[PLUG] How we treat the homeless...

Russell Senior russell at personaltelco.net
Mon Sep 23 05:18:10 UTC 2019


Plug-talk, please.

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 22:15 Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wait, hold on Jim...
>
> Is this you??
> https://karlockformetro.blogspot.com/2009/11/we-are-winning.html
>
> Facts? You want to talk about Facts? What about this one here:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:57 PM Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > LOL!
> >
> > Conservative activist in the Portland area? Dude, there is nothing for
> you
> > to defend. Your attitude is combative, and follows the pattern of russian
> > trolling.
> >
> > But hey, I guess that's why we have a PLUG-Talk list. If you want to make
> > everything a "Me VS The Other Guy" battle, go find yourself an
> appropriate
> > forum. Oh wait! Sorry, it appears people have a tendency to kick your ass
> > to the curb:
> >
> >
> https://blogs.columbian.com/all-politics-is-local/jim-karlock-got-kicked-out-of-a-league-of-women-voters-forum/
> >
> > I'm reading your text, and seeing a sad little man who starts off topic
> > conversations, then hides when confronted.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 9:40 PM Jim Karlock <jjkarlock at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> At 08:55 PM 9/22/2019, Ben Koenig wrote:
> >> >Maybe this is just me, but my inbox has a message where someone used
> this
> >> >conversation to pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant for no
> particular
> >> >reason.
> >>
> >> "pivot into a pro-Trump, anti-Obama rant" for observing that "Trump
> >> is cleaning up some of the faster than Obama did.  That sounds a lot
> >> like hyper liberal exxageration to me.
> >>
> >>
> >> >Does anyone know who "Jim Karlock" is?
> >> Look me up on Google Scholar.
> >>
> >> >  I'm wondering if he even uses linux
> >> YES. Not very proficient, but I use it almost daily.
> >>
> >> >because he just fired off a lot of hyper conservative BS in a very
> short
> >> >amount of time.
> >>
> >> Hyper conservative BS??  Interesting characterization of a counter to
> >> hyper greenie BS!
> >>
> >> Look up the factual accuracy of what I posted and compare it to the
> >> other guy. Please do not use any greenie web sites that raise money
> >> be scaring people about the environment as sources. EPA will have the
> >> data. Look at the data, not the text as that is often political.
> >>
> >> BTW - this is a lot off topic, so, having defended myself, lets call it
> >> quits.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> JK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 7:06 PM Brian Rohan <brianjrohan at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Not sure why the homelessness is a topic on PLUG, unless they are
> >> homeless
> >> > > because they don't have an IPv6 address.
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 6:51 PM Mike C. <mconnors1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:27 PM <plug-request at pdxlinux.org>
> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Send PLUG mailing list submissions to
> >> > > > >         plug at pdxlinux.org
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >> > > > >         http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >> > > > >         plug-request at pdxlinux.org
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >> > > > >         plug-owner at pdxlinux.org
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> >> specific
> >> > > > > than "Re: Contents of PLUG digest..."
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Today's Topics:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >    1. Re: IP tracking (Ben Koenig)
> >> > > > >    2. Re: How we treat the homeless... (John Jason Jordan)
> >> > > > >    3. Re: PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM (Denis Heidtmann)
> >> > > > >    4. Re: How we treat the homeless.. (Mike C.)
> >> > > > >    5. Re: IP tracking (Rich Shepard)
> >> > > > >    6. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Jim Karlock)
> >> > > > >    7. Re: How we treat the homeless... (Michael Barnes)
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Message: 1
> >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:01:29 -0700
> >> > > > > From: Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com>
> >> > > > > To: plug at pdxlinux.org
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] IP tracking
> >> > > > > Message-ID: <91a83375-0762-259a-9a7e-0d4033387ec2 at gmail.com>
> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On 9/22/19 10:41 AM, Thomas Groman wrote:
> >> > > > > > ... When it comes to calendering, NextCloud is great
> >> > > > > > for this. It can provide both a web interface and CalDav
> >> services for
> >> > > > > > integration within Thunderbird, CalCurse-caldav, android, or
> >> anything
> >> > > > > > else than handles caldav...
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > You make some good points, but also demonstrate the level to
> which
> >> > > > > google is embedded in software development. In recommending ways
> >> to get
> >> > > > > away from google's tracking, you mentioned compatibility with
> >> Android,
> >> > > > > which renders all efforts to afford the problem meaningless.
> >> Tracking
> >> > > > > that is baked into the OS affects all apps running within that
> >> OS, so
> >> > > > > you have to stop using android. Also stop mentioning it.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Not that I'm the best example of this, writing from my gmail
> >> account.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Another example of OS-level integration is systemd. systemd
> >> defaults to
> >> > > > > google's nameservers when no others are provided. It's a
> fallback
> >> > > > > mechanism if standard DNS configuration fails, and is
> implemented
> >> at
> >> > > > > compile time. Like you mentioned, it's more than just IP
> >> tracking, you
> >> > > > > need to start rejecting entire chunks of your OS stack if you
> >> want to
> >> > > > > actually get away from google's profile building.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > It's pretty disgusting these days. Distros like Debian and
> Ubuntu
> >> > > > > working behind the scenes to sell out the community. Even
> Mozilla
> >> links
> >> > > > > up with all those API's, making a weak claim that their use for
> >> > > tracking
> >> > > > > is totally different from everyone else's. They still send data
> to
> >> > > > > google servers....
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ------------------------------
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Message: 2
> >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:17:39 -0700
> >> > > > > From: John Jason Jordan <johnxj at gmx.com>
> >> > > > > To: plug at pdxlinux.org
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] How we treat the homeless...
> >> > > > > Message-ID: <20190922131739.1fda6333 at Devil-Bonobo>
> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 10:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
> >> > > > > Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> dijo:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > >This is a continuing, higly complex problem that has no simple
> >> > > > > >resolution.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > +1
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ------------------------------
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Message: 3
> >> > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:06:58 -0700
> >> > > > > From: Denis Heidtmann <denis.heidtmann at gmail.com>
> >> > > > > To: "Portland Linux/Unix Group" <plug at pdxlinux.org>
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [PLUG] PLUG HAS A VENUE PROBLEM
> >> > > > > Message-ID:
> >> > > > >         <
> >> > > > >
> >> CAArUT0iWXUpfZf-E4G7WusuZ4vAmPk+pT_pwRgnsAiDxADUKRg at mail.gmail.com>
> >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > FWIIW, PSU has done the same thing with the doors in SB1, even
> >> though
> >> > > > there
> >> > > > > is a business operating in that building.  I once had to let in
> >> one of
> >> > > > > their customers.
> >> > > > > -Denis
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 7:17 PM Russell Senior <
> >> > > > russell at personaltelco.net>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > I am a fan of Portland State as a venue. Firstly, we've been
> >> there
> >> > > > > forever,
> >> > > > > > b) their mission includes engaging with the community (not
> least
> >> > > > because
> >> > > > > > it's a service to their students); and iii) it's got a good
> >> central
> >> > > > > > location with good transportation options. I suggest we picket
> >> the
> >> > > PSU
> >> > > > > > administration building; second I suggest we investigate
> >> whether a
> >> > > room
> >> > > > > in
> >> > > > > > a different building might work. I recall we were in Smith for
> >> quite
> >> > > a
> >> > > > > > while before moving to the Engineering building.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 4:27 PM Vince Winter <
> >> > > > vince.winter at freegeek.org>
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Hey,
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I can try to convince free geek to host on Sundays during
> the
> >> day
> >> > > > > > 11am-5pm
> >> > > > > > > area? They maybe open to that.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Have you tried reaching out to the campus security to see if
> >> they
> >> > > > would
> >> > > > > > be
> >> > > > > > > open to having someone help with door between 645 to 715?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:53 PM Michael Dexter <
> >> dexter at pdxlinux.org>
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Hello all,
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Thank you everyone who pointed out a few odd elements
> about
> >> the
> >> > > > last
> >> > > > > > > > meeting, none of which were the fact that I was not there.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 1. The room change was temporary. Whew!
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 2. Thanks to the homeless abusing PSU resources, the
> >> engineering
> >> > > > > > > > building will be locking its doors at 5:30PM starting next
> >> month.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > This is sounds minor but the "answer" is to have someone
> at
> >> the
> >> > > > door
> >> > > > > > who
> >> > > > > > > > can identify PLUG attendees (not necessarily easy) and not
> >> allow
> >> > > in
> >> > > > > > > > anyone who should not enter (also not easy). This door
> guard
> >> > > would
> >> > > > > also
> >> > > > > > > > ideally hang around for 15 or so minutes to accommodate
> late
> >> > > > > arrivals.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I personally do not want PLUG members to be in the campus
> >> > > security
> >> > > > > > > > business given that it could incur liability should they
> >> fail to
> >> > > > > comply
> >> > > > > > > > with the school's security policies they are expected to
> >> enforce.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > PLUG has been at PSU for over 20 years and venues of this
> >> quality
> >> > > > do
> >> > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > come easily.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Please share your ideas on how we can work around this new
> >> > > > > restriction!
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Please also share your ideas on venues should a solution
> not
> >> > > > present
> >> > > > > > > > itself. The ideal venue, like PSU:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > * Is central with good public transportation access
> >> > > > > > > > * Is free of charge
> >> > > > > > > > * Is not dependent on a staff attendant unless they are
> >> > > guaranteed
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > be
> >> > > > > > > > there for other reasons
> >> > > > > > > > * Has good lighting
> >> > > > > > > > * Has a good projector
> >> > > > > > > > * Has affordable, safe parking for those who cannot take
> >> public
> >> > > > > > > > transportation
> >> > > > > > > > * Has good WiFI and optional Ethernet Internet access
> >> > > > > > > > * Has good food options on site or nearby
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Free Geek is a highly-sympathetic venue but does not meet
> >> all of
> >> > > > > these
> >> > > > > > > > criteria.
> >> > > > > Actually it is a very simple, two tiered, problem:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > 1. Cost of housing is ONLY in areas with severe restrictions on
> >> > > building
> >> > > > > on unused land. In Oregon & Washington it is Urban Grown
> >> > > > > Boundaries. They have doubled cost of rents/ housing. Simple
> >> economics
> >> > > -
> >> > > > > they create a shortage of land, which drives up the
> >> > > > > price. In Portland's low income are, Lents, a parcel recently
> >> sold for
> >> > > > ONE
> >> > > > > MILLION/ acra which is about $125,000 for a 5000 sf empty
> >> > > > > lot. Portland adds at lease $50,000 to that for permission to
> >> build.
> >> > > When
> >> > > > > you start with almost $200,000 in cost BEFORE building anything,
> >> > > > > you cannot build affordable houses.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yes but also Oregon & Texas are the only 2 states that don't have
> >> > > > "Inclusionary Housing" laws that require developers to build a
> >> certain
> >> > > > number of affordable / low income units. More info here,
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2015/04/after_years_of_trying_inclusio.html
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > 2. People who simply cannot afford rent, end up living with
> >> friends,
> >> > > > > sharing an apartment, living in a camper or moving to another
> >> area.
> >> > > There
> >> > > > > are many successful services for this group. They generally do
> >> not end
> >> > > up
> >> > > > > in tests surrounded by needles.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Yes, "generally" as far as generalizations go.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 3. Tent people are about 50-80% drug/alcohol addicts, some
> mentally
> >> ill
> >> > > > > that probably should be in institutions, and criminals who no
> one
> >> > > > > will rent to.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I've heard a variety of life stories and personally know a lot
> >> people
> >> > > from
> >> > > > all walks of life. We also have housed & employed drug addicts,
> >> > > alcoholics,
> >> > > > criminals and sociopaths. One of who resides in the grandest house
> >> of all
> >> > > > at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > These aspects of human experience aren't the exclusive domain of
> the
> >> > > > homeless.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > You may have noted an increase in people doing absolutely crazy
> >> things
> >> > > > > described as a mental health crisis - mostly illegal drug use.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > View Seattle is Dying on YouTube for one viewpoint on the
> problem.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I've seen it, wasn't impressed by nor did I agree wit it because
> >> it
> >> > > > doesn't address the root cause of alcohol, drug, tobacco and other
> >> > > > addictions. Most often addiction is the result of trauma, abuse,
> >> social
> >> > > > disconnection in which their basic human needs aren't being met
> and
> >> > > mental
> >> > > > illness such as depression in which people are simply seeking a
> >> respite
> >> > > > from their own suffering not unlike many housed people do when
> they
> >> drink
> >> > > > and adult beverage, partake of the herb or otherwise
> >> entertain/distract
> >> > > > themselves in the privacy of their own home.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > PLUG mailing list
> >> > > > PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> >> > > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >> > > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > PLUG mailing list
> >> > > PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> >> > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >> > >
> >> >_______________________________________________
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> >> >PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> >> >http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PLUG mailing list
> >> PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >>
> >
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