[PLUG-TALK] Re: [PLUG] OT License plates and covers.

[Russ Johnson]

* Jeme A Brelin <jeme at brelin.net> [2003-12-10 23:02]:
> 
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Russ Johnson wrote:
> > * Jeme A Brelin <jeme at brelin.net> [2003-12-10 17:33]:
> > > Well, that's why we don't have train tracks criss-crossing our cities.
> >
> > As was pointed out earlier, we have a LOT of train tracks criss-crossing
> > our cities.
> 
> In relation to the number of automobile "tracks", no... almost none.  It
> would be extremely generous to give it a 50:1 ratio.

If you look at pictures of cities from before the advent of the
automobile, you will see that there were lots of roads then too. Should
we get rid of buggies and horses too? 

> > > We give up our right to free mobility to the train tracks because it's a
> > > small price to pay for the benefits of mass transit.
> >
> > The vast majority of train tracks are NOT for mass transit.
> 
> What kind of massless trains do you think we have in this city?
> 
> As I wrote earlier, I wasn't limiting that mass transit to human
> transportation.

Ah the vagaries of debate via email. I wrote my reply before reading
that message. 

The "common" definition of "mass transit" does not include freight
trains. I am using the definition as it would be applied in the mass
media; TV, Radio and Newspaper. When they refer to mass transit, they
are referring to busses, Max trains and the like. They are not referring
to Burlington Northern, Santa Fe and P&W.

However, as far as that goes, I too feel that trains are immensely
underutilizes in this country. Trucks should be used for local delivery.
The only argument I can fathom for long haul trucks is that it puts more
people to work.

> > > The price of staying out of the way of automobile paths is MUCH higher
> > > and the benefits are very few if you're not exceptionally infirm.
> >
> > I dunno. I've never had a problem staying out of the way of automobiles.
> 
> Well, you're not going out enough.  They're freakin' everywhere.  They're
> given a huge percentage of the public space in almost every region.  And
> in my neighborhood, MOST of that space is used for automobile storage...
> fully subsidized by the public.

Quit using the subsidy argument, as EVERYTHING is subsidized.

Yes, cars are everywhere, and there are times when using mass transit is
a better option. However, I do and SHOULD have a choice as to wether I
own a car or not, and if I qualify to drive it, then I can. Honor my
diversity to choose to own a car. 

> > But then, I know that if that car hits me, I lose. Even if the law is on
> > my side.
> 
> That's why they shouldn't be around people.

That's why people need to follow the rules too. Walking down the center
of Powell is taking ones life in ones own hands.

> > I swear that some folks were just never told that cars are heavier and
> > harder than people, and to not play on train tracks or in streets. Since
> > I moved to Portland, there have been several people killed by Max
> > trains. Very few, if any, of these were the fault of the train.
> 
> Trains don't take fault... they're just metal and plastic after all.
> 
> The responsibility is absolutely on the part of the one wielding the
> deadly weapon.

No, not necessarily. If the operator of a train, car or other large 
moving object is following the rules laid out for said vehicle, and 
some nit-wit walks in front of said vehicle where there is no way 
for the large moving object to avoid said nit-wit, then the operator 
of said large moving object is most definately NOT at fault. 

> > I don't see cars playing football in parks, so why should people play
> > football in the street?
> 
> Uh huh... and how about if we compare the land area of neighborhood parks
> to neighborhood streets?  And what about the budget of the parks
> department versus just the road maintenance division of the transportation
> department?  You'd think that the government exists to serve the
> automobile industry more than the human beings.

I believe maintaining the roads IS serving the humans. As you said, the
car is inanimate. 

-- 
Russ Johnson
Dimension 7/Stargate Online
http://www.dimstar.net

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