[PLUG] The lion in Salem

[Derek Loree]

On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 12:03, Jeff Schwaber wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 23:58, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 10:43:45AM -0700, Cliff Wells wrote:
> > > Speaking of EULAs, has anyone considered demanding that state employees
> > > who deal with public records (which, despite their name, may be
> > > confidential) *not* click "I agree" on these EULAs?
> > 
> > I thought giving out that kind of permission even without telling them
> > not to is a terminable offense with the state.
> 
> You know, there's an interesting question embedded in here.
> 
> Think about the FrontPage license, which says that you cannot use
> FrontPage to create a site which says bad things about Microsoft. That's
> a click through license. By clicking it, you agree not to do such a
> thing.
> 
> What if I get hired by a company to make a webpage for them, using
> FrontPage? And it's a lenient company and they don't mind me using their
> systems for my personal use in my off time, and I create, using
> FrontPage, a web page saying Microsoft sucks.
> 
> They haven't violated the agreement, because they didn't tell me to do
> so, and I haven't violated the agreement, because I didn't click it so I
> didn't agree to it.

But, if you don't agree with the license agreement, you can't use the
software!  That is what the EULA usually says.
> 
> The only realistic view of this I can take is that it's illegal for me
> to use software installed on my machine by someone else, because its use
> is subject to its license agreement, i.e. I can only use it if I agree
> to the license, and unless I install it, or at least click through it, I
> am not subject to the license.

Isn't it more like a book with strings attached?  Your employer is
lending you the software, but you must agree to the same EULA that the
installer agreed to.  And, like the installer, you have no idea what the
EULA actually says.

When I started my IT career, I would read each EULA all of the way
through, so I could paraphrase for my customers.  It took huge amounts
of time, I very rarely understood ALL of it, and the customer hardly
ever cared.  Now I just skim them to check for phrases like "you cannot
use this software to create a site that says bad things about
Microsoft".  The customer really needs to know this kind of thing.

It _really_ felt good the first time I professionally handed off a
debian box.  "Here, take it, it is all yours, no rental agreement, no
borrowed binaries, copy it as much as you want and the source can be
yours if you want it."
> 
> IT installs, ghost installs, even a computer company pre-installing
> software could well be illegal.

The EULA's phrase it so that compliance is the users responsibility.  In
the case of you and your company, I would bet that M$ would consider the
entire company to be the user.

Derek Loree