From keithl at keithl.com Mon Mar 10 19:26:25 2025 From: keithl at keithl.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2025 12:26:25 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges Message-ID: <20250310192625.GA3111@gate.kl-ic.com> THE ASK: Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold refurbs are gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner refurb shops online, but I don't know which ones to trust. What's your suggestions? THE LAME EXCUSE: Yes, I still use ancient laser printers; B&W HP4100n, HP4050n, a rarely used HP2605n color printer. I love the 4's because I can repair them, have spare parts, and the toner cartridges are big and (in the past) refurbish-able locally. The 2605 is difficult to work on; compact means removing a dozen assemblies to get at a balky one, though I have done so. Modern laser printers appear to have tiny cartridges with high cost per print. Those printers are faster, perhaps more reliable, but service manuals and repair parts are not plentiful. Keith L. P.S. I use CUPS to drive the printers. I can still drive these ancient Postscript printers with the CUPS drivers that come with Debian Bookworm, but I worry about future support by "driverless IPP" in Trixie. I'd like to learn more. If you reply to the list about drivers, please change the subject line. P.P.S. I also worry about international toner supply chain disruptions when the other 96% of the world responds to the tantrums of The Current Occupant with a "go to your room, U.S.". That is DEFINITELY a different subject line. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com From tedm at portlandia-it.com Fri Mar 14 04:51:34 2025 From: tedm at portlandia-it.com (Ted Mittelstaedt) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2025 21:51:34 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges In-Reply-To: <20250310192625.GA3111@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250310192625.GA3111@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <034401db949c$c34994f0$49dcbed0$@portlandia-it.com> Keith, What has happened is the manufacturers are now producing 2 almost identical printers - identical that is with the exception of the size of the toner cartridges and their yields. The printers with the small toner cartridges are sold over the counter retail to end users. They are not user serviceable, that is the only repair parts you can get come from the grey market overseas. They are tricky to take apart. The printers with the larger toner cartridges are sold through the copier/printer dealerships. They cost 2-3 times what the retail sold printers cost. But they have service manuals available, parts available and as I mentioned, page yields on the cartridges are far, far greater. >From the outside you can set these printers next to each other and the only difference is the model number otherwise they look identical. Printing today is a luxury. Everything you used to need a printer for can be done digitally now. Nobody NEEDS a printer. They just THINK they need a printer - and so in order to get their "feeling" met to hold paper in their hot little hands - the printer makers make darn sure they are gonna pay. They either pay upfront - when they buy a dealer-only printer, or they pay over time - when they keep buying then replacing their tiny toner cartridges. The reason you see the refurb houses online is that refurb toner cartridges are a big boys game now. Printer companies in some cases use encryption in the chips in the cartridges and are constantly pushing out "firmware updates" that do nothing other than invalidate chips the aftermarket has released. Or, the printer allows the cartridge but spams the user interface with warnings which greatly upsets Ma and Pa Kettle who then want to return the cartridge to the refurb house - so to avoid losing money the refurb house wants to make the printer STFU. Unless the refurb house is moving thousands of cartridges a month they can't keep abreast of the cat and mouse game. A number of years ago I actually bought a toner kit and tried refilling some Laserjet 4+ cartridges. It worked fine - the printer printed no problem. But it was messy even though I took a lot of care to not spill toner - the stuff gets everywhere. My suggestion is do what I do and just do everything possible to avoid printing. Ted -----Original Message----- From: PLUG-talk On Behalf Of Keith Lofstrom Sent: Monday, March 10, 2025 12:26 PM To: plug-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges THE ASK: Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold refurbs are gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner refurb shops online, but I don't know which ones to trust. What's your suggestions? THE LAME EXCUSE: Yes, I still use ancient laser printers; B&W HP4100n, HP4050n, a rarely used HP2605n color printer. I love the 4's because I can repair them, have spare parts, and the toner cartridges are big and (in the past) refurbish-able locally. The 2605 is difficult to work on; compact means removing a dozen assemblies to get at a balky one, though I have done so. Modern laser printers appear to have tiny cartridges with high cost per print. Those printers are faster, perhaps more reliable, but service manuals and repair parts are not plentiful. Keith L. P.S. I use CUPS to drive the printers. I can still drive these ancient Postscript printers with the CUPS drivers that come with Debian Bookworm, but I worry about future support by "driverless IPP" in Trixie. I'd like to learn more. If you reply to the list about drivers, please change the subject line. P.P.S. I also worry about international toner supply chain disruptions when the other 96% of the world responds to the tantrums of The Current Occupant with a "go to your room, U.S.". That is DEFINITELY a different subject line. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com _______________________________________________ PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org PLUG-talk mailing list PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk From keithl at keithl.com Sat Mar 15 03:51:50 2025 From: keithl at keithl.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 20:51:50 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] Message-ID: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> I will ask again - with less explanation to trigger irrelevant top post text-spews about a question that was NOT asked. DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? WHICH SHOPS SELL GOOD TONER CARTRIDGES FOR OLDER PRINTERS? (pardon my frustrated shouting ...) > -----Original Message----- > Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges > > THE ASK: > > Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? > > The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold refurbs are > gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner refurb shops online, > but I don't know which ones to trust. MOSTEST importantly, if you change the subject, change the subject line, summarize, and don't top post. Plug-talk isn't Facebook. I hope we NEVER sink that low. Keith L. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Mar 15 12:53:44 2025 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 05:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] In-Reply-To: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <2b3f6aaa-8c1d-a5b5-929b-472338da955d@appl-ecosys.com> On Fri, 14 Mar 2025, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES > FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? Keith, No. A few years ago I purchased 2 refilled LJ-5 toner cartridges from the Gresham Cartridge World store. I print so little nowadays, but do have need to print now and then, that they're still sitting unopened in their boxes. I think that that store closed with the pandemic. Regards, Rich From tedm at portlandia-it.com Sat Mar 15 15:03:03 2025 From: tedm at portlandia-it.com (Ted Mittelstaedt) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 08:03:03 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] In-Reply-To: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <00a901db95bb$59ac7920$0d056b60$@portlandia-it.com> NO and I TOLD YOU WHY. Refilled cartridges are a big boys business now and the locals you think are still around DON'T EXIST ANYORE. These shops depended on printer REPAIR to keep them in business. The cartridges were a sideline, but not their bread and butter. But nowadays the printer dealers use leasing to warp the market such that those shops can't exist anymore merely repairing older printers. In fact the business has gotten so big now, that nowadays they remanufacture cartridges and use the old ones as raw materials. Nobody Refills cartridges anymore. I'm sorry you are frustrated but I don't like it that stores like Wacky Willies and Free Geek Store closed, and the only local place you can get Something oddball like a 48v power supply or an RS232 cable is a place called Surplus Gizmos out on Cornelius Pass, and their prices are So high it's not worth walking into the store anymore, unless you just want to revel in antique tech. The tech market has changed. Accept it and go online like everyone else does, or be mad at me and keep banging your head against the wall. Ted -----Original Message----- From: PLUG-talk On Behalf Of Keith Lofstrom Sent: Friday, March 14, 2025 8:52 PM To: 'Off-topic and potentially flammable discussion' Subject: Re: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] I will ask again - with less explanation to trigger irrelevant top post text-spews about a question that was NOT asked. DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? WHICH SHOPS SELL GOOD TONER CARTRIDGES FOR OLDER PRINTERS? (pardon my frustrated shouting ...) > -----Original Message----- > Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges > > THE ASK: > > Where to purchase and recycle toner cartridges??? > > The two small local shops that took my empty cartridges and sold > refurbs are gone. There are websites for other Portland area toner > refurb shops online, but I don't know which ones to trust. MOSTEST importantly, if you change the subject, change the subject line, summarize, and don't top post. Plug-talk isn't Facebook. I hope we NEVER sink that low. Keith L. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com _______________________________________________ PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org PLUG-talk mailing list PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk From aaron at bavariati.org Sat Mar 15 17:10:56 2025 From: aaron at bavariati.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 10:10:56 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] In-Reply-To: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <436009cb-4483-40c6-bab3-32f1c457cdc6@app.fastmail.com> On Fri, Mar 14, 2025, at 8:51 PM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I will ask again - with less explanation to trigger irrelevant > top post text-spews about a question that was NOT asked. > > DOES ANYONE ON THE PLUG LIST STILL BUY REFILLED TONER CARTRIDGES > FROM PORTLAND AREA REFILL SHOPS, TRADING THE EMPTIES? "Not I" said the cat. My last local toner refill was ~10 years ago through a dropoff/pickup operation run out of a Chinese bakery on SE 82nd Ave, and I was probably one of their last customers. It was kind of a crappy job and I had to deal with leaks and streaks, but my printer hobbled through its ~50 pages/year until finally I set out on a Refill Quest last year. I found ---> NO LOCAL OPTIONS FOR TONER REFILLS <--- so I got something cheap off EBay that has worked perfectly so far. I still need to de-hoard the old cartridge into the trash though. > WHICH SHOPS SELL GOOD TONER CARTRIDGES FOR OLDER PRINTERS? Office Depot maybe, but unless it's already on the shelf, they're buying it online on your behalf. > (pardon my frustrated shouting ...) I beg pardon for any poetic elaboration and banter on a simple question whose answer is a flat NO. I laser-print boarding-passes and good recipes, listen to CDs and terrestrial radio, do minor car repairs, read paper books and magazines, walk to places, use bar soap, plan meals for leftovers, carry cash and small change, double-space after a full stop, religiously dine at a table instead of a couch or desk, check primary sources, refer to online shopping as "mail order", and drive a stick-shift. I am apparently a coelacanth. Yelling at cloud alongside you, Aaron From galens at seitzassoc.com Sun Mar 16 15:57:19 2025 From: galens at seitzassoc.com (Galen Seitz) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2025 08:57:19 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges [Try Again] In-Reply-To: <436009cb-4483-40c6-bab3-32f1c457cdc6@app.fastmail.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> <436009cb-4483-40c6-bab3-32f1c457cdc6@app.fastmail.com> Message-ID: <292e5465-5187-4cb5-96f1-b8347fb34124@seitzassoc.com> On 3/15/25 10:10, Aaron Burt wrote: > > I laser-print boarding-passes and good recipes, listen to CDs and > terrestrial radio, do minor car repairs, read paper books and > magazines, walk to places, use bar soap, plan meals for leftovers, > carry cash and small change, double-space after a full stop, > religiously dine at a table instead of a couch or desk, check > primary sources, refer to online shopping as "mail order", and drive > a stick-shift. I am apparently a coelacanth. LOL galen -- Galen Seitz galens at seitzassoc.com From aaron at bavariati.org Mon Mar 17 00:40:34 2025 From: aaron at bavariati.org (Aaron Burt) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2025 17:40:34 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Banter unrelated to Recycling/Buying laser toner cartridges In-Reply-To: <292e5465-5187-4cb5-96f1-b8347fb34124@seitzassoc.com> References: <20250315035150.GB14116@gate.kl-ic.com> <436009cb-4483-40c6-bab3-32f1c457cdc6@app.fastmail.com> <292e5465-5187-4cb5-96f1-b8347fb34124@seitzassoc.com> Message-ID: <3c70da43-3441-421e-bddf-edbc1bb6b74d@app.fastmail.com> On Sun, Mar 16, 2025, at 8:57 AM, Galen Seitz wrote: > On 3/15/25 10:10, Aaron Burt wrote: >> >> I laser-print boarding-passes and good recipes, listen to CDs and >> terrestrial radio, do minor car repairs, read paper books and >> magazines, walk to places, use bar soap, plan meals for leftovers, >> carry cash and small change, double-space after a full stop, >> religiously dine at a table instead of a couch or desk, check >> primary sources, refer to online shopping as "mail order", and drive >> a stick-shift. I am apparently a coelacanth. > > LOL > > 9.5 years ago is recent for us coelacanths. :) (It was a more innocent time. Yesterday I heard a country song complaining about Bill Clinton playing a saxophone while Us Real Folks suffered and thought, "I'm glad someone remembers Arsenio Hall.") From keithl at keithl.com Tue Mar 25 07:28:54 2025 From: keithl at keithl.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 00:28:54 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting Message-ID: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> I repair stuff WAY past obsolescence. Currently working on an old blender, in particular the fragile "jar nut" that holds the blade spinner + gasket, and tightens onto a 3 inch Mason thread jar. I have one remaining good jar nut, and four used ones, with hairline cracks -- typical for 40-year-old plastic in a high-vibration environment. Pretty soon, I will have zero jar nuts. Amazon, Ebay, Craigslist, Etsy ... no joy for my ancient model. MANY blender jars; I'm not the first to break my nuts :-) The plastic jar nut is mostly hollow, 3.25 inches diameter, 1 inch tall, averaging 0.2 inch thick (designed with inch units), and weighs 26 grams. I can imagine 3D printing jar nuts (perhaps five, aiming for a 33 year supply) using strong plastic filament. However, creating the CAD file might be complicated. Correct me if I'm wrong ... there are many 3D printer owners nearby, some with spouses expecting a return on investment. I would be glad to provide an excuse for a well equipped geek (and perhaps repair electronics gizzies for geek and spouse). ---- An alternative might be using two or three of the (hairline) cracked nuts to shape molds, then cast jar nuts in aluminum. Those jar nuts would last forever. Local commercial foundries charge $$$$ to make MANY cast parts, and may charge $$$$-$20 to make five. There might be an eBay market for more jar nuts, if somebody else wants to be in the mail order retail business - not me. OTOH, there may be hobbyists (or trade school students) who make small aluminum castings, and also have spouses expecting ROI. The goal here isn't so much saving money on a new blender, as collaborating with another geek in a fun hack. Keith L. P.S. Why a 33 year supply? I want this kludge to endure until the 200th anniversary of the Mason jar. I will be 106yo, like my father-in-law is. My M.D. wife's medical skills are one reason for F.I.L.'s 106 (107 in June). -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com From scoppettat at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 14:09:35 2025 From: scoppettat at gmail.com (Timothy Scoppetta) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 07:09:35 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting In-Reply-To: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: Could you send a few pictures of the part in question? I'm happy to print them for you in something vaguely strong, petg-cf is usually my go to for functional parts. Have you looked around makerspace to see if anyone's already designed this (or a very similar) part? I'm also sure that someone in this city (maybe on this list?) has a 3d scanner that would make quick work of the design. But a little elbow grease and a good caliper would get us there just as well. Let me know if I can help, Tim On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 00:29 Keith Lofstrom wrote: > I repair stuff WAY past obsolescence. Currently working > on an old blender, in particular the fragile "jar nut" > that holds the blade spinner + gasket, and tightens onto > a 3 inch Mason thread jar. I have one remaining good jar > nut, and four used ones, with hairline cracks -- typical > for 40-year-old plastic in a high-vibration environment. > > Pretty soon, I will have zero jar nuts. Amazon, Ebay, > Craigslist, Etsy ... no joy for my ancient model. MANY > blender jars; I'm not the first to break my nuts :-) > > The plastic jar nut is mostly hollow, 3.25 inches > diameter, 1 inch tall, averaging 0.2 inch thick > (designed with inch units), and weighs 26 grams. > > I can imagine 3D printing jar nuts (perhaps five, aiming > for a 33 year supply) using strong plastic filament. > However, creating the CAD file might be complicated. > Correct me if I'm wrong ... there are many 3D printer > owners nearby, some with spouses expecting a return on > investment. I would be glad to provide an excuse for > a well equipped geek (and perhaps repair electronics > gizzies for geek and spouse). > > ---- > > An alternative might be using two or three of the > (hairline) cracked nuts to shape molds, then cast jar > nuts in aluminum. Those jar nuts would last forever. > > Local commercial foundries charge $$$$ to make MANY cast > parts, and may charge $$$$-$20 to make five. There might > be an eBay market for more jar nuts, if somebody else > wants to be in the mail order retail business - not me. > > OTOH, there may be hobbyists (or trade school students) > who make small aluminum castings, and also have spouses > expecting ROI. > > The goal here isn't so much saving money on a new blender, > as collaborating with another geek in a fun hack. > > Keith L. > > P.S. Why a 33 year supply? I want this kludge to endure > until the 200th anniversary of the Mason jar. I will be > 106yo, like my father-in-law is. My M.D. wife's medical > skills are one reason for F.I.L.'s 106 (107 in June). > > -- > Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com > _______________________________________________ > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > PLUG-talk mailing list > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > From tomas.kuchta.lists at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 14:51:15 2025 From: tomas.kuchta.lists at gmail.com (Tomas Kuchta) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 10:51:15 -0400 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting In-Reply-To: References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: Could any 3D person comment? Wouldn't resin printer be the right tool for this job rather than not too strong filament prints? Or just use the existing part to make casting form and cast it with epoxy resin? That would probably never break. This path of course defies the economics of today's manufacturing. Thanks, Tomas On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 10:09 Timothy Scoppetta wrote: > Could you send a few pictures of the part in question? I'm happy to print > them for you in something vaguely strong, petg-cf is usually my go to for > functional parts. Have you looked around makerspace to see if anyone's > already designed this (or a very similar) part? > > I'm also sure that someone in this city (maybe on this list?) has a 3d > scanner that would make quick work of the design. But a little elbow grease > and a good caliper would get us there just as well. > > Let me know if I can help, > Tim > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 00:29 Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > > I repair stuff WAY past obsolescence. Currently working > > on an old blender, in particular the fragile "jar nut" > > that holds the blade spinner + gasket, and tightens onto > > a 3 inch Mason thread jar. I have one remaining good jar > > nut, and four used ones, with hairline cracks -- typical > > for 40-year-old plastic in a high-vibration environment. > > > > Pretty soon, I will have zero jar nuts. Amazon, Ebay, > > Craigslist, Etsy ... no joy for my ancient model. MANY > > blender jars; I'm not the first to break my nuts :-) > > > > The plastic jar nut is mostly hollow, 3.25 inches > > diameter, 1 inch tall, averaging 0.2 inch thick > > (designed with inch units), and weighs 26 grams. > > > > I can imagine 3D printing jar nuts (perhaps five, aiming > > for a 33 year supply) using strong plastic filament. > > However, creating the CAD file might be complicated. > > Correct me if I'm wrong ... there are many 3D printer > > owners nearby, some with spouses expecting a return on > > investment. I would be glad to provide an excuse for > > a well equipped geek (and perhaps repair electronics > > gizzies for geek and spouse). > > > > ---- > > > > An alternative might be using two or three of the > > (hairline) cracked nuts to shape molds, then cast jar > > nuts in aluminum. Those jar nuts would last forever. > > > > Local commercial foundries charge $$$$ to make MANY cast > > parts, and may charge $$$$-$20 to make five. There might > > be an eBay market for more jar nuts, if somebody else > > wants to be in the mail order retail business - not me. > > > > OTOH, there may be hobbyists (or trade school students) > > who make small aluminum castings, and also have spouses > > expecting ROI. > > > > The goal here isn't so much saving money on a new blender, > > as collaborating with another geek in a fun hack. > > > > Keith L. > > > > P.S. Why a 33 year supply? I want this kludge to endure > > until the 200th anniversary of the Mason jar. I will be > > 106yo, like my father-in-law is. My M.D. wife's medical > > skills are one reason for F.I.L.'s 106 (107 in June). > > > > -- > > Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > > PLUG-talk mailing list > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > PLUG-talk mailing list > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > From scoppettat at gmail.com Tue Mar 25 21:36:41 2025 From: scoppettat at gmail.com (Timothy Scoppetta) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 14:36:41 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting In-Reply-To: References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: IMO, the "right tool" is a subjective assessment, depending on what we're optimizing for. Is it less reliable than a vinyl part? Sure. Less robust than a machined part? Of course. Is it cost-effective? Almost certainly not. Is there an easier way to spend an hour, end up with 10 parts, and know you could infinitely produce more of them? Probably not. On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 7:51?AM Tomas Kuchta wrote: > Could any 3D person comment? > > Wouldn't resin printer be the right tool for this job rather than not too > strong filament prints? > > Or just use the existing part to make casting form and cast it with epoxy > resin? That would probably never break. > > This path of course defies the economics of today's manufacturing. > > Thanks, Tomas > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 10:09 Timothy Scoppetta > wrote: > > > Could you send a few pictures of the part in question? I'm happy to print > > them for you in something vaguely strong, petg-cf is usually my go to for > > functional parts. Have you looked around makerspace to see if anyone's > > already designed this (or a very similar) part? > > > > I'm also sure that someone in this city (maybe on this list?) has a 3d > > scanner that would make quick work of the design. But a little elbow > grease > > and a good caliper would get us there just as well. > > > > Let me know if I can help, > > Tim > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 00:29 Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > > > > I repair stuff WAY past obsolescence. Currently working > > > on an old blender, in particular the fragile "jar nut" > > > that holds the blade spinner + gasket, and tightens onto > > > a 3 inch Mason thread jar. I have one remaining good jar > > > nut, and four used ones, with hairline cracks -- typical > > > for 40-year-old plastic in a high-vibration environment. > > > > > > Pretty soon, I will have zero jar nuts. Amazon, Ebay, > > > Craigslist, Etsy ... no joy for my ancient model. MANY > > > blender jars; I'm not the first to break my nuts :-) > > > > > > The plastic jar nut is mostly hollow, 3.25 inches > > > diameter, 1 inch tall, averaging 0.2 inch thick > > > (designed with inch units), and weighs 26 grams. > > > > > > I can imagine 3D printing jar nuts (perhaps five, aiming > > > for a 33 year supply) using strong plastic filament. > > > However, creating the CAD file might be complicated. > > > Correct me if I'm wrong ... there are many 3D printer > > > owners nearby, some with spouses expecting a return on > > > investment. I would be glad to provide an excuse for > > > a well equipped geek (and perhaps repair electronics > > > gizzies for geek and spouse). > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > An alternative might be using two or three of the > > > (hairline) cracked nuts to shape molds, then cast jar > > > nuts in aluminum. Those jar nuts would last forever. > > > > > > Local commercial foundries charge $$$$ to make MANY cast > > > parts, and may charge $$$$-$20 to make five. There might > > > be an eBay market for more jar nuts, if somebody else > > > wants to be in the mail order retail business - not me. > > > > > > OTOH, there may be hobbyists (or trade school students) > > > who make small aluminum castings, and also have spouses > > > expecting ROI. > > > > > > The goal here isn't so much saving money on a new blender, > > > as collaborating with another geek in a fun hack. > > > > > > Keith L. > > > > > > P.S. Why a 33 year supply? I want this kludge to endure > > > until the 200th anniversary of the Mason jar. I will be > > > 106yo, like my father-in-law is. My M.D. wife's medical > > > skills are one reason for F.I.L.'s 106 (107 in June). > > > > > > -- > > > Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > > > PLUG-talk mailing list > > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > > PLUG-talk mailing list > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > > > _______________________________________________ > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > PLUG-talk mailing list > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > -- Timothy Scoppetta P: 845-459-3002 E: scoppettat at gmail.com From denis.heidtmann at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 19:08:34 2025 From: denis.heidtmann at gmail.com (Denis Heidtmann) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 12:08:34 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting In-Reply-To: References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: I believe the important detail of the nut is the thread and gasket seating surface. I am imagining using an existing nut as a guide for a boring tool on a metal lathe to duplicate the needed shapes. I think a casting in glass-filled epoxy would be easier than aluminum. Make a rubber duplicate of the nut, then cast as many as needed. -Denis On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 2:37?PM Timothy Scoppetta wrote: > IMO, the "right tool" is a subjective assessment, depending on what we're > optimizing for. > > Is it less reliable than a vinyl part? Sure. > Less robust than a machined part? Of course. > Is it cost-effective? Almost certainly not. > > Is there an easier way to spend an hour, end up with 10 parts, and know you > could infinitely produce more of them? Probably not. > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 7:51?AM Tomas Kuchta > > wrote: > > > Could any 3D person comment? > > > > Wouldn't resin printer be the right tool for this job rather than not too > > strong filament prints? > > > > Or just use the existing part to make casting form and cast it with epoxy > > resin? That would probably never break. > > > > This path of course defies the economics of today's manufacturing. > > > > Thanks, Tomas > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 10:09 Timothy Scoppetta > > wrote: > > > > > Could you send a few pictures of the part in question? I'm happy to > print > > > them for you in something vaguely strong, petg-cf is usually my go to > for > > > functional parts. Have you looked around makerspace to see if anyone's > > > already designed this (or a very similar) part? > > > > > > I'm also sure that someone in this city (maybe on this list?) has a 3d > > > scanner that would make quick work of the design. But a little elbow > > grease > > > and a good caliper would get us there just as well. > > > > > > Let me know if I can help, > > > Tim > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 00:29 Keith Lofstrom wrote: > > > > > > > I repair stuff WAY past obsolescence. Currently working > > > > on an old blender, in particular the fragile "jar nut" > > > > that holds the blade spinner + gasket, and tightens onto > > > > a 3 inch Mason thread jar. I have one remaining good jar > > > > nut, and four used ones, with hairline cracks -- typical > > > > for 40-year-old plastic in a high-vibration environment. > > > > > > > > Pretty soon, I will have zero jar nuts. Amazon, Ebay, > > > > Craigslist, Etsy ... no joy for my ancient model. MANY > > > > blender jars; I'm not the first to break my nuts :-) > > > > > > > > The plastic jar nut is mostly hollow, 3.25 inches > > > > diameter, 1 inch tall, averaging 0.2 inch thick > > > > (designed with inch units), and weighs 26 grams. > > > > > > > > I can imagine 3D printing jar nuts (perhaps five, aiming > > > > for a 33 year supply) using strong plastic filament. > > > > However, creating the CAD file might be complicated. > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong ... there are many 3D printer > > > > owners nearby, some with spouses expecting a return on > > > > investment. I would be glad to provide an excuse for > > > > a well equipped geek (and perhaps repair electronics > > > > gizzies for geek and spouse). > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > An alternative might be using two or three of the > > > > (hairline) cracked nuts to shape molds, then cast jar > > > > nuts in aluminum. Those jar nuts would last forever. > > > > > > > > Local commercial foundries charge $$$$ to make MANY cast > > > > parts, and may charge $$$$-$20 to make five. There might > > > > be an eBay market for more jar nuts, if somebody else > > > > wants to be in the mail order retail business - not me. > > > > > > > > OTOH, there may be hobbyists (or trade school students) > > > > who make small aluminum castings, and also have spouses > > > > expecting ROI. > > > > > > > > The goal here isn't so much saving money on a new blender, > > > > as collaborating with another geek in a fun hack. > > > > > > > > Keith L. > > > > > > > > P.S. Why a 33 year supply? I want this kludge to endure > > > > until the 200th anniversary of the Mason jar. I will be > > > > 106yo, like my father-in-law is. My M.D. wife's medical > > > > skills are one reason for F.I.L.'s 106 (107 in June). > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > > > > PLUG-talk mailing list > > > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > > > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > > > PLUG-talk mailing list > > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > > PLUG-talk mailing list > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > > > > > -- > Timothy Scoppetta > > P: 845-459-3002 > E: scoppettat at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org > PLUG-talk mailing list > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk > From denis.heidtmann at gmail.com Wed Mar 26 19:10:32 2025 From: denis.heidtmann at gmail.com (Denis Heidtmann) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 12:10:32 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting In-Reply-To: References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: Can the existing nuts be machined to receive a reinforcing ring? This assumes the cracks are basically radial. -Denis On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 12:08?PM Denis Heidtmann wrote: > I believe the important detail of the nut is the thread and gasket seating > surface. I am imagining using an existing nut as a guide for a boring tool > on a metal lathe to duplicate the needed shapes. > > I think a casting in glass-filled epoxy would be easier than aluminum. > Make a rubber duplicate of the nut, then cast as many as needed. > > -Denis > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 2:37?PM Timothy Scoppetta > wrote: > >> IMO, the "right tool" is a subjective assessment, depending on what we're >> optimizing for. >> >> Is it less reliable than a vinyl part? Sure. >> Less robust than a machined part? Of course. >> Is it cost-effective? Almost certainly not. >> >> Is there an easier way to spend an hour, end up with 10 parts, and know >> you >> could infinitely produce more of them? Probably not. >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 7:51?AM Tomas Kuchta < >> tomas.kuchta.lists at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > Could any 3D person comment? >> > >> > Wouldn't resin printer be the right tool for this job rather than not >> too >> > strong filament prints? >> > >> > Or just use the existing part to make casting form and cast it with >> epoxy >> > resin? That would probably never break. >> > >> > This path of course defies the economics of today's manufacturing. >> > >> > Thanks, Tomas >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 10:09 Timothy Scoppetta >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Could you send a few pictures of the part in question? I'm happy to >> print >> > > them for you in something vaguely strong, petg-cf is usually my go to >> for >> > > functional parts. Have you looked around makerspace to see if anyone's >> > > already designed this (or a very similar) part? >> > > >> > > I'm also sure that someone in this city (maybe on this list?) has a 3d >> > > scanner that would make quick work of the design. But a little elbow >> > grease >> > > and a good caliper would get us there just as well. >> > > >> > > Let me know if I can help, >> > > Tim >> > > >> > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 00:29 Keith Lofstrom wrote: >> > > >> > > > I repair stuff WAY past obsolescence. Currently working >> > > > on an old blender, in particular the fragile "jar nut" >> > > > that holds the blade spinner + gasket, and tightens onto >> > > > a 3 inch Mason thread jar. I have one remaining good jar >> > > > nut, and four used ones, with hairline cracks -- typical >> > > > for 40-year-old plastic in a high-vibration environment. >> > > > >> > > > Pretty soon, I will have zero jar nuts. Amazon, Ebay, >> > > > Craigslist, Etsy ... no joy for my ancient model. MANY >> > > > blender jars; I'm not the first to break my nuts :-) >> > > > >> > > > The plastic jar nut is mostly hollow, 3.25 inches >> > > > diameter, 1 inch tall, averaging 0.2 inch thick >> > > > (designed with inch units), and weighs 26 grams. >> > > > >> > > > I can imagine 3D printing jar nuts (perhaps five, aiming >> > > > for a 33 year supply) using strong plastic filament. >> > > > However, creating the CAD file might be complicated. >> > > > Correct me if I'm wrong ... there are many 3D printer >> > > > owners nearby, some with spouses expecting a return on >> > > > investment. I would be glad to provide an excuse for >> > > > a well equipped geek (and perhaps repair electronics >> > > > gizzies for geek and spouse). >> > > > >> > > > ---- >> > > > >> > > > An alternative might be using two or three of the >> > > > (hairline) cracked nuts to shape molds, then cast jar >> > > > nuts in aluminum. Those jar nuts would last forever. >> > > > >> > > > Local commercial foundries charge $$$$ to make MANY cast >> > > > parts, and may charge $$$$-$20 to make five. There might >> > > > be an eBay market for more jar nuts, if somebody else >> > > > wants to be in the mail order retail business - not me. >> > > > >> > > > OTOH, there may be hobbyists (or trade school students) >> > > > who make small aluminum castings, and also have spouses >> > > > expecting ROI. >> > > > >> > > > The goal here isn't so much saving money on a new blender, >> > > > as collaborating with another geek in a fun hack. >> > > > >> > > > Keith L. >> > > > >> > > > P.S. Why a 33 year supply? I want this kludge to endure >> > > > until the 200th anniversary of the Mason jar. I will be >> > > > 106yo, like my father-in-law is. My M.D. wife's medical >> > > > skills are one reason for F.I.L.'s 106 (107 in June). >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org >> > > > PLUG-talk mailing list >> > > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org >> > > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org >> > > PLUG-talk mailing list >> > > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org >> > > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org >> > PLUG-talk mailing list >> > PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org >> > https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk >> > >> >> >> -- >> Timothy Scoppetta >> >> P: 845-459-3002 >> E: scoppettat at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org >> PLUG-talk mailing list >> PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org >> https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk >> > From keithl at keithl.com Wed Mar 26 21:52:53 2025 From: keithl at keithl.com (Keith Lofstrom) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 14:52:53 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum (NOT) casting In-Reply-To: References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <20250326215252.GA26011@gate.kl-ic.com> Thanks to all for the replies. Attached image of "jar screw" aka "blender screw cap": First: (oopsie) I learned this object is called a "bottom screw cap", which led to Chinese knockoff sources on eBay. Probably "happy family mixed vegetable" brand, my term for light manufacturing that occurs in Asian restaurant kitchens between mealtimes, maximizing productivity per square meter :-) Second: aluminum casting, using an original screw cap (with a hairline fracture) to create the mould ... WON'T WORK. Aluminum thermally expands. Between 20C and 660C aluminum melting point, 1.5%. Probably more, as the molten aluminum must be hot enough to fill the mold without prematurely freezing. Anyway, a jar nut cast "hot-to-size" would be too small after cooling. The manufactured plastic part was cast from hot liquid plastic (probably also with a shrink allowance), so using the original part to make a plastic mold would also yield a too-small result. It IS threaded inside, and the threads need to seal a 2.5 inch diameter Mason jar thread (as mentioned last time, a more-than 170 year old standard). Working as a nut, a bottom screw cap endures considerable circumferential stress (or doesn't, hence hairline cracks in prior bottom screw caps), so the plastic must have decent tensile strength. Which the nuts I purchased years ago did not have, maybe too much Chinese restaurant cooking oil in the mix. :-) I can purchase more fragile bottom screw caps, but I prefer something that lasts. ---- So, we are left with 3D printing, and aren't you all glad that our friend with the 3D printer will have another spouse-excuse justification for owning one? A 3D printer may be sorta like owning a sailboat (a hole in the water into which you pour money), without the annoyance of Coast Guard rescues, but more beeping smoke alarms. Cheaper than a greenhouse, as hobbies go. Whatever plastic is 3D printed must be strong and non- toxic, though it may be possible to hand-embed some strong circumferential fibers in the slowly rising part. The inside screw threads might be difficult to make from an image (the imager must see the inside threads), but with a clever CAD tool, one can measure the outer threads on a blender jar (or a Mason jar) and "subtract" that 3D shape from the center of the screw cap shape. Generalizing that "inner thread" might lead to other amusing "caps", like sippy cup lids attached to Mason jars. The traditional choice of "jar beverage" is backyard-still moonshine ... but now we are back in spouse-excuse territory. It's best that we share the process and spread the blame. So, no vinyl. Save that for other spouse-pleasing projects. Keith L. -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Thu Mar 27 12:51:52 2025 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 05:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum (NOT) casting In-Reply-To: <20250326215252.GA26011@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> <20250326215252.GA26011@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <7887c82-aeb4-a1f2-6919-5d4e40949d4c@appl-ecosys.com> On Wed, 26 Mar 2025, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > Second: aluminum casting, using an original screw cap > (with a hairline fracture) to create the mould ... Keith, Have you tried a metal epoxy to fill that crack? Rich From tedm at portlandia-it.com Mon Mar 31 02:55:28 2025 From: tedm at portlandia-it.com (Ted Mittelstaedt) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2025 19:55:28 -0700 Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting In-Reply-To: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> References: <20250325072854.GA32522@gate.kl-ic.com> Message-ID: <070301dba1e8$5bedfe50$13c9faf0$@portlandia-it.com> I've been following this with interest, Keith, I've got an old blender as well. It has been through 2 bases, 3 jars, and a couple of jar nuts. None of the original parts exist anymore of course, but the blender lives on. I've never had a problem finding parts on Ebay. My suggestion is you inform the family that it is not necessary to tighten the nut down with gorilla strength. Hand-tight will do. 1-5 nm on a torque wrench. Sealing is accomplished by the rubber gasket which only needs a few thousands indentation, not by sheer torque force. There used to be many of the older jar nuts around in thrift stores, etc. as people would drop the blender jar and shatter it until the companies started making them out of plastic. Now the thing that dies the most is the bases, you can find many blender jars complete with knives and jar nuts in the thrift stores with the bases long gone. Note that if you are really determined to keep it going you need to check the condition of the motor brushes in the base. Ted -----Original Message----- From: PLUG-talk On Behalf Of Keith Lofstrom Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 12:29 AM To: plug-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org Subject: [PLUG-TALK] Help with either 3D printing, or aluminum casting I repair stuff WAY past obsolescence. Currently working on an old blender, in particular the fragile "jar nut" that holds the blade spinner + gasket, and tightens onto a 3 inch Mason thread jar. I have one remaining good jar nut, and four used ones, with hairline cracks -- typical for 40-year-old plastic in a high-vibration environment. Pretty soon, I will have zero jar nuts. Amazon, Ebay, Craigslist, Etsy ... no joy for my ancient model. MANY blender jars; I'm not the first to break my nuts :-) The plastic jar nut is mostly hollow, 3.25 inches diameter, 1 inch tall, averaging 0.2 inch thick (designed with inch units), and weighs 26 grams. I can imagine 3D printing jar nuts (perhaps five, aiming for a 33 year supply) using strong plastic filament. However, creating the CAD file might be complicated. Correct me if I'm wrong ... there are many 3D printer owners nearby, some with spouses expecting a return on investment. I would be glad to provide an excuse for a well equipped geek (and perhaps repair electronics gizzies for geek and spouse). ---- An alternative might be using two or three of the (hairline) cracked nuts to shape molds, then cast jar nuts in aluminum. Those jar nuts would last forever. Local commercial foundries charge $$$$ to make MANY cast parts, and may charge $$$$-$20 to make five. There might be an eBay market for more jar nuts, if somebody else wants to be in the mail order retail business - not me. OTOH, there may be hobbyists (or trade school students) who make small aluminum castings, and also have spouses expecting ROI. The goal here isn't so much saving money on a new blender, as collaborating with another geek in a fun hack. Keith L. P.S. Why a 33 year supply? I want this kludge to endure until the 200th anniversary of the Mason jar. I will be 106yo, like my father-in-law is. My M.D. wife's medical skills are one reason for F.I.L.'s 106 (107 in June). -- Keith Lofstrom keithl at keithl.com _______________________________________________ PLUG: https://pdxlinux.org PLUG-talk mailing list PLUG-talk at lists.pdxlinux.org https://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug-talk