From keithl at keithl.com Mon Mar 10 19:26:25 2025 From: keithl at keithl.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 12:26:25 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges Message-ID: <20250310192625.GA3111@gate.kl-ic.com> THE ASK: Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold refurbs are gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner refurb shops online, but I don't know which ones to trust. What's your suggestions? THE LAME EXCUSE: Yes, I still use ancient laser printers; B&W HP4100n, HP4050n, a rarely used HP2605n color printer. I love the 4's because I can repair them, have spare parts, and the toner cartridges are big and (in the past) refurbish-able locally. The 2605 is difficult to work on; compact means removing a dozen assemblies to get at a balky one, though I have done so. Modern laser printers appear to have tiny cartridges with high cost per print. Those printers are faster, perhaps more reliable, but service manuals and repair parts are not plentiful. Keith L. P.S. I use CUPS to drive the printers. I can still drive these ancient Postscript printers with the CUPS drivers that come with Debian Bookworm, but I worry about future support by "driverless IPP" in Trixie. I'd like to learn more. If you reply to the list about drivers, please change the subject line. P.P.S. I also worry about international toner supply chain disruptions when the other 96% of the world responds to the tantrums of The Current Occupant with a "go to your room, U.S.". That is DEFINITELY a different subject line. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com From tedm at portlandia-it.com Fri Mar 14 04:51:34 2025 From: tedm at portlandia-it.com (Ted Mittelstaedt) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 21:51:34 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges In-Reply-To: <20250310192625.GA3111@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250310192625.GA3111@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <034401db949c$c34994f0$49dcbed0$@portlandia-it.com> Keith, What has happened is the manufacturers are now producing 2 almost identical printers - identical that is with the exception of the size of the toner cartridges and their yields. The printers with the small toner cartridges are sold over the counter retail to end users. They are not user serviceable, that is the only repair parts you can get come from the grey market overseas. They are tricky to take apart. The printers with the larger toner cartridges are sold through the copier/printer dealerships. They cost 2-3 times what the retail sold printers cost. But they have service manuals available, parts available and as I mentioned, page yields on the cartridges are far, far greater. >From the outside you can set these printers next to each other and the only difference is the model number otherwise they look identical. Printing today is a luxury. Everything you used to need a printer for can be done digitally now. Nobody NEEDS a printer. They just THINK they need a printer - and so in order to get their "feeling" met to hold paper in their hot little hands - the printer makers make darn sure they are gonna pay. They either pay upfront - when they buy a dealer-only printer, or they pay over time - when they keep buying then replacing their tiny toner cartridges. The reason you see the refurb houses online is that refurb toner cartridges are a big boys game now. Printer companies in some cases use encryption in the chips in the cartridges and are constantly pushing out "firmware updates" that do nothing other than invalidate chips the aftermarket has released. Or, the printer allows the cartridge but spams the user interface with warnings which greatly upsets Ma and Pa Kettle who then want to return the cartridge to the refurb house - so to avoid losing money the refurb house wants to make the printer STFU. Unless the refurb house is moving thousands of cartridges a month they can't keep abreast of the cat and mouse game. A number of years ago I actually bought a toner kit and tried refilling some Laserjet 4+ cartridges. It worked fine - the printer printed no problem. But it was messy even though I took a lot of care to not spill toner - the stuff gets everywhere. My suggestion is do what I do and just do everything possible to avoid printing. Ted -----Original Message----- From: PLUG-talk On Behalf Of Keith Lofstrom Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 12:26 PM To: plug-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges THE ASK: Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold refurbs are gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner refurb shops online, but I don't know which ones to trust. What's your suggestions? THE LAME EXCUSE: Yes, I still use ancient laser printers; B&W HP4100n, HP4050n, a rarely used HP2605n color printer. I love the 4's because I can repair them, have spare parts, and the toner cartridges are big and (in the past) refurbish-able locally. The 2605 is difficult to work on; compact means removing a dozen assemblies to get at a balky one, though I have done so. Modern laser printers appear to have tiny cartridges with high cost per print. Those printers are faster, perhaps more reliable, but service manuals and repair parts are not plentiful. Keith L. P.S. I use CUPS to drive the printers. I can still drive these ancient Postscript printers with the CUPS drivers that come with Debian Bookworm, but I worry about future support by "driverless IPP" in Trixie. I'd like to learn more. If you reply to the list about drivers, please change the subject line. P.P.S. I also worry about international toner supply chain disruptions when the other 96% of the world responds to the tantrums of The Current Occupant with a "go to your room, U.S.". That is DEFINITELY a different subject line. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com _______________________________________________ PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org PLUG-talk mailing list PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk From keithl at keithl.com Sat Mar 15 03:51:50 2025 From: keithl at keithl.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:51:50 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] Message-ID: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> I will ask again - with less explanation to trigger irrelevant top post text-spews about a question that was NOT asked. DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? WHICH SHOPS SELL GOOD TONER CARTRIDGES FOR OLDER PRINTERS? (pardon my frustrated shouting ...) > -----Original Message----- > Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges > > THE ASK: > > Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? > > The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold refurbs are > gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner refurb shops online, > but I don't know which ones to trust. MOSTEST importantly, if you change the subject, change the subject line, summarize, and don't top post. Plug-talk isn't Facebook. I hope we NEVER sink that low. Keith L. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Mar 15 12:53:44 2025 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 05:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] In-Reply-To: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <2b3f6aaa-8c1d-a5b5-929b-472338da955d@appl-ecosys.com> On Fri, 14 Mar 2025, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES > FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? Keith, No. A few years ago I purchased 2 refilled LJ-5 toner cartridges from the Gresham Cartridge World store. I print so little nowadays, but do have need to print now and then, that they're still sitting unopened in their boxes. I think that that store closed with the pandemic. Regards, Rich From tedm at portlandia-it.com Sat Mar 15 15:03:03 2025 From: tedm at portlandia-it.com (Ted Mittelstaedt) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 08:03:03 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] In-Reply-To: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <00a901db95bb$59ac7920$0d056b60$@portlandia-it.com> NO and I TOLD YOU WHY. Refilled cartridges are a big boys business now and the locals you think are still around DON'T EXIST ANYORE. These shops depended on printer REPAIR to keep them in business. The cartridges were a sideline, but not their bread and butter. But nowadays the printer dealers use leasing to warp the market such that those shops can't exist anymore merely repairing older printers. In fact the business has gotten so big now, that nowadays they remanufacture cartridges and use the old ones as raw materials. Nobody Refills cartridges anymore. I'm sorry you are frustrated but I don't like it that stores like Wacky Willies and Free Geek Store closed, and the only local place you can get Something oddball like a 48v power supply or an RS232 cable is a place called Surplus Gizmos out on Cornelius Pass, and their prices are So high it's not worth walking into the store anymore, unless you just want to revel in antique tech. The tech market has changed. Accept it and go online like everyone else does, or be mad at me and keep banging your head against the wall. Ted -----Original Message----- From: PLUG-talk On Behalf Of Keith Lofstrom Sent: Friday, March 14, 2025 8:52 PM To: 'Off-topic and potentially flammable discussion' Subject: Re: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] I will ask again - with less explanation to trigger irrelevant top post text-spews about a question that was NOT asked. DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? WHICH SHOPS SELL GOOD TONER CARTRIDGES FOR OLDER PRINTERS? (pardon my frustrated shouting ...) > -----Original Message----- > Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges > > THE ASK: > > Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? > > The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold > refurbs are gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner > refurb shops online, but I don't know which ones to trust. MOSTEST importantly, if you change the subject, change the subject line, summarize, and don't top post. Plug-talk isn't Facebook. I hope we NEVER sink that low. Keith L. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com _______________________________________________ PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org PLUG-talk mailing list PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk From aaron at bavariati.org Sat Mar 15 17:10:56 2025 From: aaron at bavariati.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 10:10:56 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] In-Reply-To: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <436009cb-4483-40c6-bab3-32f1c457cdc6@app.fastmail.com> On Fri, Mar 14, 2025, at 8:51 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I will ask again - with less explanation to trigger irrelevant > top post text-spews about a question that was NOT asked. > > DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES > FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? "Not I" said the cat. My last local toner refill was ~10 years ago through a dropoff/pickup operation run out of a Chinese bakery on SE 82nd Ave, and I was probably one of their last customers. It was kind of a crappy job and I had to deal with leaks and streaks, but my printer hobbled through its ~50 pages/year until finally I set out on a Refill Quest last year. I found ---> NO LOCAL OPTIONS FOR TONER REFILLS <--- so I got something cheap off EBay that has worked perfectly so far. I still need to de-hoard the old cartridge into the trash though. > WHICH SHOPS SELL GOOD TONER CARTRIDGES FOR OLDER PRINTERS? Office Depot maybe, but unless it's already on the shelf, they're buying it online on your behalf. > (pardon my frustrated shouting ...) I beg pardon for any poetic elaboration and banter on a simple question whose answer is a flat NO. I laser-print boarding-passes and good recipes, listen to CDs and terrestrial radio, do minor car repairs, read paper books and magazines, walk to places, use bar soap, plan meals for leftovers, carry cash and small change, double-space after a full stop, religiously dine at a table instead of a couch or desk, check primary sources, refer to online shopping as "mail order", and drive a stick-shift. I am apparently a coelacanth. Yelling at cloud alongside you, Aaron