[PLUG] Distro Flamewar!

Sat Jun 6 02:19:30 UTC 2020

Your choice of words made it sound sarcastic. I've not heard "Dense" used
in a positive connotation, so referring to yourself in that way can be seen
as a sarcastic insult, like saying someone has a thick skull or just
calling them a retard. Bad choice of words on the internet.

Here is a quote from this list, A direct attack on my character by another
PLUG member:
<quote>
I know I shouldn't dare to challenge the almighty Linux GOD as he will
likely unleash his wrath on me as he's been prone to do with  other PLUG
members in the past and recently with his vitriolic rant of Ubuntu.
</quote>

Another tried to suggest that slackware is not a mainstream distro. False,
Slackware is binary compatible with both centos and debian. Ecluding
systemd, all other dependencies are present and accounted for. In fact many
of these chat apps like Teams and RingCentral are repacked from the RPM or
DEB to be used on Slackware without recompiling.
<quote>
D) nothing against slackware - seriously - get vanilla Ubuntu installed on
one of the spare devices to gain experience with well supported mainstream
distro first. It will calibrate your expectations of what can work and how.
</quote>

If I suggested that you install Slackware as a solution to the problem I'd
probably get a backlash from several people here. But there appears to be a
double standard where ubuntu is held above all other distros. I suppose we
can test that theory.
-Ben

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 4:25 PM Denis Heidtmann <denis.heidtmann at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the explanation, but my comment  was not sarcastic.  I just felt
> out of the loop, as if everybody but me understood what the "discussion"
> was about.  BTW,  I  do not consider John's reference to Rieser was out of
> the blue--he made a genuine attempt to fill in the gaps, gaps which were so
> large that perhaps I was not the only one here feeling out of touch.
>
> I will just say  that your comments come across to a novice like me as
> coming from an angry, impatient man.  May not be, but that is how I read
> them.
>
>
> -Denis
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:03 PM Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On 6/4/20 9:48 PM, Denis Heidtmann wrote:
> > > This convinces me I am dense.
> >
> >
> > Lost the will to discuss the issue when someone pulled a murder from
> > 2006 out of thin air. I don't know what I said to prompt that but I can
> > come up with theories why it resurfaced.
> >
> >
> > Since your sarcasm is so inviting I'll explain my frustration, you asked
> > for it ;)
> >
> > All I want is for people to  stop pushing the idea that slackware is the
> > cause of a given software glitch. It's the only reason I bother offering
> > to help Rich. After a couple years of lurking here I kinda snapped when
> > I saw someone give slackware a try and the floodgates of stupidity
> > opened. It seemed like nobody was interested in the facts and just
> > wanted promote whatever random opinion popped into their head at the
> > given moment. It was actually really bad and I felt a responsibility to
> > set the record straight.
> >
> >
> > It felt like sabotage. A bunch of people who had never used slackware
> > kept offering advice, and then giving that disclaimer that they'd never
> > used it. For someone who was actively trying to learn, this created
> > severe problems in separating fact from fiction. He was clearly unable
> > to decide who's advice was real, and who's was not. That's not his
> > fault, but the fault of the people who actively worked to get in the way.
> >
> >
> > As for Rich's questions, pretty much all of them are the result of
> > either his inexperience or custom configuration (very custom). He gets
> > fancy with his setup and it upsets me to see conversations head in the
> > direction of "well maybe slackware..." when its something like rebooting
> > a computer after 100 days of uptime.
> >
> >
> > Any venerable user knows these questions are not slackware specific. But
> > my concern is more about spreading knowledge to new users. When I leave
> > the PLUG list and go do other things, I run into other linux users who
> > say the dumbest things. Factoids and anecdotes that have nothing to do
> > with what slackware actually is. People tell me about a flaw they heard
> > about and I'm sitting there thinking about how that's literally not
> > possible. The laws of physics kind of get in the way, know what I mean?
> >
> >
> > People who know the truth are complacent, assuming that the facts speak
> > for themselves. But they don't, and newer users are given unrealistic
> > expectations and spread those like wildfire. I don't get the impression
> > that people want to fight the fire because they just sit there watching
> > it burn. This idea of spreading misinformation has become such a
> > standard of life in the US that I start thinking that nobody here even
> > cares about facts or truth. You just shout your opinions like its a damn
> > twitter feed. If I thought anyone here cared about the design of the
> > software and why it functions the way that it does, I would have offered
> > to give a presentation on Slackware basics. It's not like there's some
> > magical difference, we have binary compatibility with both centos and
> > debian...
> >
> >
> > At Free Geek I taught a class called "Linux Playground" where I walked
> > brand new linux users through the basic differences of the various
> > distributions. They would then go and get an ubuntu computer, but they
> > left the class with an understanding of why free geek used Ubuntu, and
> > what kind of options were out there if they chose to try something else.
> > I firmly believe that we all have a moral obligation to promote the
> > truth. This doesn't mean I think you should learn slackware, this means
> > that you should acknowledge where your experience starts, and ends.
> > Don't bother making a slackware specific statement if you have no
> > experience with it.
> >
> >
> > If you check the history of emails you'll not only notice that I've been
> > critical of ubuntu, but that I've also offered pointed advice. This is
> > because many of the issues that float through this mailing list are the
> > same issues I solved at free geek. I literally maintained the book of
> > "known issues and solutions" for several years. There are a lot of
> > recurring problems, with easy solutions.
> >
> >
> > When someone claims that I'm just bashing Ubuntu because I think I'm a
> > "linux GOD", I find it hurtful. I feel excluded when I offer years of
> > experience for free, and it gets tossed to the wind by people who think
> > that it's the responsibility of the user to decide what is and is not
> > correct. They are asking for help because they don't know what the
> > correct path is, so when you throw out lots of information in a short
> > period of time, people get confused.
> >
> >
> > But you tried to do the right thing, and that's clearly all that matters.
> >
> > -Ben
> >
> >
> > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 9:18 PM Ben Koenig <techkoenig at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 6/4/20 9:00 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote:
> > >>> On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
> > >>> Rich Shepard <rshepard at appl-ecosys.com> dijo:
> > >>>
> > >>>> I believe that Ben referred to Resser (sp?). The file system
> developer
> > >>>> who was a bit bonkers. I don't recall the whole story but it was
> > >>>> really big news for a while.
> > >>> It was Reiser. He was arrested for murdering his wife. Thereafter,
> his
> > >>> filesystem fell out of favor.
> > >>
> > >> Not sure where reiserFS factors into anything, that happened in
> 2006...
> > >> why are we talking about it???
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I vented several issues both old and new in that post. This is not a
> > >> topic I want to discuss via email. I've lost faith in the idea that
> > >> people can communicate effectively. text-only email only makes the
> > >> problem worse.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The Linux community is becoming more inclusive by excluding certain
> > >> types of people. It just happened right in front of everyone on this
> > list.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> PLUG mailing list
> > >> PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> > >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PLUG mailing list
> > > PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> > > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> > _______________________________________________
> > PLUG mailing list
> > PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> PLUG mailing list
> PLUG at pdxlinux.org
> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
>