[PLUG-TALK] Irony repeats
Eldo Varghese
eldo at poningru.com
Mon May 20 18:37:54 UTC 2024
On 5/20/24 11:13 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> You do realize do you not that the "millennium old political and social
> infrastructure of these countries" was terrifically repressive towards women
> and, in fact, towards a LOT of people. Slavery, among other things, was
> legal. Prostitution was legal and if you were a woman in a relationship
> where your husband was beating you then you couldn't divorce - or if you
> did, you were unmarriable and had to go to the brothels to live.
>
> MOST people lived in poverty and life was NOT very pleasant for them.
>
> You have a rose-colored liberal progressive view of what life was actually
> like. Those societies were static because you had a few people on top of
> the pile using money and military might to repress a ton of other people.
> They were not static and peaceful because the majority of people LIKED
> living like that. Most of them hated it but could not do anything about it.
Age old colonial mentality, since this country isnt perfect and is
regressive in these particular ways we can go and meddle in their
affairs in order to exploit and extract value from them to send it home.
https://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2#-21
yes Afghanistan had regressive sexist ideals, but it certainly was
better than cold-war/war on terror invasions.
>
> " I think they have other reasons to not like western countries and folks
> allied to us"
>
> And yet when you read the many years of National Geographic articles and
> many other articles written in the Mid East such as in papers like Al
> Jazeera you will find that the rank and file PEOPLE who live in those
> societies don't actually hate western countries and instead want to emulate
> them. It is their LEADERS that hate Westernized thought - because
> Westernized thought destroys those leaders absolute hold on power.
This is precisely my point, most folks dont care for these wars and
would rather not "kill each other over a few square miles of worthless
dirt in Israel" as you quoted.
>
> " the lid on 'excessive babymaking' is due to the current reproductive age
> generation not having a good outlook on the future"
>
> Good outlook on WHAT future? A future where you can have unlimited numbers
> of babies and the State will take responsibility for educating them so they
> can have productive jobs in the economy? Yes. That ship has sailed.
Wow! how many mothers does it take to make these "unlimited numbers of
babies"? hyperbole much?
Atleast read the osu source I cited. Current generation, similar to
their counterparts in 60s and 70s, want on average 2.1 children per
couple, they can only have 1.6 children per couple. This effect is due
to the aforementioned destruction, waged upon us starting in the 80s and
continuing today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1962-_Net_personal_wealth_-_average_in_percentile_ranges_-_linear_scale_-_US.svg
Folks in 60s and 70s didnt want unlimited children, folks today dont
want unlimited children. They just want a livable wage, childcare,
healthcare and not die a pauper because they want to go be a teacher
rather than an engineer.
>
> A future where if you and your wife are professional-level workers making a
> professional-level salary you CAN afford to send TWO or possibly THREE kids
> through college and they can graduate with degrees that allow them to
> continue on making professional level salaries - ah THAT future is actually
> pretty bright and hopeful. >
> There's plenty of subcultures in the US where this is the case. YOU don't
> read studies of those because it's not that common to study successes to
> figure out what works, the studies are done on the poor and poverty sector
> to try and figure out how to fix poverty. This is a human failing we have.
> We tend to pay attention to problems and not pay attention to where there is
> no problem.
>
> Ted
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PLUG-talk <plug-talk-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org> On Behalf Of Eldo
> Varghese
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2024 9:52 AM
> To: Off-topic and potentially flammable discussion
> <plug-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org>
> Subject: Re: [PLUG-TALK] Irony repeats
>
> I really should leave these kind of racist thoughts and ideas alone, since
> as Shaw says "Never wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pig likes
> it".
>
> On 5/17/24 4:26 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>> Why go to all that trouble.
>>
>> Just unplug the camera and let them pontificate. They won't even know
>> it's not turned on.
>>
>> Seriously the issue today, as much as people want to pretend it
>> doesn't exist, is simply that of overpopulation.
>>
>> As the world population grows resources get scarce and people fight
>> over them.
>>
>> The reason Global Warming didn't happen for the first couple hundred
>> years of the Industrial Revolution is because the Environment has the
>> capability of absorbing and processing quite a lot of pollution.
>>
>> So you run your lawnmower or car and the plants grow more and use up
>> the additional carbon dioxide and you get to pollute
>> And the plants get more CO2 Everyone is happy
> If the rest of the earth consumed like the US population does, we'd need
> 5.1 earths (2018 numbers, it's only gotten worse).
> US fossil fuel consumption is not sustainable. Plants cant absorb it all.
> I'll just leave this link to an appropriate graph:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:20211026_Cumulative_carbon_dioxide_CO2_em
> issions_by_country_-_bar_chart.svg
>>
>> But today, even though the developed countries (like the United States
>> and
>> Europe) have put a lid on the excessive babymaking,
>
> https://news.osu.edu/falling-birth-rate-not-due-to-less-desire-to-have-child
> ren/
> the lid on 'excessive babymaking' is due to the current reproductive age
> generation not having a good outlook on the future. Mostly due to the boomer
> generation messing up the environmental, financial, social and political
> future of this country.
>
> and our native
>> populations are either remaining steady or shrinking - the poor
>> countries like Mexico have not
>>
>> And why not? What else is there to do in Mexico but reproduce? It's
>> not like there's much future in the country unless your life's goal is
>> to raise tomatoes for the US to consume.I think you will find that most
> folks dont live to serve the US.
>>
>> The same goes in Eastern Europe, and in the Mid East. The Mid East
>> especially is a horrendously sad place. They have the money coming in
>> that every last one of them could be living a wonderful lifestyle,
>> with the arts, the sciences, indoor plumbing, modern cities, air
>> conditioning, and the rest of it.
> What you are describing is colonialism based destruction of the millennium
> old political and social infrastructure of these countries due to
> colonialism whether modern or otherwise.
> But instead they would rather kill each other over a few square
>> miles of worthless dirt in Israel that allegedly some guy walked
>> around on preaching to people to not kill each other over 2000 years ago.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Release_of_U.S
> ._government_records_and_official_acknowledgement
>
> I think they have other reasons to not like western countries and folks
> allied to us.
>>
>> So let's get the babymaking cranked up full blast. Gotta keep
>> supplying a new crop of cannon fodder for the next generation's war
>> that was just the last generation's war and the generations before
>> that war. Gotta keep our women pregnant until they all look like worn
>> out vacuum sweeper bags, and gotta keep killing off the seed of their
> wombs the second it matures.
>
>>
>> And when you run out of places to stand no problem just export your
>> extra people to the wealthy countries. Why bother making your own
>> country wealthy by curbing the breeding. Might get the Catholic God mad
> at you.
>
>>
>> I'm not a MAGAoot but I definitely understand where the "build the wall"
>> sentiment comes from.I dont know if you are a MAGAhat or not, but your
>> ideas seem very
> similar to other MAGAhats. Including this particularly xenophobic one.
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-16/trump-s-border-wall-is-a-
> monument-to-white-supremacy
>>
>> Ted
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: PLUG-talk <plug-talk-bounces at lists.pdxlinux.org> On Behalf Of
>> Keith Lofstrom
>> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2024 11:40 PM
>> To: Off-topic and potentially flammable discussion
>> <plug-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PLUG-TALK] Irony repeats
>>
>> Politics, feh. Liberal, Conservative, Progressive?
>>
>> I'm an Engineer. I don't think anyone should pontificate in front of
>> a television camera who cannot repair one.
>>
>> I'm not a "Political activist", or I would arrange things so that
>> camera repair was necessary.
>>
>> Keith L.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org
> PLUG-talk mailing list
> PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org
> https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk
>
More information about the PLUG-talk
mailing list