[PLUG] How we treat the homeless...

Nat Taylor bioborg at gmail.com
Mon Sep 23 04:47:31 UTC 2019


How about PDX Hackerspace as a venue?

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:41 PM Jim Karlock <jjkarlock at gmail.com> wrote:

> At 08:55 PM 9/22/2019, Ben Koenig wrote:
> >Maybe this is just me, but my inbox has a message where someone used this
> >conversation to pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant for no particular
> >reason.
>
> "pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant" for observing that "Trump
> is cleaning up some of the faster than Obama did.  That sounds a lot
> like hyper liberal exxageration to me.
>
>
> >Does anyone know who "Jim Karlock" is?
> Look me up on Google Scholar.
>
> >  I'm wondering if he even uses linux
> YES. Not very proficient, but I use it almost daily.
>
> >because he just fired off a lot of hyper conservative BS in a very short
> >amount of time.
>
> Hyper conservative BS??  Interesting characterization of a counter to
> hyper greenie BS!
>
> Look up the factual accuracy of what I posted and compare it to the
> other guy. Please do not use any greenie web sites that raise money
> be scaring people about the environment as sources. EPA will have the
> data. Look at the data, not the text as that is often political.
>
> BTW - this is a lot off topic, so, having defended myself, lets call it
> quits.
>
> Thanks
> JK
>
>
>
> >On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:06 PM Brian Rohan <brianjrohan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they are
> homeless
> > > because they don't have an IPv6 address.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. <mconnors1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM <plug-request at pdxlinux.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to
> > > > >         plug at pdxlinux.org
> > > > >
> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > >         http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > >         plug-request at pdxlinux.org
> > > > >
> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > >         plug-owner at pdxlinux.org
> > > > >
> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Today's Topics:
> > > > >
> > > > >    1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig)
> > > > >    2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan)
> > > > >    3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann)
> > > > >    4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.)
> > > > >    5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard)
> > > > >    6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock)
> > > > >    7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 1
> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700
> > > > > From: Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com>
> > > > > To: plug at pdxlinux.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking
> > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387ec2 at gmail.com>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote:
> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great
> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav
> services for
> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or
> anything
> > > > > > else than handles caldav...
> > > > >
> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which
> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways
> to get
> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with
> Android,
> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless.
> Tracking
> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that OS,
> so
> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail
> account.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd
> defaults to
> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback
> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented
> at
> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP tracking,
> you
> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you want
> to
> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu
> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla
> links
> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for
> > > tracking
> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to
> > > > > google servers....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 2
> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700
> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan <johnxj at gmx.com>
> > > > > To: plug at pdxlinux.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333 at Devil-Bonobo>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> dijo:
> > > > >
> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple
> > > > > >resolution.
> > > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 3
> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700
> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann <denis.heidtmann at gmail.com>
> > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" <plug at pdxlinux.org>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM
> > > > > Message-ID:
> > > > >         <
> > > > > CAArUT0iWXUpfZf-E4G7WusuZ4vAmPk+pT_pwRgnsAiDxADUKRg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > > > >
> > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even
> though
> > > > there
> > > > > is a business operating in that building.  I once had to let in
> one of
> > > > > their customers.
> > > > > -Denis
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior <
> > > > russell at personaltelco.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've been
> there
> > > > > forever,
> > > > > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not least
> > > > because
> > > > > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a good
> central
> > > > > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we picket
> the
> > > PSU
> > > > > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate whether
> a
> > > room
> > > > > in
> > > > > > a different building might work. I recall we were in Smith for
> quite
> > > a
> > > > > > while before moving to the Engineering building.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:27 PM Vince Winter <
> > > > vince.winter at freegeek.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I can try to convince free geek to host on Sundays during the
> day
> > > > > > 11am-5pm
> > > > > > > area? They maybe open to that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Have you tried reaching out to the campus security to see if
> they
> > > > would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > open to having someone help with door between 645 to 715?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:53 PM Michael Dexter <
> dexter at pdxlinux.org>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you everyone who pointed out a few odd elements about
> the
> > > > last
> > > > > > > > meeting, none of which were the fact that I was not there.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. The room change was temporary. Whew!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. Thanks to the homeless abusing PSU resources, the
> engineering
> > > > > > > > building will be locking its doors at 5:30PM starting next
> month.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is sounds minor but the "answer" is to have someone at
> the
> > > > door
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > can identify PLUG attendees (not necessarily easy) and not
> allow
> > > in
> > > > > > > > anyone who should not enter (also not easy). This door guard
> > > would
> > > > > also
> > > > > > > > ideally hang around for 15 or so minutes to accommodate late
> > > > > arrivals.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I personally do not want PLUG members to be in the campus
> > > security
> > > > > > > > business given that it could incur liability should they
> fail to
> > > > > comply
> > > > > > > > with the school's security policies they are expected to
> enforce.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PLUG has been at PSU for over 20 years and venues of this
> quality
> > > > do
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > come easily.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please share your ideas on how we can work around this new
> > > > > restriction!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please also share your ideas on venues should a solution not
> > > > present
> > > > > > > > itself. The ideal venue, like PSU:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * Is central with good public transportation access
> > > > > > > > * Is free of charge
> > > > > > > > * Is not dependent on a staff attendant unless they are
> > > guaranteed
> > > > to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > there for other reasons
> > > > > > > > * Has good lighting
> > > > > > > > * Has a good projector
> > > > > > > > * Has affordable, safe parking for those who cannot take
> public
> > > > > > > > transportation
> > > > > > > > * Has good WiFI and optional Ethernet Internet access
> > > > > > > > * Has good food options on site or nearby
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Free Geek is a highly-sympathetic venue but does not meet
> all of
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > > criteria.
> > > > > Actually it is a very simple, two tiered, problem:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Cost of housing is ONLY in areas with severe restrictions on
> > > building
> > > > > on unused land. In Oregon & Washington it is Urban Grown
> > > > > Boundaries. They have doubled cost of rents/ housing. Simple
> economics
> > > -
> > > > > they create a shortage of land, which drives up the
> > > > > price. In Portland's low income are, Lents, a parcel recently sold
> for
> > > > ONE
> > > > > MILLION/ acra which is about $125,000 for a 5000 sf empty
> > > > > lot. Portland adds at lease $50,000 to that for permission to
> build.
> > > When
> > > > > you start with almost $200,000 in cost BEFORE building anything,
> > > > > you cannot build affordable houses.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes but also Oregon & Texas are the only 2 states that don't have
> > > > "Inclusionary Housing" laws that require developers to build a
> certain
> > > > number of affordable / low income units. More info here,
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2015/04/after_years_of_trying_inclusio.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2. People who simply cannot afford rent, end up living with
> friends,
> > > > > sharing an apartment, living in a camper or moving to another area.
> > > There
> > > > > are many successful services for this group. They generally do not
> end
> > > up
> > > > > in tests surrounded by needles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, "generally" as far as generalizations go.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Tent people are about 50-80% drug/alcohol addicts, some mentally
> ill
> > > > > that probably should be in institutions, and criminals who no one
> > > > > will rent to.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've heard a variety of life stories and personally know a lot people
> > > from
> > > > all walks of life. We also have housed & employed drug addicts,
> > > alcoholics,
> > > > criminals and sociopaths. One of who resides in the grandest house
> of all
> > > > at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
> > > >
> > > > These aspects of human experience aren't the exclusive domain of the
> > > > homeless.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > You may have noted an increase in people doing absolutely crazy
> things
> > > > > described as a mental health crisis - mostly illegal drug use.
> > > > >
> > > > > View Seattle is Dying on YouTube for one viewpoint on the problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've seen it, wasn't impressed by nor did I agree wit it because it
> > > > doesn't address the root cause of alcohol, drug, tobacco and other
> > > > addictions. Most often addiction is the result of trauma, abuse,
> social
> > > > disconnection in which their basic human needs aren't being met and
> > > mental
> > > > illness such as depression in which people are simply seeking a
> respite
> > > > from their own suffering not unlike many housed people do when they
> drink
> > > > and adult beverage, partake of the herb or otherwise
> entertain/distract
> > > > themselves in the privacy of their own home.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
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> > >
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