[PLUG-TALK] Bounced emails

[wes]

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Denis Heidtmann
<denis.heidtmann at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:34 PM, wes <plug at the-wes.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Denis Heidtmann <
> denis.heidtmann at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:45 PM, wes <plug at the-wes.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Questions:
> >> >> Why do some servers refuse to comply with 2505?
> >> >
> >> > There's something called address spoofing, where spammers use your
> >> > address
> >> > as the "From:" address in spams they send out. This causes a deluge of
> >> > bounce messages to be sent to you, resulting from emails you never
> sent.
> >> > This practice prevents that backlash.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Why do some providers require compliance, while others do not (gmail,
> >> >> for example)?
> >> >
> >> > Why should there be uniformity? Every mail server admin has the choice
> >> > of
> >> > how their mail server works. Sometimes this freedom causes some things
> >> > to
> >> > not work.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Is it reasonable for dslnorthwest to require compliance?
> >> >
> >> > That is a tough question. I'm sure the staff at DSLNorthWest discussed
> >> > the
> >> > matter and decided it would be preferable to enforce the rules. Their
> >> > reasons are their own; their freedom is our freedom. I'm sure if
> enough
> >> > of
> >> > their customers complained about this, they would change this
> practice.
> >> >
> >> > -wes
> >> >
> >> My understanding of the motivation for rfc 2505 is SPAM reduction. Are
> >> you saying that uniform compliance would not improve the situation?
> >>
> >
> > Correct, it's not something that really helps or hurts the spam
> situatoin.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> With regard to bounces: My sister-in-law (let's say sil at foo.com) sends
> >> a message to me.  dslnorthwest refuses it because her server does not
> >> accept any connections.  So she gets the bounce message.  If a spammer
> >> spoofs her address and the spammer's server also does not accept any
> >> connections, who gets the bounce message?  Does it not come back to
> >> sil at foo.com?  Or does it go into a black hole?
> >>
> >> -Denis
> >
> >
> > Black hole.
> >
> > -wes
> And if the spammer's server does accept connections?  Does this
> disclose the spoof?
>
>
At best, it would disclose it to the spammers. Not really useful. In
reality, the spammers don't spam from their own servers anyway so it really
discloses it to no one.


> So in your opinion those who crafted (proposed, suggested, pick your
> verb) 2505 were either wrong that it would address spam, or they had
> other goals?
>
>
Somewhere in between. I'd call it "idealistic."


> -Denis
>

-wes
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