple questions, to be answered yes or no. (The >> data needs to be binary.) You are free to make additional comments >> about the questions, as long as you come to a "yes" or a "no." This >> might mean you have to decide which predominates. >> >> This survey is actually expanding a study I did in January, 2007. So >> if, by chance, these questions look familiar I may already have your >> opinions, in which case please do not respond again. >> >> Here are the questions: >> >> 1) Is there a way of talking in Portland that's different from other >> areas in the US? > > > Yes > Yes > >> >> >> 2) Do you think people in Portland speak correctly? > > > Yes ("correctly" is a funny way of saying it, but it is true. ;) > Yes > >> >> >> 3) Do you like the way people in Portland speak? > > > Yes > Yes > >> >> >> Plus I need a small amount of demographic data: >> >> What is your first language? > > > English > English > >> >> What is your gender? > > > Male > Female > >> >> What city did you go to high school in?* > > > Tigard > Tigard > >> >> What is your year of birth? > > > 1982 > 1982 > >> >> What is your ethnicity (e.g., Asian-American, European-American etc.)? > > > Euro-American > Euro-American > >> >> What is your occupation ("computer tech" is adequate). > > > Computer tech > Housewife > >> >> >> *If more than one city, list the one in which you spent the most time. >> >> And since your answers are a bit personal, you should respond off-list, >> because anything on the list is archived and available to anyone on the >> net. All responses will be converted to anonymous data records and the >> e-mails will be deleted. >> >> I need to collect about 80 responses, so if there are other adults in >> your presence as you reply, feel free to add their comments and >> demographics as well. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> _______________________________________________ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> > > From dmandel at pdxlinux.org Mon Nov 3 01:09:10 2008 From: dmandel at pdxlinux.org (David Mandel) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:09:10 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] ANNOUNCEMENT: November PLUG Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT The Portland Linux/Unix Group will meet 7 PM Thursday Nov 6, 2008 at Portland State University in the Fariborz Maseeh College of Engineering & Computer Science Building Room FAB 86-01 (This is in the basement.) The building is on SW 4th across from SW College Street. See location H-10 on map at http://pdxLinux.org/campus_map.jpg ******************************************************************* PRESENTATION LANs, iptables, routing and more by Kirk Harr ******************************************************************* Agenda: 7:00 - 7:30 Business We will discuss the status of our ongoing projects including PLUG's monthly Advanced Topics meetings, PLUG's monthly hands on clinics, PLUG for Education, etc. 7:30 - 8:30 Presentation See above 9:00 - ... Beer Jax Bar And Restaurant 826 SW 2nd Avenue Portland (Note: We no longer use the Lucky Lab.) David Mandel Chief Activist Portland Linux/Unix Group 560 SE Alexander Corvallis, Oregon 97333 (541) 730-5285 mobile dmandel at pdxLinux.org P.S. The Mid Willamette Valley Linux Users Group meets every month. They are currently meeting at 6:00 PM on the third Wednesday of the month at the Corvallis Chamber of Commerce in Corvallis. As of May 2008, the Mid Willamette Valley Linux Users Group was under reconstruction. Once this is done see http://www.lug.corvallis.or.us/ for details. P.S. The Eugene Linux Users Group meets several times a month. See http://www.euglug.org for details. ====================================================================== David Mandel http://www.DavidMandel.com Portland Linux/Unix Group http://pdxLinux.org LinuxFund http://LinuxFund.org ====================================================================== From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Mon Nov 3 20:50:21 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:50:21 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] two eshells Message-ID: I have seen this done, but I cannot remember how to do it. How do you open two eshells in gnu emacs? Carlos From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Mon Nov 3 20:53:05 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:53:05 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] two eshells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Nov 2008, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:50:21 -0700 (MST) > From: Carlos Konstanski > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: Portland Linux Users Group > Subject: [PLUG] two eshells > > I have seen this done, but I cannot remember how to do it. How do you > open two eshells in gnu emacs? > > Carlos Don't even bother answering. It seems that rename-buffer is the ticket. Carlos From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Nov 3 21:41:44 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:41:44 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] $5 USB to wired ethernet adapter at Frys Message-ID: <20081104054144.GA25800@gate.kl-ic.com> In a remarkable lapse of judgement, combined with undeserved luck, I purchased an Airlink ASOHOUSB USB2 to Ethernet adapter at Fry's today for $5. It uses the ASIX 88772 chip, USB ID 0b95:7720 . After patching the asix.ko kernel driver in my 2.6.18 kernel, it works! Months ago, I added a 3rd ethernet port to the old laptop that I use for a firewall by adding a 3Com 3C460B 10/100 Ethernet to USB adapter. That turned out to be plug-and-play ... or almost, I wanted to enforce a particular eth0/eth1/eth2 order, so some tweaking was required. Then I found a couple of used Farallon USB to Ethernet adapters in the "random USB cables" box at Free Geek. Those work, too. Fascinating. With a USB hub, I can add LOTS of USB/Ethernet addresses to my firewall. So when I saw the Airlink $15 device on sale for $5, I thought I would buy it and try it. It didn't work the first time. The driver loaded automagically, but no packets. After finding patch instructions for my pre 2.6.20 kernel: http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0701.0/1458.html ... and recompiling that module, it works! So at least one impulse buy at Frys turned out ok. A not-so-lucky buy in my next posting ... Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Nov 3 22:10:03 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 22:10:03 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] A not-quite-usable $20 SAN disk enclosure at Frys Message-ID: <20081104061003.GB25800@gate.kl-ic.com> My second impulse buy today at Frys was a Netgear/Zetera SC101 Network Storage enclosure, on sale for $20. Not so successful this time, but if somebody brings a Win2K or WinVista laptop (dual boot?) to the clinic in December, we might be able to configure it for Linux use. It is a nice little toaster-sized box. It holds two IDE 3.5 inch drives. With the right software on one or two of our laptops, we could use it to serve distros at the Clinic. Sadly, it will only configure and partition with Windoze software (why not a web interface? twits!) I can load the Netgear configuration software onto the Win2K VMware image on my laptop, but the software will only find storage on the same LAN segment. My VMware image is configured for host-only bridged networking, on a separate virtual LAN segment from the physical LAN segment that the SC101 is on. Hence, the Netgear install software can't find the SC101 to configure it. I suppose I could build a second VMware image to use the other kind of networking (where it makes a virtual connection to the outside LAN), but instead I'll just wait for the December Clinic ( I will be out of town during the November 16 Clinic ) and perhaps someone will bring a dual-boot machine and we can set up the SC101 with that. If we can get the SC101 configured, we can use this software: http://code.google.com/p/sc101-nbd/ ... which is a user-space driver that will connect to the SC101 . With two of the $100 750GB Seagate drives installed and formatted, any laptop with the driver will be able to pull files off the SC101 over the ethernet. Thus, we will not be dependent on one particular laptop to act as a repository mirror. So that may have been a poor use of $20, but hey, all the other NAS and SAN enclosures were $200 and probably would work no better. If someone else wants to borrow this box and set it up before December, let me know and I will bring it to one of the meetings this month. Or perhaps I should find that unused Win2K hard drive that shipped with this laptop and swap it in and configure the drive that way. Naahh, that would leave me (and my laptop) feeling *unclean.* Icky. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From drew.wymore at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 23:16:07 2008 From: drew.wymore at gmail.com (drew wymore) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 23:16:07 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] A not-quite-usable $20 SAN disk enclosure at Frys In-Reply-To: <20081104061003.GB25800@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081104061003.GB25800@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: I have this exact enclosure Keith. If you upgrade the firmware to gain Vista support you won't be able to use the open source driver anymore as it was firmware dependent. FWIW the transfer rate is not very good for large files. Smaller files it doesn't have so much trouble with. Drew On 11/3/08, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > My second impulse buy today at Frys was a Netgear/Zetera SC101 > Network Storage enclosure, on sale for $20. Not so successful > this time, but if somebody brings a Win2K or WinVista laptop > (dual boot?) to the clinic in December, we might be able to > configure it for Linux use. > > It is a nice little toaster-sized box. It holds two IDE 3.5 inch > drives. With the right software on one or two of our laptops, > we could use it to serve distros at the Clinic. > > Sadly, it will only configure and partition with Windoze software > (why not a web interface? twits!) I can load the Netgear > configuration software onto the Win2K VMware image on my laptop, > but the software will only find storage on the same LAN segment. > My VMware image is configured for host-only bridged networking, > on a separate virtual LAN segment from the physical LAN segment > that the SC101 is on. Hence, the Netgear install software can't > find the SC101 to configure it. > > I suppose I could build a second VMware image to use the other kind > of networking (where it makes a virtual connection to the outside > LAN), but instead I'll just wait for the December Clinic ( I will > be out of town during the November 16 Clinic ) and perhaps someone > will bring a dual-boot machine and we can set up the SC101 with that. > > If we can get the SC101 configured, we can use this software: > > http://code.google.com/p/sc101-nbd/ > > ... which is a user-space driver that will connect to the SC101 . > With two of the $100 750GB Seagate drives installed and formatted, > any laptop with the driver will be able to pull files off the SC101 > over the ethernet. Thus, we will not be dependent on one particular > laptop to act as a repository mirror. > > So that may have been a poor use of $20, but hey, all the other NAS > and SAN enclosures were $200 and probably would work no better. If > someone else wants to borrow this box and set it up before December, > let me know and I will bring it to one of the meetings this month. > > Or perhaps I should find that unused Win2K hard drive that shipped > with this laptop and swap it in and configure the drive that way. > Naahh, that would leave me (and my laptop) feeling *unclean.* Icky. > > Keith > > -- > Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 > KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" > Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- Sent from my mobile device From wamorita at hevanet.com Tue Nov 4 19:18:09 2008 From: wamorita at hevanet.com (William A Morita) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:18:09 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] two eshells In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52D8D820DB3F46CC931A2CCA183A41A4@RAMA> Carlos You have to rename the "buffer" the shell is in. You can do this by writing the buffer to a file ^x^s . Name is something like "shellone". You should then be able to open a new eshell (M-x shell). - Bill Morita wamorita at hevanet.com Home: (503) 697-6994 Cell: (503) 260-3876 -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Konstanski Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:50 PM To: Portland Linux Users Group Subject: [PLUG] two eshells I have seen this done, but I cannot remember how to do it. How do you open two eshells in gnu emacs? Carlos _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Tue Nov 4 20:33:54 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 21:33:54 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] two eshells In-Reply-To: <52D8D820DB3F46CC931A2CCA183A41A4@RAMA> References: <52D8D820DB3F46CC931A2CCA183A41A4@RAMA> Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, William A Morita wrote: > Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 19:18:09 -0800 > From: William A Morita > To: "'General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic'" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] two eshells > > Carlos > > You have to rename the "buffer" the shell is in. > You can do this by writing the buffer to a file ^x^s . > Name is something like "shellone". > You should then be able to open a new eshell (M-x shell). > > - Bill Morita > > wamorita at hevanet.com > Home: (503) 697-6994 > Cell: (503) 260-3876 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Konstanski > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:50 PM > To: Portland Linux Users Group > Subject: [PLUG] two eshells > > I have seen this done, but I cannot remember how to do it. How do you open > two eshells in gnu emacs? > > Carlos I found an even easier way, one that does not involve writing a file. I open the first eshell, then use M-x rename-buffer, and give the buffer a new name. I tend to use *eshell-1*. Then I can open another eshell with M-x eshell like normal. Your approach is similar; you are causing the buffer to be renamed, which is the critical piece. But I might check out some more elegant approaches, like this one, which supports having multiple eshells on a ring: http://www.cims.nyu.edu/~stucchio/software/elisp/multi-eshell.el.html Carlos From merlyn at stonehenge.com Wed Nov 5 00:35:40 2008 From: merlyn at stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:35:40 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] two eshells References: <52D8D820DB3F46CC931A2CCA183A41A4@RAMA> Message-ID: <86zlke7eoz.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> >>>>> "Carlos" == Carlos Konstanski writes: Carlos> I found an even easier way, one that does not involve writing a file. Carlos> I open the first eshell, then use M-x rename-buffer, and give the Carlos> buffer a new name. I tend to use *eshell-1*. Then I can open another Carlos> eshell with M-x eshell like normal. Your approach is similar; you are Carlos> causing the buffer to be renamed, which is the critical piece. I frequently use M-x rename-uniquely for this sort of stuff. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 08:44:39 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:44:39 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo Message-ID: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Hardy x86_64, more or less up to date. This morning Update Manager launched fine and displayed 10 updates. I clicked on the button to install the upgrades. Normally this pops up a window asking for the root password. This time it did not. Update Manager searched for a bit, then did nothing. I can also do updates with Synaptic, so I closed Update Manager and launched Synaptic. That is, I tried to launch it, but nothing happened. It would not launch. Now, Update Manager uses code in common with Synaptic, so clearly whatever was wrong with Update Manager is also affecting Synaptic. Being a clever little Linux dude I opened a terminal and typed "sudo synaptic" to see what kind of error messages I got. And sure enough, I got an error message: jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo synaptic sudo: must be setuid root jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su sudo: must be setuid root So I googled on "must be setuid root" and found a thread in the Ubuntu forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=219767 It turns out that the problem listed in the thread is exactly what happened. A few days ago I needed a graphic located in /usr and I couldn't get it into the Gimp in anything but read-only mode. The graphic came as part of the openclipart package that I installed a long time ago with Synaptic. I have no idea why the package installed the graphics into /usr with root ownership instead of into ~/. The part I did wrong was that I took ownership of the whole /usr folder instead of just the /usr/share/openclipart folder. That broke sudo. Fortunately I am not the first Ubuntuoid to do this, and the forum thread gives instructions for how to fix it. However, the instructions are not working: jjj at Devil7:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/sudo -rwxr-xr-x 2 jjj jjj 122688 2008-09-10 12:42 /usr/bin/sudo jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /usr/bin/sudo #note that this operation worked jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su sudo: must be setuid root jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 0440 /etc/sudoers chmod: changing permissions of `/etc/sudoers': Operation not permitted jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su sudo: must be setuid root jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /bin/su chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/su': Operation not permitted OK, not such a clever little Linux dude after all. The computer continues to run just fine, but I have no access to sudo. Before I mess things up even more I thought I'd ask here for help from someone who understands permissions and ownership better than me. From plug at the-wes.com Wed Nov 5 08:57:03 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:57:03 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 9:44 AM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Hardy x86_64, more or less up to date. > > This morning Update Manager launched fine and displayed 10 updates. I > clicked on the button to install the upgrades. Normally this pops up a > window asking for the root password. This time it did not. Update > Manager searched for a bit, then did nothing. > > I can also do updates with Synaptic, so I closed Update Manager and > launched Synaptic. That is, I tried to launch it, but nothing happened. > It would not launch. Now, Update Manager uses code in common with > Synaptic, so clearly whatever was wrong with Update Manager is also > affecting Synaptic. > > Being a clever little Linux dude I opened a terminal and typed > "sudo synaptic" to see what kind of error messages I got. And sure > enough, I got an error message: > > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo synaptic > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > > So I googled on "must be setuid root" and found a thread in the Ubuntu > forums: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=219767 > > It turns out that the problem listed in the thread is exactly what > happened. A few days ago I needed a graphic located in /usr and I > couldn't get it into the Gimp in anything but read-only mode. The > graphic came as part of the openclipart package that I installed a long > time ago with Synaptic. I have no idea why the package installed the > graphics into /usr with root ownership instead of into ~/. > > The part I did wrong was that I took ownership of the whole /usr folder > instead of just the /usr/share/openclipart folder. That broke sudo. > Fortunately I am not the first Ubuntuoid to do this, and the forum > thread gives instructions for how to fix it. However, the instructions > are not working: > > jjj at Devil7:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/sudo > -rwxr-xr-x 2 jjj jjj 122688 2008-09-10 12:42 /usr/bin/sudo > jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo > chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /usr/bin/sudo #note that this operation worked > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo > chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 0440 /etc/sudoers > chmod: changing permissions of `/etc/sudoers': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /bin/su > chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/su': Operation not permitted > > OK, not such a clever little Linux dude after all. > > The computer continues to run just fine, but I have no access to sudo. > Before I mess things up even more I thought I'd ask here for help from > someone who understands permissions and ownership better than me. > If you have the root password, try just running "su" by itself and enter that password. Then the chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo should work and you're back in business. -wes From dherrington at robertmarktech.com Wed Nov 5 08:57:17 2008 From: dherrington at robertmarktech.com (Daniel Herrington) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:57:17 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5f6af5080811050857n62f6ddb1o8aefea2bf5c0e70@mail.gmail.com> John, I can't offer any help, but I do want to say thanks. As a user of ubuntu who has enough knowledge to be dangerous, I can put this down in my book of things not to do (which at some point I invariably would have done...). Dan H. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:44 AM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Hardy x86_64, more or less up to date. > > This morning Update Manager launched fine and displayed 10 updates. I > clicked on the button to install the upgrades. Normally this pops up a > window asking for the root password. This time it did not. Update > Manager searched for a bit, then did nothing. > > I can also do updates with Synaptic, so I closed Update Manager and > launched Synaptic. That is, I tried to launch it, but nothing happened. > It would not launch. Now, Update Manager uses code in common with > Synaptic, so clearly whatever was wrong with Update Manager is also > affecting Synaptic. > > Being a clever little Linux dude I opened a terminal and typed > "sudo synaptic" to see what kind of error messages I got. And sure > enough, I got an error message: > > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo synaptic > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > > So I googled on "must be setuid root" and found a thread in the Ubuntu > forums: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=219767 > > It turns out that the problem listed in the thread is exactly what > happened. A few days ago I needed a graphic located in /usr and I > couldn't get it into the Gimp in anything but read-only mode. The > graphic came as part of the openclipart package that I installed a long > time ago with Synaptic. I have no idea why the package installed the > graphics into /usr with root ownership instead of into ~/. > > The part I did wrong was that I took ownership of the whole /usr folder > instead of just the /usr/share/openclipart folder. That broke sudo. > Fortunately I am not the first Ubuntuoid to do this, and the forum > thread gives instructions for how to fix it. However, the instructions > are not working: > > jjj at Devil7:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/sudo > -rwxr-xr-x 2 jjj jjj 122688 2008-09-10 12:42 /usr/bin/sudo > jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo > chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /usr/bin/sudo #note that this operation worked > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo > chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 0440 /etc/sudoers > chmod: changing permissions of `/etc/sudoers': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /bin/su > chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/su': Operation not permitted > > OK, not such a clever little Linux dude after all. > > The computer continues to run just fine, but I have no access to sudo. > Before I mess things up even more I thought I'd ask here for help from > someone who understands permissions and ownership better than me. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Nov 5 09:02:30 2008 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:02:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Nov 2008, John Jason Jordan wrote: > The part I did wrong was that I took ownership of the whole /usr > folder instead of just the /usr/share/openclipart folder. That broke > sudo. Fortunately I am not the first Ubuntuoid to do this, and the > forum thread gives instructions for how to fix it. However, the > instructions are not working: At this point, you're going to have to a) boot from a rescue disk b) mount the partition on your hard disk that contains /usr c) chown -R root:root /mnt/tmp/usr (or whatever your path is) d) chmod 4755 /mnt/tmp/usr/bin/sudo. (I think Ubuntu uses 4755 on sudo. CentOS/RHEL use 4111. Either should work.) e) boot back into your system and test sudo. After that, you're going to have to find a healthy Ubuntu system and figure out if the massive chown you did in step (c) needs to be tweaked in various subdirectories of /usr. -- Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> http://www.madboa.com/ From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 09:12:42 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:12:42 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081105091242.e85329df.johnxj@comcast.net> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:57:03 -0700 wes dijo: > If you have the root password, try just running "su" by itself and enter > that password. Then the chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo should work and you're > back in business. Thanks for the suggestion. I do have the root password. Sadly, it did not work: jjj at Devil7:~$ su Password: su: Authentication failure From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 09:16:59 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:16:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <5f6af5080811050857n62f6ddb1o8aefea2bf5c0e70@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> <5f6af5080811050857n62f6ddb1o8aefea2bf5c0e70@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081105091659.472e3235.johnxj@comcast.net> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:57:17 -0800 "Daniel Herrington" dijo: > I can't offer any help, but I do want to say thanks. As a user of ubuntu who > has enough knowledge to be dangerous, I can put this down in my book of > things not to do (which at some point I invariably would have done...). There were a couple posts in the Ubuntu thread suggesting that Ubuntu ought to pop up a warning for this type of thing. I just looked at the folder and said to myself "why, it says 'usr' - that's me!" I mean it's mine, all mine. Clearly I ought to own it! From linux at chrisroberts.org Wed Nov 5 09:23:54 2008 From: linux at chrisroberts.org (Chris Roberts) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 12:23:54 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081105091242.e85329df.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200811050923.54154.linux@chrisroberts.org> On Wednesday 05 November 2008 09:12:42 John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:57:03 -0700 > > wes dijo: > > If you have the root password, try just running "su" by itself and enter > > that password. Then the chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo should work and > > you're back in business. > > Thanks for the suggestion. I do have the root password. Sadly, it did > not work: > > jjj at Devil7:~$ su > Password: > su: Authentication failure > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug If you have a root password, just log out and get to a terminal to login as root. If you are at gdm and can't get to a plain text login, use ctrl+shift+backspace to kill X a few times and it will quit restarting. Then you can log in as root with the root password and fix the required files. - Chris From plug at the-wes.com Wed Nov 5 09:18:27 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 10:18:27 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <20081105091242.e85329df.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081105091242.e85329df.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:12 AM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:57:03 -0700 > wes dijo: > > > If you have the root password, try just running "su" by itself and enter > > that password. Then the chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo should work and > you're > > back in business. > > Thanks for the suggestion. I do have the root password. Sadly, it did > not work: > > jjj at Devil7:~$ su > Password: > su: Authentication failure > I'm betting you're actually using your own account's password with sudo, which means you do not in fact have the root password. Ubuntu is set up this way so that it's theoretically harder for people to hose their systems like you have so cleverly discovered how to do :) You'll have to follow the steps Paul Heinlein outlined for you. This might make a good clinic project. -wes From gently at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 09:27:16 2008 From: gently at gmail.com (chris (fool) mccraw) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:27:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <200811050923.54154.linux@chrisroberts.org> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081105091242.e85329df.johnxj@comcast.net> <200811050923.54154.linux@chrisroberts.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 09:23, Chris Roberts wrote: > If you have a root password, just log out and get to a terminal to login as > root. If you are at gdm and can't get to a plain text login, use > ctrl+shift+backspace to kill X a few times and it will quit restarting. Then > you can log in as root with the root password and fix the required files. it will? methinks not always. much easier to hit control-alt-f1 and get to a text terminal the reasonable way =) control-alt-f7 will take you back to X-ville. From creswick at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 09:38:43 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:38:43 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:44 AM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > > It turns out that the problem listed in the thread is exactly what > happened. A few days ago I needed a graphic located in /usr and I > couldn't get it into the Gimp in anything but read-only mode. The > graphic came as part of the openclipart package that I installed a long > time ago with Synaptic. I have no idea why the package installed the > graphics into /usr with root ownership instead of into ~/. > Packages are (almost?) always installed system-wide, so any user can access them. If the content was installed into your home directory, that would restrict the access to only you. (and you install things as root -- how would it know which user's home dir to put the files in?) > The part I did wrong was that I took ownership of the whole /usr folder > instead of just the /usr/share/openclipart folder. That broke sudo. As a general rule of thumb: you should (almost) never change the permissions of something under /usr (or really under anything other than your home directory). You don't have write access to those things for very good reasons :). The notable exception is if you're following a tutorial you trust, or really, really know what you're doing. (For what it's worth, changing permissions is more common in /var than /usr. /usr is fairly static -- some systems even mount it read-only, so not even *root* can make changes.) The "right" way to do this is to copy the clipart you want to modify into your home directory, then if you need to put a modified copy back in to /usr/share/openclipart you can use sudo to do so. Keep in mind, when you update openclipart, you may very well loose your modifications. My apologies for harping on how you should never touch permissions in /usr, but it really *is* important :). --Rogan > Fortunately I am not the first Ubuntuoid to do this, and the forum > thread gives instructions for how to fix it. However, the instructions > are not working: > > jjj at Devil7:~$ ls -l /usr/bin/sudo > -rwxr-xr-x 2 jjj jjj 122688 2008-09-10 12:42 /usr/bin/sudo > jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo > chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /usr/bin/sudo #note that this operation worked > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo > chown: changing ownership of `/usr/bin/sudo': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 0440 /etc/sudoers > chmod: changing permissions of `/etc/sudoers': Operation not permitted > jjj at Devil7:~$ sudo su > sudo: must be setuid root > jjj at Devil7:~$ chmod 4755 /bin/su > chmod: changing permissions of `/bin/su': Operation not permitted > > OK, not such a clever little Linux dude after all. > > The computer continues to run just fine, but I have no access to sudo. > Before I mess things up even more I thought I'd ask here for help from > someone who understands permissions and ownership better than me. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From mike at mommabears.com Wed Nov 5 09:11:46 2008 From: mike at mommabears.com (MJang) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:11:46 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1225905106.7025.3.camel@UbuntuHH> On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 08:44 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Hardy x86_64, more or less up to date. > snip > So I googled on "must be setuid root" and found a thread in the Ubuntu > forums: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=219767 > snip > The computer continues to run just fine, but I have no access to sudo. > Before I mess things up even more I thought I'd ask here for help from > someone who understands permissions and ownership better than me. > To get direct administrative access on Hardy - boot into recovery mode (Press Esc within 5 seconds of the boot process starting to get to the GRUB Menu. Then select (probably ) the second option in the GRUB menu - it should be labeled as "Recovery Mode". When you get to a blue screen with three or four options, select something like (I'm trying to remember) "Drop to Root Shell Prompt". Then, you'll have direct access as the root administrative user - and should then be able to execute the commands you've described from the noted thread. Thanks, Mike From dmandel at pdxlinux.org Wed Nov 5 16:06:31 2008 From: dmandel at pdxlinux.org (David Mandel) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:06:31 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] SECOND ANNOUNCEMENT: November PLUG Meeting Message-ID: MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT The Portland Linux/Unix Group will meet 7 PM Thursday Nov 6, 2008 at Portland State University in the Fariborz Maseeh College of Engineering & Computer Science Building Room FAB 86-01 (This is in the basement.) The building is on SW 4th across from SW College Street. See location H-10 on map at http://pdxLinux.org/campus_map.jpg ******************************************************************* PRESENTATION LANs, iptables, routing and more by Kirk Harr ******************************************************************* Agenda: 7:00 - 7:30 Business We will discuss the status of our ongoing projects including PLUG's monthly Advanced Topics meetings, PLUG's monthly hands on clinics, PLUG for Education, etc. 7:30 - 8:30 Presentation See above 9:00 - ... Beer Jax Bar And Restaurant 826 SW 2nd Avenue Portland (Note: We no longer use the Lucky Lab.) David Mandel Chief Activist Portland Linux/Unix Group 560 SE Alexander Corvallis, Oregon 97333 (541) 730-5285 mobile dmandel at pdxLinux.org P.S. The Mid Willamette Valley Linux Users Group meets every month. They are currently meeting at 6:00 PM on the third Wednesday of the month at the Corvallis Chamber of Commerce in Corvallis. As of May 2008, the Mid Willamette Valley Linux Users Group was under reconstruction. Once this is done see http://www.lug.corvallis.or.us/ for details. P.S. The Eugene Linux Users Group meets several times a month. See http://www.euglug.org for details. ====================================================================== David Mandel http://www.DavidMandel.com Portland Linux/Unix Group http://pdxLinux.org LinuxFund http://LinuxFund.org ====================================================================== From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 17:05:06 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:05:06 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081105170506.e4950117.johnxj@comcast.net> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:38:43 -0800 "Rogan Creswick" dijo: > > The part I did wrong was that I took ownership of the whole /usr folder > > instead of just the /usr/share/openclipart folder. That broke sudo. > The "right" way to do this is to copy the clipart you want to modify > into your home directory, then if you need to put a modified copy back > in to /usr/share/openclipart you can use sudo to do so. Keep in mind, > when you update openclipart, you may very well loose your > modifications. The folder in question is the folder that OOo looks in for clipart that it displays in its Gallery. The clipart in that folder in /usr is available to all users. But the user is not allowed to alter the file or do a save as or a save a copy from within OOo. Besides, I would prefer to save the copy in the same folder so that the copy would also appear in the Gallery. If any user can use the files in the folder, then any user should be able to alter the images and place the altered images back in the same folder - so the altered images would be available to all users. Making root the owner of this particular folder was unnecessary from a security standpoint - it's just clipart. And making root the owner of the folder thwarts users who want to save images to the Gallery. Of course you are absolutely correct that I should not have taken ownership of the entire /usr folder. So evidently I need to take a course in computer security systems before being allowed to use a Linux box. :( From creswick at gmail.com Wed Nov 5 17:13:50 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:13:50 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <20081105170506.e4950117.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081105170506.e4950117.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:05 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > > The folder in question is the folder that OOo looks in for clipart that > it displays in its Gallery. The clipart in that folder in /usr is > available to all users. But the user is not allowed to alter the file > or do a save as or a save a copy from within OOo. Besides, I would > prefer to save the copy in the same folder so that the copy would also > appear in the Gallery. If any user can use the files in the folder, > then any user should be able to alter the images and place the altered > images back in the same folder - so the altered images would be > available to all users. But what if a user (accidentally or maliciously) deleted all the files, or replaced them with pornographic content? This probably is not the case for apps like OpenOffice, but some apps just store the location of images, and then load them again when you open the file -- it could be quite a surprise when you go to give a presentation ;) (ok -- so the porn example is unlikely on your laptop, but the point that mistakes happen remains.) > Making root the owner of this particular folder > was unnecessary from a security standpoint - it's just clipart. And > making root the owner of the folder thwarts users who want to save > images to the Gallery. There is a ~/.openoffice.org2/user/gallery directory on my ubuntu box -- I bet you can put images in there without any additional permissions, no risk, and no penalty on a single-user box. --Rogan > > Of course you are absolutely correct that I should not have taken > ownership of the entire /usr folder. So evidently I need to take a > course in computer security systems before being allowed to use a Linux > box. :( > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 17:42:27 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:42:27 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] I broke sudo In-Reply-To: <1225905106.7025.3.camel@UbuntuHH> References: <20081105084439.62978654.johnxj@comcast.net> <1225905106.7025.3.camel@UbuntuHH> Message-ID: <20081105174227.4bf05b08.johnxj@comcast.net> On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:11:46 -0800 MJang dijo: > > So I googled on "must be setuid root" and found a thread in the Ubuntu > > forums: > > > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=219767 > To get direct administrative access on Hardy - boot into recovery mode > (Press Esc within 5 seconds of the boot process starting to get to the > GRUB Menu. Then select (probably ) the second option in the GRUB menu - > it should be labeled as "Recovery Mode". > > When you get to a blue screen with three or four options, select > something like (I'm trying to remember) "Drop to Root Shell Prompt". > > Then, you'll have direct access as the root administrative user - and > should then be able to execute the commands you've described from the > noted thread. Booting to recovery mode seemed easier to me than Paul's idea of a recovery disk, although that would probably have worked as well. And fortunately I did get a root prompt. I followed the instructions on the Ubuntu forum, that is: chown root:root /usr/bin/sudo chmod 4755 /usr/bin/sudo reboot After it came back up I was able to use sudo commands again. I applied the updates in Update Manager to verify that sudo is working. All seems well again, except I need to figure out now what else is messed up. And I also just now set a root password so next time I need to be root I can do so. Except now I have another damn password to try to remember. I know - I'll just print it on an Avery label and stick it on the front of the computer. :) Thanks to all for the suggestions and help. From linux-yug at xprt.net Wed Nov 5 22:45:48 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:45:48 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question Message-ID: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> HI I have an Open Office Question... I can't get it to write over a jpeg... Has anyone used this program...??? TIA Linux_yug From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 5 23:07:44 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 23:07:44 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081105230744.bdd8159a.johnxj@comcast.net> On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:45:48 -0800 linux-yug dijo: > I have an Open Office Question... > I can't get it to write over a jpeg... Has anyone used this > program...??? I don't understand the question. What do you mean by "write over a jpeg"? Can you say what you are trying to do and explain step by step what you are doing to accomplish it? From davek52 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 07:36:45 2008 From: davek52 at gmail.com (David Kaplan) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 07:36:45 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <98afdbcd0811060736y582f52f5wc43d672c3a44c9a1@mail.gmail.com> Try using OpenOffice Draw. That should work. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:45 PM, linux-yug wrote: > HI > > I have an Open Office Question... > > > I can't get it to write over a jpeg... Has anyone used this > program...??? > > > TIA > > Linux_yug > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From m0gely at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 07:47:12 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:47:12 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <20081105230744.bdd8159a.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> <20081105230744.bdd8159a.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <49131180.5010802@gmail.com> John Jason Jordan wrote: > I don't understand the question. What do you mean by "write over a > jpeg"? He probably means putting the image in the background and text in the foreground. -- - m0gely From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 6 07:50:07 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:50:07 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <20081105230744.bdd8159a.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> <20081105230744.bdd8159a.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1225986607.7072.122.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 23:07 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:45:48 -0800 > linux-yug dijo: > > > I have an Open Office Question... > > I can't get it to write over a jpeg... Has anyone used this > > program...??? > > I don't understand the question. What do you mean by "write over a > jpeg"? Can you say what you are trying to do and explain step by step > what you are doing to accomplish it? Sorry, I wasn't clear.. I want some text over a jpeg. So I create the text... Then I import picture and past it over text.. Well, then text runs around picture.. So I select send picture to back and text through.. And it just doesn't work for me.. And I did this YEARS ago.. So I know it works.. Just doing something wrong.. Thanks > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 6 07:50:56 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:50:56 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <98afdbcd0811060736y582f52f5wc43d672c3a44c9a1@mail.gmail.com> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> <98afdbcd0811060736y582f52f5wc43d672c3a44c9a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1225986656.7072.124.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-06 at 07:36 -0800, David Kaplan wrote: > Try using OpenOffice Draw. That should work. > I want this on Labels so I need to stick with Writer... > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:45 PM, linux-yug wrote: > > > HI > > > > I have an Open Office Question... > > > > > > I can't get it to write over a jpeg... Has anyone used this > > program...??? > > > > > > TIA > > > > Linux_yug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 6 07:52:41 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 07:52:41 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <49131180.5010802@gmail.com> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> <20081105230744.bdd8159a.johnxj@comcast.net> <49131180.5010802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1225986761.7072.127.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-06 at 07:47 -0800, m0gely wrote: > John Jason Jordan wrote: > > > I don't understand the question. What do you mean by "write over a > > jpeg"? > > He probably means putting the image in the background and text in the > foreground. > Exactly!!!!!!!!!!! Should be a job a 3rd graded could do.... I will look for 3rd grader!!! hehe yug From davek52 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 08:10:34 2008 From: davek52 at gmail.com (David Kaplan) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:10:34 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 Message-ID: <98afdbcd0811060810q54c1bee0v237e99f573fac82@mail.gmail.com> Anyone here use SLED 10? I run a Dell Optiplex 160L with a Intel i845 video and I'm having trouble getting the resolution to set at 1440x900 for a Samsung Syncmaster 953BW monitor. I got it to 1024x768 but it's still not sharp. Every time I tried to set it to 1440x900 the whole screen would flip out or go black. Any clues? From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Thu Nov 6 08:37:17 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:37:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 In-Reply-To: <98afdbcd0811060810q54c1bee0v237e99f573fac82@mail.gmail.com> References: <98afdbcd0811060810q54c1bee0v237e99f573fac82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2008, David Kaplan wrote: > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:10:34 -0800 > From: David Kaplan > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: PLUG > Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 > > Anyone here use SLED 10? I run a Dell Optiplex 160L with a Intel i845 video > and I'm having trouble getting the resolution to set at 1440x900 for a > Samsung Syncmaster 953BW monitor. I got it to 1024x768 but it's still not > sharp. Every time I tried to set it to 1440x900 the whole screen would flip > out or go black. > > Any clues? The video modes you have to work with are a function of the video card. Your Xorg.0.log file (most likely in /var/log/) will tell you which modes your video card claims to support. Mine looks like this: (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1680x1050": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1680x1050" 121.50 1680 1800 1832 1872 1050 1052 1053 1062 (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1280x1024": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1280x1024" 121.50 1280 1600 1632 1872 1024 1039 1040 1062 (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1152x864": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1152x864" 121.50 1152 1536 1568 1872 864 959 960 1062 (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1024x768": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1024x768" 121.50 1024 1472 1504 1872 768 911 912 1062 (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "800x600": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "800x600" 121.50 800 1360 1392 1872 600 827 828 1062 (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "640x480": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "640x480" 121.50 640 1280 1312 1872 480 767 768 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "1400x1050": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1400x1050" 121.50 1400 1656 1688 1872 1050 1052 1053 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "1280x800": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1280x800" 121.50 1280 1600 1632 1872 800 927 928 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "848x480": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "848x480" 121.50 848 1384 1416 1872 480 767 768 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "720x576": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "720x576" 121.50 720 1320 1352 1872 576 815 816 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "720x480": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "720x480" 121.50 720 1320 1352 1872 480 767 768 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "640x400": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "640x400" 121.50 640 1280 1312 1872 400 727 728 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "640x350": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "640x350" 121.50 640 1280 1312 1872 350 702 703 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "512x384": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "512x384" 121.50 512 1216 1248 1872 384 719 720 1062 (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "400x300": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (D) (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "400x300" 121.50 400 1160 1192 1872 300 827 828 1062 doublescan (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "320x240": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (D) (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "320x240" 121.50 320 1120 1152 1872 240 767 768 1062 doublescan (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "320x200": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (D) (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "320x200" 121.50 320 1120 1152 1872 200 738 739 1062 doublescan (==) fglrx(0): DPI set to (75, 75) (--) fglrx(0): Virtual size is 1680x1050 (pitch 1728) If you don't see 1440x900 in the list, you are SOL. Buy a new video card. Carlos From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Thu Nov 6 08:41:32 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:41:32 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 In-Reply-To: <98afdbcd0811060810q54c1bee0v237e99f573fac82@mail.gmail.com> References: <98afdbcd0811060810q54c1bee0v237e99f573fac82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2008, David Kaplan wrote: > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:10:34 -0800 > From: David Kaplan > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: PLUG > Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 > > Anyone here use SLED 10? I run a Dell Optiplex 160L with a Intel i845 video > and I'm having trouble getting the resolution to set at 1440x900 for a > Samsung Syncmaster 953BW monitor. I got it to 1024x768 but it's still not > sharp. Every time I tried to set it to 1440x900 the whole screen would flip > out or go black. > > Any clues? I need to amend my earlier post slightly. The available modes are a function of your video card DRIVER. Sometimes you can choose among a small set of drivers, which might give different results. The vesa driver, for instance, can be used with virtually any video card, but it is the worst choice - a lowest common denominator. Is the usual intel driver the i810? That's probably as good as it gets for your card. Carlos From galens at seitzassoc.com Thu Nov 6 09:37:38 2008 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:37:38 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 In-Reply-To: References: <98afdbcd0811060810q54c1bee0v237e99f573fac82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49132B62.5060102@seitzassoc.com> Carlos Konstanski wrote: > On Thu, 6 Nov 2008, David Kaplan wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:10:34 -0800 >> From: David Kaplan >> Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" >> >> To: PLUG >> Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 >> >> Anyone here use SLED 10? I run a Dell Optiplex 160L with a Intel i845 video >> and I'm having trouble getting the resolution to set at 1440x900 for a >> Samsung Syncmaster 953BW monitor. I got it to 1024x768 but it's still not >> sharp. Every time I tried to set it to 1440x900 the whole screen would flip >> out or go black. >> >> Any clues? > > I need to amend my earlier post slightly. The available modes are a > function of your video card DRIVER. Sometimes you can choose among a > small set of drivers, which might give different results. The vesa > driver, for instance, can be used with virtually any video card, but > it is the worst choice - a lowest common denominator. Is the usual > intel driver the i810? That's probably as good as it gets for your > card. > I don't believe this is correct. If the default configuration(s) isn't working, it should be possible to create a custom modeline that will properly drive the monitor. Prior to the emergence of the DDC standard, this was a very common thing to do. Today the data provided by the monitor over DDC normally eliminates the need to create modelines. David, have you rebooted since hooking up the monitor? Be sure you are not bitten like I was: http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug/2008-March/058576.html Once you've ruled that out, I suggest looking at the X log file (/var/log Xorg.0.log on my CentOS system) and looking for the DDC info. You should see your desired resolution in one of the mode lists. Here's an example from my system: (--) NV(0): DDC detected a DFP: (II) NV(0): Manufacturer: SAM Model: 2b6 Serial#: 1213542964 (II) NV(0): Year: 2008 Week: 11 (II) NV(0): EDID Version: 1.3 (II) NV(0): Digital Display Input (II) NV(0): Max H-Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 52 vert.: 32 (II) NV(0): Gamma: 2.60 (II) NV(0): DPMS capabilities: Off; RGB/Color Display (II) NV(0): First detailed timing is preferred mode (II) NV(0): redX: 0.653 redY: 0.337 greenX: 0.295 greenY: 0.607 (II) NV(0): blueX: 0.144 blueY: 0.075 whiteX: 0.312 whiteY: 0.329 (II) NV(0): Supported VESA Video Modes: (II) NV(0): 720x400 at 70Hz (II) NV(0): 640x480 at 60Hz (II) NV(0): 640x480 at 67Hz (II) NV(0): 640x480 at 72Hz (II) NV(0): 640x480 at 75Hz (II) NV(0): 800x600 at 56Hz (II) NV(0): 800x600 at 60Hz (II) NV(0): 800x600 at 72Hz (II) NV(0): 800x600 at 75Hz (II) NV(0): 832x624 at 75Hz (II) NV(0): 1024x768 at 60Hz (II) NV(0): 1024x768 at 70Hz (II) NV(0): 1024x768 at 75Hz (II) NV(0): 1280x1024 at 75Hz (II) NV(0): 1152x870 at 75Hz (II) NV(0): Manufacturer's mask: 0 (II) NV(0): Supported Future Video Modes: (II) NV(0): #0: hsize: 1600 vsize 1200 refresh: 60 vid: 16553 (II) NV(0): #1: hsize: 1280 vsize 1024 refresh: 60 vid: 32897 (II) NV(0): #2: hsize: 1280 vsize 960 refresh: 60 vid: 16513 (II) NV(0): #3: hsize: 1152 vsize 864 refresh: 75 vid: 20337 (II) NV(0): Supported additional Video Mode: (II) NV(0): clock: 154.0 MHz Image Size: 518 x 324 mm (II) NV(0): h_active: 1920 h_sync: 1968 h_sync_end 2000 h_blank_end 2080 h_bor der: 0 (II) NV(0): v_active: 1200 v_sync: 1203 v_sync_end 1209 v_blanking: 1235 v_bor der: 0 (II) NV(0): Ranges: V min: 56 V max: 75 Hz, H min: 30 H max: 81 kHz, PixClock max 170 MHz -- Galen Seitz Seitz & Associates galens at seitzassoc.com From tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org Thu Nov 6 09:53:48 2008 From: tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org (Tim) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:53:48 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <1225986656.7072.124.camel@localhost> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> <98afdbcd0811060736y582f52f5wc43d672c3a44c9a1@mail.gmail.com> <1225986656.7072.124.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081106175348.GD2482@sentinelchicken.org> First ensure the picture is anchored to a paragraph or page or something, not as a character. (This can be changed through the right click menu.) Then, right click on the picture and select "Picture...". Go to the "Wrap" tab and select "Through" and check the "in background" checkbox. This is on OO 2.4.1. HTH, tim From tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org Thu Nov 6 09:58:35 2008 From: tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org (Tim) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 09:58:35 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <1225986656.7072.124.camel@localhost> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> <98afdbcd0811060736y582f52f5wc43d672c3a44c9a1@mail.gmail.com> <1225986656.7072.124.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081106175835.GE2482@sentinelchicken.org> Another approach. Create a table (1x1 if you really just want text). From within the cell, click "Table->Table Properties" at the top menu. Go to the "Background" tab and select "Graphic" in the "As" dropdown. Then add your graphic file and decide if you want it tiled or not. Then, you can just type into that cell to get text over the top of it. Tables are a very handy formatting tool if you know how to use them. Don't like those table borders? Just remove them in the borders tab, along with the border spacing, and no one will be able to tell you even have a table there if you export to PDF or print it. good luck, tim From davek52 at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 10:40:44 2008 From: davek52 at gmail.com (David Kaplan) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:40:44 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 In-Reply-To: References: <98afdbcd0811060810q54c1bee0v237e99f573fac82@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <98afdbcd0811061040v67f46f3ao5b8d3f11cf512b6c@mail.gmail.com> I added 1440x900 to other Xorg files. Can't I just add that to the file? On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Carlos Konstanski < ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com> wrote: > On Thu, 6 Nov 2008, David Kaplan wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 08:10:34 -0800 > > From: David Kaplan > > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > > > To: PLUG > > Subject: [PLUG] configuring screen resolution in SLED 10 > > > > Anyone here use SLED 10? I run a Dell Optiplex 160L with a Intel i845 > video > > and I'm having trouble getting the resolution to set at 1440x900 for a > > Samsung Syncmaster 953BW monitor. I got it to 1024x768 but it's still not > > sharp. Every time I tried to set it to 1440x900 the whole screen would > flip > > out or go black. > > > > Any clues? > > The video modes you have to work with are a function of the video > card. Your Xorg.0.log file (most likely in /var/log/) will tell you > which modes your video card claims to support. Mine looks like this: > > (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1680x1050": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 > kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1680x1050" 121.50 1680 1800 1832 1872 1050 1052 > 1053 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1280x1024": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 > kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1280x1024" 121.50 1280 1600 1632 1872 1024 1039 > 1040 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1152x864": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, > 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1152x864" 121.50 1152 1536 1568 1872 864 959 > 960 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "1024x768": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, > 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1024x768" 121.50 1024 1472 1504 1872 768 911 > 912 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "800x600": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, > 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "800x600" 121.50 800 1360 1392 1872 600 827 828 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): *Mode "640x480": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), 64.9 kHz, > 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "640x480" 121.50 640 1280 1312 1872 480 767 768 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "1400x1050": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1400x1050" 121.50 1400 1656 1688 1872 1050 1052 > 1053 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "1280x800": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "1280x800" 121.50 1280 1600 1632 1872 800 927 > 928 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "848x480": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "848x480" 121.50 848 1384 1416 1872 480 767 768 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "720x576": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "720x576" 121.50 720 1320 1352 1872 576 815 816 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "720x480": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "720x480" 121.50 720 1320 1352 1872 480 767 768 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "640x400": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "640x400" 121.50 640 1280 1312 1872 400 727 728 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "640x350": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "640x350" 121.50 640 1280 1312 1872 350 702 703 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "512x384": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "512x384" 121.50 512 1216 1248 1872 384 719 720 > 1062 > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "400x300": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (D) > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "400x300" 121.50 400 1160 1192 1872 300 827 828 > 1062 doublescan > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "320x240": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (D) > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "320x240" 121.50 320 1120 1152 1872 240 767 768 > 1062 doublescan > (**) fglrx(0): Default mode "320x200": 121.5 MHz (scaled from 0.0 MHz), > 64.9 kHz, 60.0 Hz (D) > (II) fglrx(0): Modeline "320x200" 121.50 320 1120 1152 1872 200 738 739 > 1062 doublescan > (==) fglrx(0): DPI set to (75, 75) > (--) fglrx(0): Virtual size is 1680x1050 (pitch 1728) > > If you don't see 1440x900 in the list, you are SOL. Buy a new video > card. > > Carlos > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Nov 6 11:29:29 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 11:29:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <20081106175348.GD2482@sentinelchicken.org> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> <98afdbcd0811060736y582f52f5wc43d672c3a44c9a1@mail.gmail.com> <1225986656.7072.124.camel@localhost> <20081106175348.GD2482@sentinelchicken.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Nov 2008, Tim wrote: > First ensure the picture is anchored to a paragraph or page or something, > not as a character. (This can be changed through the right click menu.) > Then, right click on the picture and select "Picture...". Go to the "Wrap" > tab and select "Through" and check the "in background" checkbox. > This is on OO 2.4.1. This works on all versions. Regardless, if the desire is to put labels on an image the better way is to load the image in the GIMP and use a second layer for the text. Relative positions remain the same this way while they may shift with over written text on a background image. Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From fredjame at fredjame.cnc.net Thu Nov 6 06:57:15 2008 From: fredjame at fredjame.cnc.net (Fred James) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:57:15 -0600 Subject: [PLUG] Open office question In-Reply-To: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> References: <1225953948.7072.113.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <491305CB.3070405@fredjame.cnc.net> linux-yug wrote: > HI > > I have an Open Office Question... > > > I can't get it to write over a jpeg... Has anyone used this > program...??? > > > TIA > > Linux_yug > linux-yug Text over an image in OpenOffice ... Click the "Show Draw Functions" icon on the tool bar Select the "Text" icon in the Draw Functions tool bar ... play with that for a while - there is a learning curve - if you have any more questions, ask - OK? Regards Fred James PS: I am using OpenOffice 2.2.1, but I believe this has been working for a while now. From keithl at kl-ic.com Fri Nov 7 21:13:54 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:13:54 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] A not-quite-usable $20 SAN disk enclosure at Frys (2) In-Reply-To: References: <20081104061003.GB25800@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20081108051354.GA10080@gate.kl-ic.com> > On 11/3/08, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > > > My second impulse buy today at Frys was a Netgear/Zetera SC101 ... > > Sadly, it will only configure and partition with Windoze software > > (why not a web interface? twits!) I can load the Netgear > > configuration software onto the Win2K VMware image on my laptop, > > but the software will only find storage on the same LAN segment. ... > > If we can get the SC101 configured, we can use this software: > > > > http://code.google.com/p/sc101-nbd/ On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 11:16:07PM -0800, drew wymore wrote: > I have this exact enclosure Keith. If you upgrade the firmware to gain > Vista support you won't be able to use the open source driver anymore > as it was firmware dependent. > > FWIW the transfer rate is not very good for large files. Smaller files > it doesn't have so much trouble with. More about the SC101 - I was able to configure VMWare/Win2K to use "bridged networking" so the drive was on the same local segment as the Windoze configuration software. Note, I turned off iptables on my laptop (on the internal network!) so the software could use whatever ports the network interface uses. The enclosure only works with ATA-6 parallel drives. Nothing older than about 2004 will work. Drew is right, the enclosure is slow. 7.14MB/sec or about 26GB per hour with a 7200rpm 250GB Hitachi drive. In comparison, an 7200rpm drive directly on an ATA-133 controller runs around 31MB/sec, and that drive on an external USB2 controller may run as fast as 19 MB/sec . I appreciate Drew's warning about firmware - the enclosure came with 4.22.13 firmware, the same as sc101-nbd works with. The Windoze configuration app wants to upgrade the firmware to the latest version, and needs to be configured NOT to. All in all, an interesting toy to play with, but not very suitable for use at the Clinic as I had hoped. Too many things will need changing on most machines to access it. Moving John's USB drive around will be easier. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From robert.citek at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 05:59:05 2008 From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 07:59:05 -0600 Subject: [PLUG] USB DVD Writer In-Reply-To: <490B3C96.5040308@comcast.net> References: <490B3C96.5040308@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4145b6790811080559k4f905d0dyb83073830f573e81@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Richard C. Steffens wrote: > Any Linux experience with an external USB DVD burner? Yes. I don't recall the make/model, but it came from Office Depot. I plugged it into the USB port, and it just worked. Regards, - Robert From robert.citek at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 06:05:19 2008 From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 08:05:19 -0600 Subject: [PLUG] Help disabling block device In-Reply-To: <200810290814.06858.aaron@madebyai.com> References: <4908792A.3070607@madebyai.com> <200810290814.06858.aaron@madebyai.com> Message-ID: <4145b6790811080605t4a38f83et1b8be1a006fc6b68@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Aaron Ten Clay wrote: > On Wednesday 29 October 2008 08:00:05 am wes wrote: >> The trick I've found is to use umount -l which allows the current operation >> to continue, but effectively unmounts the device so that any future >> operation won't find it. Then when the current operation finishes, it will >> fully release the device and you can safely disconnect it. >> >> -wes > > I'll give this a try. How did it go? Regards, - Robert From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Nov 8 08:00:31 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 08:00:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] A not-quite-usable $20 SAN disk enclosure at Frys (2) In-Reply-To: <20081108051354.GA10080@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081104061003.GB25800@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081108051354.GA10080@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > All in all, an interesting toy to play with, but not very suitable for use > at the Clinic as I had hoped. But it probably will work all right as a paperweight or door stop. Interesting adventure, Keith. Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From cjdaniel at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 17:03:44 2008 From: cjdaniel at gmail.com (Chris Daniel) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:03:44 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] OpenMoko experiences? In-Reply-To: <868wsrycb8.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <868wsrycb8.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <7b0ef370811111703ubba503u46608f3cab44ca5d@mail.gmail.com> The OpenMoko is pretty immature at the moment; to me, it seems like more of a geeky toy than a useful tool. It has nice specs, even in comparison to the iPhone's hardware, but there are things missing, like 3G support. Maybe in a year or so, there will be more and better applications written for it, as well as a superior hardware platform. Note that this perspective doesn't come from my experience, just from reading. I'll be getting a G1 on Friday for work, so I'll be sure to post something here about that. It really does seem that a lot of developers are excited about developing for Android, so there will probably be some really nice apps for it. Personally, I will wait another year or two before choosing a smartphone for myself. The iPhone has clearly started some serious competition, and by then some of it should be mature (my bet is on Android phones for the successful competitors). It's the iPod all over again, except with phones. On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Russell Senior wrote: >>>>>> "Rogan" == Rogan Creswick writes: > > Rogan> Has anyone here used the Open Moko Freerunner? I'm in the > Rogan> market for a new phone, and I'm trying to decide between the > Rogan> Freerunner and the T-Mobile G1 (the android phone) -- > Rogan> "Openness" is pretty important to me, but so is stability and > Rogan> practicality. > > I haven't used the Open Moko directly, but heard from Don Park (past > president of PTP) that it had some issues as of a couple months ago. > I haven't heard anything recently. It might be better now, or he may > have exaggerated. Fwiw. > > > -- > Russell Senior, Secretary > russell at personaltelco.net > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From creswick at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 17:45:16 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:45:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] OpenMoko experiences? In-Reply-To: <7b0ef370811111703ubba503u46608f3cab44ca5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <868wsrycb8.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <7b0ef370811111703ubba503u46608f3cab44ca5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Chris Daniel wrote: > I'll be getting a G1 on Friday for work, so I'll be sure to post > something here about that. It really does seem that a lot of > developers are excited about developing for Android, so there will > probably be some really nice apps for it. The biggest disappointment I've had with the G1 is that there isn't really any way to close applications -- they just get cleaned up when the OS thinks it should. As a result, you can have some apps running for a very, very long time (and performance seriously goes south at times). The garbage collection penalty is fairly high and unexpected. Actually, it's probably a great example of why you *don't* want a garbage collector on a real-time OS :). Practically speaking, this isn't a big deal on the G1, but it is an annoyance. (The gmail app also forces you to top-post... ) --Rogan > > Personally, I will wait another year or two before choosing a > smartphone for myself. The iPhone has clearly started some serious > competition, and by then some of it should be mature (my bet is on > Android phones for the successful competitors). It's the iPod all over > again, except with phones. > > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Russell Senior > wrote: >>>>>>> "Rogan" == Rogan Creswick writes: >> >> Rogan> Has anyone here used the Open Moko Freerunner? I'm in the >> Rogan> market for a new phone, and I'm trying to decide between the >> Rogan> Freerunner and the T-Mobile G1 (the android phone) -- >> Rogan> "Openness" is pretty important to me, but so is stability and >> Rogan> practicality. >> >> I haven't used the Open Moko directly, but heard from Don Park (past >> president of PTP) that it had some issues as of a couple months ago. >> I haven't heard anything recently. It might be better now, or he may >> have exaggerated. Fwiw. >> >> >> -- >> Russell Senior, Secretary >> russell at personaltelco.net >> _______________________________________________ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 12 16:39:23 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:39:23 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Clinic Sunday! Message-ID: <20081112163923.a01f0c29.johnxj@comcast.net> Yes, it's that fabulous event you've all been waiting for! This Sunday November 16 is the famous Linux Clinic. When: 1 pm to 5 pm, Sunday, November 16, 2008 Where: Free Geek, 1741 S.E. 10th Avenue in Portland Bring your broken Linux computers and we'll fix them. Bring your Windows computers and we'll install Linux on them. Or just come and watch the fun and festivities. We have Linux gurus to ask questions of. We have keyboards, mice and monitors available. We have all major distros on disk. We even have stickers and decals so you can let everyone see how smart you are to run Linux. We also have coffee, cookies and jalape?o potato chips. How could you possibly stay away? See you there! From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 13 08:30:11 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:30:11 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time Message-ID: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> HI Had a power outage last night and the computer rebooted. Now my time is off by one hour.. I checked and I am set to Pacific.. So if I am set the the correct time zone why am I off an hour?? TIA linux-yug From plug at the-wes.com Thu Nov 13 07:58:18 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:58:18 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time In-Reply-To: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> References: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Does it say PST or PDT? Is 1 hour ahead or behind? -wes On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:30 AM, linux-yug wrote: > HI > > Had a power outage last night and the computer rebooted. > > Now my time is off by one hour.. > > I checked and I am set to Pacific.. > > So if I am set the the correct time zone why am I off an hour?? > > TIA > > linux-yug > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 13 09:59:00 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:59:00 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time In-Reply-To: References: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1226599140.17985.11.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 07:58 -0800, wes wrote: > Does it say PST or PDT? > > Is 1 hour ahead or behind? > > -wes > IT says.. PST....... but, I am off by one hour ahead.... This is from tzconfig ############### copy and paste Number: 3 Alaska Aleutian Arizona Central Eastern East-Indiana Hawaii Indiana-Starke Michigan Mountain Pacific Samoa Please enter the name of one of these cities or zones You just need to type enough letters to resolve ambiguities Press Enter to view all of them again Name: [] pacif Your default time zone is set to 'US/Pacific'. Local time is now: Thu Nov 13 09:55:14 PST 2008. Universal Time is now: Thu Nov 13 17:55:14 UTC 2008. root at suna:/home/yug# date Thu Nov 13 09:55:19 PST 2008 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ /copy and paste and it is 8:55 I am confused.. linux-yug > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:30 AM, linux-yug wrote: > > > HI > > > > Had a power outage last night and the computer rebooted. > > > > Now my time is off by one hour.. > > > > I checked and I am set to Pacific.. > > > > So if I am set the the correct time zone why am I off an hour?? > > > > TIA > > > > linux-yug > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From plug at the-wes.com Thu Nov 13 09:06:55 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:06:55 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time In-Reply-To: <1226599140.17985.11.camel@localhost> References: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> <1226599140.17985.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 9:59 AM, linux-yug wrote: > On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 07:58 -0800, wes wrote: > > Does it say PST or PDT? > > > > Is 1 hour ahead or behind? > > > > -wes > > > > > > IT says.. PST....... > > but, I am off by one hour ahead.... > That is pretty weird. Seems like your time server may be off by an hour. I would try updating the time manually, or use a different time server. -wes From wevl at pacifier.com Thu Nov 13 09:30:27 2008 From: wevl at pacifier.com (Wayne E. Van Loon Sr.) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:30:27 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time In-Reply-To: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> References: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <491C6433.7040700@pacifier.com> linux-yug wrote: > HI > > Had a power outage last night and the computer rebooted. > > Now my time is off by one hour.. > > I checked and I am set to Pacific.. > What date does your machine show? > So if I am set the the correct time zone why am I off an hour?? > > TIA > > linux-yug > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > From griffint at pobox.com Thu Nov 13 10:28:47 2008 From: griffint at pobox.com (Terry Griffin) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:28:47 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time In-Reply-To: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> References: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200811131028.47772.griffint@pobox.com> On Thursday 13 November 2008 8:30 am, linux-yug wrote: > HI > > Had a power outage last night and the computer rebooted. > > Now my time is off by one hour.. > > I checked and I am set to Pacific.. > > So if I am set the the correct time zone why am I off an hour?? > > TIA > > linux-yug > A theory: 1. Your Linux system is configure to set your hardware clock to local time, not UCT. 2. Your computer had been up and running since the change to standard time. 3. So your hardware clock had never been synced to standard time, because the hardware clock is normally synced to the system clock during shutdown. But since you had an unclean shutdown this syncing never happend. 4. When it booted back up, the system clock was synced to the hardware clock under the assumption that the hardware clock was set to standard time when in reality it was still set to daylight time. Use the 'hwclock' utility to set/check the hardware clock. See the hwclock(8) man page. Generally with Linux you should configure the system to set the hardware clock to UCT. Then you don't run in to these sorts of problems. The exception is when you are dual-booting with Windows. In that case it usually works out better to configure Linux to set the hardware clock to local time to match how Windows does it. Terry From johnxj at comcast.net Thu Nov 13 21:40:54 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:40:54 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Intrepid hoses X Message-ID: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> My laptop is my main computer and I refuse to upgrade to Intrepid for a while yet. But I did decide to upgrade my desktop to Intrepid just to see what would happen. The desktop uses an nVidia GeForce 6150 on the motherboard connected to a Samsung SyncMaster 206BW monitor. It worked fine with the nvidia-glx-new driver under Hardy at 1680 x 1050. After the upgrade X would not start. By editing the xorg.conf file and replacing "nvidia" with "nv" I got X to start, but it is VESA 1024 x 768. I've tried several things to no avail. The Ubuntu forums are replete with video problems after the upgrade to Intrepid. Unfortunately, none of the suggested fixes have worked, although there are so many posts that I have not read them all yet. Somewhere I read that Intrepid uses some new deal with X, but I cannot find where I read it to report exactly what changes were made. I can say with certainty that the changes were not necessarily a good idea. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. Meantime, warnings to those considering the upgrade to Intrepid. Double check your video issues before doing it. Maybe I'll bring the desktop to the Clinic on Sunday and people can poke at it as an exercise in how not to do an upgrade. :) From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Thu Nov 13 22:07:20 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:07:20 +0000 Subject: [PLUG] ReactOS not playing nice with VSFTP on CentOS box... Message-ID: <491D1598.6060605@robinson-west.com> CentOS to CentOS works no problemo for ftp. It's when I try ReactOS 0.3.7 running under vmware workstation 6 that there's a problem. I keep getting a 421 error and then a message that the server has disconnected. It may be the fault of ReactOS's ftp.exe program which I figured would be fixed by svn 37350. I have tried both bridged networking and nat networking. I unloaded the firewall on the host and even tried loading ip_conntrack_ftp. Thunderbird sort of works in ReactOS. The icons get screwed up, but besides that it works fine. I'm using thunderbird under ReactOS 0.3.7 to type this email. From ronabop at gmail.com Thu Nov 13 22:55:55 2008 From: ronabop at gmail.com (Ronald Chmara) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:55:55 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Intrepid hoses X In-Reply-To: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4092D9AF-C734-45C5-8ED6-86DD4DF7834A@gmail.com> On Nov 13, 2008, at 9:40 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > My laptop is my main computer and I refuse to upgrade to Intrepid > for a > while yet. But I did decide to upgrade my desktop to Intrepid just to > see what would happen. > > The desktop uses an nVidia GeForce 6150.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo...... Okay, I guess I'm too late. There are new drivers, driver settings, kernel modules, xorg configs, (etc.) to consider with Intrepid. There are release notes, README's, open and closed drivers to weigh, and a large number of forum posts, listserv posts, and blogs to read. Long story short: If you have a (one, single) fairly new-ish (at least 6 months old, though) nVidia card, *and* one monitor, *and* that monitor is running in 1024x768 in landscape mode, *and* you don't want to use your card's effects/GPU/RAM, you're just about golden. If, OTOH, you have multiple video cards, or custom screen resolutions or orientations, or need maximum stability and performance, there's some homework to be done ahead of time. > Somewhere I read that Intrepid uses some new deal with X, but I cannot > find where I read it to report exactly what changes were made. From: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/810 "nVidia "legacy" video support The 71 and 96 series of proprietary nVidia drivers, as provided by the nvidia-glx-legacy and nvidia-glx packages in Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, are not compatible with the X.Org included in Ubuntu 8.10. Users with the nVidia TNT, TNT2, TNT Ultra, GeForce, GeForce2, GeForce3, and GeForce4 chipsets are affected and will be transitioned on upgrade to the free nv driver instead. This driver does not support 3D acceleration. Users of other nVidia chipsets that are supported by the 173 or 177 driver series will be transitioned to the nvidia-glx-173 or nvidia- glx-177 package instead. However, unlike drivers 96 and 71, drivers 173 and 177 are only compatible with CPUs that support SSE (e.g. Intel Pentium III, AMD Athlon XP or higher). Systems with older CPUs will also be transitioned to the nv driver on upgrade. " ....Yeah, it's a mess. -Bop From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 13 23:18:34 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:18:34 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time In-Reply-To: <200811131028.47772.griffint@pobox.com> References: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> <200811131028.47772.griffint@pobox.com> Message-ID: <1226647114.17985.14.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 10:28 -0800, Terry Griffin wrote: > On Thursday 13 November 2008 8:30 am, linux-yug wrote: > > HI > > > > Had a power outage last night and the computer rebooted. > > > > Now my time is off by one hour.. > > > > I checked and I am set to Pacific.. > > > > So if I am set the the correct time zone why am I off an hour?? > > > > TIA > > > > linux-yug > > > > A theory: > 1. Your Linux system is configure to set your hardware clock to local time, > not UCT. > 2. Your computer had been up and running since the change to standard time. > 3. So your hardware clock had never been synced to standard time, because the > hardware clock is normally synced to the system clock during shutdown. But > since you had an unclean shutdown this syncing never happend. > 4. When it booted back up, the system clock was synced to the hardware clock > under the assumption that the hardware clock was set to standard time when in > reality it was still set to daylight time. > > Use the 'hwclock' utility to set/check the hardware clock. See the hwclock(8) > man page. > > Generally with Linux you should configure the system to set the hardware clock > to UCT. Then you don't run in to these sorts of problems. The exception is > when you are dual-booting with Windows. In that case it usually works out > better to configure Linux to set the hardware clock to local time to match > how Windows does it. > > Terry > Thanks for the answer I went back to what I did before NTPD.. rdate time.mit.edu hwclock -w Now things look normal again TIA linux-yug From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 13 23:19:02 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:19:02 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] time In-Reply-To: <491C6433.7040700@pacifier.com> References: <1226593811.17985.2.camel@localhost> <491C6433.7040700@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <1226647142.17985.16.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 09:30 -0800, Wayne E. Van Loon Sr. wrote: > linux-yug wrote: > > HI > > > > Had a power outage last night and the computer rebooted. > > > > Now my time is off by one hour.. > > > > I checked and I am set to Pacific.. > > > What date does your machine show? Correct date.. > > So if I am set the the correct time zone why am I off an hour?? > > > > TIA > > > > linux-yug > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Fri Nov 14 00:13:03 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:13:03 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Intrepid hoses X In-Reply-To: <4092D9AF-C734-45C5-8ED6-86DD4DF7834A@gmail.com> References: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> <4092D9AF-C734-45C5-8ED6-86DD4DF7834A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081114001303.1fea9a99.johnxj@comcast.net> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:55:55 -0800 Ronald Chmara dijo: > If, OTOH, you have multiple video cards, or custom screen resolutions > or orientations, or need maximum stability and performance, there's > some homework to be done ahead of time. > > > Somewhere I read that Intrepid uses some new deal with X, but I cannot > > find where I read it to report exactly what changes were made. > > From: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/810 > > "nVidia "legacy" video support > > The 71 and 96 series of proprietary nVidia drivers, as provided by > the nvidia-glx-legacy and nvidia-glx packages in Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, are > not compatible with the X.Org included in Ubuntu 8.10. Users with the > nVidia TNT, TNT2, TNT Ultra, GeForce, GeForce2, GeForce3, and > GeForce4 chipsets are affected and will be transitioned on upgrade to > the free nv driver instead. This driver does not support 3D > acceleration. > > Users of other nVidia chipsets that are supported by the 173 or 177 > driver series will be transitioned to the nvidia-glx-173 or nvidia- > glx-177 package instead. However, unlike drivers 96 and 71, drivers > 173 and 177 are only compatible with CPUs that support SSE (e.g. > Intel Pentium III, AMD Athlon XP or higher). Systems with older CPUs > will also be transitioned to the nv driver on upgrade. " Fro further reading in the Ubuntu forums several have had luck by uninstalling all the nvidia proprietary things via synaptic. I had already edited xorg.conf to set the driver to "nv" so I uninstalled anything proprietary. Having done that I am worse off - no keyboard and no mouse. Both are USB (and no, I have no other kinds of mice or keyboards easily available to try), but I suspect that it is not the USB that is the problem - uninstalling all the proprietary stuff hosed enough of X that I no longer have mouse or keyboard. The keyboard does still work in recovery mode. My xorg.conf file does list resolutions up to 1680 x 1024. Before I hosed the mouse and keyboard the only resolutions available in the GUI were a max of 1024 x 768 in spite of the higher resolutions available in xorg.conf. Of course, I can no longer log in with the GUI. In recovery mode I tried Repair Broken Packages and Try to Fix X Server, but neither did anything. I can drop to a root command prompt. And when the screensaver comes on in recovery mode I have to reboot because without a mouse or a keyboard I cannot restore the desktop. I may have to reinstall. And if I do it sure won't be Intrepid. Intrepid itself may be OK, but the latest version of X.org that comes with it was not ready. Thanks for the comments. :) From davek52 at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 04:48:17 2008 From: davek52 at gmail.com (David Kaplan) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:48:17 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Intrepid hoses X In-Reply-To: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <98afdbcd0811140448meae8889q5020656007f77f26@mail.gmail.com> Upgrades always cause problems. I found that with Feisty and Hardy. Back up files and do a clean install. Less headaches. On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 9:40 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > My laptop is my main computer and I refuse to upgrade to Intrepid for a > while yet. But I did decide to upgrade my desktop to Intrepid just to > see what would happen. > > The desktop uses an nVidia GeForce 6150 on the motherboard connected to > a Samsung SyncMaster 206BW monitor. It worked fine with the > nvidia-glx-new driver under Hardy at 1680 x 1050. After the upgrade X > would not start. By editing the xorg.conf file and replacing "nvidia" > with "nv" I got X to start, but it is VESA 1024 x 768. I've tried > several things to no avail. The Ubuntu forums are replete with video > problems after the upgrade to Intrepid. Unfortunately, none of the > suggested fixes have worked, although there are so many posts that I > have not read them all yet. > > Somewhere I read that Intrepid uses some new deal with X, but I cannot > find where I read it to report exactly what changes were made. I can > say with certainty that the changes were not necessarily a good idea. > > If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. Meantime, warnings to > those considering the upgrade to Intrepid. Double check your video > issues before doing it. > > Maybe I'll bring the desktop to the Clinic on Sunday and people can > poke at it as an exercise in how not to do an upgrade. :) > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Fri Nov 14 19:51:16 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:51:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? Message-ID: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> I'm still trying to fix my broken Hardy > Intrepid update on my desktop. At the moment I can get it to boot in graphics mode at 800 x 600, but the mouse and keyboard are dead. Or I can boot into Recovery mode which gives me a screen from which I can boot to a root command line, and the keyboard at least is then working. However, I just discovered that the network is also dead. That is, my router is 192.168.0.1 and if I ping it I just get "network is not available." Ifconfig shows only lo. Lsmod does not display anything that sounds like a driver for the ethernet, which is: 0:.14.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Ethernet Controller (rev a3) Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed on the computer. Therefore I'd rather fix the broken Intrepid. Besides, fixing stuff is always a learning experience. One thing that would be a big help would be to be able to view what is happening when it boots into Recovery mode. However, the screen flashes by so fast that it is impossible to read the boot messages. Does anyone know if there is a magic key combination that will pause the boot process so I can read the screen? From creswick at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 20:06:44 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:06:44 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 7:51 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > working. However, I just discovered that the network is also > dead. That is, my router is 192.168.0.1 and if I ping it I just get > "network is not available." Ifconfig shows only lo. Lsmod does > not display anything that sounds like a driver for the ethernet, > which is: > There is a very good chance that parts of the networking infrastructure are intentionally disabled during recovery mode. See if you can start it up manually, something like: /etc/init.d/networking restart (run as root) might do it. 'dmesg' will also show you the majority, if not all, of the things that flash by during a boot (along with other logging-like things). --Rogan From blitters at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 20:59:36 2008 From: blitters at gmail.com (Steve D...) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:59:36 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB Message-ID: A friend of mine recently picked up a cheap little IBM T40 laptop with a missing hard drive. I found out why it was cheap when I tried to insert a drive and install Linux. The hard disk driver on the motherboard is kaput. Everything else on the machine appears to work fine. It looks like a replacement motherboard on eBay runs around $100-150. I was thinking about forgetting the new motherboard and hard drive and go to a USB flash based distro instead. A 8-Gig flash and a small USB hub is only $20-30. I installed Damn Small Linux (DSL) on a 512Mb USB flash thumb drive last night. The T40 booted on DSL and seemed to run OK. Is anyone else running a machine off a USB flash drive? Would it be a stable method to operate a laptop? The T40 will only see moderate use. She does most of her computing on a more powerful desktop system. Steve D... -- "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." ~Andrew S. Tanenbaem, Computer Networks, 4th Ed. p.91 From larry.brigman at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 22:25:19 2008 From: larry.brigman at gmail.com (Larry Brigman) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:25:19 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Steve D... wrote: > A friend of mine recently picked up a cheap little IBM T40 laptop > with a missing hard drive. I found out why it was cheap when I tried > to insert a drive and install Linux. The hard disk driver on the > motherboard is kaput. Everything else on the machine appears to work > fine. > > It looks like a replacement motherboard on eBay runs around > $100-150. I was thinking about forgetting the new motherboard and > hard drive and go to a USB flash based distro instead. A 8-Gig flash > and a small USB hub is only $20-30. I installed Damn Small Linux > (DSL) on a 512Mb USB flash thumb drive last night. The T40 booted on > DSL and seemed to run OK. > > Is anyone else running a machine off a USB flash drive? Would it be > a stable method to operate a laptop? The T40 will only see moderate > use. She does most of her computing on a more powerful desktop > system. > At the Red Hat summit in Boston, the Fedora team unveiled persistent storage on USB with the Full Fedora 9 Desktop. Full system and persistence on 2GB. https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ From engagedtone at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 22:55:49 2008 From: engagedtone at gmail.com (Amy Kelly) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:55:49 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > At the Red Hat summit in Boston, the Fedora team unveiled persistent storage > on USB with the Full Fedora 9 Desktop. Full system and persistence on 2GB. > > https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ Best tool ever. It'll write pretty much anyt .iso to a USB stick or a SD card, I'm having fun using it to distro-surf on the eee I got. -- Amy Kelly // engagedtone at gmail.com From blitters at gmail.com Fri Nov 14 23:08:42 2008 From: blitters at gmail.com (Steve D...) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:08:42 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 10:55 PM, Amy Kelly wrote: >> At the Red Hat summit in Boston, the Fedora team unveiled persistent storage >> on USB with the Full Fedora 9 Desktop. Full system and persistence on 2GB. >> >> https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ > > Best tool ever. It'll write pretty much anyt .iso to a USB stick or a > SD card, I'm having fun using it to distro-surf on the eee I got. Sweet! Have you tried doing a full installation with multimedia apps, Firefox plugins, Java, and OpenOffice? Steve D... -- "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." ~Andrew S. Tanenbaem, Computer Networks, 4th Ed. p.91 From wamorita at hevanet.com Fri Nov 14 23:46:46 2008 From: wamorita at hevanet.com (William A Morita) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:46:46 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve Sounds like you already have a laptop drive. You could get one of those small laptop drive enclosures for about $20 that plug into USB. There would be a lot more space that the USB key. - Bill wamorita at hevanet.com -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Steve D... Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:00 PM To: General Linux/UNIX discussion and help,civil and on-topic Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB A friend of mine recently picked up a cheap little IBM T40 laptop with a missing hard drive. I found out why it was cheap when I tried to insert a drive and install Linux. The hard disk driver on the motherboard is kaput. Everything else on the machine appears to work fine. It looks like a replacement motherboard on eBay runs around $100-150. I was thinking about forgetting the new motherboard and hard drive and go to a USB flash based distro instead. A 8-Gig flash and a small USB hub is only $20-30. I installed Damn Small Linux (DSL) on a 512Mb USB flash thumb drive last night. The T40 booted on DSL and seemed to run OK. Is anyone else running a machine off a USB flash drive? Would it be a stable method to operate a laptop? The T40 will only see moderate use. She does most of her computing on a more powerful desktop system. Steve D... -- "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." ~Andrew S. Tanenbaem, Computer Networks, 4th Ed. p.91 _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From engagedtone at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 11:20:37 2008 From: engagedtone at gmail.com (Amy Kelly) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:20:37 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Sweet! Have you tried doing a full installation with multimedia > apps, Firefox plugins, Java, and OpenOffice? > > Steve D... I got the full install of the Fedora 10 beta and Ubuntu 8.10 to run on the eee, it's one of the ones they're selling at Target. Bought some extra RAM at Pacific Solutions and it's pretty happy. They come with a 4GB drive and 512MB of RAM, bumped the RAM to 2GB. It's a fun toy to play with and the reactions people have to it are the best. "That's a LAPTOP? How much did it cost?" "$300 at Target, it gets online and you can use office software on it!" ".... I so could afford one of those." This is from some of the employees at the KFC on 99W in Tigard yesterday. :D -- Amy Kelly // engagedtone at gmail.com From blitters at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 12:57:57 2008 From: blitters at gmail.com (Steve D...) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:57:57 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 11:46 PM, William A Morita wrote: > > Sounds like you already have a laptop drive. > You could get one of those small laptop drive enclosures for about $20 that > plug into USB. > There would be a lot more space that the USB key. The drive is mine... It's the Linux drive for my M$ laptop. It's usually a Linux machine. I only swap drives when I want to run a couple of MS-only CAD programs. Steve D... -- "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." ~Andrew S. Tanenbaem, Computer Networks, 4th Ed. p.91 From johnxj at comcast.net Sat Nov 15 13:00:19 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:00:19 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Intrepid hoses X In-Reply-To: <4092D9AF-C734-45C5-8ED6-86DD4DF7834A@gmail.com> References: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> <4092D9AF-C734-45C5-8ED6-86DD4DF7834A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081115130019.c87fc936.johnxj@comcast.net> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:55:55 -0800 Ronald Chmara dijo: > > The desktop uses an nVidia GeForce 6150.... > There are new drivers, driver settings, kernel modules, xorg configs, > (etc.) to consider with Intrepid. There are release notes, README's, > open and closed drivers to weigh, and a large number of forum posts, > listserv posts, and blogs to read. OK, I have been researching and trying to fix this thing. Here's what is currently wrong: If I boot to the normal option X comes up with the wrong resolution, but it does come up. However, the mouse is completely dead and the keyboard works with Alt-Control-Fn keys only. I cannot log in with the GUI because I cannot enter keystrokes in the login window. All I can do is shell to a command line with Alt-Ctrl-F1. In the shell the keyboard does work. Or I can just boot to Recovery mode and then to the root shell, at which time the keyboard works also. The other options on the Recovery window do not help (Repair X server, Repair broken packages). The network is also down. Lspci tells me that these are the video and ethernet devices: 00:14.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Ethernet Controller (rev ad) 00:05.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C51PV [GeForce 6150] (rev a2) There is no wireless device in this computer. If I do ifconfig all it shows is lo. If I ping my router it says "the network is unreachable." I have learned that keyboard and mouse are no longer controlled by /etc/X11/xorg.conf. They are controlled now by HAL, and the old sections in the xorg.conf file have been commented out. I learned that you can fix your keyboard with dpkg-reconfigure console-setup. This appeared to work and it even detected the keyboard (LogiEX115). But after saving the settings I still have no keyboard in the GUI. I haven't found an equivalent command for fixing the mouse, which is a Logitech wireless USB mouse. The following made no difference: o swapping the mouse and keyboard for old wired ones. o uncommenting the old keyboard and mouse settings in xorg.conf o running sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg o adding the busid to the section describing the GeForce 6150 At this point it seems to me that the most important thing to fix is the network. I can't install new things without a network. So my immediate need is to figure out the module that the ethernet uses. Lsmod did not reveal anything that sounded like an ethernet module. Of course, that is because it is not loaded. If I knew the name of the module I could poke at it and maybe wake it up. I could reinstall, but there are a ton of programs installed on this computer, and even more in Windows 2000 running in Virtualbox. It would take many hours of work to reinstall everything. Besides, fixing stuff is educational, if exasperating. I suspect this computer is going to be at the Clinic tomorrow. :( From m0gely at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 13:07:54 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:07:54 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> John Jason Jordan wrote: > Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed on the computer. 2 days to reinstall giving you a clean system vs. the 2 days you've spent so far and if you got it working tonight you would have a somewhat working, somewhat not, all kinds of other weirdness under the hood yet to be discovered, desktop? -- m0gely From johnxj at comcast.net Sat Nov 15 13:33:33 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:33:33 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:07:54 -0800 m0gely dijo: > John Jason Jordan wrote: > > > Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed on the computer. > > 2 days to reinstall giving you a clean system vs. the 2 days you've > spent so far and if you got it working tonight you would have a somewhat > working, somewhat not, all kinds of other weirdness under the hood yet > to be discovered, desktop? I would learn nothing from reinstalling. Learning how to fix things is much more profitable. From johnxj at comcast.net Sat Nov 15 13:36:14 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:36:14 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081115133614.e44c6226.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 13:07:54 -0800 m0gely dijo: > John Jason Jordan wrote: > > > Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed on the computer. > > 2 days to reinstall giving you a clean system vs. the 2 days you've > spent so far and if you got it working tonight you would have a somewhat > working, somewhat not, all kinds of other weirdness under the hood yet > to be discovered, desktop? Forgot to add that the problem appears to be that the upgrade to X.org hoses video drivers a lot. So a clean install would likely result in a broken system as well. From johnxj at comcast.net Sat Nov 15 15:48:29 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:48:29 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> I think I have found the source of all my troubles, except I don't know how to fix it. I ran lsmod and found a module that I suspected might not be running properly. So I did a modprobe, only to be told that there was no modules file in the folder for 2.6.24-19. Sure enough, the file was not there. But there sure was a dandy modules file in the folder for 2.6.27-7. A quick "uname -a" revealed that I had booted to 2.6.24-19. Looking in /boot/grub/menu.lst reveals no such boot option. The menu.lst file correctly shows the new kernel for Intrepid (2.6.27-7). So then I rebooted and hit esc to get the menu. The menu on the screen lists only 2.6.24-19. The menu.lst file says only 2.6.27-7. WTF? All my woes - ethernet not working, keyboard not working, mouse not working - are probably due to the fact that I am running the wrong kernel for the drivers installed by Intrepid. (Side comment: I renamed /etc/X11/xorg.conf to xorg.conf.jjj and rebooted. X still came up (sans keyboard or mouse) as before. No new xorg.conf file was generated. Evidently you really can run Intrepid without an xorg.conf file.) I did "locate vmlinuz" and it found /vmlinuz and /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic. There are no other vmlinuz* files on the machine. I ran sudo update-grub, but it made no difference. The menu.lst file is the same (2.6.27-7) and the menu on screen still shows 2.6.24-19. Intrepid x86_64 (updated from Hardy) is the only OS installed on the computer. I have a passing familiarity with grub, but this has me flummoxed. The ghost of 2.6.24-19 refuses to leave. I'm about to call in a priest. Any suggestions? From russell at personaltelco.net Sat Nov 15 16:16:46 2008 From: russell at personaltelco.net (Russell Senior) Date: 15 Nov 2008 16:16:46 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "John" == John Jason Jordan writes: John> Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a John> couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed John> on the computer. [...] John> I would learn nothing from reinstalling. Learning how to fix John> things is much more profitable. Oh, I think the tedium of reinstalling would help reinforce the undesireability of deleting random files (if I recall your story correctly) from your machine. ;-) I have avoided nvidia-based boards because I don't like relying on disinterested companies providing needed drivers, so I don't really know what your problem is, but it sounds a lot like you deleted drivers for the various hardware that stopped working. If you have a record of what you deleted (perhaps in your shell history?) or can remember, and can find the originals somewhere, you might be able to re-extract the fat from the fire. Sounds like a lot of fun! ;-) -- Russell Senior, Secretary russell at personaltelco.net From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Nov 15 16:22:03 2008 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:22:03 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 15:48 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > I have a passing familiarity with grub, but this has me flummoxed. The > ghost of 2.6.24-19 refuses to leave. I'm about to call in a priest. Any > suggestions? I'm guessing that you accidentally created a new /boot and installed the new grub to to your new /boot partition instead of the MBR. If that is the case, the following should fix your system: sudo grub-install /dev/sda WARNING! This will replace the boot loader in your MBR. If you have multiple operating systems installed, you might not be able to boot the others without modifying your grub config. It's not that hard to juggle boot loaders, but I'm too lazy to go into detail since I doubt you're doing it. From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Sat Nov 15 16:47:57 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:47:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Stuart Jansen wrote: > Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:22:03 -0700 > From: Stuart Jansen > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Borked grub! > > On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 15:48 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: >> I have a passing familiarity with grub, but this has me flummoxed. The >> ghost of 2.6.24-19 refuses to leave. I'm about to call in a priest. Any >> suggestions? > > I'm guessing that you accidentally created a new /boot and installed the > new grub to to your new /boot partition instead of the MBR. > > If that is the case, the following should fix your system: > > sudo grub-install /dev/sda > > WARNING! This will replace the boot loader in your MBR. If you have > multiple operating systems installed, you might not be able to boot the > others without modifying your grub config. > > It's not that hard to juggle boot loaders, but I'm too lazy to go into > detail since I doubt you're doing it. I'm coming into this thread late, so I may have missed some critical info, but nevertheless this may be worth pointing out: /boot is generally mouted to a partition of its own. If /boot is mounted properly, then when you do an ls -l /boot you are seeing the contents of that partition. If you umount /boot and then do an ls -l /boot, you see stuff under /boot that is on the root filesystem's partition. Mounting /boot masks whatever may be in /boot on the root filesystem. Try this: - umount /boot - touch /boot/helloworld.txt - ls -l /boot/ you should see helloworld.txt - mount /boot - ls -l /boot/ you should NOT see helloworld.txt - umount /boot - ls -l /boot/ you should see helloworld.txt again Carlos From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Sat Nov 15 16:51:14 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:51:14 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Nov 2008, Russell Senior wrote: > Date: 15 Nov 2008 16:16:46 -0800 > From: Russell Senior > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Pause booting? > >>>>>> "John" == John Jason Jordan writes: > > John> Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a > John> couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed > John> on the computer. > > [...] > > John> I would learn nothing from reinstalling. Learning how to fix > John> things is much more profitable. > > Oh, I think the tedium of reinstalling would help reinforce the > undesireability of deleting random files (if I recall your story > correctly) from your machine. ;-) > > -- > Russell Senior, Secretary > russell at personaltelco.net Agreed. The knowledge required to do a file-by-file reconstruction of the system goes well beyond any one person's abilities. The really smart linux guru would recognize this immediately, and restore from backup. Carlos From davek52 at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 17:04:35 2008 From: davek52 at gmail.com (David Kaplan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:04:35 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <98afdbcd0811151704v503e1f5pf57288c54c378068@mail.gmail.com> Start over and do a clean install. You can only take so much frustration. On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 3:48 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > I think I have found the source of all my troubles, except I don't know > how to fix it. > > I ran lsmod and found a module that I suspected might not be running > properly. So I did a modprobe, only to be told that there was no > modules file in the folder for 2.6.24-19. Sure enough, the file was not > there. But there sure was a dandy modules file in the folder for > 2.6.27-7. A quick "uname -a" revealed that I had booted to 2.6.24-19. > Looking in /boot/grub/menu.lst reveals no such boot option. The > menu.lst file correctly shows the new kernel for Intrepid (2.6.27-7). > So then I rebooted and hit esc to get the menu. The menu on the screen > lists only 2.6.24-19. The menu.lst file says only 2.6.27-7. WTF? > > All my woes - ethernet not working, keyboard not working, mouse not > working - are probably due to the fact that I am running the wrong > kernel for the drivers installed by Intrepid. > > (Side comment: I renamed /etc/X11/xorg.conf to xorg.conf.jjj and > rebooted. X still came up (sans keyboard or mouse) as before. No new > xorg.conf file was generated. Evidently you really can run Intrepid > without an xorg.conf file.) > > I did "locate vmlinuz" and it found /vmlinuz > and /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic. There are no other vmlinuz* files > on the machine. > > I ran sudo update-grub, but it made no difference. The menu.lst file is > the same (2.6.27-7) and the menu on screen still shows 2.6.24-19. > > Intrepid x86_64 (updated from Hardy) is the only OS installed on the > computer. > > I have a passing familiarity with grub, but this has me flummoxed. The > ghost of 2.6.24-19 refuses to leave. I'm about to call in a priest. Any > suggestions? > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Sat Nov 15 17:16:31 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:16:31 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> Message-ID: <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:22:03 -0700 Stuart Jansen dijo: > On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 15:48 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > > I have a passing familiarity with grub, but this has me flummoxed. The > > ghost of 2.6.24-19 refuses to leave. I'm about to call in a priest. Any > > suggestions? > > I'm guessing that you accidentally created a new /boot and installed the > new grub to to your new /boot partition instead of the MBR. > > If that is the case, the following should fix your system: > > sudo grub-install /dev/sda Thanks for the idea. But I still haven't got it fixed. First, *I* didn't create a new boot, but the Hardy > Intrepid upgrade may have. Is there a way to find out where the MBR is? Second, the boot partition is a RAID partition (dev/md1). From man grub-install it says INSTALL_DEVICE can be a GRUB device name or a system device filename. So I did "sudo grub-install /dev/md1." It appeared to work, but when I rebooted I still got only the 2.6.24-19 option. Here is what the menu.lst file says in the automagic section: title Ubuntu 8.10, kernel 2.6.27-7-generic root (hd0,0) kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic root=/dev/md1 ro quiet splash initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.27-7-generic And then there is a recovery mode for the same kernel, followed by memtest86+, and that's all. When I look at the boot menu during the boot process (hitting esc when the grub menu comes up) I see that the boot option is also set to (hd0,0) and root is dev/md1. Still confused. From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Nov 15 18:49:37 2008 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:49:37 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1226803777.7222.15.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 17:16 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > So I did "sudo grub-install /dev/md1." It appeared to work, but when I rebooted I still got only the 2.6.24-19 option. There's your problem. Grub can't boot from a software RAID device. (And don't get any fancy ideas about RAID 1, that way lies madness if you have to perform a recovery.) From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Nov 15 18:51:56 2008 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:51:56 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1226803916.7222.17.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 17:16 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Is there a way to find out where the MBR is? BTW, if you'd bothered to check wikipedia to find out what an MBR is, you'd understand that question makes no sense. From linux-yug at xprt.net Sat Nov 15 19:26:42 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:26:42 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <1226803916.7222.17.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226803916.7222.17.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> Message-ID: <1226806002.4708.15.camel@localhost> On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 19:51 -0700, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 17:16 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > > Is there a way to find out where the MBR is? > > BTW, if you'd bothered to check wikipedia to find out what an MBR is, > you'd understand that question makes no sense. > > > _______ Sometimes it is easier to ask.. This net is suppose to be for helping out with problems. MBR is a well know location on the beginning of the hard drive.. And now for the life of me.. I can't remember how I used to read it.. Ok now it comes back dd if=/dev/hda of=mbrcontent bs=1 count=512 Then I had to download hexedit to read it.... Anyway HTH Linux-yug.. From johnxj at comcast.net Sat Nov 15 23:21:56 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:21:56 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Clinic Sunday! Message-ID: <20081115232156.f809e9a7.johnxj@comcast.net> It's almost here! Just another reminder. Because we know you can't wait! Where: Free Geek, 1741 S.E. 10th, Portland When: 1 to 5 pm What: Fixing and installing stuff Who: Anyone who needs help, anyone who can give it, and anyone who just wants to watch And there will be the usual coffee, cookies and chips. See you there! From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Sat Nov 15 23:27:49 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (robinson-west user) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:27:49 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Any post fedora projects? Message-ID: <1226820469.25204.9.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> There used to be fedora-legacy. Are there any post release projects left for fedora? By post release, I mean updates for say Fedora Core 9 when Fedora Core 10 comes out. I'm interested in a less bleeding edge than the latest version of fedora distro without losing compatibility with fedora. Just curious. It seems if you want to update fedora core 1 these days because say you don't know how to get Exult to work on any other release of fedora that you are out of luck. One thing I'd like to see is a fedora-lite project that takes the latest version of Fedora and streamlines it to work on older hardware. A k6-2 500 for example or a Pentium 200 mmx for that matter are pretty low end machines now where freedos isn't appropriate for say a file server and all the bloat of current gnome implementations will bring these machines to their knees. A lot of people say go buy an NAS box, but then what do you do with your old machines? I run some older releases of Linux such as Slackware 10 and fedora core 1 on low end servers. I'd like to replace those systems with something more up to date which is just as light. I'd like to see significant work done on getting Linux distributions as a whole lighter. From drl at drloree.com Sat Nov 15 23:33:16 2008 From: drl at drloree.com (Derek Loree) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:33:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1226820796.3530.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 17:16 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:22:03 -0700 > Stuart Jansen dijo: > > > On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 15:48 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > > > I have a passing familiarity with grub, but this has me flummoxed. The > > > ghost of 2.6.24-19 refuses to leave. I'm about to call in a priest. Any > > > suggestions? > > > > I'm guessing that you accidentally created a new /boot and installed the > > new grub to to your new /boot partition instead of the MBR. > > > > If that is the case, the following should fix your system: > > > > sudo grub-install /dev/sda > > Thanks for the idea. But I still haven't got it fixed. > > First, *I* didn't create a new boot, but the Hardy > Intrepid upgrade may have. Is there a way to find out where the MBR is? > > Second, the boot partition is a RAID partition (dev/md1). From man grub-install it says > > INSTALL_DEVICE can be a GRUB device name or a system device filename. > > So I did "sudo grub-install /dev/md1." It appeared to work, but when I rebooted I still got only the 2.6.24-19 option. > > Here is what the menu.lst file says in the automagic section: > > title Ubuntu 8.10, kernel 2.6.27-7-generic > root (hd0,0) > kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic root=/dev/md1 ro quiet splash > initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.27-7-generic > > And then there is a recovery mode for the same kernel, followed by memtest86+, and that's all. > > When I look at the boot menu during the boot process (hitting esc when the grub menu comes up) I see that the boot option is also set to (hd0,0) and root is dev/md1. > > Still confused. > The boot loader needs to be loaded into the MBR of the drive that the BIOS initializes, 99.99% of the time this is the "Primary" hard drive. Your RAID device is not the device that the BIOS tries to start, in fact your RAID device is only a virtual device composed of several real devices. One of those devices is the device that the motherboard starts. Usually this would be /dev/sda unless it is old school and then it would most likely be /dev/hda. Notice that neither of these devices are partitions, so even though GRUB will install on a partition, or a hard drive, only a hard drive will be given the boot-up signal by the motherboard. Try running "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda" or "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/hda"; one of these should place GRUB in the MBR of the primary hard drive. Good Luck, > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug -- Derek Loree From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Nov 15 23:42:42 2008 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:42:42 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Any post fedora projects? In-Reply-To: <1226820469.25204.9.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1226820469.25204.9.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1226821362.29718.5.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 23:27 -0800, robinson-west user wrote: > There used to be fedora-legacy. Are there any post release projects > left for fedora? By post release, I mean updates for say Fedora Core 9 > when Fedora Core 10 comes out. Fedora support the current and previous release. So F9 & F10 will both be supported when F10 comes out in a little more than a week. BTW, starting with Fedora 7 it isn't called Fedora Core anymore. > I'd like to see significant work done on getting Linux distributions > as a whole lighter. You're welcome to start it yourself. Checkout the new(ish) tools for creating custom Fedora "Spins". https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins/What_is_a_spin From johnxj at comcast.net Sun Nov 16 00:01:57 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:01:57 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <1226820796.3530.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226820796.3530.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081116000157.a039cac6.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:33:16 -0800 Derek Loree dijo: > Try running "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda" > or "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/hda"; one of these > should place GRUB in the MBR of the primary hard drive. sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda gave me an error that /dev/md1 was not a directory. I changed to just / and the command worked. That is, now I get the proper kernel in the boot menu, but when I try to boot I get Error 15: File not found. I tried editing the line on the fly by changing root=/, root=/boot and root=/dev/md1, but still no joy. The problem may be that it is a sofware raid that doesn't exist until some point later in the boot process. But I found other instructions in the Grub manual suggesting that I should have said /boot instead of just /. Even though it won't boot at all now, I feel this is progress. At least I managed to change the instructions in the MBR. There are instructions on the Ubuntu forums for using a live CD to fix Grub. I'll poke at it some more in the morning. From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 09:07:09 2008 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:07:09 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200811160907.09321.ewilhelm@cpan.org> # from Steve D... # on Friday 14 November 2008: >? A friend of mine recently picked up a cheap little IBM T40 laptop >with a missing hard drive. ?I found out why it was cheap when I tried >to insert a drive and install Linux. ?The hard disk driver on the >motherboard is kaput. ?Everything else on the machine appears to work >fine. Does it have a CF slot? If so, is that working? (Maybe not, since AFAICT it ties into the IDE controller on the motherboard.) --Eric -- "It works better if you plug it in!" --Sattinger's Law --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From blitters at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 10:09:17 2008 From: blitters at gmail.com (Steve D...) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:09:17 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Flash Linux on USB In-Reply-To: <200811160907.09321.ewilhelm@cpan.org> References: <200811160907.09321.ewilhelm@cpan.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > # from Steve D... > # on Friday 14 November 2008: > >> A friend of mine recently picked up a cheap little IBM T40 laptop >>with a missing hard drive. I found out why it was cheap when I tried >>to insert a drive and install Linux. The hard disk driver on the >>motherboard is kaput. Everything else on the machine appears to work >>fine. > > Does it have a CF slot? If so, is that working? (Maybe not, since > AFAICT it ties into the IDE controller on the motherboard.) Nope, the T40 doesn't have a CF slot. Steve D... -- "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." ~Andrew S. Tanenbaem, Computer Networks, 4th Ed. p.91 From keithl at kl-ic.com Sun Nov 16 14:05:48 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:05:48 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Family PC duty again ... emachines 5312 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081116220547.GA5257@gate.kl-ic.com> Every visit to the inlaws, there is some computer or other that needs attention. Usually running XP. Gag. This time, the crippled beast is an Emachines 5312 laptop. There was a RAM error - I replaced the SIMM. The hard disk was corrupted - I replaced that and (forgive me!) reinstalled XP from the restore disks. I can still mount the old disk and pull files from it, so I did not want to write over the user data on it. And now the laptop ... is ... incredibly ... slow . 30 minutes to boot. 5 minutes to open IE. And if you aren't there watching it, it suspends, requiring 20 minutes to get back to a desktop. At least I had a good book to read while tending the machine. Fortunately, I always carry a few Ubuntu Heron CDs with me. The laptop boots Ubuntu Live in the normal amount of time, and runs applications fine. I can also dd the NTFS hard drive to /dev/null at a reasonable rate for a laptop - 20MB/sec - and work fast over the ethernet. I have a compelling argument for running Linux on this machine at least - it would have to be discarded/recycled otherwise. I suspect the fundamental problem is a corrupted BIOS - since Linux only uses the system BIOS for the first (and second?) stage boot loaders, it doesn't slow down much if most of the BIOS is corrupted. AFAIKS, reflashing the (Phoenix) BIOS isn't supported by Emachines, and third party sites charge $$$$ for the image. I'm not familiar with the behavior of boot viruses; I am told they are rare, but my inlaws seem to collect a copy of most other viruses. It is more likely that the problem is that Emachines are cheap garbage ... Anyway, Ubuntu is cheaper. Perhaps the inlaws will like it after using it for a while. Now all I have to do is keep my M$-only brother-in-law from attempting yet another install of XP on it and re-breaking it. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From joeniski at easystreet.net Sun Nov 16 14:43:23 2008 From: joeniski at easystreet.net (Joe Shisei Niski) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:43:23 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Intrepid hoses X In-Reply-To: <20081115130019.c87fc936.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081113214054.fda4051b.johnxj@comcast.net> <4092D9AF-C734-45C5-8ED6-86DD4DF7834A@gmail.com> <20081115130019.c87fc936.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4920A20B.9060901@easystreet.net> John Jason Jordan wrote: > > The network is also down. > > Lspci tells me that these are the video and ethernet devices: > > 00:14.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Ethernet Controller (rev ad) > 00:05.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation C51PV [GeForce 6150] (rev a2) > > There is no wireless device in this computer. If I do ifconfig all it shows is lo. If I ping my router it says "the network is unreachable." > > I have learned that keyboard and mouse are no longer controlled by /etc/X11/xorg.conf. They are controlled now by HAL, and the old sections in the xorg.conf file have been commented out. > > I learned that you can fix your keyboard with dpkg-reconfigure console-setup. This appeared to work and it even detected the keyboard (LogiEX115). But after saving the settings I still have no keyboard in the GUI. > > I haven't found an equivalent command for fixing the mouse, which is a Logitech wireless USB mouse. > > The following made no difference: > o swapping the mouse and keyboard for old wired ones. > o uncommenting the old keyboard and mouse settings in xorg.conf > o running sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg > o adding the busid to the section describing the GeForce 6150 > > At this point it seems to me that the most important thing to fix is the network. I can't install new things without a network. So my immediate need is to figure out the module that the ethernet uses. Lsmod did not reveal anything that sounded like an ethernet module. Of course, that is because it is not loaded. If I knew the name of the module I could poke at it and maybe wake it up. > i upgraded my employer-supplied Dell D620 laptop from Hardy to Intrepid two weeks ago - the upgrade went fine, except for networking. i could boot from the LiveCD and have access to the net, so i did some digging and found that this wasn't an uncommon problem (fwiw, under Hardy i was configured for a static ip and had set up a bridge interface on my only nic for VirtualBox to use). a simple apt-get -remove network-manager and then reinstalling it did the trick. The new NetworkManager is a bit better, but this glitch cost me 2 hours. i did a clean install of Intrepid on my personal machine (bye-bye- Vista partition, WinXP under VirtualBox is just fine). i have a ~1-yr old Nvidia card and all is well, although a few upgraded apps seem a tad less stable than before. Good luck with your input devices. ________________________________________ Joe Shisei Niski Portland, Oregon, USA From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Nov 16 14:54:25 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:54:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Family PC duty again ... emachines 5312 In-Reply-To: <20081116220547.GA5257@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081116220547.GA5257@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Now all I have to do is keep my M$-only brother-in-law from attempting yet > another install of XP on it and re-breaking it. Keith, Perhaps he'll switch to Vista just to give you something different to fix. :-) Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From m0gely at gmail.com Sun Nov 16 18:13:13 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:13:13 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Family PC duty again ... emachines 5312 In-Reply-To: <20081116220547.GA5257@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081116220547.GA5257@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <4920D339.2010106@gmail.com> Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Every visit to the inlaws, there is some computer or other that > needs attention. Usually running XP. Gag. > > This time, the crippled beast is an Emachines 5312 laptop. I would love to know what you did to make the display work. That has the same ATI Radeon Mobility IGP320 chip my HP laptop has. The video hasn't worked since 7.04. I have to use vesa most of the time to get X to start at 1024x768 and with no acceleration. The display is native 1400x1050. -- - m0gely From johnxj at comcast.net Sun Nov 16 23:20:08 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:20:08 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081116000157.a039cac6.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226820796.3530.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081116000157.a039cac6.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081116232008.17aa6892.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:01:57 -0800 John Jason Jordan dijo: > On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:33:16 -0800 > Derek Loree dijo: > > > Try running "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda" > > or "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/hda"; one of these > > should place GRUB in the MBR of the primary hard drive. > > sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda > > gave me an error that /dev/md1 was not a directory. I changed to just / > and the command worked. That is, now I get the proper kernel in the > boot menu, but when I try to boot I get Error 15: File not found. I > tried editing the line on the fly by changing root=/, root=/boot and > root=/dev/md1, but still no joy. > > The problem may be that it is a sofware raid that doesn't exist until > some point later in the boot process. But I found other instructions in > the Grub manual suggesting that I should have said /boot instead of > just /. > > Even though it won't boot at all now, I feel this is progress. At least > I managed to change the instructions in the MBR. > > There are instructions on the Ubuntu forums for using a live CD to fix > Grub. I'll poke at it some more in the morning. Well, it took five different rescue CDs and several hours of my time, not to mention y'all folks in PLUG-land who had to read my questions, but I finally did it. The video is still not correct, but I can fix that later. The important thing is that Intrepid is now booting to the GUI and the mouse, keyboard and network are all working perfectly. And for those who are curious about what happened, it seems that the Hardy > Intrepid upgrade updated the /boot files, but only on sda1, not on sdb1. I had those two in a RAID1 array as MD1. Even after I used Derek's hint and got the 2.6.27-7 kernel into the MBR, it could not find the files it needed to boot. I finally discovered that the correct files were on sdb1 but not on sda1 when I tried a Knoppix 5.01 live CD. This version of Knoppix automatically mounts all devices, except it does not understand RAID, so it mounted them as individual file systems. Looking at them both side by side I quickly realized where the 2.6.24-19 kernel was coming from - sda1. All the boot files on sda1 were the old Hardy files. Knoppix mounts the partitions read-only and, even as root, I couldn't seem to change that, so I shuffled through various other rescue CDs until I found one that would mount both devices and let me read/write to them. I used the scary command line to delete all the files in sda1's /boot folder, then copied them over from sdb1's boot folder. On rebooting (with fingers tightly crossed) Ubuntu Intrepid came up and all is well again. From ckonstansi at biology.uoregon.edu Sun Nov 16 23:43:42 2008 From: ckonstansi at biology.uoregon.edu (ckonstansi at biology.uoregon.edu) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:43:42 -0700 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081116232008.17aa6892.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226820796.3530.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081116000157.a039cac6.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081116232008.17aa6892.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <18721.8366.229513.539766@localhost.localdomain> John Jason Jordan writes: > On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:01:57 -0800 > John Jason Jordan dijo: > Knoppix mounts the partitions read-only and, even as root, I couldn't > seem to change that, so I shuffled through various other rescue CDs > until I found one that would mount both devices and let me read/write > to them. I used the scary command line to delete all the files in > sda1's /boot folder, then copied them over from sdb1's boot folder. On > rebooting (with fingers tightly crossed) Ubuntu Intrepid came up and > all is well again. Knoppix will mount the partitions any way you tell them to, just like any linux system. If you use the fstab file, you'll get what is in there. If you bypass the fstab file, you'll get whatever you specify in your mount command. This command uses the fstab file: mount /dev/hda1 This one does not use fstab: mount /dev/hda1 /boot The difference is that the first one does not specify both device and mount point. Therefore mount has to consult fstab to find a match. If one is found, the options in the fstab line are used. The second one specifies both the device and mount point, therefore fstab is not consulted, and you get default options (unless you specify some on the command line). This very same thing once burned me when I tried to mount /boot and run grub-install while booted from knoppix. When I mounted using fstab, I had the same problems you just had. Next time you are booted into Knoppix, have a peek at the fstab file. I'll bet you'll see exactly why you were getting hosed. -- Carlos From timb at tbruce.com Mon Nov 17 07:15:51 2008 From: timb at tbruce.com (Tim Bruce - PLUG) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:15:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <20081116232008.17aa6892.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226820796.3530.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081116000157.a039cac6.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081116232008.17aa6892.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <50784.192.168.8.16.1226934951.squirrel@sm.tbruce.com> On Sun, November 16, 2008 23:20, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 00:01:57 -0800 > John Jason Jordan dijo: > >> On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:33:16 -0800 >> Derek Loree dijo: >> >> > Try running "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda" >> > or "sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/hda"; one of >> these >> > should place GRUB in the MBR of the primary hard drive. >> >> sudo grub-install --root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda >> >> gave me an error that /dev/md1 was not a directory. I changed to just / >> and the command worked. That is, now I get the proper kernel in the >> boot menu, but when I try to boot I get Error 15: File not found. I >> tried editing the line on the fly by changing root=/, root=/boot and >> root=/dev/md1, but still no joy. >> >> The problem may be that it is a sofware raid that doesn't exist until >> some point later in the boot process. But I found other instructions in >> the Grub manual suggesting that I should have said /boot instead of >> just /. >> >> Even though it won't boot at all now, I feel this is progress. At least >> I managed to change the instructions in the MBR. >> >> There are instructions on the Ubuntu forums for using a live CD to fix >> Grub. I'll poke at it some more in the morning. > > Well, it took five different rescue CDs and several hours of my time, > not to mention y'all folks in PLUG-land who had to read my questions, > but I finally did it. The video is still not correct, but I can fix > that later. The important thing is that Intrepid is now booting to the > GUI and the mouse, keyboard and network are all working perfectly. > > And for those who are curious about what happened, it seems that the > Hardy > Intrepid upgrade updated the /boot files, but only on sda1, not > on sdb1. I had those two in a RAID1 array as MD1. Even after I used > Derek's hint and got the 2.6.27-7 kernel into the MBR, it could not > find the files it needed to boot. > > I finally discovered that the correct files were on sdb1 but not on > sda1 when I tried a Knoppix 5.01 live CD. This version of Knoppix > automatically mounts all devices, except it does not understand RAID, > so it mounted them as individual file systems. Looking at them both > side by side I quickly realized where the 2.6.24-19 kernel was coming > from - sda1. All the boot files on sda1 were the old Hardy files. > > Knoppix mounts the partitions read-only and, even as root, I couldn't > seem to change that, so I shuffled through various other rescue CDs > until I found one that would mount both devices and let me read/write > to them. I used the scary command line to delete all the files in > sda1's /boot folder, then copied them over from sdb1's boot folder. On > rebooting (with fingers tightly crossed) Ubuntu Intrepid came up and > all is well again. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > Knoppix defaults to mounting any partition as READ-ONLY. Right clicking on the partition after it's mounted there's an option to change (toggle) the mount status between READ-WRITE and READ-ONLY. Tim -- Timothy J. Bruce Registered Linux User #325725 From johnxj at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 09:22:51 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:22:51 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Borked grub! In-Reply-To: <50784.192.168.8.16.1226934951.squirrel@sm.tbruce.com> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081115154829.deb017b4.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226794923.7222.13.camel@simplicity.buscaluz.org> <20081115171631.a345ed3f.johnxj@comcast.net> <1226820796.3530.146.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081116000157.a039cac6.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081116232008.17aa6892.johnxj@comcast.net> <50784.192.168.8.16.1226934951.squirrel@sm.tbruce.com> Message-ID: <20081117092251.5e0a2ade.johnxj@comcast.net> On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:15:51 -0800 (PST) "Tim Bruce - PLUG" dijo: > > Well, it took five different rescue CDs and several hours of my time, > > not to mention y'all folks in PLUG-land who had to read my questions, > > but I finally did it. The video is still not correct, but I can fix > > that later. The important thing is that Intrepid is now booting to the > > GUI and the mouse, keyboard and network are all working perfectly. ... > > Knoppix mounts the partitions read-only and, even as root, I couldn't > > seem to change that, so I shuffled through various other rescue CDs > > until I found one that would mount both devices and let me read/write > > to them. I used the scary command line to delete all the files in > > sda1's /boot folder, then copied them over from sdb1's boot folder. On > > rebooting (with fingers tightly crossed) Ubuntu Intrepid came up and > > all is well again. > Knoppix defaults to mounting any partition as READ-ONLY. Right clicking > on the partition after it's mounted there's an option to change (toggle) > the mount status between READ-WRITE and READ-ONLY. Thanks to Tim and Carlos for that information. Knoppix generally makes a good rescue CD, but when I couldn't do it (for lack of knowing how) I just used some of my other rescue CDs. One of my favorites is GRML, but it could mount only sda1. Try as I might I could not get it to mount sdb1. Might have had something to do with the fact that they are parts of a RAID1 array. Eventually I succeeded with the Emergency and Cool Linux CD (Gentoo based). Now I have to go post what happened and how I finally fixed it on the Ubuntu forums. Perhaps I should file a bug report too. The upgrade to Hardy worked fine, but something is seriously wrong with Intrepid when it updates Grub on only one side of a RAID1 array. From johnxj at comcast.net Mon Nov 17 09:54:04 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:54:04 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] December Clinic Message-ID: <20081117095404.e92b3df7.johnxj@comcast.net> The Clinic has always been held on the third Sunday of the month. At the Clinic yesterday it was pointed out that this would make December's Clinic on the 21st. Christmas is just another day to me, but I fear the madness of the time may adversely impact things. We could move it to the 14th as an alternative. Personally it makes no difference to me, but it might to others. Discussion? From showard at k-hlaw.com Mon Nov 17 14:09:04 2008 From: showard at k-hlaw.com (Scott Howard) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:09:04 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] PLUG Digest, Vol 50, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The 14th Scott Howard From alan at clueserver.org Mon Nov 17 14:36:40 2008 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:36:40 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] ANNOUNCEMENT: PLUG Advanced Topics Meeting Wednesday November 19, 2008 Message-ID: <1226961400.6093.74.camel@rotwang.fnordora.org> Portland Linux/Unix Group Advanced Topics Meeting November 19th 2008 7pm - 9pm Jax Bar 826 SW 2nd Ave Portland, OR 97204 (503) 228-9128 Speaker: Russell Senior Topic: OpenWrt - It's not just for Linksys Routers anymore Russell has been fiddling around with OpenWrt for a couple years, on various platforms. He'll give a step-by-step on how to build OpenWrt for your device, various ways to get it onto your device, and how configuration is handled in the OpenWrt way. Normal meeting rules apply. From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Nov 17 19:06:36 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:06:36 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] December Clinic In-Reply-To: <20081117095404.e92b3df7.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081117095404.e92b3df7.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081118030636.GA9989@gate.kl-ic.com> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 09:54:04AM -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > The Clinic has always been held on the third Sunday of the month. At > the Clinic yesterday it was pointed out that this would make December's > Clinic on the 21st. Christmas is just another day to me, but I fear the > madness of the time may adversely impact things. We could move it to > the 14th as an alternative. Personally it makes no difference to me, > but it might to others. > > Discussion? I'm of two minds - the FreeGeek Store will be open that day, allowing important gifts to be bought. On the other hand, that will result in a lot of transient appearances, possibly by people wanting to do their christmas shopping sans cash. Given that some of our neediest/helpingist/loneliest people are still likely to show up, I say go for it - with the proviso that I might be in Maryland AGAIN. Typically, though, I like to travel on Christmas day - the planes are relatively empty, the fares are cheap, and atheist pilots might be more careful, if less inspired. So I can plan on being at the Clinic for once. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From iconoklastic at yahoo.com Tue Nov 18 11:27:11 2008 From: iconoklastic at yahoo.com (Robert Kopp) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:27:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] ReactOS not playing nice with VSFTP on CentOS box... References: <491D1598.6060605@robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <945702.97621.qm@web50612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This has gone unanswered for a while. ReactOS is an interesting concept, but it is still too buggy to diagnose problems easily: you're apparently supposed to be thankful for whatever functionality you have. Perhaps you should subscribe to their forum to solve such problems. Robert "Tim" Kopp http://analytic.tripod.com/ ________________________________ From: Michael Robinson To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:07:20 PM Subject: [PLUG] ReactOS not playing nice with VSFTP on CentOS box... CentOS to CentOS works no problemo for ftp. It's when I try ReactOS 0.3.7 running under vmware workstation 6 that there's a problem. I keep getting a 421 error and then a message that the server has disconnected. It may be the fault of ReactOS's ftp.exe program which I figured would be fixed by svn 37350. I have tried both bridged networking and nat networking. I unloaded the firewall on the host and even tried loading ip_conntrack_ftp. Thunderbird sort of works in ReactOS. The icons get screwed up, but besides that it works fine. I'm using thunderbird under ReactOS 0.3.7 to type this email. _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Wed Nov 19 01:50:25 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:50:25 +0000 Subject: [PLUG] Trouble building loki installer... Message-ID: <4923E161.4050400@robinson-west.com> Once upon a time using the loki demo I played simcity on a Redhat 9 box. Checking out icculus.org I have been able to grab the loki installer from CVS. I can't get loki_setupdb to compile where configure is looking for some file called xml-config that it can't find on my CentOS 5 system. I have tried to get the answer from google but this isn't working out. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Nov 19 06:26:28 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 06:26:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Firefox-2.0.0.18 Issues Message-ID: Firefox gets flaky now and then and becomes distracting and annoying in its misbehavior. Two issues that I cannot resolve and for which I ask for your thoughts. 1.) Since the upgrade to 2.0.0.18 many web pages display a bar at the top telling me I need more plugins to see all the wonderful eye-candy the page creator threw in. I fell for this the first time or two and it turns out the missing plugin is the flash player. But, that's already installed in the correct version for this firefox release. Where do I go to turn off this annoying message that moves the page display down to show me the bar? The display won't stay away when I close it, but repeats like oninons on a bad hamburger. 2.) There is a recipe page that I try to print to a file, but only the top portion of the web page actually makes it to the PostScript file. The file is 4 pages long, but the first, third, and fourth pages are blank. I've not had this happen with any other web page, and it's been happening with the current and past versions of firefox. I've no idea why it is messed up, nor do I have a clue what, if anything, can be done. Do you? Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Nov 19 08:27:20 2008 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:27:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Trouble building loki installer... In-Reply-To: <4923E161.4050400@robinson-west.com> References: <4923E161.4050400@robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Michael Robinson wrote: > Once upon a time using the loki demo I played simcity on a Redhat 9 > box. Checking out icculus.org I have been able to grab the loki > installer from CVS. I can't get loki_setupdb to compile where > configure is looking for some file called xml-config that it can't > find on my CentOS 5 system. I have tried to get the answer from > google but this isn't working out. The CentOS 5 libxml2-devel package includes xml2-config, which is the next revision of xml-config. You might need to alter the configure script or put a xml-config -> xml2-config symlink in your filesystem. -- Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> http://www.madboa.com/ From rsteff at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 12:57:09 2008 From: rsteff at comcast.net (Richard C. Steffens) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:57:09 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] e-commerce web hosting Message-ID: <49247DA5.8070304@comcast.net> A friend of mine is in need of e-commerce support for a web site he is developing for one of his businesses. He needs to be able to handle credit card purchases and wants a shopping cart. Any recommendations on who to send him to? -- Regards, Dick Steffens From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Wed Nov 19 17:40:23 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:40:23 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] e-commerce web hosting In-Reply-To: <49247DA5.8070304@comcast.net> References: <49247DA5.8070304@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Richard C. Steffens wrote: > Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:57:09 -0800 > From: Richard C. Steffens > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: PLUG List > Subject: [PLUG] e-commerce web hosting > > A friend of mine is in need of e-commerce support for a web site he is > developing for one of his businesses. He needs to be able to handle > credit card purchases and wants a shopping cart. > > Any recommendations on who to send him to? > > -- > Regards, > > Dick Steffens Does your friend ahve the ability/budget to write a custom cart within the website? If so, paypal is always an easy option. If not, Google Cart is used by some big players, like Sierra Trading Post. If a custom cart is desired, but expertise is needed to create it, I am always available. Gotta put a plug (no pun intended) in there whenever the opportunity presents itself. Carlos From alan at clueserver.org Wed Nov 19 18:52:15 2008 From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:52:15 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <1227149535.6285.1.camel@rotwang.fnordora.org> On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 16:16 -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "John" == John Jason Jordan writes: > > John> Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a > John> couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed > John> on the computer. > > [...] > > John> I would learn nothing from reinstalling. Learning how to fix > John> things is much more profitable. > > Oh, I think the tedium of reinstalling would help reinforce the > undesireability of deleting random files (if I recall your story > correctly) from your machine. ;-) > > I have avoided nvidia-based boards because I don't like relying on > disinterested companies providing needed drivers, so I don't really > know what your problem is, but it sounds a lot like you deleted > drivers for the various hardware that stopped working. If you have a > record of what you deleted (perhaps in your shell history?) or can > remember, and can find the originals somewhere, you might be able to > re-extract the fat from the fire. Sounds like a lot of fun! ;-) Or you can find someone else who uses HP laptops... Try using the "forcedeth" driver. modprobe forcedeth What kernel version are you using? From johnxj at comcast.net Wed Nov 19 19:34:32 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:34:32 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <1227149535.6285.1.camel@rotwang.fnordora.org> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1227149535.6285.1.camel@rotwang.fnordora.org> Message-ID: <20081119193432.5d9fae9f.johnxj@comcast.net> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:52:15 -0800 Alan dijo: > On Sat, 2008-11-15 at 16:16 -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > > >>>>> "John" == John Jason Jordan writes: > > > > John> Reinstalling from scratch is not a good option. It would take a > > John> couple of days to reinstall all the software that is installed > > John> on the computer. > > > > [...] > > > > John> I would learn nothing from reinstalling. Learning how to fix > > John> things is much more profitable. > > > > Oh, I think the tedium of reinstalling would help reinforce the > > undesireability of deleting random files (if I recall your story > > correctly) from your machine. ;-) Actually, the only time I deleted files was several years ago when I deleted my /bin folder. Recently, however, I took ownership of /usr as jjj, which caused problems. Hey, nobody ever told me not to! > > I have avoided nvidia-based boards because I don't like relying on > > disinterested companies providing needed drivers, so I don't really > > know what your problem is, but it sounds a lot like you deleted > > drivers for the various hardware that stopped working. If you have a > > record of what you deleted (perhaps in your shell history?) or can > > remember, and can find the originals somewhere, you might be able to > > re-extract the fat from the fire. Sounds like a lot of fun! ;-) > > Or you can find someone else who uses HP laptops... > > Try using the "forcedeth" driver. > > modprobe forcedeth > > What kernel version are you using? I wish you had asked that question several days ago, because the problem turned out to be exactly that - using the wrong kernel. I figured it out eventually, but it took several hours of poking around before I discovered what happened and even longer to figure out how to fix it. With Hardy I was using 2.6.24-19-generic. The upgrade to Intrepid installed 2.6.27-7-generic. Intrepid also installed new drivers and stuff that required the 2.6.27-7 kernel. By chance I stumbled upon the fact that my broken Intrepid was using 2.6.24-19. Then I spent a few hours trying to figure out why I was booting to 2.6.24-19. I tried reinstalling Grub to no avail. Eventually Derek here suggested adding "--root-directory=/dev/md1 /dev/sda" to the grub-install command. That got the boot menu to offer 2.6.27-7, but then I got Error 15 - unable to locate boot files. A couple more hours of poking around and I discovered that my RAID1 array had not been updated correctly by the Intrepid dist-upgrade process. There are two disks in the array and one had been updated but the other still had the Hardy boot stuff. You can't do grub-install to a RAID array; the only option is to do it to the MBR on the individual disks. The one that I had grub-install'ed was the one with the Hardy files. so Grub couldn't find the 2.6.27-7 kernel. So I fixed matters by using rescue CDs to mount both disks individually and then deleted all the /boot files from the one that had the Hardy files on it, followed by copying the files from the good disk so they would match. (There's probably a slicker way to do this with mdadm, but I knew I could do it just as effectively with a rescue CD.) Once I got the /boot folders on both disks the same I could boot to 2.6.27-7-generic. And when Intrepid came up all my problems were resolved - the keyboard worked, the mouse worked, and the ethernet worked. It took a couple more minutes to install the new nvidia-177 driver and set the resolution correctly, and all was back to normal. It was an interesting trip, though, and I learned a lot. Per aspera ad astra. From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 20 07:53:13 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:53:13 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] NTP Message-ID: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> This is my output from ntpq -p... But, delay and offset are both 0.000 I am guessing this is just dummy out and it really didn't do anything.. I am not on line all the time.. Do I need to force it.. TIA Linux-yug linux-yug at suna:/proc$ ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter ============================================================================== europium.canoni .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 KERBEROS.MIT.ED .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 mighty.poclabs. .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 *LOCAL(0) LOCAL(0) 13 l 33 64 377 0.000 0.000 0.004 From m0gely at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 07:57:31 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:57:31 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Firefox-2.0.0.18 Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492588EB.7060204@gmail.com> Rich Shepard wrote: > 1.) Since the upgrade to 2.0.0.18 Since FF2 is going to be going to be out of support soon. Should probably put your time into getting FF3 working. -- - m0gely From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Nov 20 08:06:53 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:06:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Firefox-2.0.0.18 Issues In-Reply-To: <492588EB.7060204@gmail.com> References: <492588EB.7060204@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, m0gely wrote: > Since FF2 is going to be going to be out of support soon. Should probably > put your time into getting FF3 working. Pat has that version in Slackware-current. Eventually it will make it to the default version. Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Nov 20 08:37:25 2008 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:37:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] NTP In-Reply-To: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> References: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, linux-yug wrote: > This is my output from ntpq -p... > > But, delay and offset are both 0.000 I am guessing this is just dummy > out and it really didn't do anything.. I am not on line all the time.. > > Do I need to force it.. > > linux-yug at suna:/proc$ ntpq -p > remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset > jitter > ============================================================================== > europium.canoni .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 > 4000.00 > [....] The .INIT. means that it hasn't yet established a connection. You can try restarting ntpd. If that fails, you might want to make sure that firewall rules on your end of things are blocking blocking port 123. -- Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> www.madboa.com From sandy at herring.org Thu Nov 20 08:08:51 2008 From: sandy at herring.org (Sandy Herring) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:08:51 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] NTP In-Reply-To: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> References: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081120160851.GA22329@pickled.herring.org> Circa 07:53:13 on Thu, 20 Nov 2008, linux-yug wrote: > > This is my output from ntpq -p... > > But, delay and offset are both 0.000 I am guessing this is just dummy > out and it really didn't do anything.. I am not on line all the time.. > > Do I need to force it.. > > TIA > > Linux-yug > > > linux-yug at suna:/proc$ ntpq -p > remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset > jitter > ============================================================================== > europium.canoni .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 > KERBEROS.MIT.ED .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 > mighty.poclabs. .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 > *LOCAL(0) LOCAL(0) 13 l 33 64 377 0.000 0.000 0.004 I'm guessing you need to force it since you don't have a persistent connection (if it hasn't sync'd since you posted). Here are two things to check first... (1) make certain ntpd is running on CentOS, `service ntpd status' (2) the logs on CentOS, `grep ntp /var/log/messages' ymmv, depending on your distro. You can force a sync with `ntpdate '. hth, Sandy -- Sandy Herring, RHCE o sandy at herring.org Peck of Pickled Pisces __ o http://herring.org/ *nix || Web authoring questions? |\/ o\ o http://herring.org/finger.html ->http://herring.org/techie.html |/\__/ http://herring.org/pub-key.asc From heinlein at madboa.com Thu Nov 20 08:41:28 2008 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:41:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] NTP In-Reply-To: References: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, Paul Heinlein wrote: > The .INIT. means that it hasn't yet established a connection. You > can try restarting ntpd. If that fails, you might want to make sure > that firewall rules on your end of things are blocking blocking port > 123. Oops. Make that "aren't blocking" ... > > -- Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> www.madboa.com From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 20 09:02:09 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:02:09 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] NTP In-Reply-To: References: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1227200529.4708.110.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 08:37 -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, linux-yug wrote: > > > This is my output from ntpq -p... > > > > But, delay and offset are both 0.000 I am guessing this is just dummy > > out and it really didn't do anything.. I am not on line all the time.. > > > > Do I need to force it.. > > > > linux-yug at suna:/proc$ ntpq -p > > remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset > > jitter > > ============================================================================== > > europium.canoni .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 > > 4000.00 > > [....] > > The .INIT. means that it hasn't yet established a connection. You can > try restarting ntpd. If that fails, you might want to make sure that > firewall rules on your end of things are blocking blocking port 123. Thanks I just stopped ntp and restarted... and will do this daily when I connect to internet.. new output linux-yugl at suna:/proc$ ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter ============================================================================== europium.canoni 193.79.237.14 2 u - 64 1 411.434 -163.16 0.004 KERBEROS.MIT.ED 18.7.21.64 2 u - 64 1 272.062 -137.90 0.004 echelon.no-such .INIT. 16 u - 64 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 LOCAL(0) LOCAL(0) 13 l - 64 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 Thanks for the immediate feed back... Linux-yug > From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 20 09:05:06 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:05:06 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] NTP In-Reply-To: <20081120160851.GA22329@pickled.herring.org> References: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> <20081120160851.GA22329@pickled.herring.org> Message-ID: <1227200706.4708.113.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 08:08 -0800, Sandy Herring wrote: > Circa 07:53:13 on Thu, 20 Nov 2008, linux-yug wrote: > > > > This is my output from ntpq -p... > > > > But, delay and offset are both 0.000 I am guessing this is just dummy > > out and it really didn't do anything.. I am not on line all the time.. > > > > Do I need to force it.. > > > > TIA > > > > Linux-yug > > > > > > linux-yug at suna:/proc$ ntpq -p > > remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset > > jitter > > ============================================================================== > > europium.canoni .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 > > KERBEROS.MIT.ED .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 > > mighty.poclabs. .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 > > *LOCAL(0) LOCAL(0) 13 l 33 64 377 0.000 0.000 0.004 > > I'm guessing you need to force it since you don't have a persistent > connection (if it hasn't sync'd since you posted). > > Here are two things to check first... > > (1) make certain ntpd is running > on CentOS, `service ntpd status' > (2) the logs > on CentOS, `grep ntp /var/log/messages' > > ymmv, depending on your distro. > > You can force a sync with `ntpdate '. > > hth, > Sandy Thanks I am running Ubuntu so the scripts are in /etc/init.d Linux-yug From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Thu Nov 20 09:45:01 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:45:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] NTP In-Reply-To: <1227200706.4708.113.camel@localhost> References: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> <20081120160851.GA22329@pickled.herring.org> <1227200706.4708.113.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, linux-yug wrote: > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:05:06 -0800 > From: linux-yug > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] NTP > > On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 08:08 -0800, Sandy Herring wrote: >> Circa 07:53:13 on Thu, 20 Nov 2008, linux-yug wrote: >>> >>> This is my output from ntpq -p... >>> >>> But, delay and offset are both 0.000 I am guessing this is just dummy >>> out and it really didn't do anything.. I am not on line all the time.. >>> >>> Do I need to force it.. >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> Linux-yug >>> >>> >>> linux-yug at suna:/proc$ ntpq -p >>> remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset >>> jitter >>> ============================================================================== >>> europium.canoni .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 >>> KERBEROS.MIT.ED .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 >>> mighty.poclabs. .INIT. 16 u 32h 1024 0 0.000 0.000 4000.00 >>> *LOCAL(0) LOCAL(0) 13 l 33 64 377 0.000 0.000 0.004 >> >> I'm guessing you need to force it since you don't have a persistent >> connection (if it hasn't sync'd since you posted). >> >> Here are two things to check first... >> >> (1) make certain ntpd is running >> on CentOS, `service ntpd status' >> (2) the logs >> on CentOS, `grep ntp /var/log/messages' >> >> ymmv, depending on your distro. >> >> You can force a sync with `ntpdate '. >> >> hth, >> Sandy > > Thanks > > I am running Ubuntu so the scripts are in /etc/init.d > > Linux-yug - You cannot run ntpdate while ntpd is running. You must stop ntpd, run ntpdate, and start ntpd. - ntpd will not set the clock if it too far askew. It is imperative to use ntpdate to get the clock set correctly before starting ntpd. Gentoo handles this by having two init scripts - one to run ntpdate, and another to start ntpd. You could easily create your own ntpdate initscript, and schedule it to run before ntpd (but after the network is up). - You should make sure your hardware clock is correct by ensuring that the motherboard battery isn't dead, and by using hwclock to set it (once you have used ntpdate to set the software clock correctly, of course). Then when you boot your box you might stand some chance of getting a reasonably accurate time, one that is close enough for ntpd to use. Carlos From creswick at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 09:54:20 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:54:20 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: <20081119193432.5d9fae9f.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1227149535.6285.1.camel@rotwang.fnordora.org> <20081119193432.5d9fae9f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 7:34 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > updated correctly by the Intrepid dist-upgrade process. There are two > disks in the array and one had been updated but the other still had > the Hardy boot stuff. You can't do grub-install to a RAID array; the > only option is to do it to the MBR on the individual disks. The one > that I had grub-install'ed was the one with the Hardy files. so Grub > couldn't find the 2.6.27-7 kernel. So I fixed matters by using rescue > CDs to mount both disks individually and then deleted all the /boot > files from the one that had the Hardy files on it, followed by copying > the files from the good disk so they would match. > > It was an interesting trip, though, and I learned a lot. Per aspera ad > astra. I hope one of the things learned is that software-raid is a royal pain in the ass with relatively little benefit. If you *need* raid, do it in hardware so the OS doesn't get this sort of option to muck things up. Hard disks just don't fail that dramatically, that often. (If you have corruption, that corruption will just be mirrored to the other drive unless you happen to notice *and* prevent the mirroring in time.) Do you know what to do to make use of your raid? (How will you know when you need to do something? What are you *gaining* by having that raid?) --Rogan From wcooley at nakedape.cc Thu Nov 20 09:55:54 2008 From: wcooley at nakedape.cc (Wil Cooley) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:55:54 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] NTP In-Reply-To: References: <1227196393.4708.99.camel@localhost> <20081120160851.GA22329@pickled.herring.org> <1227200706.4708.113.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1227203754.20882.6.camel@wildebeest.oit.pdx.edu> On Thu, 2008-11-20 at 10:45 -0700, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > - You cannot run ntpdate while ntpd is running. You must stop ntpd, > run ntpdate, and start ntpd. Not entirely true; you just have to use the '-u' option w/ntpdate. > - ntpd will not set the clock if it too far askew. It is imperative > to use ntpdate to get the clock set correctly before starting ntpd. > Gentoo handles this by having two init scripts - one to run ntpdate, > and another to start ntpd. You could easily create your own ntpdate > initscript, and schedule it to run before ntpd (but after the > network is up). Also not entirely true. The -g option to ntpd will allow it to set the clock without skew limitations, but only once. For some reason, the ntp.org ntpd developers want to retire the ntpdate program, so the current recommendation is to run ntpd in one-shot mode: 'ntpd -gq'. > - You should make sure your hardware clock is correct by ensuring that > the motherboard battery isn't dead, and by using hwclock to set it > (once you have used ntpdate to set the software clock correctly, of > course). Then when you boot your box you might stand some chance of > getting a reasonably accurate time, one that is close enough for > ntpd to use. Wil -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.pdxlinux.org/pipermail/plug/attachments/20081120/bd25a2b1/attachment.bin From gently at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 10:15:42 2008 From: gently at gmail.com (chris (fool) mccraw) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:15:42 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1227149535.6285.1.camel@rotwang.fnordora.org> <20081119193432.5d9fae9f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 09:54, Rogan Creswick wrote: > I hope one of the things learned is that software-raid is a royal pain > in the ass with relatively little benefit. If you *need* raid, do it > in hardware so the OS doesn't get this sort of option to muck things > up. wow, i totally disagree. i use software raid to great success in many situations, and have had no trouble evicting dead disks and inserting new disks. i guess i don't "need" raid anywhere i use software raid--i could just be without computer for awhile. but in my two sub-$400 home computers, adding a raid card (not even possible, since neither have spare slots, both being small-form-factor) would add significant expense. in my work computer, well, they aren't buying and neither am i paying for hardware to use at the office. furthermore, i've had some nightmares with hardware raid--take for example the PERC cards in dell servers. the only reasonable way to monitor them remotely when using non-redhat/suse pay distros is to hackishly install tools not intended for debian, etc, and write a script to poll that software (which is poorly documented at best and was quite a pain to track down--go ahead, see if you can find the latest version of MegaCLI from an official download site). and the best part? i came onboard at my current company post-install on one of these servers where the installer and installed kernel (ubuntu 7.something i think--since been upgraded and fixed) saw the hardware raid as 3 separate disks--sda, sdb, sdc. sdc happened to be the raid-1 mirror of sda and sdb. whoever did the install didn't notice, and assumed the install and the OS were using the mirror, when actually, it was constantly *corrupting* the mirror by writing to the individual device rather than the virtual mirror. imagine the hilarity when i installed a new kernel, rebooted, and got the old kernel. lather, rinse, repeat, and eventually i managed to corrupt both disks by finally writing to /dev/sdc with grub. yay! i'll grant you there was user error combined with software error there (newer kernels do not expose the two individual disks), but it cost me a sleepless night spent at the data center and 8 months worth of webserver statistics (which are now being backed up..) > Hard disks just don't fail that dramatically, that often. (If you > have corruption, that corruption will just be mirrored to the other > drive unless you happen to notice *and* prevent the mirroring in > time.) hmm, i've had 2 disks fail in the 8 or so s/w raids i've setup. these are consumer-level disks, not server level, but i'm going with my personal observed statistics. > Do you know what to do to make use of your raid? (How will you know > when you need to do something? What are you *gaining* by having that > raid?) i gain some peace of mind and instant automatic recovery without resorting to backup tapes. From pdxlinux at johnmedway.com Thu Nov 20 10:45:35 2008 From: pdxlinux at johnmedway.com (John Medway) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:45:35 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Pause booting? In-Reply-To: References: <20081114195116.5f0ef06b.johnxj@comcast.net> <491F3A2A.3010109@gmail.com> <20081115133333.651370de.johnxj@comcast.net> <86ljvkh6dt.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> <1227149535.6285.1.camel@rotwang.fnordora.org> <20081119193432.5d9fae9f.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081120103803.04d7fc90@mail.johnmedway.com> Hardware RAID is usually hard to manage and monitor, even if there are would-be drivers for Redhat, CentOS, et al. I nearly always choose software RAID for deployments. I'd much rather have Nagios warn me of a disk going bad, so we can fix it before I come in to find out that the answer to "why's the server not talking any more?" is because that one too many of those informative little LEDs I can't see from 4 miles away has gone red. Now back to figuring out how to disable the XO@#! hardware RAID in an IBM x8350, so I can JBOD the disks into a software RAID... At 10:15 AM 11/20/2008, chris (fool) mccraw wrote: >On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 09:54, Rogan Creswick wrote: > > > I hope one of the things learned is that software-raid is a royal pain > > in the ass with relatively little benefit. If you *need* raid, do it > > in hardware so the OS doesn't get this sort of option to muck things > > up. > >wow, i totally disagree. i use software raid to great success in many >situations, and have had no trouble evicting dead disks and inserting >new disks. i guess i don't "need" raid anywhere i use software >raid--i could just be without computer for awhile. but in my two >sub-$400 home computers, adding a raid card (not even possible, since >neither have spare slots, both being small-form-factor) would add >significant expense. in my work computer, well, they aren't buying >and neither am i paying for hardware to use at the office. > >furthermore, i've had some nightmares with hardware raid--take for >example the PERC cards in dell servers. the only reasonable way to >monitor them remotely when using non-redhat/suse pay distros is to >hackishly install tools not intended for debian, etc, and write a >script to poll that software (which is poorly documented at best and >was quite a pain to track down--go ahead, see if you can find the >latest version of MegaCLI from an official download site). and the >best part? i came onboard at my current company post-install on one >of these servers where the installer and installed kernel (ubuntu >7.something i think--since been upgraded and fixed) saw the hardware >raid as 3 separate disks--sda, sdb, sdc. sdc happened to be the >raid-1 mirror of sda and sdb. whoever did the install didn't notice, >and assumed the install and the OS were using the mirror, when >actually, it was constantly *corrupting* the mirror by writing to the >individual device rather than the virtual mirror. imagine the >hilarity when i installed a new kernel, rebooted, and got the old >kernel. lather, rinse, repeat, and eventually i managed to corrupt >both disks by finally writing to /dev/sdc with grub. yay! i'll grant >you there was user error combined with software error there (newer >kernels do not expose the two individual disks), but it cost me a >sleepless night spent at the data center and 8 months worth of >webserver statistics (which are now being backed up..) > > > > Hard disks just don't fail that dramatically, that often. (If you > > have corruption, that corruption will just be mirrored to the other > > drive unless you happen to notice *and* prevent the mirroring in > > time.) > >hmm, i've had 2 disks fail in the 8 or so s/w raids i've setup. these >are consumer-level disks, not server level, but i'm going with my >personal observed statistics. > > > > Do you know what to do to make use of your raid? (How will you know > > when you need to do something? What are you *gaining* by having that > > raid?) > >i gain some peace of mind and instant automatic recovery without >resorting to backup tapes. >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From pdxlinux at johnmedway.com Thu Nov 20 16:22:45 2008 From: pdxlinux at johnmedway.com (John Medway) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:22:45 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Routing Question Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081120132809.044e0eb0@landongxi> We have an OpenVPN server at a colo, with each site connecting via DSL. One of our site routers (call it "X") is multihomed, and connects to two different DSL modems. One DSL is supposedly dedicated to our OpenVPN connection (and any other ancillary traffic to the same IP range as the OpenVPN server external address), and one to all other traffic. But there's some routing weirdness in how I've (apparently incorrectly) implemented it. Routing from X to the colo, whether VPN or no, works. Routing from X to other outside addresses works. Routing from a machine behind X to the colo via the VPN works. Routing from a machine behind X to the colo, NOT on VPN fails. (i.e., to the other public IP addresses there) Routing from a machine behind X to anything elsewhere (i.e., on the other path) works Obfuscated Kernel IP routing table Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface 10.202.2.1 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 UH 0 0 0 tun30 aa.bbb.49.48 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.248 U 0 0 0 eth2 cc.ddd.213.16 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.248 U 0 0 0 eth1 ee.ff.82.128 aa.bbb.49.54 255.255.255.240 UG 0 0 0 eth2 192.168.5.0 10.202.2.1 255.255.255.0 UG 0 0 0 tun30 192.168.2.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 eth0 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 0 0 0 eth2 0.0.0.0 cc.ddd.213.22 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth1 X's eth1 is on cc.ddd X' eth2 is on aa.bbb ee.fff is the colo address range Ideas? From russell at personaltelco.net Thu Nov 20 17:16:22 2008 From: russell at personaltelco.net (Russell Senior) Date: 20 Nov 2008 17:16:22 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Routing Question In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20081120132809.044e0eb0@landongxi> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20081120132809.044e0eb0@landongxi> Message-ID: <868wrdzxnd.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "John" == John Medway writes: John> We have an OpenVPN server at a colo, with each site connecting John> via DSL. One of our site routers (call it "X") is multihomed, John> and connects to two different DSL modems. One DSL is supposedly John> dedicated to our OpenVPN connection (and any other ancillary John> traffic to the same IP range as the OpenVPN server external John> address), and one to all other traffic. But there's some routing John> weirdness in how I've (apparently incorrectly) implemented it. John> Routing from X to the colo, whether VPN or no, works. John> Routing from X to other outside addresses works. Routing from a John> machine behind X to the colo via the VPN works. Routing from a John> machine behind X to the colo, NOT on VPN fails. (i.e., to the John> other public IP addresses there) Routing from a machine behind X John> to anything elsewhere (i.e., on the other path) works [...] John> Ideas? Three letters: N. A. T. I didn't see enough information to know for sure, but NAT combined with multihoming can make things like TCP connections get very confused. -- Russell Senior, Secretary russell at personaltelco.net From m0gely at gmail.com Thu Nov 20 20:05:04 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 20:05:04 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Firefox-2.0.0.18 Issues In-Reply-To: References: <492588EB.7060204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49263370.2030002@gmail.com> Rich Shepard wrote: > On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, m0gely wrote: > >> Since FF2 is going to be going to be out of support soon. Should probably >> put your time into getting FF3 working. > > Pat has that version in Slackware-current. Eventually it will make it to > the default version. I hope "eventually" means next month. http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all-older.html -- - m0gely From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Fri Nov 21 06:31:07 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:31:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Firefox-2.0.0.18 Issues In-Reply-To: <49263370.2030002@gmail.com> References: <492588EB.7060204@gmail.com> <49263370.2030002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, m0gely wrote: > I hope "eventually" means next month. We'll see. I guess that this weekend I really should devote time to upgrading my main server/workstation. I've put it off because Xfce has made major changes that require hand tuning to restore to the form I want. Sigh. Oh, well. Time to bite the bullet and do it. Thanks, Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From keithl at kl-ic.com Fri Nov 21 10:21:09 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:21:09 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] WRT54GL on sale at Fry's Message-ID: <20081121182109.GA26028@gate.kl-ic.com> No doubt reacting to Russell's splendid talk about OpenWRT at the Advanced Topics meeting, Fry's has a sale on the Linksys WRT54GL B/G Access point for $49.99 ( SKU 4703979 ), advertised in the Friday Oregonian as a "Linux Router". This is the version of the Linksys that is easily re-flashed with OpenWRT and other flash-optimized Linux distros. I suggest replacing the wall wart power supply that comes with 12V/1A Linksys units with a more efficient and trustworthy switching power supply. If your wall power is not rock solid (a furnace or refrigerator motor startup can sag the voltage) then you may brick one of these units while flashing it. One possible replacement is the $9.95 Netgate PS-15V-1.25A-18W : http://www.netgate.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_55&products_id=666 This unit produces 15V - the Linksys will do fine with up to 20V or so. It will ride out temporary wall power upsets better than "dumb" wall warts. It would be nice if a retailer carried these locally. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From galens at seitzassoc.com Fri Nov 21 11:33:47 2008 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:33:47 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] WRT54GL on sale at Fry's In-Reply-To: <20081121182109.GA26028@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081121182109.GA26028@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <49270D1B.7040102@seitzassoc.com> Keith Lofstrom wrote: > No doubt reacting to Russell's splendid talk about OpenWRT at the > Advanced Topics meeting, Fry's has a sale on the Linksys WRT54GL > B/G Access point for $49.99 ( SKU 4703979 ), advertised in the > Friday Oregonian as a "Linux Router". > > This is the version of the Linksys that is easily re-flashed with > OpenWRT and other flash-optimized Linux distros. > > I suggest replacing the wall wart power supply that comes with > 12V/1A Linksys units with a more efficient and trustworthy > switching power supply. If your wall power is not rock solid > (a furnace or refrigerator motor startup can sag the voltage) > then you may brick one of these units while flashing it. > Keith, are you sure this is necessary? The last WRT54GL I bought had a wall wart that was significantly different in appearance compared to earlier versions. I suspect the new adapter is a switching power supply, probably due to new CA regulation requiring higher efficiency. Of course that doesn't mean the new adapter will be any better at handling line dropouts. galen From keithl at kl-ic.com Fri Nov 21 12:51:21 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:51:21 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] WRT54GL on sale at Fry's In-Reply-To: <49270D1B.7040102@seitzassoc.com> References: <20081121182109.GA26028@gate.kl-ic.com> <49270D1B.7040102@seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <20081121205121.GA26497@gate.kl-ic.com> > Keith Lofstrom wrote: > >I suggest replacing the wall wart power supply that comes with > >12V/1A Linksys units with a more efficient and trustworthy > >switching power supply. If your wall power is not rock solid > >(a furnace or refrigerator motor startup can sag the voltage) > >then you may brick one of these units while flashing it. > > > On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 11:33:47AM -0800, Galen Seitz wrote: > Keith, are you sure this is necessary? The last WRT54GL I bought had a > wall wart that was significantly different in appearance compared to > earlier versions. I suspect the new adapter is a switching power > supply, probably due to new CA regulation requiring higher efficiency. > Of course that doesn't mean the new adapter will be any better at > handling line dropouts. Wonderful news! If they are switchers, I imagine they have enough capacitor storage to ride out a cycle or two of line sag, otherwise the efficiency would suffer. The old transformer bricks were marginal anyway. In any case, it should be easy enough to tell by weighing the wall wart in your hand. Transformer iron is HEAVY. I wonder how much Linksys saves on shipping costs, if nothing else? With the price of metal rising, and slack demand lowering the price of some electronics, I wonder if the total cost of a switcher has dropped below the cost of a dumb transformer unit yet? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From pdxlinux at johnmedway.com Fri Nov 21 13:07:53 2008 From: pdxlinux at johnmedway.com (John Medway) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:07:53 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Routing Question In-Reply-To: <868wrdzxnd.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> References: <6.2.1.2.2.20081120132809.044e0eb0@landongxi> <868wrdzxnd.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20081121105403.0509eeb0@mail.johnmedway.com> Sure enough, I forgot to add a masqerade statement to the iptables rules when I added eth2, after the fact. Duh... At 05:16 PM 11/20/2008, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "John" == John Medway writes: > >John> We have an OpenVPN server at a colo, with each site connecting >John> via DSL. One of our site routers (call it "X") is multihomed, >John> and connects to two different DSL modems. One DSL is supposedly >John> dedicated to our OpenVPN connection (and any other ancillary >John> traffic to the same IP range as the OpenVPN server external >John> address), and one to all other traffic. But there's some routing >John> weirdness in how I've (apparently incorrectly) implemented it. > >John> Routing from X to the colo, whether VPN or no, works. >John> Routing from X to other outside addresses works. Routing from a >John> machine behind X to the colo via the VPN works. Routing from a >John> machine behind X to the colo, NOT on VPN fails. (i.e., to the >John> other public IP addresses there) Routing from a machine behind X >John> to anything elsewhere (i.e., on the other path) works > >[...] > >John> Ideas? > >Three letters: N. A. T. > >I didn't see enough information to know for sure, but NAT combined >with multihoming can make things like TCP connections get very >confused. > > >-- >Russell Senior, Secretary >russell at personaltelco.net >_______________________________________________ >PLUG mailing list >PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From keithl at kl-ic.com Sat Nov 22 09:44:38 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:44:38 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Airlink USB Wireless Adapter AWLL3055 works Message-ID: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> On Friday Nov 21 2008, Fry's least expensive 802.11a/b/g adapter was the Airlink AWLL3055, "802.11G USB Adapter with +10dBi Antenna", costing $19.90 (they may sometimes have cheaper devices, but they were out of stock). I bought one, to see what kind of grief we can expect at the next clinic. Not much from this one, it turns out. The 3055 is not small, because it is built with a 10dB patch antenna and has a 6 foot USB cable on it. The whole package is 2x4x3 inches or so . The antenna increases the range considerably. I get "4 bars" to my access point 30 feet and two walls away. It claims to be 40mW (16dBm) on the box. No FCC ID (!!). The higher gain antenna means that you are not spraying RF in all directions. That increases security by reducing eavesdropping, reduces multipath interference, and is also more neighborly, though you need to know where the access point is. The USB2 connection means less interface incompatability - this should work with most 5 year or younger machines, getting around the paucity of CardExpress incompatabilities, for example. And because it unplugs quickly from a laptop, it provides "air gap" security - yank it out and you are isolated. I don't trust builtin Wifi, mediated by potentially vulnerable software, to always tell the truth about being disconnected. The Airlink contains a ZyDas zd1211b chip, USBID 0ace:1215, which is moderately well supported by the Linux ZD1211 driver. It doesn't report link quality, but the adapter is otherwise plug-and-play in Hardy Heron, and works with my older RHEL 5 distro. At the clinic, we keep encountering wireless cards with unsupported chipsets, often purchased cheap at Frys. For the next few months, on of the cheapest adapters you can buy may be one of the better ones. Please don't buy unsupported wireless gear. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Sat Nov 22 09:53:30 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:53:30 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Airlink USB Wireless Adapter AWLL3055 works In-Reply-To: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:44:38 -0800 > From: Keith Lofstrom > Reply-To: keithl at keithl.com, > "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: PLUG > Subject: [PLUG] Airlink USB Wireless Adapter AWLL3055 works > > > On Friday Nov 21 2008, Fry's least expensive 802.11a/b/g adapter > was the Airlink AWLL3055, "802.11G USB Adapter with +10dBi Antenna", > costing $19.90 (they may sometimes have cheaper devices, but they > were out of stock). I bought one, to see what kind of grief we > can expect at the next clinic. Not much from this one, it turns out. > > The 3055 is not small, because it is built with a 10dB patch > antenna and has a 6 foot USB cable on it. The whole package is > 2x4x3 inches or so . The antenna increases the range considerably. > I get "4 bars" to my access point 30 feet and two walls away. > It claims to be 40mW (16dBm) on the box. No FCC ID (!!). > > The higher gain antenna means that you are not spraying RF in all > directions. That increases security by reducing eavesdropping, > reduces multipath interference, and is also more neighborly, > though you need to know where the access point is. > > The USB2 connection means less interface incompatability - this > should work with most 5 year or younger machines, getting around > the paucity of CardExpress incompatabilities, for example. And > because it unplugs quickly from a laptop, it provides "air gap" > security - yank it out and you are isolated. I don't trust > builtin Wifi, mediated by potentially vulnerable software, to > always tell the truth about being disconnected. > > The Airlink contains a ZyDas zd1211b chip, USBID 0ace:1215, which > is moderately well supported by the Linux ZD1211 driver. It doesn't > report link quality, but the adapter is otherwise plug-and-play in > Hardy Heron, and works with my older RHEL 5 distro. > > At the clinic, we keep encountering wireless cards with unsupported > chipsets, often purchased cheap at Frys. For the next few months, > on of the cheapest adapters you can buy may be one of the better ones. > Please don't buy unsupported wireless gear. > > Keith Does it have kernel WPA support (I'm guessing this means mac80211)? I've been struggling with that one. I should probably start a new helpme! thread on this subject. wpa_supplicant has been a nightmare, at least with my atheros 52xx built-in wireless. It keeps dropping the connection, and signal strength is in the toilet. I have been poking around the 2.6.25.19 kernel source looking for mac80211 support in various wifi drivers. Correct me if I'm wrong - the orinoco_cs card has no such support, right? Carlos From brian.hayes at oit.edu Sat Nov 22 13:47:43 2008 From: brian.hayes at oit.edu (brianlhayes) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:47:43 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] CIS program Book recommends Message-ID: <49287DFF.80804@oit.edu> We currently use O'Reilly TCP/IP Network Administration for a net admin linux class, this is a one term class. Our conclusion about the book for the class is this: "The current text has many problems and presents students with unnecessary problems. Unfortunately, it is the best I can find. Try to find a better approach other than writing a new text." Our last assignment is to find and recommend a book (or site) for the typical student taking a Linux NetAdmin course. Thoughts from the user group would be appreciated. I am off searching myself. ps- full titles, isbn, links, as I have to check them out. From amerine at gmail.com Sat Nov 22 19:01:53 2008 From: amerine at gmail.com (Mark Turner) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:01:53 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] CIS program Book recommends In-Reply-To: <49287DFF.80804@oit.edu> References: <49287DFF.80804@oit.edu> Message-ID: <11EDADBF-5580-40D5-810F-D88BC8A97658@gmail.com> On Nov 22, 2008, at 1:47 PM, brianlhayes wrote: > We currently use O'Reilly TCP/IP Network Administration for a net > admin > linux class, this is a one term class. > Our conclusion about the book for the class is this: > "The current text has many problems and presents students with > unnecessary problems. Unfortunately, it is the best I can find. Try to > find a better approach other than writing a new text." > > Our last assignment is to find and recommend a book (or site) for the > typical student taking a Linux NetAdmin course. > Thoughts from the user group would be appreciated. > I am off searching myself. > ps- full titles, isbn, links, as I have to check them out. Check out "Linux administration". From eitan.tsur at gmail.com Sat Nov 22 20:51:37 2008 From: eitan.tsur at gmail.com (eitan.tsur at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 04:51:37 +0000 Subject: [PLUG] MD RAID and DBUS issue... Message-ID: <0016364c5a638f5df6045c540867@google.com> I just recently installed a 3-disk RAID5 array in a server of mine, running FC9. Upon reboot, occasionally one of the drives drops out, and is allocated as a spare. I suspect there is some sort of issue where DBUS re-arranges the drive-to-device maps between boots, but I am not sure... Just kind of annoying to have to stop and re-add a drive every boot, and wait the couple hours for the array to rebuild the 3rd disk. Any thoughts? Anyone else encountered such an issue before? What should I be looking for? I'm new to the world of RAID, so any information you can give may be helpful. Regards, -Eitan- From keithl at kl-ic.com Sat Nov 22 23:47:57 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:47:57 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Airlink USB Wireless Adapter AWLL3055 works In-Reply-To: References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:53:30AM -0700, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > > Does it have kernel WPA support (I'm guessing this means mac80211)? > I've been struggling with that one. I should probably start a new > helpme! thread on this subject. wpa_supplicant has been a nightmare, > at least with my atheros 52xx built-in wireless. It keeps dropping > the connection, and signal strength is in the toilet. > > I have been poking around the 2.6.25.19 kernel source looking for > mac80211 support in various wifi drivers. Correct me if I'm wrong - > the orinoco_cs card has no such support, right? That probably depends on the driver - I recall seeing the verbiage that implies that it is there. Perhaps you can come to the clinic and experiment with the Zydas cards, and see if the WPA feature works correctly. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Sat Nov 22 23:58:43 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:58:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Airlink USB Wireless Adapter AWLL3055 works In-Reply-To: <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:47:57 -0800 > From: Keith Lofstrom > Reply-To: keithl at keithl.com > To: Carlos Konstanski > Cc: keithl at keithl.com, > "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Airlink USB Wireless Adapter AWLL3055 works > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 10:53:30AM -0700, Carlos Konstanski wrote: >> >> Does it have kernel WPA support (I'm guessing this means mac80211)? >> I've been struggling with that one. I should probably start a new >> helpme! thread on this subject. wpa_supplicant has been a nightmare, >> at least with my atheros 52xx built-in wireless. It keeps dropping >> the connection, and signal strength is in the toilet. >> >> I have been poking around the 2.6.25.19 kernel source looking for >> mac80211 support in various wifi drivers. Correct me if I'm wrong - >> the orinoco_cs card has no such support, right? > > That probably depends on the driver - I recall seeing the verbiage > that implies that it is there. Perhaps you can come to the clinic > and experiment with the Zydas cards, and see if the WPA feature > works correctly. > > Keith Ha ha, I wish, I'd need a plane ticket from Hailey, Idaho. But I may actually be in Portland around Xmas. Will there be a meeting then? Carlos From eterry at openboxbuilder.com Sat Nov 22 23:28:20 2008 From: eterry at openboxbuilder.com (Edward Terry) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:28:20 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] e-commerce web hosting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49290614.9070806@openboxbuilder.com> > A friend of mine is in need of e-commerce support for a web site he is > developing for one of his businesses. He needs to be able to handle > credit card purchases and wants a shopping cart. > > Any recommendations on who to send him to? I just finished looking for an open-source shopping cart. The most interesting ones I found were Magento (http://www.magentocommerce.com), Ubercart (http://www.ubercart.org), and Satchmo (http://www.satchmoproject.com). Magento is in PHP and XML and is OSL (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/osl-3.0.php). Ubercart (which is a Drupal module) is in PHP and is GPL. Satchmo (which is a Django application) is in Python and is Modified BSD (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php). Magento seems to be the most powerful and can even give some of the major commercial carts a run for their money, but customization is likely to be expensive. Ubercart and Satchmo are designed to be highly flexible and seem well-suited to small sites. All three are somewhat difficult to install and would probably require a developer. The mid-range is currently dominated by osCommerce (http://www.oscommerce.org) and various offshoots such as Zen Cart (http://www.zencart.com) and osCMax (http://www.oscmax.com); they're easy to install and maintain (no developer needed), but difficult to customize. As Magento becomes more user-friendly and Ubercart and Satchmo become more powerful, they'll probably squeeze out the middle. These are just my impressions from reading websites and reviews; I didn't look at the code. Edward From keithl at kl-ic.com Sun Nov 23 17:56:30 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:56:30 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20081124015630.GB30864@gate.kl-ic.com> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:58:43AM -0700, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > Ha ha, I wish, I'd need a plane ticket from Hailey, Idaho. But I may > actually be in Portland around Xmas. Will there be a meeting then? We are still discussing that - we have the space for Sunday December 21, and I'm in favor of having a clinic that day. The FreeGeek Store will be open, which may mean we've got to "watch our stuff" more closely. But if it this a chance to meet some of our more distant friends, then I'm even more eager to do the clinic. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From iconoklastic at yahoo.com Sun Nov 23 23:44:47 2008 From: iconoklastic at yahoo.com (Robert Kopp) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:44:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Creative SB X-Fi driver Message-ID: <801704.77357.qm@web50606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Creative has released the source code for the driver for this family of premium sound cards. I compiled it (OpenSuSE 11.0 64-bit), and it works for both recording and playback, though not with all applications. Not with Skype input, for example. Robert "Tim" Kopp http://analytic.tripod.com/ From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Mon Nov 24 03:30:12 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (Michael Robinson) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:30:12 +0000 Subject: [PLUG] Dungeons of Daggorath Message-ID: <492A9044.6030305@robinson-west.com> Remember this coco 2 game? Well, I found a Linux port and tried it out. It uses SDL. It seems a bit harder than I remember it being on the coco, I'm wondering if the port has some changes from the original. Finally survived the first level only to be wiped out by a knight on the second. Typing seems a bit slow, that's my only real complaint. It would be nice if I could get the original coco version in a dsk image that I can load into drivewire to play on my actual color computer. The whole game is only 8k. There is a windows port as well, apparently that came first. The other classic I miss is Downland, a coco 2 game that had problems running on the coco 3. I don't know if anyone has ported it to the PC let alone Linux. Out of curiosity, what would a 6809 redesigned to run at say 2.4 Ghz with additional 16 bit sound hardware built in be like to work with? I've heard a lot of talk that PC machine language is just plain gross where the 6809 is much simpler than say a quad core processor used in a modern PC. There is talk from some coco enthusiasts of a COCO 4, but I doubt that will ever happen. At least it won't happen until the hardware gets old enough. The coco3 had disk basic, what would a modern coco look like? I suppose memory protection would have to be considered and the ability to access data using more than 8 bits, although a compatability mode would make sense. I think the Coco 3 was the first coco in the coco line to have compatability issues. For one thing, every pmode 4 game you play on an RGB monitor on a COCO 3 is in black and white. I guess what would be most interesting is taking the best of all the computers that were popular in 1980 and making a modern variant. Imagine a COCO 4 having the sprite technology of the Commodore 64. These days it seems like your choices are Mac or PC, not as diverse as say 1980 when you could go with a Commodore, a TRS-80, an Apple IIe, an Atari, etcetera. In 1980 Microsoft wasn't dominant yet. Tandy corporation licensed software from Microsoft for the color computer, but Microsoft wasn't the sole provider of that software. Isn't 1980 about the time that Windows 3.1 was getting popular? From wamorita at hevanet.com Mon Nov 24 07:15:58 2008 From: wamorita at hevanet.com (William A Morita) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:15:58 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Dungeons of Daggorath In-Reply-To: <492A9044.6030305@robinson-west.com> References: <492A9044.6030305@robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <89AC1BE223A446F58E55648E16EC5832@RAMA> Michael I did some assembly level development on the 6809. Rumor is that we ended up with 8086's in the PC because Intel lied to IBM about their then capacity to supply chips. The assembly language was very nicely formed as are most Motorola instruction sets. What is SDL?? - Bill Morita wamorita at hevanet.com Home: (503) 697-6994 Cell: (503) 260-3876 -----Original Message----- From: plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org [mailto:plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:30 AM To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG] Dungeons of Daggorath Remember this coco 2 game? Well, I found a Linux port and tried it out. It uses SDL. It seems a bit harder than I remember it being on the coco, I'm wondering if the port has some changes from the original. Finally survived the first level only to be wiped out by a knight on the second. Typing seems a bit slow, that's my only real complaint. It would be nice if I could get the original coco version in a dsk image that I can load into drivewire to play on my actual color computer. The whole game is only 8k. There is a windows port as well, apparently that came first. The other classic I miss is Downland, a coco 2 game that had problems running on the coco 3. I don't know if anyone has ported it to the PC let alone Linux. Out of curiosity, what would a 6809 redesigned to run at say 2.4 Ghz with additional 16 bit sound hardware built in be like to work with? I've heard a lot of talk that PC machine language is just plain gross where the 6809 is much simpler than say a quad core processor used in a modern PC. There is talk from some coco enthusiasts of a COCO 4, but I doubt that will ever happen. At least it won't happen until the hardware gets old enough. The coco3 had disk basic, what would a modern coco look like? I suppose memory protection would have to be considered and the ability to access data using more than 8 bits, although a compatability mode would make sense. I think the Coco 3 was the first coco in the coco line to have compatability issues. For one thing, every pmode 4 game you play on an RGB monitor on a COCO 3 is in black and white. I guess what would be most interesting is taking the best of all the computers that were popular in 1980 and making a modern variant. Imagine a COCO 4 having the sprite technology of the Commodore 64. These days it seems like your choices are Mac or PC, not as diverse as say 1980 when you could go with a Commodore, a TRS-80, an Apple IIe, an Atari, etcetera. In 1980 Microsoft wasn't dominant yet. Tandy corporation licensed software from Microsoft for the color computer, but Microsoft wasn't the sole provider of that software. Isn't 1980 about the time that Windows 3.1 was getting popular? _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From corvus.elrod at zakelro.com Mon Nov 24 07:25:44 2008 From: corvus.elrod at zakelro.com (Corvus Elrod) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:25:44 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Dungeons of Daggorath In-Reply-To: <89AC1BE223A446F58E55648E16EC5832@RAMA> References: <492A9044.6030305@robinson-west.com> <89AC1BE223A446F58E55648E16EC5832@RAMA> Message-ID: You're off by a decade there, Michael! Windows 3.0 was released in 1990. 3.1 was released two years later. William, SDL stands for Simple DirectMedia Layer. It's a cross-platform multimedia library, popular among open source programmers. http://www.libsdl.org/ -- Corvus Elrod, Zakelro Story Studio http://www.zakelro.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/corvus On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:15 AM, William A Morita wrote: > Michael > > I did some assembly level development on the 6809. > Rumor is that we ended up with 8086's in the PC because Intel lied to IBM > about their then capacity to supply chips. > The assembly language was very nicely formed as are most Motorola > instruction sets. > What is SDL?? > > - Bill Morita > > wamorita at hevanet.com > Home: (503) 697-6994 > Cell: (503) 260-3876 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:30 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: [PLUG] Dungeons of Daggorath > > Remember this coco 2 game? Well, I found a Linux port and tried it out. It > uses SDL. It seems a bit harder than I remember it being on the coco, I'm > wondering if the port has some changes from the original. > > Finally survived the first level only to be wiped out by a knight on the > second. Typing seems a bit slow, that's my only real complaint. > > It would be nice if I could get the original coco version in a dsk image > that I can load into drivewire to play on my actual color computer. The > whole game is only 8k. > > There is a windows port as well, apparently that came first. > > The other classic I miss is Downland, a coco 2 game that had problems > running on the coco 3. I don't know if anyone has ported it to the PC let > alone Linux. > > Out of curiosity, what would a 6809 redesigned to run at say 2.4 Ghz with > additional 16 bit sound hardware built in be like to work with? > I've heard a lot of talk that PC machine language is just plain gross where > the 6809 is much simpler than say a quad core processor used in a modern PC. > There is talk from some coco enthusiasts of a COCO 4, but I doubt that will > ever happen. At least it won't happen until the hardware gets old enough. > The coco3 had disk basic, what would a modern coco look like? I suppose > memory protection would have to be considered and the ability to access data > using more than 8 bits, although a compatability mode would make sense. I > think the Coco 3 was the first coco in the coco line to have compatability > issues. For one thing, every pmode 4 game you play on an RGB monitor on a > COCO 3 is in black and white. I guess what would be most interesting is > taking the best of all the computers that were popular in 1980 and making a > modern variant. Imagine a COCO 4 having the sprite technology of the > Commodore 64. > > > These days it seems like your choices are Mac or PC, not as diverse as say > 1980 when you could go with a Commodore, a TRS-80, an Apple IIe, an Atari, > etcetera. In 1980 Microsoft wasn't dominant yet. > Tandy corporation licensed software from Microsoft for the color computer, > but Microsoft wasn't the sole provider of that software. Isn't 1980 about > the time that Windows > 3.1 was getting popular? > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Mon Nov 24 08:43:43 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:43:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc In-Reply-To: <20081124015630.GB30864@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124015630.GB30864@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:56:30 -0800 > From: Keith Lofstrom > Reply-To: keithl at keithl.com, > "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc > > > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:58:43AM -0700, Carlos Konstanski wrote: >> Ha ha, I wish, I'd need a plane ticket from Hailey, Idaho. But I may >> actually be in Portland around Xmas. Will there be a meeting then? > > We are still discussing that - we have the space for Sunday > December 21, and I'm in favor of having a clinic that day. The > FreeGeek Store will be open, which may mean we've got to "watch our > stuff" more closely. But if it this a chance to meet some of our > more distant friends, then I'm even more eager to do the clinic. > > Keith Being in Portland on the 21st is a possibility. It gives me a reason to take the entire week of the 21st off from work. I could call it "professional development". Perhaps if there are any skiers among you, I might enjoy your company on Mount Hood earlier in the day. Tele-ho! And of course there's my WPA situation to consider. Carlos From plug at the-wes.com Mon Nov 24 08:51:51 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 08:51:51 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Dungeons of Daggorath In-Reply-To: <89AC1BE223A446F58E55648E16EC5832@RAMA> References: <492A9044.6030305@robinson-west.com> <89AC1BE223A446F58E55648E16EC5832@RAMA> Message-ID: That's interesting. The version of the rumor that I heard was a little different. What I heard was that IBM went to Motorola and asked for a good deal on their processors. Motorola responded, "Why should we give you a deal?" Then they went to Intel, which responded, "Sure, how many do you want?" This leaves plenty of room for people to do things like lie about how many they can supply. I'm sure the actual correspondence would be very interesting to see today. And the rest is history. -wes On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:15 AM, William A Morita wrote: > Michael > > I did some assembly level development on the 6809. > Rumor is that we ended up with 8086's in the PC because Intel lied to IBM > about their then capacity to supply chips. > The assembly language was very nicely formed as are most Motorola > instruction sets. > What is SDL?? > > - Bill Morita > > wamorita at hevanet.com > Home: (503) 697-6994 > Cell: (503) 260-3876 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org > [mailto:plug-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org] On Behalf Of Michael Robinson > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:30 AM > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: [PLUG] Dungeons of Daggorath > > Remember this coco 2 game? Well, I found a Linux port and tried it out. > It > uses SDL. It seems a bit harder than I remember it being on the coco, I'm > wondering if the port has some changes from the original. > > Finally survived the first level only to be wiped out by a knight on the > second. Typing seems a bit slow, that's my only real complaint. > > It would be nice if I could get the original coco version in a dsk image > that I can load into drivewire to play on my actual color computer. The > whole game is only 8k. > > There is a windows port as well, apparently that came first. > > The other classic I miss is Downland, a coco 2 game that had problems > running on the coco 3. I don't know if anyone has ported it to the PC let > alone Linux. > > Out of curiosity, what would a 6809 redesigned to run at say 2.4 Ghz with > additional 16 bit sound hardware built in be like to work with? > I've heard a lot of talk that PC machine language is just plain gross where > the 6809 is much simpler than say a quad core processor used in a modern > PC. > There is talk from some coco enthusiasts of a COCO 4, but I doubt that will > ever happen. At least it won't happen until the hardware gets old enough. > The coco3 had disk basic, what would a modern coco look like? I suppose > memory protection would have to be considered and the ability to access > data > using more than 8 bits, although a compatability mode would make sense. I > think the Coco 3 was the first coco in the coco line to have compatability > issues. For one thing, every pmode 4 game you play on an RGB monitor on a > COCO 3 is in black and white. I guess what would be most interesting is > taking the best of all the computers that were popular in 1980 and making a > modern variant. Imagine a COCO 4 having the sprite technology of the > Commodore 64. > > > These days it seems like your choices are Mac or PC, not as diverse as say > 1980 when you could go with a Commodore, a TRS-80, an Apple IIe, an Atari, > etcetera. In 1980 Microsoft wasn't dominant yet. > Tandy corporation licensed software from Microsoft for the color computer, > but Microsoft wasn't the sole provider of that software. Isn't 1980 about > the time that Windows > 3.1 was getting popular? > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Nov 24 09:26:01 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:26:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124015630.GB30864@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > Perhaps if there are any skiers among you, I might enjoy your company on > Mount Hood earlier in the day. Tele-ho! Carlos, Are you a telemark skier? I skied down Galena Pass into the Stanley Basin one winter in the late 1970s. Haven't done it since I left Idaho in the late 1980s. Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Mon Nov 24 09:31:58 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:31:58 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124015630.GB30864@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Rich Shepard wrote: > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:26:01 -0800 (PST) > From: Rich Shepard > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc > > On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > >> Perhaps if there are any skiers among you, I might enjoy your company on >> Mount Hood earlier in the day. Tele-ho! > > Carlos, > > Are you a telemark skier? I skied down Galena Pass into the Stanley Basin > one winter in the late 1970s. Haven't done it since I left Idaho in the late > 1980s. > > Rich I sure am. I ski in that area all the time. It would have been neat to see you back then in your vintage backcountry gear. Carlos From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Nov 24 10:03:16 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:03:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc In-Reply-To: References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124015630.GB30864@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20081124180315.GA1722@gate.kl-ic.com> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 09:43:43AM -0700, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > > Being in Portland on the 21st is a possibility. It gives me a reason > to take the entire week of the 21st off from work. I could call it > "professional development". Perhaps if there are any skiers among > you, I might enjoy your company on Mount Hood earlier in the day. > Tele-ho! > > And of course there's my WPA situation to consider. And that reminds me. The access point at Free Geek is, of course, open, and thus we cannot practice connecting to WPA with that. Ideally, if you brought in your own access point and we plugged it into the wired ethernet at Free Geek, we could try practicing from your computer to that. If for some reason that is not possible, then please engineer an alternative - bringing a second access point, or arranging with somebody in Portland to bring a WPA-capable access point to the clinic. All my access points are too old to run WPA, IIRC. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Nov 24 10:11:30 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:11:30 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] One-time extra travelling Clinic Message-ID: <20081124181130.GB1722@gate.kl-ic.com> A friend of mine living in Saint Helens (town in Columbia County, gateway to Goble, not the mountain) expressed interest in making arrangements for a one-time additional Linux Clinic in a community center up there. That is extremely tentative, no time set, and probably won't happen anyway. If by some miracle it does, and the timing works out, is there anybody interested in travelling up there to help make it happen? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Mon Nov 24 10:42:07 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:42:07 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc In-Reply-To: <20081124180315.GA1722@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081122174438.GA29839@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081123074757.GB30868@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124015630.GB30864@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124180315.GA1722@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:03:16 -0800 > From: Keith Lofstrom > Reply-To: keithl at keithl.com, > "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Clinic, testing wireless devices, etc > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 09:43:43AM -0700, Carlos Konstanski wrote: >> >> Being in Portland on the 21st is a possibility. It gives me a reason >> to take the entire week of the 21st off from work. I could call it >> "professional development". Perhaps if there are any skiers among >> you, I might enjoy your company on Mount Hood earlier in the day. >> Tele-ho! >> >> And of course there's my WPA situation to consider. > > And that reminds me. The access point at Free Geek is, of course, > open, and thus we cannot practice connecting to WPA with that. > Ideally, if you brought in your own access point and we plugged > it into the wired ethernet at Free Geek, we could try practicing > from your computer to that. If for some reason that is not > possible, then please engineer an alternative - bringing a second > access point, or arranging with somebody in Portland to bring a > WPA-capable access point to the clinic. > > All my access points are too old to run WPA, IIRC. > > Keith I have an access point that I can bring. Carlos From plug at the-wes.com Mon Nov 24 10:47:23 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:47:23 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] One-time extra travelling Clinic In-Reply-To: <20081124181130.GB1722@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081124181130.GB1722@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > A friend of mine living in Saint Helens (town in Columbia County, > gateway to Goble, not the mountain) expressed interest in making > arrangements for a one-time additional Linux Clinic in a community > center up there. That is extremely tentative, no time set, and > probably won't happen anyway. If by some miracle it does, and > the timing works out, is there anybody interested in travelling > up there to help make it happen? > > Keith > If my schedule does not conflict, I am interested and willing. I have a large car and can carpool. -wes From johnxj at comcast.net Mon Nov 24 11:05:06 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:05:06 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Program written in R Message-ID: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> Once a long time ago I attempted to learn programming. I used a tutorial where the first instruction was to get the program to display "hello world" on the screen. I failed. I abandoned the effort. Today I need to run a program called R-Varb, written in R: http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/ I have downloaded the program, which is a .bin file. Supposedly R programs can be run on any platform. Whether that is true for Hardy x86_64 is beyond my ken. A ".bin" file smells a lot of Windows. But what do I know? Until today I had never heard of the R programming language. I do have Windows 2000 running under Virtualbox, so that is a backup solution. It's just nasty to use Windows if I can get it running in Linux. Any suggestions and comments welcome. From creswick at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 11:23:03 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:23:03 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Program written in R In-Reply-To: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:05 AM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Today I need to run a program called R-Varb, written in R: > > http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/ > > I have downloaded the program, which is a .bin file. Supposedly R > programs can be run on any platform. Whether that is true for Hardy > x86_64 is beyond my ken. A ".bin" file smells a lot of Windows. But > what do I know? Until today I had never heard of the R programming > language. I don't see any bin files on that site. Have you tried the instructions here: http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/rvarb.html (note the slight differences in the url) I think this is the file you need to download: http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/RVarb_0.2.r You'll also need to install R (it should be in synaptic). --Rogan From heinlein at madboa.com Mon Nov 24 11:26:52 2008 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:26:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Program written in R In-Reply-To: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Once a long time ago I attempted to learn programming. I used a > tutorial where the first instruction was to get the program to display > "hello world" on the screen. I failed. I abandoned the effort. > > Today I need to run a program called R-Varb, written in R: > > http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/ > > I have downloaded the program, which is a .bin file. Supposedly R > programs can be run on any platform. Whether that is true for Hardy > x86_64 is beyond my ken. A ".bin" file smells a lot of Windows. But > what do I know? Until today I had never heard of the R programming > language. > > I do have Windows 2000 running under Virtualbox, so that is a backup > solution. It's just nasty to use Windows if I can get it running in > Linux. On Debian-esque systems, try installing the r-base package. -- Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> http://www.madboa.com/ From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Nov 24 11:54:50 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:54:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Program written in R In-Reply-To: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Until today I had never heard of the R programming language. R is a statistical programming language that has apparently been extended and applied to many applications other than mathematical statistics. R runs natively on linux. The parent was the S programming language developed at AT&T's Bell Labs, and there's a commercial Microsoft-specific version called S-Plus. Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From johnxj at comcast.net Mon Nov 24 13:05:04 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:05:04 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Program written in R In-Reply-To: References: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081124130504.21afa3e4.johnxj@comcast.net> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:23:03 -0800 "Rogan Creswick" dijo: > > I have downloaded the program, which is a .bin file. Supposedly R > > programs can be run on any platform. Whether that is true for Hardy > > x86_64 is beyond my ken. A ".bin" file smells a lot of Windows. But > > what do I know? Until today I had never heard of the R programming > > language. > > I don't see any bin files on that site. Have you tried the instructions here: > > http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/rvarb.html > (note the slight differences in the url) > > I think this is the file you need to download: > > http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/RVarb_0.2.r Oh, that is what I already downloaded. The download popup in Firefox said it is a bin file, but in fact, it does not have the .bin extension. My bad. > You'll also need to install R (it should be in synaptic). Done. Now all I need is to figure out is how R-Varb works. If there are any Vulcans in here who know statistics, can we do a quick mind-meld? From kstefenp at yahoo.com Mon Nov 24 15:13:22 2008 From: kstefenp at yahoo.com (Stefen Pearson) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:13:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] postfix ubuntu 8.04 and mailhop.org Message-ID: <70971.19165.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi, I have an Ubuntu 8.04 server running postfix, and courier with ISPConfig. I am able to recieve email just fine, however sending mail is a different story. I have an account with dyndns.com for mailhop outbound. I have configured postfix to use outbound.mailhop.org:2525 as the relayhost. however when I send emails I get: host outbound.mailhop.org[63.208.196.179] said: 550 you?must authenticate to use MailHop Outbound below is postconf -n: alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases append_dot_mydomain = no biff = no broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes config_directory = /etc/postfix inet_interfaces = all inet_protocols = all mailbox_command = procmail -a "$EXTENSION" mailbox_size_limit = 0 mydestination = /etc/postfix/local-host-names, 127.0.0.1 myhostname = web.kpconsult.com mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [::ffff:127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128 myorigin = /etc/mailname readme_directory = no recipient_delimiter = + relayhost = outbound.mailhop.org:2525 smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache smtp_use_tls = yes smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu) smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated,permit_mynetworks,reject_unauth_destination smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes smtpd_sasl_authenticated_header = yes smtpd_sasl_local_domain = smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous smtpd_tls_CAfile = /etc/postfix/ssl/cacert.pem smtpd_tls_auth_only = no smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.crt smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/smtpd.key smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1 smtpd_tls_received_header = yes smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s smtpd_use_tls = yes tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom any help would be appricated. Stefen Pearson From gently at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 15:18:35 2008 From: gently at gmail.com (chris (fool) mccraw) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:18:35 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] postfix ubuntu 8.04 and mailhop.org In-Reply-To: <70971.19165.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <70971.19165.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 15:13, Stefen Pearson wrote: > any help would be appricated. did you follow the docs? http://www.dyndns.com/support/kb/mail_servers_and_mailhop_outbound.html#postfix i don't see the sasl password file in your config, for instance. From kstefenp at yahoo.com Mon Nov 24 15:25:33 2008 From: kstefenp at yahoo.com (Stefen Pearson) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:25:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] postfix ubuntu 8.04 and mailhop.org References: <70971.19165.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <23293.92853.qm@web65510.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Yes, I did follow the docs. and yes I see what you mean about it not showing up in the postconf -n, but yet in /etc/postfix/main.cf. the line exists. ? ________________________________ From: chris (fool) mccraw To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help, civil and on-topic" Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:18:35 PM Subject: Re: [PLUG] postfix ubuntu 8.04 and mailhop.org On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 15:13, Stefen Pearson wrote: > any help would be appricated. did you follow the docs? http://www.dyndns.com/support/kb/mail_servers_and_mailhop_outbound.html#postfix i don't see the sasl password file in your config, for instance. _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug From johnxj at comcast.net Mon Nov 24 17:20:38 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:20:38 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] One-time extra travelling Clinic In-Reply-To: References: <20081124181130.GB1722@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20081124172038.20b25bec.johnxj@comcast.net> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:47:23 -0800 wes dijo: > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > > > > A friend of mine living in Saint Helens (town in Columbia County, > > gateway to Goble, not the mountain) expressed interest in making > > arrangements for a one-time additional Linux Clinic in a community > > center up there. That is extremely tentative, no time set, and > > probably won't happen anyway. If by some miracle it does, and > > the timing works out, is there anybody interested in travelling > > up there to help make it happen? > > > > Keith > > > > If my schedule does not conflict, I am interested and willing. > > I have a large car and can carpool. I can and will attend, as long as it is not on or before December 12 (last final exam). The offer of carpooling is gratefully accepted. I am in N Portland and could meet at, say, the St. Johns bridge, St. Johns side where there is parking. From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Nov 24 19:14:20 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:14:20 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Downturns - more or less open source coders? Message-ID: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> We are entering a time of low employment for technical folk. I am a self-employed chip-slinger, so I am spending a lot of time preparing sales pitches and working on new products to find more business. But I wonder what the software people are doing. So, two questions for those of you that sometime participate in open source software projects: If you lost your job, and had time on your hands, would you be more or less likely to contribute to open source projects? Do you see open source as a good advertising method and resume filler, or do you see it as a distraction from job searches, desperate min-wage fill-in work, daytime TV, and getting drunk in your trailer? If you wanted to do more open source in your newly expanded spare time, what would help you do so? Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From ali.corbin at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 19:30:59 2008 From: ali.corbin at gmail.com (Ali Corbin) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:30:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Downturns - more or less open source coders? In-Reply-To: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <965f90c20811241930k4c65dfcdmdb5b1b0493366299@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > If you lost your job, and had time on your hands, would you be > more or less likely to contribute to open source projects? More likely. If only because I would have time to do it. > Do you > see open source as a good advertising method and resume filler, or > do you see it as a distraction from job searches, desperate min-wage > fill-in work, daytime TV, and getting drunk in your trailer? All of the above. Well, maybe not getting drunk in my trailer. Actually, during the last downturn when I had time on my hands, I did get involved in an open source project, but more from a desire to learn a hot new technology than to flesh out my resume. But that work, or rather that learning, did lead to a new contract and about a year's worth of work for me. Ali From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Mon Nov 24 19:57:09 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:57:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Downturns - more or less open source coders? In-Reply-To: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > We are entering a time of low employment for technical folk. Keith, This is true for many industries other than computer hardware and software. The mining industry has been hit very hard, with new mines being put on care and maintenance with most of the staff let go and head office staff trimmed. The front-desk staff at my local gym have had their hours cut to almost nothing, and they cannot live on the meager pay they now get. It's unhappy times for almost everyone. And all of us self-employed types are focused on new markets, new products or services, and finding those who still have the need and means to buy them. Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From keithl at kl-ic.com Mon Nov 24 20:11:13 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:11:13 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] One-time extra travelling Clinic In-Reply-To: <20081124172038.20b25bec.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081124181130.GB1722@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124172038.20b25bec.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081125041113.GB3033@gate.kl-ic.com> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 05:20:38PM -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:47:23 -0800 > wes dijo: > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > > > > > > > A friend of mine living in Saint Helens (town in Columbia County, > > > gateway to Goble, not the mountain) expressed interest in making > > > arrangements for a one-time additional Linux Clinic in a community > > > center up there. That is extremely tentative, no time set, and > > > probably won't happen anyway. If by some miracle it does, and > > > the timing works out, is there anybody interested in travelling > > > up there to help make it happen? > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > If my schedule does not conflict, I am interested and willing. > > > > I have a large car and can carpool. > > I can and will attend, as long as it is not on or before December 12 > (last final exam). The offer of carpooling is gratefully accepted. I am > in N Portland and could meet at, say, the St. Johns bridge, St. Johns > side where there is parking. This might be in January or later. First, the guy (named Guy, btw) has to get some people together and insure that we have access and connectivity. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From wamorita at hevanet.com Mon Nov 24 20:23:37 2008 From: wamorita at hevanet.com (William A Morita) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:23:37 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Bootable USB Media now supported directly by Ubuntu 8.10 Message-ID: <684AF9E3816C4AE1B7FE7BA755F8D6C3@RAMA> Gang, I recently found out that there is support for generating bootable "persistent" Ubuntu USB media. There is a good write-up on how to do it at http://www.pendrivelinux.com/ under "Ubuntu 8.10 built in USB flash drive installer" There are also instructions on how to create USB bootable media for other distributions of Linux. - Bill Morita wamorita at hevanet.com From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Mon Nov 24 23:16:22 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:16:22 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... Message-ID: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> Apparently, linking xml2-common to xml-common isn't enough... [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make all make: Nothing to be done for `all'. [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make setupdb gcc -O2 -fsigned-char -Wall -g -I. -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/libxml2 -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MAJOR=1 -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MINOR=6 -o setupdb register.c x86/libsetupdb.a -L/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/libxml.a -Wl,-Bstatic -lz -Wl,-Bdynamic /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathStringEvalNumber': (.text+0x2e9c): undefined reference to `pow' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathRoundFunction': (.text+0x57c8): undefined reference to `fmod' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathCeilingFunction': (.text+0x597e): undefined reference to `fmod' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathFloorFunction': (.text+0x5a67): undefined reference to `fmod' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathModValues': (.text+0x6705): undefined reference to `fmod' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathCastNumberToString': (.text+0x72c8): undefined reference to `log10' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathCompPathExpr': (.text+0xb47e): undefined reference to `pow' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': (.text+0x13cc): undefined reference to `floor' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': (.text+0x14b2): undefined reference to `floor' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': (.text+0x154c): undefined reference to `floor' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': (.text+0x16a1): undefined reference to `floor' /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': (.text+0x189d): undefined reference to `floor' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [setupdb] Error 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From russell at personaltelco.net Tue Nov 25 01:33:22 2008 From: russell at personaltelco.net (Russell Senior) Date: 25 Nov 2008 01:33:22 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] One-time extra travelling Clinic In-Reply-To: <20081125041113.GB3033@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081124181130.GB1722@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081124172038.20b25bec.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081125041113.GB3033@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <86wsesgnfh.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "Keith" == Keith Lofstrom writes: Keith> This might be in January or later. First, the guy (named Guy, Keith> btw) has to get some people together and insure that we have Keith> access and connectivity. With enough advanced notice and barring overriding family considerations, I'm willing to participate. There was once a PTP node in St Helens that I intended to check out a couple years ago as part of our node audit (to see who is up/down, offer assistance, etc), but never made it up there. -- Russell Senior, Secretary russell at personaltelco.net From seniorr at aracnet.com Tue Nov 25 01:47:26 2008 From: seniorr at aracnet.com (Russell Senior) Date: 25 Nov 2008 01:47:26 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Program written in R In-Reply-To: <20081124130504.21afa3e4.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081124110506.2e419c9c.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081124130504.21afa3e4.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <86skpggms1.fsf@coulee.tdb.com> >>>>> "John" == John Jason Jordan writes: Rogan> I don't see any bin files on that site. Have you tried the Rogan> instructions here: Rogan> Rogan> http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/rvarb.html Rogan> (note the slight differences in the url) Rogan> Rogan> I think this is the file you need to download: Rogan> Rogan> http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~paolillo/projects/varbrul/rvarb/RVarb_0.2.r John> Oh, that is what I already downloaded. The download popup in John> Firefox said it is a bin file, but in fact, it does not have the John> .bin extension. My bad. Despite it being a "binary" file, it nevertheless loads with the command in that html page (modified for the actual filename). I saved it with my browser and loaded it with the full pathname, thusly: > load("/tmp/RVarb_0.2.r") Rogan> You'll also need to install R (it should be in synaptic). John> Done. John> Now all I need is to figure out is how R-Varb works. If there John> are any Vulcans in here who know statistics, can we do a quick John> mind-meld? I don't know R-Varb, but I do have some familiarity with R. I suggest reading that html and letting us/me know what you want/need to do. Some thumbnail sketch of wtf VARBRUL is might help as well, though I guess this could serve as an introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VARBRUL -- Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.'' seniorr at aracnet.com From david.fleck at mchsi.com Tue Nov 25 05:05:26 2008 From: david.fleck at mchsi.com (David Fleck) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:05:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... In-Reply-To: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, someone wrote: > Apparently, linking xml2-common to xml-common isn't enough... > > [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make all > make: Nothing to be done for `all'. > [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make setupdb > gcc -O2 -fsigned-char -Wall -g -I. -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/libxml2 > -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MAJOR=1 -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MINOR=6 -o setupdb > register.c x86/libsetupdb.a -L/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/libxml.a > -Wl,-Bstatic -lz -Wl,-Bdynamic > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathStringEvalNumber': > (.text+0x2e9c): undefined reference to `pow' ... > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > make: *** [setupdb] Error 1 You probably need to include the math library ( -lm ) in the link arguments. -- David Fleck david.fleck at mchsi.com From larry.brigman at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 08:15:26 2008 From: larry.brigman at gmail.com (Larry Brigman) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:15:26 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... In-Reply-To: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:16 PM, someone wrote: > Apparently, linking xml2-common to xml-common isn't enough... > > [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make all > make: Nothing to be done for `all'. > [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make setupdb > gcc -O2 -fsigned-char -Wall -g -I. -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/libxml2 > -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MAJOR=1 -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MINOR=6 -o setupdb > register.c x86/libsetupdb.a -L/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/libxml.a > -Wl,-Bstatic -lz -Wl,-Bdynamic > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathStringEvalNumber': > (.text+0x2e9c): undefined reference to `pow' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathRoundFunction': > (.text+0x57c8): undefined reference to `fmod' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathCeilingFunction': > (.text+0x597e): undefined reference to `fmod' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathFloorFunction': > (.text+0x5a67): undefined reference to `fmod' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathModValues': > (.text+0x6705): undefined reference to `fmod' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathCastNumberToString': > (.text+0x72c8): undefined reference to `log10' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathCompPathExpr': > (.text+0xb47e): undefined reference to `pow' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': > (.text+0x13cc): undefined reference to `floor' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': > (.text+0x14b2): undefined reference to `floor' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': > (.text+0x154c): undefined reference to `floor' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': > (.text+0x16a1): undefined reference to `floor' > /usr/lib/libxml.a(xmlschemastypes.o): In function `xmlSchemaDateNormalize': > (.text+0x189d): undefined reference to `floor' > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > make: *** [setupdb] Error 1 > > There are packages for libxml2. I have them available to me and installed. I',m running CentOS 5 on a desktop at work. From ron at tymeless-tech.com Tue Nov 25 09:37:17 2008 From: ron at tymeless-tech.com (Ron LeVine) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:37:17 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Linux, PHP and Barcode Scanning Message-ID: <8D9963F1CF684B2D830F0AB86B7F3F4F@ronPC> Greetings, I am trying to write a small app that will update a database remotely using a barcode scanner and some keyboard input. I am building a client-server app that will be on Linux both as the client and want it to run via a web interface. Anyone know of a good site with info on how to accomplish this? It doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to do. Thanks in advance, Ron From plug at the-wes.com Tue Nov 25 11:07:01 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:07:01 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Linux, PHP and Barcode Scanning In-Reply-To: <8D9963F1CF684B2D830F0AB86B7F3F4F@ronPC> References: <8D9963F1CF684B2D830F0AB86B7F3F4F@ronPC> Message-ID: If you're using a web interface, why bother with creating a client? -wes On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Ron LeVine wrote: > Greetings, > > I am trying to write a small app that will update a database remotely using > a barcode scanner and some keyboard input. I am building a client-server app > that will be on Linux both as the client and want it to run via a web > interface. > > Anyone know of a good site with info on how to accomplish this? It doesn't > seem like it would be all that hard to do. > > Thanks in advance, > Ron > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 11:19:59 2008 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:19:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Linux, PHP and Barcode Scanning In-Reply-To: <8D9963F1CF684B2D830F0AB86B7F3F4F@ronPC> References: <8D9963F1CF684B2D830F0AB86B7F3F4F@ronPC> Message-ID: <200811251119.59602.scratchcomputing@gmail.com> # from Ron LeVine # on Tuesday 25 November 2008 09:37: >I am trying to write a small app that will update a database remotely > using a barcode scanner and some keyboard input. I am building a > client-server app that will be on Linux both as the client and want > it to run via a web interface. Hi Ron, Are you talking about using the browser as the interface or simply communicating via a web API (e.g. RESTful/etc)? If the client is any-old-browser, I think you're going to have a hard time treating the barcode scanner as anything other than "the keyboard" (that is, the correct field would have to have keyboard focus when the barcode is scanned.) For something which specifically handles the scanner input, you need to be able to claim the input device away from the kernel/X. A straightforward form application in wxPerl would be a pretty trivial client where you could attach to the barcode scanner via libusb. http://search.cpan.org/dist/Linux-USBKeyboard/ That also includes a sample wxWidgets application meant for a ten-key pad, but another sort of select loop might be more appropriate for barcode-only input. --Eric -- A counterintuitive sansevieria trifasciata was once literalized guiltily. --Product of Artificial Intelligence --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Tue Nov 25 14:14:29 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:14:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Downturns - more or less open source coders? In-Reply-To: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:14:20 -0800 > From: Keith Lofstrom > Reply-To: keithl at keithl.com, > "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: PLUG > Subject: [PLUG] Downturns - more or less open source coders? > > > We are entering a time of low employment for technical folk. I > am a self-employed chip-slinger, so I am spending a lot of time > preparing sales pitches and working on new products to find more > business. But I wonder what the software people are doing. > > So, two questions for those of you that sometime participate in > open source software projects: > > If you lost your job, and had time on your hands, would you be > more or less likely to contribute to open source projects? Do you > see open source as a good advertising method and resume filler, or > do you see it as a distraction from job searches, desperate min-wage > fill-in work, daytime TV, and getting drunk in your trailer? > > If you wanted to do more open source in your newly expanded spare > time, what would help you do so? > > Keith Whenever I write software, the goal is to streamline business processes. This results in savings. Usually these savings can be realized in well under a year. I use this as the main selling point with clients. I may start by writing a website, but it doesn't take long before I notice the way they enter the same data into 3 different systems, all manually, with no checks for consistency. For every application I've written that has a user interface, I've written a dozen jobs that are invisible, with the purpose to tie two disparate systems together, usually to perform automatic data migration. In fact, most of the visible apps I've written fulfill similar purposes. Upload a csv file, push a button, done! If I lost my job, I would certainly work on open source projects more. I always want to; but I rarely have time. I want to contribute to those projects which I have used heavily in my professional work, like JDEE and slime. I wish I could be a steady contributor in the gentoo lisp herd. The #1 factor in failing to devote myself entirely to open source work is money. If I were to win the lottery, I would immediately start an open souce campaign (and quit my job, of course). Although my wish to work on the above mentioned projects comes from a desire to give back to a community that has given so much to me, I have to admit that working on certain projects can really help a resume when looking for certain jobs. But I don't want to work for an employer in a typical corporate environment any more, so that's not a big motivator. (There are rare exceptions; I have had one or two really great bosses. Their greatness compared against the average middle manager proves the rule.) There are relatively few employers who would even take notice of open souce project participation. These employers would be more intrigued by Oracle experience or J2EE certification. But those jobs where it would count are the best jobs. Carlos Konstanski From rsteff at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 14:22:07 2008 From: rsteff at comcast.net (Richard C. Steffens) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:22:07 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 Message-ID: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> I installed Apache with synaptic on my Ubuntu Hardy system and have get "It works!" page when I surf to localhost localhost. I find the file that produces "It works!" in /var/www/index.html. The current ownership of /var/www is root:root. Should I change that to root:(some-web-group) and add myself to the group, or is there a another preferred approach to allowing myself to edit files for my local web site? -- Regards, Dick Steffens From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Tue Nov 25 14:36:35 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:36:35 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 In-Reply-To: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> References: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Richard C. Steffens wrote: > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:22:07 -0800 > From: Richard C. Steffens > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: PLUG List > Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 > > I installed Apache with synaptic on my Ubuntu Hardy system and have get > "It works!" page when I surf to localhost localhost. I find the file > that produces "It works!" in /var/www/index.html. The current ownership > of /var/www is root:root. Should I change that to root:(some-web-group) > and add myself to the group, or is there a another preferred approach to > allowing myself to edit files for my local web site? > > -- > Regards, > > Dick Steffens There are probably a lot of different answers to this question. My answer is to never use the default apache DocumentRoot directly. Instead, I always make VirtualHost directives that point to DocumentRoots that lie deeper than /var/www. For instance, here is my "default" web location on my workstation: ServerName sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com ServerAdmin ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com DocumentRoot "/var/www/html/site/sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com" Options Indexes Includes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI AllowOverride Limit Allow from all Order allow,deny In gentoo, you get /var/www/html for free. I built the rest of the path. /var/www/html is still owned by root on my system. So is /var/www/html/site. (There is a /var/www/html/users that gentoo provided for UserDir, but I have that disabled. I created the site/ directory so that this directory level would remain uncluttered.) /var/www/html/site/sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com is the first directory in this tree that is owned by a normal user. I like this aproach because you might want to put other things in /var/www/html (or the equivalent on your system), like a cgi-bin directory, a webdav permissions directory, or a subversion repo. I would keep this from being browseable. Carlos Konstanski From heinlein at madboa.com Tue Nov 25 15:02:35 2008 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:02:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 In-Reply-To: References: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > There are probably a lot of different answers to this question. My > answer is to never use the default apache DocumentRoot directly. > Instead, I always make VirtualHost directives that point to > DocumentRoots that lie deeper than /var/www. There are a couple different reasons why I'd wholeheartedly agree with Carlos' advice: 1. setting up virtual hosts from the get-go means that you can have a staging or testing server to which to push changes before they go live. 2. if you want to cut down on a *lot* of mischievous web traffic -- assuming this web server is addressable via the Internet, which might not be the case -- set the default (first) virtualhost to deny all traffic. that way IP-based scanners won't plague your site, only name-based HTTP 1.1 requests will get through. 3. setting up virtual hosts with DocumentRoot directives pointing to directories that are not maintained by the packaging system, allows you to set permissions you know a package will never overwrite. my new favorite is in /srv, which is the LSB-blessed location for "site-specific data which is served by the system." -- Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> http://www.madboa.com/ From lnxknight at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 15:47:20 2008 From: lnxknight at gmail.com (Matt McKenzie) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:47:20 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) Message-ID: For those living under a rock or just haven't heard yet- Fedora 10 "Cambridge" is released into the wild. Get the bits and be happy: http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-all i686, x86-64, ppc. GNOME 2.24 and KDE 4.1, OpenOffice 3. Release announcement: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=205075 -- ---------- Matt M. LinuxKnight From rsteff at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 15:52:23 2008 From: rsteff at comcast.net (Richard C. Steffens) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:52:23 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 In-Reply-To: References: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> Message-ID: <492C8FB7.1070708@comcast.net> Carlos Konstanski wrote: > There are probably a lot of different answers to this question. My > answer is to never use the default apache DocumentRoot directly. > Instead, I always make VirtualHost directives that point to > DocumentRoots that lie deeper than /var/www. For instance, here is my > "default" web location on my workstation: > > > ServerName sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com > ServerAdmin ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com > DocumentRoot "/var/www/html/site/sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com" > > Options Indexes Includes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI > AllowOverride Limit > Allow from all > Order allow,deny > > > Does that replace the in /etc/apache2/sites-available, or is it added to that file? > In gentoo, you get /var/www/html for free. In Ubuntu you get /var/www with only an index.html file included. > I built the rest of the > path. /var/www/html is still owned by root on my system. So is > /var/www/html/site. (There is a /var/www/html/users that gentoo > provided for UserDir, but I have that disabled. I created the site/ > directory so that this directory level would remain uncluttered.) > /var/www/html/site/sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com is the first directory > in this tree that is owned by a normal user. > I think I understand the concept, and it even makes sense to me! -- Regards, Dick Steffens From danielmyoung at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 15:53:55 2008 From: danielmyoung at gmail.com (Dan Young) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:53:55 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 In-Reply-To: References: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2e42bd9b0811251553u3e7368e1tfef410996482a388@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: > overwrite. my new favorite is in /srv, which is the LSB-blessed > location for "site-specific data which is served by the system." You're the one! Honestly though, I don't know why use of /srv hasn't taken off [1], given how overloaded /var is. [1] At least in the straw poll of people to whom I talk. -- Dan Young From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Tue Nov 25 15:54:42 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:54:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 In-Reply-To: <492C8FB7.1070708@comcast.net> References: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> <492C8FB7.1070708@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Richard C. Steffens wrote: > Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:52:23 -0800 > From: Richard C. Steffens > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 > > Carlos Konstanski wrote: >> There are probably a lot of different answers to this question. My >> answer is to never use the default apache DocumentRoot directly. >> Instead, I always make VirtualHost directives that point to >> DocumentRoots that lie deeper than /var/www. For instance, here is my >> "default" web location on my workstation: >> >> >> ServerName sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com >> ServerAdmin ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com >> DocumentRoot "/var/www/html/site/sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com" >> >> Options Indexes Includes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI >> AllowOverride Limit >> Allow from all >> Order allow,deny >> >> >> > Does that replace the in /etc/apache2/sites-available, > or is it added to that file? >> In gentoo, you get /var/www/html for free. > In Ubuntu you get /var/www with only an index.html file included. >> I built the rest of the >> path. /var/www/html is still owned by root on my system. So is >> /var/www/html/site. (There is a /var/www/html/users that gentoo >> provided for UserDir, but I have that disabled. I created the site/ >> directory so that this directory level would remain uncluttered.) >> /var/www/html/site/sphinktoo.pippiandcarlos.com is the first directory >> in this tree that is owned by a normal user. >> > I think I understand the concept, and it even makes sense to me! > > > -- > Regards, > > Dick Steffens I'm not familiar with ubuntu, so I can't say for sure what their default VirtualHosts entry looks like. But I'd guess that you want to replace it with one like my example. For the example I gave is my "default" VirtualHost; I have many others on my machine, but this is the one that answers to the "raw" hostname of my box (or "localhost", for that matter). Carlos From rsteff at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 16:12:04 2008 From: rsteff at comcast.net (Richard C. Steffens) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:12:04 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 In-Reply-To: References: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> <492C8FB7.1070708@comcast.net> Message-ID: <492C9454.60700@comcast.net> Carlos Konstanski wrote: > I'm not familiar with ubuntu, so I can't say for sure what their > default VirtualHosts entry looks like. But I'd guess that you want to > replace it with one like my example. For the example I gave is my > "default" VirtualHost; I have many others on my machine, but this is > the one that answers to the "raw" hostname of my box (or "localhost", > for that matter). > OK. (I'm also trying to merge the information from other responses to see what ultimately makes sense for my situation.) Thanks for the ideas. -- Regards, Dick Steffens From johnxj at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 17:04:16 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:04:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:47:20 -0800 "Matt McKenzie" dijo: > For those living under a rock or just haven't heard yet- > Fedora 10 "Cambridge" is released into the wild. > > Get the bits and be happy: > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-all > > i686, x86-64, ppc. GNOME 2.24 and KDE 4.1, OpenOffice 3. > > Release announcement: > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=205075 Currntly downloading all versions for the Clinic USB drive. Sadly, Ktorrent says the x86_64 DVD will take roughly 62 years to finish. :( The others will be done within the day, however. From lnxknight at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 18:10:50 2008 From: lnxknight at gmail.com (Matt McKenzie) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:10:50 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:04 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:47:20 -0800 > "Matt McKenzie" dijo: > > > For those living under a rock or just haven't heard yet- > > Fedora 10 "Cambridge" is released into the wild. > > > > Get the bits and be happy: > > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-all > > > > i686, x86-64, ppc. GNOME 2.24 and KDE 4.1, OpenOffice 3. > > > > Release announcement: > > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=205075 > > Currntly downloading all versions for the Clinic USB drive. Sadly, Ktorrent > says the x86_64 DVD will take roughly 62 years to finish. :( The others > will be done within the day, however. > > Hmm interesting. I already finished downloading i686 LiveCD, and the x86_64 DVD torrent is downloading nicely, be done in less than half an hour, total time about 4.5 hours. I'm using Azureus. Perhaps you want to re-update the tracker or something, or maybe just give it more time it will even out. I'm showing about 700 seeds and 2400 peers in the x86_64 DVD swarm. -- ---------- Matt M. LinuxKnight From johnxj at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 18:39:18 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:39:18 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081125183918.d2ffa264.johnxj@comcast.net> On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:10:50 -0800 "Matt McKenzie" dijo: > Hmm interesting. I already finished downloading i686 LiveCD, and the x86_64 > DVD torrent is downloading nicely, be done in less than half an hour, total > time about 4.5 hours. I'm using Azureus. Perhaps you want to re-update the > tracker or something, or maybe just give it more time it will even out. > I'm showing about 700 seeds and 2400 peers in the x86_64 DVD swarm. Very interesting, indeed. It did pick up and I now have someone in China who is feeding me, albeit slowly. Ktorrent says it is now down to only five days. I was starting to plan for how I was going to last 62 years to get it all. :) More interesting is that I currently show only ten seeders. The tracker is http://torrent/fedoraproject.org:696/announce. How can you show 700 seeders and I see only ten? I mean, if Ktorrent is that bad, surely someone would have kvetched loudly long before now. Maybe there is a setting I need to tweak in Ktorrent? From johnxj at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 18:40:49 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:40:49 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081125184049.59040856.johnxj@comcast.net> On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:10:50 -0800 "Matt McKenzie" dijo: > Hmm interesting. I already finished downloading i686 LiveCD, and the x86_64 > DVD torrent is downloading nicely, be done in less than half an hour, total > time about 4.5 hours. I'm using Azureus. Perhaps you want to re-update the > tracker or something, or maybe just give it more time it will even out. > I'm showing about 700 seeds and 2400 peers in the x86_64 DVD swarm. Wait, when I look at the Trackers window it does show 732 seeders. It's in the Peers window where I see only ten. Hmmm. From znmeb at cesmail.net Tue Nov 25 18:39:27 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (znmeb at cesmail.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:39:27 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081125213927.e4zf7p65ckcgwocc-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Matt McKenzie : > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:04 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > >> On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:47:20 -0800 >> "Matt McKenzie" dijo: >> >> > For those living under a rock or just haven't heard yet- >> > Fedora 10 "Cambridge" is released into the wild. >> > >> > Get the bits and be happy: >> > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-all >> > >> > i686, x86-64, ppc. GNOME 2.24 and KDE 4.1, OpenOffice 3. >> > >> > Release announcement: >> > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=205075 >> >> Currntly downloading all versions for the Clinic USB drive. Sadly, Ktorrent >> says the x86_64 DVD will take roughly 62 years to finish. :( The others >> will be done within the day, however. >> >> > Hmm interesting. I already finished downloading i686 LiveCD, and the x86_64 > DVD torrent is downloading nicely, be done in less than half an hour, total > time about 4.5 hours. I'm using Azureus. Perhaps you want to re-update the > tracker or something, or maybe just give it more time it will even out. > I'm showing about 700 seeds and 2400 peers in the x86_64 DVD swarm. > > > > -- > ---------- > Matt M. > LinuxKnight > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > Yeah, "bittorrent" gave me similar dire predictions of ETA. Maybe Comcast is playing games again. I went to http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/10/ and grabbed things with wget. :) From znmeb at cesmail.net Tue Nov 25 18:36:43 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (znmeb at cesmail.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:36:43 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081125213643.lq1h43xm8s4s8k4o-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Matt McKenzie : > For those living under a rock or just haven't heard yet- > Fedora 10 "Cambridge" is released into the wild. > > Get the bits and be happy: > http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-all > > i686, x86-64, ppc. GNOME 2.24 and KDE 4.1, OpenOffice 3. > > Release announcement: > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=205075 I've got it downloaded and running in a 32-bit VMware (WS 6.5) virtual machine. So far I'm not terribly impressed, although I don't know how many of the issues are VMware-related and how many are Fedora. I've also got openSUSE 11.1 Beta 5 running on my laptop, and aside from some kind of Synaptics TouchPad configuration issue I haven't had time to troubleshoot, it's stable and does everything I want. The touchpad runs fine as "just a mouse", but it doesn't do the Synaptics "extensions" right. So I think I'm going to pass on Fedora 10 and stay with openSUSE 11.x on the laptop, and stay with Gentoo on the desktop. When "Lenny" goes stable, that might change. Aside from the rather bizarre way Debian handles Ruby packaging (called "broken", "FUBAR", etc. by many in the Ruby community), I don't see any reason not to run Debian on "all" of my machines. From lnxknight at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 21:51:15 2008 From: lnxknight at gmail.com (Matt McKenzie) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:51:15 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: <20081125184049.59040856.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081125184049.59040856.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 6:40 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:10:50 -0800 > "Matt McKenzie" dijo: > > > Hmm interesting. I already finished downloading i686 LiveCD, and the > x86_64 > > DVD torrent is downloading nicely, be done in less than half an hour, > total > > time about 4.5 hours. I'm using Azureus. Perhaps you want to re-update > the > > tracker or something, or maybe just give it more time it will even out. > > I'm showing about 700 seeds and 2400 peers in the x86_64 DVD swarm. > > Wait, when I look at the Trackers window it does show 732 seeders. It's > in the Peers window where I see only ten. Hmmm. > Note that I am talking about *available* seeds and *available* peers, not how many I'm actually connected to. I don't have that big of a pipe ;) -- ---------- Matt M. LinuxKnight From lnxknight at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 21:57:01 2008 From: lnxknight at gmail.com (Matt McKenzie) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:57:01 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: <20081125213643.lq1h43xm8s4s8k4o-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20081125213643.lq1h43xm8s4s8k4o-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 6:36 PM, wrote: > Quoting Matt McKenzie : > > For those living under a rock or just haven't heard yet- >> Fedora 10 "Cambridge" is released into the wild. >> >> Get the bits and be happy: >> http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-all >> >> i686, x86-64, ppc. GNOME 2.24 and KDE 4.1, OpenOffice 3. >> >> Release announcement: >> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=205075 >> > > I've got it downloaded and running in a 32-bit VMware (WS 6.5) virtual > machine. So far I'm not terribly impressed, although I don't know how many > of the issues are VMware-related and how many are Fedora. I've also got > openSUSE 11.1 Beta 5 running on my laptop, and aside from some kind of > Synaptics TouchPad configuration issue I haven't had time to troubleshoot, > it's stable and does everything I want. The touchpad runs fine as "just a > mouse", but it doesn't do the Synaptics "extensions" right. So I think I'm > going to pass on Fedora 10 and stay with openSUSE 11.x on the laptop, and > stay with Gentoo on the desktop. > > When "Lenny" goes stable, that might change. Aside from the rather bizarre > way Debian handles Ruby packaging (called "broken", "FUBAR", etc. by many in > the Ruby community), I don't see any reason not to run Debian on "all" of my > machines. > Well if you like SuSE and Gentoo and Debian more power to ya. I think though to be fair and give Fedora an honest evaluation on *your* actual hardware you should give it a go with a LiveCD (or Live USB) instead of just running it in VMWare and giving up on it. Care to elaborate on what didn't impress you with Fedora, that you see present in OpenSuSE or Gentoo? Note I am a Fedora Ambassador so I may be a little biased, but I have used and continue to use other distros (Ubuntu and Debian, along with Fedora, currently). I've been a RedHat/Fedora user a lot longer than Ambassador though. -- ---------- Matt M. LinuxKnight From johnxj at comcast.net Tue Nov 25 22:23:17 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:23:17 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: <20081125170416.5fd69414.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081125184049.59040856.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081125222317.46e872f2.johnxj@comcast.net> On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:51:15 -0800 "Matt McKenzie" dijo: > > Wait, when I look at the Trackers window it does show 732 seeders. It's > > in the Peers window where I see only ten. Hmmm. > Note that I am talking about *available* seeds and *available* peers, not > how many I'm actually connected to. > I don't have that big of a pipe ;) OK, that's what I don't understand. I see 732 presumably available, but in the peers window I see only ten or a dozen. Assuming I understand what you are saying, the ten or a dozen are the ones I am connected to. But I have cable and pretty decent bandwith, yet Ktorrent says my overall download speed from all ten or a dozen is only 50-60 KB/s. Why am I not getting a feed from the others up to the amount of bandwidth I have available? From engagedtone at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 22:24:44 2008 From: engagedtone at gmail.com (Amy Kelly) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:24:44 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: <20081125213643.lq1h43xm8s4s8k4o-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: I've been using it since the beta, my wireless card needs the newer kernel and my basic laziness wins over compiling my own. Tried to get the card going in Ubuntu 8.04 and even with NDIS wrapper I couldn't get it to work. I'm fairly sure it works in 8.10, I just got settled with this install and have low motivation to go futzing with it now that it works. I got the .iso from the OSU site in about 4 hours, the torrent that going is working on 12 hours and less than 85%. I'm leaving it going mostly to seed. -- Amy Kelly // engagedtone at gmail.com From znmeb at cesmail.net Wed Nov 26 01:44:22 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:44:22 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Fedora 10 released! :) In-Reply-To: References: <20081125213643.lq1h43xm8s4s8k4o-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <492D1A76.90009@cesmail.net> Matt McKenzie wrote: > Well if you like SuSE and Gentoo and Debian more power to ya. > > I think though to be fair and give Fedora an honest evaluation on *your* > actual hardware you should give it a go with a LiveCD (or Live USB) instead > of just running it in VMWare and giving up on it. > > Care to elaborate on what didn't impress you with Fedora, that you see > present in OpenSuSE or Gentoo? It's mostly that there don't seem to be *more* packages in Fedora 10 than there are in OpenSuSE 11.0 / 11.1. The short history is that I have two machines, a 4 GB Athlon64 X2 desktop running Gentoo and an ancient Compaq Presario dual-booted XP and some random version of Linux. The laptop used to be Gentoo, but I left it powered off for a couple of months and by the time I brought it back up, I was looking at days of compiles in a 512 MB 1.6 GHz machine to make it current. So I started testing binary distros on it. First Etch and then I settled on Fedora 9. It ran Fedora 9 for a while, but I had some problems with LCD projectors and my wireless USB gizmo didn't work. When openSUSE 11.0 came out, I tried it, and the wireless worked out of the box. So the laptop was on openSUSE 11.0 until 11.1 beta 4 came out, at which point I switched. It's stable and I don't plan to change it until at least mid-December. The desktop is still on Gentoo, but I am strongly considering moving it to a binary distro as well. Again, nothing is going to happen until mid-December, but in the end I will probably rebuild both the laptop and the desktop to the same OS, either openSUSE 11.1 or Debian Lenny. Ubuntu is not a candidate. > Note I am a Fedora Ambassador so I may be a little biased, but I have used > and continue to use other distros (Ubuntu and Debian, along with Fedora, > currently). I've been a RedHat/Fedora user a lot longer than Ambassador > though. I used to be a Gentoo advocate, as most of the denizens of this list know. There's nothing wrong with Gentoo once you get it all set up, but they've let their release engineering process essentially collapse, so the installer is just as bad as it was a year ago, they cancelled 2008.1 and the 2008.0 LiveCD didn't even boot on my laptop. My Gentoo desktop is about as solid as you can expect for someone who runs "testing" level with a couple of overlays. But there's a lot of software out there that's not in Portage but is in Debian. And having two different distros on the desktop and the laptop isn't an ideal way to live. So I am guessing when all is said and done, both machines will be running Lenny, with R and Ruby built from source rather than from the Debian packages. -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com/ "A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -- Alfr?d R?nyi via Paul Erd?s From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Wed Nov 26 01:44:35 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:44:35 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... In-Reply-To: References: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20081126014435.iek8r8b8f4ckk8wo@xerxes.robinson-west.com> Quoting David Fleck : > On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, someone wrote: >> Apparently, linking xml2-common to xml-common isn't enough... >> >> [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make all >> make: Nothing to be done for `all'. >> [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make setupdb >> gcc -O2 -fsigned-char -Wall -g -I. -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/libxml2 >> -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MAJOR=1 -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MINOR=6 -o setupdb >> register.c x86/libsetupdb.a -L/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/libxml.a >> -Wl,-Bstatic -lz -Wl,-Bdynamic >> /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathStringEvalNumber': >> (.text+0x2e9c): undefined reference to `pow' > ... >> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status >> make: *** [setupdb] Error 1 > > You probably need to include the math library ( -lm ) in the link > arguments. That worked... but there's a new problem trying to configure loki_setup to compile it... checking for libglade-config... /usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/opt/dirkdashing:/root/bin ./configure: line 12226: /usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/opt/dirkdashing:/root/bin: No such file or directory ./configure: line 12227: /usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/opt/dirkdashing:/root/bin: No such file or directory I yum searched for the package that provides libglade-config and didn't get an answer back. I am on a CentOS 5 system. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From znmeb at cesmail.net Wed Nov 26 01:55:25 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:55:25 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Downturns - more or less open source coders? In-Reply-To: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <492D1D0D.5050901@cesmail.net> Keith Lofstrom wrote: > We are entering a time of low employment for technical folk. I > am a self-employed chip-slinger, so I am spending a lot of time > preparing sales pitches and working on new products to find more > business. But I wonder what the software people are doing. > > So, two questions for those of you that sometime participate in > open source software projects: > > If you lost your job, and had time on your hands, would you be > more or less likely to contribute to open source projects? More likely, mostly because there is very little chance of getting a new tech gig without a solid open source track record. > Do you > see open source as a good advertising method and resume filler, or > do you see it as a distraction from job searches, desperate min-wage > fill-in work, daytime TV, and getting drunk in your trailer? It's not about advertising or resume filler ... it's about contributing useful software. > > If you wanted to do more open source in your newly expanded spare > time, what would help you do so? Low-cost health insurance. :) -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com/ "A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -- Alfr?d R?nyi via Paul Erd?s From heinlein at madboa.com Wed Nov 26 06:56:37 2008 From: heinlein at madboa.com (Paul Heinlein) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:56:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Ownership of /var/www on Ubuntu 8.04 In-Reply-To: <2e42bd9b0811251553u3e7368e1tfef410996482a388@mail.gmail.com> References: <492C7A8F.9000403@comcast.net> <2e42bd9b0811251553u3e7368e1tfef410996482a388@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Dan Young wrote: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: >> overwrite. my new favorite is in /srv, which is the LSB-blessed >> location for "site-specific data which is served by the system." > > You're the one! > > Honestly though, I don't know why use of /srv hasn't taken off [1], > given how overloaded /var is. > > [1] At least in the straw poll of people to whom I talk. /srv is well populated on the machines I maintain: /srv/svn -- Subversion repos /srv/git -- Git repos /srv/trac -- Trac instances /srv/www -- virtual hosts Etc. Plus, you can back up /srv as a whole, while /var needs to be dissected for what should (lib) and shouldn't (tmp, lock, run) be backed up. -- Paul Heinlein <> heinlein at madboa.com <> http://www.madboa.com/ From larry.brigman at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 07:56:12 2008 From: larry.brigman at gmail.com (Larry Brigman) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:56:12 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... In-Reply-To: <20081126014435.iek8r8b8f4ckk8wo@xerxes.robinson-west.com> References: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> <20081126014435.iek8r8b8f4ckk8wo@xerxes.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, someone wrote: > Quoting David Fleck : > >> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, someone wrote: >>> Apparently, linking xml2-common to xml-common isn't enough... >>> >>> [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make all >>> make: Nothing to be done for `all'. >>> [root at eagle loki_setupdb]# make setupdb >>> gcc -O2 -fsigned-char -Wall -g -I. -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include/libxml2 >>> -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MAJOR=1 -DSETUPDB_VERSION_MINOR=6 -o setupdb >>> register.c x86/libsetupdb.a -L/usr/local/lib /usr/lib/libxml.a >>> -Wl,-Bstatic -lz -Wl,-Bdynamic >>> /usr/lib/libxml.a(xpath.o): In function `xmlXPathStringEvalNumber': >>> (.text+0x2e9c): undefined reference to `pow' >> ... >>> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status >>> make: *** [setupdb] Error 1 >> >> You probably need to include the math library ( -lm ) in the link >> arguments. > > That worked... but there's a new problem trying to configure loki_setup > to compile it... > > checking for libglade-config... > /usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/opt/dirkdashing:/root/bin > ./configure: line 12226: > /usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/opt/dirkdashing:/root/bin: No such file or > directory > ./configure: line 12227: > /usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/opt/dirkdashing:/root/bin: No such file or > directory > > I yum searched for the package that provides libglade-config > and didn't get an answer back. I am on a CentOS 5 system. > Because that is in the -devel package. The base package is libglade2 [lbrigman-cc at lbrigman-desktop linux]$ yum list "libglade2*" Loading "fastestmirror" plugin Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * epel: mirror.its.uidaho.edu * rpmforge: apt.sw.be * supplementary: area51 * base: mirrors.tummy.com * updates: mirrors.cat.pdx.edu * addons: mirror.dhsrv.com * extras: mirrors.cat.pdx.edu Installed Packages libglade2.x86_64 2.6.0-2 installed libglade2.i386 2.6.0-2 installed Available Packages libglade2-devel.x86_64 2.6.0-2 base libglade2-devel.i386 2.6.0-2 base [lbrigman-cc at lbrigman-desktop linux]$ From michael at jamhome.us Wed Nov 26 09:31:31 2008 From: michael at jamhome.us (Michael) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:31:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] scp weird problem of the day Message-ID: <25743.170.135.241.46.1227720691.squirrel@mail.jamhome.us> The location of the scp command varies based on the host I'm trying to get files from? $ scp server-a:/opt/file/filename . michael at server-a's password: filename 100% |*****************************| 6098 00:00 $ scp server-b:/opt/file/filename . bash: scp: command not found $ which scp /usr/bin/scp -- Michael Rasmussen http://www.jamhome.us/ Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity From gently at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 09:45:50 2008 From: gently at gmail.com (chris (fool) mccraw) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:45:50 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] scp weird problem of the day In-Reply-To: <25743.170.135.241.46.1227720691.squirrel@mail.jamhome.us> References: <25743.170.135.241.46.1227720691.squirrel@mail.jamhome.us> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 09:31, Michael wrote: > > The location of the scp command varies based on the host I'm trying to get > files from? > > $ scp server-a:/opt/file/filename . > michael at server-a's password: > filename 100% |*****************************| 6098 00:00 > $ scp server-b:/opt/file/filename . > bash: scp: command not found > $ which scp > /usr/bin/scp i believe it is failing to find scp on the remote host. ssh/scp (sometimes, at least) do some tricks with calling themselves on the remote side after sshd accepts the connection. From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Nov 26 09:49:19 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:49:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] scp weird problem of the day In-Reply-To: <25743.170.135.241.46.1227720691.squirrel@mail.jamhome.us> References: <25743.170.135.241.46.1227720691.squirrel@mail.jamhome.us> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Michael wrote: > The location of the scp command varies based on the host I'm trying to get > files from? Michael, Perhaps not. > $ scp server-b:/opt/file/filename . > bash: scp: command not found > $ which scp > /usr/bin/scp Wouldn't this be the same scp regardless of which remote server you're accessing? If you provide the fully-qualified domain name to the transfer from server-b do you still see the same error? Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From keithl at kl-ic.com Wed Nov 26 10:16:36 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:16:36 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open source and medical care (was Downturns ... ) In-Reply-To: <492D1D0D.5050901@cesmail.net> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> <492D1D0D.5050901@cesmail.net> Message-ID: <20081126181636.GA14359@gate.kl-ic.com> ( note - this is about open source, but may need to move to plug-talk anyway) Keith Lofstrom wrote: >If you wanted to do more open source in your newly expanded spare >time, what would help you do so? On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 01:55:25AM -0800, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > Low-cost health insurance. :) You are onto something. There is a great opportunity here. How many of you would be willing to trade coding labor for doctor labor? How many of you would be willing to re-educate yourselves, replacing bad health ideas with good ones, in return for helping doctors replace bad I.T. ideas with good ones, and use automation and the Internet to multiply medical effectiveness? Start with the amazing (but true) idea that 90% of your health outcomes are dependent on your own efforts, independent of medical procedures. There are some powerful interests that are infantilizing you, filling you with fear (and junk food and physical passivity) while fostering an unhealthy dependency on professional-provided services. Kinda like the way M$ and others spread the FUD that individuals can't do software, only big companies can. In both cases, individuals are disempowered. The solution in both cases is individual re-empowerment. Health care is easier. It is easier to learn good health habits than learn to write world class software. It is easier to help a sick friend than to de-virus a computer. In most cases, bad computer outcomes can be minimized through user training and proper programming. The same is true with health. Doctors aren't completely unnecessary, but most of what they can do for you is diagnostic ("stop worrying, it's XXX, and you will heal naturally in a week or two") and patient training ("Twinkies are not health food"). The latter is difficult - Hostess spends billions training us to eat Twinkies - but we own the Internet, and we can use it for our own training. A lot of the training is outside the talent set of INTJ borderline-Asperger technologists, but there are a lot of non-techies available to help. The really good news is that most of the solution is informational, and we are really good at slinging information. Let's talk specifics. There are a lot of really bad clinical infosystems - so bad that they kill people and drive clinics out of business. The coders that wrote them may mean well (or not), but they arrogantly assume that 100+ years of medical practice developed by some really smart and talented people can be replaced by a few fill-in forms, and that the subject matter of medicine ( the incredibly complex human body ) can be reduced to a few simple algorithms. It's like expecting to find the complete schematic of an Intel processor on a postit note. But not all infosystems are like that - the Veteran Administration's "VistA" software is an example of a fairly successful evolving system constructed on open source principles, a collaboration between doctors and coders. While there is a closed source fake derivative called "Open Vista", the real open effort is "World VistA", which is being developed mostly overseas (with a few coders in the US). VistA is written in the "M" language, and VistA needs to be re-written in more commonly used languages. VistA needs small clinic capabilities. It needs better HIPAA compliance. It needs better patient communication. But it is a great start. Somebody is going to figure out how to exchange coding effort on World VistA for doctor services. In economic downturns, doctors struggle for money, too. Perhaps there are some open-source projects out there that demonstrate a way to structure these exchanges, so that both doctors and coders can help each other outside of institutions and without a lot of money shuffling. No, such exchanges won't pay for a pacemaker, but they might lead to less need for pacemakers. And if we can design and build open source graphics cards, why not pacemakers, someday? Most importantly, the entire medical process can be refocused on teaching individuals to maintain their own health, make their own informed decisions regards procedures, etc. There is a huge opportunity for open source software here, working in collaboration with individual doctors and scientists (and educators and marketers and exercise trainers and ... ) to build the software systems that we can use to reprogram our mental systems and escape the cycle of fear and helplessness that train us to damage ourselves. That damage is only partially fixable by expensive medical procedures - it is better to avoid it. And guess what? Developing these systems will make us excellently prepared for great vocations in the future. More importantly, it will help free all people from dependence on employer/government provided medical insurance, and from most of the diseases that we fear, the fear which drives us to that dependence. Competent and expensive medical care will still be needed in some situations, but open source software can help us make those situations a lot rarer. Saving your life, saving the world, and maybe getting rich. Not a bad way to spend your unemployed time. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From znmeb at cesmail.net Wed Nov 26 11:00:47 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (znmeb at cesmail.net) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:00:47 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] Open source and medical care (was Downturns ... ) In-Reply-To: <20081126181636.GA14359@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> <492D1D0D.5050901@cesmail.net> <20081126181636.GA14359@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20081126140047.anqgtnzq80skwgoo-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting Keith Lofstrom : [snip] > > Saving your life, saving the world, and maybe getting rich. Not > a bad way to spend your unemployed time. Well ... I can come up with a whole list of cynical reasons why this can't possibly work, so it must be a fantastic idea! :) But seriously, the high costs of poor quality in medical IT haven't escaped the pundits on the subject, and in the presence of a sane global macro-economic environment, fixing them would have been on the short list of projects for the Obama-Clinton administration. To start the ball rolling, perhaps you could post this on your blog ... or if you don't have a blog, I can post it on mine (http://borasky-research.posterous.com/) From keithl at kl-ic.com Wed Nov 26 12:33:38 2008 From: keithl at kl-ic.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:33:38 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Open source and medical care (was Downturns ... ) In-Reply-To: <20081126140047.anqgtnzq80skwgoo-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> <492D1D0D.5050901@cesmail.net> <20081126181636.GA14359@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081126140047.anqgtnzq80skwgoo-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20081126203338.GA14765@gate.kl-ic.com> > Quoting Keith Lofstrom : > >Saving your life, saving the world, and maybe getting rich. Not > >a bad way to spend your unemployed time. On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 02:00:47PM -0500, znmeb at cesmail.net wrote: > Well ... I can come up with a whole list of cynical reasons why this > can't possibly work, so it must be a fantastic idea! :) But seriously, > the high costs of poor quality in medical IT haven't escaped the > pundits on the subject, and in the presence of a sane global > macro-economic environment, fixing them would have been on the short > list of projects for the Obama-Clinton administration. I wasn't aware that those two were either doctors or programmers. Seriously, I propose actions that creative individuals can perform by themselves, starting right now, without pundits or federal funding or giant corporations. That is the whole idea of individual empowerment - you don't need an OK from the boss. Power is not something granted to you - it is all around you, and you /seize/ it. Grab enough to share, and you can multiply the power you have. Taking care of health isn't macro - it is as personal, direct, and immediate as eating an apple instead of a cookie or bag of potato chips. There is only a 10% chance of rain tomorrow (Thanksgiving). Take a walk rather than a second helping of mashed potatoes. If you notice that this makes you feel good, blog about that. I am involved in open source software because it is the best means available this decade for empowering individuals. I am a mediocre programmer, but combined with the talents of thousands of others, even my feeble contributions are amplified into something world- changing. Individuals are either the subject or the object of their sentences. I prefer to live on the healthy side of the verb. Keith -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993 KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon" Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Wed Nov 26 13:34:45 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:34:45 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... In-Reply-To: References: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> <20081126014435.iek8r8b8f4ckk8wo@xerxes.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20081126133445.2ccbm3os0ow8cw48@xerxes.robinson-west.com> [lbrigman-cc at lbrigman-desktop linux]$ yum list "libglade2*" Loading "fastestmirror" plugin Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * epel: mirror.its.uidaho.edu * rpmforge: apt.sw.be * supplementary: area51 * base: mirrors.tummy.com * updates: mirrors.cat.pdx.edu * addons: mirror.dhsrv.com * extras: mirrors.cat.pdx.edu Installed Packages libglade2.x86_64 2.6.0-2 installed libglade2.i386 2.6.0-2 installed Available Packages libglade2-devel.x86_64 2.6.0-2 base libglade2-devel.i386 2.6.0-2 base [lbrigman-cc at lbrigman-desktop linux]$ _______________________________________________ PLUG mailing list PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug [michael at eagle ~]$ rpm -qa | grep glade libglade2-devel-2.6.0-2 pygtk2-libglade-2.10.1-12.el5 glade2-2.12.1-6.el5 libglade2-2.6.0-2 [michael at eagle ~]$ yum search glade Loading "fastestmirror" plugin Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * rpmforge: ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de * base: yum.singlehop.com * updates: mirror.trouble-free.net * centosplus: mirrors.cat.pdx.edu * addons: ftp.usf.edu * extras: mirror.trouble-free.net glade2.i386 : A GTK+ GUI builder. libglademm24.i386 : C++ wrapper for libglade libglade2.i386 : The libglade library for loading user interfaces. glade2.i386 : A GTK+ GUI builder. intltool.i386 : Utility for internationalizing various kinds of data files intltool.i386 : Utility for internationalizing various kinds of data files. libglade2-devel.i386 : The files needed for libglade application development. libglade2-devel.i386 : The files needed for libglade application development. libglademm24-devel.i386 : Header files, libraries and development documentation for libglademm24. perl-Gtk2-GladeXML.i386 : Perl module to create user interfaces directly from Glade XML files libglade-java.i386 : Java bindings for libglade pygtk2-libglade.i386 : A wrapper for the libglade library for use with PyGTK libglade2.i386 : The libglade library for loading user interfaces. libglade-java-devel.i386 : Compressed Java source files for libglade-java. aeskulap.i386 : Medial image viewer for DICOM images perl-Gtk2-GladeXML.i386 : Create user interfaces directly from Glade XML files libglademm24.i386 : C++ wrapper for libglade pygtk2-libglade.i386 : A wrapper for the libglade library for use with PyGTK libglademm24-devel.i386 : Header files, libraries and development documentation for libglademm24. [michael at eagle ~]$ As you can see, it isn't in the devel package that I have installed. checking for libglade-config... /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial ./configure: line 12226: /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial: No such file or directory ./configure: line 12227: /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial: No such file or directory ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From michael at jamhome.us Wed Nov 26 13:51:12 2008 From: michael at jamhome.us (Michael) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:51:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] scp weird problem of the day In-Reply-To: References: <25743.170.135.241.46.1227720691.squirrel@mail.jamhome.us> Message-ID: <25464.170.135.241.46.1227736272.squirrel@mail.jamhome.us> chris (fool) mccraw wrote: > i believe it is failing to find scp on the remote host. ssh/scp > (sometimes, at least) do some tricks with calling themselves on the > remote side after sshd accepts the connection. And Chris is today's winner in the puzzle mongering. -- Michael Rasmussen http://www.jamhome.us/ Be Appropriate && Follow Your Curiosity From gently at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 13:56:56 2008 From: gently at gmail.com (chris (fool) mccraw) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:56:56 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... In-Reply-To: <20081126133445.2ccbm3os0ow8cw48@xerxes.robinson-west.com> References: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> <20081126014435.iek8r8b8f4ckk8wo@xerxes.robinson-west.com> <20081126133445.2ccbm3os0ow8cw48@xerxes.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 13:34, someone wrote: > checking for libglade-config... > /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial > ./configure: line 12226: > /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial: No such file > or > directory > ./configure: line 12227: > /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial: No such file > or > directory I'm not convinced this isn't an error in the configure script itself--it looks to be trying to run your $PATH for some reason (and did the first time you wrote in, too). Does a fresh virgin download of the script exhibit the same errors? From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Wed Nov 26 14:17:38 2008 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:17:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PLUG] Open source and medical care (was Downturns ... ) In-Reply-To: <20081126203338.GA14765@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20081125031420.GA2885@gate.kl-ic.com> <492D1D0D.5050901@cesmail.net> <20081126181636.GA14359@gate.kl-ic.com> <20081126140047.anqgtnzq80skwgoo-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> <20081126203338.GA14765@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I am a mediocre programmer, ... Keith, There are many ways of contributing to the open source industry. Some of us do so by actively helping users of F/OSS applications who write to mail lists for help. That takes the load off the application developers. Of course, if the questions involve the application on some flavor of Microsoft ... . Rich -- Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Integrity Credibility Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. | Innovation Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863 From linux-yug at xprt.net Wed Nov 26 21:51:36 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:51:36 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available Message-ID: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at xx.yy.zz.aa It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON very different Static IPs' ??? TIA Linux-yug From drew.wymore at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 00:13:43 2008 From: drew.wymore at gmail.com (drew wymore) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:13:43 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available In-Reply-To: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> References: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM, linux-yug wrote: > Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at xx.yy.zz.aa > > It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? > > Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON very > different Static IPs' ??? > > TIA > > Linux-yug > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > DNS servers or web servers? When you set up DNS to do round robin to load balance. Otherwise you'll need to update DNS to point at another server if it's for web services. From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 27 00:39:25 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:39:25 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available In-Reply-To: References: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1227775165.2308.28.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 00:13 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM, linux-yug wrote: > > > Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at xx.yy.zz.aa > > > > It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? > > > > Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON very > > different Static IPs' ??? > > > > TIA > > > > Linux-yug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > > DNS servers or web servers? When you set up DNS to do round robin to load > balance. Otherwise you'll need to update DNS to point at another server if > it's for web services. > _______________________________________________ I didn't make that clear did I???? I want to have a second web server standing by in the event the primary web server goes down.. Like now... My primary web server is down.. Loss of power....And power won't be back for another two days.. But, I have perfectly good, rsynced web server at an alternate location with another IP... How do I get that to come on line.. Now that the primary is down? Thanks linux-yug.. From drew.wymore at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 02:04:08 2008 From: drew.wymore at gmail.com (drew wymore) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 02:04:08 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available In-Reply-To: <1227775165.2308.28.camel@localhost> References: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> <1227775165.2308.28.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:39 AM, linux-yug wrote: > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 00:13 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM, linux-yug wrote: > > > > > Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at xx.yy.zz.aa > > > > > > It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? > > > > > > Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON very > > > different Static IPs' ??? > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > Linux-yug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PLUG mailing list > > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > > > > > > > > DNS servers or web servers? When you set up DNS to do round robin to > load > > balance. Otherwise you'll need to update DNS to point at another server > if > > it's for web services. > > _______________________________________________ > > > I didn't make that clear did I???? > > I want to have a second web server standing by in the event the primary > web server goes down.. Like now... My primary web server is down.. Loss > of power....And power won't be back for another two days.. > But, I have perfectly good, rsynced web server at an alternate location > with another IP... > > How do I get that to come on line.. Now that the primary is down? > > Thanks > > linux-yug.. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > Update your primary and or secondary name servers (assuming primary is on the dead box) to point to the web server that is still alive. From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 27 02:30:59 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 02:30:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available In-Reply-To: References: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> <1227775165.2308.28.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1227781859.2308.33.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 02:04 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:39 AM, linux-yug wrote: > > > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 00:13 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM, linux-yug wrote: > > > > > > > Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at xx.yy.zz.aa > > > > > > > > It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? > > > > > > > > Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON very > > > > different Static IPs' ??? > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > Linux-yug > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > DNS servers or web servers? When you set up DNS to do round robin to > > load > > > balance. Otherwise you'll need to update DNS to point at another server > > if > > > it's for web services. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > I didn't make that clear did I???? > > > > I want to have a second web server standing by in the event the primary > > web server goes down.. Like now... My primary web server is down.. Loss > > of power....And power won't be back for another two days.. > > But, I have perfectly good, rsynced web server at an alternate location > > with another IP... > > > > How do I get that to come on line.. Now that the primary is down? > > > > Thanks > > > > linux-yug.. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > > > > Update your primary and or secondary name servers (assuming primary is on > the dead box) to point to the web server that is still alive. > _______________________________________________ Ok.. I was thinking that was the obvious answer.. I just recently got a second IP.. Thanks Linux-yug From drew.wymore at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 03:03:41 2008 From: drew.wymore at gmail.com (drew wymore) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:03:41 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available In-Reply-To: <1227781859.2308.33.camel@localhost> References: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> <1227775165.2308.28.camel@localhost> <1227781859.2308.33.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 2:30 AM, linux-yug wrote: > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 02:04 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:39 AM, linux-yug wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 00:13 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM, linux-yug > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at xx.yy.zz.aa > > > > > > > > > > It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? > > > > > > > > > > Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON very > > > > > different Static IPs' ??? > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Linux-yug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DNS servers or web servers? When you set up DNS to do round robin to > > > load > > > > balance. Otherwise you'll need to update DNS to point at another > server > > > if > > > > it's for web services. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > I didn't make that clear did I???? > > > > > > I want to have a second web server standing by in the event the primary > > > web server goes down.. Like now... My primary web server is down.. > Loss > > > of power....And power won't be back for another two days.. > > > But, I have perfectly good, rsynced web server at an alternate > location > > > with another IP... > > > > > > How do I get that to come on line.. Now that the primary is down? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > linux-yug.. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PLUG mailing list > > > > > > > > > Update your primary and or secondary name servers (assuming primary is on > > the dead box) to point to the web server that is still alive. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ok.. > > I was thinking that was the obvious answer.. > > I just recently got a second IP.. > > Thanks > > Linux-yug > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > In the future you could automate this with a script and some simple search and replace fu. I can help with that if you're interested. Drew- From david.fleck at mchsi.com Thu Nov 27 08:38:13 2008 From: david.fleck at mchsi.com (David Fleck) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:38:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: [PLUG] Compiling loki_setupdb on CentOS 5... In-Reply-To: References: <20081124231622.2mzaelpdcscs4so0@web.robinson-west.com> <20081126014435.iek8r8b8f4ckk8wo@xerxes.robinson-west.com> <20081126133445.2ccbm3os0ow8cw48@xerxes.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Nov 2008, chris (fool) mccraw wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 13:34, someone wrote: > > checking for libglade-config... > > /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial > > ./configure: line 12226: > > /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial: No such file > > or > > directory > > ./configure: line 12227: > > /usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial:/home/michael/bin:/home/michael/FashionCentsDeluxeTrial: No such file > > or > > directory > > I'm not convinced this isn't an error in the configure script > itself--it looks to be trying to run your $PATH for some reason (and > did the first time you wrote in, too). Does a fresh virgin download > of the script exhibit the same errors? Agreed. What libglade2-devel probably installed on your system was something like: [dcf at grond ~]$ rpm -ql libglade2-devel-2.6.2-20 [...output snipped...] /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libglade-2.0.pc which is the file that has the pkg-config information in it. Your configure script appears to be using your $PATH variable to search for the .pc file, which is wrong. You will probably have to delve into the configure script to try to find out why it is using that variable. I've run into this problem with configure scripts before; those scripts were apparently generated on systems where the running user's $PATH did happen to contain the pkg-config directory. On the whole, I've found that configure and pkg-config are just about as much trouble as the processes they are intended to replace, but that's a rant for another time. You might want to do a 'man pkg-config' for more information about the whole scheme. -- David Fleck david.fleck at mchsi.com From linux-yug at xprt.net Thu Nov 27 10:17:59 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:17:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available In-Reply-To: <1227781859.2308.33.camel@localhost> References: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> <1227775165.2308.28.camel@localhost> <1227781859.2308.33.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1227809879.2308.50.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 02:30 -0800, linux-yug wrote: > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 02:04 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:39 AM, linux-yug wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 00:13 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM, linux-yug wrote: > > > > > > > > > Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at xx.yy.zz.aa > > > > > > > > > > It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? > > > > > > > > > > Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON very > > > > > different Static IPs' ??? > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Linux-yug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DNS servers or web servers? When you set up DNS to do round robin to > > > load > > > > balance. Otherwise you'll need to update DNS to point at another server > > > if > > > > it's for web services. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > I didn't make that clear did I???? > > > > > > I want to have a second web server standing by in the event the primary > > > web server goes down.. Like now... My primary web server is down.. Loss > > > of power....And power won't be back for another two days.. > > > But, I have perfectly good, rsynced web server at an alternate location > > > with another IP... > > > > > > How do I get that to come on line.. Now that the primary is down? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > linux-yug.. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PLUG mailing list > > > > > > > > > Update your primary and or secondary name servers (assuming primary is on > > the dead box) to point to the web server that is still alive. > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ok.. > > I was thinking that was the obvious answer.. > > I just recently got a second IP.. > > Thanks > > Linux-yug > > _______________________________________________ Wait... How does it know to go to ns2??? Right now I have ns1 xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa ns2 xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa If I change to ns1 xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa ns2 bbb.ccc.eee.fff How does it know to use ns2 cause ns1 is down??? IT checks??? The dns server actually check to see if ns1 is up .. and if not checks ns2???? Thanks linux-yug From plug at the-wes.com Thu Nov 27 16:04:32 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:04:32 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] DNS And site available In-Reply-To: <1227809879.2308.50.camel@localhost> References: <1227765096.2308.15.camel@localhost> <1227775165.2308.28.camel@localhost> <1227781859.2308.33.camel@localhost> <1227809879.2308.50.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:17 AM, linux-yug wrote: > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 02:30 -0800, linux-yug wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 02:04 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 12:39 AM, linux-yug > wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, 2008-11-27 at 00:13 -0800, drew wymore wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:51 PM, linux-yug > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Can I set my DNS up so if my Primary server is down at > xx.yy.zz.aa > > > > > > > > > > > > It automatically goes to site b.. pp.qq.rr.aa ???? > > > > > > > > > > > > Where server A is in Flordia and Server B is in P-Town.??? ON > very > > > > > > different Static IPs' ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > > > Linux-yug > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DNS servers or web servers? When you set up DNS to do round robin > to > > > > load > > > > > balance. Otherwise you'll need to update DNS to point at another > server > > > > if > > > > > it's for web services. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't make that clear did I???? > > > > > > > > I want to have a second web server standing by in the event the > primary > > > > web server goes down.. Like now... My primary web server is down.. > Loss > > > > of power....And power won't be back for another two days.. > > > > But, I have perfectly good, rsynced web server at an alternate > location > > > > with another IP... > > > > > > > > How do I get that to come on line.. Now that the primary is down? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > linux-yug.. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > PLUG mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > > Update your primary and or secondary name servers (assuming primary is > on > > > the dead box) to point to the web server that is still alive. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Ok.. > > > > I was thinking that was the obvious answer.. > > > > I just recently got a second IP.. > > > > Thanks > > > > Linux-yug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wait... > > How does it know to go to ns2??? > > Right now I have > > ns1 xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa > ns2 xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa > > If I change to > > ns1 xxx.yyy.zzz.aaa > ns2 bbb.ccc.eee.fff > > > How does it know to use ns2 cause ns1 is down??? > > IT checks??? > > The dns server actually check to see if ns1 is up .. > and if not checks ns2???? > > Thanks > > linux-yug > Each person that browses to your site does an nslookup for your domain, which eventually reaches one of your name servers (ns1 or ns2). If the first one it tries doesn't respond, it tries the next one. Only problem is, there is no way to guarantee that everyone will try ns1 first. It all depends on the resolver, and in most cases we have no control over it, or even know what software is being used. That being said, I would guess around 80% of the time they go to ns1 first. However, if you have no reason not to have your site up in both places at once, then using ns1 to point to one and ns2 to point to the other is just fine. This just gets a little messy when you do things like dynamic content.. you have to keep databases synchronized and such. -wes From plug at the-wes.com Thu Nov 27 16:13:47 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:13:47 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] logging dns requests Message-ID: Is there a way to get bind to log the results of its queries? I found this: http://www.zytrax.com/books/dns/ch7/logging.html and I got it to log just about everything, except the actual answer to the query. Even with logging everything on debug level 100. If no one here knows offhand, I'll go digging through the source. If there really is no way to do it, I'll hack up something with tcpdump or tcpflows. Any suggestions? thanks, -wes From znmeb at cesmail.net Thu Nov 27 17:00:55 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:00:55 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] openSUSE 11.1 release party?? Message-ID: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> Yeah, I know, everybody's busy with the holidays ... but there is no openSUSE 11.1 release party scheduled for December 18th here in Oregon. Am I going to be alone? :) -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com/ "A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -- Alfr?d R?nyi via Paul Erd?s From znmeb at cesmail.net Thu Nov 27 17:03:13 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:03:13 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] openSUSE 11.1 release party?? In-Reply-To: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> References: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> Message-ID: <492F4351.3060208@cesmail.net> M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > Yeah, I know, everybody's busy with the holidays ... but there is no > openSUSE 11.1 release party scheduled for December 18th here in Oregon. > Am I going to be alone? :) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug P.S.: Release Candidate 1 was just posted. The US mirrors don't seem to have it yet, but I got it from http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/distribution/11.1-RC1/iso/openSUSE-11.1-RC1-GNOME-LiveCD-i686.iso with no problems ... MD5 and SHA1 sums are there too. -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com/ "A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -- Alfr?d R?nyi via Paul Erd?s From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Thu Nov 27 17:41:50 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:41:50 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Secret maryo chnoricles CentOS 5... Message-ID: <20081127174150.a3xbhz99uogg4sco@web.robinson-west.com> Has anyone gotten openSDL upgraded so that Secret Maryo Chronicles 1.6 will work on CentOS 5.2? There is a complaint when I compile and install it that it needs openSDL 1.4 or greater and that the system only has 1.3. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From johnxj at comcast.net Thu Nov 27 18:51:42 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:51:42 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] openSUSE 11.1 release party?? In-Reply-To: <492F4351.3060208@cesmail.net> References: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> <492F4351.3060208@cesmail.net> Message-ID: <20081127185142.04549db3.johnxj@comcast.net> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:03:13 -0800 "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" dijo: > P.S.: Release Candidate 1 was just posted. The US mirrors don't seem to > have it yet, but I got it from > > http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/distribution/11.1-RC1/iso/openSUSE-11.1-RC1-GNOME-LiveCD-i686.iso > > with no problems ... MD5 and SHA1 sums are there too. It looks really nice. When will there be final versions available by torrent? From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Thu Nov 27 19:00:45 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:00:45 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] eclipse Message-ID: <20081127190045.emq5gcbfkk0swkc4@web.robinson-west.com> I'm taking Karla Fant's CS202 this term, no I am not a massachist ;-) I'm having difficulty setting up eclipse. I'm on a CentOS 5.2 box. I've noticed that it is available through yum, but when I try yum install eclipse I get a request to install a TON of stuff. I'm not developing java server pages, just plain java programs. I don't want gcc java, but the yum route seems to grab that. Okay, I had the brilliant idea of heading over to eclipse.org. Oops, which eclipse do I download? I chose classic which comes up as ganymede. I assume that installation is simply a matter of untarring the download. Two problems are noticeable already, I don't have an eclipse icon ( okay this is minor ). I don't have the welcome page with tutorials, etcetera ( this is a bit more bothersome ). Well, once I get this straightened out there's the problem of coming up with a realistic interpretation of "write a program that converts C++ code to java code..." Never mind that I'm supposed to be a novice Java programmer and that I haven't touched Java in I don't know how long. Pass or fail, I'll be glad when this term is over. Michael C. Robinson ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From creswick at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 19:40:46 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:40:46 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] eclipse In-Reply-To: <20081127190045.emq5gcbfkk0swkc4@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081127190045.emq5gcbfkk0swkc4@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 7:00 PM, someone wrote: > > Okay, I had the brilliant idea of heading over to eclipse.org. > Oops, which eclipse do I download? I chose classic which comes > up as ganymede. I assume that installation is simply a matter > of untarring the download. Ganymede is, afaik, just a name for the 3.4 release of Eclipse -- the different downloads are just different collections of various plugins (OSGi bundles). The Classic version is a good choice for what you're doing. The install is just a matter of untarring -- I put it in ~/myapps/eclipse (so ~/myapps/eclipse/eclipse starts the app.) You will want your user to have write access to the eclipse directory, so don't put it in a system-wide location unless you really want to dig into the multi-user configurations. > Two problems are noticeable already, > I don't have an eclipse icon ( okay this is minor ). I don't have Since CentOS doesn't know about it, you'll have to set up any menu entries / etc. on your own. > the welcome page with tutorials, etcetera > ( this is a bit more bothersome ). I'm not sure what you mean here -- you may want to ensure that you have a clean workspace (usually ~/workspace) and also make sure that you aren't using some version of eclipse that may have been installed by CentOS. (`which eclipse` works well). > Well, once I get this straightened out there's the problem of coming > up with a realistic interpretation of "write a program that converts > C++ code to java code..." Heh, good luck with that... I seriously hope there are some additional restrictions. C++ syntax are semantics are absurdly complex (it's not even context free!). --Rogan > Never mind that I'm supposed to be a > novice Java programmer and that I haven't touched Java in I don't > know how long. > > Pass or fail, I'll be glad when this term is over. > > Michael C. Robinson > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Thu Nov 27 19:51:37 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:51:37 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] 64-bit OS in VirtualBox Message-ID: <20081127195137.939c0f52.johnxj@comcast.net> I just discovered that Intrepid updated my VirtualBox to version 2.0.4. The new version allows 64-bit guest OSs including Vista and Linux with kernels 2.4 - 2.6. I haven't tried any 64-bit OSs yet, though. From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Thu Nov 27 20:26:13 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:26:13 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] eclipse In-Reply-To: References: <20081127190045.emq5gcbfkk0swkc4@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20081127202613.3peasjlqxw0o4c8c@web.robinson-west.com> > Heh, good luck with that... I seriously hope there are some additional > restrictions. C++ syntax are semantics are absurdly complex (it's not > even context free!). > > --Rogan Well, I went with the yum install and whatever it wanted, and I added java support. Now then, the actual assignment... Limit yourself to: loops, functions, conditionals, basic data types, and basic I/O. Pick 5 syntax areas and output the corresponding java code. Make sure the solution is object oriented. No friendly or public fields. No friendly methods. Limited use of static functions. Use an inheritance hierarchy using "extends" Make client classes for your application Create at least one abstract base class. Implement at least one constructor with arguments. Okay, this probably isn't enough, but that's Karla for you. I shouldn't have talked myself into taking this class. I think expecting us to use Java at it's full potential when we aren't supposed to know it already is ridiculous. -- Michael C. Robinson ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Thu Nov 27 20:53:29 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:53:29 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] eclipse and vmware Message-ID: <20081127205329.38f0x6j85c0gwksc@web.robinson-west.com> vmware-config.pl wants to know where the plugins directory is for eclipse. I am having a hard time figuring this one out. I assume it is the plugins directory that is under .eclipse in my home directory but eclipse is installed globally via yum. HELP!!!! I suppose I can say no to eclipse virtual debugger, I don't know how to use this feature anyways. Michael C. Robinson ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Thu Nov 27 20:58:52 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:58:52 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] eclipse In-Reply-To: <20081127202613.3peasjlqxw0o4c8c@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081127190045.emq5gcbfkk0swkc4@web.robinson-west.com> <20081127202613.3peasjlqxw0o4c8c@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, someone wrote: > Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:26:13 -0800 > From: someone > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: Re: [PLUG] eclipse > > > Well, I went with the yum install and whatever it wanted, and I added > java support. Now then, the actual assignment... > > -- Michael C. Robinson I would NOT install eclipse with any package system. Installing eclipse as root is not a great idea. Instead, install it as a normal user in a home directory. Believe me, this will save on aspirin. If you already installed eclipse with yum, I'd clean it out entirely, and then start fresh with the ganymede tarball. Also, I'd delete any ~/workspace directory that might have already been created. That's probably why you didn't get your tutorials screen - you already had a workspace with that page closed. Do you know which version of java you are supposed to use? It's OK to install that with yum. I regularly run java 1.4.2 on an x86_64 box without problems, even though it's a 32-bit java. Just throwing that in here so you'll know not to worry about that aspect. Carlos Konstanski From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Thu Nov 27 21:00:03 2008 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:00:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PLUG] eclipse and vmware In-Reply-To: <20081127205329.38f0x6j85c0gwksc@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081127205329.38f0x6j85c0gwksc@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Nov 2008, someone wrote: > Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:53:29 -0800 > From: someone > Reply-To: "General Linux/UNIX discussion and help; civil and on-topic" > > To: plug at lists.pdxlinux.org > Subject: [PLUG] eclipse and vmware > > vmware-config.pl wants to know where the plugins directory is > for eclipse. I am having a hard time figuring this one out. > I assume it is the plugins directory that is under .eclipse > in my home directory but eclipse is installed globally via > yum. HELP!!!! I suppose I can say no to eclipse virtual > debugger, I don't know how to use this feature anyways. > > Michael C. Robinson Another reason to clean out the yum-installed eclipse. Get it out of there! Carlos Konstanski From creswick at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 21:06:59 2008 From: creswick at gmail.com (Rogan Creswick) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:06:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] eclipse In-Reply-To: References: <20081127190045.emq5gcbfkk0swkc4@web.robinson-west.com> <20081127202613.3peasjlqxw0o4c8c@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Carlos Konstanski wrote: > > Do you know which version of java you are supposed to use? It's OK to > install that with yum. I regularly run java 1.4.2 on an x86_64 box > without problems, even though it's a 32-bit java. Just throwing that > in here so you'll know not to worry about that aspect. > Just to add my $0.02 about java versions... GCJ (gcc's java) is *not* the same as Sun's java. The java community in general will not help you with GCJ issues, and they are legion. --Rogan From znmeb at cesmail.net Thu Nov 27 23:00:30 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (znmeb at cesmail.net) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 02:00:30 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] openSUSE 11.1 release party?? In-Reply-To: <20081127185142.04549db3.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> <492F4351.3060208@cesmail.net> <20081127185142.04549db3.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081128020030.4arddcplw0cco8ck-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting John Jason Jordan : > On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:03:13 -0800 > "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" dijo: > >> P.S.: Release Candidate 1 was just posted. The US mirrors don't seem to >> have it yet, but I got it from >> >> http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/distribution/11.1-RC1/iso/openSUSE-11.1-RC1-GNOME-LiveCD-i686.iso >> >> with no problems ... MD5 and SHA1 sums are there too. > > It looks really nice. When will there be final versions available by torrent? December 18 is the official release date. I've been running 11.1 on my laptop with only minor glitches since beta 4. After my failed attempt to make a Fedora 10 virtual machine do what I wanted it to do with Compiz, I built a Debian Lenny virtual machine. Lenny is still running 2.6.26, and openSUSE 11.1 is 2.6.27, so I think I'm staying with openSUSE on the laptop. I didn't try the torrents at all -- when Beta 5 came out, the torrents weren't giving me the kind of bandwidth I could get from the OSU OSL mirror down in Corvallis. But I'll probably fire one up now just to be a seeder. :) From znmeb at cesmail.net Thu Nov 27 23:39:46 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (znmeb at cesmail.net) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 02:39:46 -0500 Subject: [PLUG] openSUSE 11.1 release party?? In-Reply-To: <20081128020030.4arddcplw0cco8ck-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> <492F4351.3060208@cesmail.net> <20081127185142.04549db3.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081128020030.4arddcplw0cco8ck-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20081128023946.b0jsgjy4sw8k04ws-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Quoting znmeb at cesmail.net: > I didn't try the torrents at all -- when Beta 5 came out, the torrents > weren't giving me the kind of bandwidth I could get from the OSU OSL > mirror down in Corvallis. But I'll probably fire one up now just to be > a seeder. :) Well ... "bittorrent" bad -- Vuze good. :) I started the downloads using "Bittorrent" and it was getting puny transfer rates and projecting days to completion. So I installed Vuze (formerly azureus). Took off like a scalded duck -- I'm getting 10 mbits/second download now. > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From johnxj at comcast.net Fri Nov 28 08:29:20 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:29:20 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] openSUSE 11.1 release party?? In-Reply-To: <20081128023946.b0jsgjy4sw8k04ws-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> References: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> <492F4351.3060208@cesmail.net> <20081127185142.04549db3.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081128020030.4arddcplw0cco8ck-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> <20081128023946.b0jsgjy4sw8k04ws-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> Message-ID: <20081128082920.c2be9845.johnxj@comcast.net> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 02:39:46 -0500 znmeb at cesmail.net dijo: > Quoting znmeb at cesmail.net: > > > I didn't try the torrents at all -- when Beta 5 came out, the torrents > > weren't giving me the kind of bandwidth I could get from the OSU OSL > > mirror down in Corvallis. But I'll probably fire one up now just to be > > a seeder. :) > > Well ... "bittorrent" bad -- Vuze good. :) I started the downloads > using "Bittorrent" and it was getting puny transfer rates and > projecting days to completion. So I installed Vuze (formerly azureus). > Took off like a scalded duck -- I'm getting 10 mbits/second download > now. I was having painfully slow downloads with Ktorrent the other day, but it was a new version for KDE 4.1 that came with the upgrade to Intrepid. When I launched it all it knew was the list of torrents that it had downloaded/seeded previously - all other settings were at the default. Eventually I discovered that it was set to allow only ten connections per torrent. I raised that to 500, and a short while later I went from two or three seeders to over a hundred. Download was still kind of slow, but acceptable - it took only a day to finish the Fedora DVDs. Unfortunately, that many connections killed my bandwidth for other things. In the future I will use a Ktorrent plugin that allows scheduling. I can set it to run only at night. I also noticed a pause button on the new Ktorrent, so maybe I'll just use that. After the downloads completed and my share ratio was over 2.00 ('cause I like to do the right thing) I closed down Ktorrent. The instant I stopped all the torrent activity my bandwidth returned to normal. Vuze sounds interesting. A long time ago I tried Azureus but I couldn't get it to run without crashing every few minutes. Eventually I gave up on it. I'm happy with Ktorrent, but perhaps I can give Vuze a try. On the other hand, I question that Bittorrent gives lousy results and Vuze gives great results on the same torrent. If the same people are seeding at the same rate and your net connection is the same, it has to be the settings in the client, not the client itself, right? From znmeb at cesmail.net Fri Nov 28 10:59:46 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 10:59:46 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] openSUSE 11.1 release party?? In-Reply-To: <20081128082920.c2be9845.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <492F42C7.2080505@cesmail.net> <492F4351.3060208@cesmail.net> <20081127185142.04549db3.johnxj@comcast.net> <20081128020030.4arddcplw0cco8ck-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> <20081128023946.b0jsgjy4sw8k04ws-mazro@webmail.spamcop.net> <20081128082920.c2be9845.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <49303FA2.7070109@cesmail.net> John Jason Jordan wrote: > Vuze sounds interesting. A long time ago I tried Azureus but I couldn't > get it to run without crashing every few minutes. Eventually I gave up > on it. I'm happy with Ktorrent, but perhaps I can give Vuze a try. On > the other hand, I question that Bittorrent gives lousy results and Vuze > gives great results on the same torrent. If the same people are seeding > at the same rate and your net connection is the same, it has to be the > settings in the client, not the client itself, right? The problem was that I couldn't *find* any settings in "Bittorrent"! Azureus, on the other hand, has thousands of them. :) Maybe something in between, like KTorrent, is the answer. -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com/ "A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -- Alfr?d R?nyi via Paul Erd?s From scratchcomputing at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 12:31:55 2008 From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:31:55 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] remote support tool for firewalled clients Message-ID: <200811281231.55495.scratchcomputing@gmail.com> Hi all, I'm looking for something which would be similar to an ssh server, but would like it to be dead-simple for the user to setup on windows or linux without root privileges behind a firewall. I'm guessing that it could simply send commands and outputs over an SSL encrypted socket. Me: download the link from this e-mail and double-click it Mom: ok, it says "password" and "server" Me: q94j8x2 and remote.example.com Mom: ok. Me: yay, I'm in. Or something like that. That is, the momputer is firewalled, and one is still Win98 while the other is a linux box (which was configured to ssh out, but that's a long story.) I've found the UltraVNC SC utility, which looks like it might be worth trying. Any other suggestions? Thanks, Eric -- Issues of control, repair, improvement, cost, or just plain understandability all come down strongly in favor of open source solutions to complex problems of any sort. --Robert G. Brown --------------------------------------------------- http://scratchcomputing.com --------------------------------------------------- From plug at the-wes.com Fri Nov 28 12:56:05 2008 From: plug at the-wes.com (wes) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:56:05 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] remote support tool for firewalled clients In-Reply-To: <200811281231.55495.scratchcomputing@gmail.com> References: <200811281231.55495.scratchcomputing@gmail.com> Message-ID: ultravnc is pretty much the universal standard for what you're trying to do. If both sides are behind a firewall, look into setting up a repeater on a machine that doesn't have that problem. If you specifically want something command-line based, you can use putty with all the tunneling options saved for the user on their desktop. then create a shortcut pointing to putt.exe -load [session-name] and it all pops up automagically. The disadvantage here is that someone has to do the initial setup, since all the settings are stored in the registry. I don't much like the hack someone put out to store them in a file. It just doesn't work well enough for me. But it does exist, if you wanted to go that route. This all assumes you don't have access to the firewall. If you did, you could configure it to forward port 22 to the linux box, then use ssh port forwarding to connect to the machines inside from there. -wes On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Eric Wilhelm wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking for something which would be similar to an ssh server, but > would like it to be dead-simple for the user to setup on windows or > linux without root privileges behind a firewall. I'm guessing that it > could simply send commands and outputs over an SSL encrypted socket. > > Me: download the link from this e-mail and double-click it > Mom: ok, it says "password" and "server" > Me: q94j8x2 and remote.example.com > Mom: ok. > Me: yay, I'm in. > > Or something like that. That is, the momputer is firewalled, and one is > still Win98 while the other is a linux box (which was configured to ssh > out, but that's a long story.) > > I've found the UltraVNC SC utility, which looks like it might be worth > trying. Any other suggestions? > > Thanks, > Eric > -- > Issues of control, repair, improvement, cost, or just plain > understandability all come down strongly in favor of open source > solutions to complex problems of any sort. > --Robert G. Brown > --------------------------------------------------- > http://scratchcomputing.com > --------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Sat Nov 29 03:08:10 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 03:08:10 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Recovery mess... Message-ID: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> Well, Fedora Core 3 isn't supported anymore and I don't think it is possible to grab all the updates for it. I tried to upgrade glibc and ended up hosing it. Yikes! Some quick thinking and I've temporarily got the machine back up. I installed Fedora Core 3 again on the backup partition minimal installation and wholesale copied /lib and /usr/lib. I'm debating on how to upgrade this machine and I probably should because it is in a sorry state. There are so many customizations though. What is the best way to migrate logs and email? I'm thinking of going to Fedora 9/10 or CentOS 5. I have network root servers running off of this box, so I have a lot of stuff to replace when I upgrade. Concerning updates, they are a real nightmare considering that Linux is so stable in general that I may go for years between major upgrades. Has anyone created their own local yum repository seeded from all the repositories that are typically used? Dependencies become problematic when you do upgrades. I had an upgraded glibc and couldn't get flash installed. Turns out, I needed the upgraded glibc and a few other upgrades I don't have. Keeping older Linux distributions makes sense considering that Linux in general has been getting more memory and resource intensive over time. For how much longer will a Pentium III be adequate for Linux? Are the days of the 486 mail server past now? There should be some focus on tailoring future Linux distributions to be only as fancy and resource intensive as the computer they are installed on can handle. Should Linux need more powerful hardware from one year to the next? Gnome and KDE seem pretty mature, how about cutting their resource use in half without significant feature loss? Just because today's computers have more memory and processing power, there is no need to waste it. I need to figure out how to migrate this major server to a supported Linux distribution that is more current. I've been dreading this. Michael C. Robinson ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From drew.wymore at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 07:22:02 2008 From: drew.wymore at gmail.com (drew wymore) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:22:02 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Recovery mess... In-Reply-To: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 3:08 AM, someone wrote: > Well, Fedora Core 3 isn't supported anymore and I don't think it is > possible > to grab all the updates for it. I tried to upgrade glibc and ended up > hosing it. Yikes! Some quick thinking and I've temporarily got the > machine back up. I installed Fedora Core 3 again on the backup > partition minimal installation and wholesale copied /lib and /usr/lib. > > I'm debating on how to upgrade this machine and I probably should because > it is in a sorry state. There are so many customizations though. What > is the best way to migrate logs and email? I'm thinking of going to > Fedora 9/10 or CentOS 5. I have network root servers running off of > this box, so I have a lot of stuff to replace when I upgrade. > > Concerning updates, they are a real nightmare considering that Linux is so > stable in general that I may go for years between major upgrades. Has > anyone > created their own local yum repository seeded from all the repositories > that > are typically used? Dependencies become problematic when you do upgrades. > I had an upgraded glibc and couldn't get flash installed. Turns out, I > needed > the upgraded glibc and a few other upgrades I don't have. > > Keeping older Linux distributions makes sense considering that Linux > in general has been getting more memory and resource intensive over > time. For how much longer will a Pentium III be adequate for Linux? > Are the days of the 486 mail > server past now? There should be some focus on tailoring future Linux > distributions to be only as fancy and resource intensive as the computer > they > are installed on can handle. Should Linux need more powerful hardware > from one > year to the next? Gnome and KDE seem pretty mature, how about cutting > their > resource use in half without significant feature loss? Just because > today's computers have more memory and processing power, there is no > need to waste it. > > I need to figure out how to migrate this major server to a supported Linux > distribution that is more current. I've been dreading this. > > Michael C. Robinson > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- tar or rsync for the files you need to keep. I've used tar a few times to back up an entire qmail install and it worked without issue, just remember to use the p switch to preserve permissions on what you're backing up. I don't use yum/apt etc since I use Slackware (Rich and I are sinners right?) I build everything from source that doesn't come with the stoack install or if I do any customization and then create a script to do the download/build foo and keep a package handy in a subversion repo for future upgrades or what have you. Cheers, Drew- From znmeb at cesmail.net Sat Nov 29 09:31:31 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:31:31 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Recovery mess... In-Reply-To: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <49317C73.6040704@cesmail.net> someone wrote: > Well, Fedora Core 3 isn't supported anymore and I don't think it is possible > to grab all the updates for it. I tried to upgrade glibc and ended up > hosing it. Yikes! Some quick thinking and I've temporarily got the > machine back up. I installed Fedora Core 3 again on the backup > partition minimal installation and wholesale copied /lib and /usr/lib. > > I'm debating on how to upgrade this machine and I probably should because > it is in a sorry state. There are so many customizations though. What > is the best way to migrate logs and email? I'm thinking of going to > Fedora 9/10 or CentOS 5. I have network root servers running off of > this box, so I have a lot of stuff to replace when I upgrade. > > Concerning updates, they are a real nightmare considering that Linux is so > stable in general that I may go for years between major upgrades. Has anyone > created their own local yum repository seeded from all the repositories that > are typically used? Dependencies become problematic when you do upgrades. > I had an upgraded glibc and couldn't get flash installed. Turns out, I needed > the upgraded glibc and a few other upgrades I don't have. > > Keeping older Linux distributions makes sense considering that Linux > in general has been getting more memory and resource intensive over > time. For how much longer will a Pentium III be adequate for Linux? > Are the days of the 486 mail > server past now? There should be some focus on tailoring future Linux > distributions to be only as fancy and resource intensive as the computer they > are installed on can handle. Should Linux need more powerful hardware > from one > year to the next? Gnome and KDE seem pretty mature, how about cutting their > resource use in half without significant feature loss? Just because > today's computers have more memory and processing power, there is no > need to waste it. > > I need to figure out how to migrate this major server to a supported Linux > distribution that is more current. I've been dreading this. > > Michael C. Robinson Well ... where to begin?? :) 1. What's your budget? 2. What's the tradeoff between buying a whole new machine, installing something stable like CentOS or Scientific Linux 5.x on it and migrating the applications versus your time attempting to rescue your current setup again and again and again? 3. How long is this hardware going to live in the physical sense? I just installed openSUSE 11.1 RC1 on my ancient (Compaq Presario 2110US) laptop and I noted with some joy that most of it is *i586*, not i386! Frankly, I wish it had been i686 -- I don't see why the Linux community thinks it should support machines that won't even run Windows ME! The LiveCDs are i686, though, which is a good thing. As far as desktops are concerned, I think Gnome has become a lot leaner and more modular in recent years. I haven't touched KDE in a long time, so I can't speak for sure about it. XFCE 4.4 is lighter than Gnome without giving up a lot of functionality, and XFCE 4.2 was even lighter if you can still get it. I personally run WindowMaker on my 4 GB desktop and Gnome on my 512 MB laptop, but that's mostly because Gentoo testing has a bizarre mix of Gnome 2.22 and 2.24 pieces that I haven't been willing to put the time into troubleshooting. :) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky ruby-perspectives.blogspot.com/ "A mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems." -- Alfr?d R?nyi via Paul Erd?s From rsteff at comcast.net Sat Nov 29 09:34:59 2008 From: rsteff at comcast.net (Richard C. Steffens) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:34:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Standard for Contacting Web Sites Message-ID: <49317D43.9010407@comcast.net> Over the years I've seen occasional mention on this list of e-mail addresses that are standard "requirements" for web sites to monitor. Where does one find a list of those e-mail names and other things a "real" web site should be doing? This week I registered a domain, dicksteffens.com, and am building some web pages for it. (It only has a very brief "under construction" page for now.) Now that I'm putting up a more serious site than the ones I've done for my Comcast account I figure I should at least make the attempt do abide by the standards. My thanks to this list for the breadth of subjects covered that taught me that such standards exist. -- Regards, Dick Steffens From larry.brigman at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 09:32:09 2008 From: larry.brigman at gmail.com (Larry Brigman) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:32:09 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Recovery mess... In-Reply-To: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 3:08 AM, someone wrote: .... > > Has anyone created their own local yum repository seeded from all the repositories that > are typically used? > You have a few choices. I know this does not apply for all Distros but rpm based one it will. You have two choices. 1) Grab the RPMs you need to keep from someplace like rpmfind and create you own repository. 2) Use a package like mock or mach and build your own package. The nice thing about these tools is that you get to control the environment (at least somewhat) from a config file. Use these packages and stick them in a repository. Best bet is to create a repository from your install CD/DVD as a base and then add packages to the repository to upgrade individual pieces. I do this on RHEL5/CentOS5 now except I have my custom packages in a separate repository. From danielmyoung at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 09:37:08 2008 From: danielmyoung at gmail.com (Dan Young) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:37:08 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Standard for Contacting Web Sites In-Reply-To: <49317D43.9010407@comcast.net> References: <49317D43.9010407@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2e42bd9b0811290937w1cff526dra73f33947bc4ab55@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Richard C. Steffens wrote: > Over the years I've seen occasional mention on this list of e-mail > addresses that are standard "requirements" for web sites to monitor. > Where does one find a list of those e-mail names and other things a > "real" web site should be doing? http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2142.html -- Dan Young From tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org Sat Nov 29 09:39:49 2008 From: tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org (Tim) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 09:39:49 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Standard for Contacting Web Sites In-Reply-To: <49317D43.9010407@comcast.net> References: <49317D43.9010407@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20081129173948.GA2482@sentinelchicken.org> Hi Dick, > This week I registered a domain, dicksteffens.com, and am building some > web pages for it. (It only has a very brief "under construction" page > for now.) Now that I'm putting up a more serious site than the ones I've > done for my Comcast account I figure I should at least make the attempt > do abide by the standards. My thanks to this list for the breadth of > subjects covered that taught me that such standards exist. See: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2142.txt There may be newer RFCs with updates to this list, but this should get you started. For the most part, if you're running a mail server and a web server, having "postmaster", "webmaster", "info", and "abuse" are probably sufficient. Note that these addresses will probably receive quite a bit of spam, so be prepared. HTH, tim From tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org Sat Nov 29 10:19:52 2008 From: tim-pdxlug at sentinelchicken.org (Tim) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 10:19:52 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Recovery mess... In-Reply-To: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081129030810.wo8ig7n6u6soosc4@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <20081129181952.GB2482@sentinelchicken.org> > Well, Fedora Core 3 isn't supported anymore and I don't think it is possible > to grab all the updates for it. I tried to upgrade glibc and ended up > hosing it. Yikes! Some quick thinking and I've temporarily got the > machine back up. I installed Fedora Core 3 again on the backup > partition minimal installation and wholesale copied /lib and /usr/lib. > ... I don't mean to get all religious, but perhaps your issue is that you're not using the right distribution for the job? Debian has always been dedicated to releasing very stable versions. This also means it releases very infrequently. If you set up a box on a new stable release, you can go 3+ years without upgrading and still get updates. This is in contrast to Fedora's release schedule which obsoletes a release after what, about 18 months? Of course this very long release cycle has always irked a lot of people, especially those who install on desktops and are too scared to run testing or unstable. That's one of the main reasons Ubuntu came along. They just track Debian unstable, add a bit of special sauce for desktops, and release on a regular basis. They also periodically release long-term support versions which you should look into. Remember, the original reason for the Fedora project was to: A. Keep the old non-paying users of RedHat from getting really pissed off when it went for-money-only. B. Give RedHat a group of lab rats to test stuff on before it goes into RHEL. I'm sure things have changed with Fedora over the last few years, but it wasn't really designed to do what you're trying to do with it. > Keeping older Linux distributions makes sense considering that Linux > in general has been getting more memory and resource intensive over > time. For how much longer will a Pentium III be adequate for Linux? > Are the days of the 486 mail > server past now? There should be some focus on tailoring future Linux > distributions to be only as fancy and resource intensive as the computer they > are installed on can handle. Should Linux need more powerful hardware > from one > year to the next? Gnome and KDE seem pretty mature, how about cutting their > resource use in half without significant feature loss? Just because > today's computers have more memory and processing power, there is no > need to waste it. You should be perfectly fine on a P3 or other processors of that vintage. A 486 is pushing it, but you could pull it off. The key is, *you shouldn't be installing X on a server!*. I know quite a few people are saying "what???". But I really mean it. There's no reason for X on a server unless you're forced to install some lame third party application that can only be configured via an X program. In that case, just don't run X except when that's needed. DEFINITELY don't install KDE or Gnome, since these are rediculously resource intensive. You really can run X without them; just fine a lightweight window manager like blackbox or it's many derivatives. So without X, you can run really old hardware for a long time with a decently configured box. For one, you can start with a decent lightweight mail server like qmail which hasn't had a major update in 10 years, yet still runs fine out of the box with a handful of patches on at least a dozen UNIX platforms. (See netqmail for an easy way to manage these patches.) If you can manage compile your services against dietlibc or uClibc, you can save lots of memory that recent versions of glibc hogs. Compile your kernel yourself with only the options you need and you'll save a meg or two of memory. HTH, tim From rsteff at comcast.net Sat Nov 29 17:59:59 2008 From: rsteff at comcast.net (Richard C. Steffens) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:59:59 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Web Site Standards Message-ID: <4931F39F.70903@comcast.net> (My reply to you bounced.) Rich Shepard wrote: > While you're starting from scratch, I urge you to use the latest > xhtml and > css versions to build your site. That is my plan. I've been practicing with _More Eric Meyer on CSS_ on some pages at home. I'm getting used to the way CSS works vs. what I used to do. I've also been working with a committee on a web site for my church. One of the members is a graphic artist who comes up with interesting layouts. My first challenge was to try to figure out a way to have different background colors at different levels. Her design floats the part with information out in the middle of a grayish background. The background of the part with information is white, but there are boxes of different sizes. I discovered that I had to include all of those inside a container with a height property set larger than the total needed in order to have its background white and not parts white and the unused part gray! > Makes it much easier to maintain and having > the w3c compliance logos on the index page tells those in the know > that you > know what you're doing. Good point. I'd forgotten about the w3c logo. Now that you mention it, I recall that there is some way to point a compliance agent at the site to find out what it thinks of it. I'll have to go to the w3c site and poke around a bit for it. > Also, you can search for css templates that folks make available and > use > one that you like. Modification is easy, too, but this saves a tremendous > amount of learning and coding time. That's what I did for our site: > found a > couple of templates I really liked and combined the desired features from > each. I'll give that a try. At this point I'm still in the very formative stages. I have a notion of some of what wants to go on the site, but not all of it, yet. When I collect more stuff that "really has to be there" I'll start thinking about how to present it. Checking out some templates is a good idea. Thanks! -- Regards, Dick Steffens From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 30 14:01:29 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (someone) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:01:29 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] OT ReactOS and GNU... Message-ID: <20081130140129.pr5zh4jw0o00gocc@web.robinson-west.com> It seems there is extreme prejudice in the ReactOS community regarding GNU's C++ compiler, anyone know why? I suggested that object oriented programming might be appropriate and that temporary fixes might be worthwhile only to be shot down and told that gcc c++ is a "hell of a mess." Well, does gcc c++ 4 deserve that reputation? I will say that I haven't experienced any trouble with it. Michael C. Robinson ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From znmeb at cesmail.net Sun Nov 30 14:37:52 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:37:52 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] OT ReactOS and GNU... In-Reply-To: <20081130140129.pr5zh4jw0o00gocc@web.robinson-west.com> References: <20081130140129.pr5zh4jw0o00gocc@web.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <493315C0.1070701@cesmail.net> someone wrote: > It seems there is extreme prejudice in the ReactOS community regarding > GNU's C++ compiler, anyone know why? I suggested that object oriented > programming might be appropriate and that temporary fixes might be > worthwhile only to be shot down and told that gcc c++ is a > "hell of a mess." Well, does gcc c++ 4 deserve that reputation? > I will say that I haven't experienced any trouble with it. I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with the GCC implementation of C++ so much as there are things wrong with the C++ language itself. GCC is damn near perfect, especially when you take into account the number of languages it translates, the quality of executables it produces and the huge layer of tools built around it. There are compilers that are better for some purposes -- the Intel compilers and libraries do a *slightly* better job at optimizing number-crunching code to Intel processors, for example. But on the whole, I'd say that the Gnu Compiler Collection is one of the finest pieces of software engineering in existence today. From linux-yug at xprt.net Sun Nov 30 18:19:29 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:19:29 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] HP log problem Message-ID: <1228097969.6726.6.camel@localhost> HI How do I stop this in my logs Nov 30 18:15:13 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe Nov 30 18:15:13 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; will retry in 30 seconds... Nov 30 18:15:43 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe Nov 30 18:15:43 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; will retry in 30 seconds... Nov 30 18:16:13 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe Nov 30 18:16:13 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; will retry in 30 seconds.. I think I used to have an hp printer.. I looked in Printers.. Not there... Any Ideas.. Thanks Linux-yug From johnxj at comcast.net Sun Nov 30 18:53:47 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:53:47 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] HP log problem In-Reply-To: <1228097969.6726.6.camel@localhost> References: <1228097969.6726.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081130185347.43541e7e.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:19:29 -0800 linux-yug dijo: > How do I stop this in my logs > > Nov 30 18:15:13 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event > hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe > Nov 30 18:15:13 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; > will retry in 30 seconds... > Nov 30 18:15:43 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event > hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe > Nov 30 18:15:43 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; > will retry in 30 seconds... > Nov 30 18:16:13 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event > hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe > Nov 30 18:16:13 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; > will retry in 30 seconds.. > > I think I used to have an hp printer.. > > I looked in Printers.. Not there... You didn't say what distro you are using. On my Ubuntu computers there is a GUI - Applications > Accessories > Manage Print Jobs. Look in there (or equivalent for your flavor of Linux) and see if there is a print job hanging in there. From linux-yug at xprt.net Sun Nov 30 19:01:22 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:01:22 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] HP log problem In-Reply-To: <20081130185347.43541e7e.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <1228097969.6726.6.camel@localhost> <20081130185347.43541e7e.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1228100482.6726.10.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 18:53 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:19:29 -0800 > linux-yug dijo: > > > How do I stop this in my logs > > > > Nov 30 18:15:13 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event > > hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe > > Nov 30 18:15:13 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; > > will retry in 30 seconds... > > Nov 30 18:15:43 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event > > hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe > > Nov 30 18:15:43 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; > > will retry in 30 seconds... > > Nov 30 18:16:13 localhost no_device_found: unable to send Event > > hp:/no_device_found 1 5012: Broken pipe > > Nov 30 18:16:13 localhost no_device_found: INFO: open device failed; > > will retry in 30 seconds.. > > > > I think I used to have an hp printer.. > > > > I looked in Printers.. Not there... > > You didn't say what distro you are using. > > On my Ubuntu computers there is a GUI - Applications > Accessories > > Manage Print Jobs. Look in there (or equivalent for your flavor of > Linux) and see if there is a print job hanging in there. > _______________________________________________ I am running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS And I checked printers. NO HP... And I don't the "Manage Print Jobs" Thanks for the reply linux-yug... From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 30 19:48:16 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (robinson-west user) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:48:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... Message-ID: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> The problem with Fedora is that you should use the updates and another problem is the fact that they go away so quickly. How can I create a yum repository on my own network for Fedora 10? Essentially, I want to download the DVD and all the updates and put them on a local server. Another related question, how do I install Fedora Core 10 if all I have is a CD drive? I don't want to go buy a DVD drive just to install it. From johnxj at comcast.net Sun Nov 30 19:53:00 2008 From: johnxj at comcast.net (John Jason Jordan) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:53:00 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] HP log problem In-Reply-To: <1228100482.6726.10.camel@localhost> References: <1228097969.6726.6.camel@localhost> <20081130185347.43541e7e.johnxj@comcast.net> <1228100482.6726.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20081130195300.1d7c1979.johnxj@comcast.net> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:01:22 -0800 linux-yug dijo: > > > I think I used to have an hp printer.. > > > > > > I looked in Printers.. Not there... > > > > You didn't say what distro you are using. > > > > On my Ubuntu computers there is a GUI - Applications > Accessories > > > Manage Print Jobs. Look in there (or equivalent for your flavor of > > Linux) and see if there is a print job hanging in there. > I am running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS > > And I checked printers. NO HP... > > And I don't the "Manage Print Jobs" OK, the Manage Print Jobs GUI applet was added after 6.06. If I recall correctly (it's been a long time since Dapper) you find the print jobs from somewhere on the printers dialog box. I still think you have an old print job that is hung up. Removing a printer does not remove the print jobs that are already in the queue. So they just sit there and keep trying to access the printer - a printer that the print job will never find because it has been deleted. From m0gely at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 20:00:08 2008 From: m0gely at gmail.com (m0gely) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:00:08 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Web Site Standards In-Reply-To: <4931F39F.70903@comcast.net> References: <4931F39F.70903@comcast.net> Message-ID: <49336148.8000203@gmail.com> Richard C. Steffens wrote: > there are boxes of different sizes. I discovered that I had to include > all of those inside a container with a height property set larger than > the total needed in order to have its background white and not parts > white and the unused part gray! See tip #7. In short, float the containing div. http://www.yongfook.com/items/view/81/10-dirty-little-web-development-tricks > Good point. I'd forgotten about the w3c logo. And no one will care but you and 1997. Seriously. Making it compliant is one thing. No normal folk care about bumper stickers though. ;) -- - m0gely From plug_1 at robinson-west.com Sun Nov 30 20:02:13 2008 From: plug_1 at robinson-west.com (robinson-west user) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:02:13 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... In-Reply-To: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:48 -0800, robinson-west user wrote: > The problem with Fedora is that you should use the updates and another > problem is the fact that they go away so quickly. How can I create a > yum repository on my own network for Fedora 10? Essentially, I want > to download the DVD and all the updates and put them on a local server. > > Another related question, how do I install Fedora Core 10 if all I have > is a CD drive? I don't want to go buy a DVD drive just to install it. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug A related question, can I build a Fedora 10 yum repository without using a Fedora 10 installation? I'm thinking I want to grab all the updates and possibly wait to install it till it is EOL'ed. From linux-yug at xprt.net Sun Nov 30 20:04:42 2008 From: linux-yug at xprt.net (linux-yug) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:04:42 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] HP log problem In-Reply-To: <20081130195300.1d7c1979.johnxj@comcast.net> References: <1228097969.6726.6.camel@localhost> <20081130185347.43541e7e.johnxj@comcast.net> <1228100482.6726.10.camel@localhost> <20081130195300.1d7c1979.johnxj@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1228104282.6726.12.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:53 -0800, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:01:22 -0800 > linux-yug dijo: > > > > > I think I used to have an hp printer.. > > > > > > > > I looked in Printers.. Not there... > > > > > > You didn't say what distro you are using. > > > > > > On my Ubuntu computers there is a GUI - Applications > Accessories > > > > Manage Print Jobs. Look in there (or equivalent for your flavor of > > > Linux) and see if there is a print job hanging in there. > > > I am running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS > > > > And I checked printers. NO HP... > > > > And I don't the "Manage Print Jobs" > > OK, the Manage Print Jobs GUI applet was added after 6.06. If I recall > correctly (it's been a long time since Dapper) you find the print jobs > from somewhere on the printers dialog box. > > I still think you have an old print job that is hung up. Removing a > printer does not remove the print jobs that are already in the queue. > So they just sit there and keep trying to access the printer - a > printer that the print job will never find because it has been deleted. That could very well be.... As I remember I didn't have much luck getting that printer to print.... Ok..I will keep searching.. Thanks Linux-yug. From larry.brigman at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 20:42:36 2008 From: larry.brigman at gmail.com (Larry Brigman) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:42:36 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... In-Reply-To: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 7:48 PM, robinson-west user wrote: > The problem with Fedora is that you should use the updates and another > problem is the fact that they go away so quickly. How can I create a > yum repository on my own network for Fedora 10? Essentially, I want > to download the DVD and all the updates and put them on a local server. reposync > > Another related question, how do I install Fedora Core 10 if all I have > is a CD drive? I don't want to go buy a DVD drive just to install it. LiveCD will install a full update-able system just as if you had run a DVD anaconda install. From larry.brigman at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 20:47:16 2008 From: larry.brigman at gmail.com (Larry Brigman) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:47:16 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... In-Reply-To: <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:02 PM, robinson-west user wrote: .... > > A related question, can I build a Fedora 10 yum repository without using > a Fedora 10 installation? I'm thinking I want to grab all the updates > and possibly wait to install it till it is EOL'ed. > Get the URL's and use reposync. Yum repo's can be on any platform that can provide ftp, http (install-only repo nfs). Waiting until EOL to use it could put you well behind the curve of knowing other repo's that you might want to pull resources from for your local repo's. From russj at dimstar.net Sun Nov 30 20:57:11 2008 From: russj at dimstar.net (Russ Johnson) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:57:11 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... In-Reply-To: <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: Why you would want to wait to EOL is beyond me... But Fedora is "marketed" as an 'Unstable development branch for Redhat Enterprise Linux'. That should explain why things change so rapidly, and why it's more difficult to keep up. On servers that I want stability, I use CentOS. It's RHEL, without the proprietary stuff. There are plenty of documents on how to make a local yum repository. I googled for 'local yum repository' and got 286,000 hits. Here are some examples: 1. For Fedora: http://fedoranews.org/alex/tutorial/yum/ 2. For Redhat: http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-7228 3. For CentOS: http://www.howtoforge.com/creating_a_local_yum_repository_centos You can host the repository on any system you choose. It just has to be available to the systems you need it on via some network protocol. e.g. nfs, ftp, scp, etc. As far as installing without a DVD, use a network install, assuming you will have the local yum repo up before the next install. The documents for that are also available in mass quantities. On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:02 PM, robinson-west user < plug_1 at robinson-west.com> wrote: > On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:48 -0800, robinson-west user wrote: > > The problem with Fedora is that you should use the updates and another > > problem is the fact that they go away so quickly. How can I create a > > yum repository on my own network for Fedora 10? Essentially, I want > > to download the DVD and all the updates and put them on a local server. > > > > Another related question, how do I install Fedora Core 10 if all I have > > is a CD drive? I don't want to go buy a DVD drive just to install it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG mailing list > > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > A related question, can I build a Fedora 10 yum repository without using > a Fedora 10 installation? I'm thinking I want to grab all the updates > and possibly wait to install it till it is EOL'ed. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > -- Russell Johnson russj at dimstar.net Dimension 7 Consulting. Windows, Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, OS/X From crquan at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 21:03:23 2008 From: crquan at gmail.com (Cheng Renquan) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:03:23 +0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... In-Reply-To: References: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <91b13c310811302103w617019ecq43e0c15f1ccf29a6@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Russ Johnson wrote: > Why you would want to wait to EOL is beyond me... But Fedora is "marketed" > as an 'Unstable development branch for Redhat Enterprise Linux'. That should > explain why things change so rapidly, and why it's more difficult to keep > up. > > On servers that I want stability, I use CentOS. It's RHEL, without the > proprietary stuff. > > There are plenty of documents on how to make a local yum repository. I > googled for 'local yum repository' and got 286,000 hits. Here are some > examples: > > 1. For Fedora: http://fedoranews.org/alex/tutorial/yum/ > 2. For Redhat: http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-7228 > 3. For CentOS: > http://www.howtoforge.com/creating_a_local_yum_repository_centos Thanks very much. From danielmyoung at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 21:04:05 2008 From: danielmyoung at gmail.com (Dan Young) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:04:05 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... In-Reply-To: <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <2e42bd9b0811302104j52c3a27fpf737d26ba5626a81@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:02 PM, robinson-west user wrote: >> Another related question, how do I install Fedora Core 10 if all I have >> is a CD drive? I don't want to go buy a DVD drive just to install it. http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-10-i386-CDs.torrent http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents//Fedora-10-x86_64-CDs.torrent -- Dan Young From znmeb at cesmail.net Sun Nov 30 22:10:35 2008 From: znmeb at cesmail.net (M. Edward (Ed) Borasky) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:10:35 -0800 Subject: [PLUG] Checking out Fedora 10... In-Reply-To: <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> References: <1228103296.16740.2.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> <1228104133.16740.5.camel@goose.robinson-west.com> Message-ID: <49337FDB.1090400@cesmail.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 robinson-west user wrote: > On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:48 -0800, robinson-west user wrote: >> The problem with Fedora is that you should use the updates and another >> problem is the fact that they go away so quickly. How can I create a >> yum repository on my own network for Fedora 10? Essentially, I want >> to download the DVD and all the updates and put them on a local server. >> >> Another related question, how do I install Fedora Core 10 if all I have >> is a CD drive? I don't want to go buy a DVD drive just to install it. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > A related question, can I build a Fedora 10 yum repository without using > a Fedora 10 installation? I'm thinking I want to grab all the updates > and possibly wait to install it till it is EOL'ed. > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG at lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > If you have Internet connectivity, you don't need a local repository. Every major distro and a lot of other open source projects are mirrored at OSU OSL. Point your browser at http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub and go down the tree till you find something that matches the strings on the right hand side. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkzf9sACgkQU8/OcI56WFshKgCdH7ltpeFHSjcf3eAEB8iil6ph rdIAoI8cgoT9jBo8eMjytbaz2ZXQ75yL =VGkC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----