[PLUG] How we treat the homeless...

Ben Koenig techkoenig at gmail.com
Mon Sep 23 05:05:54 UTC 2019


Wait, hold on Jim...

Is this you??
https://karlockformetro.blogspot.com/2009/11/we-are-winning.html

Facts? You want to talk about Facts? What about this one here:



On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:57 PM Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com> wrote:

> LOL!
>
> Conservative activist in the Portland area? Dude, there is nothing for you
> to defend. Your attitude is combative, and follows the pattern of russian
> trolling.
>
> But hey, I guess that's why we have a PLUG-Talk list. If you want to make
> everything a "Me VS The Other Guy" battle, go find yourself an appropriate
> forum. Oh wait! Sorry, it appears people have a tendency to kick your ass
> to the curb:
>
> https://blogs.columbian.com/all-politics-is-local/jim-karlock-got-kicked-out-of-a-league-of-women-voters-forum/
>
> I'm reading your text, and seeing a sad little man who starts off topic
> conversations, then hides when confronted.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:40 PM Jim Karlock <jjkarlock at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> At 08:55 PM 9/22/2019, Ben Koenig wrote:
>> >Maybe this is just me, but my inbox has a message where someone used this
>> >conversation to pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant for no particular
>> >reason.
>>
>> "pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant" for observing that "Trump
>> is cleaning up some of the faster than Obama did.  That sounds a lot
>> like hyper liberal exxageration to me.
>>
>>
>> >Does anyone know who "Jim Karlock" is?
>> Look me up on Google Scholar.
>>
>> >  I'm wondering if he even uses linux
>> YES. Not very proficient, but I use it almost daily.
>>
>> >because he just fired off a lot of hyper conservative BS in a very short
>> >amount of time.
>>
>> Hyper conservative BS??  Interesting characterization of a counter to
>> hyper greenie BS!
>>
>> Look up the factual accuracy of what I posted and compare it to the
>> other guy. Please do not use any greenie web sites that raise money
>> be scaring people about the environment as sources. EPA will have the
>> data. Look at the data, not the text as that is often political.
>>
>> BTW - this is a lot off topic, so, having defended myself, lets call it
>> quits.
>>
>> Thanks
>> JK
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:06 PM Brian Rohan <brianjrohan at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they are
>> homeless
>> > > because they don't have an IPv6 address.
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. <mconnors1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM <plug-request at pdxlinux.org> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to
>> > > > >         plug at pdxlinux.org
>> > > > >
>> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > > > >         http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > > > >         plug-request at pdxlinux.org
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > > > >         plug-owner at pdxlinux.org
>> > > > >
>> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>> specific
>> > > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..."
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Today's Topics:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >    1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig)
>> > > > >    2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan)
>> > > > >    3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann)
>> > > > >    4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.)
>> > > > >    5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard)
>> > > > >    6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock)
>> > > > >    7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Message: 1
>> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700
>> > > > > From: Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com>
>> > > > > To: plug at pdxlinux.org
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking
>> > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387ec2 at gmail.com>
>> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote:
>> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great
>> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav
>> services for
>> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or
>> anything
>> > > > > > else than handles caldav...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to which
>> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways
>> to get
>> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with
>> Android,
>> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless.
>> Tracking
>> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that
>> OS, so
>> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail
>> account.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd
>> defaults to
>> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a fallback
>> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is implemented
>> at
>> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP
>> tracking, you
>> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you
>> want to
>> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and Ubuntu
>> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even Mozilla
>> links
>> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for
>> > > tracking
>> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data to
>> > > > > google servers....
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Message: 2
>> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700
>> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan <johnxj at gmx.com>
>> > > > > To: plug at pdxlinux.org
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
>> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333 at Devil-Bonobo>
>> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > > > Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> dijo:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple
>> > > > > >resolution.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > +1
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Message: 3
>> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700
>> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann <denis.heidtmann at gmail.com>
>> > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" <plug at pdxlinux.org>
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM
>> > > > > Message-ID:
>> > > > >         <
>> > > > >
>> CAArUT0iWXUpfZf-E4G7WusuZ4vAmPk+pT_pwRgnsAiDxADUKRg at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> > > > >
>> > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even
>> though
>> > > > there
>> > > > > is a business operating in that building.  I once had to let in
>> one of
>> > > > > their customers.
>> > > > > -Denis
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior <
>> > > > russell at personaltelco.net>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've been
>> there
>> > > > > forever,
>> > > > > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not least
>> > > > because
>> > > > > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a good
>> central
>> > > > > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we picket
>> the
>> > > PSU
>> > > > > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate
>> whether a
>> > > room
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > > a different building might work. I recall we were in Smith for
>> quite
>> > > a
>> > > > > > while before moving to the Engineering building.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:27 PM Vince Winter <
>> > > > vince.winter at freegeek.org>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hey,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I can try to convince free geek to host on Sundays during the
>> day
>> > > > > > 11am-5pm
>> > > > > > > area? They maybe open to that.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Have you tried reaching out to the campus security to see if
>> they
>> > > > would
>> > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > open to having someone help with door between 645 to 715?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:53 PM Michael Dexter <
>> dexter at pdxlinux.org>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Hello all,
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Thank you everyone who pointed out a few odd elements about
>> the
>> > > > last
>> > > > > > > > meeting, none of which were the fact that I was not there.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > 1. The room change was temporary. Whew!
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > 2. Thanks to the homeless abusing PSU resources, the
>> engineering
>> > > > > > > > building will be locking its doors at 5:30PM starting next
>> month.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > This is sounds minor but the "answer" is to have someone at
>> the
>> > > > door
>> > > > > > who
>> > > > > > > > can identify PLUG attendees (not necessarily easy) and not
>> allow
>> > > in
>> > > > > > > > anyone who should not enter (also not easy). This door guard
>> > > would
>> > > > > also
>> > > > > > > > ideally hang around for 15 or so minutes to accommodate late
>> > > > > arrivals.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I personally do not want PLUG members to be in the campus
>> > > security
>> > > > > > > > business given that it could incur liability should they
>> fail to
>> > > > > comply
>> > > > > > > > with the school's security policies they are expected to
>> enforce.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > PLUG has been at PSU for over 20 years and venues of this
>> quality
>> > > > do
>> > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > come easily.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Please share your ideas on how we can work around this new
>> > > > > restriction!
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Please also share your ideas on venues should a solution not
>> > > > present
>> > > > > > > > itself. The ideal venue, like PSU:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > * Is central with good public transportation access
>> > > > > > > > * Is free of charge
>> > > > > > > > * Is not dependent on a staff attendant unless they are
>> > > guaranteed
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > be
>> > > > > > > > there for other reasons
>> > > > > > > > * Has good lighting
>> > > > > > > > * Has a good projector
>> > > > > > > > * Has affordable, safe parking for those who cannot take
>> public
>> > > > > > > > transportation
>> > > > > > > > * Has good WiFI and optional Ethernet Internet access
>> > > > > > > > * Has good food options on site or nearby
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Free Geek is a highly-sympathetic venue but does not meet
>> all of
>> > > > > these
>> > > > > > > > criteria.
>> > > > > Actually it is a very simple, two tiered, problem:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 1. Cost of housing is ONLY in areas with severe restrictions on
>> > > building
>> > > > > on unused land. In Oregon & Washington it is Urban Grown
>> > > > > Boundaries. They have doubled cost of rents/ housing. Simple
>> economics
>> > > -
>> > > > > they create a shortage of land, which drives up the
>> > > > > price. In Portland's low income are, Lents, a parcel recently
>> sold for
>> > > > ONE
>> > > > > MILLION/ acra which is about $125,000 for a 5000 sf empty
>> > > > > lot. Portland adds at lease $50,000 to that for permission to
>> build.
>> > > When
>> > > > > you start with almost $200,000 in cost BEFORE building anything,
>> > > > > you cannot build affordable houses.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Yes but also Oregon & Texas are the only 2 states that don't have
>> > > > "Inclusionary Housing" laws that require developers to build a
>> certain
>> > > > number of affordable / low income units. More info here,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2015/04/after_years_of_trying_inclusio.html
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > 2. People who simply cannot afford rent, end up living with
>> friends,
>> > > > > sharing an apartment, living in a camper or moving to another
>> area.
>> > > There
>> > > > > are many successful services for this group. They generally do
>> not end
>> > > up
>> > > > > in tests surrounded by needles.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yes, "generally" as far as generalizations go.
>> > > >
>> > > > 3. Tent people are about 50-80% drug/alcohol addicts, some mentally
>> ill
>> > > > > that probably should be in institutions, and criminals who no one
>> > > > > will rent to.
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I've heard a variety of life stories and personally know a lot
>> people
>> > > from
>> > > > all walks of life. We also have housed & employed drug addicts,
>> > > alcoholics,
>> > > > criminals and sociopaths. One of who resides in the grandest house
>> of all
>> > > > at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
>> > > >
>> > > > These aspects of human experience aren't the exclusive domain of the
>> > > > homeless.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > You may have noted an increase in people doing absolutely crazy
>> things
>> > > > > described as a mental health crisis - mostly illegal drug use.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > View Seattle is Dying on YouTube for one viewpoint on the problem.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I've seen it, wasn't impressed by nor did I agree wit it because
>> it
>> > > > doesn't address the root cause of alcohol, drug, tobacco and other
>> > > > addictions. Most often addiction is the result of trauma, abuse,
>> social
>> > > > disconnection in which their basic human needs aren't being met and
>> > > mental
>> > > > illness such as depression in which people are simply seeking a
>> respite
>> > > > from their own suffering not unlike many housed people do when they
>> drink
>> > > > and adult beverage, partake of the herb or otherwise
>> entertain/distract
>> > > > themselves in the privacy of their own home.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > PLUG mailing list
>> > > > PLUG at pdxlinux.org
>> > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>> > > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > PLUG at pdxlinux.org
>> > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>> > >
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>



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