[PLUG-TALK] The Tragedy of the Commons

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at portlandia-it.com
Thu Nov 2 19:18:40 UTC 2023


The issue with solving overpopulation is as I said what has been
demonstrated to correct it is economics

The problem is economic policy and political policy are intertwined and
economic policy differs from country to country

So no, you cannot view it as a world wide issue.  It is not.  It is a
country by country, society by society, problem and has to be solved country
by country.

What is gradually happening is that societies who have corrected
overpopulation through economics are increasingly getting
Angry and resentful of countries who have not done this.  Which is perfectly
understandable.

This is why so many countries are erecting barriers to what is termed
illegal immigration.  And barriers to full participation in society by the
immigrants who do manage to illegally immigrate.

The countries and societies who cannot fix their economy are just going to
end up with wars and famines killing people off.  Which is inhumane, but it
is important to understand that these societies are composed of adults not
children and it's not our responsibility to treat them like children who are
unable to determine their own futures.  We can be aghast at their choices
but they ARE their choices.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: PLUG-talk <plug-talk-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org> On Behalf Of Ted
Mittelstaedt
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 11:56 AM
To: 'Off-topic and potentially flammable discussion'
<plug-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org>; plug-talk at pdxlinux.org
Subject: Re: [PLUG-TALK] The Tragedy of the Commons

Don't forget the so-called "native americans" were themselves also illegal
immigrants.

They are descended from the people who crossed during the LAST migration
over the Bearing land bridge.

Archeological evidence indicates they came over and went to war with the
humans who had already migrated and were living here and did the same thing
to them the English did thousands of years later.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: PLUG-talk <plug-talk-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org> On Behalf Of Rich
Shepard
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 9:21 AM
To: plug-talk at pdxlinux.org
Subject: Re: [PLUG-TALK] The Tragedy of the Commons

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> So you need to be very careful before throwing stones at overpopulation.
> Those need to be targeted criticisms not general ones based on biology 
> and the inevitability of behavior as a result of biology.

Ted,

Overpopulation is a world-wide issue and has been for decades.

Two points about immigrants:

The English who were illegal immigrants to the northeast and mid-atlantic
areas came for religous freedom (New England), not to make their flavor of
religion dominant. Many were tossed out of colonies for being too extreme.
The ones who settled in what is now Virginia were attracted by the
Spaniard's old claim of gold; they became tobacco farmers.

This country is built on immigrants from all over the world. And, as a
country, we're all much better off for it. I'm second generation Polish and
fourth or fifty generation Ukrainian. When I lived in Beer Sheva, Israel,
there were 107 native languages spoken. We humans have always migrated.

Bet you've not lived in the same city all you life. :-)

Regards,

Rich

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