[PLUG-TALK] Any lispers out there? Newbie needs booster shot

Renegade Penguin renegadepenguin at comcast.net
Sun Aug 21 12:40:25 PDT 2005

Way to go fanboy.  Pointing out postive things companies say about 
themselves is often circular reasoning, and indicates that despite my 
attempts in the past to think of you as trying to engage in discussion, 
other people's comments that you are a flamer and a troll are spot on.

Microsoft says they're out to protect users' rights WRT DRM but that 
doesn't make them right.

You are an idiot.  You twist my words and then act like you're the 
authority, without any grounds.  I'll respond to others' comments as 
they actually make sense.

Mail from seniorr at aracnet.com >> /dev/null  from now on.


Russell Senior wrote:

>This is an idiotic criticism.  If you leave out a semi-colon in a C
>program it won't compile either.  Lisp editors (like Emacs and others)
>make leaving out a parenthesis just about impossible, and anyway,
>easily corrected.
>One of the primary things Lisp gives you is leverage.  It lets one
>person develop things that take armies of programmers in other
>languages.  There are some engineering tradeoffs for this.  Automatic
>memory management doesn't come for free, nor does its dynamic typing,
>but for many things it is well worth the cost.  The REPL, from a
>development point of view, is a huge win.
>Here's a summary of features from one of the two bigger commercial
>Common Lisp vendors:
>   <http://www.lispworks.com/products/lisp-overview.html>
>   Common Lisp Language Overview
>   Common Lisp has long been the leading language for software
>   research and advanced development projects. Its ability to tackle
>   the biggest problems is unmatched.
>   Common Lisp is rich in data types, supported by a high-level
>   language model and garbage collection. In Common Lisp, all data are
>   represented as objects. There are no out-of-language errors. This
>   model encourages a high-level view of programs and an exploratory
>   programming process that make Lisp programmers among the most
>   productive in the world. Evidence for this is presented in Erann
>   Gat's paper Lisp as an Alternative to Java.
>     <http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf>
>   Common Lisp has grown and evolved over time, acquiring features and
>   supporting paradigms as they've entered the world of computer
>   science. It is now supported by an ANSI standard (ANSI
>   X3.226:1994). This standard includes the Common Lisp Object System
>   (CLOS); features like multimethods and dynamic class redefinition
>   make CLOS among the most advanced object systems in the world.
>   Among the most important features of Common Lisp are:
>       * Machine-independent language model. All operations are
>         performed in terms of program objects, not raw bits.
>       * Iterative design process. Common Lisp supports exploratory
>         programming, making programmers more productive.
>       * Dynamic patching. Common Lisp programs can be updated while
>         they are running. The ability to install field patches
>         without interrupting service is important for many
>         mission-critical applications.
>       * High-level debugging. All debugging is performed within the
>         language model, preventing system crashes and other
>         out-of-language errors.
>       * Common Lisp Object System (CLOS). Common Lisp provides
>         advanced object-oriented programming, including multiple
>         inheritance, multimethods, class redefinition in running
>         programs, and dynamic type creation. No other language
>         provides an object system so rich in features.
>       * First class functions and classes. First class higher-order
>         functions provide control systems that are elegant and
>         powerful.
>       * First class classes let you manipulate the object system in
>         running programs, giving you finer degrees of control.
>       * Extensive data types. Objects, structures, lists, vectors,
>         adjustable arrays, hash-tables, and symbols are just a few of
>         Common Lisp's myriad data types.
>       * Advanced numeric types. The Common Lisp arithmetic package
>         includes unlimited size integers, fractions, complex numbers,
>         and a complete floating point library. Conversion between
>         numeric types occurs automatically.
>       * Complete IO library. Common Lisp includes a portable
>         interface for streams, the file system, and other IO
>         facilities.
>       * Extensive control structures. Complex looping, guard
>         expressions, non-local transfer of control and lexical
>         closures are among the control structures offered by Common
>         Lisp.
>       * Condition system. The Common Lisp condition system is
>         object-based, and supports recovery as well as escape from
>         errors and other exceptional situations.
>       * Consistent syntax. Common Lisp uses a simple consistent
>         syntax that is easy to learn and easy to use from day one.
>       * Macros. A convenient macro system lets Common Lisp
>         programmers create embedded languages, essentially turning
>         their Lisp environment into a domain-specific problem solving
>         tool.
>       * Programs as data. Common Lisp is a fully reflective language,
>         supporting genetic algorithms, evolutionary programming, and
>         other self-referential programming techniques.
>       * Late-bound types. By leaving type declarations to the
>         programmer's discretion, programs can be simpler and
>         prototyping faster. 
>   For more information on Common Lisp, see our Community pages.
>There are some anti-features as well.  The free Common Lisps don't
>support multithreading (there are some free Schemes that do, though).
>Lisp doesn't always play nicely with others, e.g.: it is harder or
>uglier to link in foreign functions from C or Fortran; and I/O can
>sometimes be inefficient (basically a matter of getting raw data into
>and out of Lisp types).
>I have never regretted learning or using Common Lisp.

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